Classic: Highlander Part 3 - Gabbin' Macleod

In our classic third installment of the Highlander franchise (because of the reported first footage of the remake premiering) we really have a blast talking about all the other fun stuff we'd been waiting to cover. 

Believe it or not, Highlander is supposed to be simple: immortals fight, heads come off, lightning happens. Then the sequels show up and the canon turns into a sword fight with itself. We pick apart why Highlander 2 and Highlander 3 feel like they were written in a different universe, and why the Highlander TV series quietly becomes the place where the franchise finally gets rules, structure, and something like continuity.

Transcript

Cold Open And Accidental Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

For only ten dollars a day, you can free Captain Teta Jones. Uh pause. Did we ever open the episode? Should we do that? No. I don't think we actually did, unless we're just gonna roll with what we did. I don't know. We can just uh welcome back to Dispatch Ajax. This is Jake. That's Gip. That's Skip. And we're talking Highlander.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Just gabbing about Highlanders. Just gabbing about them McLeod boys. Gabbing about them damn McLeod boys. Got in the garbage again. Oh man. What kind of pickle?

SPEAKER_02 1:06

How are they gonna get out of this one? Rubbing through the garbage again. You know, the creepy thing about them McLeod boys is them opposable thumbs.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

You gotta set traps. You gotta set up traps. You go and put a jar with an egg in it. You get yourself a McLeod.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Uh quick timing note. So it is four o'clock currently. It's four o'clock somewhere. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

So uh Jimmy Buffett. That's a Jimmy Buffett. Is that the timing you're talking about?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

The hate bubbles inside of me.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Urge to kill rising. It should be alright. Oh yeah. You know, we'll just we'll play it by year. I got an eye on the clock. I gotta get the eye on the prize. Uh tiger. No, no. It's because I won the gathering. And now I have the prize. We're talking about Highlander.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

Oh God, we are!

Why Highlander 2 And 3 Fail

SPEAKER_03 2:23

We are talking about Highlander again for the, I don't know, eighth installment, uh, one of which I'm sure will turn into an episode. Just like Highlander, it will never end. Just like Highlander, this podcast miniseries is immortal and makes very little sense. We just hope you don't want to cut your own head off at this point. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. You got him, Jake. You got him. Got him good. Um, so yeah. Basically, we uh well, in one of the more unusable uh audio episodes, uh, we did discuss at some length Highlander 2 and 3. I think the thing we can draw from that is that they uh they suck. And um Highlander 2 is a nightmare thing that only exists in uh a realm of pure evil. So the Highlander 3, we don't really touch on much because there's really not a lot of need to. It doesn't really mean anything except for the fact that it retcons Highlander 2 out of continuity, but then also is immediately retconned out of continuity itself. And of course, when we say continuity, we are almost always referring to Highlander the series. Because it's the backbone of Highlander lore. Huh. It's kind of like in Star Trek, in that way that the fundamental things we think about Star Trek today looking backwards, continuity-wise and like trope-wise, most of that didn't come into being until some point during the next generation. And we don't think about it that way because we think of it like it's always been that way, and that TNG was just like the next step. Founding of the Federation and replicators, and you know, like a lot of the the techno babble stuff, a lot of the backstory of how Starfleet works, a lot of the rules that they follow really don't come about until the next generation. And Highlander's a lot the same way in that we kind of think of it retroactively, right? Like we think, oh, this is what Highlander's always been like, but really it's it's just the series because those movies don't make any damn sense. They don't seem to be following any rules of any kind, filmmaking or otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

So Well, speaking of the series, what would you say would be the key elements that that the series brings to the franchise?

SPEAKER_03 4:52

Okay, that's a good question posed. Do you have some in mind? Well, the Watchers for one. Okay, that's good. The we should probably tell them what the Watchers are.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Well, okay, so these these short, bald-headed guys, and they kind of float up in space with robes. The Watchers are kind of more like a what do you say, Highlander fan club?

SPEAKER_03 5:16

Yeah, Highlander stands. They kind of like run the website. And uh they run the blog. They just like to watch Only Highlander fans? Yeah, they run the Highlander Discord, which actually is just a Geo Cities site because actually found a Highlander like fan page website. I got a ton of info off it. I think I said it to you that night. Yes, it's amazing. It's amazing because there's like no rhyme or reason to the way that the information is organized or disseminated upon us. A lot of it is just like conjecture mixed with fan fiction mixed with actual things from the show, but all in the same paragraphs.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

And trying to interpret like ancient mythology and fit it onto the archetypes of the characters. Yeah, to explain like where they come from or something. And it almost kind of works. Like if you follow some of the lines of logic, you can see where they're coming from. But it's more just like uh, you know, shooting web from somebody's brain, and you're you're kind of seeing what sticks to the wall.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah, that's an odd, odd analogy, yeah. Um the uh yeah, so I think the watchers are a good example of background. Yeah, they they watch they they've always they're they're a group of humans who know about uh the immortals and document their exploits um uh as a a vanguard of their secret, kind of, but we're you aware of them doing any type of like history project.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

I don't remember them ever trying to go back and find like the first immortals.

SPEAKER_03 6:52

Well, they kind of do vaguely. It was bad record keeping.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Uh every time someone's gonna burn down a you know Highlander library of Alexandreta. Yeah, Alexander.

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Wow. Okay, geeks outrage. That is our actual natural history. Continuity set up by Steven Spielberg films. That's the reality in which we live. Yep, that's uh that's his that's history. The watchers record but do not interfere with history. And except when they do. Is that what they do? They supposedly don't. That's their whole thing, is they record the game and they keep tally of who's still alive and how many kills each one has, but they don't really get into that until the movie Highlander Endgame, which is their Star Trek generations, you know, when they go from series to movies. The main protagonist watcher that we follow is a guy named Joe. Hey, I'm Joe.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Uh I like watching uh Highlanders. I like to watch. Hey, hey, cut his head. Cut his head. Uh yeah, yeah, kid. That's a big sword you got there. You got uh you got time to stab me? Huh? Huh?

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Oh, oh, that's that's the that's the sword joke too far, yeah? I don't know. It's dry well. I don't know. It's my fault. Keep plumbing it. His name is Joe Dawson. His name is Robert Paulson.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

And he owns a bar. Then he was he let go from the forest or disgraced for some reason, and then somehow he gets into following Highlanders.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I thought it was because he was shot. Because he has that cane in the limp. He's basically Fraser's dad. Um nicer. Except he plays guitar every now and then. And he doesn't have the dog. But other than that, it's a dead bringer. John Mahoney. Anyway, that really doesn't matter. Uh yeah, nope, not at all. The highlighter thing is more important. So yeah, Joe, Dawson, the main watcher, what they do is they they record the history of immortals and their plight and their foibles. But every now and then Joe like steps in to help Duncan because uh well, why not?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

How do they get all the money to do this? How do they get the money in the free time? Yes, wealthy benefactors, but who are these people? And what is their aim? Who are these people?

