Classic: Highlander - Immortal Crime Unit

The Highlander remake is officially moving from rumor to reality, which means it’s time to revisit the series on one of our earliest explainers. We go deep on the franchise’s core mythology of immortals who can’t die unless they’re beheaded, who are pulled toward the Gathering, and who chase the mysterious Prize even when the canon can’t decide what the Prize really is. If you’ve ever argued about continuity, retcons, or “how does that even work,” you’re in the right place.

Transcript

Why Highlander Is Back

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey everybody, Skip here. One half, of course, of Dispatch Ajax, in light of the recent unveiling of footage from the Highlander remake. Yes, it's happening, both unbelievable and inevitable, it seems, with Henry Cavill in the starring role as Connor McLeod. In light of this occurring, we thought it appropriate to revisit the multiple episodes Jake and I did about this particular topic, one of our great passions in geek culture for your listening pleasure. We do talk about this inevitable remake, and we do a pretty comprehensive breakdown of the genre. So please enjoy this recapping and reissue on our series of Highlander. I'm looking at the bright side, Molorum.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Gentlemen, let's broaden our minds. Having the proper approach.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I'm Skip Harvey. I'm Jake. You sure are. And today we are gathered. We've been gathered. There is a gathering.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

But there's only one gathering.

The Core Rules Of Immortals

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Well well, we'll talk about that. Today's topic is one of Jake and I's favorite geek culture topics, and then of course is the Highlander franchise. You'd be surprised at the hardcore fandom of Highlander, considering uh most of the movies are terrible, and it's very, very obscure. But we're here to explain exactly why that is and what that means and how we probably would fix it if they did it again, which they might, they've been saying for the last 20 years. So uh we're gonna start off with speeding bullet points. And instead of doing what I would normally do for this, which which is just like a brief uh bullet point-based summary of what we're gonna talk about, I decided to just list the rules. So in in Highlander, immortals are compelled to fight one another, accelerating their combat during a period called the gathering. And they follow these rules. Engaging in combat on holy ground is forbidden. Can't do it. But sometimes you can. Once a battle has begun, interference by an outside immortal party is not allowed. Not allowed, unless it is. Combat is limited to one-on-one, unless they don't do that. Happens all the time. Only bladed weapons can be used, which means no ranged, explosive, or projectile weapons. This one they pretty much follow the entire time. Because two. Yeah, because you could just drop a nuke on somebody and then you'd take it be over, but no, that's not how it works. And in the end, there can be only one. Unless there are more. Right, exactly. So let's begin at the beginning, shall we? Highlanders started as a film in 1986, and here's just Oh, I thought I thought it started at the dawn of time.

SPEAKER_03 3:15

From the dawn of time we came.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Well, I mean, I you know, they were always with us, and they're with us today, so I figured we're with you now.

unknown 3:25

And we are with you now.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

That's kind of assumed. Have they been moving silently down through the centuries?

SPEAKER_05 3:31

Moving silently down through the centuries. I mean, they do live uh many different lives. Living many secret lives.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

It's like they're waiting for something, like uh maybe for ICP to finally become a thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I don't even know where you're going with that one. I don't Oh, the gathering of the jungle. Oh, gathering. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Struggling to reach the time of the gathering. So, Highlander started out as a film in 1986. This is just a brief uh summary of that. Your lead protagonist is Connor McLeod, played by the Mercurial Christopher Lambert. His character is born in the Scottish Highlands in the 16th century. After resurrecting from a fatal wound, McLeod is found by a swordsman named Ramirez, who's played by Sean Connery, and he explains that they and others were born immortal. Their weakness, beheading, which um I think you can say for most of us.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Uh yeah, yeah. I mean, it's not my number one weakness, but I mean it's it's definitely up there.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

It's up there, it's like bullets.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Uh nuclear explosion. Unless I'm in a refrigerating unit and then I'm safe. Then I don't have to worry at all.

Violent Death And Immortality Logic

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, you're safe because uh there's no trauma from impact when you're blown six miles away or whatever. Uh-uh. Nope. Nope, didn't happen. And of course that thing never heated to seven billion degrees or whatever. You're inside a fridge, it's cold, Skip. Immortals wage a war behind a veil of human society, fighting each other until the last few remaining will meet at the gathering. To fight for the prize. What's the prize? Good question. Why don't you tell us? After hundreds of thousands of years of likely immortal history, all of a sudden, in 1985, the gathering is supposedly happening in New York, and McLeod must make sure the prize is not won by his oldest enemy, the Kurgan, played by the great Clancy Brown. Okay, so that's the first movie. So let's get into what these immortals are. This is actually a really good question. Because it's very, very, very confusing. So the mythology of Highlander is based on the premise of the existence of immortals in general. Now, depending on which uh iteration, which movie, which episode, they're either born or they're made. What does that entail? Okay, that's that's a fair question. You were always an immortal, no matter what, you are always an immortal, but you don't become immortal unless you die of a violent death, and then at that point your immortality kicks in, you're resurrected, and then you're that age and that person for all of eternity. Until the time of the galaxy.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

See, I get that, but what constitutes a violent death?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Because you know, if I fall off a ship and I drowned. They do kind of address that in some respects, but not very many.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

Because I was under the impression that if you died by natural causes, whatever they may be, you're not an immortal at that point. Also, apparently, if you're poisoned, even though it's by someone else's hand, it's not violent enough to become an immortal. Or like to turn your immortal button on.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

