Practicing medicine in 2021 has caused physicians to face many challenges. Physicians are being confronted with increasing practice demands, billing stress, and increased patient loads. In this week’s episode Coach JPMD has a conversation with Pariksith Singh, MD about purchasing and owning commercial real estate and how this could be another tool that can help you to Practice Impossible. Dr. Singh is a practicing internist in Spring Hill, Florida, and is the founder and owner of Access Healthcare Physicians, LLC as well as many other successful real estate companies. They discuss certain things that he did to amass the multi-million dollar real estate portfolio. This portfolio includes medical practices that Coach JPMD once leased from him. As Coach JPMD grew his practice, he too understood the importance of owning the real estate that he practices in and this has helped secure a terrific passive income. We hope that this episode inspires you to consider purchasing real estate at the right time for you and your practice. We recommend getting the right realtor, financial advisor, and/or consultant so that you can be confident in making the best decision as you Practice Impossible. For a complete bio on Dr. Singh click on the show notes here.
Coach JPMD 0:00
Hello out there. So before we go into the intro to our next guest, I wanted to first and foremost, thank you, thank you, thank you for listening to my podcast. And if you haven't done so please hit subscribe, follow it, share it with your friends, because that's really the only way to really truly get the word out that this exists. It also helps increase the awareness of things that physicians can do to help themselves spiritually, mentally, physically and, and that is my mission. My mission is to increase that awareness. And with your help, we can do that. So please subscribe, follow us, share with your friends, and enjoy the podcast.
Welcome to the practice impossible podcast where your host Jude A., Pierre MD, also known as Coach JPMD discusses medical practice topics that will guide you through the maze that is the business of medicine, and teach you how to increase profits and help populations live long. Your mission, should you choose to accept, is to listen and be transformed. Now here's your host, Coach JPMD.
Coach JPMD 1:02
Today, we're going to have a conversation with Dr. Pariksith Singh, who is a board certified internal medicine physician who actually recruited me to the Springhill area in 2002. You know, I can go through this long bio that Dr. Singh sent me and I'll put that in the show notes. But really the conversation today is is not really about medicine. It's about real estate, and real estate and medicine. And I, you know, over the past couple of years, I had not realized how important real estate is in really accumulating wealth and, and creating a sustainable income that is independent of you working, seeing patients and doing a lot of the hard work that many of us do in this in our profession. So it wasn't until I had my one good real estate deal. And that was purchasing my own practice. My own my own office where my practice is now. Prior to that I had been renting from Dr. Singh and his organization and he owned property throughout Spring Hill. And it was so interesting how, if you look at his footprint, everywhere, he had an office, there was also everywhere he had a physician, it was an office that he actually owned and rented to that physician. So you can imagine the amount of income that he generated doing this. And so in this, in today's podcast, I want to really describe or have Dr. Singh describe how he accumulated real estate, what his pearls of wisdom are, in that. In that journey for him being a successful physician as well as an entrepreneur, starting an HMO, starting an IPA, starting many other businesses as well. But I think a lot of that was helped by his love of real estate. And so I'm going to enjoy this conversation with Dr. Singh and hear what he has to say. So here we go. We are live. And we're here with Dr. Pariksith Singh from Spring Hill, Florida. And we're here to talk about real estate, particularly commercial real estate. And I feel Dr. Singh is the guru in commercial real estate when it comes to managed care and managed care practices, so I'll let Dr. Singh introduce himself. Tell us who you are and some history on access health care.
Pariksith Singh, MD 3:30
Hi, Jude, thank you for having me here. I'm Pariksith Singh. I'm a physician. I've been in Spring Hill, Florida for almost 25 years now. Initially, I started as an employed physician for five years. And then when our employer kind of retired, then we bought his practice. At that time, essentially, we were two physicians, one office, Dr. Maria Scunziano and I. And over the last 20 years it has grown. It is actually exactly 20 years, because in June, we started in June of 2001. And we have thank God done well, and things have grown in our medical practice and our real estate portfolio.
Coach JPMD 4:23
It's interesting. I'm thinking about the timing, because I've been here since 2002. So really, it was a year after you started Access.
Pariksith Singh, MD 4:34
That's right, Jude, you were the first one.
Coach JPMD 4:35
Pariksith Singh, MD 4:36
Yeah, you were the first one. And you were very good with Excel sheets. So I still remember those. And those are very helpful, by the way.
Coach JPMD 4:45
Yeah, you didn't say that 20 years. When you, when you tortured me in that conference.
