{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":0.84,"endTime":3.3,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":0.84,"endTime":3.3,"body":"joining us on discover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3.3,"endTime":8.49,"body":"economics. How did I get here?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3.3,"endTime":8.49,"body":"podcast? Just who? Or what is an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":8.49,"endTime":12.15,"body":"economist, there's an economic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":8.49,"endTime":12.15,"body":"lens for every topic that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":12.15,"endTime":15.36,"body":"can possibly think of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":12.15,"endTime":15.36,"body":"economists in our podcast are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":15.36,"endTime":19.53,"body":"motivated by a desire to change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":15.36,"endTime":19.53,"body":"the world. 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And from 2004 to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":115.23,"endTime":119.82,"body":"2017. She was executive director"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.82,"endTime":123.54,"body":"of the Abdul Latif Jameel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":119.82,"endTime":123.54,"body":"poverty action lab known as j"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.54,"endTime":127.41,"body":"pal at MIT, and that's part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":123.54,"endTime":127.41,"body":"the economics department"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.41,"endTime":131.13,"body":"Research Centre seeks to reduce"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":127.41,"endTime":131.13,"body":"poverty by ensuring policies"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":131.13,"endTime":134.85,"body":"informed by scientific evidence,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":131.13,"endTime":134.85,"body":"which I'm sure will touch upon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":135.12,"endTime":139.17,"body":"during this. Hi, Rachel, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":135.12,"endTime":139.17,"body":"lovely to meet you. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":139.17,"endTime":143.19,"body":"for taking the time to tell us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":139.17,"endTime":143.19,"body":"exactly how you got to your so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.49,"body":"I'm going to dive in with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.19,"endTime":146.49,"body":"intrusive questions first. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":146.49,"endTime":150.18,"body":"let's start with the beginning."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":146.49,"endTime":150.18,"body":"Where did you grew up? So I grew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":150.18,"endTime":154.74,"body":"up in West London, in Hounslow."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":150.18,"endTime":154.74,"body":"What kind of school did you go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":154.74,"endTime":157.62,"body":"to? 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I went to my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.94,"endTime":168.21,"body":"local Comprehensive School,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":164.94,"endTime":168.21,"body":"which was called physic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.21,"endTime":173.49,"body":"community school I had liked, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.21,"endTime":173.49,"body":"had this funny combination of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":173.49,"endTime":176.97,"body":"like it, which I took turns out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":173.49,"endTime":176.97,"body":"is actually quite, quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":176.97,"endTime":182.4,"body":"predictive of being of enjoying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":176.97,"endTime":182.4,"body":"economics. I liked both maths"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.49,"endTime":188.1,"body":"and history. So I was in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":182.49,"endTime":188.1,"body":"big dilemma about what I should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":188.1,"endTime":192.39,"body":"do with my life and what I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":188.1,"endTime":192.39,"body":"good at. And people would say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":192.39,"endTime":194.88,"body":"well, your current my history"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":192.39,"endTime":194.88,"body":"teachers would say, I know you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":194.88,"endTime":198.9,"body":"like history, but not really a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":194.88,"endTime":198.9,"body":"history person. And you know, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.9,"endTime":201.54,"body":"science teacher so far, you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":198.9,"endTime":201.54,"body":"you know, you're not bad at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.54,"endTime":205.5,"body":"science, Rachel, but you're kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":201.54,"endTime":205.5,"body":"of really a scientists either."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":205.5,"endTime":206.55,"body":"What am I?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":207.69,"endTime":208.74,"body":"That's horrifying."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.39,"endTime":214.32,"body":"I discovered social science."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.39,"endTime":214.32,"body":"That's what I am. I'm this thing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.32,"endTime":218.64,"body":"that's like somewhere between"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":214.32,"endTime":218.64,"body":"humanities and science. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.64,"endTime":222.51,"body":"love chemistry, for example. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":218.64,"endTime":222.51,"body":"I was quite good at Mass. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.51,"endTime":225.3,"body":"know, I didn't do further maths,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":222.51,"endTime":225.3,"body":"for example, though, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":225.3,"endTime":228.78,"body":"really liked history. And I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":225.3,"endTime":228.78,"body":"liked history, though. 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It's interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.97,"endTime":287.37,"body":"because we've got, we've got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":284.97,"endTime":287.37,"body":"question further down, that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.37,"endTime":290.52,"body":"can jump back and forth to them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.37,"endTime":290.52,"body":"But it is that you know, people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.52,"endTime":293.49,"body":"have this idea or this pigeon"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.52,"endTime":293.49,"body":"hole that they put economics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.49,"endTime":296.64,"body":"into, and I definitely think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":293.49,"endTime":296.64,"body":"there's a bit of work to be done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.64,"endTime":299.58,"body":"just so that even teachers and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.64,"endTime":299.58,"body":"parents understand that. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":299.58,"endTime":299.97,"body":"not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.57,"endTime":305.34,"body":"Math, stats and money. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":300.57,"endTime":305.34,"body":"there's so many other elements"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.34,"endTime":308.31,"body":"to it. Actually, that leads me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":305.34,"endTime":308.31,"body":"on to my next question. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.43,"endTime":311.97,"body":"you've been involved in such a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":308.43,"endTime":311.97,"body":"wide spectrum of really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.97,"endTime":315.18,"body":"important research and policy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.97,"endTime":315.18,"body":"And, and I listened to an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.18,"endTime":317.88,"body":"interview that you did a couple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.18,"endTime":317.88,"body":"of years ago, where you talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.88,"endTime":320.07,"body":"about jumping from both sides"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":317.88,"endTime":320.07,"body":"that you know, getting been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.07,"endTime":323.13,"body":"involved in the policy, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.07,"endTime":323.13,"body":"research and how those two work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":323.13,"endTime":326.31,"body":"together? 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And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.37,"endTime":340.68,"body":"as you say, I think that my, my,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.37,"endTime":340.68,"body":"my skill is I, you know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.68,"endTime":344.1,"body":"the best researcher in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":340.68,"endTime":344.1,"body":"world, I'm not the best policy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.1,"endTime":347.43,"body":"person in the world. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":344.1,"endTime":347.43,"body":"quite good at translating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.43,"endTime":351.3,"body":"between the two, which is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":347.43,"endTime":351.3,"body":"important. 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But it has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.55,"endTime":376.14,"body":"implications for what we should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.55,"endTime":376.14,"body":"do. So maybe it was a study in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.14,"endTime":380.22,"body":"different country? Or, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":376.14,"endTime":380.22,"body":"it was asking a slightly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":380.22,"endTime":383.55,"body":"different question. 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There's never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.0,"endTime":480.21,"body":"one thing that comes out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":477.0,"endTime":480.21,"body":"research, like you said, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.21,"endTime":483.33,"body":"it's about almost like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":480.21,"endTime":483.33,"body":"willingness to accept the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":483.33,"endTime":487.41,"body":"complexity, and the different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":483.33,"endTime":487.41,"body":"moving parts, and to still see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.41,"endTime":489.66,"body":"what you can do about it and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.41,"endTime":489.66,"body":"still see what you can do with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.66,"endTime":492.81,"body":"it, even if it's not perfect."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":489.66,"endTime":492.81,"body":"Well, the next question I had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.81,"endTime":497.67,"body":"was, how has your work changed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":492.81,"endTime":497.67,"body":"in going from GPL to deferred"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":497.7,"endTime":500.91,"body":"and now foreign Commonwealth"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":497.7,"endTime":500.91,"body":"development office? Because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.94,"endTime":504.78,"body":"they're quite different places."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":500.94,"endTime":504.78,"body":"But I do see a through line. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.78,"endTime":508.41,"body":"how do you feel your day to day"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":504.78,"endTime":508.41,"body":"job has changed across those?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":508.59,"endTime":512.55,"body":"Yeah, I mean, my job has changed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":508.59,"endTime":512.55,"body":"a lot. You know, I set up I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.55,"endTime":517.23,"body":"basically help set up and run"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":512.55,"endTime":517.23,"body":"this research centre, which was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.23,"endTime":520.95,"body":"from the beginning, meant to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":517.23,"endTime":520.95,"body":"connecting research to policy."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.1,"endTime":528.3,"body":"But you know, we decided who to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":521.1,"endTime":528.3,"body":"hire. I am my team decided how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.3,"endTime":532.23,"body":"much to pay people and how they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":528.3,"endTime":532.23,"body":"would get promoted in things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":532.23,"endTime":536.46,"body":"like that. And now I'm in a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":532.23,"endTime":536.46,"body":"bureaucracy, where all of that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.46,"endTime":541.65,"body":"is organised for me. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":536.46,"endTime":541.65,"body":"get a say into it. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.76,"endTime":547.35,"body":"You've got to navigate and try"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":542.76,"endTime":547.35,"body":"and persuade people, that this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.35,"endTime":551.16,"body":"is the right way to do things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":547.35,"endTime":551.16,"body":"On the other hand, the budgets"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.16,"endTime":554.85,"body":"are completely different. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":551.16,"endTime":554.85,"body":"I mean, we're spending in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.88,"endTime":560.64,"body":"order of 10 billion pounds a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":554.88,"endTime":560.64,"body":"year on aid. And I, you know, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.64,"endTime":564.15,"body":"have part of my job is to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":560.64,"endTime":564.15,"body":"about, well, which countries do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":564.15,"endTime":564.93,"body":"we spend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.1,"endTime":570.84,"body":"aid on? Like, which countries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":566.1,"endTime":570.84,"body":"should we prioritise? How much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.84,"endTime":574.2,"body":"money should we spend on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":570.84,"endTime":574.2,"body":"education versus health? And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.2,"endTime":579.03,"body":"those are huge, you know, those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":574.2,"endTime":579.03,"body":"are really big questions. Much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.03,"endTime":583.53,"body":"kind of bigger questions, then."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.03,"endTime":583.53,"body":"Is this the best way to teach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.01,"endTime":586.89,"body":"children or is this the best way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.01,"endTime":586.89,"body":"to teach children? Why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.97,"endTime":592.5,"body":"should we give the money to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":587.97,"endTime":592.5,"body":"Malawi or India that still has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.5,"endTime":596.79,"body":"lot of poor people but but is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":592.5,"endTime":596.79,"body":"you know, much richer? Yeah, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.79,"endTime":599.94,"body":"know, and that say the budgets"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":596.79,"endTime":599.94,"body":"are completely different."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.539,"endTime":604.649,"body":"And and the scale of question,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":600.539,"endTime":604.649,"body":"it's different. But what is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.649,"endTime":611.009,"body":"say in his saying, We've got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":604.649,"endTime":611.009,"body":"make a decision, we got to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.009,"endTime":616.409,"body":"about what is the best evidence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":611.009,"endTime":616.409,"body":"that we have? What data? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.439,"endTime":620.579,"body":"information can we bring to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":616.439,"endTime":620.579,"body":"making that decision? Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":620.579,"endTime":622.979,"body":"it's what kind of be perfect,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":620.579,"endTime":622.979,"body":"we're not gonna know all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.979,"endTime":625.469,"body":"answers, but we have to make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.979,"endTime":625.469,"body":"decision. And I think what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.529,"endTime":630.479,"body":"autonomous are good at and what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":625.529,"endTime":630.479,"body":"economics teaches you to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.479,"endTime":634.409,"body":"about is saying, is making those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":630.479,"endTime":634.409,"body":"trade offs. It's all about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.409,"endTime":637.739,"body":"trade. Right? economics is all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":634.409,"endTime":637.739,"body":"about thinking through trade"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.739,"endTime":641.429,"body":"offs. It's not that something's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.739,"endTime":641.429,"body":"good. And I think bad, both of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.429,"endTime":644.309,"body":"them are good, but we got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":641.429,"endTime":644.309,"body":"choose between them. So how do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.309,"endTime":648.629,"body":"we make that choice and thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":644.309,"endTime":648.629,"body":"really carefully and structure?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":648.659,"endTime":651.779,"body":"You know, putting some structure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":648.659,"endTime":651.779,"body":"on the question sort of, well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":651.779,"endTime":655.979,"body":"how can we break down the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":651.779,"endTime":655.979,"body":"question? What data can help us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.979,"endTime":661.709,"body":"think about a question that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":655.979,"endTime":661.709,"body":"has stayed the same through all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.709,"endTime":666.299,"body":"the all the jobs that I've done,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":661.709,"endTime":666.299,"body":"incredibly challenging, and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.299,"endTime":669.659,"body":"just incredibly challenging? But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":666.299,"endTime":669.659,"body":"obviously, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.689,"endTime":673.409,"body":"responsibility that comes along"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":669.689,"endTime":673.409,"body":"with that. And I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.409,"endTime":677.669,"body":"something I talked to Ben to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":673.409,"endTime":677.669,"body":"independent journalist,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.879,"endTime":682.229,"body":"economics even. And we were, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.879,"endTime":682.229,"body":"were talking about how you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.259,"endTime":685.289,"body":"you can give people the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":682.259,"endTime":685.289,"body":"information, and then you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.289,"endTime":689.099,"body":"to be willing to, like I said,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":685.289,"endTime":689.099,"body":"kind of accept that accept the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.099,"endTime":693.179,"body":"limitations. And I'd be able to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.099,"endTime":693.179,"body":"also communicate to people why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.179,"endTime":695.849,"body":"you're making that decision, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":693.179,"endTime":695.849,"body":"imagine that's quite a difficult"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":695.849,"endTime":698.729,"body":"part of your job. That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":695.849,"endTime":698.729,"body":"potentially not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.729,"endTime":704.729,"body":"changed from GPL. But I suppose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":698.729,"endTime":704.729,"body":"there's much more scrutiny on on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.729,"endTime":708.329,"body":"the decisions I like to see from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":704.729,"endTime":708.329,"body":"the media anyway, in the UK,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.569,"endTime":711.839,"body":"then, you know, once that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":708.569,"endTime":711.839,"body":"decision is made that kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.619,"endTime":717.239,"body":"having to deliver the the why of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":712.619,"endTime":717.239,"body":"it all? How do you find that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.239,"endTime":720.839,"body":"because, obviously, something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":717.239,"endTime":720.839,"body":"that stayed the same through all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.839,"endTime":723.449,"body":"of the interviews I've watched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.839,"endTime":723.449,"body":"with you and all the all of your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.449,"endTime":726.059,"body":"message about, look, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":723.449,"endTime":726.059,"body":"research based, like if the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.059,"endTime":728.729,"body":"information changes, then we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":726.059,"endTime":728.729,"body":"change our decision we're not,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.059,"endTime":733.769,"body":"it's not aligned to a particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.059,"endTime":733.769,"body":"ideology, it's we're constantly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.769,"endTime":738.629,"body":"re evaluating the information."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":733.769,"endTime":738.629,"body":"How do you get people in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.629,"endTime":741.509,"body":"public? Or how do you get the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.629,"endTime":741.509,"body":"public? Do you understand that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.509,"endTime":744.989,"body":"side of it? Yeah. So I think I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":741.509,"endTime":744.989,"body":"mean, a lot of my messaging,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.989,"endTime":749.249,"body":"frankly, is less to the public"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":744.989,"endTime":749.249,"body":"and more to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.249,"endTime":753.179,"body":"politicians and senior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":749.249,"endTime":753.179,"body":"officials. And what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":753.179,"endTime":756.569,"body":"interesting is, there's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":753.179,"endTime":756.569,"body":"different audiences, like I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.569,"endTime":760.379,"body":"speak to very different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.569,"endTime":760.379,"body":"audiences at different times, my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":760.379,"endTime":766.139,"body":"day or my week. Yeah, I talk a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":760.379,"endTime":766.139,"body":"lot to students and sort of in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":766.139,"endTime":770.339,"body":"public and I use is not one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":766.139,"endTime":770.339,"body":"language, but I use a slightly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.339,"endTime":773.549,"body":"different style, just because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":770.339,"endTime":773.549,"body":"you can't assume that you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.549,"endTime":777.569,"body":"use technical terms and assume"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.549,"endTime":777.569,"body":"that people know what they need."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.629,"endTime":781.109,"body":"I don't say how some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.629,"endTime":781.109,"body":"times I was talking, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":781.109,"endTime":785.429,"body":"to other academic economists,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":781.109,"endTime":785.429,"body":"and then interests switch into,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.579,"endTime":790.199,"body":"we all know that we know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":785.579,"endTime":790.199,"body":"countries are poor, or we know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.439,"endTime":795.389,"body":"what we mean by comparative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":790.439,"endTime":795.389,"body":"advantage. We, we know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.389,"endTime":798.719,"body":"these terms mean. And so we kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":795.389,"endTime":798.719,"body":"of switch into that as a bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.749,"endTime":803.519,"body":"shorthand. And you can kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":798.749,"endTime":803.519,"body":"get to the point, quickly, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.519,"endTime":806.189,"body":"know, then there's talking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":803.519,"endTime":806.189,"body":"the group of between, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.189,"endTime":809.969,"body":"probably who I spend most time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":806.189,"endTime":809.969,"body":"talking to, which is people who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.969,"endTime":814.259,"body":"know some economics. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":809.969,"endTime":814.259,"body":"hopefully, you have a basic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.259,"endTime":817.319,"body":"sense of what I mean by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":814.259,"endTime":817.319,"body":"comparative advantage that some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.319,"endTime":820.889,"body":"countries are better at doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.319,"endTime":820.889,"body":"some things than others, or some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.889,"endTime":824.849,"body":"people are doing better at doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":820.889,"endTime":824.849,"body":"some things and other people are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.849,"endTime":827.999,"body":"better at doing other things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":824.849,"endTime":827.999,"body":"And it's not that somebody is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.999,"endTime":831.389,"body":"better than somebody is worse,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":827.999,"endTime":831.389,"body":"it's what are we relatively good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.389,"endTime":835.109,"body":"at doing? Right? So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.389,"endTime":835.109,"body":"concept, they'll get that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.109,"endTime":839.039,"body":"concept, even if they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":835.109,"endTime":839.039,"body":"know, you know, the detailed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.039,"endTime":842.129,"body":"theory behind it, but they won't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":839.039,"endTime":842.129,"body":"necessarily have thought of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.129,"endTime":846.869,"body":"applying that to a particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":842.129,"endTime":846.869,"body":"problem that they're facing. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.869,"endTime":851.549,"body":"so I'm sort of talking them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":846.869,"endTime":851.549,"body":"through what that means, for a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.549,"endTime":856.439,"body":"particular policy, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.549,"endTime":856.439,"body":"particular problem that they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.439,"endTime":860.219,"body":"trying to solve, and I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":856.439,"endTime":860.219,"body":"that's that sort of intermediate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.219,"endTime":866.999,"body":"group is, is is been a big part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":860.219,"endTime":866.999,"body":"of my work everywhere. So I've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.999,"endTime":871.349,"body":"worked in the International"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.999,"endTime":871.349,"body":"Monetary Fund, I worked in j pal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.379,"endTime":875.849,"body":"j pal a lot of the time I was I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":871.379,"endTime":875.849,"body":"was working, you know, we were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.849,"endTime":879.419,"body":"advising the governments of low"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.849,"endTime":879.419,"body":"and middle income countries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.419,"endTime":883.229,"body":"about how to spend them, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":879.419,"endTime":883.229,"body":"actually, most money that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.229,"endTime":888.299,"body":"spent on poverty reduction is is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.229,"endTime":888.299,"body":"spent by poor countries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.299,"endTime":892.289,"body":"themselves. Yeah. So trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":888.299,"endTime":892.289,"body":"advise them is actually a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.289,"endTime":896.519,"body":"part of what I do what I used to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":892.289,"endTime":896.519,"body":"do and still what I do now I you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.519,"endTime":899.969,"body":"know, a lot of what we're trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":896.519,"endTime":899.969,"body":"to do is encourage them to to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.0,"endTime":904.23,"body":"To improve their policies, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":900.0,"endTime":904.23,"body":"that's where you can, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.23,"endTime":907.53,"body":"rely on people knowing a little"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":904.23,"endTime":907.53,"body":"bit of economics. But you, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.53,"endTime":911.55,"body":"have to explain why it matters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.53,"endTime":911.55,"body":"for this particular decision,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.55,"endTime":915.0,"body":"which might be I mean, a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":911.55,"endTime":915.0,"body":"example is we've had lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.0,"endTime":918.15,"body":"discussions about China"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":915.0,"endTime":918.15,"body":"recently, people tend to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.15,"endTime":921.72,"body":"about China entirely, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":918.15,"endTime":921.72,"body":"a lot through a kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.72,"endTime":926.25,"body":"political lens. And they might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":921.72,"endTime":926.25,"body":"worry about the the economy and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.28,"endTime":928.8,"body":"you know, China's growing, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":926.28,"endTime":928.8,"body":"having a big influence in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.8,"endTime":933.03,"body":"world economy. But I try and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":928.8,"endTime":933.03,"body":"explain how a lot of the things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":933.03,"endTime":935.73,"body":"that people find worrying about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":933.03,"endTime":935.73,"body":"China is just standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.73,"endTime":939.3,"body":"economics, like the fact that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":935.73,"endTime":939.3,"body":"they are lending a lot of money."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.36,"endTime":943.92,"body":"And Africa is just what you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":939.36,"endTime":943.92,"body":"would expect any country that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":943.92,"endTime":949.23,"body":"has been running a current"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":943.92,"endTime":949.23,"body":"account surplus it has been, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.32,"endTime":952.89,"body":"another way to put it has been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":949.32,"endTime":952.89,"body":"saving a lot. Yeah, I need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.89,"endTime":956.37,"body":"people save a lot. They got to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":952.89,"endTime":956.37,"body":"put that saving somewhere."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.6,"endTime":960.24,"body":"They put it all around the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":957.6,"endTime":960.24,"body":"world. And that's not a threat."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.27,"endTime":963.51,"body":"That's just because if they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.27,"endTime":963.51,"body":"saving, so it's sort of making"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.51,"endTime":966.36,"body":"something that people might"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.51,"endTime":966.36,"body":"think is political, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.36,"endTime":971.61,"body":"explaining the economics behind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":966.36,"endTime":971.61,"body":"why it's happening. And that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.61,"endTime":975.69,"body":"that that's something I find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":971.61,"endTime":975.69,"body":"really satisfying. Yeah. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.69,"endTime":978.27,"body":"that something like that is so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.69,"endTime":978.27,"body":"interesting, because it can very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.27,"endTime":982.29,"body":"easily, like, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":978.27,"endTime":982.29,"body":"about it in terms of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.29,"endTime":985.08,"body":"the message that students and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":982.29,"endTime":985.08,"body":"parents and like the wider"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.08,"endTime":987.81,"body":"public, I think about it in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":985.08,"endTime":987.81,"body":"terms of the message that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.81,"endTime":991.77,"body":"get. And you're absolutely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":987.81,"endTime":991.77,"body":"right. It's, it's however it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.77,"endTime":995.34,"body":"spun, rather than just taking a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":991.77,"endTime":995.34,"body":"step back and seeing not even"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.34,"endTime":998.13,"body":"the complexity in that in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.34,"endTime":998.13,"body":"necessarily in that example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.13,"endTime":1000.89,"body":"because it's not that it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.13,"endTime":1000.89,"body":"complex, it's just that it's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.89,"endTime":1003.77,"body":"as nefarious as you might think."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1000.89,"endTime":1003.77,"body":"It's just something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.77,"endTime":1006.77,"body":"happens, and you don't need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1003.77,"endTime":1006.77,"body":"worry about it. And it's I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1006.77,"endTime":1009.77,"body":"suppose, then you need to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1006.77,"endTime":1009.77,"body":"about whose voices are trusted,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.92,"endTime":1012.5,"body":"as well, which is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.92,"endTime":1012.5,"body":"important when that message"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.5,"endTime":1016.46,"body":"comes out. And that takes me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1012.5,"endTime":1016.46,"body":"back, I suppose into the whole"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.46,"endTime":1019.76,"body":"point of discover economics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.46,"endTime":1019.76,"body":"which is, you know, getting more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.76,"endTime":1024.02,"body":"diverse voices into the field of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1019.76,"endTime":1024.02,"body":"economics. And I feel that if I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.02,"endTime":1027.44,"body":"mean, not just me, but I suppose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1024.02,"endTime":1027.44,"body":"that the feeling is that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.44,"endTime":1030.68,"body":"more we look at economists who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1027.44,"endTime":1030.68,"body":"end up on the news, or you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.68,"endTime":1033.77,"body":"who are interviewed or who we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.68,"endTime":1033.77,"body":"see more visibly, and we see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.77,"endTime":1038.36,"body":"ourselves represented as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1033.77,"endTime":1038.36,"body":"population, then the more trust,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.36,"endTime":1041.51,"body":"I suppose, can then be built up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1038.36,"endTime":1041.51,"body":"It's a bit like when, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.63,"endTime":1044.63,"body":"women weren't allowed to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.63,"endTime":1044.63,"body":"politicians, and all politicians"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.66,"endTime":1047.9,"body":"are white, and it's dreadful."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.66,"endTime":1047.9,"body":"You know, we need to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.9,"endTime":1052.31,"body":"ourselves represented to feel"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1047.9,"endTime":1052.31,"body":"represented, I suppose. And in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.31,"endTime":1056.75,"body":"that instance, is so one element"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1052.31,"endTime":1056.75,"body":"of that is trust, I think, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1056.75,"endTime":1060.95,"body":"is important. But also, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1056.75,"endTime":1060.95,"body":"we The thing about having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.95,"endTime":1065.0,"body":"diversity in any, in any field"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1060.95,"endTime":1065.0,"body":"is that you get better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.0,"endTime":1068.72,"body":"solutions. You people ask better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1065.0,"endTime":1068.72,"body":"questions, you get better"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.72,"endTime":1072.95,"body":"information. So something that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1068.72,"endTime":1072.95,"body":"wanted to bring up with you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.95,"endTime":1075.95,"body":"you mean, you may or may not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1072.95,"endTime":1075.95,"body":"have, let's say, lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.95,"endTime":1079.58,"body":"stories, or necessarily strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.95,"endTime":1079.58,"body":"opinions on this particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1082.73,"body":"thing, because I know you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1079.58,"endTime":1082.73,"body":"done a lot of work on women's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1082.73,"endTime":1086.15,"body":"empowerment in the developing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1082.73,"endTime":1086.15,"body":"world. But I wanted to just ask"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.61,"body":"you what your experience has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1086.15,"endTime":1088.61,"body":"been, you know, in the field of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.61,"endTime":1091.88,"body":"economics, which is quite male"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1088.61,"endTime":1091.88,"body":"dominated, you know, what has it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.88,"endTime":1095.18,"body":"been like for you as a woman to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1091.88,"endTime":1095.18,"body":"get to such a senior position?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.9,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"You know, what is that been like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.9,"endTime":1098.63,"body":"over the over the years? Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.63,"endTime":1101.3,"body":"I'll start with your last bit of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.63,"endTime":1101.3,"body":"your question, but I'll come"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.3,"endTime":1107.84,"body":"back to why I think diversity is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1101.3,"endTime":1107.84,"body":"important, as well, if I may. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.02,"endTime":1112.4,"body":"what was it like to be a woman?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1108.02,"endTime":1112.4,"body":"I mean, thank goodness, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.43,"endTime":1116.0,"body":"improved. Because I have to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1112.43,"endTime":1116.0,"body":"that there was not a hell of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1120.95,"body":"lot of fun. So there were other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.0,"endTime":1120.95,"body":"there were plenty of other women"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.95,"endTime":1125.09,"body":"doing economics when I was at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1120.95,"endTime":1125.09,"body":"uni. And I went, my first job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.09,"endTime":1127.52,"body":"was at at the Treasury."