310. Pulse: Empathy as Your Leadership Edge with Melinda McCormack

Disconnection doesn’t usually explode—it leaks in through a thousand tiny moments until voices go quiet and energy fades. We sat down with leadership futurist and change strategist Melinda McCormack to chart a path back: a practical, human way to lead with empathy that drives performance without sacrificing people.

Melinda shares her personal journey through loss alongside high-stakes corporate change, revealing how trauma and bias can make even the strongest leaders feel small and unseen. From those lived lessons comes PULSE, a five-step framework that turns empathy into action: clarify Purpose aligned to values, Unlock your emotional code to shift from reaction to response, Learn tools like vulnerability and humility, Shift with daily habits that stick, and Embrace change by balancing the heart that feels with the mind that leads. We dive into why emotional fitness is a trainable skill, how mirror neurons make culture contagious, and what leaders can do to create psychological safety so teams feel seen, heard, and valued.

Expect clear, usable tactics you can try today. You’ll hear how a single ten-second pause can flip a heated exchange, how to spot slow-burn disengagement before it becomes quiet quitting, and why “listening is the quiet art of influence.” We unpack triggers, cognitive biases, and the subtle ways meetings spiral into aggression and defensiveness—and we show how to bring them back to focus, trust, and useful outcomes. If you’ve ever wondered how to make empathy a competitive edge, this conversation gives you the map and the mindset to start.

🌐 Connect with Melinda:
• Website: https://cms.melindamccormack.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mymccormack/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mymccormack/

📚 You can purchase Melinda's book on Amazon:
• PULSE Empathy is Your Edge: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G21HPPJX/

Transcript

Mick Spiers: 0:00

CHave you ever noticed someone on your team slowly withdraw, they become quieter, less engaged or less themselves. Have you ever felt disconnected at work yourself, even though you were still showing up every day and getting things done? And have you ever wondered what responsibility leaders have when people feel unseen, unheard or unsafe. Today's episode is about disconnection and how empathy, when practiced deliberately, becomes a powerful leadership advantage. I'm joined by Melinda McCormack. Melinda shares openly her own personal experience with loss, trauma and disconnection, and how she converted that into a model that we can all use. This is a deeply human episode about how leaders can reconnect themselves and others in times of change. Hey everyone and welcome back to The Leadership Project. I'm greatly honored today to be joined by Melinda McCormack. Melinda is a leadership futurist and a change strategist and the founder of an organization called impact with empathy, but key for our conversation today, she's the author of a new book called Pulse, where she calls out empathy is your edge, and gives a five step framework on how you can use this in your leadership. So I want to dig right into this. This sounds very powerful for all of us. Melinda, what I'd love to do now is get you to introduce yourself to the audience, give a little flavor of your very successful background and what led you to do the work you do around empathy and to write this book?

Melinda McCormack: 1:52

Thanks Mick for having me on the show today. Yeah, wow. Let's start with Yeah, my background for 20 years has been in corporate, major corporates here in Australia, and I think I've done about just about everything in an organization you know, considered your C suite executive across, you know, major change. I've worked across all business functions, finance, HR, operations, technology. My main focus over the last few years has been technology, and so I've seen a lot of change. And as well, I've suffered my own personal, personal loss, which then again, added to what has now become pulse. So I guess professionally, I had been using a certain roadmap, but when I suffered the loss, and it was my son actually on his 21st birthday. So he lost his father when he was 10, and on his 21st birthday, he said to me, Mom, I'm not that statistic. Because of you. And for me, that was the biggest. Biggest thing was I realized, you know, how high mental health, especially a young boy growing up without his father. And I am a Canadian, actually, so I immigrated or an Australian. Now, well, actually, I'm a dual citizen, but yeah, and so I was here on my own too, with no family. So yeah, we navigated through that whilst I was navigating professional change as well. So for example, one of the big projects that I was working on was bringing Apple Pay into Australia, which was huge at the time, and then a major transformation program where we basically unbundled the whole organization across about 20, 20,000 people. And that's where I guess pulse really took form. And I had been for, oh so for five years into my grief, I was really disconnected. My main focus was really on my son and making sure he was going to be okay and his purpose. I realized, geez, I need to have my purpose as well. And then that's what so I started journaling. And so basically the book is seven years of journals, a lot of anecdotes from other wonderful thought, thought leaders out there that really helped me, and as well, because I was working on this huge transformation program called. New ways of working. I was leading the change component of it all. I had to change as well being in this new organization. So that gave me, as well, a lot of the thinking and as well the, you know, the actionable things that we need to do every day, which is what pulse is all about. So it's really about how you reconnect, which I was lost in, that path for a long time, where I was disconnected, and then into where you actually start to reset and then you renew. And so I hope that's what leaders will get out of it.

