Outspoken Voices - a Podcast for LGBTQ+ Families

Answering Tough Questions

June 18, 2019 Episode 40
Outspoken Voices - a Podcast for LGBTQ+ Families
Answering Tough Questions
Chapters
Outspoken Voices - a Podcast for LGBTQ+ Families
Answering Tough Questions
Jun 18, 2019 Episode 40
Family Equality
Two parents and a queerspawn discuss funny, random, and tough questions from kids in LGBTQ+ families.
Show Notes Transcript

All parents hear some challenging or confusing questions from their kids at some point. For LGBTQ+ parents and caregivers, the questions can be a bit trickier. How do some parents navigate answering potentially triggering questions with honesty, care, and a dash of humor? Two parents and a queerspawn discuss the funny, random, and probing things kids in LGBTQ+ families say. 

Speaker 1:
0:03
Welcome to outspoken voices, a podcast by and for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and queer parents, people with Lgbtq parents, future parents and everyone else who is part of our family journeys. I'm your host, Emily Mcgranahan and I am the director of family engagement with family equality council. I am an adult queer spawn who was made by my lesbian mom and his sperm donor. Growing up I knew our family was different and the way that I was conceived was not the same as my friends. And I love my family and I knew the scientific basis about how babies were made, but there was a lot left out by my parents. So as kids do, I filled in the gaps and just made up stuff in my head. And that is to say only when I wasn't boldly explaining what a sperm donor was to my new friends at age seven, much to the shock of their parents.
Speaker 1:
0:59
And I remember the stories that I made up and how I pretended my donor was trying to like send me secret messages. And I know many other queer spawn have similar stories. So I wanted to talk about this experience with some parents who know that other side of tough questions or funny creativity from queer spawn from kids with Lgbtq parents with me are Allen and Sam Allen. Barsky lives in a south Florida with his husband Greg daughter, Adele and their dog tippy. Dr Barsky teaches conflict resolution, social work practice and professional ethics courses at Florida Atlantic University. The family enjoys participating in theater, music, travel, silliness and social action. Sam Sky is an art therapist and licensed professional counselor at living with his partner and two children in Portland, Oregon. Sam Works in private practice with Lgbtq plus people of all ages specializing in supporting individuals through gender exploration and transition. Sam is currently working on a children's book for youth considering puberty blockers and planning a summer art camp for gender diverse kids in elementary school. So welcome Ellen and Sam
Speaker 2:
2:15
here.
Speaker 1:
2:15
Yeah. So I'm going to start by asking the question. I ask everybody as we get started, uh, who is in your family and how was your family formed? Alan, which you could start us off.
Speaker 2:
2:26
Sure. So as you started out in our household, myself, my husband Greg, my daughter Tiffany. And often when strangers will ask us questions like, where did you get her talking about? Our daughter will tell them that we found her in the bakery aisle. Publics or the conversation goes from that. So sometimes people will ask intrusive questions out of the blue and sometimes we'll just kinda joke around. So, um, let me get to know, people will explain this. Our daughter was born through surrogacy. We had a surrogate to gave birth to our daughter and she's a wonderful woman who we still have a relationship with and see on the ongoing basis on our family. And we also have an anonymous egg donor. Never met
Speaker 1:
3:15
Hanks. And Sam, who is in your family and how was it formed?
Speaker 3:
3:19
Um, well, my family consists of myself, my wife, Megan, and our two kids. Uh, Jude and sage. Sage is eight years old and uses they them pronouns. And Jude is almost too, um, and I was sages, NATO parents. So I was pregnant with, with sage and sage calls me Papa. Um, and Jude was can or excuse me. Um, sage was conceived with their other dad who I was married to at the time and uh, his name is Jay. Um, and then we divorced when sage, it's still an infant. And Megan and I met when sage was around maybe three years old. Um, and then Jude, we were married. We'd been, Gosh, let me think about this. We've been together for six years. Um, and we're, we've been married for three and a Megan is Jude's natal parents. Um, and we conceived a June through I ICI at home with help of my brother who was a, our donor.
Speaker 1:
4:18
Okay. And what are some of your favorite things to do with the family?
Speaker 3:
4:22
Oh, well, our family loves to go on adventures together. Um, we travel a lot. Like last year we, uh, we spent almost a month traveling through Germany. Um, and you know, when we're not doing some of that bigger adventure stuff, we just liked to have play dates and it's like there's constantly kids in our house just having fun or watching movies, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:
4:43
Okay. And Alan would have some of your favorite things to do with the family.