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.02,"endTime":1132.95,"body":"Government economic service is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1129.02,"endTime":1132.95,"body":"one of the biggest employers of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.95,"endTime":1137.18,"body":"economists in in the UK. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1132.95,"endTime":1137.18,"body":"they train you, which was, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.18,"endTime":1140.51,"body":"know, fantastic. For me. I came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1137.18,"endTime":1140.51,"body":"to graduate and I had this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.51,"endTime":1144.14,"body":"fantastic training, including"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.51,"endTime":1144.14,"body":"them paying for me to go off"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1144.14,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"into a Master's. But it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1144.14,"endTime":1147.74,"body":"tough in the Treasury. When I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.74,"endTime":1151.4,"body":"started, there, were not a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1147.74,"endTime":1151.4,"body":"of women there. I remember"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.4,"endTime":1155.39,"body":"there. Not a lot of senior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1151.4,"endTime":1155.39,"body":"women, there was a group of like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.39,"endTime":1159.35,"body":"four of us, women who sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1155.39,"endTime":1159.35,"body":"started around the same time and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1161.75,"body":"we would always eat lunch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1159.35,"endTime":1161.75,"body":"together. And we sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1167.42,"body":"found this little bond, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1163.67,"endTime":1167.42,"body":"know, but when that group of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.42,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"four kind of dispersed I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1167.42,"endTime":1170.81,"body":"remember literally buying a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1175.4,"body":"television and, and watching the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1170.81,"endTime":1175.4,"body":"World Cup, because it was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.4,"endTime":1179.24,"body":"only thing that got talked about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1175.4,"endTime":1179.24,"body":"at lunch. And was there any of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.24,"endTime":1182.18,"body":"them not as grim? That is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1179.24,"endTime":1182.18,"body":"grabbing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.83,"endTime":1188.84,"body":"the fun. But then Ivan but but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1183.83,"endTime":1188.84,"body":"mean, it was more than that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.84,"endTime":1193.1,"body":"all these subtle things. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.84,"endTime":1193.1,"body":"stupid, simple things that have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.1,"endTime":1196.34,"body":"just made you feel like you had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.1,"endTime":1196.34,"body":"a neon sign over your head"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1196.34,"endTime":1198.71,"body":"thing. Oh my god, it's a woman."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1205.1,"body":"So, you know, stupid things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.0,"endTime":1205.1,"body":"in meetings, and important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.1,"endTime":1208.22,"body":"meetings, the senior people, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1205.1,"endTime":1208.22,"body":"traditional was always the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"senior people went in first, no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1208.22,"endTime":1211.85,"body":"say you're going to go and meet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1215.09,"body":"the minister. Like, the most"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1211.85,"endTime":1215.09,"body":"senior person, we're going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.09,"endTime":1218.66,"body":"first. Except if there was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1215.09,"endTime":1218.66,"body":"woman, and then they would make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.81,"endTime":1223.34,"body":"the women go in first. And so,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1218.81,"endTime":1223.34,"body":"you know, really awkward, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1226.25,"body":"obvious really, actually started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.43,"endTime":1226.25,"body":"and they would like hold the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.25,"endTime":1229.37,"body":"door open. And I kind of walked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.25,"endTime":1229.37,"body":"past 30 people that were more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.37,"endTime":1232.97,"body":"senior than me, and walked in to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1229.37,"endTime":1232.97,"body":"see them. So who sort of looked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1232.97,"endTime":1234.86,"body":"at me when Who the hell yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.14,"endTime":1242.03,"body":"eyes on you? Oh, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1237.14,"endTime":1242.03,"body":"miserable. It's not like that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.03,"endTime":1244.91,"body":"anymore. I came back to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.03,"endTime":1244.91,"body":"civil service sell for a long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.91,"endTime":1249.02,"body":"break. And there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1244.91,"endTime":1249.02,"body":"senior women in that in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.02,"endTime":1252.53,"body":"civil service, including I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1249.02,"endTime":1252.53,"body":"I was the first chief economist,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1257.57,"body":"women to be chief economist at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1253.19,"endTime":1257.57,"body":"defeated and woman to be chief"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.57,"endTime":1261.68,"body":"economist at fc do as a new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1257.57,"endTime":1261.68,"body":"department that was formed out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.68,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"of merging two. So I guess they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1261.68,"endTime":1266.42,"body":"they've only had women, we could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1266.42,"endTime":1267.56,"body":"put it positively like."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1272.69,"body":"So it but but you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1269.39,"endTime":1272.69,"body":"often in meetings, senior"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.69,"endTime":1277.13,"body":"meetings now, you know, I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1272.69,"endTime":1277.13,"body":"never in all male ones. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.16,"endTime":1281.57,"body":"occasionally in all female ones."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1277.16,"endTime":1281.57,"body":"So I mean, all male apart from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.57,"endTime":1281.78,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1288.41,"body":"Better, I think we really, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1283.94,"endTime":1288.41,"body":"know, we have a major problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.41,"endTime":1292.52,"body":"about other forms of diversity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1288.41,"endTime":1292.52,"body":"and economic salutely. Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.52,"endTime":1296.63,"body":"I think it matters not just for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1292.52,"endTime":1296.63,"body":"the represent representation and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.63,"endTime":1301.58,"body":"trust issues that you raised,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1296.63,"endTime":1301.58,"body":"but for what we study and how we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.58,"endTime":1304.4,"body":"think about studying it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1301.58,"endTime":1304.4,"body":"this wasn't particularly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.4,"endTime":1307.76,"body":"economics. But it's just a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1304.4,"endTime":1307.76,"body":"simple example that I gave, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.76,"endTime":1310.85,"body":"mean, I was at the Treasury A"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.76,"endTime":1310.85,"body":"long time ago, and there was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1310.85,"endTime":1315.26,"body":"change to get rid of the poll"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1310.85,"endTime":1315.26,"body":"tax. And it was part of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.26,"endTime":1318.08,"body":"budget, and there was a small,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1315.26,"endTime":1318.08,"body":"only a small number of people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.08,"endTime":1320.9,"body":"work on the budget, and they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.08,"endTime":1320.9,"body":"announced it, Parliament went"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.9,"endTime":1324.62,"body":"into up for because they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1320.9,"endTime":1324.62,"body":"like, you forgot to abolish it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1324.62,"endTime":1325.43,"body":"in Scotland."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1326.72,"endTime":1327.32,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.12,"endTime":1337.58,"body":"nobody realised that it but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1332.12,"endTime":1337.58,"body":"they, you know, it's just, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.58,"endTime":1340.55,"body":"just whereas if there had been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1337.58,"endTime":1340.55,"body":"anyone from Scotland, that team,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.55,"endTime":1343.31,"body":"they would have gone, aha, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1340.55,"endTime":1343.31,"body":"law doesn't apply to us, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.31,"endTime":1347.15,"body":"also have to amend this other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1343.31,"endTime":1347.15,"body":"law. And, you know, there's, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.15,"endTime":1350.39,"body":"mean, that's the sort of, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.15,"endTime":1350.39,"body":"mean, important, but trivial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.39,"endTime":1354.17,"body":"example, in some ways, but, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1350.39,"endTime":1354.17,"body":"know, when we got more diversity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.17,"endTime":1358.79,"body":"into economics, and we started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1354.17,"endTime":1358.79,"body":"talking, you know, there's some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.79,"endTime":1362.75,"body":"really important work going on,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1358.79,"endTime":1362.75,"body":"on LinkedIn, you know, what was,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.08,"endTime":1368.72,"body":"like impacts of the fact that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1363.08,"endTime":1368.72,"body":"African Americans had less"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.93,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"access to higher education or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.93,"endTime":1372.17,"body":"less research opportunities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.17,"endTime":1375.89,"body":"which meant that, you know, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.17,"endTime":1375.89,"body":"you look at, they just have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.89,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"fewer patents. And if you then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1375.89,"endTime":1379.67,"body":"say, Well, if the world had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1383.63,"body":"benefited from the innovation of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1379.67,"endTime":1383.63,"body":"that whole part of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.78,"endTime":1387.53,"body":"community, which wasn't given"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1383.78,"endTime":1387.53,"body":"access, what would the economic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.53,"endTime":1391.79,"body":"impacts will be? Well, I don't I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1387.53,"endTime":1391.79,"body":"think it's, that's the kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.79,"endTime":1397.91,"body":"question that you ask, if you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.79,"endTime":1397.91,"body":"are the first, or one of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.91,"endTime":1403.04,"body":"first black women to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.91,"endTime":1403.04,"body":"to be senior in economics, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.04,"endTime":1406.88,"body":"of these lynching questions came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1403.04,"endTime":1406.88,"body":"out of the, you know, the family"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1406.88,"endTime":1409.49,"body":"stories that raised hypotheses."