154. Getting in the Driver's Seat of Your Own Career with Randi Roberts

💭 Are you ready to get into the driver’s seat of pursuing a fulfilling career?

Randi Roberts is the founder of Fulfilling Career Happy Life where she helps people find a career that not only pays the bills but fills your soul with joy. Randi, through her transition from the pharmaceutical industry to coaching, embodies the courage and insight needed to make such life-altering decisions.

In this episode, Randi and Mick explore the psychological journey of career transitions.  They discuss the common phenomenon of ‘heavy leg syndrome’, highlighting the importance of having someone who can provide clear, unbiased feedback and how coaching can propel you through.

Download this episode to hear practical strategies so you can take the driver’s seat of your own career toward a life of meaning, purpose and fulfillment. 

Time Codes:
00:00 Introduction
03:50 Navigating Career Transitions with a Coach
9:32 Navigating Career Transitions with Coaching
19:04 Navigating Goals and Purpose in Career
31:22 Fostering Gratitude and Addressing Toxicity
40:54 Finding Fulfillment in Career and Life

🌐 Connect with Randi:
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randiroberts/
• Get your Career Satisfaction Assessment: https://www.randirobertscoaching.com/
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@fulfillingcareerhappylife

Book Mentioned:
The Alchemist Book by Paulo Coelho

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:26

Hey everyone and welcome back to the Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Randi Roberts. Randi is the President of Randi Roberts Coaching and she's the founder of an organization or a community called Fulfilling Career Happy Life, and that's what we're going to focus on today Is it possible to have a fulfilling career and is it possible that that is the key to having a happy life? And gonna unpack a little bit some of the traps that maybe some of us find ourselves falling into, and Randi will be giving us some tips on what to do when we find ourselves in those situations. So it's gonna be a lot about you today.

Mick Spiers: 1:05

Less about leadership of teams although you may find yourself in situations where you've got team members that find themselves falling out of love of their jobs, or whatever the case may be but it's gonna be more about you today. More about you, more about your career, about career choices, about career planning and thinking about some of those pivot points that happen in your life as you go through. So, without any further ado, Randi, please, I'd love it if you would say hello to our audience, and I'm really curious, because your background was in pharmacy, I believe, and was not in this area? How did you stumble into this mission, I'm gonna say, of helping people find fulfilling careers and happy lives?

Randi Roberts: 1:47

Yeah well, Mick, thanks so much for having me with you today.

Randi Roberts: 1:50

I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Randi Roberts: 1:52

You're right, my first career was in pharmaceutical and I was on the commercial side, started as a sales rep and worked my way up over 30 years to running a billion dollar business in the US very corporate, focused, very traditional, wonderful, enjoyable, loved almost every day of it and had some really pivotal moments in my career, in particular when I was striving to get to that next big level or when I took on a big new level of responsibility.

Randi Roberts: 2:20

I was really fortunate to have coaches by my side and I know how important that was in terms of me making the transformations that I needed to make, having the sounding board and support that I needed at those moments and I recognized that I had a natural talent for that, I had a love for that and I knew that I wanted my next career to be as an executive coach. So when the day came that I knew it was time to get out of corporate, it was a natural for me to move into this and it fits so well what I want from my life at this phase and I'm honored to do the work that I do. I'm honored that. The clients that I work with select me to walk that journey with them and I think, as you'll see, I absolutely love my second career every bit as much as I did my first career.

Mick Spiers: 3:09

Well, I'm glad to see that and you are happy. I can see you're happy sitting in front of us and you've had two fulfilling careers, which is wonderful. I don't think that's uncommon either. So, and we might unpack that a little bit as we go along. The first thing I wanna ask you about is you use the word sounding board and you use the word coaching. Now, I'm curious about that part. When people find themselves in these situations that we're gonna unpack today, they will often talk to people, they'll reach out, but they might talk to friends or they might seek some more professional help around coaching. Where do you see the differences there between sounding board versus professional coach? That's gonna help someone to progress through their thought patterns and make a sound decision.

Randi Roberts: 3:50

I think it's an important question, and those of us that are fortunate and maybe strategic because we've created it, have what I call our board of directors, and so there are different people, sort of different seats, at the table providing that guidance and support that we may need. And the reason I think about it that way is everyone has a different role. So if you're fortunate, you have a great boss who's supportive and can be a sounding board, but they have an agenda. They may have an idea of where they want you in their organization and how they want you developing along those lines. It's not purely about you, right? A mentor may even be the same way. A good friend doesn't see you in an unbiased way, and we love that and we need that and we you know that definitely has a place. But the role that a coach can play is to be that unbiased eyes and ears and voice to help you see some of the things you may not be seeing and help you connect the dots in ways that you may not think of and to provide that tough love at times.