Which really doesn't make any sense because, like, in that scenario, intentionally murdering someone by poison is still violent. Yeah. Okay, so let's let's just uh let's just establish this here. They're gonna get real fast and loose with all these things. We're just gonna try to get to the basics of what water's already established, and then we can scrutinize. I'm sorry, teacher.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

I should have raised my hand.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

So without a violent death, of course, yes, an immortal will just die of old age or whatever. And no immortal, latent or active, can reproduce. They they can't have children. That's actually a fundamental thing that they never, well, mostly never vary from. Okay, so should an immortal become separated from their head, there's a release of energy called the quickening, and it infuses the nearby immortal. And I always assumed that it meant that it it was gifted upon the immortal that that killed the other immortal. That that's just a product of the fact that it's supposed to be one-on-one fighting, and that anybody nearby, if you're close enough, you will absorb the quickening, which is the quote-unquote power of the immortal that you've killed.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

But sometimes it seems to be life essence as well, you know, like the personality aspects, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

And then there's a dark quickening where like the person you've killed is like a tainted soul or whatever, and and then it kind of like it's like the red kryptonite of of quickening. It's the red quickening. This is the best way we can make sense of it.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Well, that's probably the problem. We're trying to make sense of it, all of this, and it's not meant to.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Well, I mean, but it kind of was. They tried. Like the like that's the thing is they they tried to make sense of it. That's what the series was.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

The series, yes. The movies, no.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Except in Endgame when they both simultaneously try and make sense of it and introduce the continuity they've they've created in the series, the canon they've created in the series, and also completely contradict it at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Um Well, you can't you can't bake a cake without breaking a few Highlander rules.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

That's that's true. That is very true. Just ask Michael Ironsides. So by well, we'll we'll we'll get into the Michael Ironside's rules of uh of character villainy, because there is there I think there's an unspoken rule in Hollywood where if Michael Sire Michael Ironsides is in a movie, he has to lose a limb, and it just happens to be ahead in Highlander 2. So for his career, there are more movies where he loses a limb than not. Think about it. I'm thinking. I'm thinking. Scanners, Highlander, uh, Starship Troopers. What limb does he lose in scanners? Does his head blow up?

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Oh, well, are we counting that? I mean, alright, okay. Okay, okay. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, yeah, he loses both arms as Richter in total recall. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

We all gotta have something. Last immortal survivor inherits the totality of all quickenings, which is called the prize. What's the prize? Who knows? When there are only a few immortals left, they will feel drawn, compelled to go to a faraway land where they will fight to the last. If an immortal is beheaded and there is no other immortal nearby to absorb the quickening, the quickening just dissipates into the ether.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

It not doesn't get like doled out to everybody, just like a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Nope. You know, like Nope, it just it it just they just disappear. It's over. I think that's canon set up by the series, if I remember right.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

It's too bad. Everyone should get like a three cent check worth of quickening in the mail.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Thanks, Bernie Sanders.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

I want you to have this quickening. All Highlanders deserve medical care. Uh okay, so I am a Highlander, and I shouldn't have to pay for these things. We should all be paying. Have you been workshopping this? No, it just comes.

Quickening Healing And Edge Cases

SPEAKER_01 10:36

So let's get into Okay, so this is very confusing because it deals with both continuity setup by Highlander 2 and the series. Um and is completely inconsistent. No, it's not a big deal, but the supposedly supposedly the quickening can repair almost all damage to the body without scarring or permanent impairment, except it can't regenerate lost limbs. But it can regenerate organs. Now, the only exception that I've found is in the first one when Kurgan has that giant scar on his throat because he almost got decapitated by Ramirez.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Which also is the same with Callus, who also got cut in the throat, and his doesn't heal properly there either. Doesn't If you broke your neck, would it just stay broken, like scar over?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I don't know. That's a great question. I don't know, because like I I think the I well, I don't know, because more importantly, would you be paralyzed? Right? If you have a s if you have a scar from a near decapitation, would you be paralyzed by breaking your neck if it was broken by another immortal? That's a I don't know. I I don't think that's ever been addressed. We're breaking new ground here, Jay. New holy change.

SPEAKER_03 11:58

If you s if you smoke too many cigarettes as a Highlander and then they they put the the voice box in, is it because it's not gonna heal over, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Yes, it well, well, that's no, yes, it would because But it's nectrama. Right, but not not meted out by another immortal.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

What if but what if an immortal surgeon? Oh but what if if you're a pre-immortal and you do surgery on an immortal, does that count?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Or do you have to like switch over, do you have to flip your immortal switch before any damage you do counts?

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Well, that depends if on if during that surgery you die of what would be considered a violent death. So so for instance, if you are that doctor from the podcast Dr. Death, you know, that real old doctor that yeah, if you're that guy and you paralyze a guy and you're immortal and you don't know it, and he's immortal and he doesn't know it, what happens then? And what if and what if some of the people he did end up killing, what would what would happen to them? Because he's a pre-immortal.

SPEAKER_03 13:02

Oh man also defends, I mean, is it is it violent enough? Like if he just is like like say a lethal injection, apparently that's not violent enough by the the immortal, you know, scorecard keepers.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

I feel like that should be like if you're gonna make those rules, you have to like you have to take into account intent, right? And if you can't take into account intent, uh negligence is is negligence while dealing with you know these kind of sensitive operations, wouldn't you consider that violence? You know, like if if if you're acting in bad faith, what's the murder two for immortals? What's the murder two, murder three for immortals? I'm not really sure. How does that fit in? Is there a uh a mediator that that figures this out?