Pariksith Singh, MD 4:51
Right. That's right. So a lot of things we have learned over the years, you know, practical things. And I think there is something to be said, by the way, you approached it in a very methodical systematic way, breaking down the numbers. And how I used to approach it were more more gut feeling instincts, getting a kind of horse sense, on my use the word, and that's a personality trait. And then you need both, you know, the, you need the yin and the yang, to balance out the creativity with crunching the numbers, and that, that is critical. Because otherwise, that's when you make mistakes. A lot of people are overly critical than they get paralyzed. A lot of people are overly emotional and instinctive, but then they don't do the homework and due diligence. And so both have to be focused on both have to be prized. And if you read that book from Malcolm Gladwell blink, you know, instinctively, you know, few things as you do more, you know, instinctively, but then you have to break it down. Because you have to make sure you authenticate that you validate your instinct, and then you know, the more you break it down, the more you know, of the of the whole, you know, any practice and the real estate that you're looking at.
Coach JPMD 6:09
So you're talking about things that maybe you didn't know, when you first started Access, because Access was a smaller organization. Now, we're, I don't know how many physicians we are now.
Pariksith Singh, MD 6:21
We're about 500, you know, owned and an affiliate. So we've grown a lot.
Coach JPMD 6:28
And when in terms of real estate, do you own every single practice, or every single building where those 500 physicians are? Or how do you manage that? Because that's something that, you know, when I first started, I was renting the office space, you know, through my income, guaranteed through one of the local hospitals, and I realized, Oh, my gosh, there's a lot of money going out and just rent payments.
Pariksith Singh, MD 6:51
No, it's absolutely, so we don't own every property where we have offices for various reasons. One is the owner doesn't want to sell it. And we like that location. And that's okay, you can try to have a great tenancy model where you are a tenant, and it's okay. Or places where you have a good property with good numbers. And that's where you put your office and then they kind of augment each other. And then there are we have buildings where we have no offices. And those do well too. So you got to balance it, you have to look at it as a separate business in itself at some point. See, make sure it makes numbers, although at times, you have to change that too, and say, Okay, this location is too important for medical practice. So I'll make a little, you know, step outside the box and get it in just because I want the location. But ideally, you should look at it as a separate business in itself.
Coach JPMD 7:53
So So obviously, the healthcare business didn't start off as, as a real estate business. So you had Access Healthcare, you grew that to 500 plus physicians and affiliates. Generating a significant amount of revenue I'm sure of that but then there's the the HMO and the IPA and other organizations. So how or when did you kind of separate out real estate business from the medical practice?
Pariksith Singh, MD 8:19
It happened very early Jude in 2001, when we we bought the practice from our the employer, who wanted to kind of phase out, and so we bought it and then a friend of ours, offered to sell us land on 19, which is the road that connects Pasco and Hernando County, and I was very naive. So you know, I have two acres $235,000. He said, we are you can have it you can have a location, you can have an office and knowing nothing, and that's the problem with us physicians. Since we are good at one thing, we think we're good at everything. So I asked our attorney attorney said no, that's not a good deal. I still went ahead and bought the property. And I can tell you that area has not grown in the last 20 years. Nothing that area is still as dead and dry as it was 20 years ago. Don't ask me why. If you go down south on from your office on 19, you will find this patch from Hernando to Pasco there's almost a patch of four or five miles, nothing. It's like a desert in terms of commercial activity. And so that was a mistake, although we eventually took advantage of it and made money out of it. But really, there was a poorly executed real estate deal. And I'll tell you why. Also, no no diligence. So there were wetlands. 1/3 of it is wetlands. Just to put up an office is a disaster, because you have to do a lot of mitigation. And since there is no real population around. There's no point even putting up an office there. Because if you put an office, nobody will come there. And so why buy this land? It was land bought for the things, everything that you should not do. Or maybe I should write that book, what you should not do in real estate. Because when you learn not what not to do you, I think you'll do everything else the right way. So that was everything a classic textbook case of how not to buy a property.
Coach JPMD 10:27
So it boils down to location, right? Location, location, location. Thats a thing in real estate. And so if you, I mean, there's not much you can do with that location, unless things change drastically in the community. So how do you find property? What are your what are some of the criteria that you use? Distressed properties? Income properties? How do you find properties?
