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Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Nerds explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
RIP Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa
We open with the shock of Carrie-Hiroyuki Tagawa’s passing and step through the moments that defined him: a scene-stealing Shang Tsung in Mortal Kombat, a gallery of elegant villains across 80s and 90s action, and a deep, steady practice in martial arts that prized control over violence. That contrast powers the story—how a performer built on breath, precision, and presence could turn wafer-thin dialogue into lines you still quote, then reappear years later with the same gravity reshaped into empathy.
We dig into Tagawa’s training in kendo and Shotokan under Masatoshi Nakayama and how that discipline informed his screen work. The conversation pulls no punches about typecasting and yellow peril tropes that lingered in Hollywood, from Big Trouble in Little China to network TV, and how Tagawa often transcended the parts he was offered. Along the way we revisit touchstones like The Perfect Weapon, Showdown in Little Tokyo, License to Kill, Rising Sun, Planet of the Apes, Tekken, and a surprisingly rich run in animation with Star Wars Rebels and Visions. Then we pivot to his quieter triumph: a measured, humane turn in The Man in the High Castle that proved his range extended well beyond menace.
The final act explores a surprising chapter—Tagawa’s late-life connection to Russia, conversion to Orthodox Christianity, and an articulated desire to serve and heal. In his own words, a true warrior carries compassion. Through that lens, the career of a “villain” reads as a masterclass in restraint, intention, and dignity, delivered over more than 150 screen credits. If you love film history, character acting, martial arts philosophy, or the craft of turning stereotype into substance, this one is for you.
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There you go. As outcast would say.
SPEAKER_01:Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.
SPEAKER_04:I'm being the proper approach for today.
SPEAKER_02:Negative.
SPEAKER_00:All right. Carrie Hiroyuki Tagawa died in the early morning hours of December 4th, 2025, at his home in Santa Barbara, California, the age of 75, because of a stroke. He died surrounded by his son Kaelin and his two daughters, Bryn and Kana, and he will be missed. If you don't know who Kerry Hiroyuki Tagawa was, he's probably known in the mainstream most as Shang Sung from the Mortal Kombat movie adaptation from 1995, directed by Paul W. S. Anderson, one of the highlights of that movie. It's one of the reasons that movie worked. It's one of the only reasons that movie worked. It's not a very good movie, but he's fucking great in it. Also, the the actor that played Liu Kang, who also played Bruce Lee in Dragon the Bruce Lee story. Robin Shu. That role would kind of define his career in the mainstream because he played that, which was pretty iconic. Went on to play him again in the god-awful Mortal Kombat Annihilation sequel. Special kind of bad. It's bad in ways that I can't even articulate. So bad it might come all the way around. Maybe it'd be kind of good. But then did reprise the role in the 2013 television series Mortal Kombat Legacy, which nobody remembers happened. Good. Which is actually pretty good. A good reimagining of the whole thing. Well, didn't it start out as a web series?
SPEAKER_01:It was a web series. I don't think it actually made it to TV. I think it was mostly Web Series, and then they collected it. All oh yeah. Is that the one where Jerry Ryan?
SPEAKER_00:Sonia played. And Michael Jai White. Okay, well, there was a Mortal Kombat TV show.