Randi Roberts: 4:50

But, for example, when I work with a client, they very often are trying to figure out what may be missing in their career. What may be the next best steps for them? They may be in a situation where they're offered a new job and they have to choose between their current job and a new job. As their coach, I have no vested interest in which choice they make. My focus is helping them make the choice that's right for them. So I have no attachment to a particular outcome. My attachment is helping the person that I'm coaching see it as clearly as they can make the best decision that's most aligned to what they want their future self to have, and sort of see that through. So does that answer your question?

Mick Spiers: 5:32

Yeah, it does. So I'm hearing a lot of independence there and the fact that others you may ask they will have. Generally, if you've asked them, it's a good reason and you probably trust them. So they most likely have your interest at heart, but they might also have personal interests of oh, I really don't want to lose that person or, yeah, their view maybe at least a little bit skewed, whereas yeah, and let me say one thing about that that doesn't mean it's bad for you. No, no, it's just another perspective.

Randi Roberts: 6:00

But it's not pure.

Mick Spiers: 6:01

It's not as pure as someone that's got no horse in the race is the way I'd put it. Yeah, all right. And then I'm hearing a lot about awareness, and that was resonating with me, Randi, and I'm thinking about someone going through one of these career transition points and I'll play out a scenario to you and I'd love to check it with you. They start telling themselves stories in their head about themselves and about their career and about their career choices, and that story starts to gain momentum and there's that element of, I don't know, self-fulfilling confirmation bias. They start convincing themselves of something, but are they really stopping and reflecting and re-looking and going? Well, is there another way of looking at that very same problem, in a different way? So I'm hearing an awareness and I'm hearing a perspective and I'm hearing a deeper look. How does that sit with you?

Randi Roberts: 6:51

I love the way you phrased all of that, because you started with something happens and the story that we tell ourselves. That's exactly what happens. If you don't have that sounding board, if you're not verbalizing it, if you're not saying what you're thinking out loud, we can get caught up in our own heads, create that story and then you're exactly right. We look for evidence to back that story up and it becomes truth. It may be lying to us. One of the ways that I try and deal with that and it's with the help of my own coach is what she has said is stay focused on the data versus the drama. The drama is the story we tell ourselves. The data is what are the facts, what's the situation we're actually dealing with, what has happened versus what's the story we're telling ourselves about what has happened and what are the options that are available to us.

Randi Roberts: 7:42

It really works for me because I have a business background. I went to business school. I tend to view everything through a business lens. Focusing on the data and something that can be a bit more objective and that I can quantify tends to get me back into my comfort zone and allows me to think a little bit more clearly, even in my own experience. I mean, I mentioned I have my own coach.

Randi Roberts: 8:04

I don't try and struggle with these things on my own. I know I need to talk it through. I need to hear myself say it. I need someone else to hear me say it. I need another perspective, because another question you asked, which is really wise, which is wait a minute, is there another way we could look at that? Sometimes, as a coach, that's a question that I asked. Okay, that may be true. What's another thing that may be true? What's another thing that another way that we could be looking at that? Sometimes, just opening our eyes to the perspective another can bring can really clear things up and help us see the next step which leads to the next step which gets us where we want to go.

Mick Spiers: 8:41

If you don't mind, I'm going to challenge you a little bit on this and let's see where this goes. I think this will double down on where the coach can bring value. But use the word data. I'm going to say this took me a long time to realise. By the way, Randi, this was not a yesterday. It wasn't something I was born with to think this, it was something that crept up on me.

Mick Spiers: 9:01

When I make decisions, I know that I make quite emotional decisions and I will rationalise it with data, not the other way around. It can be any decision about a career change Absolutely Could be. Should I buy a car or should I not buy a car, or what kind of car should I buy? I will use data to convince my brain that the decision that I really wanted to make is the right one. I'll selectively use the data that supports my hypothesis and I will diminish the data that tells me something else. I do like your focus on data, but can't data just trick our mind anyway? Or our mind is so powerful that just manipulates what's in front of us anyway?

Randi Roberts: 9:41

I think it's a brilliant point and you're right.

Randi Roberts: 9:43

We're so good at convincing ourselves that we're right because there's comfort in that and it builds confidence that we need to be careful, and I think that's another reason why getting a partner in this thinking is an important step.

