Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Geeks explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Archie Never Dies (Except that One Time)
Dive into the remarkable transformation of America's longest-running comic book franchise as we explore how Archie Comics evolved from wholesome teenage stories to groundbreaking horror, genre-bending crossovers, and multimedia dominance.
The year 2009 marked a pivotal turning point when John Goldwater Jr. took the reins following the passing of the previous leadership. What followed was nothing short of revolutionary—Archie Comics became the first major publisher to embrace same-day digital releases, introduced Riverdale's first openly gay character Kevin Keller, and ventured into mature storytelling with "Life with Archie," which culminated in Archie's heroic death protecting Senator Keller from assassination.
Most surprising was Archie's bold foray into horror with titles like "Afterlife with Archie" and "The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina," reimagining these beloved characters in genuinely terrifying scenarios. We examine how these titles weren't merely shock value but thoughtful explorations of the characters' relationships in extreme circumstances. Meanwhile, crossovers with everyone from the Punisher and Predator to KISS and the Ramones demonstrated the remarkable versatility of these iconic characters.
What makes Archie's evolution truly fascinating is how these characters function as universal archetypes that work across genres—whether in post-apocalyptic wastelands, mecha anime homages, or multiverse adventures. This adaptability has allowed Archie to remain culturally relevant across multiple generations and media formats, from comics to television hits like "Riverdale" and "Sabrina."
The enduring appeal of Archie Comics lies in its representation of an idealized American teenage experience—a nostalgic foundation that, when combined with a willingness to evolve with the times, has enabled this franchise to thrive for nearly a century. Join us as we celebrate how Archie has managed to stay true to its essence while constantly reinventing itself for new audiences and changing times.
Subscribe now and share your favorite Archie memories or modern interpretations in the comments!
Perfect chughead. Fuck you, Moose. Get in there, Reggie. Gentlemen. Let's broaden our minds.
SPEAKER_00:I mean the proper approach, button for today. Negative. Oh button! Charge the lightning field.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think they made that Archie comic, but I can't be sure.
SPEAKER_02:It's hard to say. They did do a lot of weird stuff. They did a lot of weird stuff. We will get to that. Well, welcome back to Dispatch HX. I'm Skip MJ. That's true. We are going to finish up with Archie today, and the reason we did so many episodes about Archie is because Archie got weird. Long time Yeah, there's a lot of Archie out there, you know? We don't think about it, but it's actually a mainstay of American comics for nearly a century now. And pop culture. And pop culture in general. And they not only put out a lot of stuff, they put a lot of stuff you didn't know was Archie or or even related to Archie, and is remarkably successful. So we are finally in sort of like the final phase of Archie. By final I mean up to now. It's Archie, the endgame. Oh man, so many people die. Some of your favorite characters. Actually, that is true. Yeah. Yeah. If the post-2000 or post-90s Archie was the Renaissance, with all their weird crossovers and quirks and interesting things they tried to do, then post-2009-2010 is the enlightenment of Archie. And so we're gonna cover both of those in finality today. Indeed.
SPEAKER_01:So we were in the 90s before. We did a little detour through Sonic, which was a property that was very important to Archie Comics as a whole, helping them business-wise, and then really giving them a platform to reach a different set of customers and readers that they hadn't before. And that started in 92, 93, but they were still doing stuff in actual Archie Dem during this time. So in 94, you had what's what's termed the love showdown between Betty and Veronica. Now this love triangle got a major boost in 1984. Sorry, my notes are all uh screwed up. Uh I think Jughead uh was eating a burger and some of his ketchup fell on I think I think it was Wimpy and he framed uh Jughead, to be honest.
SPEAKER_02:See what happened here.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, the great the great Wimpy Jughead burger off the Burger Wars. Ah, the Burger Wars.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, somehow Taco Bell still came out on top. It was a harrowing time. We all remember how it affected our lives, how many brave men and women were lost in the Burger Wars. Many Bothins died to bring you this these burger wars. We had fatigue after the Cola Wars and the chicken sandwich skirmishes of the uh 2020s, but the burger wars really are a lasting scar on society. Poor one out for all those who lost in the great burger catastrophe. For a man named Whippy, he sure held out for a long time. Like the Blitz. I'm proud of him. I'm proud of you, Whippy. I really am. It was an ironic name. Like Tiny. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, he went through the essentially the Dunkirk of the burger wars.
SPEAKER_01:He he was olive oil's secret lover because hey, he ate burgers and she ate hot dog, if you know what I'm saying. That wasn't that wasn't wimpy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I could really go down that. I'm not gonna uh I bet you could slide right down that olive oil.
SPEAKER_01:Um Alright, so for this love showdown between Betty and Veronica in the 90s, Archie receives a letter, and it's a secret letter, and so they're trying to figure out who it is, and over the course of many months and several titles, the readers finally find out who this mystery woman who was reaching out to Archie was, and it was Cheryl Blossom. The Cheryl Blossom was last seen in 1985. The return of Cheryl was met with much enthusiasm, so much so that she was featured in several titles over the next few years until she was given her own comic in 1997, when Jason Blossom was also resurrected at this time. And then in 1985, Archie became the official ambassador for the United Cerebal Palsy Association. The characters endorsed healthy lifestyle choices and staying away from drugs and alcohol. Thanks, Archie. Lame. I don't dare you to say that to Archie's face. Oh, I'd say to his face. I'd dub his books. I know, it was the the dare thing. Also, in the late 90s in 1996, to be to be precise, Showtime produced a full-length feature film starring Sabrina, the teenage witch.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:This starred Melissa Joan Hart and was such a hit that she went on to get her own TV show on ABC that lasted almost a decade and really gave Melissa Joan Hart career.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Made her a household name. In 1997. That in the Hallmark Channel. Well, you know, get in where you fit in. In 1997, Archie pushes forward in an area that a lot of the competitors of Archie were really kind of lagging behind and really brought comics into a new realm. Archie Comics Online debuts in 1997. That's really ahead of the time. Yeah, it was a whole different AOL disc that you got there. It was in the form of a burger or jughead crown.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, we were literally at that point still this defining what cyberspace was. We were still dealing with cyberpunk at that point. And they've already moved into that space.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, this is this is a I don't even know. Do we have land connections at this point? I mean, other than universities and big corporations, I think this was still mostly dial up at this point in 1997. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I mean, it's around to that time. Yeah. So Archie keeps chugging along. In 2000, we get Archie's 500th issue. In 2001, Archie Comics Entertainment LLC is finally established. Finally. In 2004, IDT Entertainment buys an equity stake in Archie Comics Entertainment. And then we get to the early 2000s. John Goldwater, John's son, took over in 2009 after the death of Richard Goldwater and Michael Silverclite.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they those were the two oldest. They were the sons of the original founders.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:The oldest sons. They really wanted to maintain the classic Archie image, which includes not just the aesthetic, but also the tone and the messaging, form of storytelling, though that had already become sort of increasingly stale. They ended up being kind of litigious. For instance, a trademark lawsuit against Warner Music Group in 2005, because they promoted and released an album by the Veronicas, which is, of course, an Archie reference, but I mean that seems a little that seems like a stretch. In an interview with the New York Times, Michael Silverclate told the reporter that, quote, the importance of the image of Archie, which everybody knows is good, clean, and wholesome stuff, without that image we're nothing. So then that was like a real downtime, and we'll get into some of the other other stuff that they tried to innovate with, you know, multimedia Archie cross-pollination, vertical integration kind of shit, in a bit. But I mean, this was kind of a dark time for Archie. They tried to do some new stuff. They did some interesting things, like some of the crossovers we're gonna talk about, but they were steadfast and holding on to the look and the aesthetic of Archie so much that it kept them from being innovative in any real meaningful way. And it wasn't until both of them died of cancer within a year of each other, which is fucking crazy. And it sounds like they were killed by a supervillain secretly. You mean the fathers. The original patriarchs died from cancer within a year of each other. And then Richard Goldwater's half-brother, John, gave up his career as a music executive to keep Archie in the family. Then John Goldwater Jr. became the Archie comic CEO and publisher in 2009. And Goldwater and Silverclyde's eldest sons, Richard and Michael, were co-CEOs. Lewis's son died around the same time that the original Goldwater CEO died. So Richard Goldwater and Michael Silverclite took over the company as co-CEOs from their fathers in 1983. Both of those dudes died. Wasn't Richard Richard was John's oldest son. It was a legacy thing.
