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Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Nerds explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Cult Classics, Part 1
We trace how films become cult classics, from midnight screenings and VHS trades to streaming silos and algorithm feeds. We pull apart cult vs underground vs underseen, weigh the death of monoculture, and map how community keeps the weird and beloved alive.
Along the way, we separate “cult” from its lookalikes: underground (how a movie is made), underseen (how many people found it), and the elusive chemistry that turns a movie into a banner for a community.
We trade examples across eras—Rocky Horror, The Big Lebowski, The Room, Freaks, Plan 9, Who Killed Captain Alex, even early Nolan and Aronofsky—to show how transgression, quirk, and voice pull in fans who crave something off the map. Then we zoom out to the bigger shift: the decline of monoculture and the rise of siloed viewing. When everyone used to watch the same thing at the same time, “cult” had a clear counterpoint. Now access is near-total, but discovery is fragmented. Is mystique gone when everything is one click away, or has the ritual simply moved from midnight screenings to Discord watch parties and cosplay threads?
Oh, Jake's talking about the hamburglar again. Get the stick. Better boil some water.
SPEAKER_00:Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds. Are they in the proper approach pattern for today? Negative. Oh the weapon.
unknown:Charge the lightning field.
SPEAKER_01:Blame it on the griddler.
SPEAKER_02:I blame it on the Bossa Nova, personally.
SPEAKER_01:That's because you're a you're playing the blame game.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you could have said you blamed it on the rain, but we'll overlook it.
SPEAKER_01:We've done that bit too many times. We gotta switch it up.
SPEAKER_02:You're right.
SPEAKER_01:Well traveled Walters. Ooh, I'm I'm doing I'm struggling. Well traveled Barbara Walters. That's what I meant.
SPEAKER_02:Is that a vocal warm-up?
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_01:Well traveled Barbara Walters. That's hard. Try it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I'm not going to because it is hard.
SPEAKER_01:Well traveled Barbara Walters. That is difficult. Still can't quite get it. Anywho.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you know what else is a tough one? Defining a cult classic.
SPEAKER_01:Ooh, that truly is. Hey, hey everybody. Welcome back to Dispatch Ajax. I'm Jake. I'm Skib. That's Skip. Yep. Growing up as a geek, a nerd, a burgeoning cinephile, especially a child of the 80s and 90s, cult classic films were an essential building block of our cinematic language and understanding. We all love cult classics. That can mean something different to everyone. And we will try to uh grasp it a little better on our journey today to the history, the brief and very minimal history of cult classics, their status today, and their outlook for the future. Before we drop some knowledge on you of maybe some cult classics that have come out in the past 10 years that you need to get plugged in on because they will be cultural touchstones for the generation after this one. We could go on and on about the history of cult classic films. I mean, from Freaks in 1932 to Reef or Madness to Plan 9 from Outer Space to Rocky Horror Picture Show to Wickerman to Fritz the Cat to Bad Taste to Pink Flamingos to Showgirls to Big Lebowski to The Room to Southland Tales.
SPEAKER_02:So okay, let me cross a lot of these off my list here. Go continue. My list is a lot smaller now.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh keep that pen ready because you will have more to add. The history of cult films is transgressive oddities, low budget indie fare, underseen gems, big budget misunderstood flops, or bizarre personal projects with a devoted niche. Cult classics are a staple of the specialness of cinema and how it relates to the viewer and the medium. Now, sometimes this was like from outlawed film reels way back in the day to grindhouse drive-ins, true. From the 80s VHS closets to the high seas of internet streaming. Cult films have had a long and powerful journey. But that journey may be coming to an end.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, movies might be coming to an end. Who knows?
SPEAKER_01:Well, movies will all be made, just not not by humans.
SPEAKER_02:Well, theaters are definitely coming to an end.
SPEAKER_01:Theaters are having a tough time. But uh part of this is that that is some of the reason why cult films may be a thing of the past, or rather that they are changing distinctly in how they are recognized and passed on. But we'll get to that. Let's get a little bit into what makes a cult film. Generally, a cult film is defined as a movie that has developed a dedicated and passionate fan base over time, often due to its unique or unconventional qualities. These are typically have small initial audiences, but through word of mouth, they gained popularity. Oftentimes they would have uh unique screenings devoted to the film and underground distribution, or maybe not pass through the main hallways of cinema.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So you cannot include Star Wars, but you can include mainstream stuff like Rocky Horror or Big Lebowski.
