159th Episode Spectacular!

We celebrate our 159th with - among many Geeky things - a fast, funny tour of Star Trek’s dangling threads, from Tasha Yar’s exit to the lost “Conspiracy” arc, plus DS9’s long-game brilliance and Voyager’s resets. We field listener questions on Avengers, The Question, X-Men deep cuts, and stage a Borg Cube vs Death Star face-off. Plus, Data and the Force?

Transcript

Anniversary Cold Open & Banter

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've seen a penis so large I've forgotten who and where I am.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds.

SPEAKER_03 0:08

Are they the proper approach pattern for today?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our one hundred fifty-ninth episode spectacular. We have seen the mountain.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

We are here. It's kind of like climbing up that mountain and do Androids dream of electric sheep?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I was just thinking that too. It's like you're sufficient podcasters' dilemma. Horrors and struggle the entire way. But it's the struggle that defines the journey. Indeed. And then also maybe you'll get an owl out of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

So I am your let us pray traveler, Jake. And this is the traveler Valmer guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Oh, I was gonna say Star Trek the next generation, the traveler. Oh the Traveler has come. Yes, I combine warp theory with God and magic with whatever you have lying around, and I'll turn it into some sort of like pseudo-eastern philosophy. Or you a god. I'm just one lonely man with with uh forehead prosthetics who understands warp bubble theory.

Setting Up The “Dirty Dangles”

Tasha Yar’s Exit And Legacy

SPEAKER_02 1:42

You know what? This goes right into something I wanted to get into. Sure, yeah. What I'm gonna call the dirty dangles. Wow. These are the dangling plot threads and questions I have for Star Trek, probably mostly uh highlighting just next gen right now. Okay. Things I am intrigued about and I'd like to ask you about. Because every single time that my wife and I are watching Star Trek of any kind, something comes up and she'll look at me and is like, wait, what is this? What is this about? And I'll try to do like this half-assed explanation. Usually I'm floundering, and you know, I always say, uh, I'll I'll ask Skip next time I talk to him. Sure. Okay, so first off, I want you to explain, if you can, what's the deal with Tasha Yar and why did she leave the first season?

SPEAKER_01 2:36

So she didn't feel like her character was given any substance or like it was developed well enough. She said that she felt like she was just prop on the set. She just felt like a not even a character, and then decided to pursue other things. I do believe that's probably true that she believed that. But I think the problem was the same thing with the uh the other dude from Chips or the other dude from Miami Vice, where it was like they thought they were hotter shit than they were. Right. And were like, no, I'm gonna go do my thing, and then I mean, thankfully she didn't do the classic mistake of putting out an album. You know what I mean? She felt undersung and underserved. But I'm like, okay, go back and watch those episodes. You told me LeVar Burton and Michael Dorn didn't have the same treatment?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

In the episode I remember Jordy's given control of the enterprise because everybody else of significance is off the ship. And the chief engineer was like, hey, I outrank you. Why are you in control? I should be in control of the ship. And Jordy has to be like, no, it's me, and then Troy has to walk me through, hold his hand, and be like, oh, you know, you know, you want to like be inclusive, but also like take their thoughts and do, you know, blah blah blah. And that that guy, like, he's specifically like discussed as like the chief engineer, but he isn't seen again in the rest of the season, and then the beginning of second season, he's gone. Yeah, one or just off the ship, and Jordy is is put in charge.

unknown 4:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Which is the first one. That's one of the things about like you know, when you go back and rewatch that first season, why is Jordy doing the same job that fucking Wesley will do after that? Fucking nobody podunk piece of shit.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Well, the idea initially for Geordie was that it was ironic to have a blind man be the navigator. Which, okay, I get it, but I don't know if that's is sustainable for seven seasons, which they proved isn't, very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Yeah.

Geordi’s Role, Ops Vs. Nav, O’Brien

SPEAKER_01 4:36

And they have this the same problem in the first season, they have the very same problem that they had in the original series, where it's like, okay, so you have Sulu is the navigator. Okay, he sits in one chair. Get it. Then you have somebody else sit on the other side, and they are question mark? Right. Uh and you never know exactly who they were, and it depends on who's writing the episode and like what random character actor is sitting in that seat. But at least later on in TNG, when they finally like solidify things more rigidly, you're like, okay, one is ops, which is finally a thing, and then the other one is navigation. And so they have a rotating, you know, rotating pilot. But like if you watch the first season, it's like Colmeini as Miles O'Brien is sitting in ops at some points. Is he in the fridge?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

I don't remember seeing him there. He's in front of episode one, baby. Is he? Oh man. Okay. Totally the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Interesting. He doesn't want to be a good one.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Which is really much in first season.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

No, he doesn't. And well, he's an encounter at Far Point, but then he gets stuck in the transporter room. He becomes the transporter chief after season one.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

After season one, like in season two, like that's where he's stationed.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

There is some funny online comic, webcomic strip series about the day in the life of Miles O'Brien, transporter chief O'Brien, and it's just him like sitting and staring for like panels on panels and upon panels, and then like pushing a button, and then somebody beams out, and then him just staring again in the beginning. And you're like, yeah, of course, what else are you doing? You're standing at that fucking console hoping somebody beams in and out? Is that all you do all day? That seems a sad, lonely existence.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

It's kind of like he's like, he's doing nothing, and then he has to make sure someone gets to and fro without all of the transporter accidents that are always happening. That's life and death. Like it is, it's just to press those buttons right.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

It's a little bit like my job, not not life and death, but it's like there's a lot of sitting around and not doing anything until the show starts, and then you better fucking be on it all of the sudden.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And if you're not, you're really in trouble. Alright, number two.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Was it a similar situation with Beverly Crusher? Because at the beginning of second season, they put in Pulaski, who I mean, I don't know if I mean, obviously she was written to be a piece of shit, and you're supposed to hate.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Well, yeah, that was always my interpretation too. I have heard other people make arguments that she's just supposed to be that it's kind of a misogynistic view of her because all they're doing is her is giving her the you know, Leonard McCoy, the bones treatment. But when it when it's a woman, it comes off as horrible. My argument was different than that. I specifically thought of the incident where she's examining data and she calls him Dadis.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

And she's like, Well, what's the difference? And he's like, Well, one's my name.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

And she just doesn't seem to understand.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

She is awful to data. She's like, that thing over there, oh, this the souped-up calculator. She is like the most racist to data. She is hostile to everybody she encounters. She she's like not doing her job very well in general.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

She condescends majority about not cloning his own his eyes, and he's like, Well, I don't want that. And she's like, Why? She's like, Because I don't want that. And she doesn't seem to understand. And she's like, okay, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

She's so shitty. And it's because she's a woman. Did you know who who didn't think my my feminist wife, when she said Pulaski's a piece of shit.

