The Quarter Queen by Kayla Hardy

Jane Healey welcomes debut author Kayla Hardy to The Jane Healey Happy Hour to discuss The Quarter Queen, a historical fantasy set in 1840s New Orleans. Drawing on her background in Black folklore and Louisiana Creole history, Hardy explores the life and legend of Marie Laveau through a layered mother-daughter story that blends magic with real historical tensions. The conversation highlights how voodoo, Catholicism, and the realities of slavery intersect in the novel, as well as Hardy’s path from TV pilot to published book. Hardy also shares how she approached Marie as both a powerful figure and a flawed, human mother navigating a dangerous world.

Transcript

Jane 0:05

Welcome to the newly branded Jane Healey. Happy hour, formerly historical happy hour of the podcast that explores new and exciting novels of all genres. I'm your host, bestselling historical fiction author Jane Healy, and in today's episode, we welcome Kayla Hardy. To discuss her fantastic debut, the Quarter Queen, which is receiving rave reviews and has been called a vibrant and dazzling historical fantasy that brings New Orleans to magical menacing life through the eyes of a mother and daughter who must fight to survive. It comes out March 31st. Welcome, Kayla. Thanks for doing this.

Kayla 0:38

Thank you for having me, Jane.

Jane 0:40

Yeah, this is awesome. So I have so many questions. I'm gonna do your read your bio real quick so everyone learns a little more about you and then we'll dive in. So Kayla Hardy is a mythology expert and a Multihyphenate author and screenwriter of Louisiana Creole Scent. She earned her PhD. Creative writing in African American literature from SUNY Bingington University. Dr. Hardy is an adjunct professor at SUNY and is an accomplished scholar of black folklore, mythology, and Voodoo. The Quarter Queen is her first novel. Again, welcome.

Kayla 1:11

Thank you.

Jane 1:12

So I have so many questions. Again, congratulations on your debut. My public is Anne Marie, helps me with bookings and we were talking about this book this morning'cause we're like, this is such a unique, cool premise and New Orleans culture and history is so fascinating and rich and troubling and lush. And so talk about the premise of the novel and what inspired you to write it.

Kayla 1:35

Thank you so much. I love how you said troubling too, because it is for all and I think, and I'm getting ahead of myself for all of the sort of. Lushness and grandeur of New Orleans. There's the rot, the knee, when we talk about the 19th century and enslavement of black folks that you just, you can't do the 19th century without talking about slavery. And I think I was so excited to do in a genre context of a historical fantasy because I feel like sometimes the metaphor allows you to really get to the heart of things. All that to be said was super inspired because I am of Louisiana Creole descent, no one is perhaps more famous. That demographic besides the queen herself, Marie Lavoe. And I think I really wanted to dive into this because a, I was a folklore researcher. I've been so inspired by I think this gets into like other things too, but like Zoro Hurston who really went through the American south and studied a lot of black folklore and then she spent three days being naked and like summoning re la on a ritual. And I'm like, I'm not doing that, but we, but we can in a fictional context, tackle this. And I think I was. Almost in a way intimidated because I just grew up hearing so much about her. And I think, later being a researcher, I was looking to do like a textbook on the Voodoo Loa. And the more I was researching reading, I'm like, this will make a such a great story. And at that time I was, branching off the screenwriting. So this became a television pilot that went around and started winning awards. I started meeting with managers and they were like, this would be very expensive to make. And I was like, but not if we do the IP as a book. But long story short, I was a novelist first. I went to school for that and later became a screenwriter and like now it's back full circle to being a novelist and very insane. But needless to say, the book sold pretty quickly. We were very excited about Valentine and really mattered her. Had a great vision for it. Had a really center re more forward at the daughter, but. All that to be said is that a lot of people get confused between VO one and REVO two. Andre Levo two, we don't know if you know a few facts about her. She was said pretty much to be more wicked than her mother. And I'm like, that's great because Wicked to who And I really felt like we could really do a double kind of metaphor with that.

Speaker 3 3:37

And

Kayla 3:38

really, new Orleans being a super Catholic city, I felt like that motif of the saints and the sinners and like they each kind of embody that Marie is, the saint Marie's the sinner. And in a way it's a metaphor for all of us. I think we all have a little bit of a saint and a sinner in us. Super long-winded answer.