Pariksith Singh, MD 10:49
So over the years, I've worked with different brokers who kind of have access, they have all these, you know, systems, on which all the new properties that come on the market you have access to, so they will bring them to you. But then you have to have certain exclusivity. I know certain brokers who don't what is called MTS systems, or MLS system.
Coach JPMD 11:11
Pariksith Singh, MD 11:12
MLS. So everybody, whenever a property comes to market, all the brokers put it on there. I also like to deal with brokers who are outside the system, who work kind of subliminally. And so then you get access to properties early on, where once it goes in the market, it goes crazy, right? Everybody's going crazy with it, what you want to do is early on, you want to know you have to have an idea of what is coming on the market. And if it's the prices, right, and you want to just take it right there at that time. So you don't want it to come on the system. But for that you have to have deep roots in the real estate community. And I will tell you, I mean, there are very few brokers that I have found who are an I probably, it's just me, but very few brokers who will work with you in a very conscientious manner. The challenge here is the goal of the broker is not to get you the best deal. The goal of the broker is to get a deal. So another great example is about this $100 and the broker is 5%, they get $5, right? But if they don't work hard, and you have to pay 102, they're only going to get a little bit increased, so they have no incentive. Or if you get it for 95, they're still going to get 4.7 4.8. So to them, it's not that margin is very little, but to get that big chunk, they want to get the deal done. And so I'm not saying everyone is like that there are many brokers who are not like that. They're very conscientious good brokers. And then there are some brokers who are poor in due diligence. They don't care if the due diligence has been done correctly or not. And that's where you get in trouble these wetlands. Research with the county making sure you can get a permit all this has a methodical approach. There's like the checklist. Manifesto. You have to have a checklist, you go one by one by one, that you make sure the property is clean because once you buy it, you cannot sell it so easily. That's a challenge with the property is unlike cash. It is not as easily tradable. You can't even do it on your stock market. Okay, you bought made the wrong deal. Okay, get it out, take your losses. Here you can't. It is once you're stuck in it, it will take a long time to sell. And if there is a defect in it major problem, then you have to disclose it and then it becomes a massive asbestos. What is that Iridium, radium and radon, water, radon gas, all those issues, you have to do proper diligence of wetland, sinkholes, because if you got it, if you have it and you don't disclose it, then you're liable for it.
Coach JPMD 11:13
Yeah, and I had some experience with some wetlands where we have to actually talk to the Environmental Protection commission in order to get approval to be able to build structures on a piece of property. And that can be very costly. And it can also be time consuming. So if you think you can, you know, build an office building within six months, you know, with EPC, it may take a year, two years.
Pariksith Singh, MD 14:28
Yeah. Yes. And to add on to your question. Also, some connections with the banks bankers would be with foreclosures, sometimes helps physicians have good relationships with banks, then there are records you can get from the court where there are distressed properties, but that's a lot of work. So I couldn't do it. There are some people who look at those distressed properties and they go through all those records, and then they find properties that are in auction. That's another way of getting properties. But you know, these are different different options that you might consider.
Coach JPMD 15:06
So it sounds like you have to have a good broker relationship or someone that you can trust that can do that due diligence. But you know, I know you and there's there's a little bit more to that, because I know that there are certain properties that you buy, that seems like you always make money off of them. So is there a overwhelming theme in properties that you're buying for practices? That you could say, yes, that's what I would do.
