Brent Wright is one of 64 million sandwich generation Americans who has simultaneously cared for an aging parent and his kids, all under the same roof. What made their setup unusual? His mom moved in with Brent and his husband, Sandis, plus their two daughters. Brent tells us how the dynamics in their family changed when his mom moved in, and how his 7- and 10-year-old daughters help care for their grandma.
This is Episode 185 - LGBTQ Sandwich Generation from the Agewyz Podcast.
Brent Wright is one of 64 million sandwich generation Americans who has simultaneously cared for an aging parent and his kids, all under the same roof. What made their setup unusual? His mom moved in with Brent and his husband, Sandis, plus their two daughters. Brent tells us how the dynamics in their family changed when his mom moved in, and how his 7- and 10-year-old daughters help care for their grandma.
This is Episode 185 - LGBTQ Sandwich Generation from the Agewyz Podcast.
Welcome to outspoken voices, a podcast by and for LGBTQ plus families anywhere on their journey. I'm your host, Emily McGranahan. I'm the director of family engagement with family equality. Both of my moms were the primary caregivers of my grandmothers at the aged and needed more care. My mom, Kathy, even retired early and moved in with my grandmother while I was in college. LGBTQ plus families, both parents and queers bond are caregivers of our grandparents and elders. For some that means caring for multiple generations at once grandparents and children. I am thrilled to share an inspiring episode of age-wise a podcast that shares stories from the field of caregiving and beyond. And this episode, family of qualities own a chief operating officer, Brent Wright shares his experience, caring for his mother and his two young daughters. It's a sandwich generation conversation that isn't often discussed, but is part of so many of our families enjoy the episode.
Speaker 2:Our home had a first floor bedroom, and we just felt like that was the natural next step was to offer that space to her and bring her down to live with us. We knew what it was like to have the baby. We knew what it was like to have another being very dependent on us for their meals and for their care and even their hygiene. So, you know, we had a lot of conversation about that. I think conversation is much different than reality.
Speaker 3:Hi everyone. This is the age wise podcast. Your
Speaker 2:Assumptions are going to be turned from all the pay
Speaker 3:Down. Well, we talk about aging. Well, it's an
Speaker 1:Issue that nobody wants
Speaker 3:To talk about and wisely
Speaker 4:I would totally unfamiliar with the term caregiver. You really learn what you're capable
Speaker 3:Of mine. Jana Panna, Redis.
Speaker 5:[inaudible]
Speaker 3:According to a recent survey by T Rowe price more than a third of parents with eight to 14 year old kids are also caring for an aging family member. 68% of them report that their aging parent or relative is living with them. We're talking about the sandwich generation adults who care for their own kids while also caring for a parent or grandparent or both. Brent Wright is a dad who cares for his two daughters and for his mother who moved in with Brent for health reasons. What's unusual about his situation is that Brent's mother moved in with her son and her son's husband. Brent Wright is the chief operating officer of family equality, a nonprofit that advances legal and lived equality for LGBTQ plus families. And for those who wish to form them through building community changing hearts and minds and driving policy change, Brent Wright joins me from Boston. Brent, welcome to the age-wise podcast. Thank you. I'm
Speaker 2:Glad to be here.
Speaker 3:So I read that you worked in Georgia. Are you from the south? Tell us about your upbringing.
Speaker 2:I grew up in new England. I'm actually in Maine as my husband and we met right after our college years in Portland, Maine, which is sort of a hub for folks who are pursuing college. There's a number of schools based out of the Portland area. And then, you know, over the years we had some job relocation moments and at one point that brought us to Atlanta and that's where we adopted our oldest daughter.
Speaker 3:And do you have siblings? I
Speaker 2:Do. I have three siblings. Only two of them are still with us. One passed away about four years ago now.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm so sorry. Do you mind sharing your age?
Speaker 2:I'm 53.
