Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Geeks explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Office Horror: Not Just for Halloween
Ever wondered how scurvy, scorpions, and strip clubs are connected? Let's embark on a rollercoaster of a conversation that stretches from citrus fruits and pet antics to the unexpected twists of celebrity scenarios you never knew you needed. You'll hear colorful stories about our unforgettable Mardi Gras trip and the wild detours we took along the way, all while sharing laughs over some seriously bizarre imaginations involving Brad Pitt and Kim Basinger. It's a joyful romp through the absurdities of life that will leave you grinning.
Shifting from the absurd to the impactful, we explore how Robert Propst's revolutionary office designs reshaped the modern workspace. Imagine the chaos of the bullpens of yesteryear, and you'll appreciate how Propst's cubicle concept brought a much-needed balance between privacy and productivity. This historical pivot opens a wider conversation about its socio-economic ripple effects, highlighting issues like workers' rights, corporate power dynamics, and the ongoing battles of the middle class in today's economy.
Finally, we plunge into the eerie world of workplace horror, where mundane office settings transform into chilling narratives. Whether it’s the psychological tension of "Exam," the chaos of "Office Uprising," or the corporate nightmares of "Severance," these stories speak to the deeper anxieties we have about work and capitalism. We dissect films like "Mayhem" and "Vampire's Kiss" for their unique takes on horror in the workspace, debating the nuances of their narratives. Plus, we sprinkle in some playful musings on supporting local businesses and wrap it all up with our trademark quirky send-off.
Getting scurred, getting scurvy, we're always getting scurvy. You and I Break out the limes.
Speaker 2:I haven't had orange juice today. Is orange juice acidic enough to do the job? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Actually I have no idea. I just always assumed it was just citrus in general, Will oranges stop scurvy Scorpions?
Speaker 2:That's the first thing that pops up. Will oranges stop scorpion? Now I have to know.
Speaker 1:Do scorpions stop scurvy? Is it to ban scorpions?
Speaker 2:Scorpions hate fruity smells, so you could also plant citrus plants that repel scorpions. In Arizona, orange and lemon trees grow well in the hot sun, so you can try this method to turn away scorpions. Oh yeah, orange is scurvy, that's the worst supervillain I've ever heard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they'll do the job. Oranges and lemons prevented scurvy. You did it. That's why I don't have scurvy.
Speaker 2:One more day without scurvy.
Speaker 1:I had a limeade yesterday and I had orange juice today, so no scurvy for me. It's all gout from here on out, gentlemen let's broaden our minds. Are they in the proper approach pattern for today? Negative All the weapons Now Charge the lightning field. Welcome back to Dispatch Ajax, I'm Skip.
Speaker 2:I am Jake. My grandma had a dog named Scurvy. Okay, it's just. When I think of Scurvy, I think of the dog Scurvy.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:All right.
Speaker 1:That's all. He's a cute dog. Kate used to have a cat named Gervie, who was named after Dr Joseph Goebbels, so Ah yeah. Hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm she said it was either going to be that or Steve Buscemi the cat. So it became Joseph Goebbels, I think. I Buscemi, the cat she just liked the reactions people had to it. That's why yeah, really great cat Acted like a dog Used to go on walks with us. I don't know where to go from there.
Speaker 2:Well, probably to the world of horror Skirt already.
Speaker 1:Horror world, I guess. I don't know what that would be. It's like cool world, but somehow cooler. Less Brad Pitt, I'm sure. Well, most things have less Brad Pitt but more Kim Basinger. That's why the world's worse off. So many things have more Kim Basinger, though there's like a serious deficiency issue. You got to get those two things in balance.
Speaker 2:The scales of justice sir.
Speaker 1:Kim Basinger and Pitt White wine and shrimp.
Speaker 2:Beaver boys B-b-b-b-beaver boys, that's so fucking funny Alright.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking about vomiting on Kim Basinger.
Speaker 2:Brad Pitt's watching in the corner In the cup chair.
Speaker 1:Somebody's shitting on a table and Kim Basinger's underneath, jim.
Speaker 2:McMahon. Is there Jim McMahon, not Jim McMahon?
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. It would be funnier if jim mcmahon was also there, completely coincidentally, if jim mcmahon was also there with william the refrigerator perry, who's taking on a shit I take a shit on his table.
Speaker 2:He's like the last time I went to the strip club, whereas it's like midnight and the girls are dancing and there's like maybe a handful of guys watching, but there's like I don't know 10, 15 guys just eating McDonald's at Brighton and watching SportsCenter. That's about right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, that's what they say Strip clubs, where a kid can be a kid. You know, get your kid on. I went to a strip club the week of leading up to Mardi Gras in New Orleans and a bunch of Pelicans players came in and then I got really bored and went back to the hotel room and the dude that I went there with stayed because he was going to get a lap dance and I was like, all right, whatever, I'm out. I was broke and I didn't care. So I went back to the hotel room and we were on Bourbon Street. We had a fucking loft on Bourbon Street with a balcony. Wow, yeah, it was awesome.
Speaker 1:But he shows up at like six in the morning, he walks into the room and then, just, I was asleep, so I don't exactly know what scenario was happening with his state of undress at the beginning, but he just throws his hands up in the air, of course, immediately his pants fall to the ground and he's completely nude and he goes. Hey, I got a blowjob from a stripper, huh. And then I rolled over and went back to sleep. So that's what happened, did he?
Speaker 2:pay for it. Oh yeah, oh, okay, how much does that run you.
Speaker 1:Oh it, oh yeah, oh okay. How much does that run you? Oh, let me go find out, I have no fucking clue. Give a call, give a call Come on. Alright, here we go. You have no idea, Sir. We've never met before. Is that correct? That's correct, sir. You're wearing a fake mustache and glasses.
Speaker 2:My name's Jim Jam. I know nothing of this human life.
Speaker 1:I'm a simple white ghoulie. I have no idea.
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm just getting my albino on. What's the deal?
Speaker 1:I will be surprised if you know where I'm going with this at the beginning. So here we go. Born in Colorado in 1921, robert Probst initially studied chemical engineering in college, but then, halfway through the program, he dropped out and began studying the fine arts. He began his career in the late 1940s as a graphic artist, a teacher and a sculptor man after my own heart. In the early 1950s, probst was designing concrete playground equipment, which sounds choice. Is there a more 1950s thing than concrete playground equipment?
Speaker 2:I'm just imagining, you know like you get on a hippo and it's got a spring and it bounces back and forth, but it's all just concrete. Yeah, it's like no, you get on that hippo and you enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Concrete, but where are all the?
Speaker 2:rusty nails.
Speaker 1:Hey look, kid, it's called Bag O' Glass. Yeah, how are you going to get giant splinters from concrete? Oh look, plastic bag. I'm Johnny Spaceman. I'm Johnny Human Torch. A bag of sulfuric acid. This included a play sculpture called the Child Volcano. Oh, what I will? I'm just going to leave that there. Feel free to look that up later. It's because it's pretty funny. Let your imagination run wild with that one. Now, despite that, he wouldn't be remembered for that work. He was actually considered empathetic, a serial problem solver and an unorthodox thinker. A serial problem solver Okay. An unorthodox thinker. A serial problem Okay. Does he solve serial problems? Uh yeah, mostly post, but some general mills. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:You don't fuck around with the mills, general or otherwise.
Speaker 1:Now, in fact, probst would find purchase as a prolific inventor who was in fact credited with over 120 inventions that were designed to make the everyday lives of people better. He drew on his independence and frustration with inefficiency to attack problems. So in 1953, he formed the Probst Company not just a clever name a Denver-based firm specializing in speculative product development. Some of the ambitious creations he pioneered included a card-operated magnetic door lock, the stacking pallet, which Warehouse has used to this day, a trash collection management and disposal system, a vehicle towing system, the wall-mounted storage locker, the white noise generator what yeah, the white noise generator? What yeah? A vertical timber harvester, a quality control system for making concrete and an electronic tagging and identification system for livestock I know it's all over the place for kids.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly so. It's so stupid, like elastic bands, kids on, basically kids on leashes.