SPEAKER_01:I thought John Goldwater was John's son.
SPEAKER_02:He is. He's Richard's half-brother. And he's older than John, Jr. So the two matriarchs the matriarchs, Jesus Christ. The two patriarchs who created who founded Archie Comics, they retired in 83. Each of their eldest sons became co-CEOs, and then they both died within a year of each other of cancer in 2009. Richard's half-brother. Who we're talking about? Both Michael and Richard died. The original CEOs. No, the sons of the original founders both died of cancer in 2009, within a year of each other. And they were the eldest sons of the founders. Gotcha. The half-brother of Richard, John Jr., gave up his career as a music executive, and that's in 2009 when everything changes. That's John Goldwater Jr. He becomes CEO and publisher. John Goldwater died in 1999. But that's where we are at this point. During the 83 to 2009 period was this kind of tumultuous thing where they tried different multimedia stuff and different approaches, but they also didn't want to change the content tone or direction of the books, and so they became a bit of a parody of themselves. They didn't change with the times, and so they lost relevancy essentially, and they kind of faded into the background. Though they had a loyal enough following with nostalgia and constant publication, and some of the innovations that they tried to do toward the end of their lives, they were kind of thought of as a Joe, or for kids, or for old people. And in 2009, things really start to change. John Goldwater Jr. seems to understand the way the wind is blowing. If they want to stay relevant, they're going to have to do some serious changes. So John Goldwater Jr. did implemented a lot of reforms. He had uh quite a task, and I touched on this briefly in our first episode. His half-brother and and Michael Silbercly wanted to maintain a certain and you you can understand why they wanted to maintain a certain reverence and loyalty to the original aesthetic and storytelling visions of their fathers. It's kind of the Clark Hunt scenario, like how do you update by keeping it the same, you know? But uh John Jr. came in and he had an outside perspective. You know, he wasn't too close to the scenario, so he realized that they had to they were gonna have to do some stuff. And instead of doing an Arch Deluxe McDonald's rebrand that was a failure, they decided to do something that was more culturally relevant and that actually examined where culture was and where culture was going before they started just carte blanche rebooting. Because a hard reboot would have really alienated their original fans. If they tried to do the Masters of the Universe reboot, where they're suddenly they're in the future and it's not called Eternia anymore, you're gonna fail, and that's why that show ended up sucking. But if you take it a context where Archie is in society currently, where he could fit in why he would be relevant, bring in some talent, really think out how these things are gonna evolve, and take a modern approach that isn't a culture shock, then it might work. And, crazily enough, it did. When he was handed the reins, the distribution of Archie Comics digests in places like grocery stores, like we had mentioned before, or like Walden Books, or places like that in malls or or whatever, kind of kept it alive, basically either through nostalgia or price point, and the ironic early online presence of Archie kept it like in the forefront of media consumption. But now we're really gonna have to rethink the identity. And the Archie Comics app premiered in 2010, making it really easy to find old back issues and new issues coming off the shelves. So it was actually the first major American comics publisher to offer new digital issues on the same release date as the printed copies. It made them cutting edge, it made their distribution model more efficient, and actually reached a bigger audience because they really weren't selling a lot in comic book stores, they were selling basically in other ancillary media, in a different format. So this kind of really brought their actual original comics format back into maybe relevancy, but also at least sort of like it was seen more. On September 1st, 2010, Veronica number 202 introduced Riverdale's first openly gay character, Kevin Keller. And then soon after, Life with Archie No. 1 debuted, which was supposed to be Archie being an adult, and not just some teenage kid in Riverdale forever, which sounds like a horrible like Twilight Zone episode. The weird thing was that this series, it featured him being married to both Betty and Veronica in two separate timelines to see how those would unfold. I don't know why that worked, but it did. People were fascinated.
SPEAKER_01:It's always interesting to see the changes and and you know, if you take the different path how that might go. And this is the I mean, Archie the Ultimate can't decide between X and Y.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so let's see where they both went. It's Marianne and Ginger, it's Betty and Veronica. I mean, I mean these are these are classic like tropes in American pop culture. Kind of Mary, Jane, and Gwen, but Gwen died, so that's weird. There's a lot going on there. But Lana and Lois, you know, it's this whole like, I have different relationships with different people. How am I going to negotiate those? Which is better? And I mean that goes across all sorts of pop culture.
SPEAKER_01:So I mean, it's it's it's in lost with Kate and Sawyer versus Jack, you know, like it's it's a universal story, which is one of the reasons that it's persisted and is so culture relevant to this day.
