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Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
A Geek Culture Podcast - Two life-long Nerds explain, critique and poke fun at the major pillars of Geek Culture for your listening pleasure.
Dispatch Ajax! Podcast
Disclosure
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In a break from our mini-series we’re taking a hard look at why UFO disclosure and UAP transparency keep feeling “right around the corner” while delivering almost nothing on which people can agree. Along the way we touch the viral political chatter, the shifting tone from outright denial to careful acknowledgment, and the way the internet turns every half-statement into proof of a hidden program.
A 1947 Sighting And A Joke
SPEAKER_00This was their home in July of 1947. And one summer evening they were sitting out here. Dad looked up in the west and saw an object that came down and had lights blinking and it was rather frightening to him, but instead all of a sudden it seemed to rock a little bit and sort of counterbalance itself, wiggle a little bit, and then seemed to settle down and take off at a rapid rate of speed.
SPEAKER_05Gentlemen, let's rotten our minds.
SPEAKER_07Disclosure. Or a rival. Or communion.
SPEAKER_06Those are three very different concepts.
SPEAKER_07Three things that have never happened in my kitchen.
SPEAKER_06Or did they? It's hard to say. We'll never know the whole truth. You know what? I think that perfectly encapsulates the rest of this podcast.
What People Mean By Disclosure
SPEAKER_07Welcome back to Dispatch HX. I'm Skip. I'm Jake. And today we're going to be talking about what seems like an amorphous concept, but is increasingly relevant, even though it seems to have made the actual audience to which it is designed perfectly more jaded and cynical than ever before. We're talking about disclosure. Disclosure, of course, is a 1994 film directed by Barry Levinson, written by Michael Crichton, and it's pretty easy to tell. It's extremely cringy, and it's about reverse sexual sexual harassment.
SPEAKER_06So uh wasn't that uh Michael Douglas and Ooh, ooh, can I can I get this off the top of my head?
SPEAKER_07I know you can. Oh shit. She was G.I. Jane. She sure was. That's why Will Smith slapped Chris Rock. The Oscars two years ago. What does that have to do with disclose disclosure? I think I'm thinking of the wrong actress, maybe? No, Chris Rock was referencing G.I. Jane when he was talking about Jada Pink and Smith.
SPEAKER_06Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_07Gotcha.
SPEAKER_06I was missing the connected material there.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. But yes, you're on the right path. Same actors. Funny that you don't mention the substance. Her most recent. I know.
SPEAKER_06I do I I could mention striptease, though.
SPEAKER_07The pseudo comeback for uh Burt Reynolds. The soft comeback. Boogie Knights was his better one. Pre-Boogie Nights or It was around the same time. Because I remember his comeback happening, and then I remember both those movies coming up relatively close to each other being like, I guess this is who he is now. Right.
SPEAKER_06The burdening, as it were.
SPEAKER_07And then he ended up ironically playing Boss Hogg in the fucking Dukes of Hazzard movie, which is awful.
SPEAKER_06Oh, don't you get it, folks?
SPEAKER_07Uh full circle.
SPEAKER_06People going to that film had no concept of the show.
SPEAKER_07Or Smokey and the Bandit, apparently.
SPEAKER_06No. Yes, it's Demi Moore. Demi Moore, that's right. Yes. I it was there.
SPEAKER_07Not like Demi Lovato. Demi Moore.
SPEAKER_06Uh not demi-sec.
SPEAKER_07She's not a demigod of any sort.
SPEAKER_06If someone asks you if you're demi more, you say yes.
SPEAKER_07Especially if you've been treated with the substance. No, we're talking actually today about the idea of disclosure. Everybody's talking about it. All the kids are talking about disclosure. It's all happening. Well, I'm transitioning now.
SPEAKER_06Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_07Alright. Yeah. The disclosure thing is happening, right? Isn't it? Everybody's excited about it?
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_07Marco Rubio's in charge of it now. Isn't that really cool?
SPEAKER_06Let me throw some of this out.
SPEAKER_07Okay.
SPEAKER_06So recently, former President Obama was talking with a podcaster and told him that aliens were real. Mm-hmm. Now, he later clarified that it was in reference to the odds of life being elsewhere in the galaxy. Sure, that's what we'll go with. Now, whether that is truly what he meant or not, our com over in chief felt outmaneuvered and possibly let the truth slip, blurting out that Obama wasn't supposed to do that because that was classified information. Okay. Seeming to lend credence to the widely held belief that aliens or extraterrestrial biological entities, or non-human intelligence, or whatever you'd like to refer to them as, are not only extant, but known and hidden. He then announced the next day that he was directing the government to quote unquote begin the process of identifying and releasing government files related to alien and extraterrestrial life, unidentified aerial phenomena, or UAP, and unidentified flying objects, UFOs. You don't need to say they're both the same thing. So I'm sure we will all be receiving dossiers in the mail about the Roswell recovery, Eisenhower's deals with the Greys, and our advanced UFO reverse engineered black triangles. But I won't be holding my breath. This isn't the first time that supposed info was to be released or congressional hearings being held. But disclosure that hallowed and hoped for potential paradise of UFO buffs and conspiraces alike has been out of reach. But with the supposed info dump coming and the approach of Spielberg's latest foray into the world of aliens, of course, Close Encounters, E.T., War of the Worlds, and kind of Crystal Skull. His new film, Disclosure Day, he utilizes the charged buzzword and has the community's appetite wetted. Is it about aliens? Is it about time travel? Is it about ultra-terrestrials? Is it soft disclosure via the media? Or is it even a psyop? Only time will tell. But before we get to that fateful day, what is disclosure? It's for you to start talking now.