How The Series Becomes Canon

SPEAKER_03 9:17

I gotta tell you. Where do they get this money from? It's a weird thing. In Endgame, they're kind of portrayed as like monastic, like the Knights Templar or something. But I always thought that was just like the just a few of them. That was like a sect of the watchers. That's the sanctuary, yeah, where where if you don't want to be in the game anymore, you go and you hide out there. I guess that's why they it's kind of monastic, but uh it's a it is a church. So I guess that's looking too far into that one. But I I kind of have a feeling it's like you know, Russell Nash. He's they've just collected over time all this wealth and all this because I there's no like Lex Luther out there of giving them money, you know. Like it's how do we know? Well, I mean, they never say, but I mean like how would that work throughout history through all time?

SPEAKER_02 9:59

I mean well, how does it how does it work that they collected money and didn't spend it over hundreds of years telling people they're watching other people? Oh, those people, those are immortals, and they cut each other's heads off, and then lightning shoots out and they they keep going on for hundreds of years. That'll be$20.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, they're just standing on the street corner explaining the craziest fights they saw, and then people hand them money.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Yeah, uh I don't know. It it always kind of like bothered me. It's one of those things that they don't really get into, I feel, because you're just like, eh, it just happens.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

Yeah, I mean, they do have a lot of resources, they have like their own like computer programs and like even churches need tithes or you know, like donations. Uh yeah, it's like Joe. Joe is obviously not wealthy. Half his paycheck's going to the Watchers, man. He's getting garnished every week.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

I feel like the Watchers are helping him own his bar and keep his life going, providing him with a car and those things, but where that money comes from? I'm just thinking like the inner workings of say, let's say it's old money. Well, old money would be connected to powerful people. And so is the secret of immortals and Highlander and Gathering, is that with those powerful people? And then what are they utilizing the Watchers for? What is their end game?

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Yeah, it's true. Because if it's really benevolent, why would they keep doing it? If there is a benefactor, what would their motivation be other than like, well, this is tradition and we, you know, hold this to be sacred? But I mean, even that, you would figure somebody would come along and be like, no, we're just gonna go out and wipe them out.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yeah. Or you're gonna like put all you're gonna pull your resources uh behind the person you think is gonna give you favor as they ascend to the top of humanity.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

How do they manage to stay secret and hidden and operational uh even throughout the Middle Ages and the Renaissance? I mean, the Catholic Church had a long history of sniffing out the other groups that they didn't like and just exter wholesale exterminating them. How did they not just wipe out the walkers? Unless there was like an immortal pope or something, you know?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Dun dun dun Pope Immortal the 16th.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Both the Marthas. I mean, even the Catholic Church exterminated the Knights Templar when they decided they didn't like them anymore. They had too much power and influence. If they wiped out whole religions, you know, like uh Mithras? Mothra. When they wiped out Mothra, the Catholic Church finally declared war on Mothra.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

A giant Pope versus Godzilla. I want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

Who wins? We all do. You would think that the only people powerful enough to be able to do that throughout the Middle Ages would have been the Catholic Church.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah. Yeah. And then that's not even getting into the 21st century, trying to hide from all these three-letter organizations. Is the IRS knocking on the door for all the funds for these computers and satellites and cars and yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 13:05

I yeah, I mean, I'm not really I mean, it it like there would have to be government organizations that are actually shadow departments that keep everybody's trail clear. Yeah, but if they do that, then that means people in high places know. Right. Which means that either some people in high places are watchers or they are immortals. And but most immortals don't know the watchers exist. They're kind of oblivious to it. Um also, as it turns out, the watchers are um incredibly inept because at one point one of the most successful episodes, I don't know, one of the most prolific watchers. Yeah, prominent, prominent, prominent, there you go, is um Mithra or Mythos. Uh wow, it's Mithra. Mithra, that's good. Uh oh man, yeah. Mythos is a watcher, but they don't know that he's immortal. You're not doing a very good job. How does that happen? Ah man, come on. And he's like the oldest one. Everybody knows who Mythos is, but the watchers. And when they finally reveal it, they're like, ah, damn.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

You know, I've been eating lunch with you, Mythos, for I don't know, 40 years. I've gotten a lot older, but you just stay the same age.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

You're so good at watching.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Man. That's weird.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

What's your routine? Yeah. Your skincare regimen like.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Ah, you're vegan.

The Watchers Explained

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Okay, that explains a lot. Okay. You know, that actor the Plague Mythos, his like big role after Highlander was he was um like an extra essentially in X2. Electric Boogaloo? Yeah, the second uh the second X-Men movie, uh Rise of the Whatever. No, uh it's just called X2. Um it's it's it's it's just called X2. We used to make fun of names of sequels back then for being bad. Like there was always just the reckoning or resurrection or whatever, but now it's like rise of some garbage that doesn't have anything to do with the movie. Okay. Rise of the goblins. Yeah, really. I mean, that's just you just summed up most of JJ Averb's influence on modern cinema. But anyway, yeah, he was he was one of the he was one of Stryker's like shock troops that invaded the mansion. Um and you you could barely recognize him because he was wearing camouflage face paint and goggles and the night vision goggles, but I saw him in the credits. Did he at least get stabbed by Wolverine at the fridge? Uh no. I don't think I think he dies off screen, actually. Really sad. Like, yeah, he's 6,000-year-old immoral. He dies off screen in the next Men movie. That's a bummer.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Uh I always thought he would be a good like sub-level villain in a direct-to-video Steven Segal feature. Oh, yeah. In like 2004.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

I'm guessing doing like a Russian accent. Vaguely Eastern European. Yeah, you know. Yeah, vaguely like Ukrainian or something. Somebody that Putin hates. It's like Chechen or something. Yeah. I'm a Baltonian. That's it's not a thing. I'm from Gary Oldman's stand. Old mania. So the watchers. So anyway, that's a lot like Highlander. Um yeah. Uh yeah, so Joe's like the main uh and Mythos was a watcher, and it turns out that he was also immortal, and they kind of just like he's like, gotcha, and then they all kind of drop it because what are they gonna do? They're the watchers, they don't do anything. Um but they do they do um and Joe just kind of helps out Connor because they're friends, or Duncan, sorry, Duncan, god damn it again. You could just say McLeod, and then you're just covered. He helps out the clan McLeod. He does. I mean, it's not a lie. Um yeah, and so like the watchers are, I think, one of the main i in it the show is unique because it's not the premise of the show seems to be set up, and not at the beginning necessarily, even though they do introduce the watchers early on, but it seems to be set up to where like the the premise isn't just following around a McLeod doing immortal things. It's supposed to, it's kind of like they're they originally wanted it to be told through the eyes of the watchers, like through uh because like even Joe Dawson does the intro, he voices over the intro, and in like with the later seasons, like seasons like three and four. He's like, This is Duncan McLeod, you know, we are the watchers, you know. Um I I feel like they were trying to do that to make it sort of like maybe as part of their pitch to get the show. Because otherwise, the what what's the what's the otherwise the pitch is literally just like well it's Highlander, but a show. Yeah, yeah. It's uh a mortal of the week. Right, yeah, it is mortal of the week, yeah. And and uh all of the villains have names that start with K. It's uh it's a new thing we're trying out. It's like Klingons. Yeah, there's a lot of Star Trek parallels here. Um so yeah, so the watchers are you know I I feel like they're they're they're kind of the backbone of the whole thing. They're they're but they don't really focus on them as much as you would think they would.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Um that's also like how much can you focus on them? Yeah I mean, how interesting can that if you're taking the story away from the Highlanders? Yeah, what what are you really doing?