SPEAKER_01:There was. I think that did well enough that then it prompted, oh, we should do something. And then they did a TV show.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I know for a fact there was a different Mortal Kombat TV show, but I don't think he was involved, so we'll move on for that. Lots of Mortal Kombat, folks. Lots of combatants. Believe it or not. And then reprised his role once again in Mortal Kombat 11 in 2019, which I own on the Switch. I enjoyed that game and I beat it on easy. Your Switch is mine. Takawa leaves us all a legacy of more than 150 film and TV appearances. I'm not even including the video games. He's got one of the most prolific filmographies of any actor we've ever talked about. Takawa was born in Tokyo, Japan, the son of an actress, Mariko Hata, and a Japanese American who was an army. He was in army. He's army. He is army, who was during his career was stationed at Fort Bragg, Fort Polk, Fort Hood. He grew up uh multilingual. I'm sorry, his mother grew up multilingual. She spoke English, Japanese, Russian, Korean, and Spanish. Damn. Damn. Absolutely. Their whole family spoke multiple languages. He was an army brat, of course, and so he grew up in all sorts of places. He had an interest in martial arts because if you're an Asian kid that grows up in America, and especially in that era, I guess that's what you do. His training began with kendo, which is what they use for lightsaber choreography in the original Star Wars, in junior high. By the age of 21, Tagawa started training traditional Japanese karate at the University of Southern California. He attended Duarte High School, which has no relation to the Filipino dictator, thankfully, and then moved on to USC. Later, he moved to Japan to study with the JKA, which I'm pretty sure is the Japanese Karate Association. Yeah, the Japanese Karate Association. Yes. Under Master Nakamaya. Master Masatoshi Nakayama. Who was famous for bringing the art of karate to basically the masses, to the Western world. He was Japanese master of Shotokan Karate, and he is he helped establish the Japanese Karate Association in 1949. I don't know that karate would have been famous in America without him. Takawa was an apprentice of his and was prominent in the Japanese Karate Association. He hated being a fighter. He, by nature, hated violence and tried to create his own martial arts style that was less violent and more defensive. What we would consider the yogic styles of martial arts today. Breathing, energy, the philosophical stuff. The Qigong.
SPEAKER_01:Yep, absolutely. At least from his words. Because he moved around a lot when he was very young, he had to live in the deep south, and he realized pretty quickly that being Asian in the deep south meant learning the necessity for martial arts. And so he had to use it, but he didn't like to resort to violence, and he would rather try to find ways to redirect their anger, thus avoiding conflict. In his own words, there are no winners in a fight. It's always better to resolve a situation peacefully.
SPEAKER_00:He then attended eventually the University of Hawaii as a part of the football team, not as a player, but as he describes as a masur who would help rehabilitate the players. Which I think is really interesting. Yeah. He considered himself a practitioner of both martial arts and Asian Qi healing techniques. In the 1980s, Tagawa founded a hybrid of martial arts and healing called Chu Shin, a form referred to as the martial alchemy. I'm glad he did that then and not now, because he would be so fucking QAnon now. Oh boy.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Takawa said that uh it it loosely translates to to be centered inside your heart and mind.
SPEAKER_00:I think a lot of his approaches were completely genuine and heartfelt and well-meaning. But then things get a little weird later. We'll get into that later. He then decided to become an actor. And his breakthrough role came when he was cast as Yunuk Chang in The Last Emperor 1987. I'm pretty sure that one best picture that year. He was an undercover agent in the Hong Kong narcotics board in the Bond film License to Kill in 1991. He starred alongside Dolph Lundgren and Brandon Lee in Showdown in Little Tokyo, where he played a Yakuza boss named Yoshida.
SPEAKER_01:Thankfully for him and his career, the 80s into the 90s was a prime time for Asian villain actors.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, big time. I do remember watching a MacGyver episode that was supposed to be about like some weird like Chinese, I think it was either drug trade or human trafficking trait. I can't remember which, um, or maybe it was like maybe it was uh like artifacts out of ancient China or whatever, but it had every Asian actor in the world in it. It was like it was like him, it was James Hong, it was well George Takei, it was several other people from sh from Big Troubles in Little China, all of which were like different ethnic groups that were all playing Chinese people. Nice, and they would do like faux Chinese language when they would talk to each other. It wasn't actually Chinese, it was just like gibberish they'd make up or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:God, I know you could figure by the time MacGyver, I mean this isn't the 1920s.
SPEAKER_00:Come on now. I know by the time you get there, you'd think like, come on, guys, really George Decay playing a Chinese person? Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my. Yeah, it's like they just have all the Asian actors are in the pen and they're like, uh, uh, give me one of them to Asian actors, put them in here. But it says we need a Filipino for this role. Uh they're all the same, just throw them in there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, throw them in there. Yeah, there's a Mr. Showskid about that, actually, where they do the court appointed experts, and they're all just like sitting in a they're all sitting in a room. Yeah, yeah. His first credit as an actor is Big Trouble in Little China. As a Wing Kong swordsman. Uh-huh. Just the background. Yeah, but look who else is in the background. I mean, what a what a fucking awesome cast to be a part of.
