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Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Nerds explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Lost Episode: Jesus in Comics
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A lost holiday episode from a year ago has been found!
What if Jesus Christ was more than just a historical figure, and instead, a modern-day superhero navigating the colorful pages of Marvel and DC Comics? We unravel this intriguing concept by examining how the iconic figure has been portrayed across major comic book universes. From the classic biblical narratives in DC's "Picture Stories from the Bible" to Marvel's bold 1990s adaptations, we speculate whether these portrayals were reactions to cultural waves like the Satanic Panic or simply creative retellings aimed at specific audiences. With a playful spirit, we reimagine biblical figures donning capes and tights, transforming age-old stories into superhero sagas.
Jesus in Comic Books
Speaker 1Oh, bit of the f*** of the Irish, huh.
Speaker 2The pipes, the pipes.
Speaker 1Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.
Speaker 2Are they in the proper approach pattern for today? Negative.
Speaker 1All weapons Now Charge the lightning field. Welcome back to Dispatch Ajax. I'm Jake.
Speaker 2I'm Skip. That's the show.
Speaker 1That is the show that you're listening to right now, because we're recording it and it's coming over the airwaves into your brain cells.
Speaker 2That's not really how it works that's how the pad cast works it is odd, because this is neither radio, uh, nor is pad cast a thing listen to the good pad cast we shall consult. The good pad cast, we shall consult the good pad, I'll hail the pad.
Speaker 1Okay, so on our recent journeys, we followed Jesus on his many adventures. He went to Asia, he went to India, but on this podcast he's going to go somewhere a little more, both esoteric and tangible.
Speaker 2Disney World.
Speaker 1He went down to the tunnels and never escaped. Well, but they found him three days later and threw him out. He has risen. No, today we're following Jesus on the pages of comic books. That's right. We're following Jesus on the pages of comic books that's right. The times that Jesus Christ was both in Marvel and DC, and what he means to both of them.
Speaker 2Wow, that's really interesting. I can literally, and maybe we'll come to this at the end. I have um currently on my bookshelf, right next to me, a bunch of um Christian comic books from the seventies and eighties, 60s, sevents and 80s, 70s, 80s and today, and today.
Speaker 1Obviously there hasn't been a ton of Jesus in comic books. Most of the times Jesus has shown up have been in retelling of biblical stories in graphic form, Stuff like the picture stories from the Bible New Testament. It was from DC. That was back from 1944 and 45. They were originally published DC and then the third and final issues were actually published in EC Comics when the publisher MC Gaines left DC to found his own company. I don't think they're still in print much.
Speaker 2Well, I wouldn't imagine so.
Speaker 1Yeah, there have been quite a few different religious comic books that Marvel has done, the ones that are fairly specific just to the life of Jesus Christ. You will find the Life of Christ that Marvel did in 92 and 93. And they also did the Easter Story, which was also done in 93. 93 was a big year for Jesus and Marvel.
Speaker 2Big, big time for Bob.
Speaker 1Harris Jim.
Speaker 2Shooter and Jesus Big winners that year, weirdly.
Speaker 1Louise Simonson was the writer on both of those.
Speaker 2What Really?
Speaker 1Yeah, I don't know, maybe they just had a thing for Jesus. Okay, I don't really find those of much value for this discussion because, yeah, you're just telling out-of-canon stories about Jesus and the Bible.
Speaker 2Okay, here's a question.
Speaker 1Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2Do you think it's coincidental and maybe so, do you think it's coincidental that Marvel put out that at that particular time, just as Todd McFarlane, who just left marvel was putting out spawn? You know?
Speaker 1what I mean as spawn being a jesus analog no, as spawn being a, an apocryphal christian adjacent anti-hero who's you know from hell.
Speaker 2You know what I mean. Like, like, as a response during the latter part of the Satanic Panic era, right.
Speaker 1It's the Mountain Dew Extreme version of biblical tales.
Speaker 2Right but.
Speaker 1I mean, like is Marvel going back and just doing straight up'd probably take a less cynical view and say that in every decade they would do some spiritual comic books, whether it's about a pope or an apostle or St Francis of Assisi or Jesus or Moses. That's just something they do every few years, but it's all just one shot. It's not like they did like a series of them.