Jane 3:54

No. I love the answer. You actually answered my second question because I was like, I love hearing people's different paths of publication. And I was reading on your website that this was conceived as a television pilot.

Kayla 4:04

Yes. And

Jane 4:04

And you just, you, but you found your way to public.

Kayla 4:06

Yes.

Jane 4:06

That's novel. So that's so cool.

Kayla 4:09

Absolutely.

Jane 4:10

So this story is set in 1840s New Orleans, and inspired by, as you mentioned, real person in history, Marie Lavoe. And in your note in your, I love author's notes. I'm such a nerd about that stuff. So in your author's note, you say, the real life Marie Lavoe was in fact a long reigning voodoo queen in New Orleans. Much of what we know about her life remains vague, veiled, if you will. I like to imagine that's exactly the way a woman like Marie intended. So talk about what you know and where you had to fill in the blanks in terms of her life.

Kayla 4:43

Oh my goodness. And I think a lot of people will forgive me for this. We really sent to Marie one and two. She had other children, other daughters. It just, we can't have six Marines running around and a book. Like what? And so there's a lot, and I love this question because Voodoo itself is very much, and help people who practice, but forgive me for this. A lot of it is mysterious, even to me who has studied it for many years and honestly probably a bit of a closed practice. I don't think one can just, talk right in. You probably shouldn't. If you're listening to this, you wanna go practice voodoo, go talk to people who actually do this. Please do not practice this at home willy-nilly. Please don't do that.'cause I am Creole and I do believe in Juju and we don't wanna be you. Just trust me. Please don't. But Marie was a lot of things. She was, and I really loved. I'm inspired by stories like Game of Thrones, the Witcher that get into morally gray worlds. And I always thought, and maybe I'm a bit of a cynic too, that's how I see the world. In that, I think gray's stories allow you to really get to the light because there's always a lot of darkness, but like it is so hard to maybe be a good person when all these things are very fraught and dangerous run because we're scared oftentimes, and I think we all like to imagine we'd be the hero. What if you're a mother and what if you have all these things that selfishly wanna protect? It would make you the villain somebody. And that's how I really wanted to approach. Marie and her story. And so she was a plague nurse. She, went and visited prisoners in prison to help them through pain last rights. She was, worked very close with Pierre Wan, the famous priest that was there. And I more on him later.'cause he is very fascinating for, especially for a story like this. You cannot make this up because it's no, so great. And for folks who don't know, he came as a pretty much an emissary for the Spanish crown for an inquisition. That never happened. I told in many ways the Quarter Queen has an inquisition in the past, which makes it in all history automatically, and I'm jumping ahead, but

Jane 6:30

that's okay.

Kayla 6:31

Marie was all those things. A plague nurse, a voodoo queen, a mother, a wife, a widow and maybe a bit of a villain to some people. And I honestly, I'm like, that's a great character and I think. The impetus to approach Marie for a lot of folks has been like, let's focus on the spectacle and the magic needed. We go to New Orleans, lots of tourists, God bless them, we'll focus on that. And I'm like, she was the first in her family to be born free. And I'm like that if we were in the 19th century, I could not get that off of my mind. I bet she couldn't get off hers either. And so I often wanted How did that, because I feel like that's often left outta discussions. How did that affect her as a voodoo queen? Then she was a free woman, but eh a lot of folks, your friends, your, acquaintances might also be enslaved, but so New Orleans, they did allow enslaved people to practice voodoo in the Congo Square on Sundays and whatnot. And so she was the queen of everybody under that one kind of parcel power. I thought that's a very intriguing kind of duality to her. And I honestly thought that approaching her as a mother would really humanize her because again, we'll get to the spectacle and fantasy, but we stay for the characters. And I think her as a mother who would do anything to save her daughter from this sort of, pretty much from slavery itself, because remember. Black people could be freed if someone actually present those freedom papers, they could be torn up, disappeared, anything. So it's a very contentious aspect of freedom. Now, new Orleans enjoyed quite a good deal of that given that, free people of color could own houses and whatnot. A lot more freedoms I would suspect in New Orleans versus some other southern states, which the Quarter Queen gets into. But yeah, and so I was really excited to approach it from that aspect. Again, another long-winded answer, but. I could never doubt about her all day, but yes, as a bit of an anti-hero.