SPEAKER_03 13:45

Is there well okay if we're I just I just saw Highlander 2, and if we're gonna count that, I mean I've seen it multiple times before this, but I just happen to watch it today because I'm a sick and twisted individual.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yes, yes, true.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

So Connor kicks a bird dude off of a train. Right. Uh or I think the bird dude just falls off the train, but then he falls under the train, the train track, and his head gets severed. But that counts as a quickening. But it wasn't by Connor's Wasn't by a blade. It wasn't by a blade. And it wasn't I I think that would be a murder too. Yeah. You know, or possibly even manslaughter. I mean, depending on the the defense attorney. Immortal manslaughter. You know, the immortal defense attorney, you might be able to plead that down just to a to a manslaughter. Immortal manslaughter.

Holy Ground And What Counts

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Man, I wish they would do like a true blood like show where everyone suddenly knows immortals are real, and then we have like taut courtroom dramas dealing with the rules of Law and Order ICU, Immortal Crime Unit? No. Oh man. No, because that just makes it sound like they're they're also doubling as as uh ER doctors. They can do that too. They're immortals, they can do anything. Well, especially if they have the prize, apparently. Okay, so so that we can explain this to people. Let's get to the actual rules. These are the rules. All right, all right. Okay. The rules, as laid down by basically every every version of Highlander, no matter what, though they all in some way contradict themselves. It forbids immortals from fighting on holy ground. And holy ground is kind of a nebulous thing, but it's never really challenged much in the show. In fact, or the franchise in general. In fact, they in one instance they go out of their way to like sort of help um define that through a plot device. So a holy ground is kind of defined as basically anything that's sacred to a large number of people. So that includes, you know, like churches or chapels or cemeteries, monasteries, temples, mosques.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

There's a it does, but then do we get into the uh you know the government rules of what constitutes a religious organization or not? Can you go into the Scientology building and fight there?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Um, well, considering most of that is all just paperwork. Like most of the most of the Scientology buildings are just so that they can own own land and then use that to leverage for like tax breaks and stuff. But if you get those tax breaks, the government counts you as a religious organization. Right, right. But doesn't isn't it faith that's important to what makes something sacred?

SPEAKER_03 16:25

So like I suppose but how many people that does it take to have faith in something?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Is there any any single actual literal individual within Scientology that thinks that that empty office building that they're using for tax breaks is sacred? I don't think that I don't think that's the case. Tom Cruise? It's a good question. No, I don't think he even believes that. I think that he thinks that's just like the uh economic functioning of how the organization works. But it's a good question. If it deals with faith, then there are a lot of cults you can't fight on the ne the Nexium uh branding grounds, right? You can't can you not fight at Jonestown? Really, though? I mean I don't know. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:09

What about every ancient burial ground of all of these cultures and religions over thousands of years? Does something fall out of religiosity? You know, if we build a house that might have poltergeist in it, can we fight on there?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

If in the poltergeist universe, didn't they move those graves, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So which one is the holy ground?

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Their original graves? Is it their original graves? Both places, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 17:38

If that were the case, would the poltergeist be all that angry? I don't know. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 17:44

Well, I mean, the logic of why poltergeist do what poltergeist does.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

In the movie Poltergeist.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

It's all a little ethereal, one might say.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

And a little weirdly ethnocentric and all that stuff, yeah. But I mean it does raise those interesting questions. Are those Native American burial grounds outside of St. Louis, for instance, that nobody really remembers, are they considered holy land because people did believe in them? I would think so.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

I would think there's probably a vast majority of non-watercovered land that people have been buried on and are considered sacred, you know. Maybe it was 5,000 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

But does that still count?

SPEAKER_01 18:22

That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, can you fight at Graceland? I don't know. Well, you could. Well, they do have a, according to the song Walking in Memphis, there is a spirit that guides you through the gates of Graceland. So I figured it is at least in some way holy ground. But I mean, what do I know? I've only been there once, and it's basically just a gift shop on a tarmac for an airport. So you got a keychain, baby. But they are taking care of business. So keep that in mind. Okay, so all right, so the interpretation of this holy ground thing, like uh it changed as the series progressed. I mean, series of movies and the TV series both. While it's usually taken to forbid all forms of combat, in an episode of the series called The Road Not Taken, an immortal called, Akeem's son challenged Duncan to a friendly sparring match, interpreting this rule as forbidding them from doing actual harm to each other, rather than a flat ban on just fighting in general. Duncan agreed, and then they fought, and then nothing happened, and it was fine. So in in Highlander, Ramirez tells Connor, not Duncan, tells Connor that That's a dip I do that all the time. I do it too, I do it too, because they they they intended they did that on purpose, and I know they did. Uh Highlander, the movie stated that uh the Holy Ground rule was like an unspoken tradition, or well, just a spoken tradition. Um But Highlander did the Highlander 2, the Quickening, the original version, called it the Golden Rule, uh, which made it seem like the prime directive in Star Trek. Like this is the one thing you don't break. And in the series episode, The Hunters, Duncan says, quote, even the most evil of us wouldn't desecrate holy ground. At least until Until they do. Right. Uh and then in the episode Unholy Alliance in 1980, James Horton was threatened by Duncan McLeod uh in the Dawson family crypt and said, quote, Holy ground, McLeod, shame on you. You're forgetting the rules. I tried to get Xavier St. Cloud to come out, but even he wouldn't kill here. Was that Dawson's Crypt or Dawson's Creek? Are they are they different?

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Pacey's immortal in my in my heart.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Yeah, the WB and the CW merged. I mean the WB and UPN merged to create a CW. Uh uh the WB is Dawson's Crypt.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Nice.