SPEAKER_02:And somehow it worked, and it became popular, and then so Kevin Keller go would go on to start in his own series, and Life with Archie was a big hit. It didn't have a lot of sex or violence, but it was adult because it dealt with adult issues. Not like Capital A adult, but like, you know, you know, just things about being an adult. And it dealt with some really we talked about it a little bit, but some actually controversial stuff like gun control and same-sex marriage, the economy. And then, of course, the series ended with issue 36 in 2014, with Archie sacrificing his life to stop an assassination attempt on Kevin, who was now a US senator. It was in the top 30 best-selling comics of that month, selling nearly 30 times as many copies as the issue before it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Because in the 2010s, uh, the monthly comic books were being outsold three to one by the digests. And in 2014, sales for Archie comics had dropped below 10,000 copies an issue.
SPEAKER_00:Oof.
SPEAKER_01:So some of this life with Archie stuff, especially the death of Archie, was really a shot in the arm. Uh big time, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so now they're gonna they realize this is lucrative and people are responding well to it, so they're going, like, well, let's go down the rabbit hole. Then premieres Afterlife with Archie, a horror title. Which sounds weird on its surface, but if you really think about the history of Archie, they've dabbled in this before in many ways with Sabrina the Teenage Witch and certain other titles. They all have always kind of dipped their toes in the supernatural, the horror side of things. Not quite the sanitized version that you see in like Harvey comics with Casper, but something more a little darker, a little dark twinge, and now they're just going to embrace it. So they do Afterlife with Archie with Roberto Aguirre Sakasa and art by Francesco Villacavilla. Francavia is Francavia. I don't know why I'm an idiot. In this one, they talk about Sabrina, who accidentally unleashes a zombie virus, a supernatural zombie outbreak. Because she's trying to revive the dead dog of Archie's best friend, Jughead, but it backfires, and Jughead is the first citizen of Riverdale to become a zombie. This is essentially the exact plot of Simpsons Tree House of Horror either two or three, where they find a book of spells and Lisa tries to resurrect Snowball, their dead cat, and then unfortunately raises the dead. And it has that great scene where they go to their dad, we need your help. You're like, Did you wreck the car? No. Did you raise the dead? Yes. But the car's okay. So so this is where it starts getting super weird. And we did talk about this a little bit before. Archie is forced to kill a zombie version of his father. He kills zombie Cheryl Blossom and her infected twin brother with a machete, like 28 days later. So this is a quote from a Vox article by Oliver Salva. Quote: All of this antithetical to the Archie tradition of kid-friendly comic hijinks, but afterlife with Archie isn't just giving Riverdale a superficial horror makeover. The creative team is using these genre elements to explore the world of Archie comics from a new angle, and this fresh context brings out different aspects of the character relationships while upending the expectations of what an Archie story should look like. And I think that's true. That ended up being a pretty popular book as well. Also in 2014, they launched The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, which was an homage to EC horror comics of the 70s, but it still maintained Sabrina's like 1950s aesthetic at the same time. And that was also the same year that they announced the development of the TV adaptation of Archie, the most modern TV adaptation of Archie, Riverdale, which was to air on the CW under the direction of Greg Berlante of The Aeroverse, former comic book writer turned mid-range TV quality universe, The Aeroverse. Though he gotta say, he had a lot of successes, so did something right. And that brought even more modern eyes toward the Archie imprint, and the brand started really picking up. And the Goldwater decided to do the same approach to the entire Archie line with a creative overhaul. And so the Chili Adventures of Sabrina did culminate with the official debut of a new Archie imprint, the Archie horror imprint, that tries to dive into this relatively popular new angle on Riverdale. So this led to, of course, like I said, a creative overhaul in the actual books themselves. So in 2015, there was the founding of Dark Circle Comics, which was a sub-imprint of Archie, I'm guessing in reference to Red Circle Comics in the 70s, which was their attempt to go back into the superhero branch of Archie Comics, which is how it started in the first place. Dark Circle Comics, which is also a rehashing of Impact Comics, published by DC Comics that just sort of leased these Archie superhero characters in the 90s, included superheroes like The Fox, The Black Hood, The Shield, and The Hangman and The Web. And this was done by some relatively high profile writers and artists, including Mark Wade, and that went on for a while. I don't think that imprint is still around. I don't think that's because that was 10 years ago. I don't think it's still around. It was probably short-listed. Yeah. But at least they try, you know? And of course, then that same year, they straight up rebooted Archie itself with writer Mark Wade and artist Fiona Staples of Saga Fame.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, this is because the Archie, long-running Archie comics, ends with issue 666 on June 30, June 3rd, 2015. And you have Archie number one relaunching July 8th. But not everything at this time was smooth sailing flowing off the back of this excitement and success. Archie decided to utilize some of their like always being first to things and pushing ahead. What if we try to crowdfund some new titles to really get them out there and get them get them launched? So they started a Kickstarter aiming to raise$350,000 to accelerate the launch of three new comic books spinning out of that summer's relaunch. The series were Jughead, Betty and Veronica, and Life with Kevin, all featuring Adam Hughes, Chip Zadarsky, and Dan Parent. This was unfortunately met with an extreme backlash. A lot of people were very angry at this, and they had to cancel that Kickstarter and issue apologies. For those who did donate to the Kickstarter during the short tenure, I think there were 642 people who did, raising$34,000. They received a quote unquote special thank you gift from the publisher, according to Archie CEO John Gold.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like that was all culture war backlash, too, that it wasn't it was like manufactured controversy. I don't know that it was like Archie fans that were upset about it. I I it feels like it was culture war stuff, you know, the you know, the right-wing special interest groups upset that Kevin had his own title, that kind of thing. It could be.
SPEAKER_01:These are all books that did come out. They were all planned to come out. This is just like trying to push them a little bit sooner, and I just don't think it was met well. But that didn't mean that, as you said, when Archie, the main title ended and new Archie started in July, that it wasn't a huge deal. And and really putting Archie on the map again as something new and exciting for both longtime fans and new readers to engage with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, because now you have a huge new audience with that and with Riverdale coming into the CW sort of ecosystem. They things are actually looking up for Archie. They seem to have found a new Gen Z audience, and that's a big deal because if a new generation of people pick up on an old property, then it's gonna last for a while.
SPEAKER_01:The Archie's new title, The New Numbering Started. Again, this was kind of a more updated both look and feel to Archie. In the end of 2018, at issue, which would have been 33 of the new series, they took the old numbering of the original series, 699, so they could have a big 700th issue in January of 2019, and that book did last up until September 2020, ending at issue 713.
SPEAKER_02:This is where you get, if I remember right, the launch of the new imprint, Archie Blue Ribbon. Okay, so Archie Blue Ribbon was it was released in 2020, where they did a sort of uh Bruce Tim sort of take visually on uh Betty and Veronica, starting with the title Betty and Veronica The Bond of Friendship in April of 2020, and then Riverdale, The Ties That Bind in November of 2020. It said, see, Alex Segura, who's now Archie Comics co-president, which is good for them. He said, quote, the biggest growth in comics can be seen in bookstores and in the young adult space, and our characters are so perfectly suited to tell these types of stories. I have to point to our growing partnership with Scholastic as a big eye-opener. That's interesting. It showed us there's a strong young adult readership from our IP, and it goes along with the huge awareness created by our media adaptations like Riverdale and Sabrina. It felt like the perfect time to really dive into the space and format.