Speaker 2They also didn't do like the Life of Muhammad or the Adventures of Abraham or whatever.
Speaker 1Oh, no you know what I mean, not at all, In fact almost just Christian, not even like Old Testament stuff. I would say it is marketing and demographics. And think of how many copies they could sell to churches.
Speaker 2Sure, sure, but I mean it's odd that it came out at that time instead of like 87 or something. You know what I mean. I'm just wondering. I have nothing to back that up, I'm just curious.
Speaker 1No, it's a valid question to raise To rat.
Speaker 2That's for sure To rat With two Ts.
Speaker 1On'm just curious. It's a valid question to raise To rat With two Ts On your pad, cast With your ape gusts. But yeah, I mean periodically companies not just Marvel and DC, other companies also put out Christian based comic books. You know, it's just scratching an itch and I think that particular demographic is always looking for like new hip ways to tell the same story, and comic books are an easy pipeline for that.
Speaker 2It's just weird putting out those stories when Superman is a very obvious religious, you know, like allegory. So it's like, do you have to get real literal about it too, you know?
Speaker 1I mean like uh, yes, yeah, that's true. And plus I mean again, as you've said many times, superman isn't jesus, superman is moses. Yeah, all right, this son of son of g that we got jason of g, see, that's the image title that I could see coming out in 93. He's the lost summers brother, is what he is, no no, j, son of g, is called splatter fest.
Speaker 2They do the uh passion but it's just a bunch of dudes and big shoulder pads with a ton of pockets trying to save jesus and then just mowing down roman guards yeah, and and like there's judas and he's like a trickster demon with fucking metal wings, and pontius pilate is like a cybernetic ape, that one.
Speaker 1I can see the judas thing. I think he's just a trickster. I think that's how we started out, but then then, when he was taken by I don't know whatever Satan analog we want to come up with.
Speaker 2No, Kilgore, the aliens that cured the Flash when he got shot in the heart by Vandal Savage and cybernetically enhanced. That's what happened to Judas. Yeah, they took him and created the ultimate secular archangel, I guess. And then this thing writes itself.
Speaker 1Man. Yeah, money is going to flow in from this bad boy, just like Jesus would want. You know, jesus always said make money off of my image, and that's something that unfortunately, in my opinion, both DC and Marvel haven't done enough of.
Speaker 2Making money off of Jesus's image.
Jesus Christ in the DC Universe
Speaker 1Making money off of Jesus's image. Making money off of Jesus' image Because he just doesn't really pop up that much. You can tell that it is a delicate subject matter that they don't want to dip too much into. Most of the appearances of Jesus in comics tends to be like in minuscule flashbacks or in pictures of Jesus or references to Jesus, but rarely do they actually come out and discuss Jesus, his religious power, his godliness, any of that. It's mostly an untouched resource. An untouched resource, you know. Look what happens when you talk about Superboy kissed a guy. The fervor that comes from that kind of thing. If you talk about Jesus, jesus wasn't the son of God, you know? Or you know what if Jesus had magic powers?
Speaker 2Boy, they never read Preacher, then did they?
Speaker 1Now, obviously I am not.
Speaker 2I'm not taking image comics, I'm not taking account much of vertigo, some vertigo stuff, but even vertigo tends to like dance around other characters within the biblical framework kind of I mean I mean you have like lucifer, that's a big character for them but I do appreciate that they go to the way to say that Lucifer is not Satan and that there are three reigning kings of hell in the Sandman universe. During the Vertigo run.
Speaker 1I'm rereading and reading. Finally, because I have, like these big annotated versions of Sandman that I'm going through.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1And then, like, it starts out with Lucifer being the king of hell, obviously, and then he leaves, he splits. That's when you get Mike Carey's wonderful Lucifer run, which then they made another Lucifer book from and they made a TV show. That is nothing like either of those no, and it sucks.
Speaker 1Yeah, I had no desire to watch it. When you take here's lucifer, who was the ruler of hell, he leaves and find a way to get back at god and find his place in the universe, but you decide to turn that into a story of just hanging out in la and solving murders with detectives. What? Uh, I'm sorry what I, I, I will never understand that this is how you get a keanu Reeves Constantine. Which is, from what I've seen, still much better than that Lucifer show.