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Hi, I'm Joe. I watch. Okay. He's just like in their bathroom, like like behind the shower curtain, you know. That's the entire series. Yeah, I mean, you're you're right, that premise is kind of it's kind of a dead end. But so that's one of the fundamental pillars, I think, is that we now know that there are a group of people who have always known. Which makes sense. I mean, like if these if mortals have been fighting since literally the dawn of time, since mankind's existence, then somebody's gonna figure it out.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

See, having having an organization that has a firm endpoint to go to instead of just well, we just do this. I just I just watch TV because I need to watch TV. Who's gonna watch TV if I don't watch TV?

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Right, that's true. Something's always something's always on. Yeah, I mean, I you could say the gathering would be their you know their uh sort of ultimate conclusion, but like um, but like for being an organization that knows everything about them and records everything through history, um, they don't even know what the prize is. They don't know when the gathering's happening, they don't know if it's happening right now, they don't know where it's gonna be, they don't know what the prize even is. Well, let's be honest, nobody knows what the prize is. I know, but if anybody did, shouldn't it be them?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Not the characters, not the writers, not the directors, nobody.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

Uh Panzer Davis, no clue. Sounds like a sounds like a Sega Saturn game or something, but Panzer Davis coming this fall. Um get it for your Jaguar system for your Neo Geo home. Um I'm gonna play it on the Atari Lynx coming up soon.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

Um yeah, I think more cat-based game systems. They do. Yep. Uh yeah. Uh yeah, Calico 6000.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Uh well, yeah. I'm thinking of John Colicos, the guy who played Baltar and Core. Just game systems based on John Colicos. That's what you should do. Oh, oh, okay. All right, yeah. The actor, not any of his characters.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Yep. Nope. It's uh it's a straight line from one to the other. Who wouldn't make that connection?

SPEAKER_03 20:56

A to Z. Um, yeah, that is one of the backbones of the of the series that makes it what it is. Um, and I think it's kind of maybe the most important one because through the telling, through the watchers, that's how you get continuity. Because they they they're the ones that are like, well, this is the history, this is how everything's shaped up, even though they still don't tell us anything. They they still have given us no information, but they have at least created some sort of constancy, some sort of like framework for us to be able to understand what the rules of this universe are. Um something the movies um fail to do spectacularly, uh in any way, shape, or form. And uh that's it, like like I like we mentioned with Highlander 3, like so Highlander 1 happens, and immediately, by virtue of it being a sequel, the ending of it is moot, it's retconned, because Connor did not win the prize. Uh the gathering is it may not even be happening. Um And it's not over at all. And then I would do, of course, which makes literally zero sense, um, has been retconned and retcons itself out of continuity at least three times. The rules are kind of set up by uh the series, but the the movies like Highlander 2 completely negate Highlander 1's ending. And then Highlander 2 is negated by Highlander 3, which goes back and says that like Highlander 1 did happen kind of, but not the ending. And Highlander 2, uh we're not aliens. Um, and now we're living in what is it like out? He's living in like Algeria or something. He's in um and he's he he was married to the woman from the his love interest from the first one who he never mentioned because she's not interesting. Uh, but then she died in a car wreck. What before the continuity of this movie? It's the oldest story. Yeah, it's the oldest story. Happens every time. And then they say that the somehow the there's there is one other immortal other than Connor. Even though they don't really talk about him having the prize, the other immortal is only alive because he was trapped in a cave by a Japanese wizard.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Which it's Yeah, but then they just your pitch. That's an elevator pitch right there. That's that's a good pitch. But I mean, then they just retcon that, because there are Highlanders all over all the time, and new Highlanders being spawned constantly.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I think that's the other most important thing that the series establishes is that there are new immortals being born currently. So even if this is the gathering, the gathering was going to take a billion years.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Which is something I I wish they would explore more, that there are always gonna be newer mortals. So fighting to the end for the prize that's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 23:57

That's an interesting angle to take. I never really thought about that. Yeah, like what if the what if the gathering never comes? Like, what if it's just myth and folklore? Like, that's actually an interesting approach. Then you could just sort of delve into the pointlessness of of not only being immortal, but of their entire mythos, their entire mythos.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

There it is. Innately, if you just had no point to like living forever, then you'd try to better yourself and better those around you. You know, try to make rise, you know, uh a rising tide lifts all ships. Or the people who are like, I'm tired of this, and they just want to end their own existence.

Who Funds The Watchers

SPEAKER_03 24:34

Wouldn't there be three archetypes? Because you'd have the anarchist nihilists, you'd have like the Kurgans. You don't have to worry about them, they're just nihilists. Must be exhausting. Then you have the uh altruists, like the McLeod boys. No damn McLeod boys. That's what Endgame should have been. It should have been Dukes of Hazard with with two not Scottishmen playing Scottish now.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Now you see them there, McLeod boys, they're caught in quite a bucket of syrup.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

I guess you do carry syrup buckets in Canada. Um the yeah, I I mean I that's a that's a cop buddy movie waiting to happen. Like I totally watched them the McLeod Boys. The McLean McLeod boys got up into a ruckus and caught in the fracas down by the creek.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

Well, but it's like least charismatic immortals. It was like, uh, I'm McLeod, you're McLeod.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

Uh so uh we we both had long hair at one point. Yeah. That's a show that happened. This is our show.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Yeah, we there's some we we got we got haircuts.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

As bad as Christopher Lamb Lambert's hair was, it basically was the exact same haircut as Mel Gibson from Braveheart. Oh the first movie. And so you you kind of think like, I guess it's a Scottish thing. Uh I guess it's a medieval Scottish thing. Uh, but but that doesn't explain Duncan's like romance novel haircut, he keeps in a cigal style ponytail, the entirety of the series.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Uh Skip, it's called being sexy. Try it out.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

I wear a lot of loose silk shirts. If you just described the aesthetic of what's supposed to be the sexy, you know, leading man, Duncan McLeod, uh, it just sounds like like an archetypal swinger, you know. Like he's like a he's uh you got like a like an 80s like Cokehead swinger guy uh who owns a hot tub.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