SPEAKER_07Oh, well then I should have mentioned that it was a movie by Barry Levinson. Disclosure is the idea that all of the covert secret intelligence and operations the United States government has been either complicit in or actively running since ostensibly the Roswell incident in 1947.
SPEAKER_03If there has been a UFO cover-up, it began in Roswell, New Mexico. Near White Sands and Alamogordo, Roswell was home base for many early tests of atom bombs and guided missiles. Here also, the practice of military stonewalling may have been perpetrated.
SPEAKER_07That all of the psyops, misinformation campaigns, disinformation campaigns, but also secret experiments, research, experimentation, that one day all of these truths will be revealed. En masse, or I think is more commonly considered in the uh ufology community, in stages, so as to not shock the world all at once. And with the release of certain videos and incidents by the United States military in the last few years, there's definitely been a shift in policy about how to treat these things. Because it used to be just denial, denial, denial publicly. And now it's done a 180 and has been like, no, this stuff's real, we don't know what it is, we might as well show you because now everybody has a smartphone. Which could mean that they know that their grip on these secrets is slipping because of the way that information is disseminated in today's society. Or it could be that it's an extension of the active discreditation, false flag, slash wag the dog type stuff that the US government has been doing since 1947. Being like, well, now we're being honest. Here, we don't know what this is, so as to distract from the actual information they know or don't know about extraterrestrial life or being visited by UFOs or or a crash in Roswell.
SPEAKER_06There wouldn't be anything hidden. There would be no secret occult knowledge that it would all be out there.
SPEAKER_07Yep.
SPEAKER_06And we'd all have access to it. We'd all know the truth.
SPEAKER_07An awakening.
Hidden Knowledge And The Cult Reflex
SPEAKER_07Oh boy. A great awakening? As it were. And that kind of concept obviously goes back throughout human history. Anytime that a society finds itself listless or or in decline or in some way not as homogeneous as it had been previously, there will be these doomsday says, uh usually it's like a cult leader or a religious sect who talks about how there will be a moment of reawakening to get back to that which we once were, which probably never existed, but is the classic trope of fascism and and so are you equating doomsday prophecy with disclosure? I think it's the same kind of mindset. I don't think it's the same group of people who would necessarily believe in it, but I think it does tick some of the boxes psychologically.
SPEAKER_06I mean, is it one about freedom while the other is about control? I mean, in its purest, most idealized fashion.
SPEAKER_07I think it it it's not even about what information is actually being disseminated. I th I think this is a trope that has existed throughout human culture where the idea of hidden knowledge and that hidden knowledge being able to overcome the ills of modern society, because everyone's bought in, they believe in the system, and yet also inherently know the system is flawed and fucking them over, and so instead of completely negating their belief system, the sought-after reveal is the thing that will heal society and bring everything back to the ideal in which they believe should be anyway, if it weren't for these other ills. It just ticks a lot of the same psychological boxes. Not to say that doomsday prophecy and disclosure are the same, though there have been crossovers and parallels. It's more that for believers, it's kind of the same stuff. It it hits the same dopamine centers, essentially. Well, hmm.
SPEAKER_06I you know what, I'm gonna push back on that, because I actually don't believe that to be the case. Interesting. I understand where you're coming from. I think the Venn diagram does overlap in spots, but I don't think there is an inherent utopian principle that derives from disclosure, this mythical disclosure point. But I don't know how relevant it is to combine Jim Jones or Heaven's Gate, equating them to people who are searching for the truth about something that has been again and again lied to them by the people in government and in power. We all know that the most powerful people in the world do have hidden things. They are in charge of large swaths of information that we do not have access to. It seems odd that you would put those two together.
SPEAKER_07Well not to in any way, shape, or form demean or throw shade on ufologists or any anybody in the disclosure community, because that's that's not my intention. It's more that the idea that there's a fundamental flaw in the universe, whether it's the church is lying to us, the government's lying to us, somebody's lying to us because things aren't the way they're exactly, which is why it persists, because yes, those things are true. Right.
SPEAKER_06But you said that's so much different than like you need to drink the Kool-Aid because you're gonna go to heaven with me.
SPEAKER_07You know what I mean? The sort of final stage of cults is different, yes. But the initial attraction to the idea that there is a bigger truth out there that is just being hidden by today's world, I think is the same. And the want to be validated by disclosure, that's where a lot of cults go wrong. It's good why cults never really work out, is because their premise wasn't, well, somebody's gonna come down from the sky and land on the White House lawn, and then we're all gonna agree that we were right the whole time. They knew fundamentally deep down somewhere that they knew they were full of shit, and so you have to kill everyone so that you're never revealed as a fraud, and so that you don't have to live with the idea that everything you've been saying is wrong, and people will go along with that.
SPEAKER_06But I think that's a bit of discounting like the belief strong enough to commit suicide. I don't think people do that just so they generally people will not kill themselves or kill others, just to like we don't want to show that we're wrong.
SPEAKER_07What do you think about disclosure? What do I think about disclosure? Why don't you tell me the name of the movie you want to see?
SPEAKER_06It's called Rochelle Rochelle.
SPEAKER_07You have selected Agent Zero.