Speaker 2Oh, 100%. That is an accidentally pretty good movie.
Speaker 1Yes, it's not great.
Speaker 2There's some really cool stuff in that film, yeah and it's not Constantine, it's like his American cousin, steve Constantine.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's Johnny Johnny from the coast. American cousin Steve Constantine yeah, it's Johnny Johnny from the coast.
Speaker 2I do appreciate the casting. The guy that they did in Lucifer and was he in Lucifer? I know he was in. He had his own series, but he originally was in one of those other WB shows. The guy that they had play John Constantine in that, Finally, the only guy that looks like John Constantine oh yeah, no, that was like John Constantine. Oh yeah, no, that was actually a good casting, it was. He kind of looks like Sting. That's what he's supposed to be. Do they call it Constantine or do they call it Hellblazer? No, they call it Constantine.
Speaker 1They call it Constantine.
Speaker 2I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1And that ran like a season and then they canceled it. They canceled it.
Speaker 2And, and then he came back in the DC stuff, the WBDC, he came back in the Doctor Who-ish one, legends of Tomorrow, oh right, where they're hopping around, yeah, where it's like the exiles, but Doctor who. It's so, doctor who, that they actually get one of the old Doctor who companions to come in and then his ship is called Wave Rider, instead of Wave Rider being a character. I don't know what it's supposed to be actually, because it has nothing to do with anything that ever happened in the comics that show is so weird.
Speaker 1Yeah, that fell by the wayside for me because it started to become the glut of fairly routine Arrowverse. Dc shows that it's like I just don't have time for Greg Berlanti. Yeah, I'm sure if I was 14, I would have been like, oh, I'm just coming home from school and watching these and I'll absorb all of them, but I just didn't have the time or the effort.
Speaker 2Honestly, but I understand what they were trying to do. I mean, they even brought Brandon Routh back as the Atom, but then also brought Brandon Routh back as Superman.
Speaker 1Yeah, all right. So for Jesus Christ in the DC universe, obviously you have to talk about different eras. Okay, you have the modern mainstream DC universe from 1930 to 2011. In that there is a Jesus Christ also known as the Nazarene. It's the Jesus, you know, when you look at his it's better than Jesus.
Speaker 2You don't know.
Speaker 1DC has his own database and they will describe certain characters. So Jesus has powers, he has healing Nice, he has molecular reconstruction, awesome Resurrection, cool Weather, manipulation, flash villain.
Speaker 2And exorcismurrection, cool Weather, manipulation, flash villain and exorcism.
Speaker 1Okay, yeah, he also has abilities such as carpentry, theology and storytelling.
Speaker 2Oh man, Is this a collectible card game that I'm missing out on?
Speaker 1If you're making a bard deck, I think Jesus will really work for you. This is a commander deck. I think Jesus will really work for you.
Speaker 2This is a commander deck. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 1I haven't, I haven't. I'm so far out of the who loop.
Speaker 2No no, no Magic the. Gathering's Doctor who, what I'm not making it up. You can go to Target and get it.
Speaker 1Wait. So they did a Lord of the Rings one and then a Doctor who one.
Speaker 2What yes Huh?
Speaker 1Does it play with other magic cards? Yes, wow.
Speaker 2You can buy a magic card with a Dalek. Huh, I had no idea If you're into magic at all.
Speaker 1Yeah, magic's like a. I respect it. I have friends who play a lot of it, spend a lot of money with Magic cards. I can just see that being a whole rabbit hole.
Speaker 2I just I avoid it, the only reason I don't own them is because the only time I see them is at Target and I'm not spending $70 for a Commander and Deckham doctor who I'm just not. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1They probably have them at card shops or whatnot.
Speaker 2Well, I know, but that's the thing. It's like. I'll buy it from a comic book store but I'm not going to buy it from Target.
Speaker 1I feel that Some interesting things about the Jesus from that DC universe. There was a vampire named Azarine that drank Christ's blood while he was on the cross.
Speaker 2That fucking rules.
Speaker 1That's pretty damn cool. That was in Doctor Fate number five. Fuck, yes, yeah yeah, pretty damn cool, that was in Dr.