I would love for some Highlander to come at night and he's just in like this half undone, you know, fluffy robe, and he's like, come in for a drink, I don't you he just looks like Alfred Molina from uh Boogie Nights.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

This is the good bit of the song. That's the Highlander we deserve.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Because you gotta know there were years where he was just like, you know what? I'm going, I'm moving to Columbia, and this is just my life for the next five years.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

The show was French Canadian. We have to mention that. It's not an American show, it's a French Canadian produced series. Man, that that franchise really is kind of worldly, isn't it? The second movie was shot in Argentina, the first one was shot in Scotland, the series is shot in like there's a it's a contractual thing um for their production, but half of the show has been shot in France, and then the rest can be shot in Canada. So like there are whole seasons where Duncan is just living in a houseboat in Paris. He can see the Eiffel Tower from his houseboat. That sounds nice. Like, where did he get that money? Where did Duncan get his money?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Well, see, the Highlanders, they all make sense. Them all having money and being rich, I get that. You could put money just in a bank, let it accrue over time. Yeah, you give a gold Krugeran or whatever. Having them be rich, I get that. And it makes sense. You know, having a destitute Highlander is like, wow, how bad did you have to f up?

SPEAKER_03 27:55

Okay, but this brings up an interesting existential thing about the premise of the franchise, right? They all do have money. Well, I mean, some of them don't. There's that weird rednecky one that we always the Mark Singer one? Yeah, the Mark Singer one where he's uh When it's the Beastmaster Highlander in the in the hills. Where it's deliverance, but he's immortal. Yeah. Um You know, your girlfriend got a purr to my house. Yeah, that's exactly what that he even does the accent. It's it's it's it's actually probably more like Southern Comfort than it is deliverance, but uh you know, it it's still tracks. They all have money except for a couple of weird crazy rednecks or schizophrenics. And to do that, you would have to think that you they would have bought land or bought property in like you know the 1800s. Then why don't they control more of human society? Like, why aren't they all super rich and powerful controlling what humans do?

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Because that's when you get famous. That's when people know about you. You gotta stay hidden.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

But a lot of them hide their wealth as it is. So like it's it's in a trust. Like we owned this property in a trust that's owned by a foundation and a shell company. You could very easily just I feel like they don't get into I I understand your But if you're Andrew Carnegie the Highlander, okay, people are gonna like interview you, you're gonna be known.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

It's gonna be tougher to fake your death. There's too many complications with becoming that type of wealthy and famous. Well, I mean, if you're Richard Branton or something, yeah, but I mean like But I do think it's dangerous to have, you know, have uh, I don't know, you know, McLeod cars, you know, and and Right. I mean you have to be subtle.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

But I mean like Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen don't make public appearances. People haven't like seen them publicly in like ten years, but they have their names and pick and you know likeness slapped all over a bunch of cheap products. But like you could just not do that. You could just stay out of the limelight. Yeah, but when does that end? Well, I don't They just they just fake their death? And then why not? They do that anyway. That's already standard practice for immortals in this universe.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Yeah, but why wouldn't you just want to be wealthy and not famous? Why do you want to have, you know, media control or some giant organization with your name on it?

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Some of them want to be anonymous but still pulling the strings, you know, like just like certain people do. Like the Koch brothers, you know, they just want to like they don't want to be seen publicly. They don't want anyone knowing what they give money to. They just want to give the money and reshape the world in their image, you know, like Netanyahu's father or you know, like people like that that just want to reshape the world without anybody knowing.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Well, I mean, I'm sure there's probably some immortals who did that and they they make calls to Ronald Reagan, you know?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

Sure, let's talk, let's let's see that. I I want to see it. That's what I'm saying. Like, why don't they do that more? Like, that's an interesting idea. If you want a villain, if you want a good villain, give me Lex Luther, don't give me parasite or whatever. Don't give me something that is solved. Something that is I'm I'm I'm saying something that is solved by punching it. You know, don't give me that. I give give me give me the evil that's why Lex Luther is like Superman's greatest foe, because you can't solve Lex Luthor by punching it. You you have to like, mm-hmm, he's an existential villain. That's a movie I'd like to see.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Or how about uh a Highlander stages the death of another Highlander and shows him coming back to life? He's on the run. A real blade three situation.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

We got a blade three here. Yes, that's right. Do we have to do we have to blade three it? It's a movie that exists. Sorry. It sucks real hard. That's the real villain in the whole DCEU problem. It's David Goyer. And people don't talk about that, but it is. He's the one that ruined all of it.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Well, he is. I I don't think it's any one person's problem or fault.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

I think it's two. It's Jack Snyder and David Goyer, okay? Anyway, we should not be talking about David Goyer right now. Uh this is your fault. You did this. It is my fault. That is my fault.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah, I think you either have those those few people behind the scenes, or I think you have what I I think we talked about Kurgan a bit, who's like, I don't care about people. I don't care about these petty humans. I'm above them, I'm gonna live thousands of years beyond them. What they do doesn't matter. And they just live their own life forever. Okay, so the series introduced the watchers and introduced new Highlanders being made all the time. I can't say that it really did a whole lot more for the mythos beyond that, other than just fleshing things out.

Mythos Reveal And Lore Holes

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Well, uh, one important thing it seems to do is set in stone the idea that Highlander 1 did happen, two did not, three did not, of course, in the first episode, Connor shows up. Right, Christopher Lambert himself is there. Um they they do an immediate retcon of what we've already seen by showing flashbacks of being buddies throughout history. The McLeod boys. And then they fight Bull from Nightcourt, which is the matchup we were all waiting on the edges of our seat for. Yeah, that's probably the most other most important thing that the series does, and it only happens in one episode, but that it establishes that almost everything that happens in Highlander happens, except goes out of its way to establish that even if this is the gathering, there are other immortals. That was not the final battle. That was not the prize, that was not the final battle. Just cut the last five minutes off of the end of Highlander, and then and everything's fine. So, I mean I I think those are the three basic things that the the series really brings to the table.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

Well, the show did get us to the final Highlander movie that matters.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Uh Endgame, yeah. Yeah, which clever title. Uh the last one that's not terrible. Um it's not even good. It's really not good, but it's better than some. It is.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

I think it's it's just that our expectations are so low that it's not completely awful, and so we think of it as being okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Yeah, well, and it does, I think you and I both appreciated it for the reasons that we just brought it up, is that it actually it helps establish the continuity and canon and rules as sort of sacrosanct, even though it completely goes against all of that stuff. The the plot of the movie completely ruins everything the show sets up. That these rules are you know die hard rules by having the main villain uh being so insidious because he fights on holy ground. And it's like, okay, so you can just do that now? Like they made that a huge deal in the show. You can't do that. And of course, he does it, which on paper you're like, oh he breaks the rules, that's crazy, good idea. But then it's like, why? Uh choose shoes, crosses on sign me up. He has anti-god shoes. He does, you know, he has pro-god shoes, that's the problem. Uh I always took it, like, the only way I could rationalize it was that you know, because he was uh uh the son of a priest, that his like Christian Preacher Man. Uh that's true. Yeah, apologize. Yes, that is nomenclature. Uh I figured that it was because he he was overtly religious that it somehow the rules were different for him because if it is just about being sacred, you know, like holy ground being sacred, that he was able to transcend that because of his inherent belief in those rules not being true. But that really opens up a really bad, yeah, that's that's a bad precedent to set, and not a very good. I mean, that should never have left the writer's table.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