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.99,"endTime":1414.47,"body":"And so we just have this, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.99,"endTime":1414.47,"body":"mean, apart from just we're not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1419.42,"body":"tapping the important expertise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1414.47,"endTime":1419.42,"body":"across our communities, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.42,"endTime":1424.31,"body":"not, we're gonna ask bias"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1419.42,"endTime":1424.31,"body":"questions. Absolutely. And it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.61,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"because I talked about, or have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1424.61,"endTime":1427.97,"body":"talked about diversity in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1431.3,"body":"workplace for a long time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1427.97,"endTime":1431.3,"body":"just personally, because I grew"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1431.3,"endTime":1433.97,"body":"up in the northeast of Scotland"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1431.3,"endTime":1433.97,"body":"have worked in the oil industry,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1437.81,"body":"and then move to London worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1437.81,"body":"in media, and in quite male"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.81,"endTime":1442.28,"body":"environments. But, you know, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1437.81,"endTime":1442.28,"body":"a white straight woman, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.28,"endTime":1445.37,"body":"know, like you said, you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1442.28,"endTime":1445.37,"body":"some of those battles to fight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.37,"endTime":1449.51,"body":"and thankfully, not really any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1445.37,"endTime":1449.51,"body":"more quite so much. But I had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.51,"endTime":1453.68,"body":"easy, you know, compared to a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1449.51,"endTime":1453.68,"body":"million other people, but I, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.68,"endTime":1456.35,"body":"we think about all of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1453.68,"endTime":1456.35,"body":"populations that we don't talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.35,"endTime":1459.68,"body":"about so much like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.35,"endTime":1459.68,"body":"being disabled, physical"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.68,"endTime":1462.29,"body":"disability and mental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1459.68,"endTime":1462.29,"body":"disability, and what, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.29,"endTime":1465.02,"body":"difference would that make?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1462.29,"endTime":1465.02,"body":"Because what's coming out of all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.02,"endTime":1469.58,"body":"of these interviews, for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1465.02,"endTime":1469.58,"body":"podcast is how personal all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.58,"endTime":1474.5,"body":"this stuff really is. I talked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.58,"endTime":1474.5,"body":"to Ben earlier about he did an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.5,"endTime":1477.62,"body":"episode of a podcast about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.5,"endTime":1477.62,"body":"welfare state and you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1477.62,"endTime":1481.16,"body":"different elements of, of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1477.62,"endTime":1481.16,"body":"economics of thought. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.16,"endTime":1484.52,"body":"were talking about how well"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1481.16,"endTime":1484.52,"body":"Wouldn't it be great if one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.52,"endTime":1486.95,"body":"the people or more than one of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1484.52,"endTime":1486.95,"body":"the people working on that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.95,"endTime":1490.79,"body":"research had lived through"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1486.95,"endTime":1490.79,"body":"welfare on being on welfare, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.79,"endTime":1493.55,"body":"we make sure that people have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.79,"endTime":1493.55,"body":"that experience. You don't only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.55,"endTime":1496.64,"body":"need thought, but it does make a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1493.55,"endTime":1496.64,"body":"difference if you've got one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.64,"endTime":1499.97,"body":"person and I suppose it's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1496.64,"endTime":1499.97,"body":"same for things like make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1504.47,"body":"decisions around policies around"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1500.0,"endTime":1504.47,"body":"disability and access and all of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.47,"endTime":1508.67,"body":"those types of things. So what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1504.47,"endTime":1508.67,"body":"what do you think that? What do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1508.67,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"you think that schools and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1508.67,"endTime":1511.58,"body":"universities and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.58,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"being at the top of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1511.58,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"particularly, kind of, yes, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1517.7,"body":"a marriage department, but the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1517.7,"body":"whole department that's, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.7,"endTime":1520.61,"body":"know, got a long history, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1517.7,"endTime":1520.61,"body":"traditional, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1520.61,"endTime":1524.12,"body":"things that you and your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1520.61,"endTime":1524.12,"body":"colleagues can do within that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.12,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"space. But what do you think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1524.12,"endTime":1527.6,"body":"that schools and universities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.63,"endTime":1532.49,"body":"you know, can be doing not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1527.63,"endTime":1532.49,"body":"to kind of get more diversity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.52,"endTime":1536.69,"body":"into areas like, like economics,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1532.52,"endTime":1536.69,"body":"but, but to kind of keep people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1536.69,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"there longer term, because you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1536.69,"endTime":1539.6,"body":"said about the four women that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1542.42,"body":"you started with now, I'm hoping"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1539.6,"endTime":1542.42,"body":"in my mind that they've all gone"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.42,"endTime":1546.05,"body":"off to do fun stuff and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1542.42,"endTime":1546.05,"body":"economics as an industry in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.05,"endTime":1548.84,"body":"other ways. And that's why they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1546.05,"endTime":1548.84,"body":"went their separate ways. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1548.87,"endTime":1551.84,"body":"and even if that's the case, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1548.87,"endTime":1551.84,"body":"think we all know, people who've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.84,"endTime":1554.48,"body":"gotten into different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1551.84,"endTime":1554.48,"body":"industries, brought some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.48,"endTime":1557.99,"body":"diversity with them, but they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1554.48,"endTime":1557.99,"body":"haven't been able to see because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.99,"endTime":1561.32,"body":"it's just too much. And those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.99,"endTime":1561.32,"body":"other things haven't been done"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.32,"endTime":1565.01,"body":"to help make it sustainable in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.32,"endTime":1565.01,"body":"the longer term. What are some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.01,"endTime":1568.16,"body":"of the things you think that we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1565.01,"endTime":1568.16,"body":"could be doing? So the I mean,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.16,"endTime":1571.55,"body":"the very first thing that I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1568.16,"endTime":1571.55,"body":"think we need to do in in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1571.55,"endTime":1577.04,"body":"schools, particularly and sort"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1571.55,"endTime":1577.04,"body":"of very early on, is just get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.04,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"over a much more realistic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1577.04,"endTime":1582.23,"body":"version of what economics is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1586.82,"body":"about. Yes. You mentioned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1582.23,"endTime":1586.82,"body":"earlier about people looking on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.06,"endTime":1591.26,"body":"on the television and seeing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1587.06,"endTime":1591.26,"body":"economists and the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.26,"endTime":1596.78,"body":"economists you tend to see tend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1591.26,"endTime":1596.78,"body":"to be people from the city, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1596.78,"endTime":1601.04,"body":"know, talking about why you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1596.78,"endTime":1601.04,"body":"know, what's going to happen to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.04,"endTime":1607.16,"body":"this stocks tomorrow. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.04,"endTime":1607.16,"body":"Which is really cool. Or what's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.16,"endTime":1610.19,"body":"happening to the exchange rate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.16,"endTime":1610.19,"body":"or something, which is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.19,"endTime":1613.73,"body":"quite bizarre, because the one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1610.19,"endTime":1613.73,"body":"thing that we know, in economics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.73,"endTime":1616.55,"body":"about stocks and exchange rates"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.73,"endTime":1616.55,"body":"is that we cannot predict."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.93,"endTime":1621.5,"body":"One thing that we know is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1617.93,"endTime":1621.5,"body":"we cannot answer that question."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.53,"endTime":1624.59,"body":"Yeah. Well, what's going to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1621.53,"endTime":1624.59,"body":"happen to that strength? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.59,"endTime":1627.29,"body":"our stock is going to go up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1624.59,"endTime":1627.29,"body":"tomorrow, and people will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1627.29,"endTime":1627.95,"body":"pretend."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.66,"endTime":1632.39,"body":"And then people say, well, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1629.66,"endTime":1632.39,"body":"one thing economists are meant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"to know is about what happens to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1632.39,"endTime":1635.33,"body":"the exchange rate tomorrow, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.33,"endTime":1638.81,"body":"happens to the stock market"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1635.33,"endTime":1638.81,"body":"tomorrow, and they get it wrong,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.81,"endTime":1641.78,"body":"and therefore, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1638.81,"endTime":1641.78,"body":"economics is terrible. A that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.78,"endTime":1646.49,"body":"like, not what most economists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1641.78,"endTime":1646.49,"body":"work on. B the one thing we know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.49,"endTime":1648.41,"body":"from economics is you can't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1646.49,"endTime":1648.41,"body":"predict it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1652.82,"endTime":1655.64,"body":"Attracting completely wrong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1652.82,"endTime":1655.64,"body":"people into economics. So we got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.64,"endTime":1660.77,"body":"a scope. So you know, economics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1655.64,"endTime":1660.77,"body":"about is about trade offs, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.77,"endTime":1665.0,"body":"about how do you make policy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1660.77,"endTime":1665.0,"body":"work better is about how do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.0,"endTime":1669.41,"body":"get a, you know, limited amount"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1665.0,"endTime":1669.41,"body":"of money to do the best it can?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.86,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"How do you get you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1669.86,"endTime":1673.52,"body":"limited, you know, get schools"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"working better get health care"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1673.52,"endTime":1677.33,"body":"working better? That's that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.33,"endTime":1681.26,"body":"what it's about. And I think if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.33,"endTime":1681.26,"body":"I think I can completely see why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.26,"endTime":1686.12,"body":"it's off putting to lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1681.26,"endTime":1686.12,"body":"people, you know, to think that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1688.64,"body":"you know, they don't want to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1686.3,"endTime":1688.64,"body":"work in the city. Well, you do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.64,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"have to work. Please don't work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.64,"endTime":1691.7,"body":"in the city."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.83,"endTime":1696.2,"body":"No, I, I support this 100%."