Speaker 2Fate number five Fuck, yes, yeah, yeah. Why are these not movies? I know so much better.
Speaker 1There's the famous story of Swamp Thing, volume two, number 88. That is the unpublished Rick Veitch story, Rick Veitch.
Speaker 2however you say his name, it's Veitch. I'm pretty sure Veitch.
Speaker 1We'll see. It's none of the above.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Yeah, so in this story it probably featured Jesus, referred to in the story only as the magician or the Nazarene, and the story had Etrigan, the demon directly responsible for the crucifixion, which has cosmic significance on par with crisis on infant Earths.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, that would have been awesome.
Speaker 2Yeah, but that's a lot of guilt for Jason Blood man. Whoa, hey, whoa, you never mentioned this.
Speaker 1Yeah, the issue was never published because DC backtracked on the controversial imagery and published a replacement by Doug Wheeler instead. Pussies, yeah, that's how that goes. One kind of interesting thing they did so in an Azrael you know book that nobody read. I didn't read this, but I did look into it.
Speaker 2Yeah, you're referring to Azrael, who used to be Batman for a second.
Speaker 1Yes, yes, the guy who was Batman, jean-paul Jean-Baptiste.
Speaker 2Jean-Paul Vallee. Jean-paul Vall Valley. Yeah, who's part of like a super strict religious cult.
Speaker 1Yeah, it kind of like he kind of came across as like a I don't know like a knight Templar.
Speaker 2Yeah, well, he thought himself that yeah.
Speaker 1He had a. I think his claim to fame, especially early on, was he had a flaming sword.
Speaker 2Oh, when he was Asriel. Yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1Yeah, which I mean you know as a kid due to the flaming sword. That's awesome, like how does that work?
Speaker 2He became Batman and then he slowly changed the costume, including, like, these razor claws, and he beat the shit out of Bane and then started murdering people. And so that's when Bruce rehabbed himself and came back like quite literally pulled a Bruce Lee and rehabbed his broken back and then came back to defeat John Pau Valley, to reclaim the cowl. And then John Pau Valley like went into a spiral of mental illness and then settled into the Asriel persona with the same claws but also with a fucking flaming sword.
Speaker 1Conceptually, that's all right, Actual story-wise. There just wasn't much meat on that bone no, not really, so it kind of fell off for me. But there is a story in the 2010s called the Killer of Saints Not the Saint of Killers, no, not the Saint of Killers. And this one's all about, I don't know, blah, blah, blah, you know, saints running out of order, purity and suit of sorrows and all the stuff I don't really give a shit about. But it tells the story of. One of the Vatican's best-kept secrets is that it scientifically disproves the resurrection of Jesus Christ through the Shroud of Turin.
Speaker 2Well okay, I mean it's interesting because the Shroud of Turin has been disproven to be authentic. It came from like the 13th century. But Turin has been disproven to be authentic. It came from like the 13th century. But yeah, that is interesting, you and your naysaying, well, but that's kind of the point is they're going to scientifically disprove something that has been scientifically disproven.
Speaker 1You're like, well, okay, Well, yes and no, because in that same story one of the guys, gris, privately tells Azrael that the Shroud's real secret, that its DNA sample will reveal the descendants of Jesus Christ. Ah okay, who the suit of sorrows was originally made for? Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2The real grail, as it were. Yeah, there's a great Antonio Banderas movie about this, called the Body. It's called the Body Body. Yeah, he's a priest from the Vatican body. Yeah, he's a priest from the Vatican. Supposedly in Jerusalem there is an archaeological discovery of the tomb of Jesus that actually has the corpse of Jesus in it, and he's come to verify or debunk at the same time, not knowing which, and then there's a whole debate on whether it is or isn't. But they keep getting attacked by underground sects of all religions who think that if this is true, then the entire world will collapse. So they're trying to kill them so that nothing ever gets out. It's actually not a bad movie.
Speaker 1I see, oddly, that apparently it was in development hell for 15 years, with Universal intending to distribute and produce it with Liam Neeson as the star.
Speaker 2Oh, interesting.