Mick Spiers: 5:51

All right, thank you. Thank you, Melinda. Well, first of all, I'm very sorry to hear of your loss to traumatic events. There one thing that's screaming in my mind there is that you're in your day job, you're helping people deal with change and and meal meanwhile, you're going through one of the biggest changes that you could ever imagine yourself, and what that would feel like, that you're facing outward, and I'm trying to project what this could feel like, but, But you're facing outward, trying to show a face of this is how you manage change, and meanwhile, behind the scenes, you're going through an even bigger change than what you're dealing with in in corporate world. If you don't mind me asking, I don't want to open up, you know, the past and take you to a dark place. But how did that feel like to to be trying to put on a brave face to people, but meanwhile, you're you're hurting inside yourself?

Melinda McCormack: 6:48

Yeah, I became very small. I lost my voice, and most importantly, I lost the value to see that value in myself. And it was interesting, because at work, I was your typical corporate High Flyer. I have to say, you know, someone would ask me to do something. I'd go, Okay, how high would, you know? How high do you want me to jump? Like I got things done, I executed, but without really understanding what that really meant for for people. I mean, I get changed through, you know, I did think about how that impacted them, but from a work point of view, it's actually it's impacting you emotionally. And it was when I was going through my own change. I was finally, finally able to understand and appreciate the change for people professionally. And that's how I know whether it's personal loss, trauma, losing a job, everybody goes through those same types of emotions. And then that's when I realized, yeah, that pulse, that this framework can work. So I'm kind of a living example of it. I've already helped other people at the time without naming it, but even how I approached my change programs,

Mick Spiers: 8:21

Yeah, really, really interesting, Melinda, so you're you're experiencing that deep change and trauma yourself at the same time, and you're learning, then you're learning your does this work? What almost, what I'm hearing is okay, it's almost like a trial and error on yourself, going, Okay. What worked for me? How can I package that up in a way that may help others. And when I was listening to your talk, things that were screaming in my head were that trauma doesn't discriminate. It doesn't discriminate. It it can happen to anyone at any time, and it can look like different things for different people, like you said, one for one person, it might be loss of a job. The other person, for another person, is the loss of a family member, but what is without doubt is it's going to impact them deeply. You use the word disconnection, and I've seen that in your work as well. You talk about that what can happen at those times is disconnection. Now I've seen you use the words disconnection is everywhere. Can you tell us more about what that means? So it's clear for you. You said you became small and you lost your voice. What else are you seeing in this word disconnection?