Randi Roberts: 9:55

And look, I am at risk of sounding like I'm a cheerleader for coaching, and I guess maybe I am, but what I want to say is I don't profess the value of coaching because I'm a coach. The other way around I'm a coach because I know how powerful it is and I know how much I believe in it. There are other ways to get that voice in, but what I would really encourage is, if you are in a situation where either you're challenging the data or you're concerned that you're convincing yourself and building that powerful story, bring in a partner to help and just make sure that you're not missing anything, that there aren't any blind spots here, and what you may find is the other person says yeah, you know what. I think you're thinking about this exactly right. The value of that is you have greater confidence, you can move forward in a more comfortable and confident way, or they may bring up a perspective that either helps you to see it a different way brings in something that you hadn't even considered.

Mick Spiers: 10:53

Either way, you're going to end up in a stronger stand First of all, I think it's completely fine to be a cheerleader of coaching, because it helps people to understand the difference between just going and asking for someone for their advice, their counsel, versus someone that's going to be independent and professional, like you said, and the thing I'm going to share there.

Mick Spiers: 11:11

Come back to the data again. If you're going and asking your friends for help and I'm not saying not to do that, by the way go ahead, get as many perspectives and viewpoints that you have, but a friend may just tell you what you want to hear. They may just say, because they don't want to hurt you, they want to be supportive, and being supportive might be to give you a good damn listening to, but to just reflect back to you yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're on a good thing here, et cetera. Whereas you used the word before that I want to unpack, which is the word tough love, and tough love might be to get someone to say, well, actually, is that really true and is there another way of looking at this and what's really the challenge for you here, et cetera, et cetera. So tell me what tough love looks like in that relationship.

Randi Roberts: 11:52

I think tough love is, there are times. Honestly, it requires a gut check on my part and it requires me to take a step back and challenge my own coaching stand, because I do develop relationships with my clients and I believe in them, especially the way I run my business. Some of that is established up front. If we don't have that connection, if we don't have that natural chemistry, I won't invite them to become a client and I wouldn't recommend they choose me as their coach. So that's there anyway, and I have to make sure that I am staying pure, if you will, and really staying clear on what is my client's objective and what are the things that can best set them up to accomplish that objective.

Randi Roberts: 12:32

So it's almost a thinking and I love thinking about it this way as okay, mick, you have a certain goal Three years from now. You want to be at this point in your life. What does future Mick? What does three years from now Mick need you to be doing today so that you can get there? And so I know I need to stay true to that and I need to have the courage to tell my clients what they may need to hear, what they may not be thinking of themselves. It doesn't happen very often, but sometimes it's something that could risk hurting them if I'm not really careful in how I deliver it. So there's two different things from my coaching perspective. There's what's the message they most need to hear, and then there's how do I deliver it with both the tough and the love?

Mick Spiers: 13:15

So what I'm hearing there is a lot of intentionality in the way that you're going about your coaching and hearing. The question that's popping into my head is what is going to serve them best at this moment. Is it a supportive, caring, nurturing approach, or is it going to be? No, it's going to be a challenging question right now. It's going to be a challenging question to get them to go a bit deeper. So, yeah, I love that, all right. So I want to get into the meat of it now, and there's going to be people that are listening into this and they're going to fit into one of two camps. I'm going to go out on a limb here. One camp would be at some point in their career. They've been at one of these career pivot points, so they can probably stop and reflect and think about the last time this happened. Or there might be some people listening to this show right now, Randi, that are doing that. Right now. They're in the middle of one of these career defining moments. I'll call it at this touch One of the things that you've spoken about.

Mick Spiers: 14:05

I want to use this as maybe as our launch pad into it. You speak about a situation where someone may have, at one point really loved their job, but they've progressively, over time, find that the things that used to give them joint fulfillment all of a sudden they don't love anymore. And it could be anywhere on a spectrum to yeah, it's just not the same anymore, all the way through to what I call heavy leg syndrome. Heavy leg syndrome is it's a bit of a metaphor, but imagine that you turn up to the office and there's a flight of stairs to climb up to the office and all of a sudden your legs get heavy because you don't want to be there. Tell us more about how we get ourselves in these situations where something that once we loved we took the job for a reason we convinced ourselves this was the job that we wanted. Now, all of a sudden, we've got heavy leg syndrome. How does that happen, Randi?