SPEAKER_01:Well, as as something we'll we'll find out, a cult film is amorphous in its definition. I agree. And really fluctuates between who's discussing it. I think it is safe to say that just because it came from the mainstream or you know, was a a tent bowl production with big cast, big actors, big budget, doesn't mean it can't develop into a cult film. But I will say that it is more difficult for that to happen. Right. And I think there are often better instances of what it means to truly be a cult film and all that entails. And we'll get into some of that. They're often characterized by quirky, off-beat, sometimes controversial content, and are often attracting viewers looking for something different or counter-cultural. They can be in any genre, but often have a unique niche appeal and a strong community aspect behind them, which tend to, at least in the past, lead to groups that develop ritualistic and cult behaviors.
SPEAKER_02:It I don't know that cult films have to, I mean, because like, yeah, when you talk about Rocky Horror or Big Lebowski, there are people that stage productions where people la you know participate in the experience or whatever, like cult ritualistic behaviors. But I don't know that that is necessary.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no. No, no, it it is not a a precursor, but it is a thing that helped develop some of these films and rose them up the ranks of uh visibility and being known. And it is that like cult devotion to these films that I think arose both like the terminology and what made them stand out and become classics of our day. So it's often an elaborate subculture where members engage in repeated viewings, you know, in these specific big-time tent pole cult films, like a Rocky Horror Picture Show or The Room or Big Lebowski, where you get like dialogue quoting and audience participation. But it is an inclusive definition as well to include box office bombs or obscure transgressive films that were shunned by the mainstream. It's again a difficult term to describe everything that a cult film can be because it's drawing from a lot of of things. You know, uh originally the term was first used in the 70s to describe the culture that surrounded underground films and midnight movies, though cult was in common use in film analysis for decades prior to that. Now, again, they trace their origin back to controversial and suppressed films that had been kept alive by dedicated fans over many years. But over time, the landscape of film has changed. And especially in the 80s, after failing at the cinema, some cult films became regular fixtures on cable television or profitable and widely distributed on the home video market. Again, some of these have inspired film festivals, you know, some have ritualistic viewings and participation, like a Rocky Horror, every Halloween.
SPEAKER_02:Hell yeah. Big Lebowski has those too. I've actually attended some of those where they will do skits. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And a lot of it is about like it's the love for the movie, and the community comes together to participate in the viewing, sharing that experience as a group.
SPEAKER_02:That that phenomenon that I think is not exclusive to, but mainly tied to Rocky Horror and Big Lebowski, the audience participation, the appeal of cult films in general, I think has a lot to do with community, even with sports, whatever. It but but in a non like combative or like violent way that you would think of tribalism. And cult movies in general give you that sort of camaraderie that creates a community.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I 100% agree. And I think a lot of that often comes from the content of these films that tend to develop that cult fervor behind them. A lot of cult films frequently break cultural taboos. Uh many feature excessive displays of violence, gore, sexuality, profanity, or different combinations of those things.
SPEAKER_02:Would you consider faster pussycat kill kill a cult film? I mean, from the hip, yes. I would I would. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now, in the past, a lot of this led to controversy, sometimes censorship or outright bans. While less transgressive films may attract similar amounts of controversy when critics call them frivolous or incompetent. Films that fail to attract the requisite amount of controversy may face resistance when labeled as cult films. Mainstream films and big budget blockbusters have attracted cult followings similar to more underground and lesser-known films. Fans of these films often emphasize the film's niche appeal and reject the more popular aspects. This is where we need to talk about a couple other labels you can put on films that also are part of the Venn diagram of cult films. One of those is underground films. So underground films deal, I think, more with movies that are made outside of the conventions of the system. A lot of times they have a raw, sometimes amateurish quality to them.
SPEAKER_02:Can I present a possibility of one of those?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Jesus Christ Vampire Hunter.
SPEAKER_01:I think that would work.