Highlander 1 Story Breakdown

SPEAKER_01 21:00

So in so in the episode uh Little Tin God, the Watcher, we'll explain the watchers here in a second, Joe mentioned that according to legend, the rule was broken once, ACE uh 79, and a duel in a temple resulted in the destruction of Pompeii. And in Highlander 3, the Final Dimension, or the Sorcerer, depending on where you were when it was released, uh, during the fight in a Buddhist shrine between Connor and the antagonist, Kane, played by Mario Van Peebles, Connor's blade shattered and the power of the shrine was then sort of revealed to everyone. So there's divine intervention sometimes. Uh, in fact, even later in the anime movie, which is not bad, mind you, it's actually one of the better things they've done. Highlander, the search for vengeance, Colin McLeod was struck by lightning, not quickening lightning, but regularly. Lightning for refusing to put down his sword inside Stonehenge. So I know. So they're all over the place with this. Every time they create a new iteration, they try, it really does seem like they try and streamline what this is and what the rules are. But they also end up, you know, inevitably contradicting themselves. But that's mostly for like whatever corner they've already painted themselves in uh narratively.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

I mean, that's what Endgame's all about. You know, it's it's about, you know, like, well, this is a thing we can't do. Well, we're gonna do it. This isn't your grandma's Highlander.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Right, right. But I have theories about why. I mean, like, obviously vague theories, because like the original cut of Highlander Endgame, which is the fourth movie, the movie that ties the TV show and the movies together finally, in that movie, they break all the rules, but intentionally as a plot point to say, like, this guy is the only guy who can do this, he and his disciples. It's a it's supposed to be different. He's the one that's supposed to break the rules, like you said. Um, oh, we're taking it up a notch. This guy can break the rules, and he drinks a surge and jumps on a skateboard. But it's like okay, well, I guess we can break down the first movie quickly. So Connor McLeod was born in Glenfinnan, Scotland, near the shores of Loch Shield in the Scottish Highlands in 1536. He fought alongside his clan against the Frasier clan. I'm guessing that means uh the Frasier Crane clan uh from the TV show Fraser and Cheers. Uh the Frasers were aided by makes sense why they lost. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 23:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Oh, maybe it's Frasier Kane and it ties into Highlander 3. No, we're just getting too far down the rabbit hole. Okay, so the Frasiers were added by uh added. The Frasers were aided by an outlander named the Kurgan, who was said to be the last of the Kurgan tribe. And he came from, I think, what would be considered modern day Russia.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

I mean, they they say what the the the steps of Russia and this aid was in exchange for his right to slay the immortal that he can sense lives within the clan of cloud. And so during battle, Kurgan gets closer to Connor and realizes he's the immortal, and then he stabs him, trying to take off his head, but he's defeated and driven away before he can actually kill him, which of course makes him immortal. Much to Connor's surprise, he makes a complete recovery and then just like gets up and walks back home. And his lover, Kate, and his cousin Dougal accuse him of witchcraft. He's in league with Lucifer. And the clan wishes to kill him, they want to burn him at the stake, but one of his other cousins, the chieftain named Angus, says, just just go walk away. And so he does, and he just kind of like lives in the highlands by himself. You know, he kind of wanders around the renegade or the incredible Hulk. Actually, that sounded like the end of family ties more than it's in.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

He also did that.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

You did you didn't pay attention, but I was born in the Highlands of Scotland over 400 years ago, but I'm still alive.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Shannon and now.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

He's living in laughter and love, you see. Which is true, actually, because you take the next thing that happens in the movie, it's just a montage of him living in laughter and love with a woman that he married named Heather McDonald. A boniless. He's living the life, he's just like hanging out. He's uh he's a cool dude. He kind of does some uh blacksmithing, uh, but that's mostly out of necessity or whatever, and they they have sheep and whatnot, whatever you did in the Highlands in the 16th century.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

Then he runs across a man named Juan Sanchez Villalobos Ramirez, chief metallurgist of King Charles V of Spain, and I'm at your service.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

A swordsman from Spain, if you hadn't picked that up, a Spaniard. Never trust the Spaniard. Yeah, but he's actually Egyptian. He's Egyptian, he's an ancient Egyptian who's from Spain, played by a Scottish man. I mean, hey, all of this tracks, man.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

Supposedly, just a little side note, he apparently spent time like working on his Spanish accent for this. With like uh with uh like a linguist and everything, and it's like I I can't believe that. You you must have just been smoking cigars and eating caviar on the clock. No, he was.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

He famously was doing stuff like that. So was he trying to bang the linguist?

SPEAKER_03 26:29

I'm sure they made him hire the the prettiest linguist around.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Oh my god, because none of that happens. Like he doesn't even try that accent, like not he doesn't even like fake it. Oh no, not at all. There's nothing there. But like it's not even like they gave him eyeliner. That's how you can tell he's Egyptian. Seriously.