Jane 8:13

Amazing. No, I love your long-winded answers. Yeah. This is the best kind of interviews because you make my job easier. I don't have to pull it outta you at all. Okay. So you or your publicist provided some terrific questions, so thank you. I love it when guests do that. So you ground the book in Voodoo and Black Southern folklore AR areas you studied academically for years. So how did your scholarly research shape the magic system and spirituality in the novel?

Kayla 8:41

That's okay. Love this question. I think that might have been Chelsea's question. I think I gave to shout out to Chelsea, my girl. I, it's, I wanna be respectful again because I don't practice voodoo and I wanna, I feel like my duty again as a person that is also a black woman, that is also a researcher, I really wanted to make voodoo show it in a light that I think Hollywood is pretty much skewed and made it seem like this dark satanic. And it's like Satan has nothing to do with voodoo. In fact, which I think one thing I was very proud of in the novels, like really gets to the heart of marie is a Catholic, very devouted, probably the most devouted in New Orleans. One could argue there's also the Voodoo Queen. And Voodoo itself is a syncratic religion that has, basically has roots in Catholicism and the LOA are basically intermediaries that are here to help their followers. Are they a bit of tricksters? Yes.'cause you know what? God probably isn't, but this'cause they want you to figure it out on your own. But in the meantime,'cause it's a fantasy novel, bit of the puppeteers behind it all. I would say I wanted to reflect the positivity in that and that it was an empowering tool, especially for free and enslaved black folks, but also because it's a fantasy novel. We can actually, we can show them, we can tease them out, and I think for me, new Orleans, pretty much the great part about it, I don't if you've ever been. It's pretty much the way it's represented in the Quarter Queen. It's full of spirits and demons and whatnot. Even people don't believe in it. People are always talking about it. They're everywhere. The mask, it's a Mardi Gras every day for me when I'm there.'cause I love to drink and love to party get my re on. But at the same time, my mom was like, girl. But at the same time, I think in a fantasy novel, you can do a bit more. And I got to really explore the idea of in Voodoo you, it's called being mounted. When the LOA will embody you, end well within you, possess you and other, there are terms, I guess it is possession and through that you have a spiritual experience and a lot of, like we have a deeply Catholic family, not really much different than people saying, come go within me Holy Ghost. So again, we get to see the roots between kinda both religions. So I would say I really just wanted show in a respectful light, but also having some fun. And like Papa Lega for instance because he is a character, again, I'm an author. Hopefully it's respectful. But again, there's a, the moniker like he who stands at the beginning and the end. That's my invention, but it's based on real facts. Papa Allegra is the first solo that will be invoked in a ritual before the others. He's the communicator Loa, the Gateway Loa. The one that translates all languages. And I think he's a really fun character because he is always like an old man that's really a trickster. And I thought that's my invention. But at the same time, I think because Quarter Queen's adult history, we have our own little in universe spins on it. It's still voodoo. And so stuff like that had a lot of fun with.

Jane 11:15

Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. And you mentioned New Orleans. I've been there. I love it. I'm dying to go there with my daughters because it's such it's such it's like nowhere else on earth. Nowhere. You're right about the feel, like the feelings in the air and the spirituality and the culture and the food. Don't get me scared.

Speaker 3 11:30

Yes.

Jane 11:32

Such good food. So talk about, I, I love when settings are almost like characters unto themselves. So how did you, obviously you have a family connection there, personal connection. How did you create New Orleans as a setting in the 18 hundreds and what did what was your research process like? Maybe you didn't have to do that much'cause you have a connection there already. But I'm curious about that.