SPEAKER_01:Because these were original graphic novels they're producing at this time. I think very similar to the young adult stuff that DC was putting out at a similar time.
SPEAKER_02:I do believe this was also relatively short-lived. That was only five years ago, and I've never heard of them. So I'm pretty sure it didn't last all that long. But they took another swing. And these are a little standalone-ish, so they're not really failures, no matter what, because it didn't necessarily need to lead to a new re you know, imagining of the entire universe. These are sort of like when they used to put out the the comic versions of like that main the animated series or Superman Adventures or whatever. They could they could kind of live on their own in these forms for specific audiences and still work.
SPEAKER_01:So they weren't which is something that I think Archie has excelled at, trying out new things and trying to stay relevant with what is interesting and new and popular, whether that's you know, like their big overhaul reboot, similar to the Riverdale series, where it's like modern art in a modern time, their graphic novels, they're designed for younger readers, or you know, just capturing what is popular around them at the time.
SPEAKER_02:As much as the pre-2009 era was a little stuck in its ways, it did do some other weird stuff. Not just crossovers that you're gonna talk about, but also there was a period between 2007 and 2010 when they did try to do some different looks and different feels aesthetically and storytelling-wise, that were sort of testing the waters for what would eventually come under John Jr. They did once again, these are digest forms, so it's one of the reasons that we don't really think about them that much. But you did Bad Boy Trouble in Betty and Veronica Double Digest in 2007, an art called The Matchmakers in Jughead's Double Digest in 2008, Breakup Blues in Archie's Pals and Gals Double Digest from 2008 to 2009, My Father's Betrayal in Betty and Veronica Double Digest in May-August 2009, Goodbye Forever, Archie's Double Digest July to November 2009, A Funny Kind of Love in Archie Pals and Gals from 2009 to 2010, and then No Baseball for Betty, okay, in Betty and Veronica Double Digest in 2010. And I think those were the last of the digest exclusive arcs that they were doing. These were a complete aesthetic breakaway. And you can get them on Comixology. At least it used to be. I don't know if you still can, but these were aesthetically different. They were a more modern look. To be honest, the art kind of sucks. I don't think it's high quality, and they still kind of stick to a lot of the archy setups. But it did have some creators that were kind of famous. Terry Austin did some of the writing, or no, some of the inking, actually, which is, you know, that's not even a job anymore. Norman Brayfogel did some of the artwork. There was an attempt. We don't really think about this era because it only lasted until the reboot that we're talking about, but it is worth noting. Before John Jr. did know the writing was on the wall, they just didn't go all the way. And so that's something to at least look into. And like I said, these weren't even comic books, these were digest form only. Because that's what they thought they were now relegated to. John Jr., I think changed everybody's perspective on that.
SPEAKER_01:And something like the Double Digest, just Betty and Veronica's, you know, I mean, it started in 1987 and it's still going to this day, even though I think they've reverted back to collecting older stories. But yeah, with the reboot, obviously they're like progressing storytelling forward, but they have found ways to stay relevant and exciting for decades before that, and still going today. Now, a lot of this has come through something that's extremely popular, especially with smaller publications. You're Marvel and DC, they they definitely dominate everything. And so a way for a smaller company and smaller, less well-known characters is to cross-pollinate. Crossovers, special events where these characters meet each other is a big boom for sales and excitement. And Archie is no stranger to that. They have nigh on countless crossovers of a wide-ranging variety and quality. And we're talking a lot. Just as a preview here, you have Archie's encounter with Kiss, the band. Archie crossing over with the TV show Glee. Which kind of makes sense, really. Yeah, I do think one thing that Archie does well most of the time is choosing things that either fit like a glove together, something like Archie meets Glee, or something that's so off the wall you're automatically drawn to it. And we'll cover a bit of both of those in just a minute. Archie meets Batman66, the Adam West one. Oh, great. That's cool. Yeah. Archie meets Flash Gordon. Awesome. Archie and the Ramones. Archie versus Shark NATO. Oh boy. Archie meets Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Now this is 1991 at the beginning of Archie Comics producing TMNT books. This is a great crossover to uh bring those together. But you definitely have a lot of other really interesting things. As things progress with crossovers, especially when you see your heavy hitters crossovers, now I kind of was looking into which character has had the most crossovers. Now it's hard to really pin that down. If you're looking like unheralded crossovers, you're probably gonna look at someone like a character like Wolverine or Batman or Spider-Man. Spider-Man, yeah. Especially outside of the big two, one that I think I saw as a big heavy hitter would be Vampirella. Vampirella runs the gamut of crossovers, producing many, many crossovers over many decades and just like pumping them out with a wide variety of different companies, different characters, whether it's xenomorphs and aliens, or something like Archie Red Sonia Vampirella? Okay. The Holy Trinity, yeah. In that similar vein, you have like a Harley and Ivy meet Betty and Veronica.
