SPEAKER_00

In this episode, you'll discover the hidden identity shift that happens in every career and life transition, and the question that reveals who you really are underneath the roles you've been playing. Welcome to the Midlife Reinvention Podcast, a podcast helping women in career and life transitions achieve clarity on their next steps so they can transform uncertainty into an energizing next chapter. I'm your host, Kavita Ahuja, and the founder of It's My Time Now Coaching. If you're wondering what's next in your career or life, you are in the right place. Through solo and guest episodes, you'll gain practical tips, tools, and inspiration to help you uncover blocks, gain confidence, and be, do, and have what you want. I rediscovered myself after the age of 50, and I know you can too. It's my time now to help you do just that. I'm so excited you're here. Let's dive in. In this episode of the Midlife Reinvention Podcast, I'm sitting down with Dr. Kathleen Perry to explore something many of us in midlife are quietly going through, but rarely have language for. What happens to your sense of self when the identity you've spent decades building no longer fits? And how do you find your way back to who you actually are underneath? In this episode, you'll discover three things. First, why your sense of identity can feel shaken even when nothing dramatic has happened. And how to recognize what your system is actually trying to tell you. Second, why the voice in your head is not actually you, and the simple shift that finally lets you see through it. And third, the one question to ask yourself daily that cuts through the noise of should and have to and reveals what you actually want. Stay with me to the end because Kathleen and I get into what loss can teach us about being more alive and why she now feels more alive than she did before any of it happened. It's your coach, Kavita. And today I'm speaking with Dr. Kathleen Perry, who is a transformational coach, former chiropractor and acupuncturist, and host of the Identity Matters podcast. After decades in natural health care and a series of profound personal losses, Kathleen found herself asking a question so many of us are afraid to sit with. Who am I without the roles I've been playing? What she discovered on the other side of that question is at the heart of our conversation today. So thank you so much for being here, Kathleen. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here. Just thank you for having me. Of course, of course. Kathleen, you had a thriving career in natural health care and you built this practice from the ground up. And then you experienced your life, kind of handed you some losses that kind of changed everything. So maybe if you could take us back and the listeners back to that chapter on your life, and what was it like to realize that you weren't going back to the career that you had kind of had defined you, right, for so long?

SPEAKER_01

Very much, very much so. Yes, I I had built out a big space. I was new to South Texas and built this functional medicine, acupuncture, women's health clinic, and was had a lot invested in that. And the first loss was one that many, many people, everyone went through was COVID. Yes. And so we were shut down as non-essential healthcare providers for six weeks or so. But my husband was already at home in hospice with pulmonary fibrosis. And I came home and I thought, I can figure out how to do this from home. And I did figure out how to do it, but it just wasn't working. And so I decided that I really needed to just kind of set that aside and give myself to him to the end of his life. So he died in July of 2020. And actually, before he died, I called the realtor who had helped me secure the place that I renovated and was renting. And I told him, I'm not going back to the brick and mortar. I'm just, I'm done with that. I'm done with having overhead and a staff. I don't really know what I'm gonna do, but it's not that. And I knew it, like just like woke up one day and I knew it. And then he kind of said, Well, do you realize the financial cost of that? Because you signed a five-year lease. And I said, It doesn't matter. I can't go back. I just there was gonna be a big financial cost. And so, yeah, that that's kind of how that all that unfolding and unwinding of the career identity that I'd built, just part of it was my choice for sure. And part of it was the circumstances of life, just kind of saying, No, I'm not this right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But you kind of knew, right? You said you you had you just knew. I think you had a grief counselor and he had asked you a question while your husband was still alive, and then I'm sorry for your loss with your husband. And he said, Who are you going to who are you going to be when you're no longer Mrs. Mike Pearl? You mentioned you lost the identity with or the identity that no longer fit. Like, so what happened then? What happened?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Well, actually, I was experiencing so much anxiety being at home by myself with my husband not wanting anyone in the house, including any of the hospice nurses. So I said, okay, I'll take on that role. I'll walk you all the way home. And it was very stressful. I'm not the only one who went through something like that, I know. And so I knew that I wanted some support. I needed some support. And I had a patient who'd had a profound loss. And she referred to this grief counselor. And I thought, yeah, okay, I'll try that. And so this woman was really special. And when she asked me the question, who will you be when you're no longer Mrs. Mike Perry? And I was kind of like taken aback, and I was like, I'm just gonna be who I always was. And what I realized, maybe not then, was that my identity was much more tied to Dr. Perry. That was the so I thought, well, I'm gonna miss my husband. I loved him dearly. I enjoyed, and and that was the truth, Kavita, that he he was the love of my life. But that wasn't the identity that shook me. It really was kind of the I don't know, it was, it, it was all the losses. And by the way, in a five-year period, I had five profound losses. And everyone ended up being a portal to taking a look at when roles and identities and people in your life are no longer there. Who are you? What's left? What is? And and what's there is what's always been there. But we take ourselves to be the roles we play, the things that have happened to us, the beliefs that we have, the the thoughts in our head. I mean, that that's the biggest one. Everything that the voice in our head tells us, we think that's us. And so, yeah, it I didn't understand the question, to be honest with you. I think the fact that I was like, well, that's not gonna be a problem because I'm not identified as a wife, even though I loved being my husband's wife.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But then I found out, oh, yeah, yeah. Later on, I was like, oh, I know exactly what she was talking about. Yes, yeah. Who you take yourself to be, that's a constructed persona that's not not who you are. It isn't the truth, the full truth and the essence of who you are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love when you said that the loss, every loss was a portal to who you are, every loss, and and that two-year-old is who you are has not been lost, it's always been there. But I also want to go back to not but and I want to go back to uh what you mentioned about that voice in our heads, and that's I I speak about that a lot here, and I and especially with my clients, who that voice in our heads, it really runs the show often. That inner critic, the perfectionism or the limiting beliefs sometimes we have, but we can't do this, we can't, we're we're not qualified enough or good enough to do the next thing or to be somebody that we're not used to being, right? So you said that you did mention that that voice in our head doesn't run the show. So tell us a bit about that and how did you what do you mean by that? And how did how does somebody who's listening might change that? And how did you manage that, those voices? Or do you still do that?