Speaker 3:Okay. So you're a boomer like me. Okay. So this is not a podcast about gay adoption, but let's go there anyway to properly set the stage. I wonder if you could talk about your experience of adopting your daughters. I know this was a transracial adoption. Tell us about some of the challenges that you faced and when you adopted.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Our oldest daughter is 10 now and when we adopted, we were also relocating, like I mentioned to Georgia at the time from Chicago and really knew that we wanted to be out of the city and in a more suburban environment to start our family and got connected surprisingly in the Atlanta area to a, an agency that was very gay friendly was really well known at the time for being one of the only national organizations that did, you know, really proactively reach out to people in the LGBTQ community who are seeking to build their family. And they quoted us rate from the beginning that it's about a two year process and it was a thing cause almost rates of the day. It was two years for us to get through the process and to actually successfully adopt our daughter. But, you know, we had the typical journey for that adoption where we had some stops and starts some matches that didn't work out and for various reasons. And then we said yes to the match for my daughter's birth mother and everything really fell into place. It was one of those moments where it was like, this was meant to be somehow a really great experience.
Speaker 3:It's two years typical for an adoption or is that just for gay adoption?
Speaker 2:They quoted that as typical for anybody who's in the adoption pipeline. I mean, you know, just sort of the natural stops and starts that you have with some of these matches when we decided to be really open to any match, including matches from races that we don't have. That was a commitment that we made by really reaching out to our network and our community to understand the, um, responsibility we would be taking on to do that. And that would really mean to bring a child up who did not have the same reef that we hold. So that's been a very intentional decision that we made in a very, a very, um, multilayered process to make sure we give that the justice that we can.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, tell us about your daughters, Noel and Olivia, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. So Olivia's tens, she's our oldest daughter and Noel is soon to be eight. She'll be eight in January. And, um, they're both, African-American, they're not biologically related. They have different birth mothers. When we adopted our oldest daughter, we had only planned on having one child. And as often as the case for families unexpectedly, a second opportunity came our way. We had close friends who had just adopted as well. And they had an experience where their adoption agency, where they'd heard about this child that was matched with parents who both lost their job and had to back out of the adoption at the last minute for some pretty dramatic financial reasons. And they were looking for our rematch for this birth mother who was going to be giving birth in about four weeks. And we said yes to the opportunity thinking that we'd had stops and starts with our first daughter. And it was unlikely that it was going to work out. And four days later we got a call that we were going to be parents and she'd gone into labor early and we needed to immediately come to Philly. Um, we were in the Boston area and we became parents in four days.
Speaker 3:Wow. And you said Olivia is the older and the older one. Okay. And Noel. So that's nice. She has a sister. Does the agency that you went through specialized in gay adoptions or they're just adoptions across the board.
Speaker 2:They observed the broader community. They just had found that their sort of angle was, they were open to working with gay couples or singles and just had become really well known in the gay community for that. They ended up going out of business couple years ago, so they no longer exist, which presents its own challenges for the families that worked with them. But, you know,
Speaker 3:Did you have any concerns with adopting first of all, as white parents and, and also as gay parents?
Speaker 2:I think for me, I had a lot of connections to communities of color through the work and through my own extended family. So I felt more fluent in terms of what I needed to really be thoughtful about and then intentional about. So I went into it with more comfort than my husband necessarily had. He had far less experience in that way and was really worried about everything from haircare to just making some really not culturally appropriate decisions or, you know, resources and things like that. It was definitely a process for us. We talk about race in our family almost every day. My girls are still big tub takers and it was a great chance to have conversations with them during a quiet time and talk about these kinds of things. We still do that today. A lot, my oldest daughter no longer likes to take a tub with.
Speaker 3:Okay, well, I want to get to your mom because that's the main thrust of this conversation. So I'm curious to know what your relationship with your mom was like before she moved in and what precipitated the move.