SPEAKER_02:That's kind of that self aware later stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Tiny Titans meets little Archie. Okay. All right. Yeah. Or you start having further amalgamations here of like Jughead the Hunger versus Vamperonica. Wow. You're really mashing stuff together. You also have Archie, you know, versus Sharknado, Archie popping up in Gen 13 comics, along with other characters like Hellboy, Bone, and Wolverine. Wow, that's interesting. So for the 13th issue of Gen 13, the ongoing series, Wild Sword celebrated by having special covers, and Grunt transported the team to essentially a magical world of comics after trading his soul for a chromium edition of a comic book. Wildstorm got permission to have a bunch of famous comic book characters appear, like uh Hellboy Bone, Wolverine, Archie, Jughead, Betty, and Veronica. And J. Scott Campbell was able to draw in the traditional Archie style, as well as using his own particular style. It's particular, all right. It is particular. But you've also had you know Archie staying relevant a lot of times. They were popular, especially with Archie's 616 and 617, the storyline called Campaign Pains. And this is where you had Barack Obama and Sarah Palin show up. Good. It did do a boost for sales. I have no doubt. There were a couple that I try to go out of my way and check out. One of those being the classic Archie Meets Punisher. I had that one in digest form. Oh, did you? Yeah. So this is from 1994. They had editors' notes at the beginning of the issue discussing the origin of the comic. And it really flows out of Archie editorial being, you know, like, you know, it's like, hey, what's something weird we could do? What if what if Archie met Punisher? Huh? That'd be something. And everybody kind of stopped. It's like, that's an interesting idea. And they sent it over to Marvel editorial, and they're like, you're joking, right? Right. Oh, you're not joking? Alright, let's do it. Whatever. That's kind of how it happens. It's a fun tale. If you get a chance to read it, it's pretty well done. Punisher is looking to capture this criminal who kind of looks like a funky version of Archie, kind of like a doppelgagger. Oh, yeah. And so this fake Archie travels to Riverdale and the Punisher chases after him. Obviously, hijinks ensue when Punisher actually meets Archie and mistakes him for this other guy. Archie's able to survive that first encounter. They have this back and forth. Alright, yeah, yeah, Archie isn't this criminal, while this fake Archie has inserted himself into the Riverdale lifestyle and is is trying to we'll say forcefully date Veronica. That's a kind way to put it. He kidnaps Veronica. Punisher inserts himself into the Riverdale life as a gym teacher who's new to school. Again, wackiness hijinks ensue. There's a lot of in jokes, they do a lot of references. It's really well done, honestly, and a lot of fun. In the end, Veronica helps take down this non-Archie villain, and Punisher saves the day. And you kind of have this wistful moment of Punisher kind of sees like what his life could have been if his family hadn't been murdered and he'd picked up guns and led this lifestyle as vigilante. And of course, Archie who's like, hey, I can be almost superhero and I want to be involved in this. And you know, he's kind of laughed off.
SPEAKER_02:Jigsaw in that too? No. Oh, maybe I'm thinking of a different one.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, the only distinctly Marvel characters that pop up are Punisher, Microchip, which is Punisher's tech dude. Kind of like a tech handyman guy. And then at the end, you get a don't remember how it happens, but Wolverine's claws pop up. Okay. As in, like, there's gonna be another crossover with Wolverine. That one never ends up coming to fruition, but it's just kind of a little teaser at the end.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, none of that kind of thing happens.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Another one that I read for this was Archie versus Predator, which is in a similar vein to that Archie meets Punisher storytelling. This one that happened in 2015. This is actually a four-issue miniseries that then spawned another five-issue miniseries four years later. This is very much like Archie's crew go on a trip to an island, and the predator happens to be there and kind of has a fixation on Betty, which I don't really get. But then there's this other side story of Betty and Veronica tussling, and Betty encounters an enchanted dagger from like ancient Aztecs. It's a mix of wackiness, but what if like during the wackiness people die and are murdered by the predator? Okay. A little uh yeah. It's all done again in that original in-house style, similar to how Archie Predator was done. I mean Archie Punisher. It's injecting these quarter predator tropes into things, you know, as predators cutting heads off, people are getting shot down, Veronica's like sprayed with blood and things. They ended up having a back and forth as the predator mows his way through the cast of characters. Not to spoil things, but at the very end, Archie's killed, but they find a way to revive him by sewing the predator head on top of Archie's corpse, and then it's like a pred Archie out there. Oh boy. That follows on in the second series. They abandon the old Archie house style for more modern interpretation, kind of like what you'd see in afterlife with Archie. From what I read of that, it's a pretty lackluster paint by numbers. Uh I mean, at least they're taking swings. Yeah, they're taking swings. I think what worked the best for me of all of these that I encountered was Archie Meets Riverdale. Oh, this is just a one-shot. Yeah, this is a one-shot where, if I remember right, he's trying to find a way to take both Betty and Veronica to the dance, you know, a standard Archie story.
SPEAKER_02:Streets Company episode. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now, Archie has over the years developed a huge cast of characters. And one of them, God, I can't remember his name off the top of my head. That's the word you were looking for. Oh, well, I am often looking for head, that's true. You can looking for head in all the wrong places, as the song goes. Booking Ponub, if I remember right. So some reason I knew you were gonna go buckwheat, and I don't know why. The character I was trying to think of was is Dilton Doily. Oh, good. Uh most most of the characters in Archie have alliterative names, but he's kind of like the nerd inventor trope within the Archie world. In Archie Meets Riverdale, he creates kind of a doorway to another universe, and it ends up being a doorway to the Riverdale universe, where like it's modern, it's done in a different style, you know, everybody's a bit more adult, that CW people sleeping with teachers kind of vibe. These Riverdale characters get transported into the Archie, and it's fun because Betty and Veronica are like, whoa, this guy's hot. You know, because it's Archie without a shirt on, you know, and you they can tell that he's similar but different. It ends up they only have so long to figure out how to send them back, and eventually technology isn't working and it's gonna fail. So Jughead has the great idea to contact someone he knows who has a different route, and that is Sabrina. Sabrina comes and uses magic to like cross the barriers of the multiverse, and then you see different multiverse version of all of the different Sabrina's, whether it's Tiny Sabrina or like Chilling Adventures, Sabrina from the 50s, Sabrina from the TV show, all of these different things. She transports people back to where they should be after everyone has a good time on the dance floor together. Oh, Scarlet Witch scenario wraps up as it should. Yeah. Um, again, it's quite fun. I was a little dubious getting into these because I've never been a big Archie fan. I didn't watch the Riverdale show because I didn't really have any interest, but it was a really well-done issue, kind of hit on all the tropes. You know, the characters were all really well defined and had a fun interplay with what the old style of Archie is and the new, new, like riskier versions of Archie can be. And I think that's one thing that Archie has done well over the years is stay relevant, keep their name out there, and push storytelling boundaries that might have held them back, you know, in the in the 80s and 90s, but do it in a more intelligent way, I think. I think you had a lot of stuff in the 80s and 90s they were trying to push, you know, with that Archie 3000 or Jughead Time Police. But when they do uh you know, an afterlife with Archie or a you know, Archie versus Short NATO or Archie meets the Ramones, things like this, they're trying to like not redesign the wheel, but you know, graft themselves onto whatever is like exciting and and interesting at the time. This this plays out even further when I I was going through like while I was doing this this you know, writing some of the stuff and looking at some of these comics, I was go, I was kind of rearranging my room down here, and I happened upon a stack of comics that I had uh procured and was meaning to send to a friend of mine, but I never they never actually got sent. And so I was like, oh, well let me look at some of these. So thankfully they kind of covered this was let me see what exact year and everything this is. So this is 2023 around the months of like February, May, and whatnot. So I have uh Archie's Valentine Spectacular, definitely in the old Archie style. It has the Archie comics 80 years of Archie, and these are little vignette stories of just your romance stuff. Betty and Veronica Friends Forever, Rock and Roll. This is an all-new lead story. Joined Betty and Veronica and Joe La Kitt in their brand new band. Again, these are all kind of stories involving Archie and music, essentially, with a Betty and Veronica Tinge with the Archie Comics 80 Years banner. But then there's another one, Archie and Friends, all new action, with Archie supermechateens. I'll get into this one a little more in detail in a second. Then you have the Archie Comics, the newer brand here, post-reboot stuff. And this is Archie versus the world. I want to get into that one a bit more. And then there were a couple Archie Horror ones. There's Pop's Chocolate Shop of Horrors. Nice. Kind of a Tales from the Crypt, all set in the restaurant of Riverdale where everybody kind of hangs out. And then there was Betty. The Chilling Adventures presents Betty the Final Girl. And this was little vignette stories of different Riverdale girls being the final girl in little mini horror stories.