Randi Roberts: 14:51

Well, I think in general it happens over time. Because we may change over time. The situation may change or we may change, and what I mean by that is like a lot of times where I'll start with clients is doing a values assessment to look at what's most important to them in their lives and how good a job are they doing at really prioritizing the things they tell themselves are most important in their lives. So that can be sort of an objective look on things. But the point, I guess, is that while our core values may not change, we do change over time. It may be 10 years since someone really took a fresh look at their career. Some of the goals that we're working towards are very long term, so they may have their head down, working hard, delivering great work, and all of a sudden they pick their head up and think either I'm there, I've achieved the goal and it's not quite what I thought it would be, or am I still working toward the right goal. So that's one big situation. Another thing that can happen for things to change is maybe, if you're someone that needs a lot of challenge I was always this way in my career and I still am I've defined the challenge in different ways. I always wanted to have more to do than I could do. I always wanted to be climbing the big mountain and have others climbing it with me. If I were in a situation where I wasn't challenged and I was feeling bored, bad things would happen. I was no longer efficient, I was not focused on the right things. I wasn't feeling good about ways that I was adding value. So the answer to your question may look different for different people.

Randi Roberts: 16:22

I think the way to figure it out is almost always to look within, because I think one of the really important things I get this question a lot of wait a minute. I'm having that heavy leg syndrome, or what I call pushing the snooze button Rather than jumping out of bed before the alarm. All of a sudden you start hitting the snooze button. That's one of the reasons that I changed careers. If you're having that experience, do I need to change jobs or can I do something right where I am? And I think it's a critical question and you have to get to the bottom of that by looking within, because if you're not clear that you're fixing the right problem, you may take the problem with you. So doing that in our work is really valuable.

Randi Roberts: 17:05

And sometimes I get the question of, okay, if I've had this major event or I'm faced with a major choice, that is that the time for me to seek coaching? And I would say yes, but if you're having the question, is it time for me to seek coaching? Almost all coaches that I know I certainly do in my own business is offer a complimentary session where you can talk about what coaching isn't, you can see if there's a fit between you and the coach and you can talk about your particular situation and see if the work you could do together would help you get in the right direction. So there's like no risk associated. If you're having the thought, seek that out. And again, this isn't self-serving so that you call me although someone could, it's more a matter of if I hold back and don't talk about how important coaching could be at that moment, I'm not helping people.

Mick Spiers: 17:54

So I'm hearing two really distinct things here, Randi, and I want to unpack them one at a time. I'll tell you what they both are, and I feel like they're both deep topics, so I think that's going to be the rest of the interview. I've got to say that the first one was goal orientation and where that can be maybe good and bad. And then the second one is about am I addressing the real problem? All right, so that's the two things I want to unpack. Let's go one at a time, though you mentioned and I've heard this before as well, you know someone might be attaching their entire identity around a certain goal and all of a sudden, that goal has either been achieved so what now? Or it looks like that goal is not achievable now then, compared to when you started. Or maybe the goal that you convinced yourself early days was really important to you somehow is not as important to you anymore. So I want to know your thoughts around the positives and negatives of almost attaching our identity to our goal or our satisfaction towards goal orientation.

Randi Roberts: 18:54

Yeah, boy, is this a great question because this goes back to so? My answer is it depends, and it depends on how motivated is the individual by a goal. I have always been a person who needed a big goal and so in corporate that was easier to set out that goal and sort of see how to get there. Now that I'm an entrepreneur and I run my own business, what I know? Because I need a goal, I have to set them for myself because that's what motivates me.

Randi Roberts: 19:21

And earlier in my career, when I had set out that big goal, I wanted to be a vice president at a pharmaceutical company and I wanted to head up a big sales and marketing team and focus on the commercial business and that's what I wanted to do and I'm very proud that I achieved it. And when I achieved it, I no longer had the goal to work towards and it took me a while to realize how much I was missing that and how much I needed that. So that's something that I know about myself and I really encourage people to see. You know you mentioned that there's a positive and a negative to goal orientation. Absolutely the key is to know to what level do you need that and set yourself up to get exactly that level of it.

Mick Spiers: 20:02

Yeah, I think that's good, because it is certainly positive and negative for sure, and if it's a motivator, if it's something that's going to get you to stop hitting this news button to use your metaphor and get you jumping out of bed and going for it, I think that's great. And then what I'm hearing is that where some of the challenge can be is you mentioned about one of your goals was to be a VP in your industry, etc. Etc. When you achieve the goal, it may not feel as good as what you thought it was going to feel Absolutely.