Melinda McCormack: 9:33

It is. It's the you know, when people or families are having dinner and everyone is on their phone. So I talk about everybody. We are so connected in this world, you know, through technology, but yet we're disconnected from each other emotionally. And if you start talking emotional right away, everybody, you know, this is all the soft stuff. But guess. What that's good, because you need to be thinking flexibly and being adaptive. So, for example, there's so many people I know. Also, you know, being at work professionally, I had, you know, I was well here in Australia, you know, I'm a female, a female executive. I guess I don't look Australian, and I don't speak Australian. So I had all of these discrimination already, inclusion issues that I had going on in the organizations throughout my whole career, and I just stayed silent. I remember one time I said something and someone to a male leader, and he said to me, stop being so aggressive. But yet, if it was a male leader, it was being assertive. So over the years, I became conditioned as well. So then the loss, then just really, you know, made me feel even more invisible. But we see that all the time, like, as I mentioned, you know, when we're going through, you know, trauma at work, losing your job, people go on, fed up. I don't need to say anything. People don't value me, and that's a real key word, is value. So you could, you know, face someone. It doesn't matter how much you pay somebody, they need to feel valued. And as leaders, that's what we don't do. So there was a lot of coaching, even around, getting people to, you know, speak up, but also speak up so that there wasn't reprisal, right? So now it's so wonderful to see that we're starting to deal with some of the root causes of disconnection, which is lack of trust, which is the big thing, and feeling safe. So there's a lot of people that don't feel that, as I mentioned, whether that's personally, professionally, that if they do speak up, that they won't lose their job, or, you know, they'll have a big X mark, like I I used to have big explorers all over the all over the place, and you just lose that sense of value. And you know, from that, it's just, you see people just going to work, just ticking the boxes. And as I mentioned, you have people who are very despondent, even at home, you know, just scrolling aimlessly. And I guess it was interesting. I was listening to even just your last episode about communication with clarity, and that is really so important. You know, we don't take the time to listen to pause to give people that space to say what they need to say, and really listening. I talk about, actually, one of the articles that I've just recently published that listening is the quiet art of influence. And you know, that was never, you know, we talk about listening, but there's listening, and then there's active listening as well, and and I think all of those you know factors really play a key role into why people are feeling disconnected, because they don't feel safe and they don't feel valued.

Mick Spiers: 13:38

There's a lot to unpack there, Melinda, first of all, we could, we could have an entire episode talking about the implicit bias that you experienced and how that showed up. The second scene that is jumping out to me around this word disconnection. We started the conversation talking about trauma, which we can see that, right? So if someone goes through some kind of trauma in their life, one of the natural things that they can do is disconnect. Now I'm hearing another type of disconnection, which is something that might have built up over time. So let's use the workplace and just say that if someone feels through little micro moments. They might, may not have been one moment, but through a lot of micro moments where they felt invisible, where they didn't feel valued, where they didn't feel trusted to use the words you're using here, didn't feel heard, right? So now on the listening, you said that that listening can be a great way to influence because the person feels hurt, because the person feels hurt. So what I'm hearing now is Okay, so you've got we've got capital T, trauma, disconnection, but now we've got slow burn disconnection, where if a person has felt through little micro moments for two or three years, that they're not. They're not seen, heard and valued or trusted, that they're just gonna, they're just gonna become small, and they're gonna lose, they're gonna lose their voice. They're gonna, they're going to quietly quit. All right, so, so Okay, now we'll come to some of the solution shortly. The question I want to ask now is about awareness, and I've got two questions here, and I think they're both powerful as a leader. What if someone is feeling it themselves? How do they become aware of their own disconnection, where they might have eroded their own connection over time and they've started to lose their voice and to feel small. And secondly, how do they recognize the signs in one of their team members?

Melinda McCormack: 15:47

Yes, so in terms of as a leader, this is where I talk about, where I talk about pulse, and you have to be able to lead yourself and manage yourself before you can lead others. And one of the big things that I realized when I was going through my own, you know, disconnection and seeing others, was that all of our actions and behaviors are derived by your emotions. People don't realize that. That's the number one you might think, Oh no, I've realistically thought about this in my head, logically, but you don't. It's all through your emotions, right? It's the thoughts that you have in your in your brain. So I did a lot of research when I didn't read, when I wrote my book around neuroscience and how that all relays and psychology. So that's right, that's the first thing as a leader, is we talk about a kind of a purpose. So that purpose can be, I love that word, because that's what I use in my book as well. It's made up of micro moments, right? And you got to find those little things. So you take little steps to find what, whatever that outcome is that you want for yourself and for for your team. And then the second key aspect of pulse is really unlocking your emotional code, and that's the awareness piece. So until you're aware of what your emotions are, then you're able to then come from a place of responding rather than reacting. So how often do we you know people like myself, I was in fear, fear mode for most of my for most of the time going through my own loss, I'd say, about 10 years, and it wasn't until I unpacked that emotion and what was how it was impacting me. And people don't do that as well as a leader, because we don't train ourselves to think about our emotions. So this is where I talk about the two sides of our brain, and this is where I talk about balancing the heart that feels with the mind that leads. So we develop our technical mastery, but we don't develop our emotional side of the brain, so it's really building an emotional fitness program. That's what the pulse is based on, and as a leader, until you go through that, this five sort of step framework, and there's no, I do say five steps, but there's no time limit, like it can be, you know, it could be months or whatever, but there's daily habits that you need to do to actually shift with intent. So as I mentioned, the second letter U is about unlocking your emotional code or understanding what that means. That's the awareness piece, which is really important. And then the L is about learning. It's about learning new emotional tools, like myself. I didn't know how to be vulnerable. I was raised to be okay, 1,2,3,4, I don't fail. What do you mean? Failing and admitting that you can fail, you know, so embracing vulnerability and then asking those questions, learning to be more curious. And those are the things that you know I talk about, about learning those types of tools. And then the really, the S piece is That's right, as James clear talks about atomic habits, that's so true. It's, you know, everybody talks about it, but it's doing something every day, which then shifts. That's what shifts you into action, right? And then, and then the E is really about. How we embrace that change with agility. So that's the true balancing the heart and the mind, and that's really about where, where people need to be. And it's a continual renewal. And then when you're able to, I guess, manage your emotions and how you come across with people, then people will be able to role model, because that's that's what we do. We have this. We have this great, I guess, biological in our brain, called mirroring neurons, and that's how you know when you're teaching your child something as a parent, they will role model you, and you don't realize it. So exactly my son would would say things that I would say, you know, I'd ask him a question. I hear him answering questions, so you don't realize that impact that you have on people.