Speaker 1In the end the product was dropped after Universal became nervous about the religious themes Interesting. So again pussed out, they did so. There's also the Jesus of the current time, like 2011 to present. It's kind of the new 52 and on Jesus, I'm glad that's a thing Slightly different His powers and abilities, divine Empowerment, which gives him healing and empathy. That's a power he has. He has super empathy. His abilities also are leadership and charisma. He's got a plus 12.
Speaker 2All of those make sense, though, like empathy. Okay, yes, that's necessary.
Speaker 1Leadership charisma yeah, Empathy's a power, not an ability, so he has like super empathy. Okay, good, Indeed Also trivia his birth is celebrated every year on Christmas. Have you heard about this? What?
Speaker 1a coincidence, hey, hey, have you heard about this? I'd say maybe one of the most interesting things in the DC universe relating to Jesus is the story of the Phantom Stranger. Now, the Phantom Stranger has, unfortunately, a multitude, a plethora of possible origin stories. He is indeed an enigma. One of them is that he might have been Judas Iscariot. Okay, it is his divine retribution to then walk the earth as the Phantom Stranger for his transgressions against Christ.
Speaker 2Okay, all right, I think it would help if we could define what the Phantom Stranger's purpose is in the DC universe, because what does he do exactly, I mean? So it's not like Ghost Rider, where you kind of get it right off the bat right from DC's own database.
Speaker 1The Phantom Stranger is a mysterious mystic who has walked the earth for centuries. That's it nailed it. I would think if I was to relate to someone who's never read the Phantom Stranger, he's kind of like a noir spirit, like the spirit eisner's, a spirit looking uh cloaked figure who has magic abilities, kind of like dr strange, and just kind of pops in and out to help with big spiritual magic stuffs from time to time.
Speaker 2He's kind of similar to like a Marvel cosmic character who just like nobody knows he exists until he pops in to like make sure that nothing goes terribly wrong.
Speaker 1Yeah, but I mean there's other stories that he was like a fallen angel or that he was a guy that Jesus knew and Jesus didn't stop Cart from running over a child. Then he came along and when Jesus was being whipped he paid Roman soldiers to then whip him and then was cosmically taken after death to become the Phantom Stranger. After that there's a lot of different stories over the years of the origin and purpose of the Phantom Stranger, and possibly he was Judas Iscariot.
Speaker 2Oh, like it's Dracula, 2000?.
Speaker 1Yes, very much like that. Yeah, but like you know he's Judas, you know he portrays Jesus.
Speaker 2if you haven't heard the story, yeah, let's recap the Bible right now.
Mutant Messiah and Religious Implications
Speaker 1Then Afwell. One part that's not in the Bible is after Judas kills himself. He has to go in front of the Council of Wizards.
Speaker 2Are you talking about the actual, like Shazam Wizards?
Speaker 1Yes, yes, he goes to the Council of Wizards. Yeah, the Wizard, shazam, solomon, pandora's there, the Mighty Adam, the, the Presence which is kind of like God, big G God.
Speaker 2But kind of. It's kind of like some of those Marvel Celestial characters where it's kind of Difficult to explain.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's the difference between having gods and the god. That's why they just put it as the present, so they can kind of get away with that kind of thing. Yeah, that's true, he kind of has the god powers and he's kind of not. They don't have to name him. Uh, that's the thing they do a lot in sandman and lucifer.
Speaker 1Yeah, we have the presence which stands in for that, and they reference it just like it would be god, but they don't actually come out and say it, even though he has heaven and a flock of angels and et cetera, et cetera. Again, they don't ever want to like push that button too much because they're afraid of a backlash. But there's one thing that Marvel did fairly recently that had a little bit of a backlash Maybe not as much as one might expect, but I just don't know if people took it to heart as much. So in the immortal x-men number one, which was from 2022 yeah, 2022, so again recent they're really coming down from a very extreme high point in x-men storytelling as of late, they had their own island. They were able to resurrect other mutants.
Speaker 2Is this where Cyclops kills Magneto?