Randi Roberts: 20:29

I've had a lot of clients find that, especially because some of these goals are very long term. You work towards them for years and then you get there. Either the situation has changed potentially you have changed and what's important to you in your life has changed, or how do you really know that it's something you want? Until you try that you know until you put those clothes on, how do you know if they fit? So it could be a couple of different situations. Now, lucky people land in that position and they feel like they're in kindergarten. They're having so much fun every day and that's wonderful. But not everyone is that lucky. And then you may have invested a long time in getting there and it takes courage to look at. Wait a minute, what do I do? This might not be the dream that I thought it was.

Mick Spiers: 21:14

Yeah, what I'm curious to know is what role do you think purpose and meaning plays around that goal? Is that the key? Is that the key that it's not really the goal attainment itself, it's deriving purpose and meaning of what we do.

Randi Roberts: 21:27

I think for a lot of people, that's absolutely at the heart of it. I mean, I can tell you for my own, my first career how did I know, like all of a sudden, I was hitting the snooze button? How did I get to the bottom of what was going on there and how was I going to fix it? I know that I have always been a person who needed to do some good while I was doing well. I need both. I supported my family. My husband stayed home with our daughter and I was really blessed about that, but I supported our family and I took that very seriously. I needed to do well, but I also knew that I needed to do some good. My work needed to make a difference, and it's one of the reasons that I love pharmaceuticals so much, because the industry takes a lot of hits and some of them are deserved, but the end result of what that industry does makes people healthier, makes them live longer, makes them have better outcomes Like what's better than that?

Randi Roberts: 22:17

The higher up I got in a big hierarchical organization, the farther I felt from the good we did for patients. Now I was still in touch with the good we did for shareholders and the good I did for my team, but it was different and it took a lot of soul searching for me to realize that was missing for me. So that was one of the factors that led me to change careers, start my own business, go in a different direction, but do that with very, very specific intent. To create that meaning for myself, to know what did doing good look like at this new phase of my career, in my life, and because I am so goal oriented, how was I going to set up those goals and that motivation for myself so that I can have as fulfilling a second career as I had for so long during my first career?

Mick Spiers: 23:06

Let me share what's bouncing around my head, from what you're sharing, Randi, and I'd love to hear your reflection on this. So what I'm hearing is the positive of goals is that it's a great motivator For someone that is. It might be competitive juices or pride, whatever it is. Sometimes that goal can just get you out of bed and stop hitting the snooze button.

Mick Spiers: 23:25

Then what I'm hearing, listening to you, it's important to then ask yourself the question why is that goal important to you? What is it about that goal that is important to you? What positive impact will come if I'm able to attain that goal, like getting to the substance of why, and that why will be the powerful motivator and driver on the days where the goal starts getting questionable. Or it could be telling you something about yourself that might help you set your next goal or determine your next career, because you've taken that time. So for you, I'm hearing the words do good. I'm hearing the words meaningful, make a difference. So for you, the goal was X, but the important thing about the goal was because it helped you to make a difference. How does that sit with you?

Randi Roberts: 24:13

I think what you're saying is really wise. It's definitely true for me and I have seen it true for many of the clients and leadership teams that I've worked with, and that's again where it goes to knowing yourself and a lot of us. If you work for a corporation, especially, you may go through different assessments here. You may do the Hogan assessment, the disc assessment, myers-briggs, whatever those things are, and they tell you a lot about different things. I always looked at it as a toolkit. You take a little something from each and you put it together in a way that means something to you.

Randi Roberts: 24:45

But the thing not to lose sight of is we change over our lives. When you're early in your career, you may be striving towards a certain thing. You may move into a phase where you have a young family at home and your priorities shift a little bit. Then you move into a phase where, like I am now my daughter's grown and gone. I absolutely love having an empty nest. I can put my efforts in different places than I could when she was young and she was at home, and so it's important to not lose sight of that and it's easy to say that.

Randi Roberts: 25:16

It's easy to see those milestones when it comes to having a family, but I don't mean to discount that people who don't have children, don't have families, go through similar things and maybe the milestones are less tangible.

Randi Roberts: 25:27

So it may be even more important to look for them and take a look at what's important to you at this point in your life and are you really working towards the things that will light you up, that will get you running up the stairs instead of slogging up the stairs? Because I do believe I mean, that's my passion is I want people to love their work while they're achieving their goals, and I think it's possible. Now, sometimes reality hits Like you may have a great job. You may be hitting this news button, whatever analogy you want to use but you need a job and it's a great job. The job market may not be there, other opportunities may not be there, like that's real and that may be your priority, but there may be ways to build the things that can give you satisfaction into other aspects of your life, but it starts with knowing what those things are.

Mick Spiers: 26:14

Yeah, there's a lot of balance in what you're saying there, Randi, and I really like it that we do change over time, understanding what is important to us, but also situational, that sometimes there is a job that we're doing that's just for this moment in time and it may not be the long term one, but it's important right now, for whatever reason.