Speaker 2:So I was, um, later in life child, so my parents were older when I was born. And when I came out, we had conversation about it. But in typical new England fashion, that was like, I'm okay with that. Let's just not talk about it. Yeah, exactly. And from the time they met and us, my husband, when we were dating, you know, they treated him as though he was like, anybody else they'd met that I had dated and they weren't homophobic in that way at all. I didn't have that experience, but I also didn't have that level of conversation or relationship with them that it felt like they really knew what my life was like and understood it again. It was sort of that don't ask, don't tell almost kind of vibe to it over the years. My dad passed away in the year 2000. So my mom, after that had some health struggles and had been in a semi assisted living situation. As those health pieces progressed, I felt less and less comfortable that she was safe and her hygiene wasn't at a quality I felt comfortable with either. And I knew she wasn't comfortable with growing up with her my whole life. I knew, you know, what her level of comfort with that was. So,
Speaker 3:Um, was she in Maine?
Speaker 2:She wasn't Maine. And you know, I have some extended family. That's still in the area where we grew up and where she was living, but it wasn't as close as like a sibling to like check on her and really make sure that things were okay on a daily basis. And then she had a fall, a pretty significant fall where she cracked her hip, broke her hip. And at that point we just decided that was the final straw that really told us, like she needs more than she's getting right now. And our home had a first floor bedroom and we just felt like, you know, that was the natural next step was to offer that space to her and bring her down to live with us.
Speaker 3:And what was that conversation like with Sandis?
Speaker 2:You know, it was a lot about talking through how our life was going to change. We knew what it was like to have a baby. We knew what it was like to have another being very dependent on us for their meals and for their care and even their hygiene. So, you know, we had a lot of conversation about that. I think conversation is much different than reality. So there was definitely some reality that we had some adjusting to do.
Speaker 3:Was your mother resistance at all?
Speaker 2:You know, I think at that point she was so unhappy with where she was living in terms of her ability to even get her laundry that, and just like the things that for her no longer for things that she could do independently and she really needed more assistance than she could get on this semi assisted environment. And then once she broke her hip, she really just needed pretty intensive assistance for those first few weeks. So it just, wasn't a reality that for her to even really stay there at that point,
Speaker 3:What do you mean when you say semi assisted? What does it look like?
Speaker 2:So the place that she was living in was owned by, uh, extended relative a cousin of my mother's, who had worked in a nursing home for many years. And after she left that and retired, she and her husband bought a home and had multiple bedrooms and was large enough to offer this to other folks. And she had a nurse that lived there also that the folks though.
Speaker 3:And so it was kind of like a boutique set up. That's actually becoming more popular. So was there ever any discussion that she might move in with one of your other siblings?
Speaker 2:You don't only think of my sibling that passed away that might've been an option for him, but the other two, no. They both have family than situations that I don't think. And their homes aren't really set up for that. And we felt our own pressure around it because our house did have this first floor bedroom with its own bathroom. And there were just so many factors that really lent themselves to the accessibility for her.
Speaker 3:Do your other two siblings live in Maine or are they elsewhere?
Speaker 2:I have one that lives just outside Nashville and one who's in Maine, but she lives in a very rural area on a,
Speaker 3:So that's probably a challenge to living out in a rural area. So when did your mom move in with?
Speaker 2:That was about three and a half years ago.
Speaker 3:Okay. Not that long ago. No. So how's it going?
Speaker 2:Doesn't live with us anymore.
Speaker 3:Oh, she doesn't. Oh, so what happened? Take us through that
Speaker 2:The first couple of years, I think it was pretty well, you know, I mean, there was a lot of challenges for us as a family because some of the things that we would normally do as a family and we are big travelers. So we would, you know, at the drop of a hat, all, we don't have any plans this weekend, everybody's going to pack a bag and we're gonna go a couple of states over and just do this fun little getaway weekend. There was none of that anymore. Everything had to be really scripted and planned. And you know, we did establish a network of support. So we had a home health aide that would come in and do some work with my mom. And then we also found some really great care providers who would actually stay at the house overnight if we ever needed that. I felt like there was a stream of people in and out. It got to the point where like, I didn't even have to answer the door. They just come in and knew their way around. Right. That's some time obviously to build those relationships and find those relationships.
Speaker 3:So it was of manageable for a certain period of time. How long did that last?