Speaker 1No. Current X-Men has been really interesting. Once Hickman kind of restarted, it laid out a bunch of interesting storylines, cool ideas. I would highly recommend House of X, powers of X, hox, pox, as we call it in the biz. Go check it out and all of the stuff, almost everything flowing out of that, like the past I don't know, maybe four years has been mostly really cool and well done. There's a switch. Very good, yeah, I mean you only get good X-Men stuff. What I say like once every decade or so.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's probably true this has been the primo x-men stuff again. I am a hickman apologist. I love everything he does, oh yeah. So I think even people who aren't as uh hickman dick sucking as me will also like it. So have at it. But one thing they do in this is that they are discussing hope and Exodus. Exodus is kind of a he was a bad guy and in this current version all mutants are together, so bad guys and good guys are all on the same island, coexisting.
Speaker 2Wasn't Exodus an acolyte? Exodus was an acolyte, yes.
Speaker 1I think he was like a French nobleman, maybe for the Crusades, and then he realized he had mutant powers and kind of lived since then, et cetera, et cetera. But he's an extremely religious figure and he sees hope again, like the first mutant born after M-Day, which was when there were no more mutants she was the first one, scarlet. Witch and all that, she has special powers and he sees her as like the mutant messiah, and so he's always kind of like following her around like a puppy.
Speaker 2Like we all are with Floretspew yeah.
Speaker 1And they have a conversation. So I'll just read a little bit of this dialogue here. So they're walking around, they're talking on the island. Hope says please don't call me that. And he's like. Whatever you wish, he's like uh, I can hear that gap at the end of the sentence You're still calling me Messiah.
Speaker 1Internally he says I'm a mutant of faith. I have that faith in you and you cannot prevent that. Your coming rekindled the fecundity of mutants. The Holy Spirit came upon you and she cuts him off. The phoenix, the burning space bird, came upon me. Yeah, there's no need to get religious. And then Exodus says the Nazarene mutant, inspired a church among the humans by raising a couple from the dead. I just watched you best that in the last five minutes. Wow, are they saying that Jesus is a mutant? They are implying heavily that Jesus was in fact a mutant. I don't know if they're implying. Now one can read into things, because Exodus didn't come around until the 1400s, I believe so he wasn't around during Jesus' time. The what? 1400s? I believe so. He wasn't around during Jesus's time. But there is a strong implication, explicit or implicit, that Jesus was in fact a mutant, which gave him these powers that are thought to be of God. Now, that is a recent interpretation of Jesus within the Marvel Universe. There have been others though.
Speaker 2That's interesting because, like you would think if you were someone who believed in mutants. As holy Namor predates Jesus by a long shot, so does Apocalypse Exactly Like. Wouldn't you like worship them before? Or is that like the difference between Jews and Christians in the mutant faiths?
Speaker 1The way I read into it is that he recognizes him as a mutant, but he doesn't recognize his divinity necessarily. Oh, so he's Muslim. You know, I think Exodus kind of sees more power in hope, and I mean he is distinctly Christianian before this, before like then putting right now he's just a cult.
Speaker 1Yeah, oh, 100 yeah, that's his whole deal, which is made for an interesting back and forth and facet to their relationship and the way he proselytizes how faith in hope and religion within mutantdom is kind of a hot spot. They mention it in multiple comics because part of the fact that there is resurrection puts them on a more godlier space and then they have to deal with what that resurrection means. That's something like there's a long story of what that means to Nightcrawler, being another one of like the more religious characters within mutandom.
Speaker 1So they do touch upon this a lot and it's fascinating. Again, there's a lot of different aspects of society as a whole and within mutandom and how they interact with each other and what all of these changes mean for them. There's also the revelation that there are kind of a whole mutant under society from thousands of years ago that kind of got separated off and there's a lot.
Speaker 2There's a lot going on. Was that also run by Callisto?
Speaker 1or it's Apocalypse's wife and his kids? Okay, and you know the island of Krakoa, of course. Okay, and you know the island of Krakoa, of course. Okay, so there was one larger island, but they split into two Krakoa and Eric Araco.
Speaker 2His name's. Eric, he's just a guy named Eric.
Speaker 1It kind of like went in another space and so like that is in a different kind of dimension, that is, a separate plane of reality from the one that the Marvel Universe is on.
Speaker 2Oh, interesting, I don't remember that part of the Pacific Ocean. I'm very confused by that.
