Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Geeks explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Bonus: Charles Bronson in the Year 2025
Who carries Charles Bronson's torch in today's action landscape?
Bronson carved out a unique space in cinema history with his stoic presence, minimalist acting style, and everyman quality that somehow made his extraordinary feats believable. We dive deep into what made him special – that gritted-teeth delivery, the intimidating presence despite his average stature, and his ability to play essentially the same character across different films while still creating something compelling each time.
Skip, I think you had a question for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, after going through his oeuvre and really kind of re-evaluating Bronson who we have not mocked but imitated many times, even though it's funny I noticed in almost all of his films he has a lisp and no one ever mentions it. What are you?
Speaker 1:going to bring that up to Bronson.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I'm not going to tell him to his face, sure, but my question was who do you think is the modern Charles Bronson? I think I know what my answer is. Okay, I'm curious as to what you think.
Speaker 1:I guess this is how we define what that is. When I think of Charles Bronson, you know, you think of, I'd say, kind of a shorter persona, a little bit timeless, acting through gritted teeth in a way, you know, lots of like playing the same character, somewhat action-based, but also somewhat every man ish, you know, also maybe has like some weird films thrown in there. Which of those elements should I focus on in this particular quandary?
Speaker 2:that's a good question, because when you say those qualifiers, I automatically think Bruce Willis, which is obviously the reason that they did the remake of Death Wish with Bruce Willis, which is terrible. But no, I don't think it's that personally this weird simpatico. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Where you know we share the same existence at the same time. But sometimes it can be hard to find that connection and I wonder if I'm going to disappoint you by not naming who you might think.
Speaker 2:Well, you're not going to disappoint me either way. I don't know if we'll agree right off the bat. We can argue it.
Speaker 1:Okay, there are three individuals that come to mind I couldn't think of that many. That's crazy okay we'll see if any of these fit for you okay okay, the first one comes to mind is tom hardy, interesting. Okay, there's a consistent action element.
Speaker 1:He like his performances are never generally that broad, fairly not anti-emotional but subsumed okay when you see his face and you think of him speaking, it's always kind of like you know he's not really opening his mouth a lot. It's kind of like that stony exterior. He also mixes in, again fairly action-based, but kind of these weird projects every once in a while, be it a Venom, in a way a Locke, a Taboo TV show. That's interesting, bronson, you know early in his career Boy.
Speaker 2:The irony of him playing.
Speaker 1:Bronson. Another one that kind of came to mind is Some of his Guy Ritchie stuff I could see.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think this one fits the least, but it did pop to my head was a Ryan Gosling. Did you say Ryan Gosling? Ryan Gosling, yes.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Now this kind of only sticks in my craw a bit in his Nicholas Winding Refn years Sure when it was that and like Ides of March, again somewhat robotic, in a way charismatic, but an, an unevocative charisma. I think he's kind of like his stuff before that and stuff after that kind of disqualifies him, but in that short period of time that's kind of like top of my head.
Speaker 2:So we're not getting, we're not considering Lars and the real girl, then is what you're saying?
Speaker 1:I mean, if it is well, lars, I mean it kind of fits a little more in that, but probably not, and it's tough. Okay, maybe I'm a little bit angry white guy with a gun and a chip on his shoulder held in this frame of mind, but a Liam Neeson, interesting the latter half of his career is very Death Wish inspired, so I think I'm just kind of conflating those two personas into the same brain space.
Speaker 2:There's nothing wrong with that. I mean no, there's nothing wrong with that. No, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think any of those were what you were looking for. No, so I'm going to cede my time, and because I could keep coming up with things. I mean, there's elements of like a Josh Brolin, but he also has some wild swings that don't fit.
Speaker 2:The senator has ceded his time.
Speaker 1:I do not recall, mr Representative. Okay, well, actually, you know what?
Speaker 2:the Liam Neeson thing is? I think great. I do not recall, mr Representative. Okay, well, actually you know what the Liam Neeson thing is. I think great. I think that is a very good alternative to my theory. I think that is probably one of the better that I could possibly think of. He did kind of like pigeonhole himself into that type of role, and I think, for good reason. I mean well, actually I don't know, because I don't know why he's that guy, Just like Bruce Willis. It was one of those things where it was like, well, I don't know why he's that guy, it shouldn't work, but it does. Because of Die Hard now he's an action star With Liam Neeson. It's like with Taken now he's an action star Because Liam Neeson didn't do shit like that before that. You know.
Speaker 1:No, I mean he had occasionals.