Speaker 2:That was about two year and it was over the last, you know, after we got past that two year mark, there were a good six months where it became super challenging
Speaker 3:More of our conversation after the break. Hey everyone, it's Jenna. I want to tell you about a new offering from age-wise media. It's called life stories for the agents. And it's all about preserving the personal history of someone you love by recording their life story on video. How did you feel about raising kids? What was the best thing?
Speaker 6:Seeing them grow up? It was such a joke, such a wonderful thing to have in your grasp. You know,
Speaker 3:Capturing a life story on video, not only has therapeutic value for the person being interviewed. It also gives adult children a chance to discover things about their parents that they never knew.
Speaker 6:I was always looking for action and for getting into trouble, because that was more fun.
Speaker 3:Check out this wonderful way to see here and forever cherish the life story of someone you love before. It's too late to explore how it works. Go to life stories for the ages.com.
Speaker 6:I live in the moment living at the time and don't look ahead too much and don't look back.
Speaker 3:How old is she by the way? How old was she when she moved in?
Speaker 2:So she's 91 now. So she was like probably 88, cause she's an August birthday. So she was probably 88, but you know, our health, just people at that age, all the little things become bigger things. And we could see clearly that dementia side of her diagnosis was progressing. She was starting to like see things that weren't there and the kids, especially my youngest daughter didn't understand that that stuff became part or on the family. And then her toileting became increasingly a challenge for her at the point at which she went in the nursing home. She had had a couple of really scary health moments where she passed out and she ended up getting diagnosed with ovarian cancer that had spread pretty much throughout our body. Oh my goodness. And they could see spot in all, basically the major organs, which was an explanation of why her toileting was getting bad and like all of those different things. And because of her advanced age, they couldn't treat it the way they would normally treat cancer. She couldn't withstand chemo or radiation or treatment and needed blood transfusions pretty regularly.
Speaker 3:That diagnosis that
Speaker 2:Was around December, January around this timeline last year. Yeah. And it was really the doctors that made the decision for us were basically, as they were telling us all of these different things, they're like, and she can't go home with you. She needs to be monitored. Her blood levels needed to be monitored. She's probably going to need ongoing transfusions. Like we can't treat the cancer, we can only treat the symptoms, you know?
Speaker 3:So is she essentially on hospice?
Speaker 2:So the crazy thing is around January, February, when she got discharged last year, she went into a nursing home. She went into the first one, which you know, was probably okay, but she had an attack of this cancer related symptoms where she had to leave the nursing home and go back into the hospital. And when she got released from that second visit, we chose a nursing home that was more highly recommended to us by some of the folks that we know. We have a good friend. Who's an occupational therapist here in town and worked at that nursing home. And so we, we chose this place and it's super close to our house. It's like a half a mile from my house. So I still go up every day. I do her laundry. I bring her special food treats and stuff like that. And the kids go up. So it's nice. We still have a close family connection to her, but we now have trained professionals who can actually meet the needs that she now has.
Speaker 3:So she's 91. Now
Speaker 2:She's 91, but you know, what's crazy for us since she's been in the nursing home. I just had her case meeting with the folks who are on her care team and her most recent round of blood tests and all the other things that they run are so good. She is literally the cat with nine lives. I mean, she just thought she'd been on death's door so many times now that like, I'm just like, okay, I think she's going to be around a little longer. The most they have to do is that blood transfusion, when her levels drop and she's had some pretty dramatic weight loss moments, she's gained a little bit recently, but you still really skinny and really tiny
Speaker 3:Transfusions are really exhausting for older people too, for anyone. But especially for older people,
Speaker 2:It's so weird though. Like when they do the transfusion, like her entire body color almost immediately changes like a very sallow yellow ish tone, you know, almost immediately to a more Pinker. Like you can see it almost going through her.
Speaker 3:Wow. That's fascinating. And I was going to ask, because in the survey that I mentioned, the opened, it was also reported that nearly a third of dual caregivers spends$3,000 or more a month caring for an aging parent or a relative. So what does that look like for you? Are you paying for her care?
Speaker 2:So she had to get on what's called mass health gear and the state. And there were a lot of financial eligibility requirements around that where she had to liquidate what small amount of fiscal assets that she had.