SPEAKER_02:It's one of the first films I bel I feel in the sort of post-analog era as an example of a of a amateurishly made cult film. It was probably shot on handicams or maybe you know digital tape, but it was not a traditional like eight millimeter or high-eight type. Um and and I think I think the reason it got made was because now that technology is way more accessible starting in that era. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I think with the then proliferation of digital, you have you know a whole realm of of new filmmakers who need there are less barriers to making a film. And whether you're shooting something for you know$10 million or you're making something on a estimated$100 budget, like Who Killed Captain Alex from the Ugandan Wokaliwood, super action. Whoa. That is a cult film in the in and of itself that has like become worldwide. You can find it just about anywhere. And amateurish is definitely a way to describe it, but there it's the exuberance and just like the the feel that that film has spread it for you know since 2010 to all corners of the globe and developing a fan base that truly, truly loves it. Now it has a certain vibe to it that might not everyone might get down with, but you know, as opposed to an underground film, which that is, it's a cult film because it may not have been popular at the time, but over the years has developed a strong following around it. You could say something else like The Room, sure, similarly, or definitely like a lot of Ed Wood's productions.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, Planet Night from Outer Space is maybe the most other than Rocky Horror, the most famous cult film of all time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. An underground film is more of an an aesthetic resource definition, while a cult film is more about how the audience perceives it and reacts to it and develops around the film.
SPEAKER_02:Right. That's that's that's fair. Uh because like you know, you've got a script. Let's get let's do that. No, no, no, I want to hear what you have to say.
SPEAKER_01:I want to hear what you have to say.
SPEAKER_02:I was just thinking, like, there are underground things that are extremely well regarded in the spectrum of budget and studio involvement or whatever, that I think you're you were right when you mentioned that a little different than cult films, they're just kind of underseen. But it's really hard to nail that down. For instance, the documentary American Movie, which I think is fantastic. Yeah. I think I don't think it's a cult film, but I think there is a culture around it. I think it's just an underseen film. If more people saw it, I think it would be extremely popular.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that gets us into another definition. You have cult, you have underground film, right, and then you have under scene film.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And an underseen film that lacks recognition, the low viewership or general lack of awareness amongst John Q public. These often have like potential quality. A lot of times they were critically praised, but few people saw them, kind of developing into like a cinematic gem that falls through the cracks, either by way of distributor marketing, you know, lack of exposure, no name recognition. I think something like this, you know, uh again, this is like for early filmmakers. Uh you have a lot of underseen gems. Christopher Nolan's the following. Ooh, yeah. Pie from Darren Aronofsky. Sure. Uh now, these are both a lot of times they can be underground in the way that they were made, like both of those were black and white, you know, made for relatively minimal budgets compared, especially to their later projects with relatively unknown actors. And a lot of times the production and distribution is either self-financed or through a smaller company, or is later bought by a big company after doing well on you know, circuits and and different festivals and whatnot. But essentially they're more like homegrown in that underground sense.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's interesting with with following because following is a precursor to memento. It's like his like test run for memento, kind of like how what's the Sam Raimi in the woods uh that he did before Evil Dead. It's it's that kind of thing. This is our proof of concept, and now let's make the big one. Even though the big one is still cult in underground. Like Evil Dead is uh one of the most cult films of all time, right?
SPEAKER_01:But in the way that there is there's a cult following but behind Evil Dead, but there isn't a cult following for In the Woods.
SPEAKER_02:True. Well, yeah, especially since that only came out uh what 20 years ago? They found the eight millimeter under under Bruce Cable's bed or whatever. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I would say something like Pi. I think it is appreciated.
SPEAKER_02:Great movie.
SPEAKER_01:But as an undersea film, there wasn't a dedicated, organized community of fans championing it.
SPEAKER_03:True.
SPEAKER_01:It's just that most people don't know it exists, similar to the following. You know, again, not to like belabor these, but I think these are good examples of early filmmakers before they had major success. They went on to do big films, and people know those big films. People know Interstellar, they know The Dark Knight, they know Inception, but they don't necessarily know the following.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Again, it's an underseen film, but not necessarily a cult film.
SPEAKER_02:How would you categorize Blood Simple? I think or even Miller's Crossing.