Speaker 2:You see, it's a see them all Backpacks that look like animals but you attach a leash to it.
Speaker 1:You can put a cat in. This system included a pistol that would shoot powdered asbestos through a stencil onto the side of a cow and special infrared glasses so you could see the animal's ID number, because the asbestos would pop out, I guess. Is it going to stay there forever? Yes, it was essentially a tattoo.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, all right. So I'm just trying to think this through. He has a gun. Oh, you should see the diagram. Okay, I'm just going to type in asbestos gun and see what comes up.
Speaker 1:I don't think that's going to come up with what you want, but if you do this you might find you come across the guy I'm talking about First thing that comes up micro phaser.
Speaker 2:Whoa cool, the asbestos analyzer.
Speaker 1:Well, see, the thing is, nobody really implemented this because they eventually just went to that RFID tagging system on their ear, or, even before that, just the plastic printed number system that they tag on livestock. So his thing never really caught on, it didn't matter, okay.
Speaker 2:What I then came to is Acrobat's asbestos gun, carl Zante from Earth 616. The Acrobat's asbestos gun was gun carried by the Acrobat that could shoot liquid asbestos. He used it on the human torch to douse his flame after conning him into robbing the Glenville Bank.
Speaker 1:Ironically did nothing for the fire. He died of cancer 30 years later.
Speaker 2:Well, he was a robot, so it didn't really matter.
Speaker 1:No, I mean the Human Torch.
Speaker 2:No, I mean the. I think it was the Robot Human Torch.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's why you don't hear. That's why Johnny Storm filled that gap. Man, that void. There's a power vacuum. Ironically, the original Human Torch would only become a flame if he wasn't in a vacuum. So that's how it worked. We know too much about this stuff. What a conundrum. In the early 1960s, probst also initiated research into the troubled state of patient care in hospitals. I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I will say this His care in hospitals.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't like that. I will say this His heart was always in the right place. He meant this very sincerely.
Speaker 2:It was just made of asbestos and concrete.
Speaker 1:It was, he was. It was just bored on the outside of his body, but it was in the right place. See, at this point, obviously, hospitals were cold and sterile and not in the way they're supposed to be sterile, and Probst sought to tackle thebeing of the infirm. So he collaborated on the creation of one of the earliest heart pumps, but it wasn't his sole invention. He was better known for creating what at the time was called the Co-Slash-Struck system, which was a streamlined hospital services system with mobile and modular containers, carts, frames and rails. This is essentially what every hospital uses, standard.
Speaker 1:So the idea of the crash cart, the idea of the gurney that bends up and down. He created all of that the rails along the walls so the infirm can move around. All of that was him, and it's very much in his style, because he didn't just make a device or an object or a thing. He would create an entire ecosystem that these things would function in to facilitate the entire concept of the thing he was trying to reinvent. And that was his hallmark, and he was a genius in so many ways for doing so. It also ended up being his not downfall, but his Oppenheimer moment. In a weird analogy. This system also included the folding hospital bed that's. I mean, that's kind of a big deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, later on he would create a mobile office for the quadriplegic. Long before the AMA, he was doing a lot of if they asked me anything that he did he was doing a lot of work in helping to aid with for lack of a better word the disabled. Now, switching gears just slightly. The Herman Miller Furniture Company had become known as a forward-thinking designer of innovative and modern furniture that moved away from the reproductions of antique styles that dominated the industry at the time. From the reproductions of antique styles that dominated the industry at the time. To this day, they remain known as one of the defining pioneers of what we now call mid-century mod aesthetic. They came up with some awesome shit, so think about the later seasons of Mad Men. That's all the Herman Miller Furniture Company.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:So in 1960, Herman Miller, the company, created the Herman Miller Research Corporation, a subdivision, placing the new organization under the supervision of George Nelson.
Speaker 1:No relation, I'm sure with day to day activities directed by Robert Probst, michigan. Probst and the Miller Research Corporation were located in Ann Arbor, placing it in close proximity to the University of Michigan campus, because it was a lot easier for him to access resources to do research on campus and access to a lot of, I'm sure, really really cheap labor. The Herman Miller Research Corporation's mission was not to address problems with furniture itself, but to solve problems related to the use of furniture, which was right up Probst's alley. Their focus, the outdated system known as the bullpen See. For years office workers had labored in large open spaces filled with rows of metal or wooden desks. Executives were the only lucky schmucks that had private offices that could get out of the way of all the typewriters going off and the cigarette smoke and the telephone ringing off the hook and all that kind of bullshit that characterized a busy open office, and as a result of that privacy they were considered more productive. This is an excerpt from HenryFordorg which I tried to get over to.
Speaker 1:I omitted all the anti-Semitic stuff. I'll just say that Probst wasn't always a designer of quote unquote things, but of situations. He attacked issues from the reverse, finding clues in the algorithms of human behavior working in high stakes spaces. And in Probst's mind, bullpen offices had become pure chaos. And in Probst's mind, bullpen offices had become pure chaos, cobbled together furniture, uncomfortable chairs and a struggle to incorporate new and emerging technologies into the workplace. The physical solutions he engineered encouraged ideas of access, mobility and efficiency. His modular approach to the office landscapes was intended to have what they refer to as a 1 plus one equals three effect. Which is to say not possible, no, no. Which is to say that by implementing physical change quote knowledge workers could then springboard off of an improved relationship with their workspaces, which were suddenly more hospitable to launching new ideas, productive workflows and transformative projects. He basically did what every fucking tech startup has been trying to do for the last 30 years, but this was in the 1960s. So his solution the Action Office.
Speaker 2:Whoa Does it come with a Kung Fu grip?
Speaker 1:I was going to say Action Office figures sold separately.
Speaker 2:Hatred for the Jews sold separately.
Speaker 1:Office figures sold separately, hatred for the juice sold separately. This was an office layout that relied on lightweight sitting and standing desks. This was standing desks and filing systems. Acoustical panels would help insulate workers from the noise of telephone calls and typing, but not close them off from everyone else. It was the world's first open plan office system, a bold departure from the fixed assumptions of what office furniture should be.
Speaker 1:With Action Office, probst created a workspace solution that would fit the way people really worked. It was designed as a set of components that could be combined and recombined to become whatever an office needed over time. Now, the new system included plenty of work surfaces, display shelves, partitions, which were intended to improve privacy, and places to pin up work. The action office even included varying desk levels to enable employees to work part-time standing up, thereby encouraging blood flow and staving off exhaustion. The designs were modular, often set up at 30-degree angles from workspace to workspace. It was like this weird cool lattice thing. It was meant to humanize the experience of office work, thus increasing efficiency. The result Executives hated it To them, luxury belonged to them, but also they wanted to pack as many people into a workspace as they possibly could. Nobody bought the action office. So in 1968, four years after the creation of the action office, he premiered the action office 2 electric boogaloo I was waiting for that.
Speaker 1:Yes, probes, as I was writing it, I'm like he's gonna say electric here and then the reckoning.
Speaker 2:How about that?
Speaker 1:no, no, it's not a bad thing. I was just like somebody's gonna say it here. It is probes. Goal for action office 2 was to be a flexible system to encourage what he called fortuitous encounters which is one of the shadier parts of Craigslist, trust me Spontaneous conversation, idea sharing and so forth. Sadly, this made it possible for companies to create a grid system of closed off workspaces and cram a whole hell of a lot of employees into a relatively small area. This would forever be known as the cubicle. So, as the American dream has become the elusive brass ring, the conditions and foibles of toiling in the American workforce have shifted, as have our fears and anxieties. Increasingly. Our jobs grind us down, with everything from physical labor to constant content creation.
Speaker 1:The capitalist and neoliberal project was and is a coordinated effort to dismantle the progressive gains of the working class made in the early to mid 20th century, specifically but not limited to the New Deal, which lifted the entire country out of the depths of the Great Depression.