It's what oh did you see what he did? He broke the rules. This guy doesn't f around. This is not your grandpa's Highlander, he'll kill anybody anywhere. Yeah. But of course, they then remove that in the DVD version.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Oh, yeah, not have them.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Yeah, and in the theatrical version, Mythos refers to the Sanctuary's Holy Ground. Uh, but because so many people are upset uh that you know, Immortal Kid on Holy Ground with no consequence, afterwards in the DVD version, all references to the Sanctuary's Holy Ground were deleted. So that's only because we saw it in the theater.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

They they called our house to ask us to watch the movie. This this actually happened when JK roommate in college. We got a phone call that Jake answered the phone, and it was someone asking if Jake was interested in future updates of the Highlander movie franchise. And he and yeah, I just remember you going, uh, yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Obviously. How did you know? And then we just we started getting uh like a Highlander magazine that, like, hey, do you want to buy swords?

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Like, I didn't give you my address. How did you find me? Like, if that's your marketing campaign, that's uh that's a shot in the dark, man. Because you we went to how many houses did you have to send that to before you found the two guys that were like, yes, please give me Highlander merchandise?

SPEAKER_02 37:26

I like to think that they had like uh some magic machine that was built in the 80s and could find exactly what they needed, but somehow it got in the hands of the Highlander prop department. I mean, they could have used this to find bin Laden or the boys from Brazil, but no. We've gotta find we've got to find the Highlander fans so we can get them these sweet swords.

SPEAKER_03 37:49

These two Highlander fans living in northern Missouri for college. Yes, that's exactly what happened. But maybe, maybe, maybe we had watchers. Wow. Poor guys. They're just watchers who watch people who watch Highlander. That's a rabbit hole I want to go down. You want to waste the money. Sign me up. I hope it pays well. I don't care if it pays well, sign me up for that right now.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

I just want to know what they're reporting back. Like, oh yeah. Uh so it's Friday the 13th. Uh he has jerked off for the third time today, and he's put on Dune again. So uh yeah, he did he's not even watching a horror film.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Oh huh. Hey, is that a sword? Oh no, that's the one from Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Oh. That used to go off if you uh Jake used to have a toy sword from Lord of the Rings. Ooh, that lost them. Yeah, it would it made noise and lit up like a you were fighting sword fighting. It was a sting. But if you stepped too close to it, it would go off. Like you if you breathed on it or looked at it mean, it would go off. And so you had to like you had to creep around the upstairs just to keep that sword from acting from it sounding like you were Errol Flynn in a sword fight.

SPEAKER_02 39:12

It was good for killing me thieves or uh but then I did buy your Raghine Islander sword. Yes, you did. Yeah, one of the many cool items you've gotten me.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

No, I didn't get that much stuff. Got me way more stuff, but I just like I remember I had the chance to buy it. I was like, when is this gonna come up again? I did so I bought Jake a replica uh Clan McLeod Claymore um from the first islander. I'm like, I've only got of course later you yeah, well, and ones well, all right. That's that joke's just gonna leave. I'm gonna leave that dangling. Um that's a high and tight. The only thing I didn't, you know, like anticipate is that you would eventually work in a comic book store too. And then now you can just you have access to that stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

They don't have to do swords and previews anymore. They stopped doing it. Oh, they don't really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Yeah, it's very rare.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

We had a guy, um one of the I think one of the reasons we were able to do that was because we um we used to sell a lot of swords and stuff, uh, like on consignment through this other guy uh um who ended up opening a sword shop. He like sold but he did his entire job was selling swords at like the Renfest and stuff. That's nuts. Uh how do you get it? Yeah, and he was like two two two two doors down. He was like, he just sold swords and knives and stuff. You sure he wasn't two doors down? Well, was he was he doing uh military recruitment uh propaganda um commercials that would air before trailers and movie theaters? Because if not, uh I can't tell.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

We will never know the truth.

Immortal Money And Hidden Power

SPEAKER_03 40:56

We'll never know the truth. Um so yeah, so in in the show, you know, it just follows around Duncan McLeod who's Connor's cousin, which cheap, that's cheap, but whatever, it's fine. Um at least they weren't like at least he was you know younger. Like he was born decades later. I'll give him that one. At least there's that. Um it's not like they were like twin brothers or something, and then they just kind of like shoehorned a retcon into that. Um at least he was like, you know, born 40 years later or whatever, 80 years, whatever it was. Some amount of years later. Some well, in your immortal, they all kind of blur together, I'm sure. But um, you know, and then in the show, he like he has unfortunately as as you you aptly put it last time we talked about this, it does one of the good things about the show in showing us that there are new immortals being made all the time by doing a bad thing by giving us the character of Richie, who is the Wesley Crusher, yes, of the Highlander franchise. He that's an it's an astute observation that I had not thought of. Yes, he's the most annoying thing. He's got nothing. No, no, he's the Jonathan Brandis in Sequest. He's uh at least he was a heartthrob. I'm sorry to the actor who played Richie, but you know. And that's fine, because he sucks. Richie is Richie is an immortal who doesn't know he's an immortal yet. He hasn't had his first death. Duncan knows. The dogs know it. Um, everybody knows that he's in a pre-immortal except him. And then there's like a for a while, there's a is he or isn't he? And then he does eventually get his first death, and then finds out he's immortal, and he Duncan takes him under his wing. And it's supposed to be like what Ramirez did for Connor uh type thing, but it's terrible. You know what? He's he's the scrappy-doo of Highlander. So we don't like Richie. We're talking about the character of Richie, yes. We're talking about the character of Richie. Feel very badly that that actor died. But Stan Kirsch was his name.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

He was 51.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

You know what, you know what the archetype is.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

You know what it is. It's just yeah, I mean, he's the character to bring you into this world. It's the stand-in for the audience. So you're like, oh, if I was just a normal person and I became a Highlander, that's what this would be like. Right. They probably had like, all right, Richie's gonna be the focus this season. It's like, oh man, this sucks. Everything's good except for this guy.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

That was kind of set up to be the premise of the show, is that the everyman, any kid off the street, could be immortal, which is I think one of the appeals they were trying to make.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Mm-hmm.