SPEAKER_01

So it seems like it's running the show, but it's not. I mean, we give it a lot of our attention, and then sometimes we add fuel to the fire. But those thoughts aren't I don't know where they come from. I've got a lot of theories, but I'm not really sure where they come from. But they're not really us. If you think about it, and I'm so glad to hear that that's you spend a lot of time talking to your clients about that, I do with my clients as well. Because we create our experience by the power of our thinking. Our experience is from the inside out. It's not what's happening out there that's making us feel a certain way or do a certain way. It is our interpretation of of what's happening, right? Our thinking about what's happening, the stories that we tell. And so you did ask, it seemed like you asked a couple questions in there, but one thing you said was, what did I do to manage that thinking? And I discovered that it's not possible or necessary to manage it. There's still a voice in my head. Yes. But I just see through it now. I just see, oh, and guess what? There are moments when I'm tired and maybe there are two or three things closing in on me, and I'll get caught up in that thinking and identified with that for a while. But I catch wise to it a lot faster because one, it doesn't feel good. And when I get that sense in my body that something's off, then I kind of go, Okay, what are you thinking and believing? Oh yeah, that story. That story's running again. So this took me a while to see that I mean, my first insight was that there's a voice in my head and it's not me. But it's took me a while to see that I didn't have to do anything about it. I just had to see through it. And that might seem for somebody listening who hasn't heard this kind of thing before that we're talking about, it might seem like, oh come on, really? It's that simple. And in a way, it is that simple. You just the seeing of it all of a sudden you come to a realization that it's it's just a voice. Now, how that happens, like the way I coach is not formulaic or steps or this is the way I did it, or frameworks, or protocols, or paradigms, because there's an intelligence that is who all of us are. And it's living us all the time. We're just identified with something else most of the time. And that's that's where the all the suffering comes from. And it's not to say that there aren't challenges and things where we do have to refer to our intellect to make decisions, and but but I've learned too, and I'm still learning, I expect to be life handing me new lessons till my last breath, right? And just I don't have it all figured out. But I have just come to live my life trusting that, trusting that, living as that, letting go of the steering wheel, letting go of the grip of and it doesn't mean that I don't have some intentions and but I've been playing with a lot lately. What do I actually want? And that's been that seems to kind of cut through a lot of I don't know if I can say a a bad word, but you can say it's a lot, but but it seems to kind of cut through some of the bullshit. If I just like not what should I do, what do I think I do to do, what can I do, what can I do, what do I actually want to do?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

What's actually alive right now?