Kayla 11:53

I think it's informed twofold from my parents are separated or were, and I spent a lot of my summers in the south with my dad's side and they're from Lafayette, Monroe. And we would go visit New Orleans. I have a few cousins in New Orleans as well, and that was always the anchor city and then also Shreveport. And so I got to be bounced around between there and Baton Rouge as well, and really got to experience the magic of Louisiana as a whole. And I'm it's mind blowing because I pretty much was a Northerner and it was like a culture shock almost to the point to where when I would go back home, my accent had changed. And people were like, what happened to your voice? It's baby, it's it's so cute. Somebody talk. It's so cute. But at the same time. Going and becoming a researcher, you start diving more into 19th century and the politics and whatnot. And then, because I'm a nerd, I'll go look at maps and so that was probably a challenging part too, was the map for the quarter green.'Cause we have one, which maybe I can show'cause I have the final copy here. Sneak peek. We have the map which is, oh, not a yes,

Jane 12:47

yes. Yeah.

Kayla 12:48

But I'm not a map person. And maybe you've gone through this with the book, have to turn in the map for the map maker and then it's okay, but I have to give them a good sample. And so just looking at the maps were very helpful for placing locations because I, when this book was acquired by my editor, Natalie. God bless her. I was like, Kayla, you need to just go make a map so we can figure out, because once you have those locations, visually, you're tuned in. Then there's set pieces and you realize that you check off all those boxes. So I really did wanted to feel like we were all over the quarter, but we never really leave the quarter. So again, we go to the bayou, but At the same time, there was some invention on my part, and I do, this is a little bit my gripe sometimes with historical fiction, is that we can get the texture of a room of a place. But there's not like an sometimes in some novel specificity where we don't name the places. Like we're just moving through the quarter and I read books like that set in Louisiana. I'm like, I got to do a little bit of I call it like the Harry Potter role building, but like we give places names of like the House of Flowers and and I think the fun part for me was I have responsibility to make it seem like the real New Orleans. This is also an old history and a fantasy, so I have to basically heighten those magical elements. And so again, the House of Flowers has a huge wisteria tree inside of it and like getting to do fun and haunting, atmospheric, things like that. And then of course, like the building changes names from like French to English. And I'm like, yeah, if New Orleans was magical, we probably would see something like that. So it was a weird trying to live in the twilight between what's real and a little bit of my own invention to give it my own kind of spin. So it was really fun.

Jane 14:13

Yeah. I love that. And I love how you talk about it as set pieces, like Like al'cause this has a very, this book has a very cinematic feel too, and it's almost like different settings. And you're right, there are some books that are dry with descriptions of settings and things, and they can be, they can add so much The story. And to the getting to know the characters and and the narrative. So

Kayla 14:32

thank you.

Jane 14:32

Yeah. So I wanna talk about Marie and re her daughter Marie. Marie too. And, so how did you develop them as characters and their relationship to each other? Because they're very different in many ways, but also have some underlying similarities and and so I think you said I read somewhere you read, this is at heart, it's a mother daughter story, right? It is. It's historical fantasy. But that is really like the root of it.

Kayla 14:57

It is and no spoils. But it grows into a family story as well as we get towards the end. But. So with Marie Re, I think you know, Marie Lavo is the anchor, right? She's our famous character and in many ways re is Marie Lavo, which is confusingly. And it's for me, we don't know who re is without knowing who Marie Lavo is. And I know it works backwards because when we meet in the present, Marie is the one that's veiled and it's all powerful and mysterious and. I wanted to feel like we were re in a way like this is her mother, but she still has so many questions and trying to figure her out and I think when we get to the dual timeline structure, we are Marie now and she is younger. She, we see, she's more re she's fiery. She has these ideals about how to make New Orleans better and, no spoilers, but we see how basically she becomes. She's in the present. Maybe all powerful, but power will cost you. I think that's probably one of the themes of Quarter Queen is that power has a cost. Anyone who seeks power probably is not fit for it. And so a lot of these characters are called to their positions and spiritually, politically. In approaching it that way, we are re fish outta water, but also like beta to Neuro Orleans. And with re I think she has a lot of resentment because she sees her mother as. For better or for worse, as the voodoo queen doesn't have much time for her, and if she does have time for her, it's always a lesson. She's a queen person, a teacher in many ways, like John and as we'll come to see, but not so much maternal warmth. And I think what re comes to understand is that there's way more to it. There are secrets. Maybe Marie should have said more than she did. She was scared. I think wanting to protect your child, not just from slavery, but from the brotherhood, the white hand. You have the church, you have all these things that are in New Orleans actively every single day. Re in order to keep basically her secret, she has this kind of heart of stone. And we get to unpack that and realize she's just a woman. And many women have secrets and everything else as they, grow up. So getting to humanize Marie actively through the pages was a lot of fun. But re I think is a spoiled, she's a brat with a heart of gold. That's how I like describe her. Yeah. Yeah. And so when we, so when I knew who Marie was, we just can't have two of the same characters because that's boring. And they're both called Marie Lu. I was like, oh, no so we're gonna call her re'cause I, have a friend whose name is Marie and call Re, and I was like, that's perfect. And I just felt like it even has a kind of fun and re is fun and she's just. A party girl that is thrust into a political game and she does have a heart of gold underneath it all. She's a brat. Yes, definitely. But yeah, so she's the center and Marie is the saint.