SPEAKER_03 26:49

And a peacock plume. That's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

And he's the one going looking for the Scottish guy who's played by a Frenchman.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Who also, uh, when they cast him, apparently couldn't speak English.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Didn't speak a lick of English. I have a good quote about this from the director about this. Yes. Okay. His big point of emphasis is that the Kurgan cannot win the prize. Humanity will suffer an eternity of darkness. He trains, they have a training montage, they have a bunch of voiceovers, they have that weird scene where Connor goes underwater and then drowns and dies but is resurrected, but then just sits there and can somehow breathe underwater.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

Yeah, so that rule doesn't follow along ever again, as does the uh the stag scene, where like they tap on the power of a deer nearby to run fast.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Which is literally almost shot for shot the scene in Rocky III. Yeah. Yeah. Where Apollo Creed is training Rocky. Uh-huh. I wish that you could just put that voiceover over that scene. It'd actually be a better movie.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

It'd be great if they were running and they just happened to be on the same beach at the same time. Oh, that would be good.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

So they become friends, which apparently happened in real life, too.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Apparently, close enough that that is the reason that uh Connery comes back for the sequel in two, because uh Lambert was like, I want him back. Let's bring him back. Doesn't matter how, let's let's just put him in the film.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Let's just do it. It's gonna happen. I won't come back otherwise. Like, he had a lot of like clout. I don't know. Considering how they could just recast him with his cousin in the series. I don't feel like you have a lot of pull in this sense, but whatever. Well, maybe at the time. Uh yeah. Well, they didn't realize he they were doing what Christopher mother fing lamb bear. Uh one night while Connor was away doing whatever, uh Kurgan found the goods. Yeah, probably. Uh he found his home and then he dueled Ramirez, which is funny because Ramirez tracked him all the way there, and then somehow like didn't realize that he was in the area.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

And Ramirez. I love that. Uh literally, every time I interact with someone whose last name is Ramirez, I just I say that to myself.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

That's exactly what you have to do. It's your inner dialogue the entire time. And Queen is also constantly playing. So then Kurgan kills Ramirez and then rapes Heather, which is awful, but she never tells Connor about it. Uh and then uh Kurgan just kind of skips away. La la la la la. Yeah, that's essentially what happens. Uh, and then years later, Heather dies of old age, and then um Connor goes full Ronin or Yujimbo and then decides to wander the earth. Uh, and he takes uh Ramirez's katana as his implement of death. Uh and then uh 1985 approaches, uh, and suddenly everyone thinks it's the gathering. And the Kurgan is compelled to come to New York, where Connor now lives as an antique dealer, uh as a guy named Russell Nash, uh, working with his like best pal, maybe love interest, but also adopted daughter, Rachel Ellenson. Yeah. That's I it's weird.

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Well, he probably they probably had a dabble like when she was you know in her early 20s.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

And then he revealed he was immortal, and then he's like, I can't do this with you.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

She would have known before then, right? I mean, he doesn't age from the time that she's you know, like six until mid-80s. So that's been 40 years.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah, well, he keeps taking other people's identities and stuff. I don't know. I I always thought that was kind of a weird relationship. I mean, I mean, it ultimately ended up being, I don't know, not bad. But I mean, at first it just seems odd. Because like she knows and she kind of gets she's like money penny. She's money penny.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Yeah, yeah. Or or the um that helper and let let the let the right one in, you know. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

Yeah, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

You need someone to you know help you. Because I mean, they're they're essentially live vampire lifestyles.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

You're making it more sound like she's Renfield. I think she's more like money penny. Oh, it's she can be both. I don't know. I don't know. She's not controlled by him, but I I think, you know.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

She's not a familiar. She's the she's the closest that a Highlander gets for a familiar.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Well, yeah, I get well, I don't know. Richie. I don't know Richie might be the familiar of the story. But Richie is a pre-Highlander. He doesn't care. He's he's gonna turn into a Highlander, which would make him a familiar.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

He's promised to be made a No, no, just because you're uh Yeah, that's true. Yeah, you can be a witch's apprentice. Yeah.

Rachel And Modern Identity Questions

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Long story short, about the first movie, uh Connor ends up killing Kirk and then gains the prize. Though that's what happens? Yeah, but uh do you always you you like you always fall asleep before the end? Oh man. Oh man, you always fall asleep, and then we have to drive you home. Why you sleep in the backseat? He was so cozy. Okay, so a little bit of background on the movie, which it which is fascinating, it kind of explains a lot of stuff. So uh a guy named Greg Wyden, he wrote the script for Highlander as a class assignment when he was an undergraduate student at UCLA. For inspiration, he used Ridley Scott's 1977 movie, The Duelists, which was based on a Joseph Conrad short as an inspiration. After reading the script, his professor said, Get thee to a talent agency, and he ended up selling the script for$200,000.

unknown 32:30

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

Yeah, and it became and then this is in the mid-80s. It ended up becoming the first draft of what eventually would become the screenplay for Highlander. And Greg Wyden, by the way, would end up uh going on to write and direct The Prophecy with Christopher Walken.

SPEAKER_03 32:46

There's there's definitely some similarities there.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

They're sure as L there. No doubt about that. He's got a type. So here's some quotes about it from him. He said, the idea of the story was basically a combination of a riff on the duelists, guy wants to finish a duel over years, and a visit I made to both Scotland and the Tower of London armor display, where I thought, what if you owned all of this? What if you'd won it all throughout history and were giving someone a tour of your life through it? This is um that scene was basically in the movie, kind of. I guess, because Russell Mash was a antique stealer, I guess. I guess. I don't know. That scene in Batman 89 is actually more of a thing than that. Whatever, I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

I bought it in Japan.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

King of the Wicker people.

SPEAKER_02 33:32

So after you bruise a vein. Give Docs a grant.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

This screen We could just keep going. We could literally do that all day. We have before. We've ruined many parties doing that. So And why?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

Because they can afford to be.