SPEAKER_00

What's calling me? Yeah. I I I think that's that's really an important question. And I I I want to I want to get back, I want to get right into that. I I want to just go back a little bit to that voice in our hands, and I really agree with you. And then I I always say it's not that voice in the hands is not you. It's it's it's it's something that's there that's firstly questioning why is it here, and really often it's it's as a protective mesh mechanism to protect us from something else, right? And it's not you, so that's very important for anyone listening. Yes. I love going back to what you said about the question is what do I actually want? And that that is really a key. And I think a lot of women listening have that that's such a big question I get every day. I don't really know what I want. And a lot of that sense of that something is missing in in their lives. And even if even if their life, and like for example, I same with me, that happened to me, everything looks great on paper, right? Everything maybe seemed perfect on the outside, but there is something missing. And that question comes up a lot, especially in when midlife and this stage when we're like in transition period in our life. What is that trying to tell us? Like, what is that something missing? What like when we hear that in our in ourselves?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, first of all, I can share what it was like for me. And then of course I'd love to hear what it was like for you too, because it it seems to be really common. And since we're probably speaking to midlife women in in transition, as as circumstances in our life change, that question does seem to come up, like, okay, because now you have an opening, something's the children are gone, you're an empty nest, or I'm I struggled with that. I've struggled with that question for a long time. Am I really doing? And that I think it was kind of a sense that there's something missing. And I I guess if I could say if I were to try to say one thing that would apply to everybody because everybody's path is going to be very different, it would be just go within. The answer is the answers within. And for me, I found out that it wasn't as big and grandiose as I thought it was. It was ordinary and simple. It was like just be. But I but I pretty much do live my life more like what do I want right now? Mm-hmm. However, I think maybe for me, and I'd love to hear for you, I think the struggle was I was still paying attention to that noise, that voice in my head that was saying, you can't, you shouldn't. There you this is look at all those years you went to school. You you and what and when I found out that what I want is just to hang out with my dog today at home, have this conversation, and then my mom just died four weeks ago. And her boyfriend, like really husband, they were only together five years, but he's grieving, and so we have dinner every Thursday night because me and her and him had dinner every Thursday night. And that's that's it. Like, that's what I want today. That's so the things that I want have changed. I think this might be typical for most people at this phase of life. Relationships are more important and love. I just I want to experience love every day. So I am curious about you trying to figure out what is it you actually want and that feeling of something missing. What was what is that like for you?

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for asking. Yeah, I it was this similar to what you mentioned. I I was in a in a career for a long time, right? In in uh in a in a corporate career for 25 years, similar to you. And I had that identity, that role. And it was good when it was good, honestly. It it but there was something that around the time I turned 50, things changed and and and it was like, is this really what I want? That question, what do I actually want, really came from inside. And that was a trigger. And then we have all these different we can have different types of triggers, but that was my trigger. And it's like, this isn't really, is this how I want to live my life for the rest of my life? Like with because I felt that something was missing, and that something was like finding out who I am, what I really wanted, what what I was doing, was it aligned with who I wanted to be, what I wanted to contribute in the world? And it had shifted. And and you're right, it was when my my boys had left the house, and you know it was like there was more time for myself, more time to think about those things. And and then I realized, well, I'm not the only one with this. And that's that that's what led me to this work. And I just think it's fascinating. That question is so important. What do I actually want? Can be a trigger and a a launching pad, I guess, for your next not even what to do, but who to be, right? It's not so much, yeah, it's not so much, oh, I have to do this, like you were mentioning. You if you want to just like not just, but if you want to play with your dog today, that's that's what you who you want to be today, right? But it's fulfilling something internal that maybe when we were younger, perhaps, we didn't have possibly the time or even the uh understanding that that that was missing, right? So it's about looking at what your values change, your passions change, your things change in your life as you go older. And that's what this is all about, is like kind of understanding what he's as you said before, who is a woman within. You know, and bringing her out.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yes, and and to me, now tell me if I say it in any way that's not landing right, but when you discovered that you wanted to go within, then what came from that was wanting to engage in that and help others do that, like a natural consequence of following the tickles of your soul or the well, you you you let yourself do that. Yeah. And then you probably weren't up in your head trying to figure out, oh, can I make a business out? Like it sounds like it had a little bit of an organic.