Speaker 3:So that's like a Medicaid program. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's intense. They go back and look at bank accounts and there's all kinds of hoops that you jump through to get through that process. But yeah, it's expensive. I mean, it was shocking to see nursing home bills before that actually kicked in. You don't pay anything until their eligibility is determined. These bills just build up and you get them in the mail. And you're like, okay, it's now$40,000.
Speaker 3:Wow. And you just put the bills aside because you're not legally liable for them while the process is being executed to go on mass health. I see.
Speaker 2:And we were super lucky. Cause again, we knew a couple people who were connected to the field told us, don't spend down what little bit she has. You actually set up a trust where it's held as an aside and all of these little meals and things they can actually reimburse from the trust. And then when she passes away, if there's money there, the nursing home, those payments get applied to it. And then it goes pretty quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's a whole other topic. Well, I want to go back for a minute to when your mom moved in with you and how your girls reacted to that. Initially
Speaker 2:It was interesting because they think for them, it was a transition of this person that they had a lot of happy affectionate memories for, to seeing more, the daily struggles that the person goes through. And whether it's the toileting, the feeding, the getting dressed, showering, all those different things that are such a challenge. And I say this to my husband, but also to other members, our family is hard as it was during those couple of years. I think it was so good for them because they have a level of compassion and understanding. I'm not sure at their age, they would have had, like when we go up to the nursing home, now they immediately take out the Lysol wipes that she likes to have her tray wiped down. My older daughter will immediately when her meal comes, when the nursing home stop bringing that in, she immediately uncovers that and starts cutting up her food for like just things that are instinctual for them. Now this person needs my assistance and I don't need to be asked to do what I know what I need to do.
Speaker 3:Uh huh. That's really great for them to have that exposure. So before your mom moved in with you, let's say she had to move in with you and for some other reason, do you think it would have been difficult for her to move into a gay couples house? I mean, you know, obviously a lot of gay adults have parents who rejected them or they haven't entirely accepted their sexual orientation, even though their child is now an adult lead a full, healthy life. So that's why I was asking you earlier about your relationship with your mother, because, you know, I wondered whether she was resistant because of your sexual orientation, because this is quite common, right? Yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I think it would have been a different story if it was my dad, as much as he was accepting on the surface. I think the reality of living with us would have been different for him and harder. There were moments when my mother's dementia flashed and you could see things where she was super confused. Like I remember a moment when she had one of our hospital's stays where she was telling the nurse, oh, are you single? You know, this is my son. You should talk to him like, you know, almost trying to do this weird matchmaking thing. And I'm like, you know, like, so, and the nurse would know like, oh, I'm with my husband and my two kids, like what? We're not matchmaking making here. So there's some of that, you know, that would flare up now. And then,
Speaker 3:Well, Brent, what are you hearing from other LGBT caregivers? If anything, about caring for aging parents?
Speaker 2:It's just not a lot of ways for us to connect with each other. I think I found that it was really hard for me, even with my siblings to talk about what the reality was like, because if you don't experience that, I think it's really hard to understand completely. And I think the limitations that places on you socially, you know, whether it's the family trips or late doing stuff with other couples and other families and things like that, like there are so many more factors that go into that. And at that time I couldn't at the drop of a hat, except those invitations, you know, I had to say no more often than not. I was the one not to go while the rest of the family went. Yeah,
Speaker 3:Of course this is true of all caregivers, regardless of sexual orientation. Do you hear stories from other gay and lesbian caregivers of challenges that they face, particularly because of their sexual orientation
Speaker 2:Folks that I know there's a lot of worry and fear about it because of the relationship that they've had about their identity over the years with their parents, like what is going to happen when that time comes? And if that is an ask of me or that I'm the only option, how am I going to handle that? And what will it be like? I think there's just so much stress in folks who see that as more eminent.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Is there anything that you would like people to know about LGBT caregivers that they might not know?