Speaker 2:
4:47
So we live in south Florida, so going to the beach and swimming, the beats are in our pool sometimes or games. We also enjoy travel and just being active in our communities.
Speaker 1:
5:02
Okay. So this episode I really wanted to talk about two sides of some of the really interesting things that kids say. Just what, what is in their brain, what they're going through, what they're thinking about. And we know that kids say some pretty hilarious things. Like just look on Twitter or Facebook and you'll find, you know, parents sharing great things or articles or Lino listicles about it. Um, so is there anything that sticks out in your mind if some of those like real gems of some particularly funny things your Kiddos have said to you that like totally surprised you?
Speaker 2:
5:44
Our daughter, Adele, is come home from school a top few times and she actually explained a sex educations variance, you know, pre k and kindergarten. So say the kids in person because they didn't understand what this farm was.
Speaker 1:
6:02
Yep. And what do you think, did she, did she ever like, has she ever told you like what she's telling them she likes? Is she getting it right or she accurate? Yeah,
Speaker 2:
6:11
yeah. I mean speaks 15 now services. Okay. Hopefully you're getting it accurate now. We're always very open with, you know, biological connections and house who was born and all of that just came very natural to her. But you know, what was kind of interesting was what was normal and natural to her. She got a lot of surprises from France and she was kind of reacted more or why don't they understand that, you know, a lot of times can say, yeah, but who's your mom now? Chrissy's explains your house two jobs. So that can kind of get tiresome when you're a young person still the same question over and over. And they don't really believe what you're saying.
Speaker 1:
6:57
Totally. And Sam didn't, if any particularly interesting or funny stuff from your kiddos come to mind?
Speaker 3:
7:04
Uh, yeah, I mean quite a few things. When, um, sage was pretty young when I transitioned. Um, so I would say, gosh, they were probably three or so, so just barely old enough to sort of explain it to them. And that had to be very simplistic. So, you know, as we were talking about, you know, taking hormones for medical transition, uh, what testosterone does and that sort of thing. You know, they started calling it beard medicine, which I thought was very cute label for what testosterone is and still to this day refers to it as beard medicine. Um, and uh, recently we're actually all out TV as a family. And, uh, there was this little boy's sitting next to us, uh, with his dad, and he looked over, he was maybe five or so and looked over at sage and just kind of in this mean tones, I'd like, do you have a dad?
Speaker 3:
7:54
Because it doesn't look like you do a, and we just kind of didn't have any idea what to say because he was a little kid and he was with his parent and it's apparent with mortified. Anyway, so we just went back to eating and kind of laughed because a, it's hilarious because sage actually has two dads. And, uh, secondly, stage was just so sweet. Am I came over and looked at me and gave me a hug and like held my shoulders and was like, I know you're my dad. You're a manly man. Which I just thought it was very sweet. And Yeah, not normally something I would use as a label for myself in any way. Uh, but just a really sweet moment.
Speaker 1:
8:32
Yeah. Yeah. And I have to say, I really do think that kids with Lgbtq plus parents or caregivers, you know, can be, you know, especially uh, surprising or creative or funny because as you've both sort of mentioned, like we're given [inaudible] age appropriate information about our families, how we came to be in a family and, and, and other people might like perceive our family but a lot of our peers are not given even that age appropriate information. And so kids fill in the gaps then. I love that, that shock sometimes that other kids can experience. I mean I, I had had no memory of this but my best friend's mom, you know, tells the story now of she just, I just, I moved to the new town, she was like kind of meeting me as their new daughter's new friend for the first time when she was driving us and she kind of tuned out a little bit and she like tuned back in and she says, I was in the back seat, like explaining what a sperm donor was to her daughter at age seven.
Speaker 1:
9:31
And she was like, what is happening? That she played it cool. But you know, like, and to me that was just like, that's what I did. Like I had to talk about that all the time. Like why wouldn't I talk about despairing donor? Like that is my every day. So I actually put a call out on, uh, on social media to ask for other stories from folks. So, um, I just want to like share a few of the, and then we can just talk about, you know them a little bit. Uh, but one of 'em Oh, some examples of sort of some other listeners that they had shared with, someone had shared a that we've always been very open about how babies are made in our house. When I was preparing to be a surrogate, we were also open with our kids about that process.