Mick Spiers: 21:03

The Mirroring is really interesting. The Mirroring is really interesting. And it's not just parent child that happens in the workplace as well. There's the people are picking up on this, that there's a we'll come to the pulse framework in a moment. Again, Melinda, because I want that to be a strong, powerful takeaway for people to lean into this and take action, but want to share with you what I took away from what you were just saying, and and that is, and it's a hard truth for some of us to swallow, particularly if we're engineers, or we think that we're logical and rational thinkers, that that we do make emotional decisions, and if anything, we justify them rationally, but at the heart of it's an emotional decision. And the key point I was hearing then is the difference between a emotional reaction and a response and the time. And it doesn't have to be a long period of time. But if we step back from the emotion, instead of being the person that's just going to emotionally react in the second, if we take a step back, we can have a considered response. It's still based on the same emotion, by the way, but we're now having a considered response about what will serve us and serve others well, instead of just the instant reaction. But the thing that caught me was when you said that we practice and train our technical skills, but when was the last time you trained that emotional muscle? And that I'm going to say, 99% of the people in the world do not do that. It's an intentional act to be able to train that emotional muscle, to be able to take the time with some self awareness, but to ask yourself the questions about, what is this emotion? Why this emotion? What is why this emotion? Now? What is it trying to tell me? And now I can make her a considered response if, but if I don't do those steps, I'm just going to be the firecracker who who either explodes one day or just almost has a reaction that later on, with honesty, I'd reflect and go, geez, I wasn't so proud of the way I reacted there. But the difference here is the difference between reaction and response and training that muscle. Training that muscle. Tell me what that looks like for you?

Melinda McCormack: 23:24

I've got this funny story, and it's quite a simple story, which happens to everybody, right? So, you know, when you got to ring a call center like you got a dispute, whether that be, you know, with your phone or whatever. And so in my case, it was, I had to ring a Health Insurance Call Center. And anyways, so, you know, you wait because you really want to talk to a person. You listen to all the menus. And I looked at my at my watch, I thought, I got to get a meeting. You know, I'm starting to get frustrated. And then, so then, you know, 25 minutes later, I was incredibly frustrated, because I felt that they had the reason why I was ringing, because I was already angry, because I felt that they were overcharging me, right? And I'm thinking, why are they doing this to me? Blah, blah, blah, and had all these negative, you know, the the real, I guess, those negative emotions, right, which we as leaders have to cope with every day, right? Some pressure situation. And it, it was, for me, it was a minor situation. But then, when I got, finally got someone, I was ready to got into my previous, you know, corporate. What's going on here? How come, you know, blah, blah, blah, and I really didn't even allow the customer service operator to to speak. And then I thought, What am I doing? In my head? I. It just took me 10 seconds. I thought, What am I doing? You know, remember, pulse. I just paused, and then I listened to what she said to me, and guess what? I was wrong, and I never allowed her that opportunity to speak, until I kind of took that breath, you know, and it's, it's, it's really into and that that's as simple as it can be, because people just don't recognize it. They just keep going like, you know, in that frame of mind, and it's that simple pause, but it's something you got to practice. You know, it was like when you're in that environment, in that stressful environment, every day, it's very difficult. And then if you've got personal issues as well, like even for myself, to kind of then cope with some of the issues that may come up at work, right? You got all these commitments. You got, you know, targets to make, and you don't know how you're going to do that. So it's really Yes, it's about taking that time. It's just that little pause, and that's why you stay focused on what has got to be your outcome, even if it is for that day, then you kind of look at things in a more, yeah, you're responding but calmly. How often is that? You know, as a leader, you see they're frustrated, they're just angry, and they blame someone.