Speaker 2:But Sure, but I mean he was more of the love actually type actor before that. You know what I mean. Well, I mean he had like plenty't those type. Those weren't the Taken type archetypes.
Speaker 1:No, no post-Taken. And then you get the Grey and then like the Commuter, and now it's just a cookie cutter kind of vibe to all of his stuff.
Speaker 2:And don't forget, you had three Taken movies.
Speaker 1:Oh, how could I possibly forget all three Taken movies? You know what I possibly forget all three taken movies.
Speaker 2:You know what I? I have seen all three.
Speaker 1:I couldn't tell you what happens in most of them I mean, I think I got the first one down and the second one is why because I think that's the famke jansen gets kidnapped. Does that sound right? Three I have no recollection of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have, I don't, I have.
Speaker 1:Is it his dog Does his dog get taken.
Speaker 2:It's his ferrets.
Speaker 1:His family, ferrets, gets taken.
Speaker 2:Togo gets kidnapped, Wait Pogo and Kodo.
Speaker 1:Is that what? No, Pogo and Kodo.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's one of the other reasons I wanted to talk about action boys, which I know you'll never listen to, but it's so funny to me because they have these running bits where they just like us, where they continue over to other episodes and they have this whole thing.
Speaker 2:They started off with talking about how bad like chris pratt is about, like apparently he proselytizes on set all the time that doesn't surprise me at all like like zachary, levi, you know, and until I don't know how they got to it, but like they have all these reoccurring characters because they do a lot of impressions, one of which is dar from from beastmaster, which cracks me up every fucking time. Yeah, one of the other ones is robocop not not peter, weller robocop, and then. And so they always have this running bit about how, because it started in one episode about how, like what if robocop was in jurassic world? And he kept proselytizing to robocop who's like, look man, I've got it covered. Like leave me alone, like I am the messiah figure, like I get it. Just I'm just trying to get stuff off of the food table, leave me alone. And we just insert Dar in there constantly Like, hey guys, what's up?
Speaker 2:You guys need anything done. It's so fucking funny. It just kills me Because that's exactly what you and I would do. But I totally see the Liam Ne, what you and I would do. But I totally see the Liam Neeson thing I do. I think that's a really good answer. But I have two. One is, I think, a little weak. The other one I think is, I think, dead on. The weak one, I think, is Gerard Butler. Okay, I can looking through because I've watched recently. I've watched a lot of Gerard Butler movies, so 2B you are poisoning your brain well, I watch a lot of 2B okay, 2b.
Speaker 2:Their recommendations are sadly spot on for the most part. If I'm in a certain mood, oh, that's a. That's another funny reoccurring bit from Action Boys they always do. Hell comes to Frogtown when, oh, put your top on. Oh, no, no, no, no, put your top on. So, like Gerard Butler, he does a lot of weird big swings but also he's kind of samey. In a lot of his films he's the action guy Like I mentioned over text. I have seen I forgot that I had seen, but I have seen Den of Thieves, which I still need to see.
Speaker 2:It's okay. I don't think you're gonna love it.
Speaker 1:I think there's a reason I didn't see it in the first place right, exactly, but people love it people fucking love that movie, which is why I feel like I need to see it yeah, and you know what it's.
Speaker 2:For that reason it's worth it. I think it's okay. I don't think it's great. I don't think it's what everybody thinks it is. I think there are like everybody who watches that. I just go watch Heat instead, the Michael Mann movie.
Speaker 1:Well, maybe it's because they don't have three and a half hours to watch Heat. Maybe that's why.
Speaker 2:That actually might be part of it. But yeah, whatever. I mean Gerard Butler's stuff is really kind of samey. He flips back and forth. You know he has done a lot of like sci-fi stuff, but it's mostly sci-fi action, disaster stuff. So I mean that's kind of whatever. But like a lot of his stuff is like oh, I'm a drunk cop who cheats on his wife or whatever, and that's my role. I mean he's done or whatever, and that's my role. I mean he's done. I've even watched recently a couple of like actual just straight-up dramas that he's done, which sadly bored the shit out of me.
Speaker 1:But what's a straight-up drama. He's done.
Speaker 2:He did one where his kid got cancer. Fuck what is it.
Speaker 1:A Family man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, A Family man that's fucked up that.
Speaker 1:I just like looked at his films family man, that's fucked up that. I just like looked at his films like, wow, that's the one.
Speaker 2:That's weird, that it.
Speaker 1:Well, it is the one that is the one I watched it yesterday and it's like, yeah, it's okay, it's fine is there one where he's like a ghost, or you?
Speaker 2:might be thinking of Liam Neeson in high spirits.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure there's one where he's a ghost or, like his dad, would wait, is it PS? I love you, is that?