The Raven Spin-Off Trainwreck

SPEAKER_03 43:45

But they don't really use that as their premise for the rest of the show. One of the weird things that the show does is they the it is a success. I mean, it's a successful show in that it keeps getting renewed. And apparently I it does well in Europe. I think that was one of the ideas was that uh I think the the movie did well in Europe, so they were gonna try and appeal to you know to the uh international crowd more than the American crowd, because uh I mean it didn't have a network, it was on at like 10 o'clock on a Saturday night on Channel 62, you know, when we were kids. Uh which for people who don't know, that's essentially what the movie UHF is based on. It's a it was a UHF station that didn't have a a network affiliate that used to be a thing where they just showed syndicated stuff all day for every day, uh, which ruled for a long time. Yeah, we loved it. Yeah, it was all B movies, and it's always like it's Sunday at 2 p.m. Here's Battle Beyond the Stars. And it's like, sweet, yeah, all right. Up next, Sky Pirates. Followed by Ice Pirates. One of the weird things that the series does well. I mean, it people do seem to like it. It does, I think it does well because it it it appeals to people like Star Trek fans who like continuity and rules and structure uh in world building. So it does a pretty good job of that. It is it is just immortal of the week, um, but they do get into some really interesting themes. Um, and we touched on that before, like some of the our favorite moments from that. But then it's so successful that they want to try and spin off. Mm-hmm. Here's where it gets weird. So they they know they want to spin off because they know that this show isn't gonna last forever. They know that they want the immortal to be a woman, they don't have a woman in mind. But they've already introduced uh the character of Amanda Grayson, who's another immortal who's basically Catwoman. She's just catwoman, she's a thief and a con artist who is also immortal, and she you know, is the on again, off again, are they a thing or not? But they do bang in a few episodes kind of character with Duncan. And at one point they introduce I think it's like three different female characters with arcs that they're like, well, one of these is going to be the spin-off, you know, lead. We just need to find out who's good and who isn't. That's when you get a bizarre love interest who's also from the clan McLeod in Scotland in an episode when Duncan goes back to reconnect with his roots. Gotta keep it in the family. I mean, there's far removed, obviously, but but that doesn't go anywhere. A lot of them don't go anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

That's kind of a highlander's thing.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

Exactly. Um so essentially they kind of like settle on Amanda Grayson as the lead for the spin-off called The Raven. It was a disaster, um, but also one of the most bizarre uh experiments and and set of circumstances that has ever befallen a TV show. So or I'm sorry, Amanda, who's played by Elizabeth Grayson. She uh used to be, what was she Miss America or Miss USA? She was one of the two.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Um small town of Arkansas, a year after Traveling World, as Miss America 1982.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

That's right, Miss Okay, Miss America 1982. So Bill Clinton sleeps with her in 1983 when he was governor of Arkansas. But in 1992, that comes up again when Bill Clinton's running for office, and then of course, during the Kennestar investigation, that gets all dug up again, and poor Elizabeth Grayson is put through the ringer once again, being asked, being subpoenaed to testify uh but before the special counsel, uh, looking into Bill Clinton. The here's where it gets really weird. So the man, the man that she's married to while working on the show, is a nutbag. He's completely controlling and paranoid. He's like a paranoid schizophrenic, essentially, and thinks that everyone's out to get her. Now, some of the paranoia was fueled by the fact that she was being investigated by Kenneth Starr. And I guess that just put fuel on the fire, but he apparently was controlling of everything that she did, of like what she ate, what she wore, like when she was available to be on set. He completely dominated their relationship in a really abusive way. And um it got to the point where you know, but she she was married to, she believed him, and so like the the way they were able to get out of testifying in front of Kenneth Star was to um they would randomly leave in the middle of the night to go to Las Vegas or the Caribbean, or you know, they had to scheme to make sure that she was shooting out of the country for the raven when her court appearance was supposed to be, so that she couldn't come back. And so she she managed to dodge it, but according to um some investigation done by uh other websites, and this is from an article from a website called uh Scream Sheet, she was dating a guy who seems to have been both a skilled con artist and an. He convinced her that he was the U.S. ambassador to the Cayman Islands, which was not true. He convinced her that her co-star, Paul uh Johansson on The Raven, was a government spy trying to get information from her. And the whole show was kind of like set up as like a moonlighting with immortals thing, because he's like a cop and she's a criminal, and is there a do uh will they won't they? But there was no romantic chemistry between them because she was told being told actively that he was a government agent spying on her and that she was going to be arrested any minute. And so that didn't go well, apparently. But apparently he was also an asshole. Apparently, he wasn't a very good guy either. Uh it's conflicting reports, but some people said that that Johansson would hit on Grayson all the time, not knowing that she thought he worked for the CIA, to the point where it was reported that he exposed himself to her on set at one point. Ugh. He just like straight up dropped his pants in front of her. Yeah, but I mean, nobody knows because there's a lot of like weird paranoid rumors going on during that time. And then uh the show was not going well. Uh they had tried to go like Star Trek Enterprise and not make it a Highlander show, which was the brilliant, brilliant marketing there. Let's take away the popular element. Uh, the production company brought on board uh David uh Abramowitz and Dennis Berry, who were the creative team that helped really shape Highlander the series. But they got bought uh by a German network. They became the new financial backers. Since the German network had no stake in the original series, uh they made all these like demands, concept changes, script changes, budget cuts, uh all this other stuff that basically drove those guys out and they were like, screw this, we're leaving. So it ended up just becoming a really bland cop drama where one of characters was also an immortal with a sword. So that that worked out really well. And then if that wasn't you know doomed enough, they had a really hard time putting out episodes because their composer wouldn't do any work. He literally would just not do the job. A refreshing approach to professionalism. This is a quote from one of the editors on the show. It was like pulling teeth to get him to do what had to be done, pull himself away from the corner bar and actually earn his paycheck instead of drinking it away. That's not good. That's that's not good.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Uh I might like to go have a a night on the town with this guy.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Uh well, I mean, yeah, we it's hang out with him and uh and uh Sean Connery on set of uh Miracle Islander. Oh, that's a good time. That's a mirror, man, that's a party. The concept of movie two was supposed to be that she was like this, she you know, she was a feminist icon and she was like a powerful woman, you know, doing her own thing in the in the work-aday world or whatever. Should have been like working girl, but with an immortal, you know. But instead, just kind of like in working girl, um most of what she ends up doing is just tied to the motivations of a man. So it wasn't at all what they anticipated the show would be. It just sucked. I mean, it was just not a good show. It was bland, it was boring, nothing ever happened, essentially. And uh yeah, everyone hated each other, and it lasted one season and um pretty much ruined everyone's career that was involved with it.

SPEAKER_04 52:58

So yeah.

Endgame Plot And Rule Breaking

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Yeah, so that's not good. But then unfortunately, she's not in it, but then you get Highlander Endgame.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

Yes, uh, which the endgame has come.