Mick Spiers: 26:35

And what does that serve? It doesn't actually bring any constructive conclusion. All it is is a conversation hijacked by emotion. And guess what? The rest of the people in the room are going to start doing it too, right so.

Melinda McCormack: 26:49

Yeah, exactly. So how often are you in meetings? You know, you can just see it. You know, one aggressive person after another if you go, go, go around the room in a meeting.

Mick Spiers: 27:01

Yeah, exactly.

Melinda McCormack: 27:02

And no one's listening to each other.

Mick Spiers: 27:06

In fact, two things here, two things. One will be people start going, Oh well, Melinda, do it. Did it, so I'm going to do it too. And they start Mick the behavior, or what's the opposite of someone being aggressive? The other half of the room starts getting defensive, right? And when you're defensive, you're not listening either. You're waiting for your turn to talk. You're not You're not listening anymore. So, so we've just killed the conversation. You got half the room in an aggressive stance and half the room in a defensive stance, and never the two shall meet with a common solution or understanding of what to do next. So it doesn't, it doesn't help everyone. Tell you a funny story, Melinda, about emotion. When you said I was calling a call center, here's an interesting thing in the body, right? As soon as you said the word call center, I got anxious. How's that, right? But once again, then if I, if I continue that, that's not going to serve me, if I just go, Well, that was a weird emotion to have, that's that was odd, and then I move on and have a response then, then it doesn't matter, but just that, just say, the way your body reacts to certain words that might trigger you, if you're not aware of that, you're walking around Like a tinderbox that's just going to react the most odd things. What an odd thing to react to. The word call center had a visual reaction when you said the words it's like, just to embody the lesson.

Melinda McCormack: 28:32

Yeah, like, because it's experiences, right? That's what you've experienced.

Mick Spiers: 28:36

Yeah, yeah. It was from experience. But yeah.

Melinda McCormack: 28:40

Yeah, and you continue to allow that experience.

Mick Spiers: 28:43

Yeah, exactly.

Melinda McCormack: 28:44

Yeah. That's that's what you remember, because 95% of our brain is already pre programmed, oh, you've got it. Then really make a conscious effort to unbundle that.

Mick Spiers: 28:57

Exactly. And what's happening there is confirmation bias is kicking in if I allow it to. And if my experience with call centers has always been bad, which it hasn't, if I'm honest, it hasn't, I've had some bad ones, just like everyone, but not all of them have. But if I let the word call center have that impact on me, then I'll start seeing all the signs that confirm that call centers are bad, and I forget all of the 90% of the times where I had a call with a call center where they did resolve my issue to my full satisfaction and quickly, right? So so confirmation bias kicks in, and we start just seeing things that confirm that belief, instead of instead of seeing the things that might be contradictory to that belief. How does that sit with you?

Melinda McCormack: 29:43

Yeah, and interestingly, I assumed right away, because call center, I'm going to deal with somebody who's quite Junior, who's probably just starting the organization. Do they really know everything? And again, that was all those biases, and she was. An incredible you know, she was young right away. So I picked up her, you know, by her voice, that she was young, and I just assumed all these things. And because I was just frustrated already, because I My mind was already on something else, right? So rather than just staying focused, being present and just taking a breath.