SPEAKER_06No, Rochelle Rochelle. It's about a young woman's erotic journey from Milan to Minsk. So if you were to ask me what disclosure is, I think it was simply breakdown to the wholesale release of knowledge about and of extraterrestrials or any type of non-human intelligence being released to the public and all things therein.
SPEAKER_07You don't think GFK assassination and MK Ultra and everything fit into um disclosure?
SPEAKER_06If you just say disclosure, I don't think it's necessarily about those kind of side things. We're not going to find out more information about the shooter who quote took a shot at Trump, which would theoretically be part of large-scale disclosure. But when you just say the word disclosure in this context and the way that it is seen out on the internet, I think it is in specific reference to disclosure about non-human entities. I think if you said MLK disclosure, that's a specific thing.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I think that's what's accepted. I think there are big camps that, or at least the Venn diagram overlaps a lot, I think with Oh, I mean it is disclosure, but I don't think it's disclosure with a big D, if that makes sense. It's no Willem Dafoe disclosure.
SPEAKER_06The biggest disclosure. Confusing. Uh a Holmesian disclosure, if you might say.
SPEAKER_07There are, I think, big swaths of I don't want to use the word conspiracy because that's been sullied over the last several years, but the the disclosure community, I think there are overlaps between those who look for JFK cover-up, MK Ultra.
SPEAKER_06It's truth-seeking in its basis form. I mean, I don't think there's anybody who wants to know about the truth of alien retrievals would be opposed to the shooter on the grassy knoll. Oh no. But I think if someone just brings up disclosure in a discussion, I don't think they're talking about other government cover-ups.
SPEAKER_07Right. I do know the I don't want to phrase it like that, that is also part of the UFO community that believes in disclosure. Yeah. But it's about government lies and cover-up and and what have you.
SPEAKER_06Or people who quote would be above government, right. Secret organizations, the mega wealthy, those in power.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, the Bilderbergs, the Trilateral Commission, the Right.
SPEAKER_06And I also think disclosure is very different than true outright alien interaction. So a UFO landing on the White House lawn, ETs coming out to say, you know, take me to your leader. That is not disclosure. No, that's just something that happened.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Yes. Yeah, disclosure is what we know so far, what we've already done, either what we've witnessed, we've covered up, what we've engineered, what we've lied about, what we haven't lied about. Basically everything that the United States government and the military industrial complex at large has kept hidden the facts of those scenarios would be revealed. And we'll drill down into some of this, but a lot of it, I think, is fueled. The want and belief of this, a lot of it is fueled by the fact that it's well known that the United States government has covered certain things up, but also done false flags or done misinformation and disinformation as deflection of some sort of other program or objective. We found that out very publicly when they revealed the the stealth bomber, which was essentially developed at a black ops site, being a secret weapon, a next generation ship that whose existence the government denied vehemently, even though it had been seen, and may or may not be the progenitor for the triangle-shaped spacecraft that people have been reported seeing for decades.
SPEAKER_06The Aurora Project?
SPEAKER_07Yes. They were like, no, this doesn't exist. All of you are idiots, you're all crazy, and then by the way, here's this thing. We were lying about it the whole time, and here it is. That really fuels this whole narrative because it's like what is disinformation and misinformation and what is real. And so the desire to finally clear that up and have accountability and transparency, well, at least transparency, probably never accountability, for anything that has been perpetrated on the United States or others in the world on behest of the United States government, I think is at the heart of disclosure. And I think people come to disclosure the want for disclosure for different reasons. I think there are different motivations depending on who you are and what you're looking for. Some people want accountability for things that have been bad, that things are horrible things that we've done. Other people just want to know the truth about the nature of life in the universe. It is a diverse crowd, but it all starts with this nebulous but still oddly specific idea. And then there's the ones who want to know about Vrill and get to the center of the earth, and that's that's unfortunately a whole wing of it too.
SPEAKER_06Which may or may not be related. Again, it all depends how far the rabbit hole goes. There's the difference between there are ETs that look similar to us. They've been visiting, we have had contact with them, that's it. And then there's further high strangeness that goes all over the map. The things you can't even imagine. Science fiction at its at its greatest height. What's real and what isn't.
Roswell Reports And Muddied Waters
SPEAKER_06I mean, that gets further into even if we were told things, would any of that be true? And if disclosure does happen, would we believe it? For me personally, I don't see how you could. Yeah, I agree. Just judging by history.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, because do you remember in the 90s, people forget that the Roswell incident was largely forgotten by mainstream society until what was it, like the eighties and nineties? People had forgotten it was even a thing, and then was sort of brought up in pop culture, and then it just reinserted itself on a national scale, and then there was the official government line, which at first was that flying saucers are real, by the way, put out by the Air Force, and then retracted and restated that it was a weather balloon. And then in the 90s, when you know interest in Roswell peaked again, but not entirely because of, but also partially because of the X-Files, there was this resurgence in demand of the truth, and so the government put out another revised statement about the incident at Roswell, in which they revealed that it even more absurdly, that it was not just a weather balloon, but it was a weather balloon with mannequins inside like a durigible.