Pariksith Singh, MD 15:33
So now see, I'm going to break my own rule, we said, it has to be a separate business separate in itself, right? But when I look, when I look for a location, I don't look for land or property per se. My first goal is, where would a practice make sense? Because we are still the practice is what will if the practice is strong, it will feed the property. So you have you see the map behind me? Every zip code, and I'm probably a little more compulsive than you would like someone to be. But every zip code, how many members, the streets, everything is mapped out you can look at. So a mastery of your geographic area. I'm not saying master all Florida, that's excessive. But Hernando County, you master the location, you have to be like a Napoleon. Right? Now. Why did Napoleon win the wars? Napoleon knew Matt was a master of geography. He knew every nuance of the terrain. And then he knew how the weather was. In fact, we can some day talk about his war. Several wars, he worked one because he knew the terrain better than the enemy. And he even knew what time the sun comes out, and what time the fog dissipates. And so, again, we'll talk about it someday, but learning from him, you have to know how many cars are passing by on the street. How many footfalls if you are in a big plaza, where there's Publix, how many footfalls are there? How many people live around you? How many Medicare eligibles, if you're into Medicare business, if we're Medicaid, then how many Medicaid patients, and then how many other physicians are around and how you can leverage that. So that thought process now if the thought process comes out, say okay, I want to practice here. Now you start looking at the real estate, then you will find subliminal. Or as George W. Bush used to say subliminal properties that you can start, then you start looking around, see, the real good properties don't come in the market and you buy them. My experience. Of course, that's not, don't take that as a blanket statement. There are some great properties we got that are on the market that came on the on MLS system. But a lot of times you start prodding, poking around, someone is here, an elderly gentleman who has a house there and an elderly lady who wants to sell her home and has been has a dream that her home will become something new, because her mom lived there. And suddenly you say I want to put an office there, boom, you got the deal. And so things happen. You just have to figure out meet people, creative real estate, how can you be creative with real estate and that's something I learned from my employer. He bought a piece of property, I think 10 acres. Within one month, he had sold a carved out area of one acre for 1 million. So whatever he had taken 1 million to buy those 10 acres, he sold that one acre, and he paid off and nine acres of free, right. A lot of creativity. We picked up a big chunk, because that big chunk, what am I gonna do with the big chunk, but he knew that it was an improper that corner was important. So he sold the corner. Now he has nine acres sitting free, right? The same thing we did in Citrus around the hospital. What was that Seven Rivers or Crystal River? There was I think one acre or two acres, but then there was a whole block of 10 acres around it. And they're homes, all homes. Old homes. They've for 30-40 years. We just bought one by one by one we bought all homes we we package them in with that one acre property. So we got 10 acres. Now think about it. 10 acres complete block next to the hospital. Right? So you have to think like that. And how can I, how can I creatively pull this property or our own plaza? You worked here in our plaza. It was a condo and we bought the hardware store which was in the middle 8000 square feet. We got it when nobody would support us. Nobody would believe in us. We got we were lucky to get those eight first step is very difficult. And we were lucky to get that then we bought the rest of the plaza, and we bought the 1/3 acre in the front, and we bought the 1/3 acre in the back. And now you have enough parking, you have enough shops, you have enough area that you can provide care for patients in. So creative real estate, you got to think outside the box. Yes, you can do cut deals fast. But here if you if you approach it in a methodical way you can we can do a lot of good things.
Coach JPMD 20:28
So so you're you're you're talking about commercial properties, you're talking about putting practices and buying land and developing land. But how are you mortgaging these? How are you paying for this? Is it the practice paying for it? Are you getting private loans? Or how do you go to a bank and say I want to buy 10 acres?
Pariksith Singh, MD 20:47
Yeah, so I don't do a lot of speculation. I've been very careful with that. When you have seen the last 20 years, you know, the market has gone like this 2007 almost like the bottom fell out of the whole real estate market and everybody got in trouble. And you know, everybody thought I was a genius because I sold all our properties right before it crashed. All our real estate.
Coach JPMD 21:09
Did you really do that?
Pariksith Singh, MD 21:10
That 10 acres I talked about the hospital right next to the hospital. I sold it. Brooksville we had a bank building, oh, these are beautiful properties. I absolutely cried when I sold them. But I sold them. County line, we had nine acres. Again, I cried, we had four acres right at 50 and 19. Beautiful pieces, but say Warren Buffett has a very beautiful saying, when everyone is greedy, then be very afraid. And when everyone is afraid, then be very greedy. So every the market was exploding every body was had become a real estate Maven. And they were buying things and we knew it was not the right time. So I got rid of everything that was so anything that was held as land, which was not in actual use, we got rid of. Okay. And the reason is this, see the advantage of having a practice and a real estate business at the same time, the properties the real estate businesses, it doesn't matter if the market goes up and down. If the fundamentals are right, your practice will continue to sustain your real estate. Right? So if you do that, right, and if your practice is cash flowing properly, it will bear your real estate. Now, originally, of course, I went and got mortgages, banks were very, were not interested in helping this hardware store that we bought at the last moment, the bank pulled out, nobody would guarantee it. Fortunately, we were able to get sympathetic friends who bankrolled it kind of guaranteed it. And that's how we got our first property. And once you're able to turn one thing around, then you can keep getting more and more and more. Initially suggestion is take small pieces now don't go for the 3 million 4 million $5 million properties go for 200 300,000 400,000. Because your practice if you're starting a practice, if it's small, do small, and then slowly slowly build on. Real estate is a, is this consistent long term process 15.. 20.. 30 years? Consistency means a lot. So to answer to your question, yes, banks have bankrolled it, mortgaged, we've taken the mortgage and the mortgage is paid really by your practice the cash flow from the practice, but the fundamentals have to be right, you don't artificially increase the rent, just to pay off your mortgage, it's not very wise, you do it, tweak it in such a way that your rent should be enough to pay for the mortgage it as if you're buying from as if you're renting from someone else. And you have to keep the properties of the practice entities separate the corporations or the partnerships have to be separate. Don't mix the two that will be a disaster. Because if you have any lawsuit one side or the other, whether on your property or in your practice, then they can own your your whole thing. But if you keep it separate, then even if you have a lawsuit in your practice, you cannot go after your property.