Beverly Crusher, Pulaski, And “Ghost Lover”

SPEAKER_01 8:11

She sucks. But even though I've I I know women who are like total supporters of Pulaski, and I'm like, I don't get it. I don't I don't understand why people support her. I totally see why they went after Gates McFadden to come back. Gates wanted to do more Broadway stuff. She wanted to do more stage stuff. So Gates McFadden was traditionally a Broadway person, in fact, a choreographer. Famously, she did the choreography for the labyrinth. I'm sorry, Labyrinth. Yes. Cot piece and all, eh? Right, yes. Well, that's who you think stuffed that thing. No, she did a bunch of stuff where like if you watch the if you watch the DVD or slash Blu-ray extras, there are scenes where they show behind-the-scenes stuff where she is choreographing the dances with the the puppeteers for a lot of the dance sequences that happened, especially with those like weird ostrich-looking creatures. And yeah, she's in that. That's what she did. That was how she made her money, and she didn't really like how television worked and the scheduling and all that. But when that kind of dried up and she realized the TV was and everyone hated Kate Pulaski, they went back to her and then gave her some more money, and then she was like, Yeah, I'll come back. It's much more steady work. And she was much more loved by the fan base.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

So she knew that she had to come back so that she could sleep with the same ghost that slept with her mother and her grandmother.

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Just watched that episode two days ago. Why are more people not upset about this episode? Oh, here's the episode where Beverly fucked a ghost. Played by the guy who was Dracula and Matra Squad. That is 100% true. Yes, you're right. And she and not just a ghost, an alien ghost who fucked every woman in her family. Yeah. It's a family affair, apparently, for the Howards. Truly. That's that's cock to die for. I really don't understand how that works at all. And then every no one treats it weirdly until like kind of the end when Jean-Luc is like, I think you're full of shit. But everyone else is just like, oh, so you're fucking a ghost, huh? Cool. That sounds awesome. You know, like even like Deanna comes to her, she's like, oh, you're seeing someone, aren't you? Tell me more details, you know? And it's like, she's fucking a ghost! There's a problem here.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

That's about she's like, oh, I see you're getting that good ghost dick, aren't you? Tell me about that. Does he have any ghost friends?

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Deanna has that whole sit-down with her, she's just like, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were seeing someone. And she just smiles at her. She goes, Well, now I know you're seeing someone. And then it would be funnier if they switched to, well, I was, but he ghosted me.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

They'll do that. More dangling, dirty dangles here. Alright. In the first season, I feel like they set up two main storylines. They have lot lots of different, you know, beginnings of thoughts. But the two they set up, I think, are Wesley is being like your boy to grow up with the Enterprise, and maybe he's important down the road. Wunderkind, yes. Yes. Two is there's a conspiracy in Starfleet. Something's going on behind the scenes. And they have at least two episodes, if not more, where they're like, hey, what have have you seen hey, Picard, you seen anything? Shit going down? What do you know? Oh, I can't say anything. We'll talk about it another time in person. Which ends with the episode Conspiracy, where we find out that there are I call them mouth aliens.

SPEAKER_03 11:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:40

Because I it kind of looks like a tongue, and it always reminds me of that Star Trek, the customizable card game one where like the character has that coming out of his mouth. Right. It's just like that's the picture of my head constantly. But it's these aliens that are from somewhere far off, and they go in through your mouth, and then they wrap around, like, I don't know, like the butt the bottom of your brain, and they boost your adrenaline, and they've spread out throughout Starfleet, and they're secretly maneuvering things and orchestrating different machinations of the way that people are distributed and they're killing people. I mean, they have like this big character that they set up that they just do away with right away, and then you find out where the mama alien is, and it's inside this guy who'd visited the enterprise before. And without asking questions, without further investigation, you know, as real explorers do, both Riker and Picard just murk this thing and it blows up like scanners.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Which is really funny because they they blow off his entire upper torso.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah. Boom, he just blows up. And then I guess if you kill the head vampire, all the vampires that were made by him just turn back to human. I guess that's what happened with all of these people in Starfleet across the galaxy. But it's my understanding they never go back to this ever again.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Nope. Correct? Correct. They never address it ever again. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

There's an alien species somewhere out there that has been invading this quadrant at least and putting brain worms, essentially, all throughout, and they could be out there and coming back, but they never touch on it again. Just nope. Seems it weird. What's the question?

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Because that's exactly what happens. They never just ever explained.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Hey, is that is that how it goes? Oh, it is. Alright. No, that's it.

The Starfleet Conspiracy That Vanished

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Did you ever watch the third season of Picard?

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Not yet. I am on the second season Picard, which so far I am not liking, and it is taking a long time to get through.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

It sucks. The only good thing that comes out of the second season Picard, from what I can remember, just even off the top of my head, is seeing Baltar in a Starfleet uniform. It's the only thing that oh yeah, he shows up. Yeah. Something to look forward to, I guess. It's like a flashbackslash dream or something, but it was kind of like a tip of the cap that I thought was very, very satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Is he nervously having sex with a tall blonde? No, sadly, he plays a counselor. Really ironic. He's counseling and you know, it's a back and forth, you know, and he's like seems to be a little off-put and his mind a little somewhere else. And then when whoever he's counseling leaves the room, camera pans back, and there's a blonde, hot blonde, sitting on his shoulder. Reaching his hand under his uniform.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

Yeah, but it's Tasha Yar. Fine with that. You'd prefer it'd be her sister.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oof. Yeah. She was good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

That's the one thing I was thinking about the other day, because I rewatched TNG too just the other day. I watched, I just marathoned the entire thing the other day. Over, of course, a series of weeks, but like. In a row? I put it on eight times speed and then watched the entire thing. No, so then I, you know, I remember that and I was like, okay, yeah, I get it. Marathon, I was shocked at how many times they bring Tasha back as a concept. Because I remember watching it live when it was coming out, and you're like, wow, Tasha, that's crazy. There's no way. Because they do yesterday's Enterprise, where Tasha comes back. And then because of that, later on, like a season more than a season later, they do Sila, her Romulan daughter, spoiler alert, where you know, you're like, oh, they're bringing that back. Okay, well, Tasha's a thing again. Okay. And then they do all good things where they go back, they flash back, and there's Tasha again. I'm like, I remember it being a really big deal that Tasha shows up and like being a big deal that Tasha like isn't seen again. And then seeing it all at once, you're like, well, Tasha shows up all the fucking time. I mean, I know she doesn't, but it just felt that way. But I mean, she just keeps popping back. Yeah. They did kind of redeem her death. And I can't say 100% for certain, but I'm pretty sure that when they kill Tasha off in the episode Skin of Evil, that the idea was, we've already written the season and now she wants out. Fuck it. We're gonna give her the shittiest death possible. Yes. So they do. And then in yesterday's Enterprise, when Gaynan realizes that Tasha shouldn't be there, she goes out of her way to be like, Well, she died a meaningless death. And everyone keeps going, yeah, her death sucked. There's no reason for that to happen. That was really awful. Pouring lemon juice into the wound type stuff to Denise Crosby. And I do feel like they eventually redeem it with yesterday's Enterprise, but it was just very it was very clear that it was like, fuck you, Denise Crosby, get the fuck out of here. Well, especially after she put out that doc she put out that documentary Trekkies, where she makes fun of Star Trek fans. It's really cynical and mean-spirited. To the extent where she got such a blowback from it that she put out a sequel that was way more reverent of Star Trek fans. It's almost identical to after Star Trek ended and Namoy put out that book, I am not Spock, and then later on put out that book, I am Spock.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