SPEAKER_02We're confident, once the report is out and digested by the public, that this will be the final word on the Roswell incident. The conclusion of the first report left no doubt that what was recovered near Roswell, New Mexico, in July 1947 was debris from a formerly top-secret Army Air Forces research project codenamed Mogul. Mogul was an attempt to acoustically detect Soviet nuclear blasts and ballistic missile launches. Mogul used an odd assortment of equipment carried aloft by a balloon train more than 600 feet long. This balloon train consisted of 25 balloons, attached acoustic devices, and several radar reflectors, which look like box kites. In 1947, it was the misidentification of these radar reflectors that is most likely the famous flying disc. Today we are releasing the final report to address questions about alleged bodies associated with the Roswell story. This report has four main conclusions. If you have your books, turn to page three. We'll have a lesson. One, Air Force activities which occurred over a period of many years have been consolidated and are now represented to have occurred in two or three days in July 1947. Two, bodies observed in the New Mexico Desert were probably test dummies that were carried aloft by U.S. Air Force high altitude balloons for scientific research.
SPEAKER_07Okay, now you've muddied the waters even further by putting out a statement that nobody believes, which I think is a calculated move. So that if disclosure ever did happen, even if rolled out slowly, it would be sort of incredulous. It's a perpetual machine that the government uses. And we can get into it, but that goes all the way back to Project Blue Book, which is the first initial investigation in the modern era in the United States about the possibility of alien or at least sightings of UAPs and UFOs.
SPEAKER_06It's PSYOP and disinfo turtles all the way down. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_07The CIA and the KGB have done more in the world of disinformation and misinformation than any empires in the history of the world. The insane stuff that the US and the USSR did to each other as PsyOps, which a lot of people have accused a lot of the UFO phenomenon stuff being vague on purpose to being a US Psyop to make the Soviet Union think we have special aircraft that they can't combat, which also happened to be true. Like with the stealth bomber. I mean that was the entire premise of the whole thing. Uh spy planes and things like that. A lot of times they would craft a story about UFOs and plant it in the media so that people would enough people would believe it and then enough people wouldn't believe it. So that it kept it vague. It's it's a lot easier to disguise these things with tales that kind of explain what people are saying, but not really, and then deny them than it is to just straight up deny anything because when people start believing what the mainstream believes is a an outlandish idea, it's a lot easier for people to believe the denial. Even if it's totally based in fact and reality. But the teasing of disclosure I think is a valuable tool in that sense for subterfuge and propaganda. It's not good for society. It's not good for anybody, but I think it is used to effect in the United States and has been since 1948 around.
SPEAKER_06Probably before then. And it's totally discounting the rest of human history where who knows how much history's been rewritten or things been covered up by the victors in particular skirmishes or battles or empires. And that gets out as as outlandish as you know the Vatican rewriting what we believe in major religions or the Tartarian myth, you know, of they erased entire civilizations. I don't believe that but is that that Russian one yes uh I think it's related to that. I think there's like a Russian mathematician who came up with a theory that they had added a thousand years to the timeline of humanity to explain various differences in battles and land ownership and part of this was the erasure of Tartaria.
SPEAKER_01The history we've all been taught is a massive lie and it's deeply unsettling. Before the civilization we have today there was another thriving civilization that was far more developed than us, the Tartarian Empire. A civilization significantly more advanced than us, capable of harnessing atmospheric energy. They succeeded in incorporating this into all of their buildings enabling them to generate free energy for everyone continuously this empire had also harnessed the power of frequencies allowing them to build grand architectural buildings by manipulating substances and moving huge rocks through vibrations such as the Great Pyramids and many other architectural structures. However in 1859 Edwin Drake created the first successful oil well and so the free energy was a massive threat to the oil industry. This led to the owners of the industry taking action on this and slowly wiped out this civilization from Asia, Europe and North America It's fun.
SPEAKER_06It's in my opinion pretty kooky and I don't buy any of it.
SPEAKER_07I do think there's this maybe misguided optimism that it'll happen through the you know the regular channels of government information.
Distrust, Epstein, And Public Belief
SPEAKER_07Right. I don't think that's gonna happen for varying reasons but I think the most recent example would be the complete deletion of incriminating things from the Epstein files.
SPEAKER_06I can only imagine as someone who's been deep relatively in the conspiracy world for decades for normies out there just finding out about some of the Epstein stuff depending on how they're even seeing it. It's not like they show a lot of stuff on your Fox News or your newsmax or your whatever. I think it's probably a well established idea in mainstream public discourse in America that there is information being hidden that is incriminating to wealthy elites and powerful people. I think if you combine that with the general thoughts of the American public over 50% in the most recent poll in the past year do believe not only do aliens exist, but they have traveled to Earth and made contact. Over 50% so pairing that an overwhelming belief not only in aliens but in actual contact along with our has to be innate distrust of the governmental system and that they will ever tell us the truth about damn near anything. Can't imagine why someone would truly buy into disclosure on that level.
SPEAKER_07Early even official investigations into let's say UFOs started out I think in earnest and then eventually morphed into an active discreditation program. Which I do believe led to the if not creation at least promotion of some incidents UFO incidents of abduction or sightings that the government either staged or decided not to discredit so that it would sow conflict in the UFO community or or just the culture at large as to whether or not they believe it's real what particular incidents do you have in mind that they chose not to discredit the Phoenix lights for instance they half-ass explain some of it they deny most of it and then they make fun of it. Right then they make fun of it and then they half ass explain what it might be. Nothing ever definitive nothing ever like concrete just like oh no it was probably orbital jumpers or whatever and it's like okay. There's a lot of stuff where when these kind of things come out these stories in the past this policy has very clearly shifted in the last few years. When stuff comes out on one hand you can say this is no credibility whatsoever I'm not going to even address it. But then on the other hand not addressing it fuels a lot of conspiracies and a lot of people who that they're hoping will believe in more and more ideas or concepts or look conspiracies that don't that most mainstream people don't believe in. It discredits it by not addressing it. I think it's a big part of the disinformation machine.