Speaker 1:That massive undertaking, along with the unionization of labor, the forced implementation of workers' rights and safety regulation, helped close the gap between the cartoonishly rich and the desperately poor, created a middle class, improved the material conditions of most Americans and allowed for the concept of retirement with a capital R.
Speaker 1:This, of course, sparked a vicious backlash of the haves, starting with violence and shifting to the far more effective manipulation of the cultural consciousness. The upper classes villainized social programs and organized labor, all while gutting legal protections, then gaslighting those most harmed by their actions, to the extent that the lower and working classes have shifted from the left to the right, despite the direct implications such policies and business practices have on their living conditions. Wage theft, exploitation and, in some cases, actual slavery have become the norm over the last few decades. That, combined with the intentionally stagnated pay, increased cost of living, the gig work loophole and the lack of affordable housing due to robber baron behavior of investment firms, has led to the bleak realization that, to the American worker, this is all you are and this is all you will ever be. Now that having been said, we are going to explore today the increasingly relevant genre of workplace horror, oh, I was like wow, I think that's where this is going.
Speaker 1:Yep, I had to get it all in. I had to get all of the commentary in no, that was a fascinating journey. I spent all day writing that.
Speaker 1:What an interesting story, what an interesting guy that led to what we have now, in so many ways and he was literally the exact opposite of what he was trying to achieve, to the extent where, during the implementation of things like cubicles in that kind of work environment, productivity plummeted, employee satisfaction with their jobs plummeted. It created this general malaise that became famous throughout american culture and only recently have some companies on the whole moved back to open plan workspaces because it just doesn't work and it grinds your people to the bone, which is where this genre came from. Combine that with the Reaganist gestalt of the 80s and it is a horror show. So specifically for this, mostly due to sheer number and quantifiable criteria, we're going to focus on horror in the office. Okay, and I did that for a specific reason it's a lot easier to quantify office horror than it is just workplace horror.
Speaker 2:Workplace is anything.
Speaker 1:Exactly. That's why I had to like really narrow the scope here, but when I did that, I realized there are actually very, very, very common criteria that most of them follow, and so it was really easy to create a, to define a subgenre here. These stories are unique in part because the same elements that make them terrifying are also prime for comedy, fantasy and action. I mean, look at Die Hard, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the office setting is infamous for monotony, the soul crushing lack of upward mobility, claustrophobia and the feeling of loneliness, even in a building full of people, being surrounded by peers without real connection, all equally trapped in their own spaces, is a strange kind of isolation.
Speaker 2:God, you just like describe severance in like two lines. You know.
Speaker 1:That is exactly what I'm getting at. Yes, I'm sorry. No, no, we're going to talk about Severance. Yes, because that is a primo example of that show. That is a classic office horror in general.
Speaker 1:Coming to realize that the sum total of our lives boiled down to a handful of menial tasks carried out again and again ad infinitum is its own brand of horror, suffered daily. Many offices have bureaucratic hierarchies, often physically stratified, which seem to be scaled not by merit but by actions and motives that feel intuitively oxymoronic in being petty, backstabbing, pandering, nepotistic, childish or cutthroat Things that feel antithetical to the buttoned down, rigid structure of the whole damn thing. In the loneliness and monotony it allows space for the imagination to go unchecked. It can eat away at your sense of safety. For instance, when working late at night, the hum of the photocopier can become ominous whispers. The creaking of chairs can sound like the stalking of predators. When they fill the eerie silence of deserted workspaces, flickering fluorescent lights cast shadows down empty corridors, inhuman shapes lurking around ample corners. A perceived change in the physical environment leaves you uneasy on edge. Wasn't that chair pushed in before Now?
Speaker 1:According to TV Tropes, workplace horror is a subgenre of horror where someone who's just trying to do their job may find themselves in mortal danger, while supernatural and sometimes not so supernatural entities are trying to kill them. Why the character doesn't just quit their job is usually not explained or as hand-waved as the character really needing the money. I think that is a no for simplification and I don't think that's fair. But that's what TV Trope says. It goes on to say the character will usually try to continue doing their work tasks even as it gets harder and harder for them to survive. It may be the first day from hell. There may be a demon slowly possessing them or a homicidal animatronic hunting them. I think they're very specifically talking about shopping mall, or I mean, what else is that? I mean come on, or or westworld, one of the two, or a stalker closing in on them, but the floors aren't going to sweep themselves.
Speaker 1:Now here's the criteria I used for this evaluation. I tried to narrow it down to just three basic ones because it's a pretty big genre. One the horror is based around the malaise of working in an office setting. Otherwise any movie that deals with I don't deals with a laboratory would count. Two the horror takes place in an office. Otherwise you could count elevator horror or swimming with sharks, for instance. And we've already covered elevator horror. So I tried really hard not to include elevator specific ones because while they take place, often in your workspace or whatever, it is its own subgenre, as we've proven before. And three, the horror is relatively contained within said office.
Speaker 1:So the origin of this genre is a little vague, especially since the modern office, like I said, is a relatively new phenomenon, but the oldest one that I could find because a lot of it stems from the whole Reagan era. There aren't a lot of things that I could really pin down in this very specific subgenre before the 1980s. Now there are some that you might be able to fit in, but I don't think really count. But the earliest one that I could think of that might count. So in 1983, there was the Lift, which we already talked about in the Elevator Horror, and I kind of eliminated that one in general for that very reason. And then in 1988, there's I saw some lists put. What is that? That Nicolas Cage vampire movie?
Speaker 2:Vampire's.
Speaker 1:Kiss, vampire's Kiss, in there I'm like I don't really consider that one either. It's almost kind of a comedy kind of, but that's mostly because Nicolas Cage is just unhinged, but this one actually it doesn't really happen in an office.
Speaker 2:I mean he has his own office, he's like a lawyer or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he office is like a lawyer or whatever. Yeah, he's an executive essentially, and so like. That's the only thing that ties it together. Now, but the only thing I could really find was dark tower from 1987, in which a partially under construction office tower is being haunted by a deadly presence. This movie's got kevin mccarthy, the one from the original invasion of the body snatchers, and michael moriarty, the great michael moriarty. Yeah, that one is probably the earliest one I could think of that really fits a lot of these criteria. So, yeah, I mean that probably is one of the earlier. I don't even think it's related to that influential on the genre itself.
Speaker 2:I mean, I personally had never heard of it before. It does have a cool poster, it does. There's a lot of people outside, outside and they're walking towards this building, but as the building like starts out, normal building, but as it goes up it turns into a coffin, yeah. And then there's like ghostbusters, storms above it or fright night, yeah yeah, it's very john carpenter.
Speaker 1:Looking on the surface it obviously doesn't have very high ratings. It's not very. It's got a six percent on rottenten Tomatoes. There's a good metric there. If you're going to watch it, okay, fine, don't go complaining to me afterwards but skip. But over the decades I'd say the last 40 years, this or at least 35 years that subgenre has become well-defined comparatively and we will talk about some possibilities that might fit in, some exceptions that don't fit in, but a lot of people lump them into some ones that are worth discussing. That, you know, may change your idea of what the criteria should be. But it's not a complete list, but this is a basic list of some of the diverse films and stories and TV shows that fit into this sub-genre. We're defining here Number one and honestly I think number one with a bullet, to be perfectly honest the Belko experiment.
Speaker 2:Hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay. Written and produced by James Gunn the movie presents a twisted social experiment where 80 Americans are locked in their high-rise corporate office in Bogota, colombia, and ordered by an unknown voice from the company's intercom system to participate in a deadly game of kill or be killed, and seeing how, basically, it's Lord of the Flies, but with adults in an office building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I felt like it was kind of coming off the heels of some other gory action elements and they wanted to spice things up using office equipment to murder each other. Is this number one for being the most?
Speaker 1:The most identifiable in this genre. I think the easiest one to just point to and go that's office horror. Yes, Right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I yes. Everybody's in their khakis and button down shirts. They get thrust into this scene where they have to kill each other with the office equipment that they have on hand. They cannot leave, they're stuck and there's obviously Reagan-esque corporate overlord who's forcing them to do this. Right? But as you can see, just like in Lord of the Flies, it kind of sparks some things in some people, letting out their inner monster to be expressed.