Like, oh wait, I I forgot where my bread is buttered. No, it's like no, things are good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I like more of a like a less cynical way that Shatner treats things, you know, like when Shatner went on SNL and did that whole skit making fun of Star Trek fans, but he never backed off from that. Namoy was like, you know what? I'm an idiot. This was the best thing I ever did. Fuck you. I'm gonna go back and say, yeah, I love it, sorry. Whatever, but I don't. This happens though. I mean, it happened to uh Billy in Battlestar. It happened to Billy. Rosie Perez was there when the human terrorists shot Billy in Battle Galactica. We all remember where we were.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Like the white men can't jump?

unknown 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

I have a lot more to one. Yeah, I was gonna talk about the Schism aliens, that they never came back, or the warp speed limitations, where we find out that going warp speed is like destroying the universe.

Voyager Handwaves And DS9 Payoffs

SPEAKER_01 17:45

It's an episode that I feel like is perilous from the start. There are several of those types of episodes on TNG toward the end where it's like, okay, we're gonna establish this thing that's super important, that is in short term a really interesting, intriguing idea that turns everything on its head. But going forward, how does this work? And if someone treats it well, you can make it work. However, what Star Trek did was they basically addressed it immediately in Voyager, when they just kind of offhand say, yeah, we fixed it. It's fine now. I don't even remember that. Yeah, it might have been even in some of the like press release stuff prior to when the show came out, but their whole thing was like, no, we have a new type of warp and it's fine. It doesn't, it doesn't damage fabric space anymore. So everything's cool. And then from then on, they never have to worry about exceeding warp, which is one of the reasons I think Voyager is so fucking cheap. My big thing about Voyager, and I know that people love Voyager, I know everybody has nostalgia for Voyager, which it completely permeates New Track, but at the same time, half of Voyager was just either unrealized potential, you know, stuff you left on the table, or just hand-wavy bullshit that kind of ruins everything. On paper, we're on the other side of the galaxy, all new species, prime directive might be out the fucking window, we don't know, like anything could happen. It's all there, and also we're gonna run into the Borg at some point. Cool, that sounds awesome. And then all it is is just fucking regular monster of the week bullshit with almost no long-term repercussions, including one of their only good arcs, which was uh I think it was called Hell Year, where they go through this whole thing where like their the ship is torn apart, they have to chip back together with Borg technology to keep it running, a bunch of them die, and then at the end of the arc they're like, we're back in time, we fixed it, it was fine. Everything's back to normal. Guys? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

What?

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Nothing ever happens in that show. Complete waste of potential, and is never more completely personify- or not personified, but completely typified by that. They just go, nah, warp's fine now. Never ask about it again. It's like that in Futurama episode where global warming is really killing everyone on Earth, and so the only thing they can do is a stopgap to like move Earth further away from the sun. And then some guy comes on the voiceovers just like, well, that's how they solved the problem once and for all. And then someone's like, wait, what about the once and for all?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

I won't necessarily disagree with you. I think there are limitations to the format of that type of Star Trek show and the weekly necessity and the ongoing seasons and etc. etc. I think they're good things, but I I I I get your point.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Well, Ben, at the same time, DS9 was moving away from the episodic thing and doing long arc, long story arc things and killing it. At the same time, Voyager went back to the episodic thing that had no impact on anything, but but DS9 was doing the opposite. They were doing stuff that had would like last forever, but treated well. It was like the difference between a well-run show and a show that just didn't want to take chances. I feel like there was a thing within within Berman's Little Cabal where they did Voyager almost to distance themselves from DS9. That's why DS9 is the ultimate middle child. It just happens to be the best. They went off of the the the because a lot of the people that worked on TNG toward the end, like TNG's peak, and just continued on to DS9. And those people just kept that up. I mean, you know, obviously the first couple seasons they don't really know what they're what they are yet. But when you finally get into the Dominion shit, especially the Dominion War shit, basically when Wharf joins the show, it's like, holy shit, this is exactly what we wanted. This is a continuation of the best of DS9, uh best of TNG. But Voyager was like, I don't really like the fact that they're changing how TV works, you know, and they just went back to this episodic bullshit that doesn't amount to anything. And I mean, it's one of the reasons that I pretty sure I mean that and then the really awful sort of initial response, even though I think it has gained purchase over the years as people rewatch it, the the the the the real kind of like backlash to enterprise because it was. Rick Berman and they were continuing the same thing, and during Enterprise, Rick Berman finally just gets fired. And they bring on a couple of different people, one of which is Chris Black, who ran Robocop the Series initially, by the way. Ha ha the good stuff. The best of all of it. It makes sense that the one of the when they re released one of the Robocop the Series seasons as a mini movie or whatever, it's called Prime Directive. That kind of makes sense now.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

True. Yeah. Anyway. It doesn't have to be all Star Trek show. That was just a a little, you know. Hey, this is this is what we do. We're uh a Geek Explainer podcast and the maybe not the ultimate, but definitely like, you know, I'd say top 2%, you know, in Star Trek explaining.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I don't know if I ever mentioned this to you, but back when if you remember, there was um there was that fad where there was like the trivia apps, you know, and they would do like live trivia stuff where you could win money. It was like like a year where like you would vaguely well it went bankrupt within like it was very short-lived. They had part of it that was Star Trek trivia. And when the thing folded, I was ranked number one in the world.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Oh shit, that is Undefeated, bitch.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

Undefeated.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

That's fucking nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah. But this is our anniversary. We're gonna throw a lot of shit at the wall here and see what sticks like a changeling. So what else you got?

Geek Movie Trailers: Krull, Ice Pirates, Ladyhawke

SPEAKER_02 23:27

On a distant planet, Prince Colwyn is to marry Princess Lyssa. And together, they will rule the galaxy. But the evil beast and his army of slayers kidnap Lyssa and take her to his disappearing black fortress. In this land of science and sorcery, he will need his love and the help of the Emerald Search the Widow of the Web, the Fire Mares, and the Cyclops Relve. Okay, as he fits his determination and the royal repute, and his mystical five-pointed glaive to defeat the Lovecraftian beast. It is Kroll!