Script Origins And Early Draft Changes

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Put that away, Jake. You look like a tourist. So the script eventually eventually found its way to um Bill Panzer and uh Peter S. Davis producers who had not long since uh before produced Sam Peckenpaw's uh The Osterman weekend. Uh Davis said, quote, the script was rough, uh, but we were captivated by the idea. After a second draft from Wyden, uh Peter Bellwood and Larry Ferguson, which were patron script writers in their uh production company, they were brought in to rewrite the screenplay. Most of the key elements were already president present in Wyden's script, but they had already been elected president. The idea of the game of immortals fighting each other until one remains, uh the characters of Connor and Ramirez, the beginning to in the Highlands, and then so Whiden's script was really different. So in his initial story, it was way darker, way more violent. Connor was born in 1408 rather than in 1518. Don't know why that's important. He lived with his mother and father, there was no Heather. Connor was promised to a woman named Mara who rejected him when she learned he was immortal, which kind of follows the original movie and also the flashbacks and endgame, but only because his lover rejected him after he was outed as immortal. And in the original version, he left his village willingly. His modern name was Richard Tupin. I don't care about that at all. Uh, and he used and he still used a broadsword, which legitimately harder to to to hide under a trench coat. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Yeah, I mean, maybe if he's on stilts, maybe then it's uh maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

I mean, unless he's wearing like the duster from Renegade, I don't know that you're gonna be able to hide that very well.

SPEAKER_03 35:34

Unless you carry it around like the Kurgan does in that sweet, like uh, you know, break apart, you know, sniper gun case.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

Oh, yeah, that is kind of cool, actually. In the original draft, uh Ramirez he was a Spaniard born in 1100 instead of the Egyptian garbage they tried to like shoehorn in there. And Kurgan was just he had no name, he was just called the knight. Uh, and then he used the alias Carl William Smith.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

I don't I don't where I it I mean, maybe is this supposed to be like he's gonna try to kill the president?

SPEAKER_01 36:10

I know. Doesn't it sound more like the Thomas Crown affair than it's highlighting?

SPEAKER_03 36:15

Hi, I'm Carl. I sell insurance.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

And I fight with a sword.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

But Ramirez at one point describes immortals as, quote, nothing more than walking corpses living only to slaughter each other in an insane quest. That's a departure.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

Well, yeah, I it's a cool line. Um, I don't know really where you go from there. Yeah, I don't really know what comment you're making, but um I mean that's something that people later in the series would say, you know, as you get into the, you know, I don't want to be an immortal anymore and the melancholy of living forever, but that doesn't fit for that character.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Absolutely not. And and also the the whole like the Kurgan being um sort of an unnamed guy who is kind of normal, like he's like he went from being some crazed berserker to being some polished guy who just games the system or whatever. That's like a thousand episodes of the series. Yeah, that's like a one of their bigger tropes. So some of the other elements were that initially the immortals could have children. In fact, they said that Connor was said to have 37 children.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

All right. These aren't these aren't quite Genghis Khan numbers, but he's he's doing all right. He's he's beaten Sean Kemp out.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

And uh and Derek Thomas, not Thomas Jefferson. And in an early version, his wife, uh, who's in her 70s and his two sons who are in their mid-50s saw him revealed as an immortal because he went to the funeral of one of his kids and looked fine, even though they thought he was dead.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah, I don't see how you could fit that in there. I mean, I get what you were you're trying to do there, but I don't really see how you can fit that in there.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

None of this, yeah. This isn't working.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

No, it's not. And so in this version, there's no quickening, there's no prize. Immortals can sense each other, but at the end, when Connor finally kills the knight, he just feels sharp burning pain. And then he senses another immortal nearby, implying that this is just like the beginning of the gathering and the game continues, which actually would in some ways would kind of be better than the ending we get if you if you look backward at the franchise. That would help solve some of the problems we have with the continuity of the thing, where you have to go, yes, that happened, but not that. So don't talk about that.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

Yeah, but you're also like you're making a one-off movie that then was popular, that they then made a bunch of things from. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:47

It it makes it better in retrospect, but uh yes, I understand why you couldn't really do it that way in that version. But in retrospect, it would have been better. It legitimately would have been better. Uh yeah, and he wanted Kurgan to be um he wanted Kurgan to be like tortured and evolved over time. That scene with Clancy Brown in the church is visceral and iconic and amazing, and he kills it in that scene. But like they kind of have a point in which he's just kind of two-dimensional the way that he's portrayed.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

Yeah, but I think that's one of the things that also works for that character. I mean, I think that's one of the reasons I gravitated toward him as a as a child for sure.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah, but think about it. If if if it were a worse actor, if it was not as a great an actor, would that seem work? Would that character work? I don't know that it would.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Probably not. But uh but you have Clancy Brown. Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Yeah, and he he brings it.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah, I mean it's it's again, you also already have the guy in a suit who's at the very beginning of the the film and the The French guy? Yeah, the MSG fight in the parking garage. Um you know, seeing Clancy Brown in this definite, like outsider, you know, you know, punkish bad guy from the 80s, you know, taking over that that that barbarianism from you know hundreds of years ago and bringing it to this modern day setting. I I think you need that to really make him stand out and make his particular form of villainy feel visceral, feel you know, the impending doom of of what he is and what he can do. I don't know if you get the same with you know a three-piece suit.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

I mean, I don't know, that's debatable just because um I mean, yeah, I agree with you. I think it's a that that role, the those scenes, they're so iconic and so like compelling. It's really hard to argue with, but like, I don't know, like if you were that guy hundreds of years ago, uh, but now you've evolved and you've learned to live in this society, can you be that crazy punk guy without being like a cult leader or a terrorist or you know what I mean? Like, can you just like exist in society that way?