Jane 17:26

Yeah. Love that. I, so this your answer also like segues into so I have writing questions now.

Kayla 17:32

Yes.

Jane 17:33

This is a dual timeline story told from alternating perspectives. I'm always interested in narrative structure. Okay. Did you always intend to write it that way? Was that the plan from the start? So if, okay,

Kayla 17:47

So Go ahead.

Jane 17:48

No, go ahead.

Kayla 17:49

That's a fun question because I wish my editor was here because when this book was acquired, it was, I'm spelling all Latino. It was Marie re the whole way through. And even as I finished, I knew, okay, this is, good enough to self was like I myself was like, who is the main character here? And again, I wanted to do things a little bit differently in Quarter Queen.'cause again, I wanted to break some stereotypes that we see off, we see well enough, but we don't often see a woman in her forties who's a mother like, especially in fantasy. Who is the main character instead of often the mother is dead and she's the princess inherit a legacy. It's no, mom and, and everybody else is hot. Everyone's hot running around here. So we, Natalie Ter who's fantastic was like, yeah, we need to scale her chapter back a bit. Center Reid, because she's a more modern voice here. Which it always had that maturation story of re was gonna grow. Into a full grown woman. And so in order to bring that forward, we did a lot of moving stuff around. And finally it was like, Hey, Marie gets the prologue'cause we gotta know who the quarter queen is. She gets that great line at the end, the kind of zinger and then re re and then an inciting incident with the coma, which is, it really works out. Then it's like back to the past, it's oh, okay. It feels like a proper kind of part two for a book.

Jane 19:00

Yeah. I, it's really well structured and I thank you. It's so funny you mentioned inciting incident. Yeah. I think a lot about like plot and structure, planning out stories and it just, yeah. I, it was, it's so interesting. Thank

Kayla 19:11

you.

Jane 19:11

People's approach and how it's done.

19:13

That's

Kayla 19:14

the fun part.

Jane 19:15

I

Kayla 19:15

love, I love clotting, instruc. It's frustrating. It's probably the most frustrating part. It's the most rewarding though. That's when it works, you're like, it works. Yeah,

Jane 19:22

yeah. It's like I was describing to someone as like building a puzzle and then trying to have to solve it, yes.

Kayla 19:29

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Jane 19:30

Exactly. Yeah. So you, this started, this is your debut novel, but you've, done all sorts of writing. This started as a TV pilot. When you decided or ended up turning it into long form fiction? What was your process? We just talked about obviously it sounds like you plot things out. I do. What's your writing process like?

Kayla 19:49

I'm a plotter, so I think the fun thing for me is I'm a visual learner. And seems occurred to me like visually. A lot of writers talk about this, like where it's kinda like a head movie. It's like it's, I see it. I think the trouble is it comes to having to make that make sense. So I think it's the very well willed screen on a routine of we've all heard about this, like the note cards and then the scenes and then you just put them in the order they need to go. A lot of that lent itself to Quarter Queen, which thank you like cinematics, like that's such a huge compliment.'cause I think a lot of that helped with making, it's a complex novel in many ways. And so having to elucidate that for readers and. Or even myself, the editor for the team at Valentine okay, lots of great feedback went into this, but I write out an outline. And then knowing that's probably just the Bible and that things will shift, characters will do things and you're like okay, that's good. I'm listening. A good author will listen and then that will change plot things and so then we have to go and adjust that. So just understanding in the overarching goal, this was dual timeline. Once we satisfied and moved. Marie's chapters of Round and then really centered, new Orleans as a character and really re'cause I would say the weird thing is that we had to have just enough time to make you care about, but also have questions about Marie, but also show like the mother-daughter relationship because once she's in the coma, she's not actively there with Marie, but it feels like it like she's this ghost haunting her actively. So yeah, I think. An outline. And then I'd also do a playlist with music, very music focused. And then I will literally sometimes make a mood board and just mood board scenes out, almost like a director, like a shot list. And that really helps me sometimes when you get stumped and writer's block.'cause you know as well as I better than me. You gotta write on deadline. Like they don't care about the writer's block.