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Alright. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

I did three of these. Okay. So I did them all. So do you want another one now? Yeah, go ahead. Alright. In the distant future, water has become incredibly scarce and so valuable that ice cubes are used as currency. In this dry galaxy, one man, Jason, leads his parched pirates on a quest to steal ice and survive this thirsty existence. While trying to thieve the water from space templars, he kidnaps the Princess Karina. Eventually joining him, he is saved from castration and lobotomy. Along with his shitty robots, Angelica Houston and Ron Perlman. They will find love, hope, a child, and ideally something to drink as they battle the supreme commander of the Templars, Zorn, and the quest for the mystical seventh world. They are Ice Pirates timed up perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

That's pretty I think we've never covered Ice Pirates. Nice job.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

I don't have the timing for this one down, and I don't think it's as good. I could try and do it. Should we just try and do it just so we have it?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah, sure, why not?

SPEAKER_02 25:44

Alright. Alright. So we have it.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

So we have it.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

Alright, number three. In medieval Italy. A young Matthew Broderick. The thief. Has escaped prison and is hunted by the Bishop of Aquila. It's a time of magic and romance. With Star Crossed lovers put to the test. During the day, Isabeau must live as a hawk. And by night, Navari a wolf. But they struggle to break the satana curse and reunite as humans. Will their love be strong enough to vanquish disenchantment, incur their revenge, and win the day. We shall only find out in Ladyhawk. I didn't grow up with Lady Hawk. I didn't watch it till I was an adult. It's this weird, bizarre It's this love story, and then there's like this magical MacGuffin that's keeping the people apart. And there's no other magic in the rest of the movie. It's not like Beastmaster, you know? It's just Italy, and people living their lives, and people like searching for power, and they just happen to have one lady who turns into a hawk, another guy who turns into a wolf because of this satanic enchantment. And it's like, okay? I mean, it's like I get your lover's romantic quandary here, but it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 27:20

Really, that movie is just like star-crossed anamorphs. It's not really much, but I'd much rather watch Legend than Ladyhawk. I don't know. Oh, yeah, Legendary.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

I don't think as many people have seen Ladyhawk, which is kind of why I picked it out. And it's such like a bonker's premise on its face.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

It's bizarre, but not like crazy bizarre, just kind of like kinda bizarre. Like Beastmaster's crazier, uh premise, but especially in the second.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

But it's also like it's it's set in like a distinctly fantasy world. That is true. You've got weird hawk people, you've got Riptorn throwing kids into a ziggurat fire.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

That whiskey habit doesn't feed itself.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

I need another drink. I'll do Beastmaster, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

Yeah, it just sounds like a classic Hollywood thing, like Orson Wells at the end of his life, you know? But the entire career of Riptorn.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

When I'm a transformer, I also like Italian wine in a box.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

And frozen peas. I have another book unrelated.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Let us open the holy text and let us read The Goot of the Dane.

Goot Of The Day And Hollywood Asides

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Ah, it's been a long time, old friend.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Welcome back. Welcome back. In 2009, Steve Gutenberg starred in Heidi for Paws, a live-action retelling of the 1880 classic Heidi, but done with fully articulated mouth dogs in the roll.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 29:00

While thought of as quaint, this is actually an example of Gutenberg opening up about his occult knowledge. Something that he has been tasked as a sacred keeper of. And only then passed on to human subjects as to spread joy and knowledge through the universe. That's been your goo of the day.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Oh, indeed it has. Good it up. My good of the day was going to be, quote, if you put down on a list of jobs, doctor, lawyer, janitor, teacher, or movie star, everyone would pick the movie star. And why? So you could lie around the pool, drink margaritas, and send money to your parents. So that's what I did. Sage wisdom. Sage wisdom.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

When in doubt, listen to the goot.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

It seems like there should be a rhyme there. I think you're missing a range.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

There should be, but it's Gutenberg, so that's the way it's named.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

When in gout. That doesn't even make sense.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Like uh when in goot, listen to the goot.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Oh yes, the famous accent of Steve Gutenberg. Well, he was in high spirits with Liam Neeson. Oh, and Liam Neeson was in Kroll. Whoa shit, he was! And has apparently one of the biggest dicks in Hollywood. I don't think I knew that. According to Angie Dickinson, in her in her biography, she said that Liam Neeson unzipped his pants and an avion bottle fell out. Jesus. That seems a little scary, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

Yeah, that's Willem Dafoe level. David Bowie, Cod peace times. You have to factor in grower versus shower type thing, too. I think in general we'd say like a lot of people who are appear to be well endowed, flaccid. I don't think they tend to be as big of changers, you know? Penile anamorphs, as they're called in the wild.

Listener Q&A: Avengers And The Question

SPEAKER_01 30:58

That's what we call penomorphs, yes. It's normally how we refer to them, yeah. I feel like that should be the sequel to Robot Jocks. Maybe I'm maybe that's what the jocks part of Robot Jocks is.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

In the future, all politics has become sex. And only through the use of robots shall one nation best the other in the sack.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

I have a little bit I thought it'd be kind of fun. I thought we'd do what we'd just revisit questions sent in by listeners. Oh. Oh, I love our listeners. This should be great. A lot of these are sort of trivia-oriented, some of them are opinion-oriented. I think they're sort of testing our knowledge, which I think you and I take as a personal affront, quite frankly, but we're gonna test my foot entertain this.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Listener ass.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

How about that? Our general disdain for the twelve listeners we have.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

I hate you all, truly. You're the scum of the earth and below it.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I'll read them out. If you have the answer, or an answer better than what I would come up with, feel free. We'll just sort of split this up here. Okay. Alright. Of the following, who was not an original Avenger? Captain Amir. Okay. Iron Man, Hulk, or Thor? This comes from Theeron Zephyrus of Dayton, Ohio. Theeron. Fucking Theeron! It's always Theuron, isn't it? Or Theon. Sometimes Theon's the one that fucks up.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Oh, fucking Theon.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

That's those Greyjoy.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Mr. Dickless over there. Uh okay, so we have Captain America or the Hulk.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

And Iron Man. Captain America, the first Avenger. So which of these is not an Avenger? Jake, I'll give this one to you.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Gotta think back. The olden days, you know?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

The Halcyon days, the salad days.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Hmm, Avengers salad. It's tasty.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I don't want to know what that is.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

Well, if you want the answer. It's 42. It's always 42. Even though Captain America originated decades before the Avengers, he didn't actually show up in the Avengers comics until he was found and unthawed and became a full-fledged member in issue number four of the Avengers. No, it was Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, and Wasp and Ant-Man are your inaugural Avengers team members.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Excellent answer, and keep in mind, I did not give him these questions ahead of time. This is how this works, folks. This is what we do, and this is what we know. This is the only way we figured out how to make our base of knowledge relevant. Let's just talk about it on the internet. Because everyone loves that. Alright, so. What is the altered ego of the DC character Victor Sage? And this comes from Dorian Varellos of North Bend, Indiana. Which I'm sure is a real place. Do you remember off the top of your head who Victor Sage is?