Speaker 2:Oh, we don't need any of PS.
Speaker 1:I love you, yes a young widow discovers that her late husband has left her 10 messages intended to help ease her pain and start a new life. So he's like constantly like there, but kind of in a ghostly form, just like a memory. Again it was like oh, he's gonna be A leading man.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, because they did, they did. They did try to insert him in a lot of rom-coms early on too, but I mean he just, first of all he's bad at an american accent so it never really hit and a lot of the movies he did were is bad. But you know, just like bronson, he did work constantly. Gerard bartler works all the time. He very rarely it seems turns down a role, because there will be years where he puts out like three movies a year, like he's just always working and I get that totally good for him. But most of the roles are kind of the same and he is just kind of an action guy who plays like oh, I'm a cop, or I'm an ex-cop who's dirty, or I'm a crook or you know what I mean like it's all, I'm a cop who was a crook, who became a cop again or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know like I mean that's that it's kind of jar of other. But here's my real, here's my real answer okay, all right jason staith yeah, yeah yeah, and not just because he did the remake of the mechanic hey, some, I mean it's. There's a reason that the the bruce willis fits so well too yeah, I want yes, though I, though I think you and I both agree bruce willis is not the guy.
Speaker 1:No, no, but I, I get, I think later career.
Speaker 2:Bruce willis fell into that hole that jason statham has just always been in yeah, well, and you know what the sad part is sidebar about, about the bruce willis, is that because he has dementia and apparently a lot of the movies that he starred in, even going back quite a while actually, he had no idea what was going on. Whomever was managing him was just profiting off of. Hey, I'm going to put Bruce Willis in this movie, I'm going to fly him in for one day to record. And Willis had no clue. He could memorize his lines sometimes, but like, apparently he like there were certain moments, like even right before the end of his like big chunk of his career, he like he would have a gun and he was in a shot and he was supposed to like, know, shoot at a certain time, and he would just randomly shoot because he had no idea what was happening. So like I think the late stage of his career is really hard to judge because he wasn't even conscious of it. He was like stan lee at the end of his life.
Speaker 2:You know they were just propping him up, you know like, and Bruce Willis very obviously, I mean, since he doesn't make public appearances now, like, it's pretty clear that he's not. You know, he doesn't know what the fuck's going on, and no, but with Statham he is. He plays basically the same character every time. Yep, you know some the same character every time. Yep, you know some, you know variations on it. It's not always the same character, but it's always basically the same character, even if, like, whatever plot, you know demands, whatever, yeah, but he's always statham, but there's never, there's never statham playing a character.
Speaker 1:It's, it's, here's jason stath in a film.
Speaker 2:Sure, except except there are some movies because I because after I went down this rabbit hole I started watching a bunch of Jason Statham films and then. So I went through that whole rigmarole and, yeah, for the most part he's just playing Jason Statham. There are roles where he's different because, like, like a lot of those roles, they are the Walter Hill hard times, you know Bronson thing where he's like he's not really a character, he's more of like a force of nature that moves throughout the world or whatever. But I watched a couple of movies with actually a lot of really good actors in it where you know, like he does have more subtlety, he has more like nuance and stuff what were these?
Speaker 2:fuck, I watched one yesterday actually and I don't remember the name of it. There's one where he's like where it's got the Giren, giren Guillen who is in, who was Littlefinger in Game of Thrones. He was the villain, he was a. He was a serial cop killer.
Speaker 2:It's a UK exclusive, like it was shot and written, obviously, all in the UK oh in that movie, like Statham plays a guy that's like way more like nuanced than his normal characters not to say that he's like three-dimensional, but more substance than most of his characters, because they talk about ptsd and like go out of a way to say he's a homophobe in modern times, which is like really weird.
Speaker 2:It's not even a good movie necessarily, but it's got a bunch of really good actors in it and some really interesting stuff. But that's why he reminds me of bronson. Like bronson will play these characters that you just go, oh, he's all the same guy. But then when you watch them, yeah, you'll agree with that. But then every now and then you're like wait, no, yeah, he's playing the same guy, but he's not. He's doing something really interesting here. Or this movie is way more than what we think it is, or his role is more than we think it is, or his role is more than we think it is. I have to. I have to think honestly that Statham is the modern Bronson.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I think that's a good call. I mean, obviously there's a you know the, the next generation of action stars kind of had to incorporate like a lot of martial arts in there. And then Statham is the generation after that. So instead of like you know, I'm a tough guy, blammo, he's like I'm a tough guy, kick and blammo.