Hearings, Whistleblowers, Soft Disclosure
SPEAKER_07Even if it's something they put out themselves.
SPEAKER_06Do you think the post-Obama a lot of the congressional hearings and the different organizations to study UAPs and the supposed whistleblowers coming out who purport to bring evidence but then it it's really murky because one almost all of these figures are cloudy at best with their personal backgrounds and their bona fide days. They're Bob Lazars your Bob Lazars your Luis Elizondo's mm-hmm I mean we could run down a list of names honestly but I mean like you know then they come out with footage you know like oh it's captured from fighters like uh the Nimitz UAP you know or uh the different orb stuff and oh look we can't explain this but then there also are explanations given by the government of well this is this something else and this is the wind shears making it look like this and it's not actually going into the water it's a reflection blah blah blah. So it really just completely muddies the water but I do think it engenders this sense of possibility I think a lot of this kind of psyop stuff if one were to make long-term assumptions seems to lead more towards a what you might term soft disclosure where you're slowly methodically putting out bits and pieces of factual information about this occult knowledge to build up a base if you want to build your Lego Death Star you've got to start with your base layer you know and you build up and you build up and you build up so after decades and decades not only do we believe in aliens not only do we believe that our government is aware of the aliens but that uh you know they might be interacting with the aliens and whatnot it becomes less volatile that information and much more palatable to your general public. Softening the blow.
SPEAKER_07Yes. I think it is a big part of the strategy even though I don't think there is a cohesive strategy out of the there was an overarching idea but I think they were throwing a lot of shit at the wall and obviously they were because of Project Stargate and um looking glass where which again if any of you don't know what those things are I believe Project Stargate was the CIA's remote viewing program.
SPEAKER_06If you guys don't know what remote viewing is on the most basic level it is a meditative practice where you your consciousness can travel over distances in time to see other things.
SPEAKER_07Yeah which supposedly Lenin could do that was one of the biggest motivations for the the CIA investigating it.
SPEAKER_06You mean Lenin himself or like the KGB?
SPEAKER_07Actual VI Lenin. Oh I don't think I've ever heard that he claimed that he could be in other rooms and view other things that were going on simultaneously to his consciousness which I think was a thing that was put out there to fuck with the US right that also sounds like something other than remote viewing you can be physically present one thing but you're not observing two different things at the same time. It was essentially astral projection supposedly Lennon could do.
SPEAKER_06But with a with a split consciousness aspect?
SPEAKER_07In in a weird way kind of like not exactly like but in a in a uh a strange way like how Abraham Lincoln supposedly saw his doppelganger in his mirror. Extrasensory perception that Lennon had but he could be in other places at the same time. It's under the same sort of umbrella of the minute stare at goats and uh you know other yeah operations the CIA tried back in the day. Which were mostly based on rumors that that the KGB put out there that they thought were funny. Like that one where Stalin was creating that army of ape men. There was no way that was ever gonna be a thing. But US responded in kind.
SPEAKER_06And they probably were doing things on their own as well. I don't think it was all just they heard a rumor and they Oh no it was back and forth.
SPEAKER_07Yeah yeah and psychedelics it's just become a thing and so then you got into MKUltra which it's because of one or two guys that thought that they could use chemicals for mind control.
MKUltra, Gerald Ford, And Selective Truth
SPEAKER_07Actually I'd like to talk a little bit about MKUltra if they're not necessarily created for the same reasons, obviously, but I do think they have similarities in that there was this idea about mind control that they thought well specifically during the Korean War there are these Air Force pilots that were shot down over Korea and I'm sure there was abuse and there was torture but the idea was that these soldiers had been shown what Korea was actually like as opposed to the propaganda they were given by the United States and so then they went on TV and were like actually it's not that bad here people get fed medicine's cool like everything's alright and the reaction of the US military and the US government was well that can't possibly be true. Communism can't possibly work so they have to have been mind control. Then the US went in this enormous rabbit hole about mind control.
SPEAKER_06You do not believe in any mind control or altering of people's perceptions to enact them to do particular tasks?
SPEAKER_07In those particular scenarios no I don't think that's the case at all. But I do believe in MKUltra which was the CIA's response to that scenario. I actually looked up a lot of the history of the doctors that that were big at MKUltra there was a lot of legitimate stuff there where they well supposedly legitimate stuff where like the US government captured certain people and then they admitted they were working for the Soviets but they were uh being dosed with LSD by this doctor so it's is that true or not? But mind control as we know it is not quite what we want to assign it to.
SPEAKER_06It's not like Manchurian candidate?
SPEAKER_07Yeah it's not Manchurian candidate. It's it's it's it's w you can torture someone and you can influence someone but you can't really dose them chemically or put them under a spell or whatever. It's not really how it works.
SPEAKER_06Can I uh ask you something? Mm-hmm isn't this exactly what they want you to believe that breaks down across the board with like everything that we talk about it's all muddied. Right because sometimes it's true to to say like well I believe in this and I don't believe in that the evidence says this but how can like at this point anyone say realistically whatever the government or the science we've been shown points one way or the other because they obviously wouldn't show you the things that would point the other way they wouldn't want it out there right? If those things didn't work they would use them.