SPEAKER_02:That's fascinating.
SPEAKER_01:They were both fine. Yeah. What is interesting, what is popular, what's a new way to like incorporate the stories we do in a new way? All of these do that. But I wanted to highlight a little bit of these. I wanted to touch on this Archie versus the world. I don't know if you can tell, but it is what does this look like, Skip?
SPEAKER_02:Uh I'm gonna say it looks a well, I've got some Street Fighter vibes, I've got some twisted metal dune a little bit, the uh David Lynch's Dune.
SPEAKER_01:Interesting. Uh well, I think I think what it's it's kind of like this would have been 2023 in March. If if you see like this opening, it's an old jughead discussing the end of the world and his adventures on the road with his his buddy in the post-apocalyptic wasteland. Okay, so it's kind of this um this mix of like Mad Max, but as it goes on, it becomes like Archie's Fist of the North Star.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay, I could see that. Yeah, yeah, because at first I thought like Dragon Ball Z, but I'm like, we never really didn't share anything with Dragon Ball Z, but then yeah, I could see Fist of the North Star.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. You have like um Cheryl Blossom is the queen of the Wasteland. Oh wow making Archie and Reggie, who are like competing different martial arts schools, as Archie has to unleash his final form uh to kill Reggie in a uh two men enter, one man leave battle. Wow. Yeah. Reggie had kidnapped Veronica in the Wasteland, and Archie's been trying to get her back. And Betty is like the super mechanic of the wasteland who keeps Archie Schloppy going, and Cheryl Blossom is the Tina Turner, the warrior wasteland queen. And at the end, like Archie has to like decide which of these is he gonna is he gonna go with you know power, wealth, or happiness. And of course, Archie decides to just continue being the hero that he must be in the wasteland and travel the world that has gone to shit with his buddy Jughead and his dog. But again, this is like this is like this adult weird story, but it always hits like these same tropes.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Maybe the writers are finally keying in on it that these are actual tropes, archetypes that endure because they are archetypes, whether they defined them or they represent others.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, just to hit that one more time, I just want to like focus on this Archie and friends. Now, this is done, as you can see, in the more traditional Archie style. Uh this is the original archie stuff. Now, this is uh Super Mecha teens, Archie. Of course. Essentially, this is a mix of Evangelion and Pacific Rim.
SPEAKER_02:Which makes it also kind of like Voltron and Power Rangers in some sort respects, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. In this one, each of the teens has their own specific mech, and Archie is the super drift compatible person. And so Archie must choose who he's going to pair with to take on the kaiju. And of course, like he can't choose between Betty Veronica and Cheryl's mech has already been destroyed, blossom red, and so of course he can't decide, but he has to figure it out. So he's like, oh, who's gonna choose? Obviously, you know, there's one person that hungers for heroics in this world, and that's who he should choose. He's got to get into the jug head bot and take on this kaiju with a hamburger.
SPEAKER_02:Oh dear lord, yes. Yes, yeah. It's Mayor McCheese gone wild.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So last little bit, it's called Archie in Crisis on Riverdale Earth. Oh my god, yes, just go for it. Yeah, uh, this is this is great. Uh Time Police Jughead shows up on Archie's doorstep, and he starts introducing these different archies. There's Archie One that he is, there's the Archie 3000, there's the Hollywood Archie, which is like the Riverdale Archie, there's little Archie, new little Archie, the new Archies, Archie babies. Oh, that's right. They have to figure out the best way to take out Mad Doctor Doom, little Archie's nemesis, because he's joined up with Evil Heart, Pureheart's nemesis. And obviously, like they can't figure out exactly what to do, so Pureheart tries to take him out, doesn't quite work, so then they get Pure Heart Archie 3000, who's Pureheart Archie with this sweet mullet.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man, Captain Planet style.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, very much so. And he has to go save the day, and of course, all the different Betty's and Veronicas from the different universes then collide with him to try and and thank him for saving the day. Wink. Yeah, then there's a into the Riverdale Triangle where they meet dinosaurs and a whole bunch of it's like Librea.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, whatever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:One of the things about Archie that's so endearing and enduring is they are tropes in and of themselves. That you can take the very essence of these detailed, wide-ranging characters, and you can put them in a variety of different scenarios, whether that is something silly, whether it's something thoughtful, something more childish, something more adult. They're all characters that we fundamentally recognize. They're all well explained and thoroughly extrapolated, and they just work in whatever scenario you generally put them in, which I think is one reason why they have been able to expand their presence in comics, you know, touching on different genres, interacting with different groups and popular icons, both of pop culture, of the real world, and in comics, and how they've been able to be exposed to different audiences in a completely different set of formats that really allow them to be out there and sustain for decades on end.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's really fascinating too, because I wonder if that, in years hence, that will be Archie's real legacy, because it took a long time to get to this point. And now I wonder if in future generations if the legacy looking back on it is that they are universal tropes able to be applied to different, like you said, different scenarios and different, you know, stories and and genres. I mean, ironically, they started out as this fantasy about a very specific period in time in America that never really existed. That's fascinating. And I wonder if that will eventually become its its in enduring legacy. Well, I mean, we've already seen it starting to happen, and and I mean hopefully it will in the future. To your point, there have been a lot of Archie comics, a lot of Archie imprints, a lot of Archie spin-offs, and uh obviously the comics are the backbone of you know the brand, but you would not believe how much is going on in multimedia with Archie. Some of which is hilariously bad, some of which is surprisingly good, some of which you wouldn't know that was Archie at all. But even before this rebrand, there was a long history of Archie and multimedia to mixed results. Let's go with live-action TV. You had several pilots for Archie TV shows that never went to series. Most notably Archie in 1964 on NBC, and then Archie again in 1978 on ABC. Then you had Sabrina the Teenage Witch, obviously, which we touched on from 96 to 2003. Interestingly enough, and this is this one I really appreciate. Akemi Kadi, the Turkish interpretation of Sabrina the Teenage Witch on Turkish Star TV from 2005 to 2007, in 58 episodes in two seasons. Wow. Alright. Of course, you had uh Riverdale from 2017 to 2023, and The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina on Netflix, which we're all familiar with, and then people forget about Katie Keane, which was also done by Berlante and Warner Brothers on the CW in 2020, one season for 13 episodes. Now that's just television. Live action film, on the other hand, you had, let's see, going back to 1969, Archie and his new pals. And then you had in 1978 the Archie Situation Comedy Musical Variety Show. Okay. Yeah, it is a 48-minute variety show, which just says that it's set in the mythical town of Riverdale and follows the misadventures of Archie and his gang. There was a pilot of Archie from 1976 that didn't get picked up, and this is a rehashing of that as a musical. A bold choice, and then there was a kind of a gap, and then you had Archie to Riverdale and Back Again in 1990. An Archie tale. Yeah. This one is a live-action made for TV movie by DIC or