Speaker 1:
10:14
We were hanging out with the intended parents and their son or who was, or that, you know, the person who shared in and our son who is almost five at this point turns to the dad and very seriously asks, have you already taken the squarer amount of your body to put it in? My mom and dad's face got bright red. They just drive. And um, that he backed away slowly, uh, which I just love. Like sometimes we know the science but we don't know like all of the science or exactly how it works. Um, and then somebody else had shared that when there, they said, when my Kiddo made his first friend at family week in province town, he said, you have two dads. I don't even have one dad and family weekend. Provincetown is the largest gathering of Lgbtq families in the world. So I just love that. Like, wait a minute and you get to, I don't even have one like Kiddos. Uh, do you, have you noticed your kids a filling in some of any of those gaps in knowledge or heard them talking about sort of this biology then maybe they kind of know but don't all the way now?
Speaker 3:
11:26
Yeah, I can definitely, I mean speak to that. We've been very with the, you know, with our second kid, aren't you? You've been really open about that whole process and um, you know, as a, in my professional work, I, you know, we've seen that the research suggests that like transparency is really the best approach. A developmentally appropriate transparency, right? So we've been talking about that a lot, but also when you're that age, like five, six, even now a understanding the science behind it, it's complicated. So like you're talking about explaining sperm donors in the back seat. You know, Jude came to be because my brother was the donor and my brother is gay, which is something that sage knows, although I think they still kind of totally don't fully understand the concepts of sexual identity, which is totally fair when you're eight. So we were talking about it and say, just trying to understand Steven's role as a donor. And they described Steven as Jude's straight uncle, which I think is their way of trying to explain like the reproduction science of, you know, it was just such an interesting term to apply. So that was, that was kind of an example of that for me.
Speaker 1:
12:37
[inaudible] Allen, have you, uh, has your daughter filled in, have, do you know of her filling in any of those sort of gaps in information there?
Speaker 2:
12:48
Yeah, I knew that sometimes he's just got a good sense of humor about it. She was in a science class and a teacher goes, oh my mom, but what does that mean? And uh, you know, sort of joke about it. We sometimes get phone calls from parents and well meaning parents, but they say, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to handle this. I'm giving you certain questions. And no family equality council had some materials that we gave to teachers and other parents and um, you know, there are other books and videos, so that was really kind of helpful. So I think it's, it's actually a good thing you don't want to put your kids, so you are in charge of informing other families about, so LGBT families can be constructed, but it is a role that they are taking.
Speaker 1:
13:34
Absolutely. Yeah. Especially with our peers. You know, in those conversations when adults aren't always present, it's happening. It is also true that kids can ask questions or say things that can feel surprising or shocking or sometimes you know, hurtful to parents, you know, without the kids intending to necessarily be. I as I grew older, I think I still feel pretty comfortable asking some of those questions. And part of that was definitely Kudos to my parents for saying like, if you want to talk about your donor, like it's okay. It doesn't hurt us where we are open to it. Uh, but that's hard to do sometimes and it, and it can be really hard for some folks. Yeah. Did too. Do you like, does that seem true to you as well in some of your experiences?
Speaker 2:
14:20
So I think, you know, when I was younger and she knew that you had the surrogate mom who gave birth to her, that was kind of um, sufficient and more recently thinking more and understanding more about, well, you know, who is your biological mother's? He's wanting to get in touch with her. And so, you know, we had a written agreements and what's real fertility clinics. So we actually, you know, have tried to pursue that but it does get a little bit more challenging tasks. Tasks are some more questions. She gets home report there, you know, it really fits what their stage of development, she wants to know where she's coming from. I can really understand that. So, um, you know, want to be supportive of that and help her through it. But at the same time you're not able to get in contact with the biological mom. Um, you know, laughter helper deal with that as well.
Speaker 3:
15:14
Yeah. Alan, what you're saying really resonates with me in terms of using understanding of like development to help sort of separate, you know, yourself from any questions that could feel potentially hurtful or meet, we might translate them in our adults minds and feel like they are almost judgmental or something, you know, against our family structure. But, and for me, using that lens of saying, well this is, this is just my kids process and how they become, you know, th the foreground version of themselves and their own develop their own stories and narratives about their life. So it gives me, empowers me to sort of push through anything that might kind of touch on more sensitive subjects for me. Like, um, you know, as an example, uh, sage is sort of, I think because it was, they were so young, like kind of forgetting some of the things, the original details of my life before I transitioned.