Coach JPMD 24:17
And so that brings up one of the thoughts I had was about owner occupied versus tenant occupied. So you can buy the practice and you can lease it to another physician or own it for yourself. And I know that banks are more favorable if you actually are occupying the facilities. How does that work with if your practice doesn't necessarily own that building, but you're leasing it out to someone else
Pariksith Singh, MD 24:42
Then the numbers have to be really good. The numbers have to be so good that banks don't worry about it. Banks may not give 80% may give 60% there are different rules, but the numbers have to be so good that you can put down 40% 30% and justifies itself. Or you find find a reason where the banks like you to occupy 50% or more. And and if you do, then it becomes easier for them because they know your business, especially if you've been here for a long time your business is good. And healthcare has been a strong industry. You know, last 15-20 years it hasn't gone down. I don't expect it to go down anyway.
Coach JPMD 25:20
Sure. And what about sharing space with other doctors? Then trying to, because I know that there's one time I tried to do that, and you were leary about self referrals or sharing patients or what can you give me some insight on?
Pariksith Singh, MD 25:35
Yeah. So the tricky part is, if you are renting someone, and if they are generating referrals for you, then it could be seen as inducement. If you remember the case, we had about, what, 15-20 years, 20 years ago or so, or some physicians rented space to a lab, Clearwater lab, if you remember. And they got the attorneys blasted, they gave them a letter or an opinion letter that was clean the lab was paying the money. And then when the Attorney General's Office went after the lab, the first in the lab, it was okay. All these people, these aren't even paying them rent to have their offices. And the understanding is they will refer patients to me. So what happened, the lab got out. Because, you know, kind of became what is the term they started helping the attorney general's office in their investigation. So suddenly they have bailed out. And all these physicians are on the line and the attorney general's office is very happy because Yeah, wow, we can showcase now, how many big fish we have caught. Who were abusing the system. And what rent are we talking about? In those days, 20 years ago, I think it was $400 for a small room $350. The mistake they made was they got some tickets for hunting clubs, or some special tickets, games. And once you do that, you get in trouble with and these physicians lost their licenses and jail it was it was not good.
Coach JPMD 27:15
So you're talking about a physician who rents space from a lab, but then also receives things from the lab,
Pariksith Singh, MD 27:21
They were renting space to the lab. They're renting space to them, but then guess what all their patients are gone. And it's convenient, right to go all the patients go here, right here, right? And then the lab is conveniently turned around and said no, it was not a fair market value arrangement. It was an inducement based arrangement. We have sought seen a podiatrist right to podiatrist in New Port Richey, who was doing research for wound care company. And they use these special dressings on the wound, especially the feet. And he got $300 for research for every patient, while the research was really, you know, kind of not really research. And then when the feds found out what happened, they went after the lab, the lab immediately said, Okay, these are the guys who get paid there. That's inducement. And the physician had to give up his license.
Coach JPMD 28:16
Pariksith Singh, MD 28:18
Yeah. So be careful with that.
Coach JPMD 28:20
Absolutely. And so back to real estate. Yeah. So what's the one thing you would tell a physician about commercial real estate that would help them make their lives easy and, and avoid some of these crazy things that you're used to you've just described? Especially for new physician so a new physician listening to the podcast today. How do they potentially get involved? What's one thing you would tell them?