Speaker 1:The idea is that it's a social experiment, I think is it plays on a lot of the fears people have working in an office like that, with the monotony and the mundaneness of everyday life, that this can't be it, that if this is what you're supposed to do, but things are this bad and miserable, then somebody and something nefarious has to be pulling the strings. I think that's a very potent thread actually through a lot of these, and most of it is just capitalist critique and it's obviously not quite the same thing, but it's a similar critique that Platform has. It's not the same genre, but it's the same kind of commentary in a way. Another example would be Did you like the Belko experiment?
Speaker 1:It's a fun watch, I mean it mean it's. You know, I don't think it's like the best movie in the world or anything, but it's like oh, okay, right, well, especially after I watched a couple of really bad ones in this genre, I'm like well, this movie is head and shoulders above a lot of these other movies. You know, it's snappy, it's self-contained, it's easy to understand. There aren't a lot of logical fallacies, there isn't a lot of inconsistency with it. With a lot of these, the motivations are weird or the conditions under which certain things happen are unbelievable, or there's just real problems with the entire premise. You know, this one at least, it's kind of cut and dry. You get it, and for that reason I'm like, oh, it's a fun watch, that's fine, you. For that reason I'm like, oh, it's a fun watch, that's fine. You know, I mean, it's not even one of Gunn's best movies, but it's like alright.
Speaker 2:He didn't direct it for one.
Speaker 1:He just wrote it, right? I mean no, but I was also including, like you know, dawn of the Dead, which is one of his best written movies. He just produced and wrote it. Yeah, but nowadays he'd probably write direct.
Speaker 2:I was looking at my review from at the time. Man, I hated it Really. I don't know if I have such a loathing now for it. It's just kind of there. I don't really think about it or anything. But I really hated it then.
Speaker 1:Well, it is mean-spirited and that I think you and I both kind of like moved kind of an aversion for that. But watching that one and then a lot of these other ones, I'm like no, it's actually pretty competent, because some of these are just terrible, unwatchably bad. A lot of it is just sort of edgelordy incel revenge fantasies.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or people just don't understand that capitalism is the problem and a lot of them are just like ill-conceived or doing it for shock value more than they are for an actual commentary. So belko experiment at least felt like a self-contained thought. It felt like a oh, that's a movie. It did its thing. It's in this genre. There you go. You know. It definitely quality wise is better than a lot of these. Now there are some better ones, for sure, but that one is just like if you wanted to point to one and go, hey, go watch that, that is an office horror movie, then it would work, it would make sense.
Speaker 2:I mean it is extremely fitting of the genre. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Another one starring the mercurial Pedro Pascal Blood Sucking Bastards.
Speaker 2:This one I haven't seen. I'm aware of it, but I've never got around to it.
Speaker 1:In this one, a down-on-his-luck cubicle worker and his slacker best friend discover their new boss is actually literally a vampire who's turning their co-workers into the undead. It was directed by Brian James O'Connell and it stars Fran Kranz. That's an unfortunate name.
Speaker 2:Pedro Pascal and Joey Kern. Fran Kranz you might remember from Cabin in the Woods as being the stoner brother.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, you're, right, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2:He also made a really good film, Mass, that he wrote and directed. Really good film from 2021. I don't think.
Speaker 1:I've seen that one.
Speaker 2:No, I, I mean it's a small little like, it's only four people and it's like the parents of a mass shooter and the parents of a victim of a mass shooting. That mass shooting they have, they get together and talk about it oh right, I've heard of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never seen it. But yeah, okay, this one. I mean, basically all you have to know is the premise of this movie and you get the movie. If you've seen anything in this genre, you can kind of guess the story beats pretty easily.
Speaker 2:I wonder if the vampirism is I don't know some type of metaphor for corporate greed? What?
Speaker 1:Jacob break a new ground here. This is unprecedented.
Speaker 2:I'm just poking, I'm just you know, like I'm just poking at the thing just seeing what, what, uh, what oars out right.
Speaker 1:I mean it's fine because pedro pascal actually kind of he's selling it and he's, you know he's working, you know he's doing his thing because he's pedro pascal and that's fine. It's a movie, it's the same commentary, it's the same thing and it's a little on the nose because they're vampires.
Speaker 1:So you're like, okay, which is fine, it's not terrible or anything, it's just you know, now this is the one that I, when I saw it, I was like wow, this wants to be the belko experiment so badly and fails on almost every fucking level. It's a movie called mayhem, directed by joe lynch, starring stephen yuen, who was in the early days of the Walking Dead, samara Weaving and Stephen Brand. Now this movie. In it, they already presupposed that in the world there is a highly contagious virus. It's basically the rage virus in 28 Days Later, but everybody seems fine with that and there are no precautions taken. This virus almost destroyed the entire world in the weird exposition dump they do at the beginning.
Speaker 2:Well, isn't there a thing where, because they're working at this office, who cares what's going on in the outside world? You got to do your job. I mean, it's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't think that's actually a big part of the motivation.
Speaker 1:To be perfectly honest, it's more just of a plot device. Okay, so what it is is they use this virus thing instead of the in the belko experiment, where they give you the explanation of why they're doing what they're doing in such a violent manner. They use this as a mcguffin. It doesn't advance the plot other than as a plot device. It's not the important part of anything that happens in the movie as far as lessons learned or commentary made. In fact it kind of distracts from the commentary they're trying to make. So in it somebody comes down with this virus, this rage virus thing, and it causes them to basically go into the comic book crossed where they have no inhibitions. Right In it it's this guy he's just kind of a middling dude in a law firm who was the first law firm to successfully defend a client afflicted with this virus who murdered a guy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:By saying that he is not culpable because of this affliction, which okay, fine, whatever. But then in this world you would think that there would be some sort of law or mandate or or cdc restrictions or something that would make it like, okay, we don't want other people just randomly murdering innocent people, so so wear a mask or something. There's none of that. None of it exists in this world. In fact, the way it starts out it seems to be at war with itself, because the way it starts out it's almost like this weird, like libertarian right wing commentary about how all defense lawyers are evil because they let the guilty get away with everything. Evil because they let the guilty get away with everything. But then at the same time it's also this stinging commentary on corporate hierarchy and capitalism. It doesn't really seem to know what planet it's on and, honestly, the virus thing only comes into play when they want it to, because the entire premise was that these people are out of control, like literally cannot be controlled, cannot control their inhibitions. But there are huge swaths of the movie where the main characters, who are both infected, are just like hanging out, doing logical, rational things, making deals with each other or with other people. I thought they weren't infected. No, they're both infected. Everyone's infected by the end, but especially by the time the actual like revenge rampage thing goes on. That's why it starts, because they're all infected, including the higher ups, which is dumb. Because what is the commentary? If you've already maintained that this keeps you from being able to control yourself and you do the worst thing that you can do? Isn't it just giving them an excuse to be the way they are that you can do? Isn't it just giving them an excuse to to be the way they are, especially since, like then, on top of that, they do this weird thing where, like the, the main evil guy, he's got a cocaine addiction and that's why he's so out of control.
Speaker 1:I was like, well, I'm pretty sure the virus already took care of that, right, why does the cocaine matter at that point? The whole concept is a mess. If you try and take it logically, it doesn't work. It's got some fun stuff in it. I like some of the actors, but even the violence doesn't really make a lot of sense and just them because of kind of turning on and off. This mcguffin with no explanation doesn't work. I think if you wouldn't re-watched it, I think you'd have a lot of complaints about it, because it's like, because I remember it being dumb fun when I watched it originally sure, I mean there's some satisfactory like revenge against the corporate hierarchy, stuff, yeah, and it does hit on these buttons, these.
Speaker 1:I hate my co-workers, I'm gonna get revenge, you know, per my last email, type things I want to fuck this co-worker. I want to kill this co-worker, or punch this guy because he drinks too much or or like. One of the bigger things is the corporate headhunter, the corporate execution, the one that like goes, and he's the one that lays people off or fires them. What would you say?