SPEAKER_03 41:14

But I think he also, as opposed to the other, as opposed to the other Highlanders, um, because we're just gonna call him Highlanders, not immorpists.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

He's not immortals, okay, alright, okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

He obviously doesn't give a shit about other human beings. He doesn't care he he looks at them as lower. I don't see him as someone who fits in society or never has, and he doesn't care to. And I think by putting him in the 80s aesthetic of the outsider who who is the anarchist from society, I think it solidifies his ethos from those hundreds of years ago till now.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yeah, I mean, I think I mean I think you're right for the most part. Yeah, I I do. He was um he was a leader of men. He was a despot. He was uh if that's who you are fundamentally, why would you give that up?

SPEAKER_03 42:05

I think in battle he was probably a leader, but even in the battle we see him in, he's essentially a kind of a a hired gun.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yeah, only because he wants to kill Connor.

SPEAKER_03 42:15

Exactly, but I I don't necessarily think he would have cared about leading humans into battle, and he's not leading other, you know, vast swaths of immortals.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

I thought they I thought that was kind of the thing with their clan in Russia. Like they were just like marauding, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

I thought from what I had seen is that he had been all over, you know, in different skirmishes and battles throughout all of Eastern Europe and Asia. Um but I didn't s I didn't read or see him as a a leader of men, you know, a general kind of thing, just more of a a hired gun kind of just uh uh giving him a reason, an outlet to just murder wantonly.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Well, but isn't his isn't his entire motivation to win the prize to rule over mankind forever? Yeah, well, I think he I think he wants the power. He's a warlord. He just only did that with the Frasers so that he could find whichever uh you know immortal that he knew was there and then kill him, right?

SPEAKER_03 43:34

So like Well, I'm just saying I don't think do we do we know what he was doing all the time?

SPEAKER_01 43:39

No, we don't.

SPEAKER_03 43:40

And I guess that's just how I was reading into it.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

But that's one of the things about Highlanders nobody knows. They never tell us. We have to speculate constantly.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Well, it's just a big part of like our attraction.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

True. That is true. We kind of make it our own every time. So if his whole goal was to be was to win the prize and become You know, the ruler of all of Earth. I just feel like wouldn't he become Hitler or something? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 44:05

Like wouldn't it just like him like kind of jack the rip-ring more, you know?

Kurgan As A Villain

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Well, I mean, that's it, essentially what he becomes. I don't know. Yeah, uh, I I I'm I'm constantly conflicted by his character. And and not that it's bad, it's better than most characters, like it's better than some of the two-dimensional characters we get a lot later. And Clancy Brown kills it in that movie, absolutely kills it in that movie. Um, I don't know. There just there are just things about it that don't really seem to fit. Uh, but I mean, who knows how people change it over thousands of years, you know? Like it's really hard to tell.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Um, you know, I mean, uh, he's supposed to be just an evil character. I mean, yes, true. Given giving him like motivation and and three dimensions, I don't think was at least in the version that we got, wasn't the goal.

Opening Scene Debate And Directing Style

SPEAKER_01 44:56

True. Uh, I think Calinci Brown tried to give as much depth to it as he possibly could. And then taken from the uh DVD commentary of the original movie, the film's climax was originally supposed to uh take place on top of the Statue of Liberty, like in X-Men. Yeah. And then it was changed to an amusement park, and then eventually changed to the rooftop of the Silver Cup Studios building. Now the uh the opening sequence was originally intended to take place during an NHL game, but they refused because they saw uh the way it was portrayed as emphasizing the violence of the game. Which, yes, that was the point of the scene. Um yes. But it's at least interesting, I don't think that would have worked. I think it would have been better if it was a boxing match, personally. Because if it's the mid-80s, the pro wrestling thing, I don't know, it always came across as a bit silly to me. And like as a as a metaphor for what they were doing, I felt like that was a little like I don't think that really fit for me. It never settled right for me. If it were like a boxing match, yes. Or if like they were watching an underground fighting thing like in Lionheart, where they're like, you know, two dudes in a half-filled swimming pool, yes. Okay, all right. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Huh. For for me, the pref uh pro wrestling completely worked. I mean, maybe it's because I was a fan of pro wrestling and I still am. Um, but the larger than life spectacle of these uh you know, iconic good and bad characters on display fighting for supremacy and domination, um, in you know a artistic but uh um you know very theatrical manner. I thought it worked for like setting up kind of an idea of what this we're gonna get the rest of this film.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Uh yeah, I I I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. I I just feel like um in this scenario, um it kind of like dramatically changes the comment we're making. Like, is the comment we're making with professional wrestling within the narrative of the film? Is it that the theater that they're putting on uh vis-a-vis the game, is is it supposed to be taken also as um theater? Is it the pointlessness of it? None of it's real, none of it really matters in the end. Because it does matter in the end, and that's really important.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Well, again, but you're you're putting on the because it's a show that the professional wrestling who wins or loses, quote unquote, doesn't matter. That it's it's a lesser form of competition compared to say a boxing match or a lion heart, you know, street fight. Um, I think maybe that's the wrong thing to pull from that.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Right, but that's what I'm asking. Like, because like, okay, let's say it is a boxing match, for instance, or even just the NHL match or whatever. Doesn't it it feels like in that scenario, the commentary they're making is this is what human beings think is evolved violence. Like, we don't kill each other in the street anymore like we did uh back in their day. Uh, we instead we we turned it into this kind of competition where the violence still exists and it's still a very violent game, but we're expressing ourselves in a different way. And the immortals who a lot of whom still think themselves evolved and better than human beings actually participate in literal blood sports to the death. I know, I just I'm just I just think the commentary is different, and and and I mean, and that's like of all things, of all things to get bogged down to we're we're in the rules of of uh Highlander Dom and the the the plot of the first film and that one's not the one to get stuck on.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