SPEAKER_01:I would probably say those feel more like underseen gems. Okay. And they do cult fair. Okay. I would say maybe even like if I were to pick a cult film from the ouvre of the Cohen brothers, I think the two that come to mind would be Barton Fink. Okay. And the oh the Hudsucker proxy? The baby one.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, the oh, what Hudsucker's there. Well, Hudsucker's a really interesting example because that was their first big budget movie. They spent a lot of money on that movie and it bombed. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Raising Arizona. That was one.
SPEAKER_02:That's a more cult film, sure. I think that's we considered a cult film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think there are elements to the Hudsucker that, but I just don't know if they're one. I think some of the stuff that you need, again, you need the the fan base to really gather up around it. You know, you need to develop traditions within the Cinephile community, you know, stuff like midnight screenings, you know, a real fervor for the film that lasts many years. I think that it also doesn't need it, but I think the best cult films that really make them stand out is the transgesso content. You know, these unusual, quirky, offbeat, or controversial in themes, often breaking cultural taboos, whether that's violence, sexuality, unique narratives, that generally fall outside of the standard conventions. I think there are elements to that in Raising Arizona. I think there are elements to that in Barton Fink. I don't know if Hudsucker has those.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's got a quirk.
SPEAKER_01:And I think I think a quirk counts. But I also don't think the quirk is if we're if we're rating quirk levels, I don't think it's to a Barton. I don't think it's to uh an Arizona level.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I agree. I don't think it's as quirky as raising Arizona, but I you don't think it's as quirky as Barton Fink?
SPEAKER_01:No, I I mean I'm remembering like the end of Barton Fink, you know, with John Goodman, you know, that that huge character and the fire in the hallways and then screaming around. I mean, it's the you know, Hutsucker, uh Hutsucker's uh it's it's cute, but it it's it's not doing the same things. It doesn't need to, you know.
SPEAKER_02:If Hutsucker Proxy wasn't a big budget movie, if it wasn't a big flop, would it have been considered a cult hit, do you think?
SPEAKER_01:I think one of the big things that's keeping it uh uh other than like its possible lack of transgressive themes, that it doesn't have that same fan appeal. I don't think people talk about Hudsucker Proxy.
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_01:I don't think people are like huge fans of Hudsucker Proxy. I don't think it's a bad movie though, both of the time and afterward.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's not saying it's a bad movie. You can have great movies that aren't cult films. Yeah, they can be underseen, they can be underappreciated.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But if we're trying to make a definable tangible thing that we can sink our teeth into, some things just don't make the cut. And it's not even necessarily a better thing to be a cult film. Oh no. You know, I mean the room is a cult film, not because it's good. No, because it's bad.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Yeah, not in the in the so bad it's good. It's in it's in the way that it's so bad it's absurdly bad. But still kind of like watchable in a weird way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There is an ineffable quality to some of these films where it just connects to the fan base. You know, not necessarily even at it could be at the time, could be long after the fact. Um, I think a lot of cult films they tend to just not do well out of the gate, and they develop a fan base which makes it a cult film because it can't be one of those without that. Like Troll 2. But it's not necessarily, yes. Again, you know, a horrible film that is an enjoyable watch, but you're not laughing with the film. No, no, no. You're laughing at the film. Right. But that doesn't matter in in a cult status. This isn't a uh a red ribbon. This is lifting the film up from the floor up to the ceiling as you know, something that we all love. We're not saying it's great, we're saying we love it. Highlander isn't a great film, but we love Highlander.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I do have one film that I will hold off on on mentioning because I'm I'm wondering if you're gonna get to it, but I think I have a perfect encapsulation of that as a modern cult. Well, not modernism in the last 10 years, but a modern-ish cult film. So we'll let's see how this goes.
SPEAKER_01:All right. So we have a decent idea, I think, of where we feel makes a cult film. There are books and books, pages and pages of what makes a cult film and the further details, but we're not trying to do a podcast on what makes a cult film. We just kind of give you a little layout for the discussion. I'm really interested with this about the evolution of cult films and what it means for today and for the future. Especially in the 80s into the 90s, a lot of cult films were passed around via physical media. And a lot of it was about access to these films. The harder it was to find, the more mystique a film had.