SPEAKER_03 53:12

The endgame has come, finally. Yeah, it's a great, and then I well, it's not great. It's not great.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Yeah, it's not very good at all.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Not very good at all.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Again, our bar is so low. Look at look what happened to Raven. And we're like, oh, ooh, okay. Oh, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_03 53:25

Oh, it's got it's got both McLeod boys in there? The the the villain of uh Highlander Endgame. Basically, we'll just sum that up really super, super quickly. The the Highlander Endgame is goes flashes back, sort of retconning the first movie, kind of, and also Highlander the series by showing more of the Clan McLeod and you know, Glenn Finn, that when Connor was driven out of the clan, they decided to punish him even further by killing his mother, like burning her as a heretic for a witch. And he goes to try and rescue her and he ends up killing the priest of the village, which happens to be the father of another immortal who doesn't know he's immortal. Eventually finds out he's immortal and then goes on a billion-year vendetta against Connor. And why he's never been able to find him in all that time, no clue, because it's been 400 years. Um, but he finds out that that Connor, basically, right after Highlander 1, uh, when his secretary lady is killed uh in a terrorist attack by Jacob, decides he doesn't want to play the game anymore, and he puts himself in a medically induced coma in a place called Sanctuary run by the Watchers, and so that he can not kill anyone, but also live.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Because that's uh it's a sanctuary for Highlanders who are done with the fighting in the game and they want to get out of it. So they're protected, but they don't have to live this ongoing life and keep fighting other immortals for eternity. Mm-hmm. And Jacob is he's Mr. Badass Highlander, he's killed all these Highlanders, and he keeps getting these levels up from every Highlander head he pops off. That's why he's they do video gamify this.

SPEAKER_03 55:19

Yeah, they really do.

unknown 55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:21

Which I mean, I I kind of like though. It adds another dimension to the rules of it. Like you it shows that you get you're a more badass like fighter, the more people it's like the one with Jet Lee. You know, uh yep, exactly. And they don't really they they kind of hint at that in the series more than any of the other ones, but like, okay, yeah, they do they they have power-ups. Every time you kill a boss, you power up, and they're like, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_02 55:48

Yeah. So he's he's so strong that neither of them their McLeod boys could possibly take him on just at one. Uh because they'd lose.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Because that's a rule. Well, because it's a rule, you can only fight one at a time. That's true. Which this movie also breaks because they have the because he is a gang of immortals, including uh uh uh Donnie Yu, um as the Asian one, and who knows martial arts, yeah. Uh kill a bunch of other immortals as a as a roving gang of of miscreants, like it's Clockwork Warrange.

SPEAKER_02 56:25

Is is bloody well droogs. So then uh they have to decide, well, we've gotta we've gotta end this because he's broken into the sanctuary and killed all these other immortals, and if he keeps going on, he's gonna get the prize, blah blah blah. Connor decides to sacrifice himself and give his power to Duncan.

SPEAKER_03 56:45

And so that forcing he put Duncan in a situation where supposedly he couldn't do anything to get out of this like sword trap other than kid then cutting off Connor's head makes no sense whatsoever. You could just be like, or drop the sword, you know, like or just not do that thing.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Uh no. No, it's it's it's uh dire win. Possible, you know? That's the only that's the only moves you can do with Brunette, the particular sword thing, which is that's the same move they do at the end, right? It's like the special maneuver.

SPEAKER_03 57:21

Yeah. That's the callback. The end is the callback too. They set it up, and and and it's stupid when they set it up because they're like, what other purpose does this scene serve other than to show what you're going to do at the end? Right? I mean, completely. Yeah, it's like 400 years ago he taught me this weird sword move where you lock swords together behind your heads, and uh, I'm sure this won't come up again later, and then no one mentioned it again. It's like, okay, what um so there's your movie. Here you go.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Alright. So skip to the end, they've had big battles, they're locked in, eternal struggle.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

They introduce another redcon love interest.

SPEAKER_02 58:06

Yes, yes, which we'll then play on later. Yeah, no, no, she's probably like my favorite part.

SPEAKER_03 58:13

Um probably the only really redeeming thing from the movie is that his love interest is a woman who wants revenge on him because she was a pre-immortal, didn't know it. He wanted her to live forever the way that she was, because he knew she was immortal, and so he murders her on their wedding night. Yeah. Yeah. So that she'll stay that way forever. Wow. Yeah, that's that's some heady shit.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

That's that's the rough one.

SPEAKER_03 58:39

That's a that is a heady elixir we've got there going to by like four finally. We've got some moral ambiguity and some um, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:45

Yeah, sweet. Faith is one of my my favorite parts of of the uh the whole mythos there. Yeah, the mythos. Uh the mythos. Yeah, but then of course, Duncan wins at the end, killing Jacob, head off, all the power, he's now over nine thousand.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

And uh of what you of what unit of measurement is that?

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Uh uh highlander points.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

He's nine thousand heads strong now.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

I think if you were to add up all of them and be around a thousand, maybe a little lower.

SPEAKER_03 59:24

Yeah, I think it's just under a thousand, because like he had 175 or so, like 176, Connor had 220 something, and Jacob had 661. So yeah, it'd be about it'd be almost a thousand. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, but that includes all the people that those immortals killed.

SPEAKER_02 59:44

Yeah, which then goes back. Well, oh geez, well then you go back what those immortals killed. It's it's infinite.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

Yeah. No, it's uh Yeah, because Duncan now has Kurgan's power and memories and all that crazy shit. Yeah, which they also barely touch on ever. Except in that one Superman III Arcan where he Which was a cool arc. It was good. Except it's kind of weird because he like goes to like a Native American shaman or whatever to purge his evil quickening out of him or whatever. It's kind of it's a little problematic, but it's a good idea. You know, that's the thing that the the show does. It takes these questions that we have, and then it actually tries to make them episodes. Like it tries to explore the universe by giving us rules and then well, eventually breaking them, but giving us rules and then playing within the universe's structure, which is great. This is what we wanted.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:37

Which is exactly. It's the whole reason we love this season. I mean, this uh uh franchise. Yes, this franchise in itself. It's all about these cool ideas that aren't really defined too well, but gives us so much room to think about them and play in our heads.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:59

That's true. And quickly before we wrap this episode up, uh, because we're gonna have to do an episode where we devote entirely to how we fix the franchise from sucking.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

We we promise you Highlander will end at some point.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:13

It will die at some point. You guys, there's a bunch of episodes you guys will never even hear. Uh so so then there was Highlander the Source, which came out, it was sci-fi original, so we're right there here on the right path, uh, in 2007, where it's set post-apocalyptic earth, and it's it's a weird hero's journey thing where either crossing the wastelands to find the source of the immortality. They're not looking for the prize anymore, they're not worried about the gathering, they're looking for the source.