Speaker 3:
16:07
And so recently asked what my old name was. So before I changed it and it really bothered me. I, I mean, I want so badly to kind of live this fantasy that my name and my identity, we're always mind and you know, to put that passed away because fundamentally things like saying my old name makes me feel dysphoric. But as a parent I really felt like it was important to be honest is this is sages history too. And I think it's important for them to be able to integrate and organize their memories. So, um, I mean we're kind of constantly all of us writing, rewriting and reprocessing or life stories. So I feel like it's my duty to support my children in that work. So, and like practically speaking, you know, sage is going to need my note or need to know my old name anyway. Right. So I just sort of told them in that moment, but also reflected very gently that, you know, that wasn't the right name for me and it doesn't really feel good to reflect on or talk about very much.
Speaker 2:
17:05
Very just assigning different take on it. You know, you asked about questions that kids ask. Sometimes it's the adults that make things kind of the most documents. So we'll have family well meaning and they'll say, oh I can be your mom, your back to the Dell doesn't have them. And most of the times he doesn't feel bad but she doesn't have a mom. But there are occasions when something will come up, there's a mother daughter event or girl scouts or something, then I will gladly participate in all of that. But sometimes it feels awkward cause you're the odd person out again and you don't have to put work in and help her with the words that she can explain. Right. And there are actually times when you also say it's in one way or friend's mom's knows you're, you're, you're a, and you know, so there are those expectations and the Sam was saying there are those narratives out there and you're kind of trying to fit in. So thankfully we were going the names, whether it's more diverse narratives, but still the predominant narrative is, you know, a mom and done
Speaker 1:
18:07
same you, you did share that a little bit of a, how you handle that to then, so do you have things that you've done or as professionals, just advice that you have for folks of now, how do you, how do you handle that in a way that is keeping those, that, that safety to ask questions going for the kids so that they feel comfortable and safe asking them, um, well still, you know, feeling good about that happening for yourself. That is something that I just see so often coming up in social media, just parents sharing, you know, my kid asked about this, why, why don't I have a mom? Or you know, what if this person was my dad? You know, and that the adults can feel that in a way that I think most kids maybe not even are aware, you know, they're not actually feeling that, that that loss or a sense of like, my family is not enough. It's just kids being kids or pets being creative or other kids that sort of outside people asking about it. So I'm, I am interested then in advice for how to handle that as the adult in that yeah.
Speaker 3:
19:14
Situation. I mean, for me it's having a lot of of support, right? So recognizing that I like going to therapy for myself, having good friends, friends who are when possible in similar situations in terms of being trans, being parents, being somewhere in there. Um, so that I can work through those things without my kid in the room and I can feel more ready in and prepare to put my reactivity to the side and just address the need of the child that's in front of me. That's, that's really for me, one of the most helpful things. And uh, I'm also not afraid to try to buy time and just say, you know, you're asking some really good questions. I'm going to think on that and come back to you. Um, which isn't always the most satisfying to them in the moment, but sometimes I just need a little bit of time to think about how I want to come at this specific question. And also to, if it's specifically triggering for me in one way or another to allow myself to calm down a little and come at it from a more, a less emotional place.
Speaker 2:
20:23
Sarah McGowan was 10. Right on in terms of, you know, if now isn't right moments because you're triggered, you're tired or angry or whatever. We'll come back to it and different time. And then lucky in south Florida, we go and purchase, sprayed it in groups, these social groups or LGBT parents and their kids and you kind of were thinking about, oh, this will be good for kids and not be able to talk about issues that our kids would get together and then just be kids. And it was the parents who would talk about how do you handle this question? This question comes up. It is good to have other parents to talk to. But, um, everyone's, uh, you know, child is of different,
Speaker 3:
21:04
yeah. I find that being around other people going through similar stuff to helps helps you to discover the things that you didn't know, to not know that, you know, they weren't even on your radar and they bring it up and you go, oh right, yeah. That's something I didn't even think about. But now that you bring it up, yes, I can totally resonate with that or think about this solution and this different angle. I feel like even even hearing Alan talk, thinking about the idea of bringing books in the classroom, such a great idea. And one of those things that, um, you know, just again, connecting is a solution that wasn't on my radar, so absolutely great thing to do.
Speaker 1:
21:41
Yeah. And so what do you, what do you think brings on those questions from kids? You've talked sometimes about development and my experience, you know, growing up with it, I definitely think it came from questions from peers that then I started asking my parents to. But I'm really curious, you know, as, as professionals working with families and working in, um, therapy and psychology, you know, what is it that brings on those questions from kids?