SPEAKER_00:And when you finally got to see them, and half the time they're not what they say they are.
SPEAKER_01:And if they lived up to some type of expectation, you felt the need to pass that on.
SPEAKER_00:Guys, when you hear the word guys, turn around and greet the newest infamous tape in your collection.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's how like Big Lebowski gained status. It was on that secondary market, renting those VHS tapes and later those DVDs. And then you saw it, just like, oh, I gotta show my buddy this. Guys, you gotta see this tape. And it went on and on. Donnie Darko was the exact same way. Donnie Darko's a perfect example. A film that did middling to low at the box office, but on the rental circuit, it really found a foothold. You know, it really spoke to an audience and became something special for the cinematic culture. Now, in our current landscape, DVDs are dead. They're a niche market similar to vinyl records. You know, you have collectors, but it's not a market mover. Most places they don't even sell physical media in a retail location. There's no more video stores you can go in and browse through and find those gems that maybe they're underseen, maybe they're even a cult classic, but they were all at your fingertips to both find out about, discover, see, enjoy, learn to love, and then pass along to people. You don't have that anymore. Now everything is video on demand or peer-to-peer file sharing.
SPEAKER_02:Everything's computer. There are still some locations you can go to to find those, but they are very niche.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. It used to be that those were the arbiters of culture and cult films. But back then you had to seek out independent video store or the repertoire cinema to watch these. But now everything's just at the click of a button. Not only can you see everything, but you can make anything. Some people are hinting that this might be the death of cult cinema. Now it's debatable whether this ease of access is a hindrance to developing a dedicated fan base for a perfect particular thing. But there is at least one other element that is standing in the way, and that is the fracturing of the media scape. Up until it depends on who you ask, and you can find particular points of derivation and nullifying end bits, but we can all, I think, agree that essentially monoculture is dead. Everyone now exists in their bubbles, and through social and media fragmentation, which has been heightened by algorithms, you are siloed into your own media space. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the fact that there isn't a monolithic thing that everybody experiences, interacts with, likes or dislikes, that kind of gives you a touchstone. That then things that are are not that mainstream, they have nothing to compete with at this point. Now everything's kind of on a similar level. Now you do have things that break through. You know, I think uh Game of Thrones, that was one of the last dying embers of the monoculture. You have things that pop up, you know, like we all know about Hoctua Girl or whatnot. Uh, or you know, there used to be a time when we were trying to figure out whether a dress is blue or gold.
SPEAKER_02:You do still have the major networks too, which are shockingly still watched, you know, like you have Survivor and you have Dancing with the Stars. Those are still what we used to call mainstream and are still mainstream and seen by a majority of people. The Bachelor, the seen by a majority of people.
SPEAKER_01:I don't watch that shit, but I don't think they are seen by a majority of people. Well, at least they're known. That is the thing. They are known, but I think now one part of the monoculture was a time. So if you wanted to watch X-Files, you had to be there at eight o'clock on Friday night. If you wanted to be checking out and debating what the shark means with the symbol or what these people on the island are doing, you had to tune in to see Lost and figure out all the details of this wild speculative island. Now, if you want to watch Survivor, watch the next day. Watch it a week from now, watch it six months from now. You know, you can you can binge watch all dancing with the stars after the fact.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You're always gonna have uh a certain, you know, dedicated fans of those things, yes, but there is nothing personally other than sports that I watch essentially when it's on. Everything is after the fact, everything is chunked and segmented. We'd wanted to talk about Daredevil recently, many, many moons ago. The Daredevil Born Again. You had seen it pretty much long after the fact that when it came out. Yeah. And I have been slowly making my way through the Netflix Daredevil again because I wanted to catch up before I saw this new thing. It's not that we won't all eventually see it, but the fact that we're not participating in a shared media experience any longer, that everything is segmented, everything is on our own timetables, and everything is on demand, that breaks the monoculture. Now, it isn't that we all don't know what the great race is or you know, Survivor or whatever, but the people who are watching it, especially on broadcast air television, it is getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. Yeah. Uh to the point where you can't say that most people have seen this, they might know it. Again, just an anecdote example. I had a coworker just the other day who's like, hey, have you heard about this squid game? I just found out about this. Now, to me, that's like I mean, Squid Game was what, four, five years ago when it was big? It was a while ago. It was a while ago, but again, we're all in our own bubbles now. You see what your algorithm shows you, you were exposed to what your particular friend group was, whether it's in person, online, in the workplace, whatever. And you can be completely cut off from what other people might consider huge cultural media titans that just go completely by the wayside because you have no idea about that. Because you it's just not part of your media infrastructure. Because there is none anymore.