SPEAKER_07If you ask conspiracy theorists they are using them and they have been used. What MKUltra did was it got us the unibomber and it got us Charles Manson. It didn't get us a super spy it didn't get us a Manturian candidate. Publicly released those were active participants in MKUltra and the reason that I bring that up very specifically is one of the biggest I think impedances in the history of disclosure is Gerald Ford. He's a pretty great example of releasing some things to make yourself look legitimate and then not releasing other things to prove our point that they don't ever release the actual truth or and at least we're never gonna believe that they release the actual truth. In November of 1953 Frank Olsen scientist researching biological warfare in the US Army fell from his tenth floor window at the Manhattan Statler Hotel and died. Turns out the entire time he was working for the CIA he was being quietly secretly dosed with LSD daily and was losing grip on reality. Twenty years later Gerald Ford personally met with Olsen's family in public on camera to offer his apologies. And Olsen's family was convinced that their father's death was not a result of whatever bullshit was put out at the time nervous breakdown alcoholism whatever but that he was murdered to keep secret the program that he was unbeknownst to have been participating. Errol Morris does a relatively decent miniseries on this. But Gerald Ford goes out of his way to make this public to seem like they're being transparent also altered the final report of the quote independent 1975 Rockefeller Commission which investigated the CIA's domestic activities which were illegal including MKUltra. These are things that are actually completely public now. He suppressed the results they removed an entire 86 page section of the CIA assassination plot summary that they had created and Dick Cheney who was Ford's chief of staff at the time signed off on this and had a bunch of handwritten notes all over the files then Ford went out of his way to pass on these materials to the church committee which was set up as well to investigate CIA reckonations. Then don't forget Gerald Ford was on the Warren Commission the committee designed specifically to look into the JFK assassination. Ford was the front facing chair of that committee who came out and said that the Warren Commission found no evidence of any conspiracy foreign or domestic quote the commission decided. Even though in since released documentation there were tons of different rabbit holes to fall down that they completely ignored on purpose. So the guy that actually did the biggest disclosure I think honestly of the 20th century by admitting that MKUltra was real and the stuff they were doing was real also covered up the biggest conspiracies of the 20th century. If that's what we get out of disclosure how could we possibly trust an actual disclosure event?
SPEAKER_06That's just what they give to us. I mean right if you dig down deep it's all tangled up in disinformation. Oh absolutely how can anything put out there be trusted based on the agencies, the track record and the inflammatory impact of what's at stake I mean just look at the June 2025 Wall Street Journal report that for decades
Yankee Blue And Disinfo Inside The Ranks
SPEAKER_06the U.S. Air Force ran a massive systematic disinformation program that deliberately deceived many senior military officers into believing the government possessed advanced technology created by aliens. Reportedly Air Force officers were told they were being read into a program codenamed Yankee Blue purported top secret initiative to reverse engineer spacecraft from ETs. Now they were shown fabricated photographs of otherworldly vehicles they signed non-disclosure agreements under a threat of severe penalties and were told that they were privy some of the nation's and the world's most closely guarded secrets but none of it was real. Officers were taken to secure facilities where they were presented with information that had been quote classified at the highest levels. Their presentations looked authentic had proper classification markings, official formatting, briefers and uniforms using the correct terminology and protocols. Officers were told this was real intelligence gathered over decades about humanity's contact with NIHs. They were shown materials that they were told came from crash sites such as Roswell and other locations. Some briefings allegedly included details about alien biology propulsion systems that defied physics and secret facilities where this technology was still being studied. According to Wall Street Journal sources this practice ran for decades. It is alleged that began in the 1980s and continued at least up until 2023 when the AARO's historical review uncovered it and the Pentagon quietly ordered it stopped. Supposedly it was all part of a decades long hazing ritual. The journal reported that the AARO had uncovered the practice during its historical review and planned to expose it publicly in the 2024 report but the Air Force intervened and that its closures were scrubbed. The Pentagon promised that a follow-up volume would be released later in 2025 that would reveal the full story. Guess what? That report never came. Shocker if they were willing to do that inside the military for decades pulling the wool over their eyes about what is or is not real how could we ever possibly believe what they would say to us?
SPEAKER_07I
Why Real Disclosure Breaks Reality
SPEAKER_07agree. I I think disclosure is is a sadly unattainable what people want out of disclosure I don't think would ever really happen. I don't think it would really work ever because one way or another based on the actions that have already happened and the mistrust that is was intentionally garnered during that entire area that ty that entire period after uh Roswell was half disinformation and I just don't think that disclosure could ever be what anyone wants it to be. I think it's a pipe dream. Even if they did it I don't think it would work.
SPEAKER_06There would be too many people who didn't believe it. Plus I mean I think what your general John Q public would think of disclosure is that finally they're gonna show us the the reports they're gonna show us the alien saucers that were down that we've been trying to figure out that alien autopsy video from the 90s was real and that this is how they are but they still live on the planet where there are none here etc etc we just had communication but if they were just to say that the rabbit hole goes so much deeper and at what point you'd be like okay well they said that but what about this you know yeah yeah they they showed us UFO specs but what about ultraterrestrials you know which essentially the idea that aliens and UFOs are like interdimensional you know it goes out of the way to avoid the the problems with extraterrestrials one with extraterrestrial contacts there's always been a lot of issues like one how are they traveling such a long distance how does the biology work how do the physics work you know there's a lot of weird things that are associated with both contact events abduction events strange phenomena are surrounded by you know UAP activity um whether that be like balls of light or actual seeming craft but you can explain a lot of that with the ultra terrestrial hypothesis that they are from other dimensions they are coexisting with us at the same time but we are not necessarily privy to their existence unless they make it so but that's that's so much weirder than just you know a Martian coming from Mars.