Speaker 1Yeah, and this isn't even talking about them colonizing Mars, or Of course not. There's a lot of stuff that happens.
Speaker 2Oh man.
Speaker 1Within the story and again they completely redefine Moira McTaggart. They kind of go into the far future of the end of mutants and the rise of machines and what that means for the Terminator. I mean Terminator, times a million, I don't know. It's well worth your time and there's a lot of stuff going on, but there isn't as much about Jesus, unfortunately.
Speaker 2There's a lot of stuff going on, but there isn't as much about Jesus, unfortunately. Well, that's interesting, because one of the biggest and most important X-Men arcs is. God Love man Kills, which deals with a hyper-Christian cult on an island that is William Stryker. So how does that fit into the whole? I mean, like, where does he rank among the religious?
Speaker 1They don't deal with him. I don't think Stryker's alive anymore. I believe his children are.
Speaker 2Well, if you ask Bryan Singer, he's all over the place.
Speaker 1So they're like a multifaceted human resistance against what mutants do currently. There's like a scientific side, a somewhat somewhat religious side, a transhumanist side the warren ellis corner, which one does brandon, or uh, what is it?
Speaker 2uh, braden creed belong to, oh, graydon creed, graydon creed there you go.
Speaker 1Thank you yeah I I don't that's. That's all kind of like fallen by the wayside. Um, there's so many characters that I maybe he's popped up in X-Core or something.
Speaker 2It would be kind of cool if he fought Wolverine's son. That would be pretty awesome. Dokken, the Christian band Dokken.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, I was just trying to yes, graydon Creed versus Dokken. Oh, I see, oh, you're Creed there, you go.
Speaker 2Oh, I see, oh, you're Creed. There you go, come on.
Speaker 1Come on, Sorry, I'm deep in my X brain right now and you're bringing other things. Connection's not being made.
Speaker 2Oh no, look at me, I'm the Nathaniel Gray. They spring a Sonic-con over here.
Speaker 1Bring a Saudi scone over here I'm just trying to like vaguely explain like half a decade's worth of X-Men stuff.
Speaker 2We've all we, you know, you and I have many times expressed the idea that that's not.
Speaker 1Oh no, Again, I'm just doing like this small little sliver of what the X-Men brings. I will not interrupt. Continue. Oh no, it's fine. I'm kind of like I just thought that was interesting A recent Christ in comics controversy, although it didn't really garner that much excitement. I didn't really see a whole lot of articles on pushback for that and not anymore. Yeah, but I mean there are consistent things like that that get people's hackles riled.
Speaker 2So do you at all addressed fables perchance I do not, because again, that's vertigo right, I understand outside of that and it's its own.
Speaker 1It was its own separate thing up until I think there have been kind of crossovers between fables and dc at this point.
Speaker 2But well, but also, fables never addresses jesus. They go out of their way to not address jesus. But bill willingham has gone out of his way to say that jesus does exist in that universe. But there's a reason. They never said that in the books.
Speaker 1So yeah, and again, I think they do that quite a bit. Even Vertigo does it. I think the same thing happens in Unwritten, if I remember right.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, but it's like I forgot about that book. God, it's been forever since I read that book.
Speaker 1Yeah, that one's completely fallen by the wayside. A really cool book. Yeah, it's a great book.
Speaker 2I don't think it's in print anymore. I don't think I've thought about that book in 15 years or more.
Speaker 1Yeah, that's too bad. So you know again, you don't get much jesus in marvel. He pops up very sporadically, but I'm talking like. Actually like interacting with the jesus christ happens. You know, less than a handful of times. One of the main times that I could find was in the 2002 Max volume of Howard the Duck.
Speaker 2Okay, fine, if there's any time.
Speaker 1Yeah, where apparently, at the end of the thing, there's a heaven spawned super creature called Deuteronomy that merges with a talk show hosts and then jesus gets called in to help with it and he he's pretty angry and feels put upon by god. Then it feels like you just keep asking more of him. This is the book I I didn't read. It's a garth ennis yeah, that's garth ennis I figured it. Yeah.