DEEK, if anybody remembers that. It premiered on NBC Sunday night at the movies on May 6th, 1990. It was shown, for some reason, in the UK as weekend reunion. I guess because they didn't have any context for Archie. I guess. That's interesting. Yeah. The idea was that it was a a follow-up to like what Archie would be like now if the original Archie comics were in real life. Like, like where would they be a little while after he graduated high school and all that? This one had basically the Archie crew in their 30s. Betty was a grade school teacher, Veronica was living in France and had been married and divorced four times. Jughead was a psychiatrist with a son that he has sole custody of. Moose and Midge were married chiropractors. Okay. Right. Reggie owns a gym. And also a used car lot. Those are two different scams. That's interesting. That fits. It kind of does. I believe this was supposed to be a pilot. I mean, it just ended up being a one-off made-for-TV movie. Archie was played by Christopher Rich Wilson. He did a lot of stuff, including, oh, something we should definitely talk about at some point. The sitcom The Charmings, starring Snow White and Prince Charming in a modern suburban sitcom, and we've talked about it before. He was, of course, Prince Charming. Eric Charming. And he also appeared in things like Murphy Brown, The Reba TV show, which he was a regular on, and Boston Legal. Reba. Yeah, well. He also did shows like Strap Yourselves in Boys, Renegade. Everybody did that shit. Not enough to be renegade, I'll tell you that. So that was that one, I believe it was supposed to be a backdoor pilot, but it ended up just being a major TV movie. It's weird that he played such odd archetypal characters, but then was never really all that successful. But whatever. And then in 96 you had Sabrina the Teenage Witch, obviously. Then a spin-off movie from the TV show, Sabrina Goes to Rome, and then again another one, Sabrina Down Under. Jesus. Which is like way late for America's obsession with Australia, by the way. Like 15 years too late for that. And then you had animated movies starting in 1969 with Archina's New Pals. One that related to that called The Archies in Jugman, which is part of Archie's Weird Mysteries. And Sabrina Friends Forever, which is part of the Sabrina, the animated series. It was like a made-for-TV movie for that. And then Stan Lee had a couple of ones that were published, like the adaptations of his were published by Archie Comics, one of which stars Arnold Schwarzenegger. So I didn't really include those, but it is weird that that happened. And then let's see, you also don't forget about um Josie and the Pussycats. Oh, how could I? Which is actually a pretty good movie in its own right.
SPEAKER_01:There's been like a a re not reinterpretation, but uh rediscovery. Yes. Especially with the younger generations, but I I didn't expect people love it.
SPEAKER_02:They do. There was also a made for TV live action one just called Archie in 1964. Didn't go anywhere. Some of the pilots of some of the animated series were considered movies, but they're not really. We shan't forget the Archies in 2023, a Bollywood production, set in 1960s India, where Archie and the gang navigate romance friendship and the future of Riverdale as developers threaten to destroy a beloved park. So it's essentially breaking, but Bollywood and about Archie. Love it. I'm down, let's do it. Why not? What a weird format to pick for that. But then of course you had but the animated ones are just it's a numerous. It's like The Archie Show, the Archie Comedy Hour, Archie's Funhouse, Josie and the Pussycats, Groovy Ghoulies, which featured Sabrina, Archie's TV Funny, Sabrina the Teenage Witch Show, Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space. The US of Archie, which came out around the time of the Bicentennial, The New Archie and Sabrina Hour, that's done by Filmation. The new Archie's in 1987, which only ran 13 episodes, but was on NBC. Sabrina the Animated Series, which was produced by DIC or DEEK, and showed first on UPN and then subsequently on ABC. Sabrina's Secret Life from 2003 to 2004, which was just syndicated. Sabrina's Secrets of a Teenage Witch, 26 episodes from 2013 to 2014, on the Hub Network. Wow, like most of these don't even exist anymore. And then, like I said, Superhero Kindergarten, which is the Stanley written and produced starring Arnold Schwarzenegger, that is only Archie related because the comic book adaptation was published by Archie. This was on the Cartoon Channel, and that's Cartoon with a K in 2021. I have no idea what that is. Don't I've never heard of that. I don't know what that is, and it obviously didn't last very long. But they also had a different one called Stan Lee's Mighty Seven, which was another of the same thing. I I'm very confused by all of that. But uh the most successful of which of all of these was if you don't count Riverdale, was Jose of the Pussycats, which grossed domestically$14,271,005. Foreign, that's about$600,000. So about$15 million worldwide. This is the one that surprised me. Worldwide did$15 million. The budget was$57 million. I'm shocked by all of those numbers and for different reasons. It's really bizarre. You know, at the time Archie did kind of have that stigma around it for being kind of cheesy and out of date or whatever, but I remember watching that movie and being like, oh, this isn't bad. I I thought it was gonna be lame, or no, it has some good themes. It talks about celebrity and Hollywood culture and or just like fame in general, but it was a huge bomb, which is probably why you never saw any sequels. Even though it is, I think, pretty well regarded today. Unfortunately, I think what it's the Rotten Tomato score is like 53%, which is not great. Metacritic score is 47%. Not great, but there are worse things. Cinema score is B. That's pretty good. So it has endured. Weirdly, its successes weren't even all that successful, but it's still there. It still exists. People remember a lot of this stuff fondly. Now, Josie and the Pussycats, the movie, is nostalgic for millennials. And just being discovered now by Gen Z. That was a grab at nostalgia that happened in the late 90s and early 2000s for the boomers. So, like the fact that now that is nostalgic is mind-blowing. But it's you know the enduring appeal somehow of Archie and his pals.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. This speaks to Archie's enduring legacy because Archie is like this wonderful snapshot of Americana viewed from the perspective of the teenage experience, and that's something that was revolutionary when it came out, but over like, you know, it's 85 years, a lot's changed. And Archie has been able to stay abreast of those changes, market itself with dips, obviously, from time to time. I mean, no one's gonna be smooth sailing for you know almost a hundred years, but they've been able to, you know, appeal to a broad audience by creating something that is kind of geared towards a younger, childlike audiences, but with enough subtle humor and savvy for the popular culture that also engages adult readers and viewers, able to target everyone. And by doing this, they have been able to speak on a number of issues throughout the time, whether that's that's bullying, gender equality, LGBTQ, culture acceptance, politics, war, gun violence, violence, you know, obviously that the Christianity stuff of the 70s, which we had a long discussion about. But they've also like it's interesting that it showed both sides. Yeah. Uh, and they they've been able to show the sides that a lot of other books, especially of the time, you know, and a lot of books that are much more popular, just haven't been able to do. I mean, they incorporate African-American characters, Asian characters, Latino characters, Indian characters. There is something in someone for everyone. And while doing all of this, they've been able to stay abreast of what is interesting and new, but not be beholden to it. They haven't tried to compete with Marvel and DC. They haven't tried to be the new image or dark horse or anything. They're happy doing what they do and being who they are, regardless of the trends that have been established by others in the same market. No idea is too big, no idea too wild. They tell whatever stories they want to, and they work a lot of times because they have these characters and these storytelling tropes that have become icons in and of themselves, and they can utilize that to do with and play with in whatever way they see fit.