Jane 21:33

No.

Kayla 21:35

The baby is due.

Jane 21:36

That's right. That's right. So I have a question this question, but I wanna read this from your author's note.

Kayla 21:42

Okay.

Jane 21:42

The events of this book are an alternate history that exist within a heightened second reality. Just a skew of the real 19th century New Orleans. Represented in a fantastical context. This is a world that is both horrifically, like the one we know and the one we do not. And I've had a lot of historical fiction authors, just historical fiction. I think Sarah Penner is one of the, one of the only one historical fantasy authors I've had on so I'm modifying my question. Okay. When writing, how did you balance like creating this world which is based on history but has elements. Of fantasy as well. And did you find all of that challenging? Was it freeing? Was it just a balancing act?

Kayla 22:25

Freeing is the word. Yeah. No pun intended. It's like very much a free, very much a freeing thing because it's a historical, and. Even tackling your re levo, it just makes it a historical automatically. So you just have to know how to do 19th century New Orleans and hopefully it's done well.

Speaker 3 22:39

Oh yeah.

Kayla 22:39

But when you do a fantasy, there are conventions, fantasy reader are expecting like a magic system and really having to make Moody very clear in here, but I felt like being a fantasy allowed me license to just heighten. Things that people are already expecting from New Orleans. So again, we talked about demons and spirits. Okay? So if you think you, no, demons are definitely real in Quin. We see one right away in the prologue, right? Possession is real. The lower are real. Alchemy is real. But again, those things function as a metaphor because guess what also is real? That is in this world, racism, right? Misogyny so many other things. We only have into the horrors, eugenics. That the brotherhood kind of represents like the idea of like night doctors and eugenics and the clan, but also the Freemasons. And I was like, what if we could twist all that up and put them into this kind of horrific fraternal. Because again, white fraternal war have always existed and I'm like, okay, so Quarter Queen.'cause again, the Freemasons actually, and I'm not picking on them'cause again, I'm not saying the brotherhood is the Freemasons, they existed in New Orleans right. Alongside the church. Like the, this is perfect factional because again, I understood the fantasy convention is the factional kind of warfare here. That should function as a great metaphor for real life politics and Absolutely. Again, we talked about this earlier of I have the opinion like. One should not seek power. It's kinda like the game that's nothing John. No. It's if you seek power, you probably are already corrupted, but the man who doesn't seek power, a woman in his case will struggle, but will probably learn to do the right thing because they didn't want it in the first place. Yeah.

Jane 24:03

Interesting. Yeah. Fascinating. I, I have to ask a movie related question because my family, I have two daughters and my husband, we're all like huge movie people and one of our favorite movies this year or the past few years is Sinners. Yes,

Kayla 24:17

yes. Come on.

Jane 24:17

Yeah. Come on. You. You used that as a comp. And I was like, oh yeah, I totally saw that. I perfect comp. It was, I'm so glad Michael B. Jordan won the Oscar.

Kayla 24:29

Me too.

Jane 24:30

Oh my God. My. So pumped for him. Is there any movie or television interest yet, or can you not

Kayla 24:40

say, we can't say a whole lot. We're, I'll put it this way, we're out the show runners and so yeah. It's funny because I had a couple of name producers approach me before I was rep. And again, you maybe talk, about that. Like you never wanna get into that without having a rep. And it can, you'll live to regret it. But big time, trust me, like all good deals are not good deals. But that being said a little bit, and so we're trying navigate the TV stuff, but it's weird because. Already existed before sin came out. And then when that matter was like perfect talk, she was like, I just saw Senator. I was perfect. Perfect. No sin, no saints. But listen, just that in itself showing that I'm so happy a genre movie one, but just showing that, genre can be used and a genre like as in like fantasy or horror. Yes.