SPEAKER_02:I agree with you in general. However, I do think that those kind of phenomena also happened back then, it's just in a different structure. Like oh, nobody watched Kolchak the Night Stalker when it was on TV, but that's because you know that was for different reasons. It was more like you didn't know it was on, or it you it wasn't advertised well enough, or it didn't have as broad an appeal as you would think, you know. But Kolchak wasn't part of the monoculture. Yeah, we are kind of siloed, but we have more access now than we did before. We do. But you also used to have syndication or people taping stuff uh off TV. So you still had the ability to re-watch things later, but it's just That's true.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it is more accessible, but the there what I'm saying is that to have something that is counter-cultural, something that is outside of the mainstream, you have to have a culture, you have to have a mainstream. Well, yeah, otherwise it's all just different things. Now you can say you do you Kolchak. Yeah, but Kolchaker wasn't full house, Kolchak wasn't Dynasty, Kolchak wasn't MASH, Kolchak wasn't Seinfeld. You had things that everybody saw and everybody knew. Now it wasn't an access thing at that time, but now if you put up a new version of Kolchak, which they did, you know, now that doesn't hold any more weight on a streaming app screen than Landman or what was the the Dutton's ranch show?
SPEAKER_02:Yellowstone. Yellowstone never seen it. How do I know that?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. A, you're aware of it, so it has more cultural relevance than the third or fourth Coltreck remake. But you also when there was a time when you had four movies at the multiplex, that's what was on, and you had five channels, maybe uh a couple other channels that you paid extra money for, and they all showed the same thing at the same time, and that's how we all identified at the office cooler the next day what happened on XYZ because we all watched the same thing. We're all aware of what happened, but now it's free rain, and nothing nothing stands out amongst other things, because everything is the same. I mean, it's different if you're watching over-the-air TV, but again, that is uh such a small number compared to what it used to be, especially for generations now who are watching things on their TV, their Roku, their iPad, their phone.
SPEAKER_02:Which is why a CBS has shows that last for 17 seasons, because they have shows that appeal to old people who still remember watching TV over the air.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Now again, we can make rash generalizations on who is the primary market mover for a law and order or you know, a survivor, you know, dancing with the stars. But I think there is an element of an older generation which hasn't adapted to streaming in the same way.
SPEAKER_02:Boomers and Gen X, that's what we're talking about. Those are the people who watch on air TV. Well, no, not that's not true. Though because like I know people that are younger than me that are obsessed with and they all talk about it with each other, like dancing with the stars or Survivor with a bachelor. Like that those are those things do still exist. Those are still pillars of on-air television.