Speaker 2:you do here.
Speaker 1:Yeah right, yes, except they set him up to be like a hitman. And he's actually a good actor too. I like that actor, but his arc is weird and that guy doesn't fit in with the whole virus thing either. It doesn't really. If it were like that one person was infected, like the main guy, that would be one thing, or if, like the main guy, was the only one not infected, that would be one thing. But they're all infected and they all behave differently in ways to contradict each other.
Speaker 2:And it's like because when you say it now I do remember like they had a plan.
Speaker 1:They're doing something.
Speaker 2:Yes, as opposed to some other people just seem to be rage sex monsters.
Speaker 1:Yes, and they are doing everything and anything they want, with no inhibitions. But these two formulate a plan. This is a transactional agreement that we have that you help me do this thing and I help you get revenge. No, isn't?
Speaker 2:Melanie Says, melanie comforts Derek and they have sex.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when you're going through the whole thing, right, when he's going through the levels of the office, everyone is fucking everybody, right, there's like no control, nobody has any control over their actions, right, but he, yes, they have sex. But then it's like, well, now let's go do this thing, and we're not going to like ever address that again. Or, and they're very controlled and very like logical, and everything's planned out methodically and executed methodically and it's like, but that's not the point. That's the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing and the exact opposite of the premise that you set up, so like if it were the thing where those were the only two not infected, that would make sense, which is, I think, why in my head they were the two that weren't.
Speaker 2:They were immune or didn't get exposed, but like looking online, it says everyone's infected.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it's a complete contradiction. I don't, I don't, it's kind of a mess, yeah, and then, and I think I disliked it because I wanted to like it, and then those things were like what the fuck is this? It just turned me off because if I could accept it, if I knew from the beginning that it didn't make sense. But the fact that they want you to think that it makes sense is really frustrating because it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Unless it was something where, if you were able to purge some of that stuff you can like, think clearly Sure. Which would then like give him a reason like I'm going to utilize this to go and kill my boss.
Speaker 1:Sure, if that were a subplot or just a plot device, fine. But they don't do that. Yeah, that were a subplot, or?
Speaker 2:just a plot device, fine, but they don't do that. Yeah, that's true, I don't remember them doing that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's why I like the belkin experiment more, because there's a logic to that, one that doesn't ever contradict itself, and I'm way better with that than going like what. What is happening? Why is this happening?
Speaker 2:right and I think I I felt that one was a little too. It was very serious. Uh, it was a bit more of like a horror kind of thing and it was very torture-y based on the kills, as opposed to this, which has some of that stuff Same, utilizing the office for kills and whatnot.
Speaker 1:But it's meant to be funnier, more playful and action-y, even though the Belkin experiment is also meant to be funny. It is a dark, dark comedy, but it's not meant to be like laugh out loud funny. It's more satirical, which I I do appreciate that, because that's kind of what I want out of the genre either be really serious or give me sort of like a premise. You understand if there is a joke or not, you know. Like then I then I'm like okay, fine, but don't give me this, this logical thing that you set up, and and then completely contradict it over and over and over again. That just doesn't work for me. I have a hard time getting into movies like that because it's like what's the point? What are you saying? It feels like two different people made the movie. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It just doesn't work Now, and this one is one that I included because I like it. I think it's actually pretty good, and I am on the fence on whether it belongs in this or elevator horror, and we actually might have talked about it in our episode about elevator horror. It's a, I want to say I think it's german. It's a movie called the end question mark. Oh, it's no, it's spanish. It's spanish, that's right.
Speaker 1:Um, in it, claudio is a businessman and he's going to an important meeting when his elevator gets stuck. It's seems to be just a technical difficulty, but it turns out that it's a catastrophe. The power is going in and out because, as information is trickling in on his phone, it turns out that a zombie virus is broken out. The entire world is falling apart and he now has to try to get out of the elevator, which is stuck between floors, so partially on one floor and partially in another, and that situation is the only thing keeping him from being eaten by zombies. But also, getting out of that is the only way he could possibly survive. Yeah, so I actually liked that one when I saw it. I've seen it a couple of times, accidentally, I think.
Speaker 1:As far as a modern zombie flick, at least it was something. Yeah, I liked it. It was directed by Danielle Mishisha Mishisha. It stars Alessandro Roja, roberto Scotty, so Scotto, scotto, so not Scotty, this is the singular Scotto. And Pagliera Benedetta, camitti, benedetta. Yeah, it is on the border of elevator, but the whole thing it doesn't all take place in the elevator, so it does all take place in the office building. So I'm kind of like, okay, I can kind of fit that one in there, but it is on the fence for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, having not seen it, I think you would probably need some metaphors, you know, like is that him going up and getting stuck as he's like trying to do this meeting Life is stuck, his corporate journey is stuck. Are the zombies a metaphor for the corporate world, or Right, I mean, I don't.
Speaker 1:So one of the things I think we tackled a little bit in the elevator horror subgenre episode we did one of the criteria is that the elevator itself has to be an element of the horror, or a cause or a, um like a, an integral part of what causes the horror scenario. Yeah, in this one the elevator is not coincidental because it's a huge part of the plot, but it's not the cause of the horror. It's actually kind of his salvation and initially, and so you know, it's kind of like the whole how we decide what's a Christmas movie or not.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Is that part of the plot of the thing in that it advances whatever horror element they're using? I would say no, because the office place setting is the horror setting, not the elevator itself. And I think you can make some similar arguments to paul w sanderson's resident evil in that sense, because that is all technically in a office kind of underground bunker. But still.
Speaker 2:But I mean, I I don't know any office buildings that have uh laser grids that slice you up but. I haven't worked in an office for a while, so what do I?
Speaker 1:know that's fair. Now, neither of us have worked in an office situation in a while, so no it. No, it's hard to tell Things change.
Speaker 2:You know how the corporate.
Speaker 1:you know Another one.
Speaker 2:it would be exam I saw just through a cursory search, this one popped up. It looked interesting.
Speaker 1:The premise is fascinating Eight candidates for a highly desirable corporate job are locked together in an exam room and given a final test with just one seemingly simple question. However, it doesn't take long for confusion to ensue and tensions to unravel. Once again, it seems more like a social experiment type of thing. It's like when the Joker breaks the fucking pool cues and is like we're holding tryouts. That's essentially the premise. It's directed by Stuart Hazeldine and it stars Adar Beck, Gemma Chan and Natalie Cox. There's also a movie called Office Uprising, and this one I hate it. I have seen it. I think it sucks. Why? Why is that In this one, an employee at a weapons factory discovers that an energy drink turns his co-workers into zombies. Okay, yeah, I don't like it.
Speaker 1:No, it sucks. Oh, it's a Crackle original Great. Yes, exactly, it's a bunch of cheap gags. There's no real commentary to it. It's supposed to be comedy horror, but it's not funny. It's just a limp dick of a fucking horror movie man. It's just not good. It's directed by Lynn Oding and it stars Britton Thwaites, jane Levy and Karen Soni. Don't forget Zachary Levi there.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right, he's the evil boss. Well, that fits.
Speaker 1:It's true. Yeah, that kind of works. Then there's one, and this one is intriguing. I don't Wait, no, no, no. Actually, this, at least the premise is interesting. I haven't seen it, can't imagine. It's great quality, but in human resources, where six captive office workers are literally chained to their desks by a deranged former regional manager, thomas Redmond, otherwise known as Red, and he assigns his quote human resources to the impossible task of proving his innocence or suffering the gruesome consequences. I'm guessing he's being accused of something. This is just what I pulled from IMDb suffering the gruesome consequences. I'm guessing he's being accused of something. This is just what I pulled from IMDb. It's directed by Daniel Krieg and stars Nicholas Hope, kelly, paternity. Wow, that's an odd one, it can't be that.
Speaker 1:I mean, it could be P-A-T-E-R-N-I-T-I, paternity, yeah, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know how else you'd pronounce it. I mean, it doesn't have enough syllables. Patternini. It doesn't have much of a different Patternini. Maybe Maybe it's Patternini, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Panini.