Speaker 2:True, which is one of the reasons that I really liked hard times was because, like they don't rely on guns and they don't rely on like obviously, obviously martial, modern martial arts. Even though it came out in in the mid 70s, it's just two dudes like doing straight up like fisticuffs, you know, like it's so real and raw that I think it works on like every level. I fucking love that movie. It's. It's a really good one, and coburn, j James Coburn, is fucking great in it.
Speaker 1:I'm just going through all these Jason Statham movies. I've seen a lot of these. This is surprising to me.
Speaker 2:Right. Isn't it weird that you've seen more than you think? I've even seen Beekeeper.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Beekeeper's fun. I've heard the Working man is even better, supposedly Beekeeper's fun.
Speaker 2:I've heard the working man is even better supposedly Beekeeper's like their effects and their staging and everything is really bad though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm also watching the Beekeeper, so I keep my expectations low.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but even his work on Hobbs and Shaw is better. Hobbs and Shaw is not better. Transporter. The Transporter films I think is better. Hobbs and Shaw is not better Transporter. The Transporter films I think are better. Yeah, I just mean effects-wise and everything, because, like, there are moments where you're like, oh those are digital squibs and oh he's on a green screen instead of actually being where they are In beekeeper, you know, it's like it just feels cheap, it feels low budget, it feels b movie, it looks b movie I concur with those things yeah, but but like a lot of his other movies don't do like.
Speaker 2:He does have a lot of movies that don't look that way or feel that way like, surprisingly, except for the one with jet lee where he's got that terrible fucking wig on the entire time, which you're like, dude. Just let's be honest.
Speaker 1:I think at that point he was like that was his. I mean he'd been in the two Guy Ritchie things and then which he's great in. I think I mean it probably. I mean is Snatch still the best film he's ever been in?
Speaker 2:Probably.
Speaker 1:Unless you count Collateral. But he's barely in Collateral.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean Collateral is probably is that Donner, that's Donner, right Collateral.
Speaker 1:No, it's not Collateral. Is Mann, am I right? Yeah, michael Mann.
Speaker 2:Is it Michael Mann? Is man? Am I right? Yeah, michael man. Is it michael man? Is it michael? I thought it was donner. Either way, yeah, I mean, that is, I think, objectively his best movie, but you're right, he's not in it yeah, it's not him, it's not his film no, it's not.
Speaker 1:It's not a, you know, it's not a statham film or anything I mean, I would have forgotten he was even in it, unless I saw him in the credits. It's just like. I mean it's you don't remember javier bardem being in that film?
Speaker 2:you know right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like. It's like in when you're watching fear and loathe of las vegas, you're like, oh, christopher maloney's in this one scene, oh yeah, we're like oh toby mcguire oh, you totally right you know, oh, christina rishi's in this. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah it's, it's that kind of thing, yeah, but yeah, I mean for a movie that kind of features him, yeah, that's probably. That's probably his best film.
Speaker 1:It's honestly one of tom cruise's best film, I mean as an actor yeah, I think you have those, those swings where they, like, they step outside their comfort zone.
Speaker 2:You know, and it can really, you know, boost who and what they are which tom cruise is one of those guys like we talked about earlier where, like he does not, he's it can really, you know, boost who and what they are, which Tom Cruise is one of those guys like we talked about earlier, where, like he does not, he's just Tom Cruise in every movie, yeah, even in, which is why Collateral sticks out, or his little bit in that comedy, tropic Thunder.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that, yeah, yeah, but even that I feel like he's just playing Tom Cruise in a fat suit.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes, but at least it's different, at least it's a little different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, at least it's not just Tom Cruise being Tom Cruise. Yeah, but yeah, well, that's my pick. I think Scream is the the modern, and not just because he did remake a couple of Bronson films. He's filled that void, that weird void that Bronson created in the 80s, that weird subset of 80s action dudes that we have talked about many times with Schwarzenegger and even Lundgren and maybe even Chuck Norris. You know like he fills that. He fills that void Bronson does until basically 1990. And then Statham just like is that guy? He's just like, he's that subset dude.
Speaker 1:He's a weird mix of the two in a way because, like Bronson, had that like everyman kind of quality that I think you know that like every man kind of quality that I think you know bruce willis kind of took that ball and ran with it and 100 led to your liam neeson's and your your keanu reeves's and stuff like that john wick, for sure, yeah but statham still has that.