SPEAKER_01:There are those same pillars, they don't matter in the same way as like K-pop Demon Hunters is a pillar of fandom and excitement and media intake, similar to a dancing with the stars. In fact, it may have more views globally than a dancing with the stars. Yeah. But you know, you have your unique things that you are into that is different for everyone, as opposed to the way it used to be, where we had a few things that were for everyone. You may not even like those, and you would F off to something else. That is how you get underseen gems, that is how you get cult films, but when you now have it fractured where there isn't as much of a mainstream juggernaut, too bad against everything is equal. And that's it's not a bad thing. I'm not I'm not really against that. It's exciting for us to have the ability to watch anything we want, but it does possibly hinder the uniqueness of underground cinema, underground media, things that are that are underseen because essentially most things become underseen. Now, again, you have things that people gravitate towards too a lot of times because of the content, you know, the MCU. Every you know, so many people have seen the MCU and they follow along with the MCU films. That's like one of the last vestiges of what might equate to modern-day monoculture and our fragmented mediascape. But when you're on your Disney Plus app, Gardens of the Galaxy 3 holds no more weight than the Sorcerer's Apprentice or the Devil Wars Prada.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but doesn't the consolidation of those giant networks kind of lead more toward a monoculture? Just in sort of a different format? Because now that Disney owns Fox, Lucasfilm, Marvel, you know, everything under the sun, doesn't that make it more mainstream? I don't know, does it? I think it's worth examining. You know, those things used to be more niche before Disney owned all of it. A lot of the phenomena we're talking about is like back in the day, there used to be only like three or four networks. That was it. And cable was kind of a niche thing. You know, your Larry Sanders, your HBO, yada yada yada. Then it became really diversified when we're at like a thousand networks going out there, like sci-fi channel bringing stuff into the zeitgeist and Bravo and all that kind of stuff. But now that everything's consolidating again, it's like we're back to where we were when there was just ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox. Because now you have Disney, Paramount, Warner Brothers, and increasingly less.
SPEAKER_01:I would say yes and no. Yes, and that those big properties are now under the auspices of big mega corporate conglomerate. You know, just one, two, or three essentially companies own most of the media there. Yes. But you are not forced to watch Captain America, the Falcon, or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right, right. I see what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:As opposed to if there was just a Disney channel and that was one of your five channels, then that's what they played. That's what you had to watch. And that everybody would be subjected to that same thing at the same time. But you're not forced to go to Disney Plus. You can go to you know whatever other streaming service you want. And those other streaming services have nigh on infinite possibilities to watch. Now, the algorithm and what the company pushes into your feed can influence what is brought to you, and you might have to work harder to find something different to watch, but there is no specific time, place, or product that everyone is interacting with at the same time.
SPEAKER_02:Right, because like if you all up to you. Yeah, because like it used to be, I I know what you're saying. If you if you wanted to watch TV, you had like four channels, and everybody so everybody saw the same number of things. There weren't like a bunch of things you could watch. And even if now we only have a few channels, they at least have so many options that you can watch on demand that it ch it changes the game. Media isn't consumed the same way, but media isn't consumed the same way as when Metropolis came out. So I this is an ever-changing, ever-evolving thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, 100%. But I think it does come into the way that we view how we define these films and how we interact with them. Again, something like K-pop Demon Hunters, just for a relevant modern, recent example, is something that kind of came out of nowhere. I think is still relatively underseen in the totality of people engaging with media, but has developed a fan base that is rabid for the product. They were so unprepared for the excitement around this that kids are clamoring for toys and outfits and anything with K-pop demon hunters that they have to go to Etsy for special made things because the licensing deals and the none of the toys are ready. They just didn't expect this. But the demand is so much bigger than they anticipated.
SPEAKER_02:I mean it's it's basically what happened with Star Wars.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he planned ahead when he made that contract, and I think there was a lot of like there were some production issues that got in the way of them getting toys to market at the time they should have been.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, a lot of people turned them down. I think for this, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yes, but he knew ahead of time that I'm gonna try and make some money by marketing this film outside of the theater. I don't think that the people behind K-pop Demon Hunters were prepared for the level of excitement and desire for things related to their film. Now, whether it's gonna be thought of as a cultural touchstone or even a cult classic 10 years down the line, I don't know. I think there's a lot of stuff, especially for kids, that tends to be a bit more flash in the pan. You know, one thing when I was going through making a list of things to discuss about modern and future cult classics, so cult classics may be maybe going away. We're all getting red segmented and our fractured mediascapes, but I think there are things that do bleed through. There are especially feature films that have found fan bases currently, and I think are just gonna grow in appreciation into the future. And as a podcast of its time, I want to help expose some of you to things you may not have seen. I always find that enriching personally. We'd like to thank you for taking this journey with us down the strange winding road of what it cult films are and what they can be and what they will be. But until we become a cult classic ourselves, Skip, what should they do?
SPEAKER_02:Well, they should probably clean up after themselves to some sort of reasonable degree. Uh supported their local comic shops and retailers, and from Dispatch Ajax, we would like to say Godspeed, fair wizards.
SPEAKER_01:Classic.