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.22,"endTime":1700.52,"body":"That's not what it's not people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1697.22,"endTime":1700.52,"body":"like that, who we want any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.52,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"economics, not saying people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1700.52,"endTime":1703.85,"body":"from minorities should, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1707.36,"body":"know, don't have the right to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.85,"endTime":1707.36,"body":"make a lot of money in the city,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.36,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"obviously, they do. But there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.36,"endTime":1711.29,"body":"an awful lot of other great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.38,"endTime":1715.94,"body":"other people who would say, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1711.38,"endTime":1715.94,"body":"I really care about is improving"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.94,"endTime":1721.73,"body":"health education, and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1715.94,"endTime":1721.73,"body":"social assistance and the lives"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.73,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"of poor people in other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1721.73,"endTime":1724.7,"body":"countries, where if that's what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.49,"body":"you care about this is this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.7,"endTime":1727.49,"body":"the professional view. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.49,"endTime":1730.61,"body":"that's the message that's hard,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1727.49,"endTime":1730.61,"body":"isn't it? That's the main thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.61,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"And it's because of this bias"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1730.61,"endTime":1735.02,"body":"about what people see on TV. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.02,"endTime":1737.93,"body":"know, I spent a lot of the last"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1735.02,"endTime":1737.93,"body":"year trying to get COVID"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1737.93,"endTime":1743.27,"body":"vaccines, more COVID vaccines in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1737.93,"endTime":1743.27,"body":"the UK, get the production of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.27,"endTime":1747.29,"body":"them higher, try and make sure"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.27,"endTime":1747.29,"body":"that, you know, other countries"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1747.29,"endTime":1751.16,"body":"have access to them. And, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1747.29,"endTime":1751.16,"body":"know, that's the kind of really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.16,"endTime":1755.03,"body":"practical problem that we spend"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.16,"endTime":1755.03,"body":"our time working. So if you, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.03,"endTime":1758.42,"body":"know, you care about those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1755.03,"endTime":1758.42,"body":"things get into economics. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.45,"endTime":1761.39,"body":"you know, getting that message"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1758.45,"endTime":1761.39,"body":"across is right. I also think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.39,"endTime":1765.35,"body":"it's important that we when we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1761.39,"endTime":1765.35,"body":"teach economics at university,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.38,"endTime":1769.04,"body":"we tie it really closely to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1765.38,"endTime":1769.04,"body":"practical problems that people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.04,"endTime":1773.36,"body":"face and make it very accessible"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1769.04,"endTime":1773.36,"body":"in that way. not accessible and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.42,"endTime":1776.45,"body":"in you know, we don't teach it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1773.42,"endTime":1776.45,"body":"well, that's not what I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.45,"endTime":1779.33,"body":"talking about. I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1776.45,"endTime":1779.33,"body":"making it relevant to people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.54,"endTime":1783.77,"body":"And then in the end, then we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.54,"endTime":1783.77,"body":"need all sorts of mentoring"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.77,"endTime":1788.84,"body":"processes, you know, mentoring,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1783.77,"endTime":1788.84,"body":"and there's all sorts of biases"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1788.84,"endTime":1792.83,"body":"that we know about, including"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1788.84,"endTime":1792.83,"body":"from economic research about,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.13,"endTime":1796.13,"body":"you know, when you hire people,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.13,"endTime":1796.13,"body":"you kind of look for someone who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.13,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"looks like those people who've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1796.13,"endTime":1799.97,"body":"performed in the future. So we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1802.79,"body":"You need to keep testing and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1800.0,"endTime":1802.79,"body":"bringing this is a case where we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.79,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"get looked at the evidence"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1802.79,"endTime":1805.73,"body":"what's worked in bringing more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.73,"endTime":1809.51,"body":"diverse voices. And I mean, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1805.73,"endTime":1809.51,"body":"I was at university, I did a lot"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.51,"endTime":1812.9,"body":"of work to get I was from a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1809.51,"endTime":1812.9,"body":"comprehensive and I was lucky"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.9,"endTime":1817.73,"body":"enough to get into Oxford and,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1812.9,"endTime":1817.73,"body":"and I, I then did a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.73,"endTime":1821.15,"body":"to try and get other people from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.73,"endTime":1821.15,"body":"comprehensives into Oxford. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.15,"endTime":1823.46,"body":"I think it was some similar"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1821.15,"endTime":1823.46,"body":"issues. There was a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.46,"endTime":1826.55,"body":"prejudice people though, I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1823.46,"endTime":1826.55,"body":"want to go. It's not for people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1826.55,"endTime":1829.85,"body":"like me, and they met people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1826.55,"endTime":1829.85,"body":"who've gone and you know, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1829.85,"endTime":1830.18,"body":"was some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.31,"endTime":1836.51,"body":"you know, my school had never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1832.31,"endTime":1836.51,"body":"sent anyone to Oxford, no girl"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.63,"endTime":1841.22,"body":"had gone for my comprehensive to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1836.63,"endTime":1841.22,"body":"Oxford, or Cambridge, ever."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1841.31,"endTime":1845.87,"body":"That's amazing. I went back and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1841.31,"endTime":1845.87,"body":"talk to the next year, three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1845.87,"endTime":1850.07,"body":"people going amazing. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1845.87,"endTime":1850.07,"body":"was kind of the because nobody"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.07,"endTime":1853.19,"body":"wanted to go, they didn't think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1850.07,"endTime":1853.19,"body":"it was fair, then that's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1853.19,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"same kind of thing that we need"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1853.19,"endTime":1856.37,"body":"to do in economics. Don't pull"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.37,"endTime":1858.2,"body":"the ladder up. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.24,"body":"But but doing it by making it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.24,"body":"clear what it's about, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.27,"endTime":1868.58,"body":"demystifying it. So that's part"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1863.27,"endTime":1868.58,"body":"of it. 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Now, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.23,"endTime":1921.53,"body":"those sorts of things, I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1918.23,"endTime":1921.53,"body":"it's important to keep pushing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.53,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"on. Yeah, I think I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1921.53,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"true, it is about keeping on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.92,"endTime":1927.89,"body":"going, isn't it. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1924.92,"endTime":1927.89,"body":"there's always something else"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.89,"endTime":1931.7,"body":"that can be improved. 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Huge. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2086.62,"endTime":2089.68,"body":"that's what a lot of economists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.68,"endTime":2094.45,"body":"spend, and we're also providing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2089.68,"endTime":2094.45,"body":"some resources that people could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.51,"endTime":2098.29,"body":"link to to say, Okay, well what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.51,"endTime":2098.29,"body":"are the some of the economic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.29,"endTime":2099.97,"body":"principles because I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.24,"body":"You know, maybe you don't have,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2100.0,"endTime":2103.24,"body":"you're not being taught"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.27,"endTime":2106.24,"body":"economics and it's not offered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2103.27,"endTime":2106.24,"body":"in your school. It wasn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.24,"endTime":2111.07,"body":"offered in my school. No, no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.24,"endTime":2111.07,"body":"mine. Yeah. And I sort of fell"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.07,"endTime":2115.21,"body":"into it because it was part of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2111.07,"endTime":2115.21,"body":"my degree, I didn't know a range"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.21,"endTime":2118.96,"body":"of things. I thought I was going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2115.21,"endTime":2118.96,"body":"to do politics. 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Am I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2159.22,"endTime":2161.86,"body":"right in thinking that there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2159.22,"endTime":2161.86,"body":"not an age limit in terms of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.86,"endTime":2165.7,"body":"schools? Or if I just missed it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2161.86,"endTime":2165.7,"body":"on the landing page? It's for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2165.7,"endTime":2170.86,"body":"people during those years? Okay."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2165.7,"endTime":2170.86,"body":"It's so it's basically that a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2170.86,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"level years, okay. Might be GCSE"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2170.86,"endTime":2173.86,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.91,"endTime":2178.93,"body":"And we'll clarify, namely, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.91,"endTime":2178.93,"body":"it's pitch by the students in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.93,"endTime":2181.96,"body":"the last two years of school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2178.93,"endTime":2181.96,"body":"perfect, who might you know, who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.96,"endTime":2186.07,"body":"are kind of thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2181.96,"endTime":2186.07,"body":"they might do? university? Who"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2186.07,"endTime":2189.46,"body":"might be doing a level"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2186.07,"endTime":2189.46,"body":"economics? But no, no, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.49,"endTime":2194.56,"body":"not necessarily to. And my team"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.49,"endTime":2194.56,"body":"will read all of the entries,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.74,"endTime":2199.36,"body":"and you will get to come present"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2194.74,"endTime":2199.36,"body":"to me, if that's exciting. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.42,"endTime":2203.95,"body":"And I will read the shortlisted"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2199.42,"endTime":2203.95,"body":"ones. 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I mean, we'll just add that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.6,"endTime":2217.36,"body":"in as a little aside, but you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.6,"endTime":2217.36,"body":"know, that's an important one,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2217.36,"endTime":2217.57,"body":"too."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.25,"endTime":2221.65,"body":"That's another element actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.25,"endTime":2221.65,"body":"that we come across a lot. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.65,"endTime":2224.11,"body":"we're talking about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2221.65,"endTime":2224.11,"body":"challenges. And you've touched"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.11,"endTime":2228.76,"body":"upon it so much with the skills"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.11,"endTime":2228.76,"body":"that you have in communicating"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.76,"endTime":2233.68,"body":"the message. And that's a really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2228.76,"endTime":2233.68,"body":"huge part of the success of any"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.68,"endTime":2237.61,"body":"research. And any policy is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2233.68,"endTime":2237.61,"body":"communicating that research, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.61,"endTime":2240.52,"body":"policy. 