SPEAKER_01:What a an awesome movie to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's so cool. He's been in a lot. He was, I think, typecast a lot. Uh, mostly because of his sort of he is sort of a gruff looking mug. He's got a scowl constantly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, even though, like, from all accounts, one of the nicest guys you'd meet, absolutely. He sounded like a real sweetheart. Yeah. He always got cast as villains. And that's also part of like the time. I mean, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The not so obvious yellow peril shit that they put him in. Unfortunately, his appearance in Star Trek The Next Generation in Encounter and Far Point is 1 million percent a yellow peril uh stereotype. One of the later ones I can think of, actually, in that sense, because that was in 1987, where he really started hitting the stride. I mean, if you want a yellow peril, his his role in the phantom. Oh shit, yeah. Oh, the Billy Zane, yes. Oh god. Okay, look, we have discussed this a little bit in our like our Flash Gordon slash Buck Rogers episode. The yellow peril was a huge thing in the twenties and thirties, and the phantom was around that era as well. If you're gonna adapt that into a modern movie, don't bring that baggage with you, right? Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because the shadow did the same thing.
SPEAKER_01:It's one of the only good things Iron Man 3 did, where it's like, alright, we have the Mandarin, which is a distinctly racially charged character. Let's turn it's ear.
SPEAKER_00:Let's make him completely racially ambiguous by an actor who a white actor who played Gandhi. Yeah. I think that was intentional.
SPEAKER_01:I do think it was intentional. I mean, you have to kind of you have to know going into it to get that deeper layer of the bit.
SPEAKER_00:I think a lot of people seeing Iron Man 3 might not have, but and also I do appreciate that they kind of rebooted that with Shang-Chi, which I think is pretty great. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He also did famously Rising Sun with Sean Connery and and Wesley Snipes. You can say what you will about that. The Phantom, of course, Pearl Harbor, the terrible, the terrible Tim Burton, Planet of the Apes, Memoirs of a Geisha, and then hilariously the Tekken movies. Yeah. Mishima. Okay, yeah, I get it. You were in Mortal Kombat, so now you're in Tekken. Fine. Okay, whatever. I'm surprised you weren't in Street Fighter of the movie as well. Obviously 47 Ronan.
SPEAKER_01:Oddly.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you you get a Hawaiian sumo guy?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, I'm struggling to think of I guess Chun Lee. Yeah, Chun Lee, the archetype for exploitation of Asian women. And then well, later you get Faye Long, who's just straight up Bruce Lee. But not in the movie. Oh, he's not in the movie, no. The the racial problems in that movie are too many to count, to be perfectly honest. Uh innumerable? They are innumerable.
SPEAKER_01:You already pointed out that he was in The Phantom as uh you know a comic book uh come to screen. Well, I did, yeah, but you you you said it as well. He was also can't forget in Electra as Master Roshi, uh, which is also the name of Goku's sensei in Dragon Ball.
SPEAKER_00:I own that movie on DVD somewhere, I don't even remember that. Oh man. Well, does any who remembers anything about Electra? I remember that Terrence stamp is stick. That's what I remember. And I remember the deleted scenes, and that's about it.
SPEAKER_01:I I mean I remember Terrence stamp, but I didn't I don't remember a single event or set piece or line of dialogue.
SPEAKER_00:I remember her getting attacked by the hand in one action sequence, and that's all I can remember. In fact, I remember the I remember the deleted scenes with Ben Affleck more than I remember the actual movie. Because it was so weird and stood out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's bizarre. Well, it's it's not a highlight of his career. I just wanted to point out, I mean, the nature of our podcast, I I thought it it behooved us to uh at least Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:That's why we need to talk about it. Because these are the things that these are the roles that we like. These are the roles that we want to talk about. Well, maybe not Electra, but well, maybe yeah, I don't, yeah, fuck. I don't know. But you know what? The man worked. Always working. He always had a job. There are very few people in Hollywood who always work like he did. It's James Hong, they were both in big trouble, but James Hong was the lead was the lead villain. They appeared often together. They had similar career paths. But other than that, very few are as prolific as Tagawa was. He did appear in Amazon Prime's adaptation of Philip K. Dix, The Man in the High Castle, um, which I thought he was good in, even though the show was so flawed that it's not worth talking about. The first season I was kind of like enamored with, and then seasons two and three, I'm like, what are you doing? Stop it, please just stop hurting us all.