Mick Spiers: 26:31

That's really good. So I think we've unpacked quite a bit there. I want to now get to the second half, which was are we addressing the right problem? Right, and we do see people I think if you reflect now, you might be this person or you might know someone that's like this that seems to be constantly job changing and job hopping and they go from one job to the next and there's a lot of excitement on the new role, like they'll tell you over dinner and go oh, I've got this new job, I'm so happy and love it, all this stuff, and two years later you're talking to the same person and then they change to another job and the same cycle happens again. Tell us about whether we're addressing the right problem or not.

Randi Roberts: 27:09

I think that's very true and I think a lot of us to your point. Either you may be that person or you certainly know someone who is that person, and there are some advantages to changing jobs. So it's not all bad, but it's a matter of are you getting what you need and are you changing for the right reasons? So one of the things that I've done is I've had so many clients come to me or people that I see at speaking events and things talk to me about something's not right, but I don't know what it is Like. I'm not as excited as I used to be. I don't know what it is that's going on, and so there's a tool that I've developed it's available for free on my website if people want it which is randirobertscoaching. com, and it's called a career satisfaction assessment and it's something they can walk themselves through. There's simple instructions, or on my YouTube channel, there's actually a workshop. I can take them through it, but it really breaks down what may be at the root of that to eight different pillars, which there's.

Randi Roberts: 28:03

No, this is not going to pass.

Randi Roberts: 28:05

A peer review be published in the Harvard Business Review, and I'm the first one to admit that, but it's based on a lot of anecdotal data that I've seen and themes that I've pulled out of what may be at the start of it, and it may help you figure out what might be true for you. And so some of those pillars are some of the things that we've talked about making a difference balance, growth, challenge but there are others too, and it just gives you an opportunity to take a step back and take a bit of an objective look at what might be the place for you to start and see what's missing. On the flip side, you may find that you score really high on some of these things, that some of these things in your current situation are really working for you. But there may be one thing you may have a really challenging boss, but everything else is working for you, and so that may help you hone down on what the situation may be and give you an idea of where you might be able to start to fix it.

Mick Spiers: 28:59

Yeah, really good. So asking yourself those hard questions about what am I really looking for in this job and in this career and giving yourself a clue as to how you might find it and you might find it exactly where you are by looking in a different way or addressing your current job in a different way, or it might help you to make the right decision when you go looking for that career change. If you are going to do it Career or job change right.

Randi Roberts: 29:24

Yeah, and sometimes that change can be within your own company. You know it's interesting because some clients come to me individually and hire me and some companies hire me to coach their people and when I'm first meeting people within the company, they sort of have an eye up. Wait a minute, am I going to hire you and you're going to coach my people to leave? And that's absolutely not the case. It's a matter of knowing what's the issue, how are we going to fix it? And if you can get that fulfillment right where you are in your own company, where you may be feeling loyal and you've built up equity and all those things, that's amazing. And by knowing what you're looking for and advocating for yourself, you may very well make that happen.

Mick Spiers: 30:03

Yeah, I think that's a powerful one for a lot of people to look at it. If we look carefully and we've got to be careful with the stories we tell ourselves in the head about our current job like it's very easy to get into a spiral of I hate my job because of XYZ and not to stop and think about I love my job because of ABC. And if I could do more of ABC and less of XYZ, or even just address the way that I do my job in a way that maximizes the positive and gets rid of some of those negative thoughts in our head, we will enjoy our job more. We will fall back in love with our current job. How does that sit with you, Randi?

Randi Roberts: 30:38

I love what you're saying and I think some of it is focused, and I don't mean that we should ignore situations. If you've got a toxic situation at work or something that's just genuinely bad for you, I'm not suggesting that someone should just power through that, but a lot of times we will see what we are looking for. So if we're steeped in the things we hate, we will see them. But if we are looking for the things that are working, we will see them, and it's one of the reasons that I start every day with a gratitude practice. I do it before I get out of bed in the morning and I think about what am I grateful for right now? And it has helped me through the hardest times of my life. It truly has, and it takes three minutes. It doesn't even take that long. Now. That's a commitment I make to myself.

Randi Roberts: 31:22

Other people have different ways of. I consider it almost self-care, because before my feet hit the floor in the morning, it starts me off looking for the things that I want to see, looking for the things that are going to nourish me and that are going to set me up for having the positive experience that I want to have. So you know if that appeals to somebody who's listening, I say try it, no harm done. You're investing two minutes of your morning. For some people that's journaling, it's. You know, play with what works for you. But I am telling you it has helped my perspective. It has made me happier, it has made it easier for me to handle some really tough times. So I share that with you for what it's worth.