Speaker 3 25:25

Is

Kayla 25:25

a great way to get into the metaphor.'cause sometimes we just give people, so it's like with the medicine, the candy, with the medicine, we just give it to you straight sometimes and no chaser. The me it can seem heavy. Or even overly wrought, but having some kind of fantastical element to hang your hat on, I think allows readers to, I don't know, to digest it. And I hate to say the word palatable, but I think it, what it is just a slow digestion of heavy themes. So I was so happy about centers and love them. Love,

Jane 25:54

yeah. Great timing.

Kayla 25:56

Yeah. So Mr. Kler wants Come this way. Come on,

Jane 26:00

right. Oh yeah. He would be perfect.

Kayla 26:02

Perfect. I know. Perfect.

Jane 26:05

Talking about the director and producer and writer, did he do it all? Three, I think right? Cou Ryan,

Kayla 26:09

yes. Proximity is a company. Him and his wife and Seb, they did Zzi. Howorth. They produced it. He directed and he wrote, and I'm like, dang, the Trinity.

Jane 26:20

I know, honestly how talented.

Kayla 26:22

I know. And humble.

Jane 26:24

Yes, very. Again, movie question. If you had a, you did a vision board, who would play Marie and who would play re in your in your like,

Kayla 26:34

Like your

Jane 26:34

wishlist?

Kayla 26:35

This is also a fun question because we definitely have talk about casting and in my mind. Perfect. And she'll hopefully forgive me for this Tandy Newton and I think she pronounces it now as 10 D way just pictured her. I dunno if you ever saw Westwell. Yes. Mave, she was and then she also had done Beloved, and so like you can, but I think the twist here is that she's a free woman, so not retreading the same territory, but like my agent had a great idea that like her daughter. Oh my daughter.

Jane 26:57

Yes.

Kayla 26:58

Yeah. Yeah. And it looked so much alike. I was like, actually it would be a great idea.

Jane 27:00

Oh, that's a great idea.

Kayla 27:01

I also just throwing it out there.

Jane 27:03

Yeah, the do fan Newton's daughter was in the last of us, right? Yes. Yeah.

Kayla 27:07

Very lovely.

Jane 27:08

Oh, excellent. Excellent choices. Get on

Speaker 3 27:11

that. Thank you. I know. I'm like, come up with this. Get on.

Jane 27:14

Right,

Speaker 3 27:14

because I am girl.

Jane 27:17

So how different was the process of writing a novel composed compared to the other types of writing you'd done specifically? Specifically screenplays, but I know you've also done academic writing. So how different was that for you?

Kayla 27:28

I think in screenplays and I, it's a, when you run a screenplay, you have certain conventions, so whether you're frustrated by it or not, like the 90 page feature, I'm also a TV writer, those have its own rules, but like again, if we're just picking on features, movie writing, the 90 to, it really is trending smaller. I used to, could go up to 120. Can't really do that. Nowadays it's really a hundred to 90 pages. People like the Lean machine. But visually driven, you cannot give interiority of a character's thoughts. Sometimes you can break those rules. So I really learned with screenwriting how to get to the Harvard character. Story beats, set pieces. Very technically minded. I think the problem with screenplays though, is that they can read dry sometimes. Same thing, because we're just worried like, I can't break. You can break any rule. So long as you understand the rule. Same with fiction. And so I think that gave you a great framework to work from. And then again, going back to now writing, which is my first thing. I like to be indulgent, and so I used to get picked on my screen like, this is too, in screenwriting you just really use the kind of lush voice and, sometimes you hope it doesn't go purple, but I really love getting to do interiority and letting the characters and the settings kind of coalesce and breathe and leaning in. I would say I really just enjoyed the idea of leaning in and running a novel. Of course it takes longer, it's probably more work as if a lot of people have gotten into Ooh, this is a lot. It is a lot. And then it becomes even more of a lot when you have to deliver on a deadline. Yeah. And then pe you know, and it's crazy. When it's different process, when you know a book is contracted. People are gonna see this and you're gonna get notes. I would say that the thing that remains the same is that you will get notes. Notes are not going away. And I learned that on the screenwriting side. And so understanding that novel writing is a team sport. Because I think there's miscon conception, in Hollywood there's a saying like, if you don't like this, go be a novelist. As if it's so easy. But it's guided that you go write in a broom closet. Now I do write in a broom closet, but when I come out of it, there's a lot of team sporting. There's the editor notes and we Yes. On the call and understanding that they're there to help you with your story, but also it's your mutual baby and that you have, even if you disagree with the note, there's usually a note behind the note. And interrogating your own work is very important and your editor is your friend, not your enemy. But yes. So just learning all of that and really. I just embraced the process. Like I would say one of the most rewarding parts of this was getting work from my editor Natalie.'cause we we would just rapid fire pitch back and forth and, in that feeling when it's working. Ooh.