Speaker 1:That sounds more Italian. It's Panini. That's what it is. It's Joe Paterno. How about that?
Speaker 2:And Sam Reed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that goes premise. Now here's a Korean film that I have not seen. It seemed really interesting. Don't know a whole lot about it. It's called Office. I know I'm sure it's called something else. In Korea, the investigating following a sales manager brutally killing his entire family leads to a track of mystery and tragedy in an overwhelmed work team in Seoul. The thing is, I don't know if the whole thing takes place in an office, so I'm kind of like eh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's tough to say, I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's directed by Won Chang Hong and it stars Ko Ah Sung, Lee Chae Eun and Kim Il Sung oh the director of that, wrote the Chaser and the Yellow Sea.
Speaker 2:Oh cool, deliver Us From, wrote the Chaser, and the Yellow Sea, oh cool. Deliver Us From Evil. That's some good stuff.
Speaker 1:Then there's a film called Not Safe For Work, and in this one it's Joe Johnston directed. This one, oh right, which I didn't know until I was looking into this but it stars Dan Bacadal and Michael Gladys and Max Mengele. Basically, an office worker is trapped inside the building where there's a killer on the loose.
Speaker 2:It's essentially just an office slasher, yeah which you don't really get as many as you'd expect. That seems you know place rife for that.
Speaker 1:But you would think being stalked in an office would be. Yeah, I mean, that would play on a lot of fears. You would think, right, especially like you're working late, you're the only people in the building, you know that kind of thing. But no, that's not, actually not very common in this genre, which, yeah, is surprising. One list put Spiral on here, the fucking Saw movie, and I'm like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that. What are you talking about I? What are you talking about? I saw a lot of people put P2 on these lists.
Speaker 1:I was going to get to that, because now it is at least. No, no, don't be, because that was on my maybe we'll get to it list, because that's fascinating. I don't think it counts. No, I think it's no. I think P2 is more in the line of, because I saw a lot of lists when I was looking this up, where they're like alien.
Speaker 2:I mean workplace, yes, Office no.
Speaker 1:No right, exactly that's the thing, if this is going to be a specific subgenre. Now, the whole underground parking garage thing is terrifying and that's a cool location, but that's no more an office horror than what's that? One from the chick from Run the Run, where she's in the subway, you know, with a monster chasing her. That one from the chick from Run Little Run where she's in the subway, you know, with a monster chasing her.
Speaker 2:It's just an enclosed space. She's in a subway, what's that?
Speaker 1:You haven't seen this one. I like that movie actually. I mean it's kind of a nothing movie, but it is a fun little horror piece. Horror action piece. The tunnel, is that it? Yeah, she's trying to survive.
Speaker 2:Francapotente.
Speaker 1:Yeah, franca Potente, what is?
Speaker 2:the.
Speaker 1:Creep looks right.
Speaker 2:Trapped in a London subway station, a woman who's been pursued by a potential attacker heads to the unknown labyrinth of tunnels beneath the city streets. Oh that's fun.
Speaker 1:It's ambiguous what it is that's actually following her.
Speaker 2:Oh, is Sean Harris the creature thing Huh.
Speaker 1:I like that one. But I mean, if P2 counts, huh, yeah, I like that one, but I mean like, if P2 counts, then that counts.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't count P2.
Speaker 1:I don't either. No, not at all.
Speaker 2:I mean, if it was the parking garage for a mall. How is it any different?
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, yeah, in fact, do they tell you what it's the parking garage to in P2? I don't even remember. I mean they probably do, but I just don't even fucking remember because it's not important.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's just like her office building parking garage and she goes in to work and then because, like Christmas Eve or whatever, again is it a Christmas movie. That's a good point. But then she starts getting stalked by someone.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, exactly. But the office place, the workplace, doesn't matter, because it's the garage that's important. So it could be her apartment building, it could be the mall, it could be it doesn't fucking matter. So it's not an office horror, it's not even really a workplace horror, it's just like yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just being in an enclosed space, it's just like yeah, I mean, technically it is part of her workplace and technically it's part of an office building, sure, but but those are just technicalities that don't fit for the genre.
Speaker 1:Those don't matter to the plot. Yeah, let's see. Okay, now here's one that I do not recommend watching to anyone. Okay, mostly because it's just fucking terrible and it's sad because of some of the people involved. It's a movie called nether beast, incorporated uh what starring daryl hammond and dave foley. What?
Speaker 2:yeah, okay, I gotta look this up.
Speaker 1:Nether beast incorporated yes, it is essentially blood-sucking bastards, but with daryl Hammond instead of Pedro Pascal.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a downgrade.
Speaker 1:Yep, and Dave Foley is one of the major like office guys, which is only funny if you like news radio. But other than that he's not good in it. Daryl Hammond is terrible in it. It's one of the dumbest slapsticky bullshit movies in this genre that has ever existed.
Speaker 2:Tagline on the poster is work bites.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sucks. That movie fucking sucks. I don't even know if I got all the way through it.
Speaker 2:Tell me how you really feel.
Speaker 1:You watch it and you tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to watch this, this is the bullet you took for the podcast. That's true.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna watch this exactly the bullet you took for the podcast.
Speaker 2:That's true I'm not catching strays on this one basically, that's all you can say about it.
Speaker 1:It's a slapstick version of blood-sucking bastards, but may or may not have quietly had favors done for them by lorne michaels. And that goes along with our next one, which I kind of put almost in the exact same category, a movie called Stalled, which also sucks, where a janitor gets trapped in a woman's restroom and encounters an all out attack by a horde of zombies. Yeah, that movie sucks, it's. It's directed by Kristen James and it stars Dan Palmer, antonia Barnath and Tamron Payne. It's just as lowbrow. It's basically like if paul blart was the mall cop in dawn of the dead hmm, great, but sans the whimsy.
Speaker 2:It's funny. It's just going through some of this list I found a movie that I have, but I haven't watched uh-huh oh, really called executive koala. That's funny, because that did come up too. I just didn't even list. I found a movie that I have, but I haven't watched. Uh-huh, oh, really Called Executive Koala.
Speaker 1:That's funny, because that did come up too. I just didn't even bother looking at it. No.
Speaker 2:I've had that film for a long time, just like waiting to watch it with somebody. But nobody wants to watch Executive Koala with me.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll do it for those reasons. For sure, we could do an online watch party. That's fine. An online watch party, that's fine.
Speaker 2:I don't know how much murder actually happens in the office space.
Speaker 1:But the fact that it's called Executive Koala and murder happens is already kind of enticing. I'm intrigued. Yeah, a murder is not the top of the list of things that I would anticipate happening in that film. That's like if Kangaroo Jack was secretly about a serial killer, now I might see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've seen some of this guy's other Minoru Kawasaki, uh-huh, he does some interesting stuff, sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did God. What is this? Is it the Calamari?
Speaker 1:Wrestler.
Speaker 2:I've seen that one Classic. He's a squid, you know, and he's wrestling.
Speaker 1:So either he's a squid or he's wrestling squid, either way oh oh shit, I watched that too.
Speaker 2:I forgot I watched this man.
Speaker 1:I'm fucking sick in the head watching some of this stuff hey, man, I feel that game, I understand that completely macho business, donkey wrestler crab goalkeeper was this other one I watched crab goalkeeper or yeah, yeah, they find a crab and they, they teach him.
Speaker 2:I mean he grows life size, uh, I mean like human size, and he gets into soccer and he's the goalkeeper and then just plays out like sports.
Speaker 1:crab goalkeeper and calamari wrestler are definitely some of the most underrated b-sides to the B-52s. You really should check them out if you can find them on vinyl, especially Crab Goalkeeper. And then I think the last one that I was going to use as a sort of an example seemed really intriguing. It's a movie called Fired. It's a character that is. I'm pretty sure that the character in Mayhem is based on this character, but the premise is that, after firing 121 employees, the CEO, joe Mittal, is tormented and terrorized by ghostly apparitions during a late night at the office. This is a British movie. It's directed by Sajid Warrier and it stars Rahul Bose, dinesh Lama and Nassar Abdullah.