So that's what you guys signed up for. This is why you download and you're listening for inane bull like that.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

So the producers needed a director, and they needed a director with a very specific aesthetic that fit what they were thinking, and so they got uh the Australian-born uh Russell Mulcahy, who was best known for directing most of Duran Duran's videos. They downplayed this, but he famously nearly killed Simon LeBond while filming Duran Duran's Wild Boys. Really? Yes, that's apparently a big deal. It's like a they they Simon LeBron has since come out and said that that's an Urban legend, that he was fine, but the cinematographer, the woman who was the cinematographer on the um music video, said that he nearly drowned and they had to rescue him during the shooting of that video. And if you watch, I know exactly, and if you watch it, and if you watch a lot of the other Durandrand videos he did, not all of them, but some of them, like you can see where the Kurgan aesthetic came from, where some of the grungy punk thing that they didn't really understand yet as a genre came from. And then later in 1984, it did a really schlocky uh horror movie uh about a killer hog called Razorback. And so for some reason the producers thought that would make him the perfect director for this fantasy epic. So you know, Razorbecks a lot like Hoylander, yeah, that's true. So McKay describes the casting of Christopher Lambert this way. It was basically a lack of research. Quote, we still didn't have our Highlander, and I was flicking through a magazine and saw a picture of Christopher as Tarzan from Greystoke, and I went, That's the guy. And so we cast him. And then when he was already signed up, we met him and realized he couldn't speak fing English. End of quote. And then he goes on to say, his agent assured us he'd be fine, but he could barely say, Hello, my name is Christopher. So they constantly had a language coach on set, and six weeks of post-production were spent looping every single line of his dialogue. According to Mulcahy, though, the Scots that worked on the film they turned a deaf ear to his uh accent and said, quote, they didn't care. It was a really tight bunch of people who just enjoyed the movie. It was freezing cold, they're all in kilts in the mud, drinking whiskey first thing in the morning. They were mad and wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Yeah, at least they put that line in the film of like, you know, where are you from, Nash? Like lots of places.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

You're right. I'm glad they put that in there because it does kind of like cover up a lot of ills when it comes to that. And so Mulkehy goes on to say, uh, we shot fast, Scotland, at London, and New York. The budget was just 13 million, so it was guerrilla-style filmmaking. When we were there in Glen Coe, the producer had to run down the mountain with a pocket full of change to call the studio from a telephone box. On the plane up, Sean, Sean Connery brought out a bottle of homemade scotch. A friend had given him and said, Come on, Letty, have a nip of this. It blew my brains out. God. It comes from Scott from okay. Oh man. I would totally drink his homemade scotch, though. I'll tell you that right now.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

Uh, I mean, I I thought I had hairs on my chest, but then those fing you'd end up slapping an actress in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

That's the rough. Yeah. Uh uh, and this is one of my favorite tidbits about the uh some of the special effects in here. Quote, there was very little CGI in those days, but because I grew up in theater, I knew a lot about tricking the eye. For the fights, we strapped car batteries to the actor's legs and wired them up so they'd spark when the sword struck. After about three takes, the sword handles would get really hot and we'd have to stop. Dear God, he was electrocuting the act.

Casting Oddities And Dangerous Effects

SPEAKER_03 53:36

Uh it's crazy. Uh another wild bit is so apparently Christopher Lambert he has myopia. Um he can't see very well without his glasses, which is fine if you're doing a you know, a Shakespearean soliloquy, but when you're swinging large metal blades at each other, a giant claymore or something like that. Yeah, it's a minute. Apparently, in the second one, he was too close to um Michael Ironside and chipped his tooth. Um whether we're doing one of their sword fights, but he just couldn't he couldn't see.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

Uh well, that's really funny because I heard ironically that Michael Ironside ended up slashing his Lambert's hand during a sword fight because he doesn't know how to wield a sword.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

It's like, so hey, two guys who can't fight with swords and one guy who can't see. Confilm.

Reviews And Final Take

SPEAKER_01 54:29

What now what set to not be on? Man, didn't we is it a wonder that he loses a limb in every movie he's in? Oh man. So that's the first movie. That's that's all of it in a nutshell. And that's really the thing that you know you really need to know as a foundation for understanding Highlander until you get to the series. But I'm gonna read a couple of reviews of the first one. Daniel Griffin of Filmless Art awarded the film four stars out of four, saying, quote, the key to Highlander's success is in its approach to its subject matter. What could have been a premise that breeds cliche is given a fresh approach due to Mulcahy's unique directing style and cleverly written script. Highlander is certainly a certainly a classic film that will continue to be cherished and watched as the world of movie making continues to grow and change. It's a triumphant example of the art of cinema, and watching it reminds us of why we all like going to the movies in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

I don't know if I completely agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Oh, I mean, I I I I guess I like the heart of that review, but not necessarily the words of that review.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Yeah, I think that seems a little fanboyish. We can skip ahead to one of the more negative ones. Uh, Leonard Malton, famous critic Leonard Malton, gave the film one and a half stars. Saying, quote, interesting premise made silly and boring. Former rock video director Mulcahy's relentlessly showy camera moves may cause you to reach for the drama meeting. Okay, he's not quite wrong. I kind of feel like if you just average those scores out, yeah, you kind of get it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

I mean, it's you know, that's that's about a I mean that's about a three, right? Yeah, it's about two and a half three. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:17

I mean, that's probably right. It's probably right. It it's both a great film and a bad film.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

Yes, it is kind of fuzzed with us.

SPEAKER_00 56:35

Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.