Mick Spiers: 32:00

I think it's a great suggestion. We've spoken about the power of gratitude on the show before and it's absolutely proven. Martin Seligman and his gratitude study and how it impacts the way that we think about ourselves, the way we think about the world around us, the way that we think about value and values. Gratitude practices a great one to get us to stop and think and reflect. What is it that I'm grateful for right now? Yes, you can deal with the things that you're not happy with, but it's a great idea to stop and take some time to think about what are the things that you do love about your job? I do. What are you grateful about with the world around you?

Mick Spiers: 32:35

I think it's a very powerful message and it's a good one. It's a good call to action for people to think about. Whether it once again, like with what Randi said, whether it's journaling or any other outlet, some kind of gratitude practice in your day will help you to get through to what's important to you. What's important to you and that's the part of this question Am I addressing the right problem Is taking the time to understand what's important to you and why that's important to you. How does that sit with you, Randi?

Randi Roberts: 33:01

It sits beautifully. I believe so much in what you're saying and I love the way that you're rephrasing it. It's nice to hear it. Just as I talked about the power of speaking what's on our mind and hearing it and having other people pressure-tested, it's really nice to hear it through your lens and through your wisdom.

Mick Spiers: 33:17

Now we also spoke about toxic situations and we've all heard the situation, which is, I'm going to say, 80, 90% true there's always exceptions that people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses, they leave horrible bosses sometimes, etc. Unfortunately, that's true. The stats don't help us here. There's some pretty damning situations out there. If someone does this exercise, Randi, and they're thinking about what is it about their job that lights them up and all this kind of stuff, and they do find positive answers and go well, the job that I'm in right now should be ticking all the boxes except for the toxicity, whether it's coworkers, their direct boss or their bosses, bosses, bosses, boss. Something about the environment is not sitting well with them. What advice do you have for someone that should be sitting in, let's say, a good groove in terms of an ideal job, but they're finding the environment is not matching their values and beliefs?

Randi Roberts: 34:09

Yeah, I think it's an important question and I think the first thing that I would say is to this is really hard, and one of the reasons that it's so hard is because it feels so unfair. You're working hard, you're doing all the right things and there's this situation that's seemingly out of your control. That's just sort of raining on your parade in a way that can really be impacting your life. So I really want to acknowledge that. I think what you do about it depends on the situation. Changing your boss is a hard thing to do, unless that's the one thing that you can't necessarily change about the situation, and there are times when the right thing to do is leave. But the things that I would say is look around your boss too. Take a look at the values of the company, not just what senior management says, but what do they do? Are you still aligned to those things? Do those things still resonate for you?

Randi Roberts: 35:02

If the answer to that is yes, oftentimes this toxic, horrible boss may be the outlier. They may be the thing that's not aligned and they may not be lasting in that role. So you need to look at the situation before you run away from it and take a look at how do things usually go in your company. Does someone like that stay and get rewarded? Do people get moved into other jobs in a year or two? So if you can tough it out, it may change.

Randi Roberts: 35:29

So you really need to look at it. And this is another time where it's helpful to have some help. That may be a mentor, a trusted colleague that knows your company dynamics, so you can talk that through and see if you're seeing it realistically. And then you have to think even in a situation where, okay, this person's likely to be in another place in a year or two, you need to think about can you stick that out? What is it costing you? Are there ways you can take care of yourself and wait that out? Or is it so costly that you really need to make a change? So you need to ask yourself those tough questions and take care of yourself.

Mick Spiers: 36:05

I think there's a key point there, which is about culture versus the individual. So the behaviors that you're seeing, are they the pervasive behaviors throughout the entire organization? The people that are getting celebrated and rewarded have got those behaviors. The people that are getting tolerated have got those behaviors, all of those things. Because if that's the case, okay, your short term with your current boss, you'll get another boss later on.

Mick Spiers: 36:29

That's going to be similar, let's say so, having a look at the culture of the organization. Is that culture congruent with your values and beliefs, yes or no? And it's not about and we're not talking about the values that are written on the office plaque. We're talking about the ones that live and breathe and the ones that show up in the way people behave. If those don't sit well with you, yeah, that is the time to look elsewhere. If it's just one individual that you're struggling with, yeah, that's a great suggestion, Randi. You might be able to wait it out. You might be able to tolerate it for a while. You might be able to ask for a transfer to another department. There might be things that you can do if it's just one individual. I think that's some pretty good advice.