The Source And Post-Apocalypse Detours

SPEAKER_02 1:01:41

Which is also extremely ill-defined. And even when it happens, it's essentially the source is about being able to have kids?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Yeah, so one thing that I've read was interesting, and I think yeah, that's bad. That part is stupid. The source but like they they treat the source like the prize, because they've talked about the source before, and they talk about the prize, but they treat the source like it's the prize. Oh, we found the source, now we can have children. That's not a source. That's a prize, I guess. Like I that's not a that's not a source of anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:23

I mean, none of it really makes sense because there's also they introduced these super Highlander archetypal beings that are the guardian of the There's the Guardian, and then there's well, it's all these old Highlanders who tried to get to the source, got close, were rejected by the source, and then turned into different elemental forces. So like one's like a blade-like slug dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Um it's bizarre. It's they they really, really went off the deep end on that one. I I it's none of it makes any sense. Even the people involved are like, no, that never happened. That movie was a fever dream that Duncan had. Like, oh, okay. All right, that's official canon now that it's no, he had a bad dream and it was Highlander the Sword.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Yeah, those that was a whole year in Bogota where he was just on Mescaline in ayahuasca. That's what the source was.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

It's that season, it's that one season of Roseanne. It's just like all none of it really happened. And then, okay, so and so there's that's the last like official Highlander movie, right? But but wait, there's more.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

There's always more.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:35

There's always more. There, so there were a series of fan movies produced, which normally either you get sued for or they're just terrible, or both. But these were approved of by Panzer Davis Production Company, and the guy that made them was actually given like a budget and permission to write and direct his own Highlander fan movies that ended up being official extras on the series Blu-rays. That's awesome. But they didn't they only made like the first two seasons on Blu-rays, so they uh the whole thing ended up getting scrapped, but he still made the movies and he edited them together into like a one, because they were like shorts, and he edited together into a longer film. And it's the Highlander Dark Places uh is this one specifically, and it takes to introduces Melege Sena Cavaco, a Brazilian immortal, um, which okay, cool, it's interesting. Is like he has a villain from who's Romanian from the 15th century. I don't know, it's whatever. But then then we have Highlander Cullen, Hans Kirschner. It's about a guy named Hans. What? Yes, I'm not making this up. It's uh it was a half-hour fan-made Highlander short, authorized by Panzer Davis, and was produced by a company called Devil Bane Productions in 2017. It's about an immortal named Hans Kirschhner, who's a weary man living at the end of the 18th century. Uh his failures have broken him completely, and he now lives as a drunk, lamenting the past. Uh, and his hometown suffers under the rule of an impudent immortal who's taken over entirely, and he has to look deep within himself to conquer his own demons as well as one who affronts his hometown. It sounds just as interesting as the title. Highlander, this guy. Hi, I'm Hans. Uh, and then there was Highlander Reunion, which is a short film um in 2008 starring uh Mythos, Joe, and Amanda. Uh that one was not official, but you can still get it. Um, and it it it's basically like them going, hey man, remember when we were in Highlander? That was cool. Uh, the good old days. It's kind of sad. And then, of course, there was, and I had forgotten this existed, but Highlander the animated series.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Seven centuries have passed since the Earth. Plunged into darkness. Seven centuries since the jetitor swore to regain from man his lost knowledge and freedom. All the immortals took the oath, all except one, who dominates the world. But soon an immortal will come to confront him. His name is Quentin McLeod. He is the Highlander.

Fan Films Cartoons Anime Oddities

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

From 19. It's very similar to the Flash Gordon thing. Yeah. 94 to 96. So this comes out the same year that Highlander the Final Dimension is in theaters and Highlander the series is on TV. This is an in this is peak Highlander fever. They had toys, they had uh tie-ins with stuff, apparently. But it completely ignores the canon set up by the s the show. And and in it, which is bizarre, Connor is killed before he even fights Kirken. And this movie then, just like the source, fast forwards to like 500 years in the future, um, where immortals have all agreed to a truce for some reason to stop fighting, and then once everyone else has taken this oath, it's unbreakable, it's like uh like an enchantment. But a Kurgan knockoff named Cortan at least they kept the K. They kept the K thing. He takes the unbreakable truce as uh his like opportunity to seize power, which doesn't really make a lot of sense. And then he becomes like the unchallenged ruler of Earth until several centuries go by, and new the new immortal Quentin McLeod. Quentin McLeod, ladies and gentlemen. There's something in the water in Glen Shinnon, man, in on the Lock Shield.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Well, it's it's just like uh just like in the anime that I'm sure we'll get to, where it's Colin McLeod. Colin McLeod, that's right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:58

And it's like also 500 years in the future. So Quentin McLeod's mentor is Vincente Ramirez, who's apparently related to I don't know how this would even work. It doesn't even make sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:11

This reminds me of like when they made like a Rambo cartoon or a RoboCup cartoon where these are like hey, yeah hey kids, have you been watching the thing you shouldn't have been watching? Well, here's a cartoon for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:23

I was just thinking about that yesterday because I was thinking about the Toxic Avenger cartoon. And I'm like, why are kids watching this? Like who Yeah, the Rambo series. God, I forgot about that. Yeah. Oh man. I I hope it also uh thanks the uh Moisha Dean in the Rambo series. It's big, it's big in Afghanistan, the Rambo TV show.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:43

Oh, just so you know, uh that Connor McLeod in the far future, uh he still has just a button-up shirt and an overcoat. It's the 27th century, but Brooks Brothers is still king, yeah.

Reboot Tease And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_03 1:09:00

The funny thing about the the animated show is that one of the things that spawned was, and this ties it back to the beginning, an Atari Jaguar game called Highlander The Last of the McLeods. Oof. Yeah. Never played it, but I'm gonna try and find one. Uh, and there's a fan-animated one called the Mythos Chronicles. It's actually played by Peter Wingfeld, who who played Mythos. Who had nothing else to do? Um then, of course, yes, uh, the anime Highlander The Search for Vengeance in 2007. It's a good movie. I I think it's one of the better in the in the franchise. Yeah. No, I mean maybe the second best? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's not like the greatest thing in the world, but it's better than Islander 3.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

I mean, it's made by the same people who did Ninja Skull and Vampire Hunter D. Um, it definitely has that vibe, uh, that aesthetic the whole way through. Which is a great aesthetic to use for Highlander.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:56

Yeah, the animation's great, and the once again it's a post-apocalyptic future where the immortals are wandering to wastelands or whatever. I don't know why they keep doing this. Nobody gives a sh. Just stop it with that. It's basically the last movie. There's a stupid YouTube show that uses the action figures uh make it a comedy, it's like sitcom thank of the Connor and Duncan show. And then, of course, they've been saying they're gonna reboot the franchise for, I don't know, like 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

Which is something we will most certainly get into the next time you hear us.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

1993. It has been six years since the death of Brenda Wyatt, the wife of Connor McLeod. It has been six months since the death of Tesser Noel. If you don't say a Duncan McLeod, the Highlanders reunite to make amends and begin happier times. No one has ever known they could do a Highlander show on YouTube. Until now.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

Please go away.