SPEAKER_07That's one of the worst parts about disclosure is that even if there was full disclosure there'd be a huge chunk of the population that just wouldn't buy it. Because it wouldn't live up to their expectations and I just don't I I don't think there's any way around that. Even if full disclosure happened how many people would so many people wouldn't just be like well now my entire worldview has changed that I put into this for 30 years or whatever. Like it's just not that's just not how it's gonna work. I don't even know how you do disclosure without it being like a huge build up and I know that's part of the theories in ufology about how like soft disclosure through media and like softening people up and uh the whole thing. I still don't think even that's enough. To have real disclosure and do and make it work you'd have to Do so much to build up society to it that it would basically take an alien landing on the White House lawn. And even then, I don't know that a huge number of people would believe it.
SPEAKER_06I mean, at this point, it's tough to believe what your eyes tell you anymore. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's across the board. But if non-human intelligence, even if it's terrestrial or extraterrestrial, or interdimensional, or from a different time or a different plane of existence, from heaven or hell or whatever, that cracks the egg. Nothing is the same. Nope. Never. Never again. It's it's complete, turns everything on its head. Which I mean you you can see, like if a if you were in power and you wanted to stay in power, you would keep that secret. One, because you might have access to their power on some rudimentary level. But two, it's all out the window. Culture, be it science, be it religion, be it our money system, the way we interact with each other, the way humans look at other humans. It's all different. It's a complete paradigm shift that you can never fully come out of. What are you just gonna go to work the next day? Like everything's the same? Uh what what does this mean about God, which a vast majority of humanity in some form believes in? What does this mean about petroleum reserves? What does this mean about the value of the dollar? It's it's it's all gone. It's all all shifted, all changed. And how do you contain that? You know, how do you wrangle that? How do you ride that that axis flip and still maintain power? I don't think you can. No, would you have to unless you are the one who has access to all of that and you are doling it out, which again, depending on what you believe, depending on what's been disclosed, you know, there have been different documents that have said that it's some of our technology that has come from reverse engineering. You know, whether it's uh microwaves or uh fiber optic cables or advanced circuitry, some people in the conspiracy land, they believe that AI is actually like an open doorway to non-human intelligences and demons that are funneling both uh information and and the technology so that we go to the singularity, so they can, I don't know, take over or commune with that next entity. I you know, it gets out there, but the fact that disclosure is is the bomb. We are left in in a crater. Humanity is not the same, which and I would say probably your favorite piece of fiction that is the true uh changing point when Zephyr Cochran meets the the Vulcans, yeah, you know, that that changes humanity. We are no longer fighting amongst ourselves. There's a there's a higher purpose, there's a greater calling. There's more something like us out there.
SPEAKER_07But even in that scenario, it's like it was because they were in a very specific situation where they could deal with that, they could actually rebuild with that. Otherwise, it probably wouldn't have it would have fizzled out. It would have been in you know they had almost no governments left. They were complete chaos and they were looking for direction, and that changed their views of reality. In other scenarios, that probably wouldn't happen that way.
SPEAKER_06No. I think the great unifier is the unknown. Like if that was to happen, nobody really knows how it would go.
SPEAKER_07Right. It's more advantageous at this point for the government to never reveal anything, no matter how much is true or not, because the only way to really, you know, maintain that power and that control is to keep that knowledge vague, to be the ones that have the ability to release that knowledge, whether it's real or not. Because the world might fall apart if that knowledge is released, and if that knowledge or if those ideas aren't true, then at least you have control over that narrative and keep people guessing. It's the only way really to maintain power. Disclosure is not in it's not something that it favors those in power. It never probably never has.
SPEAKER_06All the more reason it will never happen.
SPEAKER_07Right. And even if it does, would we believe it?
SPEAKER_06But maybe the movie will tell us, huh?
SPEAKER_07Finally, Spielberg will settle it once and for all.
SPEAKER_06Again, let's go back to the conspiracy theory, the soft disclosure, the inner narrative that he is the mouthpiece for those in power to soften the hardened minds uh against the the alien existence.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, that's why there was such a long gap between E.T. and disclosure day.
SPEAKER_06But I mean, he had other things in there.
SPEAKER_07I know, I'm just saying, like, okay.
SPEAKER_06Oh, well I mean if they had their newer directors and producers, they had to get in the pipeline too.
SPEAKER_07Arrival is a great movie about this, actually. How it actually would work. Because they don't do disclosure, it just happens. Great film.
SPEAKER_06Are there any disclosure films? No, I mean But I mean I it's not a very cinematic thing usually. But nobody's there is no film where the government released files that aliens are real. It's only the the aliens show up to interact with us, show up to kill us, or inside the power structures of the world and are pulling the strings.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_06And then the the end is the exposing of them, but not via some congressional hearings.
SPEAKER_07No, even though realistically that definitely would happen. But no, that's not that's not how those narratives go at all. No. You never see Independence Day.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. The closest thing we have is contact, I guess, right? And even that they hide it.