SPEAKER_00

It was, it was. I didn't know. I didn't like I didn't know I was gonna start a podcast. I didn't know. I knew I wanted to reach as many women as I could with this message of that that it's it's not the ending. This is the beginning of your life. It is, it's It's not a crisis. And so then I, yeah, I I fell naturally into it. And that I think that that's one of the messages I often share is that you don't have to know everything. It's it's you were saying f you've heard the term follow your bliss, right? So it's like follow what feels right. Which is back to what do you actually want that you actually want. And then the things and and people and circumstances will will follow. And I think that one of the things is that a lot of women who come to me and probably to you too, as you've you've come across, they're they're just kind of managing, right? Like they're just kind of pushing through life and they're anxious and they're maybe very burnt out or feeling all these things that because they're feeling maybe they're stuck, right? And where they are, like if it's a career or a relationship or whatever, and they don't feel like there's a a way out. And so how do if somebody's listening who is feeling that way, that feeling stuck in in their circumstances? What would you say to them? What are these feelings actually trying to tell us?

SPEAKER_01

That something's out of alignment, I would say. Yeah. And it's nothing's wrong with them. In fact, it's something very right going on with them. Their system, the mind, the body, the spirit, all of it is sending them a little love note. It probably doesn't feel like a love note, though. Because I was I've been there multiple times in my life. Yeah. Something about my circumstances is what it was in the past. Like, I don't like this, I want to change it, but I don't know how I feel stuck. Yeah, your your system is telling you. So I would say first, don't approach yourself like a self-help project or that like you're broken or there's something wrong. Love yourself, be patient with yourself, and see if you can just love that stuck part. So a good question is to just say, Who am I? What am I? Who am I really? In addition to I think the what do you actually want is one portal that works for some people, but sometimes like take away the roles, take away the body, take away the story, your gender, your age, your where you live, your set of beliefs, all the things that happened to you in your life. And you you may have done this with your clients. I do it a lot in my groups. Who am I? Tell your neighbor here, just explore who you are, beneath that, or above that, or beyond that. And that's to me, the exploration of that is where because when the identity loosens, right? The the because that's what I'm for the second time planning to write a book. And the title is gonna be She's Come Undone. But now I'm landing on life before death because I had five losses in five years, and I feel more alive than I did five years ago before I went through this. So you're stuck who am I? Yes. And when you tap into and you recognize the magnificence of who you are beneath the story of who you are, that's when the identity starts to unwind, unravel. It's not like you're gonna stop being a mother and stop being a podcaster, but all of a sudden you're gonna see who and what you really are. Yes. And and living from that, living as that while brushing your teeth and cooking your meals and going to the bathroom, right? All of that, all of that's happening within the space of who we really are, what we really and we're not separate. That's the other thing. So many of our problems. I know for me, I'm an only child. I went through a trauma at age five. Again, people don't have to know their backstory, but for me, it became clear that at that point I was kind of like, okay, I'm the lone wolf. It's up to me. I became very self-reliant. And that when I started seeing through that, like my life now has changed a lot. I need people, I need help. I'm and I'm part of something bigger, whether it's even a person that shows up. But it's interesting when I just kind of internally ask, it's like people and circumstances just like silver platter show up for me.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. It's the energy, it's the yeah, I I love that. That question, who am I really is, is something where you kind of begin to kind of you don't have to be in control all the time, but you just kind of trust something deeper that shows up when you ask that question, right? Who am I really? And if you really listen to that, then the answer will come. And I think I agree with you, and then it's about tapping into into that. How do we tap into that knowing and and then letting it surface and allowing giving itself permission to to show up? Yes. And I mean you you you had told me a story. I think you said that you had started you had uh you had an idea of your podcast, for example, and it took you, I think you said four and a half years before you actually watched it. So was it was it because you were stuck, or was it because it wasn't fully what what what shifted for you there?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

There was a couple things you said though that I just wanted to highlight before I answer that question. Because I, since we mostly your listeners are mostly women, and it's in men too, it's everywhere, it's baked into us is that intuition, yeah, being led by intuition and trusting that. And you use the word manage and control. I grapple with that, like how much control do we actually have? How much of life is just happening? But I don't have to know. I can just tell you though, when I take the hands off the steering wheel, I trust something bigger and deeper than me, my own inner guidance, my wisdom, my intuition, whatever it is, God, source, there's something in it and universal intelligence, all the names for it. I have there's much less managing that's necessary. So I just think that's huge. You said that, and I just kind of wanted to throw some gasoline on that fire. No, no, that is yeah, I think we don't want to like rush through that, but yes. You said that, and that is yes, and we can trust it. I think for women who if every single person and woman listening knows that they've had times when their gut feeling or their heart or their intuition told them, and sometimes we doubt it, we question it, and we don't listen. And then real later we realize things might have turned out differently if I'd paid attention. Yeah. And again, I believe that everything happens because it's supposed to, so you gotta learn that lesson a few times, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Why do we why do we choose not to listen to that?