SPEAKER_01:I would say that's one thing about Carrie's work in general, is that almost everything he was in, like you can point out like, oh, he was good in this. You know, it's tough to point out something that he didn't wasn't in. Those are just movies.
SPEAKER_00:Look at his TV appearances. It's crazy. Truly, truly runs the gamut. Oh, it's it's all over the place. Uh McGyver, the Colby's, Star Trek, Miami Vice, Hotel, would everybody was in Hotel. He was in an episode of Superboy. True.
SPEAKER_01:Baywatch, Alien Nation, Babylon 5, Renegade.
SPEAKER_00:Mission Imposter.
SPEAKER_01:Texas Ranger, Stargate, Sabrina, the Teenage Witch. Net Force. What the fuck is that? It's a rabbit hole going down like, oh, what is this that he was in?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I clicked on a few of those.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, Teenage Mute Ninja Turtles, Star Wars Rebels, Lost in Space, DuckTales the Reboot, Star Wars Visions. What a prolific career. What an amazing prolific career. And one of those guys that you always knew him when you saw him, but he never felt like he was wrong for the role or or you were just typecasting. He was just a guy that he worked in everything he did. It just worked. He's one of those guys that I think a lot of obviously I can't speak for Asian actors at all, but one of those guys that were like, if you were a bit actor or a character actor, like you'd have to look up to him for that kind of inspiration. Always working, always hustling, always good in everything he did.
SPEAKER_01:Did you have a particular role that comes to mind when you think of him, like personally?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Uh well, I mean, that horrible Star Trek Star Trek role was always sticks out to me. But yeah, it obviously we all think about him in Mortal Kombat, which I do think kind of defines his career for better or for worse.
SPEAKER_01:Um especially with like the the fandom around that, the years, decades spanning involvement, his involvement in the video games and all the voice acting. You know, he kind of like they had a character, they cast him, and then he became that character after that forevermore. Absolutely. That is that's iconic.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, because I remember when they rebooted Mortal Kombat in movie form, I remember just being like, why can't he play it now? But then he did in the game, which was great. It really felt natural. If you're gonna prov give me uh Charles Xavier, well now it has to be Patrick Stewart, or if you give me Wolverine, well now it has to be Hugh Jackman, it always has to be uh Takama in uh I'm sorry, Takawa in all of these he made them iconic, but he wasn't pigeonholed by them, which is I think kind of rare. Christopher Reeve had a hard time being anything other than Superman. Takawa can be Shang Song and then all of these other characters, and you're totally good with it. In fact, you you look forward to seeing him in stuff. The only other one was sadly Man in the High Castle. I thought he was so good in that. Because he was playing against type, he wasn't playing a villain, and he wasn't playing a menacing character. He was a pacifist type guy. He was just a he was a he was an administrator in the Japanese government in the Pacific states of America because the Japanese had and uh Germany had split up the United States after they won World War II. Not at all what you would expect, very introspective and very like muted. He worked in that just as well as he worked in any other role. He was a very diverse actor, and I those are the ones that come to mind. What about you? Do you have anyone that sticks out to you?
SPEAKER_01:I'll have to go, I guess. Unfortunately, you've kind of painted me into this box where I the ones that always stuck out in my mind uh were his uh traditional Asian bad guy. I think the year of nineteen. 1991 really was my sweet spot. And that year he was in The Perfect Weapon and Showdown Little Tokyo. Oh hell yeah. I love The Perfect Weapon. It's kind of an underseen, underrated Jeff Speakman martial arts film. Really cool because like it highlights Kenpo, which you don't get in a lot of martial arts films. Um but Tagawa, he comes in kind of a smooth-talking, good-looking side character. He gets a lick in but gets beat up in the end. But always stuck in my head. And that same year, he plays one of maybe the scuzziest and most vicious of all 80s, 90s bad guys, as Funeki Yoshida. It's kind of like this um Yakuza uh kind of like drug criminal kingpin. The stuff he does in that film, especially with some of the women, it's brutal, extremely misogynistic, and kind of disturbing. But it always stuck out because he like he had this evil suave. In this role, it's like it's in spades, and he does stuff just off the cuff that is horrific, but makes for a good bad guy to pair off against Brandon Lee and Dolph Lundgren. Um it's kind of always stuck in my mind, you know. It's like absolutely when I thought of him, I've seen that movie a billion times and always stuck in my head.