Jane 29:48

Yeah. That's the best. It's the best,

Kayla 29:51

yes.

Jane 29:51

Yeah. And that's really good. Advice actually.'cause I don't, I, you have in this, in, in this business. At the end of the day, I always say the book is a product, right? And you're working with the team to make it the best product. That you can make it. So that you'll, it'll find it, find its audience, so I think that's really good advice. What is, what other advice do you have for aspiring writers out there? I know we have a lot of aspiring writers who listen to the podcast.

Kayla 30:15

So do we have enough time? No, seriously. I think what has been very important for me, and it's crazy because I didn't get wrapped until I was 30 and I started at 18 and I really wanted that and got close to the book deal at 24. It can take you 10 years. And oftentimes, you know this, the first advice someone gives you now that is that your first book is probably not gonna be the one that's published. I would say I thought, oh, here I can be the no. And by the way, thank God for that because I had enough time to develop, because,

Jane 30:45

yep.

Kayla 30:46

Okay. So I probably shouldn't say more on that, but thank God. And what I mean to say is that even if it takes you 10, 12 years, the time will pass anyways. So please just focus on your craft. And I also have, you have to have a good sense of if this feels ready, understanding the writing will change again. That's it. You have to accept that. If you can accept that, you probably should not be writing books. It will change, I think the caveats that is for the better. So yes. Relinquish control in that sense.

Jane 31:15

Yep. And have a thicker skin. I think

Kayla 31:17

too. I have a thicker skin because you'll get notes and the notes will have notes and they're not going away. They're never going away. And then when you think they're going away, then you're gonna get feedback, then you're gonna get good reviews, then you're gonna get, it's just every, you're a public figure now.

Jane 31:30

Yep. Exactly. Yes. Good, good. Excellent advice. Are you ready to talk about what you're working on next?

Kayla 31:36

Yes. So I have a horror movie that I'm working on about a cove of witches, kinda like with mommy issues. Can't say more than that.

Jane 31:41

Okay.

Kayla 31:42

Really hot about that. And then I have a short story. The agency they at ve they do a lot of those that's in the can and ready to go. And a horror one about addiction, a present day of the Shining Oh. Set in the American South. It was really fun. And, south Carolina and then the sequel to the Quarter Queens. Hopefully soon Natalie and I will get started on that, so yeah.

Jane 32:00

Oh, excellent.

Kayla 32:01

Yeah.

Jane 32:01

Congratulations on all of that.

Kayla 32:02

Thank you. Thank you.

Jane 32:03

How best can readers stay in touch with you

Kayla 32:07

Instagram for sure. Okay. You can be on TikTok a little bit, but ever since Rebought, no, not really. So I'm just on Instagram, like Kayla go literally oh oh, Kayla, go. That's it. Okay. So yeah, you can find me there. DM me, tag me, whatever. Yeah, I'll get to it.

Jane 32:22

Awesome. This has been delightful. Kayla. I'm so excited for you. Thank you. Congratulations again. The quarter of Queen releases March 31st from Valentine. My latest novel from Lake Union is the Women of Arlington Hall. Don't forget to follow happy hour wherever you listen to podcasts or subscribe to my YouTube channel, and thank you so much again, Kayla. Congratulations on this. Beautiful story. The

Kayla 32:44

Thank you. Jane.