SPEAKER_02 34:15

It is it is at the tip of my tongue.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

If you want, I can give you a clue. He probably will point you in the right direction pretty quickly. That one is a little slightly obscure. Not really obscure, but slightly.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Can I ask a question?

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 34:33

I guess you don't have to answer, but I know that that Dorian would appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

I'll plead the fifth if necessary.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Does this character have magical powers? No. No.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

If you want, I can give you a clue.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

Okay, I'll take a clue.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

It is a Charlton character originally. The company that was purchased by DC with an entire line of very specific characters that would later be adapted into something else.

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Well, don't look it up. No, I'm just trying to think. I mean, like if you're Charlton characters, I mean it's not Blue Beetle, is it?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

It is not Blue Beetle. But you're in the same you're on the right path. You're in the same pantheon. Another bug-related character? No, no, I know. No, you're called it. Think about the other Charlton characters and what they eventually would be adapted to in a different DC property. Captain Adam? It's an interesting guess. No. Captain Adam would eventually become Dr. Manhattan. Remember?

SPEAKER_02 35:45

Skip, I might need a lifeline.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I don't know what that would entail in this scenario.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

But. Here, I'm gonna need to make a phone call. Let me see. How about the I'm looking at this Rarvey? Halol? Okay, alright. This is for no money. Okay. Do you know the Charlton character who came to the DC universe that is not Captain Adam or Blue Beetle, whose name is Is it Victor Savage? Victor Sage. Victor Sage.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

I mean, I wouldn't know because you're calling me randomly. Hang up, hang up, put somebody on who can who actually knows. Who is this? Jerry! I'm in the corner of first and first. I'm at the nexus of the universe! How about this? Famously wears a mask. Full face mask. Oh, okay. That helps a little bit. Help a lot, really. Wilt Chamberlain. It is Wilt Chamberlain, who still, according to his mathematically, if you look at his memoirs and his bombastic boasts of sexual conquests to this day, though he's been dead for years, is still having sex with women. He's got to. It is the question! Ah, okay. Nailed it! The question who, of course, then is adapted to become Rorschach by Alan Moore in Watchmen. Alright, so uh maybe a quarter of a point? Sure, yeah, since this is an arbitrary system that never agreed to award points in general. How about uh how about a new one? So, what material does Hone Potane? We will not talk about Avatar on this podcast, thank you very much. Unless it's Aang. Material. Does Golden Age Green Lantern's ring have no effect on now forgot a preposition? On what material?

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Oh shit, yeah. I was thinking that obviously, Green Lantern doesn't work on gold, but not necessarily the the the material, but the color. Yellow, yes. Yes. But that is silver in modern age. Although I don't think it's a little bit more than. Yeah. Off the top of my head, I don't know if I know this, but I am going to go with lead.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

That's a good guess, actually. I think you're you might be confusing that with two different DC characters when it comes to lead. First of all, Superman, who cannot see through lead with his X-ray vision, and Mon L, the Daxamite, to whom lead is like kryptonite to Kryptonians. And also to human beings. Because lead is poisonous. This superhero's weakness is asbestos.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

His superpowers don't work against dubonic plague.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Being injected with Epsy. Like, no, it's it's wood. I knew that. I knew you knew it. I knew you knew it. Alan Scott, his ring, which is magic-based and not based on the actual lantern core, is completely ineffectual when in contact with wood. Which is I mean, I guess nowadays, you know. Yeah.

X‑Men Origins, Externals, And Phoenix Threads

SPEAKER_02 39:18

Whenever he's on a porn set, you know, it's like he's you know useless.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yeah, absolutely. That's what cut his career short.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

All of these erect penises coming right at him, and he he couldn't do anything to stop it. I'm a fluffer as far as these questions and answers come, so.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Oh man. Alan Wood, the I mean Alan Wood, Jesus Christ. That would be his porname. That'd be his forname. The John Holmes of Green The Green Lantern Core. That question, of course, came from Vesper Tallion of Mound, Louisiana.

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Ooh, that's a good name.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Can I add a little something?

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Since we were just talking about porn and comic books, I do have to point out that canonically, there is at least one major superhero who has been involved in porn on a porn set, Superman with Big Barta. With Big Barta? Yes, yeah. That's in Oh man, what action comics was it? There was an alien kind of how would you how would you say it? Not necessarily mind control, but you know, kind of helped massage people into doing what he want. And Big Barta, who is new, massage them into doing what you want. Mr. Miracle's partner, he uh has her and Superman on a pollen set where they're shooting erotic films and pictures. Oh, is this like a Tom King thing?

SPEAKER_01 40:37

No, no, this is the 80s. I hope I never heard of this. I've read a lot of Superman back then. Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:44

Action Comics 592. Yeah, the villain Sleaze. It has implicated that they are, you know, filming an erotic feature together.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Okay. I'm gonna have to go back and review that one by myself in a dark room. That sounds like something Mojo would do or something, you know? Yes. Arcade or something. Or Mr.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

Missic. His name is Sleaze, so you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

That seems a little on the nose, doesn't it? That's that seems like an 80s Marvel character. More than it does even that. Like S-L E E Z, or like multiple Z.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah. Yeah. His nemesis is what, Adam X? You mean supposed other lost Summers Brothers?

SPEAKER_01 41:27

It's one of the first things we ever recorded was that we were done with Summers Brothers.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

But the Summers Brothers aren't done with us.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

It's like new Trek where they just keep adding new siblings to Spock, and you're like, I don't need this. Just stop, to stop it. Just keep them coming. People barely remember havoc. And then you have to do with Vulcan and another dude? Get the fuck out of here.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

It was. Yes! Adam was one of several children, generically engineered from DNA of Emperor De Ken and Catherine Summers. Technically related.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

So like a pseudo-brother. Yeah. Kind of a brother. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:59

A brother from same mother, but different father.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

From the same mother, right. Which which makes you just a brother, I think. Technically.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Cable found Adam at a farm in Iowa and asked him to meet and talk with Cyclops and Havoc in Des Moines.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Huh. Oh wow, Des Moines, wow. The bustling metropolis.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

While he was heading to Des Moines, Adam was attacked by Starjammers Hepsiba and Raza Longknife. As you are.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Because they hang out in Iowa. Yeah, they're just, you know. The Star Jammers. They're right off 80 Highway, you could. I I do appreciate you still have the Kansas City in you. That you said 80 Highway instead of though you can take the person out of Kansas City, but you can't take the Kansas City out of the person.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

It's tough. It's buried deep in there. Alright. You're gonna need some plyers.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

It should be. Get needle nose pliers in there. The Star Jammers, for people who don't know, the Star Jammers are led by Corsair, who is Cyclops' father. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

He became a space pirate.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

An ice pirate. Well, he wishes. He's no Spencer for hire, but.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

So in case you guys don't know, the Summers family.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Which they don't, supposedly, that's why we're telling them.