Randi Roberts: 37:08

And there may be things you can do to change. You can't change another person, but you can change your approach to that person. You can let go of your attachment to you know, if you're walking out of every meeting, every interaction with them incredibly frustrated, for example, you can change your own expectations. There may be some things you can do to make it easier for you if you decide to stick that situation out. You can't change them but you might be able to change your approach.

Mick Spiers: 37:35

Yeah, I like this. I'm going to add the word response as well, right, so you can change your response, your approach, and you can change your response. So if they're behaving in a way that you think is not great, always remember that that speaks more about them than it does about you. All right, and you can't control them. You can't control them, but you can control how you respond to them. You can. You're the one that can control whether it gets to you or not, or whether you're going to not let it get to you, their behaviors, etc. So you can change your approach and you can change your response. That's really great advice, Randi. All right, I'm going to draw us to a close now and head towards our rapid round. So I'll share what I'm taking away from today's session here, Randi, and that is, if you are in one of these situations where you're falling out of love with your job or you're thinking about a change, etc.

Mick Spiers: 38:21

I think the key takeaway today is to ask yourself whether you're addressing the right problem. And to address the right problem, you need to reflect and get closer to yourself and think about what is it that really inspires me, what is it that motivates me? Why do I do the things that I do, and if you can get in touch with that, with yourself, you can start looking again where you are first, to see if you can still find that love, that juice, that fire, exactly where you are and what you need to do differently to generate those, that same passion that you once had. If you don't find it, at least then you've done the work that, when you start looking at a new career, that you know what you're looking for. And if you don't do that, you're just going to bounce from job to job, going oh, didn't like that one, didn't like that one, didn't like that one.

Mick Spiers: 39:08

But if you're asking yourself the tougher question, what am I really looking for here? What really gets me out of bed without hitting the snooze button? What really gets me fired up, running up the stairs instead of clambering up the stairs or whatever you want to call it right? So, think about it, do the work, stop, reflect and think what is it that you're looking for in the workplace and how you might find it All. Right, Randi, let's go to our rapid round. Are? These are the same four questions that we ask all of our guests. So, first of all, what's the one thing that you know now, Randi Roberts, that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Randi Roberts: 39:40

Nobody cares. And. But what I mean by that is we get in our own way. We stop ourselves from doing things, from taking on opportunities, from saying things and meeting and contributing, because we worry about what somebody else is going to think. Nobody cares as much as we think they care. So take the risk, lean in and you're basically taking the risk to add some value. It's worth it, yeah.

Mick Spiers: 40:04

I love. It All right. That's a really good advice and I think it is something that holds us back Absolutely. What's your favorite book?

Randi Roberts: 40:11

My favorite book. I have so many, but my favorite all-time book is the Alchemist by Paulo Coelho, which I don't know if you've read it, Mick, but it's so beautifully written and it really goes. It's written in very much a fable format, but it really goes to knowing your own meaning and the search that you can go through in your own life, and sometimes you have the answers right there. It's a beautiful book.

Mick Spiers: 40:33

Nice, okay, very good. What's your favorite quote?

Randi Roberts: 40:35

My favorite quote is from Walt Whitman, but I got it through Ted Lasso and it's Be Curious, Not Judgmental.

Mick Spiers: 40:43

Yeah, love it, and I love Ted Lasso as well, so I did not know that came from Walt Whitman. Well, according to Ted Lasso, it did, so I'm trusting him All right, very good, okay, and finally, people are going to be probably out there. There might be people that are going through this exact situation. They've got questions about their career, about the choices they've been making. How do people find you if they'd like to know more?

Randi Roberts: 41:04

So probably the best way to find me is through my website, which is randiiroberts. com, and on my website, not only can you get in touch with me, but you can find that career satisfaction assessment that I mentioned. If you go to the Fulfilling Career, Happy Life section. It's there under Resources. The other way you can find me is through my own podcast or YouTube channel, which is Fulfilling Career, Happy Life.

Mick Spiers: 41:30

Brilliant, Randi. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show. I felt like this was a great conversation for people to hear, to think and reflect and to take that time, because we spend up to one third of our life in the workplace, Randi, so we deserve to find something that does give us fulfillment so that we can then have a happy life. So thank you so much for sharing your wisdom today and thank you for all that you do for all the individuals and groups that you help to find those fulfilling careers and happy lives.

Randi Roberts: 41:59

Thank you for having me, Mick, it's been a real pleasure.