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So this is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.83,"endTime":2269.95,"body":"brilliant opportunity, not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2266.83,"endTime":2269.95,"body":"to kind of quietly sit in your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.95,"endTime":2273.97,"body":"room and maybe come up with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2269.95,"endTime":2273.97,"body":"idea, but then do the next part,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2273.97,"endTime":2278.02,"body":"which is a huge, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2273.97,"endTime":2278.02,"body":"it's, you know, almost as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.02,"endTime":2281.41,"body":"important as the idea itself has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2278.02,"endTime":2281.41,"body":"been able to communicate it do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.8,"endTime":2285.28,"body":"You said that sometimes people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2281.8,"endTime":2285.28,"body":"think of economics as just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.28,"endTime":2289.0,"body":"mastering statistics. But that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2285.28,"endTime":2289.0,"body":"not going to get you anywhere."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2293.11,"body":"It's it's, it's part of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2289.03,"endTime":2293.11,"body":"equation, as I'm saying, like,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2296.59,"body":"social science is somewhere"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2293.14,"endTime":2296.59,"body":"between humanities and science."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.92,"endTime":2300.01,"body":"I mean, scientists have to be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2296.92,"endTime":2300.01,"body":"good at communicating to, but is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.01,"endTime":2304.36,"body":"particularly, it's about putting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2300.01,"endTime":2304.36,"body":"together a logical argument,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2310.03,"body":"based on what evidence we have."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2305.2,"endTime":2310.03,"body":"So drawing in data to support"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.03,"endTime":2313.66,"body":"your argument drawing on, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2310.03,"endTime":2313.66,"body":"know, rigorous evidence to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.66,"endTime":2317.47,"body":"support your argument, but it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2313.66,"endTime":2317.47,"body":"about that logical, coherent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.5,"endTime":2319.96,"body":"argument that you can then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2317.5,"endTime":2319.96,"body":"present, that's what makes a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.96,"endTime":2322.54,"body":"good economist is sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2319.96,"endTime":2322.54,"body":"drawing on all these different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.54,"endTime":2326.68,"body":"strands and say, okay, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2322.54,"endTime":2326.68,"body":"so what do we know? What do we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.68,"endTime":2329.38,"body":"know about costs? But also, what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2326.68,"endTime":2329.38,"body":"do we know about human"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.38,"endTime":2333.94,"body":"behaviour? How do humans behave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2329.38,"endTime":2333.94,"body":"in this sort of situation? So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.94,"endTime":2337.9,"body":"it's got a lot of kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.94,"endTime":2337.9,"body":"psychology, and it's not just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2341.17,"body":"really abstract. It's also, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2337.93,"endTime":2341.17,"body":"know, thinking about how do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.17,"endTime":2346.09,"body":"humans respond to incentives?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2341.17,"endTime":2346.09,"body":"And then, you know, putting it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.09,"endTime":2348.73,"body":"into a logical framework and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2346.09,"endTime":2348.73,"body":"saying, well, what's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.73,"endTime":2352.69,"body":"implications of that for policy?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.73,"endTime":2352.69,"body":"So it's really about combining a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.69,"endTime":2356.11,"body":"lot of different aspects. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2352.69,"endTime":2356.11,"body":"that's what I love about it, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2356.11,"endTime":2361.36,"body":"can see why people communication"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2356.11,"endTime":2361.36,"body":"logic, you know, that that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2361.36,"endTime":2364.06,"body":"what it's about. I love it. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2361.36,"endTime":2364.06,"body":"I have to say that I'm kind of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.06,"endTime":2366.52,"body":"little bit jealous that I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2364.06,"endTime":2366.52,"body":"an economist, because those are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.52,"endTime":2370.39,"body":"all the things I like, as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2366.52,"endTime":2370.39,"body":"Because, to me, I talk to people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.39,"endTime":2373.6,"body":"all the time when when I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2370.39,"endTime":2373.6,"body":"on the digital side, very small"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.6,"endTime":2375.73,"body":"example. Like if we're looking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2373.6,"endTime":2375.73,"body":"at something like Google"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.73,"endTime":2379.18,"body":"Analytics of how people behave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2375.73,"endTime":2379.18,"body":"when they're on your website,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.21,"endTime":2381.94,"body":"and so many people get caught up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2379.21,"endTime":2381.94,"body":"on the numbers. Now, like, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.94,"endTime":2384.19,"body":"if you don't understand how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2381.94,"endTime":2384.19,"body":"people travel around your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.19,"endTime":2386.86,"body":"website, then those numbers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2384.19,"endTime":2386.86,"body":"don't mean anything. You know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.92,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"lots of people visiting lots of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2386.92,"endTime":2389.71,"body":"pages could mean that they love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.71,"endTime":2392.41,"body":"all of your content. Or it could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2389.71,"endTime":2392.41,"body":"mean that they just can't find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.41,"endTime":2395.71,"body":"what they're looking for. And if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2392.41,"endTime":2395.71,"body":"you don't understand what your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.71,"endTime":2399.34,"body":"website is doing, you can't make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2395.71,"endTime":2399.34,"body":"that connection. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2399.34,"endTime":2399.97,"body":"that's a mistake."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2403.63,"body":"A lot of people make when they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2400.0,"endTime":2403.63,"body":"look at datasets of any kind,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.63,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"whether it's for, you know, just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2403.63,"endTime":2407.32,"body":"for pure science or economics or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.32,"endTime":2411.61,"body":"for anything. So just to finish"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2407.32,"endTime":2411.61,"body":"off again, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.61,"endTime":2416.35,"body":"your time, this has been so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2411.61,"endTime":2416.35,"body":"fascinating. And I'm hoping that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.35,"endTime":2419.17,"body":"people listening to this can get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2416.35,"endTime":2419.17,"body":"an idea of what it's really like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.2,"endTime":2423.7,"body":"to be an economist and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2419.2,"endTime":2423.7,"body":"varied that can be. But just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.7,"endTime":2426.31,"body":"finally, and you've given so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2423.7,"endTime":2426.31,"body":"much advice already, actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.31,"endTime":2429.13,"body":"so we may have already answered"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2426.31,"endTime":2429.13,"body":"it, but let's maybe pull"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.13,"endTime":2432.61,"body":"together with summary if we can,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2429.13,"endTime":2432.61,"body":"but what advice would you give"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.61,"endTime":2435.43,"body":"to teachers and parents who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.61,"endTime":2435.43,"body":"talking to young people, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.43,"endTime":2439.18,"body":"economics just as an interest or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2435.43,"endTime":2439.18,"body":"but more importantly, as a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.18,"endTime":2446.17,"body":"career going forward? Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2439.18,"endTime":2446.17,"body":"my advice would be to look into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.2,"endTime":2450.79,"body":"thinking about some of the kinds"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2446.2,"endTime":2450.79,"body":"of economics that is maybe not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.79,"endTime":2456.4,"body":"front page, not on your on your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2450.79,"endTime":2456.4,"body":"television screen. I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.4,"endTime":2459.52,"body":"kinds of things that economists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2456.4,"endTime":2459.52,"body":"do in government, I think, is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2459.52,"endTime":2464.53,"body":"quite a good example of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2459.52,"endTime":2464.53,"body":"kinds of things that help from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.68,"endTime":2470.89,"body":"an environmental side, transport"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2464.68,"endTime":2470.89,"body":"to education. Looking into that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.92,"endTime":2475.48,"body":"so finding podcasts or finding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2470.92,"endTime":2475.48,"body":"other sources of information"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.48,"endTime":2480.07,"body":"about there's a nice hashtag, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2475.48,"endTime":2480.07,"body":"gets what economists really do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.17,"endTime":2483.04,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.35,"endTime":2490.75,"body":"oriana bandiera, did a great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2485.35,"endTime":2490.75,"body":"presentation to the econometrics"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.75,"endTime":2495.22,"body":"society, well, to students to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2490.75,"endTime":2495.22,"body":"school children about, about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2495.22,"endTime":2496.54,"body":"what economists really do."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.71,"endTime":2503.65,"body":"So looking do that, then do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2497.71,"endTime":2503.65,"body":"think about? So we said, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2503.65,"endTime":2507.34,"body":"not all about mass, but it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2503.65,"endTime":2507.34,"body":"important. You know, if you are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2510.28,"body":"if you're, if you're talking to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2510.28,"body":"a kid who's younger, and they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.28,"endTime":2513.46,"body":"thinking about what a levels to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2510.28,"endTime":2513.46,"body":"do, you probably do need a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.46,"endTime":2516.49,"body":"master level. I mean, as I say,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2513.46,"endTime":2516.49,"body":"I didn't do further math, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.52,"endTime":2521.47,"body":"many people do. But you should"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2516.52,"endTime":2521.47,"body":"at least do maths. And see if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.47,"endTime":2526.45,"body":"there are ways to get someone to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2521.47,"endTime":2526.45,"body":"come and talk to the school or,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.84,"endTime":2531.79,"body":"you know, or ask around to see"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2526.84,"endTime":2531.79,"body":"if anybody knows anyone who's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.79,"endTime":2534.97,"body":"got a you know, it's got a job"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.79,"endTime":2534.97,"body":"in economics, does it say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.97,"endTime":2538.42,"body":"difficult? Because then, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2534.97,"endTime":2538.42,"body":"know, it's not something that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2538.42,"endTime":2540.13,"body":"you see around a lot."