SPEAKER_00:So when he's that, and he in certain other roles that he had done before, like even in Kickboxer 2, to a certain extent, he does have this like persona that he he can put on. That's this oily slick, just like embodiment of evil type, right? Where he's just like, especially with his voice and the way that he presents himself. Malevolent but commanding sort of presence. And he does that better than almost anyone who's ever played a villain in Hollywood. It's so good that you totally understand why they made him Shang Song and why, like, that's so iconic because he has all these lines that he delivers that are kind of garbage dialogue and just snippets of stuff taken from the video game that he delivers that you totally buy. But then in stuff like The Man in the High Castle, where he's this empathetic family man who loves his children with almost the same persona, it's so subtle that you buy both. And I think that's one of the unsung things that unchenksung things that we that we don't talk about when when we talk about character actors, is that they're character actors because they can play so many different things, they're they're so good at the subtleties. Because like a lead actor is a lead actor for different reasons, and a character actor puts in the work. Takawa was on that level. I mean, in tw in the movie Twins, he was credited as Oriental Man. I mean, yeah, come on, guys.
SPEAKER_01:Really? There's an Edward James Almost film where he was El Japo.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right, exactly. When it comes to Takawa, he was a phenomenal character actor who never really got his I think recognition, but always worked. His later stuff was weird when he converted religiously and then moved to Russia. That that got weird. Do tell. There's not a lot of information about it. I mean, he just kind of like he for some reason converted to essentially Russian Orthodox, they call it Eastern Orthodox religion. It's because he he had like starred in a Russian TV show called was it called Marry Me?
SPEAKER_01:Where uh I'm very confused as to why all of that happened, but I was looking into the journey to orthodoxy to find out more. My malware stopped me from going there. Okay, that's about right. He went into the Russian Orthodox Church, took the name of the great martyr and healer, Saint Pentelamon. Penteliamon? Never knew how to say that. He learned Russian, acquired Russian citizenship, and divided his later years between California and Moscow, where he worked with children and served as a quiet cultural bridge between the East and West. His baptismal name was no coincidence. And he saw the fulfillment of his life's calling to heal rather than to harm. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so wait, what? Okay, so I'm looking at a blog that I translated from Russian. It has a credited writer, though it supposedly is him. I'm a little dubious, but I okay, this is what I found so far. There's a connection with Russia in my family's history. My father learned Russian while he was in the United States of America. My uncle, who was a famous singer in the 1960s, gave concerts in Moscow every year. He also spoke and sang songs in Russian, and therefore he's a part of my history, which is connected with Russia. I was impressed with the depth of Russian people's hearts. This is the first thing that caught my eye. Your soul, heart, and mind are drastically different from the American way of thinking, and are absolutely different from the European way of thinking. You come from some very deep energy, which is completely palpable. I grew up in America, and the Japanese part of my soul helped me survive, though I was far from my motherland. When I came to Russia, I thought that my Japanese origin was very close to the heart and the soul of the Russian people, which is weird because they used to fight wars all the time. Most importantly, I noticed that the personalities and souls of these two peoples were indeed similar. You and us are not soldiers but warriors. A little later today I will convert to the Orthodox faith and begin my religious path. On this path, my conversion to Christianity will become complete. Okay. The next paragraph is titled I Saw Hell. My father did military service for the United States of America in Hawaii. My mother had a very conservative Japanese outlook and lifestyle. Her energy and personality were very samurai-like. She held Imperial Japanese and military views. Therefore, there are two countries in my family: the Army of the United States of America and the Japanese Navy. The gap was huge. My goal was to unite what was best from both on was best from both sides of that gap. Yeah, this has to be him. I grew up in Louisiana, North Carolina, and Texas, which are the worst parts of America. Can't argue with that. I can say that I grew up in hell with full responsibility and seriousness. Therefore, I speak about a path and hell. It is not theoretical for me, but it is it was my life in America. It was my experience. I was saved by a read, which might which was my mother's personality. She always encouraged me to be proud of being Japanese, to never give up, and to always be a winner. It was too much for a six-year-old. Oh Jesus. Yeah, this has this has to be him. So basically, he became disenchanted with all of his upbringing, with all of his uh backgrounds, his his countries of of residency, which I could I could understand.