Speaker 2:So I think it's actually an Indian production, but filmed in England. It's filmed in Britain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a little confused at the beginning too.
Speaker 2:Because it's like Hindi is the language.
Speaker 1:Right, but that's why I put British at the end and it was like okay, it is british, but don't be confused. Obviously this is in no way shape or form a comprehensive list. In fact, you could probably put a hundred movies up here like this, and I'm not even going to go through the premise of some of these, but one of them that should be looked into more is a movie called z office. I'm pretty sure that's korean as well. Yeah, that one seemed interesting, but I did not do enough research on it to to make sort of Are there any calamari in there?
Speaker 1:Are there squid-based Only, if you imagineer it. Then there's one called New Guy. Didn't seem all that interesting. Scherzo Diabolico is one I tried to get into, some international ones, end of Days Incorporated, and then, of course, a movie called Office Invasion, which is essentially the same kind of premise as some of those other comedy ones, but about an alien invasion instead.
Speaker 2:You know one thing I find with a lot of these is they tend to veer towards the dark humor of it, yes, and I think that's because of the bleak nature of office life in general.
Speaker 1:And I think that's because of the bleak nature of office life in general and because a lot of people and like I said earlier, it's because, like, this genre also is great in comedy, it works for the office, it works for office space, it's a good comedy subgenre as well. And so I think some people either don't know how to handle that or people assume that some audiences don't know how to receive it because they're looking for comedy and they're getting horror or something, or they're trying to toe the line. I'm not really sure. But yeah, you're right, they usually skew comedic. Obviously not all. In fact, most of the best ones are not in any way, shape or form. But then of course there is Severance. Hey, we talked about that the movie. We talked about that the movie. Oh, we didn't talk about that. We didn't talk about that. I put them both on here. I just thought it was funny.
Speaker 1:So Severance, the movie, I love At least I did the last time I saw it. It goes against my criteria a tiny bit because instead of taking place within an office, it's a corporate retreat, while still self-contained with the office workers in the retreat. It follows a lot of the same tropes. It's a basic premise, just not in the literal office. So I didn't put it on the main list. But it does follow almost all the criteria and it's a good movie. It's got a great twist in it which happens relatively early on and it starts out you think comedy, but then goes dark oh well, tying back.
Speaker 2:It's done by christopher smith who, who did that creep movie you were talking about with oh yeah, run lady.
Speaker 1:He also did black death and triangle triangle is the american poor man's time crimes. But you know there aren't a lot of great time travel movies. You got like Primer Time Crimes and then really basically Triangle.
Speaker 2:It's been on the list. I still haven't gotten to it.
Speaker 1:Now I will not put it on the level of Time Crimes or Primer, but considering that it's a mainstream Hollywood movie that kind of follows along those type of stories and has some good twists in it, yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 2:Did a film called Get Santa, where Jim Broadbent plays Santa Claus.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:With Rafe Spall and Ewan Bremmer and Warwick Davis and Stephen Graham.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:I'll watch it this holiday season for you.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, we'll check that out for sure, okay. And then, of course, severance, the TV show which is the most contemporary and probably the creme de la creme of this genre.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's absolutely brilliant, mind-bending science fiction horror about losing one's identity, about signing away one's identity for a chance to work in the corporate world or for the necessity of working in the corporate world. It's very much about invasion of privacy, corporate overlords, and it's also about greed and hierarchy and capitalism. It's a great psychological science fiction horror thriller show, and so there's more coming out, which is great, so 100% recommend. Yeah, probably the best of this genre.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and maybe one of the best TV shows in the past, oh, the last few years for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Adam Scott's probably his best work, honestly, and I mean because he's I love him as a comedian, but like this is, this is great yeah there are a couple of ones that I never really thought of, because they are more of workplace horror than they are office horror, but they're kind of fun to think about in that sense. For instance, the thing no, no, it's not an office horror, but it is a workplace horror yeah, it is not true.
Speaker 1:They're kind of fun to think about in that sense. For instance, the Thing no, no, it's not an office horror, but it is a workplace horror. Yeah, it is, that's true. It's not at all an office horror, but it's definitely that, just like I said, just like with Alien, just like with the Lighthouse, even though that is not the commentary they're trying to make. So there's no point in trying to lump that into anything. Because I into anything, because I don't know what office order has to do with prometheus, but it has it. Just leave the lighthouse out of it. Uh, not the movie prometheus, the story somebody put day of the dead, because it all takes place in that bunker. Pretty sure, that's just budgetary problems. Dawn of the dead all takes place in a mall and I still don't consider that office horror.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I've got one, uh what about gremlins 2.
Speaker 1:Well, doesn't a lot of it take place outdoors in New York?
Speaker 2:No, most of it. It's like they close down that office building that they're in. It's almost all stuck in there, oh that's true.
Speaker 1:It is almost all in that one building. Isn't it the only one that?
Speaker 2:gets out is the bat, one that then gets in the concrete and becomes a gargoyle.
Speaker 1:Which then?
Speaker 2:later gets awakened by Zool and then hey, gozer's coming.
Speaker 1:you know, gozer's coming baby. Hey everybody, if you look busy, gozer's coming, gozer's coming.
Speaker 2:That's it, gozer's coming. Come with the queen you best not miss. Choose your destroyer. I choose Omar.
Speaker 1:Youar, you know what, though? I'm just as scared, but thankfully I'm not a drug dealer, so I'm probably safe. Uh, some of these lists put cabin in the woods because of the fact that it takes place in that yes, a third of it is workplace it's not even horror, though. No, that part is comedy. That's the comedy part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no horror there, unless the last bits, when the creatures get free and start attacking. But that's minimal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the merfolk and the pinhead knockoff and all that shit. No, I would not even come close to lumping this movie in there. Some people put the Shining Okay, come on. Put the Shining Okay, come on Now. Okay, here's one that might actually fit in that we have not considered that. I love and I watch every year Pontypool. Okay, yes, right, but it may be not, but I think so. It's their office, it is their office. I mean they have, I mean it it's not, it's not a an office space, office building, but it is not just their workplace, it is. It is an office. Yeah, but so much of it happens in, like the studio, which is that's them reacting to.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, the studio.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's so like outside of an office and it doesn't really feel like it has anything to do with office life I, yeah, I mean you're right in the sense that it has more to do with the genre of radio or broadcasting in general than it does with office life. But as someone who has worked in tv for a long time in studios, those really kind of are Well no, because the newsroom is kind of the office really, and then there's like sales and there's corporate. Yeah, I mean it's definitely one of the best workplace horrors of all time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a horror where people are stuck at their job. Yes, right, absolutely. But the fact that there are some cubicles and telephones, I don't think makes it office worthy.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I mean that's fair. I mean it is a different commentary than other workplace horror. I think it's unique in that because broadcast that whole like working in broadcast is so much different than working in other jobs and it has some crossover with office jobs, but it is its own unique sort of animal and I think it plays to those strengths.
Speaker 2:OK, I've seen this on a lot of lists American Psycho.
Speaker 1:OK, that's the number one on tons of lists and I'm like. It takes place on the street, it takes place in a cafe, it takes place in an apartment. What are you?
Speaker 2:talking about. It has nothing to do with the, just because they're corporate dudes, yeah.
Speaker 1:What? Just because they're Reaganauts doesn't mean that it's an office horror. It's not. It's not even a workplace horror.
Speaker 2:No, he does kill a co-worker, but yeah, but that's about it.
Speaker 1:Most of his interaction with other in public places, yeah, I don't know. Or his apartment, why they would. It's not an office horror in any way, shape or form. I was so awestruck at how many people put that at the top of their list and I'm like, well, just because it's like one of the better movies on that list doesn't mean it belongs on the list. It's not that.
Speaker 2:It's not even point of that movie or book. It doesn't make sense. Yeah, I don't, I have no idea why, but I mean is is every babysitter slasher film? Is that a workplace horror film?