SPEAKER_02 43:05

Yeah. The Summers family, which is Scott and his brother, Alex, who are Cyclops and Havoc, they are flying in a plane with their mother and father, because he's a pilot, I think. And then aliens attack the the plane and it it blows up. And Alex and Scott are falling to the ground, but that at shock and terror, it triggers at least Cyclops' mutant powers to activate, and he is able to save them from their deaths. They go on to becoming mutants and blah blah blah. Well, they were always mutants, but well, yes, yeah, but their mutant powers are activated and they they go to become ex-people with Professor X and you know the gifted school and blah blah blah. But the parents, who they thought were dead, they were kidnapped, taken to space, taken across the galaxy to a far-off planet, and I Believe that the emperor, like, took the mother to like be his wife or something of the sort? Concubine? Yeah, I mean again, I'm not looking this up. This just what I kind of remember. And the father comes a space pirate. He knows he has a spaceship, so could he go back and find his long-lost children? He could. But I guess he thinks they're dead because he just decides I'm gonna just do space pirate stuff instead.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

As you do. It's the oldest story, really. Do you think that James Gunn stole some of this for Star Wars?

SPEAKER_02 44:39

I mean, the similarities are definitely there.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

The Storlord that you see in in the MCU is not the Storlord from the comics. So I wonder if he just kinda like stole some of that. Or maybe he came out with a whole cloth. I'm not really sure. But I mean, there's a lot there.

Eternals Name Game And Deep Cuts

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Oh my god. Alright, so I after I said that, I was like, ah, I should look to make sure that I remember this stuff right. And of course, of course. Catherine Summers, Catherine and Summers, because we definitely need her middle name. Shut the fuck up, Marvel people.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Just because you're Summers or a serial killer.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

So obviously they were kidnapped. Both Catherine and Chris, who's Corsair, were kidnapped. The two were separated, but Chris managed to escape and look for Catherine while slaughtering any guards in his way. I don't know how he did that, but whatever. Chris found that Catherine had forcibly been made part of Emperor Deken's harem and was in the middle of being sexually assaulted by Deken. Wanting Chris to suffer for actions against his authority, Deken killed Catherine in front of a helpless Christopher. Unknown to Catherine or her husband at the time, she was pregnant. Emperor Deken ripped the baby from her in front of Chris, and unknown to Chris, incubated and matured the infant into adulthood and sold it into slavery. The child later grew to kill Deken and become Emperor of the Shiar Empire. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

I mean, that's the kind of family programming you see on Disney.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Oh, sometimes Marvel Comics, I'm like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 46:11

You know, this is the Marvel I missed though. The crazy shit. The like really adult shit.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

It's like what, like Miss Marvel being sexually assaulted and then the child growing up to then go back in time and sexually assault his mother?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Well, that just sounds more like Greek shit right there, but um I'm thinking more like it's it's crazy that that Corsair story happens, and that's during the Comics Code Authority.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

Good stuff. That was funny. During the Comics Code Authority era, you were never allowed to criticize capitalism or promote even like, you know, like labor rights or like collective bargaining or whatever, but you can do a thing where the guy rapes a woman and then cuts the baby out of her belly, and that's totally cool. That's all we know kosher. At least we know where their priorities are. We call that classic X-Men. Most of which was drawn by John Byrne.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Let's see who who did that episode, that issue, that particular one. Why don't you Yeah, because I definitely don't want to know who did the comic, assholes.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Marvel. That's also classic Marvel, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 47:24

Who knows? Who knows who did it? I'm pretty sure that it was defin Oh, here we go. Yep, John Byrne and Chris Claremont. Yep. Nailed it! Yeah. Alright, I have one more question.

Luck Powers: Longshot Vs. Domino

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Another question from the audience. Since this is in the same vein, this comes from Alon Thalaros. I like that my Lon Grove, California.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Sorry, I like that my knowledge of Superman pornography and Cyclops Mother of Rape at least should help me in my my nerd cred as opposed to like getting a couple questions wrong.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Oh no, it definitely does. I guess that's where we are. This question comes from Alon Thalaros of Lemon Grove, California. A place that you and I have actually visited.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

I wasn't paying attention, but go ahead and do what you said.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Which part were you not paying attention to?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Let's wing it. Just say what you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Who comprised the original team of the X-Men?

SPEAKER_02 48:20

I think canonically, the original team of the X-Men is also the original team of the X-Factor when they wanted to go back to their roots and let the other later X-Men star and do their own thing. This is, of course, Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Iceman, Angel, and Beast. 100%. Now again Beast who then later would become an Avenger. Yes. Yes. Well, Beast, Cyclops, hmm. I don't think the other two became an Avenger that I can think of.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Oh, did Cyclops eventually become an Avenger?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

I think Cyclops became an Avenger.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

Well, I'm talking about like through at least through the 70s, 80s, and 90s, Beast was the only one that became an Avenger, because he was in the West Coast Avengers. Well, I didn't think he was actually in. No, no, he was in West Coast Avengers, yeah.

Who Shot First And Death Star Vs. Borg Cube

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Well, oh man, the things that have happened to all of those two, I mean, Angel became Archangel when you have his wings torn off and replaced by apocalypse and had his skin turned blue because he was a horseman of the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

One of the great X-Men arcs, the uh the Chris Claremont. That was Claremont, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because it was Jim Lee. It was like Jim Lee had taken over for John Byrne. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Yeah, yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which then flowed into X-Factor, obviously. With other cool stories with Apocalypse and an Archangel.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

X-Factor, I think, preceded a lot of the Jim Lee stuff, right? Yes. X Factor. It would have to.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

I mean, that was like late 80s for X-Factor.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Right. Because Jim Lee brought the original X-Men back. That was kind of the thing.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

I'm trying to remember when that Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

They had switched over to the X-Factor because X-Men was the supplement team that appeared in Giant Size of X-Men number one.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Well, I mean at that point they brought them all back together. So X-Factor people went back to X-Men. Because that's like 91. So X-Factor had been going on a while before then. But it was like Uncanny, it was like Wolverine and Storm and Well, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Is that X-Factor, X-Factor came out pretty early. The mainstream X-Men tea was the supplicant X-Men characters. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah. X-Factor, yeah. Angel didn't become Archangel for a while, but I believe that did happen in the 90s.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Did it happen in X-Factor?