SPEAKER_07That's true. Because we don't even know if they believe in God. So moment from contact for everyone.
Spielberg, Ratings, And An Art Bell Coda
SPEAKER_07So I guess our takeaway is that.
SPEAKER_06What was your thesis for this particular episode, Skipper?
SPEAKER_07Originally, I just wanted to talk about the idea of disclosure, what it is, why it's in the in the zeitgeist, how it is a particular phenomenon. I mean, there is a lot of discourse at at the very least in the ufology community about disclosure happening soon, which is sort of like led to the fervor that Steven Spielberg seems to have gotten caught up in.
SPEAKER_06Well, I mean, if anything, just ride that wave. It gets people talking. It gets the people in the know intrigued. Especially when since it's been so secretive, which I think is only like thrown fuel on the fire of the conspiracists.
SPEAKER_07100%. The more secret you keep it, the more you deny it or don't mention it, the more it's definitely like people are gonna pick up on it. Be like, Well, they didn't say it about this. So it becomes even more conspiratorial. Without actually having to do anything.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, no, I mean you can just put the name on it and it's like it gets people intrigued. Especially in today's theatrical going experience as a director, as a producer, as a studio, you you need every leg up you can get.
SPEAKER_08Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_07A lot of people feel like we're on the tipping point of of disclosure. Like disclosure is imminent. I don't think either of us think that's true. I don't think that's even close to being true. I think there's just been a shift in policy in the way that they discuss this topic in the government. But I don't think disclosure is any closer to any to happening. No matter what, it's just not gonna happen.
SPEAKER_06Nope.
SPEAKER_07Not at all.
SPEAKER_06Be fun if it did! Oh well it'd be something. Complete societal collapse, but uh, I think we're due for a change, right?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things that drives this. People are restless, they know something's wrong with the world, and maybe the hidden knowledge is gonna change it for everyone. I wouldn't put money on that. Who knows? Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The shadow knows.
SPEAKER_06The Shadow. The Shadow's got an idea about this. I was gonna mention Jon Heinek's like quote. I don't remember word for word, but essentially, like he said they'll highlight communism, something to go against, then they'll highlight terrorism, and then they'll point to something else, and then the last card they'll play is uh aliens and their threat. It's all a lie.
SPEAKER_07That's coming off the dome, so they came for the communists, and I wasn't worried because I wasn't a communist, and they came for the socialists, and they and I wasn't worried because I wasn't a socialist. Yeah. That's what he's riffing on there.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I guess thanks for listening to our quite hard disclosure discussion. Finally, someone does hard disclosure. Puts it right out there. Maybe we'll revisit this if aliens haven't landed on the White House lawn at that point. But until that day, if you wouldn't mind like, share, and subscribing, please rate us. Oh let's see, let's see. I got it. I know what to do. Let me pull this up. So as I was doing my wide and varied research for this, um I found something called the Galactic Anthropology site.
SPEAKER_07Oh, hello.
SPEAKER_06And it is a supposed collection of all of the different races uh that have visited Earth. Oh good. Or that are out there. Oh man, it's people from Mars returning to Mars. Finally. What was what was taking them so long? They should give us five blue avians uh on the podcast app of their choice. If you don't know, they are Oh, somebody watched Avatar. They are from the Betelgeist star system. Beetlejuice! Uh, one of the species are called the Koray, and they are described as hybrids of the lawn humanoids and local species.
SPEAKER_07Ah, of course. Yep. You always hear about that on the radio.
SPEAKER_06If you wouldn't mind uh giving us five blue avians on the podcast app of your choice, I do the Apple Podcast. Best way for guest us to get heard and thus seen, we'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you for coming on this hopefully not too bumpy of a ride through disclosure land.
SPEAKER_07It's been a journey.
SPEAKER_06But on until mom and dad yell at each other some more about what our government will or will not tell us. Skip, what should they do?
SPEAKER_07Um, well, they should probably argue with their best friends about religion for some ungodly reason. They should probably pay their tabs to get uh you know their shit together in general, as people tip their wait staff, their bartenders, their KJs, their DJs, their podcasters, and supports our local comic shops and retailers. And from Dispatch Ajax, we would like to say, no matter where you go, there you are.
SPEAKER_04Hello, Art. Yeah. Hi. Um I I I I don't have a whole lot of uh time.
SPEAKER_05Um Well look look, let's begin by finding out whether you're using this line properly or not.
SPEAKER_04Area 51.
SPEAKER_05Were you an employee or are you now?
SPEAKER_04Uh I a former employee. Former employee. I was let go on a medical discharge about a week ago. And I was kind of running back across the country um and I don't know where to start. They're gonna um try to play on this position really, really soon.
SPEAKER_05I didn't spend a lot of time on those, so give us something quick.
SPEAKER_04Okay, um, um okay, well what we're thinking of as as aliens are they're uh they're they're extra-dimensional beings that an earlier precursor of the um space program made contact with uh they they are not what they claim to be. Uh they have infiltrated a lot of uh a lot of aspects of of of military establishment, particularly the Area 51. Uh the disasters that are coming, I the the militar I'm sorry, the the government knows about them. And there's a lot of safe areas in this world that they could begin moving the population to now are they're not doing they're not doing it. They are not! They want those major population centers wiped out so that the the few that are left will be more easily controllable.