Pariksith Singh, MD 28:49
Um, one thing if I ever tell you never be cash poor. Don't leverage yourself so much into buying real estate that you have no cash and you're totally dependent on month to month cash flow to survive. I've seen too many physicians get into trouble. Oh, their practice is doing well. Oh, suddenly, oh, look at this restaurant available for sale on. What is that? The road going on? 50 going to the go to Pine Island nearby this great restaurant. And the restaurant suddenly three months later bails out on them. And for five years, six years now I have not found another willing to go there. market has changed. You've seen how the area's changed. There are so many national level restaurant around. Nobody wants to go to that mom and pop restaurant anymore. And that property is totally gone and dilapidated. Do not become cash poor. I made the same mistake. I love real estate. So I bought so many properties. And guess what? Suddenly I was living month to month I said oh my God. If I don't get a good income this month? How do I pay off my mortgages, so never become cash poor, always keep that margin, have that discipline, you're not going to lose your whole career or your whole business. If you don't get that one deal, there is no such thing as that one deal that will make you or break you. It doesn't exist. It never has existed, it never will exist. And if it happens, it happens. Great. But don't go crazy on any deal that you have to make happen. If you go with that mindset, you're going to get in serious trouble.
Coach JPMD 30:40
Yeah. So there may be hospitalist physicians out there hospital based physicians who don't have a practice their work for working for the hospital, but they want to get into commercial real estate and you know, some of them are making good income.
Pariksith Singh, MD 30:52
What would you what would you tell them?
Coach JPMD 30:54
Then you have to approach it again, as a business, you have to make sure that you look at the cash flow, most important thing, cash flow all the way it's valued at $100,000. And your cash flow is zero, it may be a great deal. If it doesn't make money, what's the point? Unless you're going to be able to turn it around, right? So there is no such thing. As as an amazing deal, there's no such thing, you have to work hard, you have to look at it, there may be deals where the property is overpriced, you know, it's overpriced. But a cash flow is so strong that it can sustain you. And we've done those two. And if your cash flow is able to sustain you guess what, in three years you have refinance the property, you have paid off everything, and you're in a great position, you have to do your due diligence. cap rate is a concept that often comes and cap rate is basically what it means is your return on investment. Suppose you put $100 in you bought the property for $100, whether through a mortgage, whether you put your own cash in, and if you got $8 every year, as profit cap rate is eight. So if these physicians or hospitals want to buy real estate, and they have to study the real estate, they have to look at what the value is, what are the costs including everything, your taxes, your utilities, your pay amount for roof, for the roof for the parking lot, for the sign everything you have to for the handyman, that you're going to bring all those things, and then you have to look at what you're going to what will be the actual cash flow. Ideally, physicians should get someone who knows how to manage the property. Physicians are not good property managers. And just like property managers are not good physicians. So you get good property managers who are thorough, who are diligent, because there are laws about, you know, if the landlord or the tenant doesn't pay you in, you kick them out, they have their rights, right? You have to send proper notices. At the beginning of the month, you have to send them a letter, if they're not, if they're not, within seven days, they have to get a letter that they're not paid. And then it has to be followed up. You have to know everything has to be documented, just like in medicine. If you don't, and you suddenly after a month, okay, you wouldn't pay anything, you're out. That's not they're going to fight it and you may lose. So proper documentation a system, preferably a software to manage properties.
Yeah. Oh, this has been a great conversation, Dr. Singh, and really appreciate you taking the time and I know you're busy. And can I invite you in advance to talk about managed care next time?
Pariksith Singh, MD 33:41
Absolutely. I would love to, there's so much talk about real estate, we can go on for another couple of hours. But I think that should be good. I think people should read and do research. And there are some very good books on how to do good real estate properly. Keep learning, keep asking the experts keep researching and never be complacent. And thank you.
Coach JPMD 34:03
Thank you. Have a good one.
Pariksith Singh, MD 34:05
Coach JPMD 34:06
Bye. What a great episode with Dr. Singh. And so appreciate him spending time with us. And, you know, giving us his pearls of wisdom on real estate and medicine. And you almost need a glossary to go over some of the things that we talked about. And I was certainly going to have a blog post that kind of details, some of the things that he discussed in this podcast. But I certainly do recommend that if you are a physician looking to get into medical or looking to get into any type of real estate, that you find a good mentor you find someone that's done it before you find a good realtor and really think out of the box because that's what's going to kind of differentiate, differentiate yourself and be able to get you some good income property. And for sure, I know that if you have the opportunity to buy a building where you're practicing in. That is really one of the best things you can do as a physician. So, because you know, sometimes people think that the practice is worth, what it's worth, based on the patient population based on the equipment in there. But really, the practice is the real estate if you can own the real estate, and have that, that address that patients know about and can come to and then grow your practice around that address. Pay off your mortgage early and that gives you a passive income, and that will help you Practice Impossible. So don't forget to subscribe, share this podcast with your friends, and thanks for listening and see you in two weeks.