Speaker 2:I think finding your village, finding your network, you know, like that was so critical for me in those first six months, it was about understanding what resources are out there that I could tap into for some support, some respite, quote unquote. And there actually are respite providers out there for caregivers, but also just having a network of people who either had it going on or had done it before, who could talk about it and understand that. And I think that that's always the key. Is that feeling of you get it, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. It's such a relief, isn't it? Do your other siblings visit your mom?
Speaker 2:You not as regularly as she, or I would like, it's that typical story of they sort of take for granted, but she's going to be there tomorrow. And I see the reality of that more than they do because I'm seeing her every day. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, there's something so purine about caring for somebody who is older, do you really, in a way have to face your own mortality, you can't escape it. How would you say your relationship with your husband changed during the time that your mom lived with you? And now
Speaker 2:I think that these sorts of things test your relationship, but also make you realize how strong it is. And I think that's been true of this. That's been true about becoming parents and you know, I think that's why I'm with my husband actually is because we stand the test of those challenges and have over and over again. I think that's part of how a lot of a lot of people survive their relationships and that's why they survive is because they're able to withstand some of those challenges.
Speaker 3:You guys have been together a long time. Haven't you? You can go ahead and tell me, Oh, that's awesome though. That's fantastic. Brett. I want to ask about this program with family equality called family speak out because I know that you engage with grandparents and elders in the LGBTQ community. And I would love to hear about pearls of wisdom, that part of the program.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You know, over the years, we've learned that the ability for our community to tell our stories is our most powerful tool to connect with each other, but also to change hearts and minds, to help people who may not understand the LGBTQ community from a firsthand perspective to do so in ways they can relate to. We started pearls of wisdom specifically to, to focus on the grandparents and the elders in our community, the woman who sort of inspired, it talked a lot about a Jewish tradition around basically passing on knowledge to the next generation. So the Pearl of wisdom, and that's really what started the program. I think we're in our fifth year of it. Now I'd have to go back and look for sure, but it really is about that experience of helping people who may have been conflicted by their child coming out, who may not have been as accepting of their lifestyle or of their community members. And as they became grandparents, they really rethought those relationships and thought about them, a new wave. And I think it's been a huge benefit to our work that we do with him. I quality because it gives us a chance to really reach out to people, speak out to people and help others understand that perspective.
Speaker 3:We've been speaking with Brent Wright, caregiver to his daughters, Olivia and Noel, and a caregiver for his mom who no longer lives with Brent and his husband, but live with them for about two years. Brent is the chief operating officer of family equality, which just celebrated its 40th anniversary. And you can find out more about the work of this organization by going to family equality.org. Brent, thank you so much for sharing your story on the age wise podcast. It's been fascinating. Thank you. That's it for today. Thanks for listening. If you have a moment we'd love for you to explore our new service called life stories for the ages, it's all about capturing the life story on video of someone you love before it's too late. Go to life stories for the ages.com and check it out. The age wise podcast is produced and mixed by me and it's distributed on the nationally syndicated, speak up talk radio network. We hope you have a restful safe and sane holiday season indulge yourselves caregivers. No one works harder than you and you deserve it. I'm Janet.[inaudible] see you next time. And remember, every caregiver has a story. I want to hear yours
Speaker 5:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:This year will mark some exciting changes for the podcast. And for me personally, by the time this episode is released, I should have welcomed my first kid to the world. So outspoken voices will look a little different in 2020. The show is switching to a seasonal structure. New episodes will be released for about an eight week period once a week, starting in the early summer. And again in the fall, keep an eye, an ear out for updates and special episodes between now and the first 2020 season. It's a short hiatus, but we're coming back special episodes between now and the first 2020 season. It's a short hiatus, but we're coming back again. Thank you for joining us today. Please rate, review and subscribe to outspoken voices. It really helps others find the show. You can listen to outspoken voices on our website, iTunes, Google play Stitcher tune in, or your favorite podcast app. You can find family equality@familyequality.org and on Facebook and Instagram at family equality and on Twitter at family underscore equality for questions, inquiries, or episode suggestions, contact us@outspokenvoicesatfamilyequality.org. And remember that love justice and equality is what brings our families together.