Speaker 3:
22:06
Oh well that sort of fear coming up in the adult. To me it definitely speaks to how kind of what we've been talking about, how adults can oftentimes filter questions through their own lens, which often can be a lens that has a lot of insecurity. Like, is this, is this the right kind of family? Am I doing this? Is this okay? Is My kid going to be okay? Am I somehow I, I, maybe that's some internalized, you know, phobia stuff that we're kind of processing as parents as we're building these families. Like do your other point. I think that really those questions for the kids oftentimes are just because they're curious and trying to figure out their story or from peers, which has been my personal experience. So this year a sage started in a new school, which has been awesome for them and so many ways, but in terms of gender equity is pretty regressive.
Speaker 3:
22:55
And so almost all the families are really classic CIS, Hetero nuclear families with a stay at home mom who's devotes tons of time at the school, uh, and that is not in any way, shape or form close to our reality. So that's been bringing up a lot of kind of jealousy and curiosity for sage. And then a lot of their peers in the last stages, peers have doubted that I'm sages, natal parent. And even when sage goes to explain it, it's is no yum. My Dad, Sam was pregnant with me. They still don't believe it because there's no way, right, that a dad could ever be pregnant. And even if they try to share that, the details of how that works, you know, scientifically or whatever, they, it just doesn't really resonate and you know, stays just wants to play and have fun and be respected. That's kind of their main goal in life. So I try to remember with all of these questions or concerns that come up that they just want to be a kid.
Speaker 2:
23:51
I think, um, you know, kind of looking back, I came out rather late in life for some reason. I had imagined that once I came out to everyone, I wouldn't have to come out again out. And then you realize you're constantly coming out. I think that's kind of the same thing with the kids and having these discussions is when they meet new people and it could be their parents or their teachers or other adults. Um, they get these questions and then they're kind of forced into answering them and they have to choose what way that they want to learn. Sit. Um, we had a situation when Adele was in a religious school, a program whelming meaning teacher and it was around mother's Day and then the teacher was having all the chance do, um, mother's Day cards and Hebrew. And you know, my daughter is like, I don't have a mother while you have to do one. Anyhow, of course you have a mother and so, you know, so you had to explain it. Yeah. When you can bring out those problems when cancer younger and talk to the adults, that's great, but we'll be there to protect your kids from low situations and forcing your fortunate though. Nope. Figure out how to deal with them.
Speaker 1:
24:56
Yeah. And that, that makes me think then how do you decide on the timing of what to share? Do you wait for maybe a hint of a question? Are you, do you just front load that information so that they have those tools? Then you can anticipate peers asking. And then the other question being and how do you determine what is age appropriate? Is that just gut instinct? Is that reading books? Is that talking to peers?
Speaker 3:
25:22
Gosh, I have a lot of reactions to, to this question. It's a great one. I mean, in terms of, you know, understanding development, it doesn't hurt at all, right. To do some reading and to understand some formal like models of child development just to have that in your back pocket. But, uh, obviously every kid is so different. And uh, observing your child and spending time with them, playing with them, just hanging out is a great way to start sort of doing some, some, you know, a calculations of your own about, you know, where's your kid at, what, what are their coping abilities right now? Uh, what kind of skills do they have? And, and as you start noticing those things, either the strengths that they do, how have, how to reinforce them, or maybe if you notice some gaps, how can we fill that in a little bit?
Speaker 3:
26:11
Um, so that, uh, first of all, they're able to take care of themselves even if they're feeling, you know, like they're in a situation and they can't quite explain it or cope with it. They have some personal skills to deal with it. I mean, to some degree, I feel like the classic good enough parenting is, is what we can offer is we're not going to get it perfect, right? So there's going to be some things where we share too much or too little and we don't quite get it right. But as time goes on, you get chances to do this over. It's like, like you talked about, never come out once. Right? We're constantly re rehashing this reapproaching it and finding the right sort of sweet spot in terms of like getting ahead of things. I think I often talk about sharing our logic brains, right? We have this fully developed prefrontal cortex that a lot of young people haven't quite gotten to. So we're able as adults to say, you know, let's, let's talk this through for a minute. Let's, let's imagine a scenario and let's think of some ideas about how we might want to deal with it. So, you know, sort of lending your ability to logic and map out some potential realities and then working with them to maybe talk about some extra information or possible solutions.