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I guess, but that that partner left and why Russian Orthodox I don't know. They still have some questions there. I don't really see how it fits as well into uh an energy an Eastern energy chi foundation of of his other parts of his life.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, I yeah, that is confusing. Let's see, it says I compensated for the lack of positive and honest emotions by connecting with my success and nurturing them inside. Everything that I was unable to connect with in both deep cultural and American culture, deep culture and American culture, I now connect with you. Yeah, he's talking about Russia. I feel the love and respect of the Russian people for the Japanese, our principles, honor, and dignity. When I see Russian martial arts fighters, I ultimately understand them and they understand me. It's because I have this connection with Mother Russia, not just Russia, but Mother Russia, I'm quoting him. I would like to be a part of you. I would like to share my love and respect as an actor, and I can be a teacher. Overall, I'm already a grown-up. Therefore, having finished my search in Christianity, starting with my experience in Christianity in America, when I began my path in the Orthodox faith, I would like to declare that I'm going to take up Russian citizenship. Well, I'll say this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. But as opposed to some other actor, martial arts actors who have gone down a similar path, he at least seemed to like derive it from a place deep inside him and his family and his own path, and maybe doing something just to help people rather than exploit it politically.
SPEAKER_00:I think he was disillusioned with a lot of stuff, and he found some sort of I guess purpose and meaning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And it's not, I mean, I have some questions, but uh, you know, um and and you can say what you want about where he chooses to to explore that. Maybe Russia has a a strong tie with Japan now or with the East in general, even though they have a long history of being rivals. But from the outside, like we are looking at this, I think a lot of people from the outside would also have the same questions about people who like devote themselves to being American, considering the stuff that we do, you know, considering our place in in the g in geopolitics, or Israel, or any anybody else that has some sort of or the UK or anybody that has some sort of problematic issues with their international relations and and actions in the world. So I mean I I guess he found something that meant something to him. So I guess good for you, you know.
SPEAKER_01:As opposed to other people that we know are involved in a similar situation on the surface. I didn't find out about this till after his death, like looking into him. You know, it's not something he seemed to promote or was trying to exploit. It's something that came from his heart, it seems.
SPEAKER_00:Last stage of his life. That was I guess we should uh end it with this last quote from his blog post here about his conversion. He says, the meaning of the word samurai is to serve. In order to serve the good and love, one should have love and soul inside. A true warrior should have love and compassion in his soul in order to practice martial arts. I, in particular, train fighters and could do this. Interesting. It's not for us to judge.
SPEAKER_01:No, and I'm glad we could be a part of the chunks we were. Because again, he seems like a good guy. He was a fun, enjoyable, and always appreciated, even underappreciated character actor who would pop up in a lot of things that we love and enjoy. And he will be missed.
SPEAKER_00:We will be missed. And you know what? Uh, for most of his life, he liked the defensive side of martial arts, the the sort of like ultimate Shaolin guy, which is ironic considering he was Cheng Sung, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know. Well, I mean, James Earl Jones isn't Darth Vader, you know, so it's that's very true. So rest in peace. Treasure, peace goes as if they were your masked. And so you said something I didn't. I mean, I didn't I knew that he died, but I I didn't know anything about the Russian orthodox or anything. I think it's maybe not English. I mean, there's a there's a little bit like something happened and like it. I didn't I didn't think it was necessary to bring that up as a possibility, you know, for I mean I guess you know, Steven calls a pizza kit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:I I do not know. Um it's it's almost two o'clock. We should get going.
SPEAKER_01:Uh talk about uh Mandela Christmas. That's what we're doing next week. I can find some other Mandela. I mean I mean you're gonna bring Take me on your path.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so that's good. Talking about