Speaker 1:exactly like. Like, uh, what's that great christmas one? Uh, better watch out, yeah, yeah is how is that different than the shining?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, there's oh, you know what mean.
Speaker 1:If that one is an office horror, then so is Better Watch Out. And neither of them are. So I mean, like that doesn't. Yeah, is everything with a babysitter? Is Halloween an office horror? No, of course not, unless it runs across the street. I mean, alien has a better case for being a workplace horror, even though a good chunk of the movie takes place on another planet. Not because the movie takes place on another planet, not even on the ship.
Speaker 1:Now, one of the ones I do like that I think is a little underrated I've seen a couple of times, not office horror but workplace horror that I think does a really good job of keeping itself self-contained within a setting like that, is a low-budget movie called the Autopsy of Jane Doe, with Brian Cox it's Norwegian director, andré Overdal, with, uh, with brian cox it's norwegian directors, andre overdoll, yeah, overdoll, overdoll. It's his first english language film. It takes place within the confines of a morgue and the father, son, coroner team are constantly coming into contact with supernatural events while trying to autopsy a jane doe. I like that movie Mostly because I like Brian Cox. It gives sort of a little bit of credibility to an otherwise really low budget horror, like even the actress who plays. Jane Doe is relatively famous. I mean, she's been in a ton of stuff. It's a competently made horror movie and I think it is 100% a well self-contained workplace horror, but it is not an office horror. Yeah, yeah, I mean. So that's my list. That's basically how all that goes.
Speaker 2:I would say one underrated one, that is a workplace and it's a drama horror in a way.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've seen.
Speaker 2:Compliance. Have you ever seen Compliance? So Compliance is a film based on a true story about this fast food worker who gets called into the manager's office and someone is on the phone saying that she has stolen money. And this quote corporate person on the line is telling the manager that she needs to strip search this worker, and the manager does it and makes the worker take off all of her clothes. It becomes like an assault type situation. While it was being filmed, the whole time the guy had set up a camera to catch it all.
Speaker 2:And it's Again. It's more. It's less horror, but more like it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Especially that you know that like this, all actually happened.
Speaker 1:The workplace horror subgenre is very wide in scope. The office horror genre as a subgenre is very well defined. Would Exorcist?
Speaker 2:films. Would those be workplace horrors?
Speaker 1:Right, exorcist 3? Well, no, not the first one, because that's in somebody's home, but that's his job, his job as an exorcist, sure, but I mean, like, if it were a workplace horror, then it would be at his church, you would think, right, so is Prince of Darkness a workplace horror? I mean, is there a priest? I mean, yeah, donald Pleasance, obviously, but kind of, I guess. But that's the thing, that's why it gets so muddled when you spread out. That's why the Office one is so much easier to define than Workplace Horror. Right, yeah, workplace Horror is way too vague.
Speaker 1:Yeah, way too vague, but Office Horror is a very specifically, very well-defined at least by people like us subgenre.
Speaker 2:If you're in a pest control horror film and they have to go to other places. Arachnophobia, yeah, yes, I mean, but that's not. That film isn't about the John Goodman character, unfortunately, I know, but I really wanted it to be It'd be a much better film.
Speaker 1:if it was, it would be 100%. The trailers made it seem like it was. And all takes place place in one house.
Speaker 2:So other than like in the parts in brazil or whatever the fuck at the beginning. But uh, another one. I saw on some lists that I just wanted to uh give a shout out to his last shift. Did you ever see that?
Speaker 1:oh yes, the one that's kind of like it's it's a demonic manson thing, yeah, um, yeah, I mean because the guy, the evil dude that haunts the place is basically Charles Manson, but like supernatural or whatever, and comes back to the poor nurse who's on her last shift before she quits the night shift at a hospital.
Speaker 2:No, I think we're thinking of different. This one happens at a police station.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I think we are talking about the same. Yes, I think we are Instead of nurse. I think you're right. I think it's like she's like the yes, yeah, yeah, she's like the dispatcher, or whatever.
Speaker 2:She acts as both dispatcher and officer on duty, because it's the night shift Rookie cop is tasked with taking the last shift at the police station before it's permanently closed, before it closes that with like void and a couple of other things, um, which also workplace horror, the void, lovecraftian workplace horror is the void, I don't remember.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, the one, one of the main characters is the nurse that works in that hospital, right, but that's what I'm saying exactly. I can tell you what an office horror movie is. What's the worst place horror?
Speaker 1:well, we can have a debate, but you're not gonna really nail it down all that well right, yeah, so yeah so I'd like to end it with a quote that I got from a website while I was doing some of this that I thought was I wanted to find a quote from Robert Probst, because he really lamented creating the cubicle. He thought it was one of the biggest mistakes of his entire life. It's not to the same immediate, consequential extent that Robert Oppenheimer had, but the same kind of thing where I wanted this to be something good and good lord. What did I do? But most of his quotes are kind of mundane. He basically just called it insanity. He was like I can't believe they did this with my creation. It was meant to be the exact opposite of this, so instead I found a quote by a game developer, because the oh and speaking of that back rooms uh as a workplace as a office horror.
Speaker 1:As office horror.
Speaker 2:As office horror yes, yeah, I think that would work.
Speaker 1:I kind of agree. I think that actually might work. It's cubicle, I mean, it is an office building. It's literally an infinite fantastical office building. I mean that one's interesting at least. Yes, that is Especially since it's neither a film nor a TV show or it's basically a meme video. But it does fill most of the criteria.
Speaker 2:I think, if anything, it highlights what became of Probst's creations and like the way that his layouts became horrors of themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Labyrinthian nightmares, which isn't that the point of the office genre of horror. It's not something quantifiable. You can go well that's a movie or that's a TV show or whatever, but I mean the spirit of that subgenre, I think, is yeah, I think you're right, it gets typified by backrooms. I was going to end with a quote from this name is Jared Bolkin, who co-created the video game Interference Dead Air, because apparently there are a ton of office horror video games. It's been kind of a thing which makes sense. He said this to the website dreadcentralcom.
Speaker 1:Quote horror often relies on subverting the familiar and the comfortable, but what's unique about the workplace is that for many people it's already a source of dread, even before you add monsters into the mix. He continues am I doing a good job? Will I still be here in a month, a year? Am I stuck here Safe? Is this what I want to do for the rest of my life? Work forces us to confront those types of questions, and that's already terrifying. I mean, that's America, capitalism, baby. That was a roller coaster, wasn't, wasn't?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, I was not expecting that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's uh, office place horror, office workspace horror. So, uh, so I guess that's it for this one.
Speaker 2:So let's get off this work.
Speaker 1:Horror stuff yeah, yep, yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 2:That's a winner is what they call that in the biz hey, it's five o'clock somewhere.
Speaker 1:The biz, hey, it's five o'clock somewhere.
Speaker 2:Well, we hope we haven't spooked you all too much.
Speaker 1:But a lot though, but a lot, you're fired. Now we're dealing with horror.
Speaker 2:It fits, it fits Well. You know what else fits this podcast in your ear holes? Gentle listener, we hope that you've enjoyed the ride and that you come back again and again.
Speaker 1:There's going to be two hits when I hit you and you hit the ground. Yeah, get hit.
Speaker 2:Again, thank you for listening. Please like, share, subscribe, if you wouldn't mind leaving us. Shit I done. Got fucked one more time, didn't I? You painted yourself into a corner there, cubicles. How about cubicles?
Speaker 1:All right.
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Speaker 1:Well, first of all, I would go so far as to say zany things that we do. Tell me if that's a bridge too far.
Speaker 2:It's a bridge over Kwai too far.
Speaker 1:A bridge over the River Kwai, over troubled waters of Madison County Too far. So in the meantime, please make sure you have pager taps, make sure you have tipped your KJs, your wait staff, your bartenders, make sure you have cleaned up after yourselves to some sort of reasonable degree, and don't forget to support your local comic shops and retailers. And from Dispatch Ajax we would like to say Godspeed, fair wizards, wherever you're working from.
Speaker 2:Why should I change my name? He's the one who sucks. Please go away.