SPEAKER_02:Would they have been able to do so without that backbone of constant readership that was due to Sonic? I don't know. Either way, at least they were able to do so. They always find a way to keep themselves going, whether it's through digest form, whether it's through digital presence when that wasn't even a thing, whether it was through IP licensing that sort of keeps them afloat during thin times, or reinventing themselves. They've always figured out a way to make it work and somehow still relevant.
SPEAKER_01:As Victor Gorlich puts it in an interview, why I think Archie is so enduring and endearing is simple. Archie is about the importance of home, family, and friendship. The town of Riverdale, where Archie and his friends live, is a nice, safe place to go whenever you need some cheering up. The characters are warm and friendly and care about each other. They live in a world that used to be, might be, or is the way we would like it to be.
SPEAKER_02:But never was. It's important to remember that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Unfortunately, America wasn't like that then. It's not going to be like that. But Archie is an ideal, which I think kind of sets it apart and lets it rise above and sustain over these 85 plus years.
SPEAKER_02:That's true. And it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. In fact, it's found its most success, I think, in the last few years. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Archie's never been my thing. Honestly, I've read the most Archie I've ever read over the past three weeks. Surprisingly, I've enjoyed most of what I read. Yeah. Weird, isn't it? I'm I'm excited to see what Archie does in the in the in the future. And I'm I'm happy that it's been a sustained. Uh, I would be remiss if I didn't mention, before we finally wrap this up, my favorite Archie adjacent story. And that would be an Ed Brewbaker and Sean Phillips criminal series last of the innocent. If you guys don't know, Criminal is a noir pulp crime series, pound for pound, one of the greatest comics ever, regardless of genre. But if you're into crime books and neon noir stuff, it is like the pinnacle. And The Last of the Innocent, he does his dark take on the Archie characters. They're all kind of represented in the story in adult versions where their lives have have gone astray and crime becomes central to what's happened. I don't want to spoil any of it. I'd love for you all to go on read it because it's that good of a story. But it was always been like my favorite fun interpretation of those archie characters, especially as someone who's not married to Archie as an institution necessarily. It's just a great story and it's a fun, dark take on Archie. I'm gonna have to read that actually. Oh, yeah. If you've never read it, it's great. A real, a real very far away from what Goldwater probably intended. But it's not an official Archie story either. Taking these tropes, these iconic versions of these characters, doing his own version. It's great stuff.
SPEAKER_02:It's like Tarantino's Archie.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I'm interested. Well worth it. And we hope you've all been interested in this journey through Archie. It's it's something when Skip pitched it. I was very much I don't know about that. Hesitant. A little behind the word of the bathrobe here when we do this podcast. Sometimes either one of us will pitch an idea for an episode, and the other one's a little hesitant, a little unsure whether they're not as into the idea, not as into the subject matter, maybe as unsure whether we can reasonably tell the story that needs to be told to its best ability and deliver it in a way that's both engaging, entertaining, and fruitful enough. That's how I felt when we got into Archie, something I wasn't really sure about. But through us researching this, through me reading some, through our discussions, I found Archie and Archie's life to be quite fascinating. And I'm glad that he suggested it. And I hope it has been fulfilling for you guys and you've enjoyed it as much as we'd enjoy sharing it with you. Uh most of the pods we do have something to say. That's true. Because we have something to say. Sometimes, sometimes they're better than others. We've had, I think, some real winners over the years, especially in ones I didn't think that would come off at all. Well, thanks for at least tuning in. We're happy that you hung out with us, hung out with Archie. If you did enjoy it, if you wouldn't mind liking, sharing, subscribing. If you know an Archie fan out there who you can give this to, and they can get angry that we didn't cover XYZ or breeze through too much or stayed on Sonic too long, or whatever it might be, if they want to reach out to us, hey, all engagement's good engagement, so we don't mind that. If you wouldn't mind rating us three Jughead Time Police stars on the favorite podcast app of your choice, ideally Apple Podcasts, it's the best way for us to get heard and thus seen, and we can spread out and have more time and ability to cover more interesting subject matter like this. But again, we just want to say, hey, thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed it as much as we have. But until you have to put your life on the line and decide Betty or Veronica, or maybe even Cheryl, Skip. Or Kevin. Or Kevin. Um, or Chughead.
SPEAKER_02:You know, are you a burger sexual like he is? So do you have to sacrifice your life for Kevin's existence? These are important questions. I think it's important also to remember it's five stars, not three. That's shooting a little low, I think, for our for the algorithms, but you know. Did I say three?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you did say three. I did? That's weird. Hmm. We're shooting low today. Here, uh, if I say that, could you just like go and post and say five? Like one of those um whenever they have you know an R-rated film, they have to PG it up. Mother Father. This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.
SPEAKER_02:You feed a stranger scrambled eggs. Well, I mean, other than uh the additional two stars, but make sure that you have cleaned up yourselves to some sort of reasonable degree. Make sure you've paid your tabs, paid your weight staff, your bartenders to cages, your podcasters, and supported your local comic shops and retailers from Dispatch Ajax. We would both like to say Godspeed, fair wizards. Man, Archie doesn't have a like a saying. Oh, Archie. I know that's from L and the family, but that's all I can think of. It's a completely different Archie.
SPEAKER_00:Please go away.