Speaker 2Because then he later on went on to do in I think it was Avatar Press. He did Wormwood, which deals with Christ and not the same way, but he also deals with that, of course, in Preacher, preacher.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's a thing he comes back to.
Speaker 2It isn't like a hang up. As much as he thinks it's fucking funny.
Speaker 1Oh, as much as he thinks it's fucking funny. Oh yeah, he positioned himself to tell these stories but they're outside of continuity and they're their own thing and the publishers kind of let him play around and do his own thing. Christ's sandbox.
Speaker 2Yeah, that's what we call heaven nowadays the Christ's sandbox.
Speaker 1Come play.
Speaker 2Come play with us, Danny.
Speaker 1But they do have Jesus and you know the son of Yahweh, and blah, blah, blah. He does appear in Ghost Rider. Maybe there is a character called the Friend which looks a lot like Jesus and has some Jesus stuff, but they never say it's Jesus. Okay, yeah, there's a again editorial ixnayed that and appeared to make it ambiguous. Right, there are. The Magi who presented gifts to Jesus were in fact aliens who followed the Star of Bethlehem throughout the universe, as it appeared before important events. At least so says Marvel Comics Presents number 17. Cool, yeah, that's interesting. There's another couple things. Two immortal beings, the Sphinx and the first vampire, varney, apparently observed Jesus during the time when he was alive. What's up, jase? Yeah, it's like, hey, what's up, jay? Do you want to get some Pringles?
Speaker 2They got some pork tenderloins down there. They got some pork tenderloins down there I got some dried fish and rice. I am craving a shrimp cocktail right now.
Speaker 1Hey, First Vampire, throw another shrimp in the barbie.
Speaker 2For me First Vampire was of course from Australia. It's Jim Varney Interesting.
Speaker 1Yeah, but other than that you really just don't get a whole lot of Jesus. There is a bit in Miracle man where he creates a new biblical tale of Jesus, but that story is crazy and not part of the MCU or Marvel Universe or any of that. There's interesting stuff like Doctor Doom having splinters of the true cross in his armor just in case he'd run into Dracula.
Speaker 2Just in case.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's better safe than sorry. Yeah, well, I mean.
Speaker 2I get that. You never know when you're going to run into a Dracula.
Speaker 1You never know when Dracula's going to pop up. Just any Dracula.
Speaker 2Draculas are walking around. I mean, it's a common place nowadays.
Speaker 1And apparently Jesus is allegedly the only being more powerful among heaven's forces than the archangels Ruth and Esther, my favorite.
Speaker 2Marvel characters Ruth and Esther. I know Shlemiel, shlemazel, haas and Paffer Incorporated.
Exploring Jesus in Comics Universe
Speaker 1Hey, we've been around for thousands of years. What do you want to do in the 80s? I don't know. Let's work at a canning factory, not the 80s, that's the 70s, 70s, alright? Well, it wouldn't have been the 80s, right? I don't think so. Yeah, these were again Angels that Marvel made up In the Ghost Rider series that apparently are the most powerful angels Okay, I don't know. Marvel made up in the ghost rider series that apparently are the most powerful angels, okay, okay, I don't know. Again, that's something I came across in my jesus search. It's just like they're doing a golden girls sort of.
Speaker 1I just love how, like you know, there's remiel and uh, belial and and Ruth, and then Esther and Sophia. And Rose, and there's Gladys Flo, barbie the angel.
Speaker 2That's a horse of a different color.
Speaker 1But yeah, other than that, the only other times Jesus pops up it's just in pictures of Jesus or flashbacks of Jesus. He just doesn't show up much. So him being a mutant, that's fascinating. At least they like actually put Jesus in Marvel continuity and do something interesting with him, if only in a one-off line. Sure, I'm giving them the smallest modicum of huh. That's something, that's a thing. Yeah, but that is your Jesus in comics. We hope you've enjoyed. Please do spread the word. If you are liking, come get us next pod, gentle listener, and until that time, skip what else should they do?
Speaker 2Make sure you have, of course, paid your tabs, tipped your waitstaff and your delivery drivers Very specifically like subscribe, share and download All of these things, because this is how we get seen. Make sure you support your local comic shops and retailers. From Dispatch Ajax we would like to say Godspeed, fair wizards, please go away.