SPEAKER_01

Maybe that's different for everybody. It seems to me like it could be our culture, our society doesn't honor that. Yeah. We're taught you go to school and you're taught to learn a certain way, be a certain way, accomplish a certain way. Yes. Our society has values. I'm I'm 65. I'm I'm an elder now. That that wisdom and intuition, it's I'm gonna make sure that it's honored more in my little chunk of the world. Yeah. But we don't. We we don't. And I don't think it's encouraged. I think it's in many ways kind of conditioned out of us. Yes. And so however the doubts come up in your our own mind. And like you said, if it's an attempt to protect us, well, maybe you better just make a spreadsheet and pay attention to that and not go what you're when your gut feeling or intuition is telling you to do the opposite of that. Yeah. It's kind of scary. Yes. I do with my coaching, I will, and oftentimes I'll ask my client, how could you create an experiment where you could test that out with something really little? You could test your intuition to see, oh, it is trustworthy. I wouldn't give a prescription, but I might say, Do you feel like playing with a little experiment? And so your listeners could right now. How could you set up something where you're facing a small decision and throw out the logic and the into and the intellect? Say, what do I actually want? What is my heart? What is my gut telling me to do? And just like undo it. Try it that way. Just do it. Just do it. Just do it. See what happens.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's great. That's wonderful. And is that what happened when going back to the podcast? Is that yeah, back to the podcast? Is that what happened with well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So the initial idea, I was in a business mastermind. It was the first mastermind about a year after my husband died. And she opened it up. It was a small group of maybe seven businesswomen. And I was there going, like, I think I want to be a coach, but I don't know. I don't know what the bit like I'm just showing up. I just showed up, and it was, I mean, it was great to just show up. Followed your intuition. Yeah. I did. I did. It wasn't and it wasn't cheap. I made an investment. And after five months, I was like, I'm no closer to a business. And that that was fine. But we opened with like kind of a I don't remember the exercise, but your wildest dream, what would it be? And so it's like, I like to play pickleball. I'd like to have a podcast that author Tim Galway that wrote the book, The Inner Game of Tennis. I want to have a podcast called The Inner Game of Pickleball. And so that was the birth of the idea. And then who knows? I think just circumstances and it wasn't it wasn't what emerged two months ago when I started this podcast. So I'm glad I waited. Yes, because this was what was being born. Right. I think that that four and a half years was an incubation period. And and though, the other thing that was stopping me was a very strong voice in my head saying, You're not ready. You have the ideas, but you don't articulate them well. And it needs to be perfect. I mean, that was identity for me that still likes to try to get hooks in me again. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

My podcast is messy. Yeah. It's so funny. It reminds me of I talked to I had a little poster about this orchid that I have grown in my kitchen. And and I was seeing looking at it and I was like, all the buds formed except this one little one that was taking a long time to bloom, right? And then it just kind of reminded me, like you have the seed, right? And then you have all the conditions underneath the seed, and some of some buds bloom and others wait. And then it's just about the timing. And I I think that was to me, that's a it's a good analogy is that you you you're not gonna plant a seed and then like look at it and go, Well, how come you're not growing yet? It's it's it's about about the conditions making of first planting a seed and then having the right conditions for it to grow. And I think that's uh you know when the time is right, it will happen, but you have to be you have to trust that it'll happen. And maybe such a good yes.

SPEAKER_01

Perfect analogy. Yeah, perfect analogy. Yeah. Because I didn't even see how much that was true until you told me that little story. Yes, that really, really was happening. Because it looked to me like mostly I finally quit, and I did. I let that voice be there, and I said, I'm doing it anyway. And that's another thing that if something's important to us and we really want to do it, and that would be the thing. Like, I guess I just didn't really want to until I actually really wanted to. And then the bloom bloomed and the and the voice was there, but I just let it be background noise. Yeah, and it's still there. I still down to record episodes. Right. And back to what do we there's no need to manage the voice in our head. No, we just see it for what it is, and some days it's like and it's it'll cause a feeling quite often, and it's always gonna result in a feeling in the body. And so that's a good check engine light. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, wonderful. Check engine, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, acknowledge it's there and and then do it anyway. Right. I did it. I think it's wonderful. What what are you what do you what what are you doing now or who are you being now?

SPEAKER_01

I have the podcast. Yes, I love, and it is it's my work. I I want it to be a gift. I want to know that if I'm outside walking the dog and I run into somebody and they may not ever coach with me, but but I might be able to send them a text message or give them direct them to three episodes on anxiety on my podcast.