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Yeah, I think it was the late 80s. Because Archangel comes back in 88 and X-Factor 24. Oh wow. That's the first appearance of Archangel. Yeah. That's at least two members of the original X-Men team became blue, as you do. Two of the original X-Men team become containers for the Phoenix Force. Obviously, Marvel Girl who's Gene Grey, she becomes the Phoenix. Die Reborn, Die Reborn happens all the time. Throne Goblin Queen a bit there in the late 80s and 90s. Yep, yep. Yep, with Madeline Pryor. Madeline Pryor, blah blah blah. But in like around 2010, maybe the Phoenix Force is split up into multiple people with like Namor and Cyclops and other people having the Phoenix Force as part of it. So two of them become Phoenix Force. Really the uh the only one that didn't have like major weird stuff happen, other than maybe a change in his sexuality, is Iceman. Other than he was like a snowman in the original, but became iced mostly. I mean, his story gets a little complicated, but never too complicated. Not as not as complicated as the other four. He kind of walks the straight and arrow as the other ones lose their mind or become space gods or techno become future assassins or try to take over all of mutantom as Beast does, and later, you know, all kinds of stuff. But it it is debatable whether they're the only team or even the first team. Yeah, yeah, Dark Beast, and then later, just a few years ago, during the Krikoan era, Beast kind of he kind of goes a little dark beasty, and they have to like go back to a previous incarnation of Beast to take care of that beast. This is in the X-4 series. It's complicated.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Wait, Jake, hold on a second. You're telling me right now that X-Men continuity is complicated?

SPEAKER_02 52:39

I know it's gonna come as a surprise to all of you, but yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

Does the Pope shit in the woods? I haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

I believe that he did.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

I have heard tell from on high.

SPEAKER_02 52:49

But if they were depending on which retcon we go with, there's also the possibility that Cyclops' brother, the one that was ripped out by De Ken, this is Vulcan, okay, that he had his own X-Men team that might have been concurrent with the original X-Men team, or slightly before or slightly after, either way. He had his own team that went to save that X-Men team on Perkoa during one of their early missions. This also led to the uh the formation of quote-unquote new X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

But I believe that team had Not the new, not the official quote new X-Men, not the Grant Morrison new X-Men.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

No, like the giant-sized X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Giant-sized, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Yes, which was a new X-Men team.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Sunspot, or I'm sorry, or is it Sunfire? Sunfire. Sunfire. Yes, Sunspot is a new mute. Yeah. You're right. Colossus Banshee? Yes. Did you say Nightcrawler? And then Nightcrawler, and then Thunderbird?

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

Thunderbird, I'm pretty sure. Because he dies, like Yeah. And then his brother got it shows up in X-Force.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

That was. Oh man, which uh a Proud Star?

SPEAKER_02 54:15

And then his brother, I think James Proudstar.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

Wasn't the first appearance of Cable, like New Mutants 98? Correct. Ding ding ding. Yep. God, how do we still remember these things?

SPEAKER_02 54:29

I believe that was also the first appearance of Deadpool. I think that is true. And in fact, I think it was Domino, Deadpool, and Cable. All appeared in 98. And maybe one of the eternals. Gideon, I think maybe? But I don't know or care. Was Gideon an eternal? No, Gideon's not an eternal. No, not an external. No, an external? What are like those immortal mutants? Aren't they the externals? Definitely not an eternal. Yeah, an external. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Oh yeah. Yeah. One of those ones that, like, why did Apocalypse not approach them? Well, because Apocalypse always preys on the weak. That's his entire thing.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

Technically, he is an external. No, not uh adjacent to space gods. No, this is uh completely different. A whole nother wild concept.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

The funny thing is, you and I know so much about comic books, I would be really hard-pressed to name five eternals. And I have seen the movie, I have read the comics. I could maybe name a handful of them.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

Okay, alright. Maybe we do it together. Alright. You want to do this?

unknown 55:33

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 55:34

Oh, okay. Five five eternals, okay. Alright. Do you want me to know Gilgamesh? Alright. Gilgamesh, yep. Ajax.

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Urcy?

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Yes. I can't remember their name. Icarus, there we go. Icarus. Yes. Okay, that's four. Can we name a fifth eternal?

SPEAKER_01 55:51

This is so sad. Shh. Dina? Yeah, the Angelina Jolie character. Correct? Yeah? I think she's in that movie for five minutes. That's five. That's five eternals.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

As long as those are all eternals.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

Okay. I pretty hope I pray to God they are, because otherwise we are so fucking lame.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Come on. God. I will say I could only name off the top of my head two externals.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Oh, I couldn't. I I didn't even remember Gideon beating an external, so uh you've got me beat way more on that one.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

So there's there's Gideon, which I knew, and Cruel, K-R-U-L-E, who is also one. Wow. I believe he was like purple skinned or whatever. The other ones are Absalom, Burke, Kandra, Nicodemus, Saul. Nicodemus? Supposedly Celine and Apocalypse is what they say. And possibly Cannonball?

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Cannonball is immortal, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:54

So each external was claimed to represent an intangible concept. So like Absalom was despair and Burke was fortitude, and Gideon was opportunity, and Apocalypse was evolution. But I don't know if Cannonball. This is stupid. Do you have another question for us?

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Yeah, I have a couple more. This is kind of stupid rabbit-hole shit we go down every single time. That I usually cut out. Okay, let's simplify this. Who would win in a fight between Longshot and Domino? They both have luck powers. Can we throw can we make it a three-away with Black Cat? No. Oh, okay. Alright. I'm gonna- So the answer is Black Cat. Black Cat's not a mutant, right? No, I don't remember how she got her luck powers. Yeah, I don't think she's a mutant at all. Because remember, DC and Marvel wanted to swap her in Catwoman.

SPEAKER_02 57:43

Well, she says uh possesses mutant-like ability, a form of probability and manipulation, or typokinesis.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

Doesn't mean anything. Mutant-like ability isn't the same thing as mutant ability. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 57:58

I don't okay. Initiated by quantum science-based or mystical or supernatural means, she is subconsciously generates fields of probability that cause opponents to experience accidents, failures, and mishaps.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

So so the answer to the question is Black Cat. Okay. Good enough. I mean, and that's before we decided what chaos magic was, or whatever. Even though there is no such thing as chaos magic, according to Doctor Strange. Yeah, we've got that one all nailed down. I have two more and then we're gonna quit it.

Closing Bits, CTA, And Thundarr Outro

SPEAKER_02 58:29

Officially, who shot first? Really? Really? Who shot first? Officially? Yeah. Fuck that.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

I don't care what official is. Okay? That's because the answer is Lee Harvey Oswald. I'm sorry. So moving on.

SPEAKER_02 58:47

Could was he the Greedo on the Gregzi Knoll?

SPEAKER_01 58:52

No, no, he was the book repository. Of most I'm not sure. Oh, what a hype of scum and villain. It sure was. Okay, the CIA. Could the Death Star beat a Borg Cube? Now Right?