Speaker 2:
27:25
So our daughter was born in 12 weeks early. Um, so it was as prepared as we were having a daughter born 12 we'd certainly weren't so prepared. I think kinder from that point in time, we got very much into let's be on top of things. Let's be ahead of things. So we were probably talking to Intel about different issues before she really needed to. So yeah, there were times when it wasn't of interest are and so I'm like, you know, the best guide is if the child is old enough to ask the question, then they were old enough to hear the answers. So we've tried to find, you know, what's an appropriate answer and sometimes scientific, the physiological explanations really not what they're looking for. It's all, there's a joke about some child comes home to their parents and is crying, what's wrong? What's wrong? Well, you know, the kids said something and I didn't understand one of the words and they were making fun of me. Well what do they say? They said, well they found a condom on the veranda. So the parents start explaining what condiments will tell. He goes, no, I know what economist, what's the Veranda?
Speaker 1:
28:28
No,
Speaker 2:
28:28
so you have the check this you, they want to know. And you know, sometimes it's more in a sense or sometimes it's more involved than what you expect. 10 to try to do your best to have these conversations. And sometimes they'll won't be awkward or, um, maybe not be the best thing. You know, you'll have other opportunities to correct.
Speaker 1:
28:48
Yeah. I think that's such a good point. The both of you have made that no one's going to be a perfect parent. You know, parents put so much work into either bringing kids into the family to being out to coming out through the any kind of process. Like there's often so much work done that being at that, that having that kid, then yoga, we've worked so hard to be fully present parent or to be a parent at Oh, you know, in the first place you want to do it. Right. Right. And, and there's just a million ways to do it, right. And a million ways to do it wrong. And everyone does have a combo of the two and that's okay. I often will share comments and I see people writing, uh, on, on social media of, you know, things that I would do. Yeah. My, my Kiddo is playing and seeing that they have a dad that he's, uh, you know, he's a spy.
Speaker 1:
29:37
He's a secret agent. And we just, he, that's why he's not around like, what does this mean? Like w w what's wrong? You know, like, what am I doing wrong? We know what is this. And I on, of course I don't know the answer, you know, there is no answer, but from my experience, the answer is nothing. You're not doing anything wrong. You know, I loved my family, I felt very safe at home. I had loving adults in my life and I still pretended that my sperm donor was trying to send me secret messages and he was actually like a prince who just like, if only you could key could reach me, he would like tell me. He would like take me away to live in his castle. And it's not that I didn't have a happy house, I just was a dramatic kid and loved the drama of that idea, you know? And, and, and so that would honestly be my, you know, my answer is like, you know, sometimes kids are just being kids and it's totally healthy to be having these conversations. You gonna have these questions or these conversations for parents who are hearing some of these tougher questions or questions that they perceive as being, you know, a little sensitive or are challenging for them as a parent. What advice do you have for four of those parents?
Speaker 3:
30:43
Well, sort of like I had mentioned before, you know, my advice generally is to be developmentally, appropriately transparent, um, and try to figure out, you know, your, your kids coping skills and abilities and reinforce those. Um, and just give them the truth to the extent that you know, they can cope with it as far as you're able to assess. Um, really just being very concrete and specific and what's in front of them, what's in there, what's actually in, in, in their life that they're experiencing rather than sort of getting onto our adult tangents and thinking in these big terms. Most of the time I feel like kids tend to be really concrete, right? It's really about what's in front of them. So that's sort of what I've felt has been most effective for us in our family.
Speaker 1:
31:31
Great. And, and Alan, do you have any advice for parents experiencing some of this?
Speaker 2:
31:38
One of the things for parents as they sometimes feel like they have to be perfect because they're being judged more telling was growing up in an age where same sex marriage was not legal. And then, uh, Florida Jobson was not legal by a game, lesbian parents and so on. We had to prove that we were as good parents as everyone else. And I think there's still seems as of that. I think partly it's just telling ourselves so, you know, do our best and our kids are going to be fantastic and in some ways they're actually going to have advantages from the families that we are creating and living with.
Speaker 1:
32:11
Oh, I really, I had a really fun time getting to share some of these stories and I really appreciate the folks who shared some of their stories online. And thank you Sam and Alan for your, your parenting and your professional experiences and advice. I hope folks listening a really know also get something out of it. Um, and I hope folks will continue to share some of their stories of her hilarious and heartfelt queer spawn out there in the world. Thank you both for taking the time to talk with me. Thank you so much. It was awesome. Again, thank you for joining us today. Please rate, review and subscribe to outspoken voices. You can find outspoken voices on our website, soundcloud, iTunes, stitcher, and wherever you get it.
Speaker 4:
32:56
Your podcasts. You can find family equality council@familyequality.org and on Facebook and Instagram at family equality and on Twitter at family underscore equality. Until next time, remember that love, justice,
Speaker 1:
33:13
family and equality is what brings our families together.