SPEAKER_00

What's the name of your podcast?

SPEAKER_01

Identity Matters.

SPEAKER_00

Identity Matters. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that name just I labored over that name, and then it came to me. I mean, it was a download.

SPEAKER_00

Just on that, because I love that title. Maybe, maybe the like listener, person who's listening, what does that mean? What does that mean to you? Like, what is should it mean to her? Identity matters. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's kind of got the double meaning of identity matters, as in matters topics, right? The matters that we talk about, but identity matters so much because it's it's everything we were talking about here. Yeah, the who we take ourselves to be is when we can see the deeper truth of who we are, it changes everything. Changes everything. We identify as the voice in our head. And that's not who we really are. So I think I think the podcast would be great for anyone who's curious about what we've been talking about. What do you mean, voice in my head? What do you mean I'm not the roles who I yeah, who I'm not, I'm not entirely who I'm taking myself to be. Right, right. I'm not separate, I'm not this isolated persona that's been constructed, conditioned, acquired. I'm so much more than I'm so much more magnificent than that. And that's that's the message. And so there's a book. I'm in a mastermind right now, my second attempt at a book. Who knows? No pressure, because actually I signed up for the mastermind. And and when we introduced ourselves in the beginning, I said, I'm here because I like the coach, I like this community, I want to write, but I have no intention of writing book. And they were all like, Great, we're happy to have you here, Kathleen. And then literally, 48 hours later, I had I had all seven chapters and I had the book. Because it was already there. It was already there. It was everything already, but yeah, it was everything. I like my days to be pretty free. So cultivating friendships, and that's a big one for me. I don't have children, I don't have siblings, and losing my mom. I lost my husband in 2020, my stepfather who raised me the next year, my biological father the next year. Then I don't discount as people who don't have animals that are when I put my dog to sleep in the fourth year, and then I just lost my mom. And so friendship, deepening friendship, cultivating new friends that are more aligned with who I'm now taking myself to be. Not that what's the isn't then the girl starts we would say, make new friends, but keep the old one in silver. But I have met some amazing people through coaching, through a meditation group, that a large meditation group that I'm in. And those are the kind of people that I'm I like fewer, deeper. I'm I really enjoy depth. But then I have to like just go out there and just hit that darn tennis ball. So I'm working on getting my knee back in shape so I can get back on the court. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah. Well, that's that's so great. And it's especially going through all those losses and you're doing what you love to do and and listening to your intuition. And as you said, identity matters. So yeah, it's it's it's been wonderful having this conversation with Kathleen. A lot of wisdom and lived experience. And I'm sure that the listeners are have gained a lot. So I really appreciate your time and sharing. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01

This conversation has been, I mean, it just flowed and it was. I think we we found some juiciness in there.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think we did.

SPEAKER_01

You're a great, you're a great person to just sit down and talk to and a great interviewer.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I I love doing what I do and stuff. It shows it's that's why I do it so and also to to to help women who are feeling stuck or feeling like maybe their identity doesn't matter or they don't matter, and they to just to let them know that they do. And so I I again I really appreciate it, and we'll if if we'll share your links in in the in the show notes. Thank you. You you take care. You too. What a beautiful conversation. Thank you so much, Kathleen, for sharing your wisdom and your story with us today. Before we close, here are the three biggest takeaways from today. First, the identity you have built over decades is not who you really are. It is something you have constructed, conditioned, and acquired. And when life takes that identity away through loss, transition, or change, what feels like a crisis is actually an invitation to discover who you have been underneath all along. Second, the voice in your head is not you. You do not have to fix it or manage it. You only have to see through it. The seeing is what changes everything. And third, the most powerful question you can ask yourself in midlife is this: what do I actually want? Not what should I do, not what can I do, what do I actually want? That single question cuts through everything else, and the answer is closer to the surface than you think. As Kathleen and I talked about today, the voice in our heads keeps so many women from acting on what they actually want. We hear, you're not ready, or you're not qualified enough, or who do you think you are to do this? That voice does not go away, but you can build the confidence to act anyway. And that is exactly what my 28 Days to Building Confidence guide is designed to do. It gives you 28 days to small daily practices and short video lessons for me to help you trust your own voice over the noise in your own head and step into who you really are with confidence. The link is in the show notes. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend who needs to hear it, and consider leaving a review wherever you listen to your podcast. It helps other women in transition. Find it. And remember, my friend, you get to decide what comes next. So say it with me, and say it with confidence. It's my time now.