Mick Spiers: 30:21

Very good, right now I want to take a step backward before we step forward, a question I didn't get a chance to ask earlier, and I'm dying to know you. Melinda McCormack, you found yourself disconnected, right? You found yourself feeling small that you lost your I'm going to say you didn't use the word confidence, but I'm going to say you lost your confidence and you lost your voice. The person sitting in front of me today has reconnected, has re emerged, has found their voice, has written a great book. What shifted? How did you find how did you reconnect. And how did you refine your your purpose, your value, your voice?

Melinda McCormack: 31:05

I just took risks. I did things that were uncomfortable. So when we talk about learning, I'm a lifelong learner, which is which, which really helped me as well, and you need to be and accepting failure, I finally had the belief that it was okay if I didn't know that there were other people there that could help. And I think importantly too, you got to reach out. You got to reach out to your a community of people that can help you aspire and think to other possibilities. And that's what I did. I opened myself up to possibilities, and that's right, there was never any way that I would be a public speaker, and it was interesting. I mean, yes, I've spoken in front of corporate many times, but it's very different when you have to speak about a personal thing, your own business. And I've actually only done two or three, but I recently, yeah, this is only my second public speech. I was asked to attend the woman Economic Forum, and I spoke about cross cultural leadership, and I had a standing ovation again. It was because people are able to relate to you, and it's a story. So that's what I learned, to realize that people don't always know where you're coming from. But if you always can frame in a story or an analogy, then people actually remember, and in this particular speech, I talked about the bamboo and the oak tree, and the bamboo is a flexible even amidst, amongst storms, it stays, stays tall, but, you know, moves from side to side, then you have an oak tree, which is very rigid and not very flexible, right? And if it breaks, it breaks so I kind of use that analogy and weave that into business and how we needed to approach our international discussions with more empathy. That's how I I use that analogy, but everybody remembered the speech because of the bamboo and the oak tree and but, yeah, you know, and then I thought that was really my defining moment. I thought, wow, this is my only second public speech. And yet, yeah, you had cut through. It's good, yeah. And I think it was because I was able to I've been practicing my pulse for for years, not realizing it finally all came together. And as I mentioned, my son gave me that belief because I helped him all these years. And he said, I'm not that person, mom. And he said, You know, I suffer, you know, some anxieties, like most normal people do, but he felt that he came through those years, you know, emotionally intelligent.

Mick Spiers: 34:22

Okay, well, well done. On your own success. What I want to share with the audience, what I'm taking away from that, is that step outside your comfort zone and to take a risk, and to think about the fact that if you have disconnected and you don't do anything about it, you will remain disconnected. It will be with you forever. You need to take a step outside your comfort zone. So think about what's holding you back. You know, look at that fear in the eye and take take action despite fear. That's what that's what courage is. Take some take a courageous step. The other part that you said was about. Community and finding someone that you can talk to about it, which might be a group or it might be an individual, someone that you trust to have that conversation with, starts with a conversation. So I'm hearing take a step outside your comfort zone. I'm hearing have a conversation if you're finding yourself in that disconnected mode. All right, let's get to pulse. I want this to be the key takeaway from today. How does, how does someone start with the pulse framework, Melinda?