Speaker 1:Like you know, jean-claude van damme meets bronson where it's's like he's a little everyman-ish but he's also a super athletic, well-trained, not-your-normal guy. So I think he has these films where, like the Beekeeper or A Working man, you know, or Wrath of man or something like that where it's like. Alright, you know he has this everyman-ish kind of quality and, you know, very toned down affect, but also it's like he could do martial arts things that you know 1% of the populace can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's true, and Bronson, like to his credit, like was one of those weird guys where he was like like crazy cut and like like if you, he's only that. I can remember he's only taken his shirt off like a handful of times in movies because not enough for me.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you that he has shirt off a bit more like the old westerns, where he was a little younger oh, hopefully not that one where he plays the native american his shirt off is often there, yeah, the whole time the whole time. I know, I know I that's, that's a really bad but he's a good looking dude? Well, he's not, but like, like, I think for his body.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll go kind of a can we call him a butterface kind of kind of sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, if anybody, if anybody is, and one of the reasons I love hard times is because it's like one of the only times he doesn't have a mustache and his mustache is notoriously terrible.
Speaker 1:It's terrible, yeah, but it's so terrible, like who's gonna tell him he has a bad mustache right.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, he's gonna kick the shits that you know I even don't talk about. But like we wouldn't have blood sport if it weren't for hard times, you know, or kick, or kickboxer, or lionheart lionheart probably is the most close to Hard Times, but I mean, like the difference in those movies is that In Hard Times Bronson is just this like wandering Ronan, and in Lionheart they try and make you care more about that character's motivation. You don't need that. In Hard Times it's more about everybody around him, like Coburn.
Speaker 2:Lionheart and hard times are essentially the same movie, but you don't root for the dude that plays his corner man in lionheart like you do for coburn. Or well, I'm not gonna say root for hair about the dude that plays his corner man in lionheart as much as you do for coburn in in hard times. Even though they're almost identical characters. I mean they do the exact same beats. The all of the plot points are exactly the same. The only things that are different in lionheart is that they add that whole thing about his like brother's wife and all that. Other than that, it's the same movie.
Speaker 1:You know, if anything, maybe we might need to do a twofer cast, a compare and contrast, if it were A hard heart.
Speaker 2:A double impact.
Speaker 1:A double team A lion times.
Speaker 2:Okay, we've now created our own another new sub podcast.
Speaker 1:Where we combine some movie with a Bronson film.
Speaker 2:Well, it's better than doing it with Seagal, I guess.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I'd much rather go through. I mean, like I've never seen Hard Times, so Great movie, great Walter Hill movie. Well shot, well done it's like I'd love to watch a good movie for this podcast. Generally, we only watch bad things. Well, yeah, I know, so it'd be fun to watch. Like, all right, we watch Hard Times and Lionheart and, like you know, yeah, Discuss them.
Speaker 2:Actually, that would be fun.
Speaker 1:Compare and contrast, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would actually be a fun time, one kind of led to the other. Yeah, that would be fun actually, because then you could do like Dark City and the Matrix or you know like you could do. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You could do that, That'd be fun. Or I mean you could even do a Cabinet of Dr Caligari in Dark City. You know, it depends on, like, how far back you want to go or what you want to do, how pretentious.
Speaker 2:you want to be what I don't, oh, okay.
Speaker 1:Now I'm just going down a rabbit hole. All right, what if we did Assassination Bronson and his wife In the line of fire? I was thinking Guarding Tess with Nicolas Cage.
Speaker 2:We're coming from different places there.
Speaker 1:They're both dark comedies about protecting the First Lady Sure, although Nicolas Cage and Charles Bronson are about as far apart as you can get.
Speaker 2:You know what, though that's a good angle, though, because I don't think a lot of podcasts do that, so if we did that, we might actually have a corner of market on an interesting genre. I think that's a very good idea, and I think we should write that down and and pursue that of pairing a bronson film with a. Well, just like one film to another, you know, like what led to this one, what this film led to this one. You know what I mean. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I think that actually, I think that actually might have some traction.
Speaker 1:There is. There's a podcast called the next picture show and usually a newer movie. They always pair with like an older movie. That's similar or Okay, so kind of a similar idea, but they do like one episode for each film and then after the second episode they kind of do a little like compare and contrast kind of thing and whatnot Debrief yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 2:For our thing, I think it works. That's really interesting actually.
Speaker 1:Oh shit, apparently Bronson and Mark Singer did a film together of Jack London's the Seawolf. What's the odds of this? That's wild, that is great. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:All right, well, we can, I'll put that there, man, I had another thing I was gonna say, but I can't remember it now, so don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, you know what. You know. Who's not gonna worry about it?
Speaker 2:this guy yeah, no, you're not gonna at all, that's fine.