SPEAKER_02 59:08

The way this is the way this is set up is it is vehicle versus vehicle in a way. I mean one is a vehicle, one doesn't one technically moves, but isn't like really meant to move like a vehicle. It kind of slowly it does move. It does. But I also wouldn't call it a vehicle. You know what I mean? Sure. Sure. As long as the other one is meant to travel through space.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Now, if we were to like fight at a distance, then Well, how great a distance. And you know what? I'm not even gonna bring Starkiller base up in in this, because that's I just I'm not going to. Oh, you're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

I mean, obviously, I think if they were actually to come into contact with each other, you know, the Death Star would easily be overtaken by the Borg. Rarely do they fire at a ship, they are meant to take over said ship and make it their own. That's what Borg do. That's their whole ethos. So they would transport all the ship to the thing and take over the s take over the Death Star.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:09

It'd be a Borg Star. In the first appearance of the Borg, they do use that laser thing to carve into the engineering, the secondary hull of the Enterprise, to try and disable it. So you'd figure they try that first.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

I mean, the Borg would win.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:22

If the Borg were stuck in space, maybe the Death Star's firepower might outdo it, but their complement of guards, their complement of TIE fighters and TIE Bombers and TIE Interceptors, all of their fleet could not stack up against the Borg Cube. That's not even taking to a into a uh, you know, that they would match the shielding and the weaponry that they always do against any opponent, or that they would take over their personnel, turning them into Borg, or that the Borg Cube could just move. It would stay out of the firing range or the firing line of the Death Star. So I think this one's pretty lopsided if we're really thinking about it. Now I think if the Borg Cube is stuck and at a distance and in direct line of sight of the Death Star, maybe it could get blasted away with one big shot before it can you know recalibrate its shielding or whatnot. But Borg Cube wins, hands down.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

One is essentially a base, like DS9, and the other is uh a ship. Yeah, I think that is probably the consensus. But the reason I asked it was because they're both massive, and I do think if certain, like you said, like certain conditions existed. I think the deaths are I think their their their kyber crystal powered enormous laser would probably carve a fucking hole straight through a borg's ship, even with their shielding. I think it's I think it's probably that powerful. But it would take, I don't know, 20 minutes for it to turn around, target it.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Right. Like the borghe that it would work in the water, you know? Yeah, it would already have to have been defeated for them essentially. Now, I mean this gets into the what wins in in sci-fi land, or sci-fi fantasy land, as it were. A lightsaber versus a Star Trek shield.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

Would it repel it? Right, I'd score a great question. Yeah, obviously we're dealing with different, you know, criteria because one is fantasy, so they don't really give you real, you know, science-based like things to go off of or whatever. They it's just like the question that I always had, like, could data wield the force?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:32

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:33

That depends on if you believe in metacloriens or not. If you don't, then obviously not. If you do Well, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

If you do believe in Metaclorians, if you do believe in Metaclorans, then I think he's out. If you believe in the force being a kind of a spiritual, you know, metaphysical thing, wouldn't it take Data's sentience and will to be at least capable? I don't think it takes biology, but I don't know. Maybe it does take biology. Could droids wield the force? I don't know. I mean, in in Star Trek, I mean in Star Wars, obviously they do not give droids much to work with. The ability to do I mean we've already talked in previous episodes about their second-class citizenry, their slavery and whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

I mean, oh I mean so in my in my fan fiction imaginary thing that I came up with like years and years ago, I think based on a conversation we had long before this show ever existed, after first contact when Data is in control of this emotion chip, he's able to do all the things that humans can do, but he gets corrupted by the Borg Queen pretty easily. Could the Emperor turn into the dark side? And if so, would he be able to wield the force and become a Sith Lord? Like Lord Lore or whatever. Would he be or even lore, would lore be able to do it? How about that? That might be easier. Would lore be able to wield the dark side of the force? And then would Data be able to wield the Force? It's a fascinating question. Unfortunately, there's literally no way to answer it because one's sci-fi and one's fantasy. So it's fun to speculate, but there are no answers here. Sorry guys. I would think that, just like you, I grew up, you know, around the same time. We don't believe in Metaclorians. So I would like to think that Data would be able to wield the force under the right conditions, or anybody from the Star Trek universe would be able to wield the force. I think Data would be the most likely one to be turned to the dark side because of his trying to- I mean, you've watched a lot of TNG recently, like his whole thing about, like, even in generations, you know, like being confused by emotions, and then the whole thing in first contact, the whole being corrupted by the Boar Queen and all that, I feel like that just like screams, you know, Lord Palpatine type shit. So, like. Well, the answer is what era of each are you into? If you're into New Trek, and do you love the the prequels? Then no. Are you a fan of the original trilogy and most of Star Trek lore? Then maybe. But we'll never know.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

Love the question. We'll never I could beat Sonny Chiba if he was unconscious. I'd like to see. Nah, I'd probably still lose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:25

Happy anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

That's our thing. This is what we do.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

This is how we do this.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

This is the freestyling freewheeling anniversary episode. Hell yeah. Yeah. Oh boy, this is gonna be fun to edit. Yeah. Uh maybe anniversary episodes? Who says you have to have just one anniversary episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:44

I think the definition of it, but yeah, sure, whatever. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Hey, we don't play by anybody's rule book, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yeah, we sure don't. Inside the system. It's the first geek libertarian podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:56

No, let's not do that then.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:58

Woke up on third and thought it hit a cripple.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Well, we hope that you have all enjoyed. Please come back and see if we can get to our next big anniversary episode. Perhaps, I don't know, 341. Who knows? Who knows what it'll be next time? But until then, if you wouldn't mind like, sharing, and subscribing, please rate us five Jedi Datas on the podcast app of your choice. Ideally, Apple Podcasts. Best way to get us heard and seen, we'd greatly appreciate it. Again, we'd like to thank you for coming on this journey with us. Having a good time. And we hope you come back next time. We're doing whatever the fuck we feel like, because that's what we do in this pod. But until you have some bad luck of your own running up against Black Cat in a dark alley. Ooh. Sounds like my bit of trouble. Skip, what should they do?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Sounds like you might get lucky there. I would like I would like everyone, first of all, to consider the idea that Wharf would be a Jedi, but a lot of other clans would be Sith. Also, please make sure that you have cleaned up after yourselves to some sort of reasonable degree. Make sure you've paid your tabs, tipped your bartenders, your KJs, podcasters. Because Lord knows we could use it. And then make sure you support your local comic shops and retailers. For our anniversary, our episode 159th. Episode we would like to say, no matter where you go, there you are. Thank you, and good night.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

In the year 1994, from out of space comes a runaway planet hurtling between Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction. Human civilization is cast in ruin. Two thousand years. Earth is recivilized with a strange new world rises from the old. A world of savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man burst his bonds to fight for justice. With his companions Ukla the Mach and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sun Sword against the forces of evil. He is Thundar the Barbarian.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:12

Please go away.