Melinda McCormack: 35:31

Yeah, so as I mentioned, it's an acronym, and pulse is really around how you use, I guess it's empathy in action, that's what I'm calling it. And so it is about building emotional fitness in yourself. And so you start, that's right, we go through, if we go, you know, chapter by chapter we talk about P you know, which is the first, first step is around finding your purpose and finding those outcomes and and understanding what those outcomes are, and aligning those outcomes to your values is really important. So I talk a lot about values, because I think that's that's really important, that kind of helps shape your decisions around things. So when I decided that, when I was finding my pulse, I realized that corporate wasn't really where I wanted to be. And, you know, I realized that there was another career step for me, personally and professionally. So I talk about that in the book. So you know about how you create your values, and then you create your think about your actions or the outcomes that you need to do based on your values. And then we move to Yeah, unlocking your emotional code. So it's really being emotionally aware, and that's really key, and just checking into that every day, or checking into that wherever you might be, if you're feeling like, like myself, even just, you know, in a conversation in a call center, you know, how is it that you reduce those emotions of fear, anxiety, depression, and move to a place where you're As we spoke about, where you're actually responding, rather than just reacting to something. So I've got a 25 emotion map that can because once you name an emotion, did you know that then that then is really all you really need, because that puts it into your brain. Okay, I need to be thinking or feeling something else right to get me to another emotion, and I color code them, because, you know, emotions are, you know. So we move, obviously, from the, you know, the white, yellow, blue, over to to the green section, where we're actually, you know, responding, we're being adaptive, we're being flexible and understanding. And then L is about learning. We actually need to learn new emotional tools. And people don't like hearing, oh, emotional tools, so but vulnerability, curiosity, and one of the key ones for me was humility, and that's being able to, you know, accept failure, and you got to practice these. I it just doesn't people talk about it, oh, like, for example, it was funny. I was talking to a senior leader the other day. I'm empathetic. I listen. It's not just listening again. It's got to be something that you do, right? So you learn these tools, so then you're able to then shift, which is s, it's about shifting with intent and with action, and then, yeah, as I mentioned before, we talk about then ease, fully embracing, and that's really utilizing both sides, you know, balancing that heart with that mind that leads.

Mick Spiers: 39:35

Yeah, really good. So let me share with you my key takeaways of what I'm hearing Melinda, and something that I'm going to intentionally practice myself, and I encourage the audience to do this as well. So the big takeaway for me from today is this concept of emotional fitness, and it is something that we practice. I'm going to say in all of the pulse framework that you're talking about. This is an intentional. Action to lean into and do intentionally. It's not an autopilot exercise. Okay, so what I'm taking away is on on the purpose. I'm picturing a bit of a compass here, that my purpose would be a directional compass of who am I? Why do I exist, and what am I trying to achieve here? And will this emotional reaction that I might have had in the moment serve that purpose or not serve that purpose? But I'm also hearing a little bit of moral compass in there as well, because you're bringing in the word values there to go. Well, is that a reaction that I'd be proud of from my own values? Do I really treat other human beings like that. For example, I'm not going to put my values onto everyone else, but a lot of my values are about how I treat other human beings. So if I act in a way that's contrary to those those values, I would be not happy with myself. So the purpose is my direction, my compass, unlocking the emotional code is then getting to know myself, to know what are my emotions and what are my emotional triggers, and what does it what are those emotions trying to tell me and but that's an intentional action, that's not once again. It's not an autopilot, then learning as I'm as I'm going and what I'd loved you reflecting on here I'm going to use that word, the word reflecting on these different experiences that I'm having. And how is it fine tuning my emotional code as I go, then the shifting. I also liked what you said about practicing different things. So if you it's once again, an intentional action. You use the one humility. If you've never been vulnerable in the workplace, let's use I'm going to switch to that one for a second. If you've never been vulnerable in the in the workplace, it's about time you you had a go at it. An intentional action to go, right? I'm going to be a bit vulnerable today. I'm going to stick up my hand and say, Actually, I need help or I don't know the answer. And then watch and learn what happens when you do that, and then to embrace it as you go along. So purpose, unlocking the emotional code, learning, shifting and embracing, but to me, the emotional fitness that it's an intentional action, something that you're going to do, and then you're going to reflect on to go, Okay, what worked, what didn't work, and you're learning more about yourself every day. How does that summary sit with you, Melinda?

Melinda McCormack: 42:30

Fantastic. Mick, I could have said it better myself, but no, and I love the way you said. It's that practical, and it's that simple too. And when you you know, when people read the book, they'll see that it is, these are difficult topics to understand. It's, again, just putting a focus on it, right? It's, it's about being present and and putting a focus on it.

Mick Spiers: 42:57

And I'm going to use that word, get out of autopilot again, right? So, so it becomes an intentional thing that you're focusing on, right? Very good. And you will see changes. You'll see changes in the way you feel. You'll see changes in your impact with others.

Melinda McCormack: 43:13

Yeah, and, you know, it's why I talk about, you know, how I set my business up, impacting with empathy and how we, you know, by being and living the pulse, because it That's right, there's this whole aspect of self leadership, which I talk about in the book, really, but the majority of the book is about you. You got to lead yourself, isn't it, before then you can actually lead others.