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.33,"endTime":2545.56,"body":"But a lot more people would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2541.33,"endTime":2545.56,"body":"interested in if they if they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2550.24,"body":"got exposure, so thinking both"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2545.56,"endTime":2550.24,"body":"about what they'd be interested,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.24,"endTime":2553.36,"body":"but also what would they What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2550.24,"endTime":2553.36,"body":"skills do they need to acquire?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.72,"endTime":2556.81,"body":"And are they taking the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2553.72,"endTime":2556.81,"body":"courses? If they're potentially"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.81,"endTime":2559.69,"body":"interested in doing brilliant,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2556.81,"endTime":2559.69,"body":"what we really need is just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.69,"endTime":2564.19,"body":"get you on the news more. First"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2559.69,"endTime":2564.19,"body":"thing, let's get your if we get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2564.22,"endTime":2567.01,"body":"yourself and your colleagues,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2564.22,"endTime":2567.01,"body":"you know, on there No, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2567.01,"endTime":2568.33,"body":"what economists look like."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.36,"endTime":2576.61,"body":"There's also a there's also a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2571.36,"endTime":2576.61,"body":"hashtag about why economists, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2576.61,"endTime":2582.01,"body":"look like an economist, but that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2576.61,"endTime":2582.01,"body":"was in response to Google. Bing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.01,"endTime":2586.12,"body":"only, you know, if you've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2582.01,"endTime":2586.12,"body":"searched economists, not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2591.4,"body":"only white men, I think they've"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2587.74,"endTime":2591.4,"body":"grey hair now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2592.72,"endTime":2593.2,"body":"But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.49,"endTime":2597.16,"body":"there's really good economists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2594.49,"endTime":2597.16,"body":"on Twitter, if you're on if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.16,"endTime":2599.98,"body":"you're on Twitter, I have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2597.16,"endTime":2599.98,"body":"reasonable following on Twitter."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.46,"endTime":2604.33,"body":"And you'll see the kinds of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.46,"endTime":2604.33,"body":"things that we get or get into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.33,"endTime":2608.83,"body":"arguments about or, or talk"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2604.33,"endTime":2608.83,"body":"about or work work on. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.04,"body":"that's another way. Another way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.04,"body":"to. That's the joy of Twitter, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.04,"endTime":2615.22,"body":"often say that to people, if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2612.04,"endTime":2615.22,"body":"you're interested in like you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.22,"endTime":2618.55,"body":"don't you can be a lurker. So I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2615.22,"endTime":2618.55,"body":"usually go because there's so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.55,"endTime":2621.16,"body":"many fascinating people on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2618.55,"endTime":2621.16,"body":"there, like if you're interested"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2621.16,"endTime":2624.67,"body":"in space, you can follow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2621.16,"endTime":2624.67,"body":"astronauts, and they will tweet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2624.67,"endTime":2627.52,"body":"from space. And you can learn"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2624.67,"endTime":2627.52,"body":"things that way. And, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2627.52,"endTime":2630.13,"body":"really get, like you said, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2627.52,"endTime":2630.13,"body":"reality of what a lot of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2630.13,"endTime":2634.27,"body":"people's jobs are, because we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2630.13,"endTime":2634.27,"body":"lucky enough to have a nice"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.27,"endTime":2637.0,"body":"crowd have different, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.27,"endTime":2637.0,"body":"different groups people on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2637.0,"endTime":2640.42,"body":"there. So we can also have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2637.0,"endTime":2640.42,"body":"will recommend your have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.42,"endTime":2643.42,"body":"little nausea, who you're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2640.42,"endTime":2643.42,"body":"following on Twitter as well in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.42,"endTime":2645.49,"body":"the notes so that people can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2643.42,"endTime":2645.49,"body":"have a look. But I think that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2645.49,"endTime":2648.34,"body":"also a great resource for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2645.49,"endTime":2648.34,"body":"teachers, like if they they can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2648.34,"endTime":2650.71,"body":"follow and have a look at what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2648.34,"endTime":2650.71,"body":"people are saying on Twitter."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2650.71,"endTime":2654.85,"body":"And it does give you a much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2650.71,"endTime":2654.85,"body":"clearer perspective. That's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.85,"endTime":2657.73,"body":"different from when I grew up."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2654.85,"endTime":2657.73,"body":"And my parents were telling me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2657.73,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"not to go on the internet and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2657.73,"endTime":2659.89,"body":"not to believe anything you read"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2662.53,"body":"on the internet. It's all quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2659.89,"endTime":2662.53,"body":"different. Thankfully, there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.53,"endTime":2665.26,"body":"still a little bit of that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2662.53,"endTime":2665.26,"body":"though, kids, please also still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2665.26,"endTime":2665.59,"body":"check"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.88,"endTime":2672.7,"body":"other resources, which I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2666.88,"endTime":2672.7,"body":"are really good. So Vox has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.14,"endTime":2679.18,"body":"development. Vox stands for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2674.14,"endTime":2679.18,"body":"those interested in development"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.18,"endTime":2682.57,"body":"economics. And I think they have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2679.18,"endTime":2682.57,"body":"an equivalent for non"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.57,"endTime":2686.53,"body":"development. They cover some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2682.57,"endTime":2686.53,"body":"pretty serious research,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2686.62,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"economics research on there, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2686.62,"endTime":2690.67,"body":"presented in a very sort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.67,"endTime":2694.87,"body":"straightforward way. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2690.67,"endTime":2694.87,"body":"might be you know, an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.87,"endTime":2698.56,"body":"interesting thing to read and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2694.87,"endTime":2698.56,"body":"there are some you know, videos"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.56,"endTime":2699.82,"body":"of people talking about that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2704.77,"body":"Sima Zhi Chandran is always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2700.84,"endTime":2704.77,"body":"brilliant. If you ever get to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.86,"endTime":2708.73,"body":"see videos from her, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2704.86,"endTime":2708.73,"body":"adding to my guest list here"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.73,"endTime":2710.14,"body":"like Who else do we need to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2708.73,"endTime":2710.14,"body":"invite?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2711.49,"endTime":2715.06,"body":"definitely talk to you. I love"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2711.49,"endTime":2715.06,"body":"that because it just shows you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.06,"endTime":2717.37,"body":"like just at the end of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2715.06,"endTime":2717.37,"body":"conversation, like you start to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.37,"endTime":2720.82,"body":"think about what the resources"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2717.37,"endTime":2720.82,"body":"are. And there are just there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.82,"endTime":2724.75,"body":"are so many ways that we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2720.82,"endTime":2724.75,"body":"find out more. But I think what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.75,"endTime":2728.02,"body":"we're the connection we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2724.75,"endTime":2728.02,"body":"hoping to make is that people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.02,"endTime":2730.96,"body":"might not know what they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2728.02,"endTime":2730.96,"body":"know, like they might they don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.96,"endTime":2734.44,"body":"realise that there is a gap"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.96,"endTime":2734.44,"body":"between what we think economists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.44,"endTime":2737.23,"body":"look like and what they actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2734.44,"endTime":2737.23,"body":"look like. We're doing our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.23,"endTime":2740.92,"body":"little part. And thank you so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2737.23,"endTime":2740.92,"body":"much for your time. I really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.92,"endTime":2744.49,"body":"appreciate it. And it's been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2740.92,"endTime":2744.49,"body":"really interesting. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.49,"endTime":2746.89,"body":"hoping that at some point, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.49,"endTime":2746.89,"body":"going to come back and revisit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.89,"endTime":2749.95,"body":"everyone and and we'll get more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2746.89,"endTime":2749.95,"body":"questions in from other people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.95,"endTime":2752.71,"body":"to ask you. So I'm hoping that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.95,"endTime":2752.71,"body":"you'll be willing to come back"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.71,"endTime":2756.55,"body":"and maybe do that later on in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2752.71,"endTime":2756.55,"body":"the year. I'll pin you down. No."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.9,"endTime":2761.89,"body":"And I promise that there'll be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2757.9,"endTime":2761.89,"body":"nice questions. Great to chat to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.89,"endTime":2766.6,"body":"you, Jennifer. Yeah, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2761.89,"endTime":2766.6,"body":"brilliant. Thank you. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.6,"endTime":2769.63,"body":"so much for listening to our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2766.6,"endTime":2769.63,"body":"episode. We hope you enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.93,"endTime":2772.51,"body":"Please get in touch. If you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.93,"endTime":2772.51,"body":"visit our website, discover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.51,"endTime":2776.74,"body":"economics.co.uk you can email us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2772.51,"endTime":2776.74,"body":"through the site, get in touch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.74,"endTime":2780.19,"body":"see all of our resources. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2776.74,"endTime":2780.19,"body":"we'd love to hear from you. If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.19,"endTime":2783.07,"body":"you've got any questions for our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.19,"endTime":2783.07,"body":"guests that we can pass on to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.07,"endTime":2786.58,"body":"them. And I keep nudging our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.07,"endTime":2786.58,"body":"guests. We're hoping to get them"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.58,"endTime":2790.06,"body":"back in the hot seat again with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2786.58,"endTime":2790.06,"body":"your questions. So please do get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2793.0,"body":"in touch and let us know what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.06,"endTime":2793.0,"body":"you think. If you've enjoyed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2793.0,"endTime":2797.62,"body":"podcast, remember to go to Apple"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2793.0,"endTime":2797.62,"body":"podcasts and rate and review."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2797.98,"endTime":2800.62,"body":"Remember to subscribe so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2797.98,"endTime":2800.62,"body":"you get all the new episodes as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2800.62,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"they come in. And we look"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2800.62,"endTime":2803.53,"body":"forward to hearing from you and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2806.02,"body":"let us know what you think. See"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2803.53,"endTime":2806.02,"body":"you on the next episode."}]}