Mick Spiers: 43:40

Nice one. All right. Well, thank you so much, Melinda. You've given us a lot to sit and reflect on, but also take action so that we lean into this and that we don't just go, Oh, that was an interesting conversation, Melinda, we actually do something with this. So really good. I'm going to take us now to our Rapid Round. These are the same four questions we ask all of our guests. What's the one thing you know now? Melinda McCormack that you wish you knew when you were 20?

Melinda McCormack: 44:07

Yeah, accepting failure and realizing that you know every failure is the learning step. But I was that perfection person, perfectionist. Yeah? So definitely, that is my key, and which I again I practice every day.

Mick Spiers: 44:26

Yeah, I feel like we could have a complete episode on that topic, Melinda about how to get past perfectionism and that realization. So thank you for sharing that. What's your favorite book?

Melinda McCormack: 44:38

My favorite book? I have many favorite books, but the one that really impacted me was the art of transforming yourself, by Dr Joe Dispenza. So he was the one that really got me thinking a lot about all emotions, but you know, your thoughts and. Biases. He talked a lot about biases, which is so true.

Mick Spiers: 45:05

Yeah. Oh, very good. And what's your favorite quote?

Melinda McCormack: 45:09

My favorite quote is a quote by Robin Sharma, who I love as well. I think he's a, you know, an amazing man. Yeah, every human being has a lesson to teach, a story to tell, and some dream in their heart that longs for your support.

Mick Spiers: 45:29

Very good. And finally, Melinda, how do people find you? There's going to be people listening to this show, recognizing themselves as they as they hear our conversation and wanting to do something. How do people find you if they want to take advantage of your your services, or find the book or to do the work themselves?

Melinda McCormack: 45:51

Yeah, so my book is on Amazon and as well, is soon to be hitting all of the major bookstores as well. I have a website, melindamccormack.com which is still evolving, but you'll be able to get in contact with me, purchase my book, or even have a look at the types of services that I can actually provide and then yeah, LinkedIn and email, mym@melindamccormack.com

Mick Spiers: 46:29

All right, brilliant, Melinda, thank you so much for your for the gift of your time and sharing very vulnerably your story of disconnection, reconnection and then How you use what you learned to help others. Reminder on the book, it's called Pulse, empathy is your edge, and I'm sure that it's something that you will all get great value from. Thank you so much, Melinda really appreciated our conversation today.

Melinda McCormack: 46:54

Thanks, Mick.

Mick Spiers: 46:57

This powerful conversation with Melinda reminds us of a truth many leaders overlook. People don't disengage all at once. They disconnect slowly through 1000 small moments. The key takeaways from today's discussion, emotions drive behavior, whether we acknowledge them or not, empathy isn't softness, it's leadership, strength and emotional fitness is a skill that must be practiced, not assumed. So here are a few reflection questions for you to take away today. Where might I be reacting emotionally instead of responding intentionally? How emotionally safe do people feel around me? And when was the last time I trained my emotional muscle, not just my technical skills? So your action this week, practice one intentional pause when something triggers you. Pause, name the emotion and choose a response aligned with your values, that single pause can change the tone of a conversation, a relationship or a culture. In our next episode, we shift to one of the most universal leadership frustrations of all meetings and why so many of them drain energy instead of creating it. We're joined by Rebecca Hines, an expert in organizational behavior, the future of work, and the author of your best meeting ever. You've been listening to The Leadership Project. If today sparked an insight, don't keep it to yourself. Share it with one other person who would benefit from listening to the show. A huge thank you to Gerald Calibo for his tireless work editing every episode, and to my amazing wife, Sei, who does all the heavy lifting in the background to make this show possible. None of this happens without them around here. We believe leadership is a practice, not a position, that people should feel seen, heard, valued and that they matter, that the best leaders trade ego for empathy, certainty for curiosity and control for trust. If that resonates with you, please subscribe on YouTube and on your favorite podcast app, and if you want more, follow me on LinkedIn and explore our archives for conversations that move you from knowing to doing Until next time. Lead with curiosity, courage and care you.