#11 What's wrong with my actuator?

It seems that hydronic zone valves have been around forever. They are pretty bulletproof!  But do you hear about end switches failing?  What's going on?  AND... what do I need to know before wiring a zone valve?

In this Episode, Greg and Dan discuss this common question from our Technical Support line:  what's wrong with my actuator?  Our Tech Support Gurus find that the culprit is typically a misapplication of the "end switch", a.k.a. the micro-switch.  They explain the role of an actuator that contains a micro-switch and what kind of inrush thresholds are required to operate them successfully.  They also talk about optimal installations including utilizing actuators with a ZVR relay control board that provides your customer with a top-notch product AND a top-notch warranty.

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Transcript

00:04

[Music]

00:06

welcome to ask Caleffi

00:08

the podcast that dives into real life

00:11

problems that plumbing and hvac

00:13

technicians face in the field we're your

00:15

hosts from the Caleffi tech support team

00:17

i'm greg tubbs and i'm dan firkus

00:19

welcome

00:20

we look forward to sharing some stories

00:22

from our tech calls and using our

00:23

background and expertise

00:25

to make your days a little easier

00:30

[Music]

00:31

hey there it's been a hot minute since

00:33

we've been back in the studio to record

00:34

anything

00:36

uh here we are going on episode 11.

00:43

yeah 11 weeks in welcome back everybody

00:45

thanks for coming back

00:46

so what do you want to talk about today

00:49

well you know greg i get a

00:50

ton of calls about uh zone valves and

00:53

actuators

00:54

in particular and switches yeah i can

00:57

agree with that i mean that

00:59

it seems to be something that hits hard

01:02

right around heating season right yeah

01:04

absolutely applications

01:06

using the end switches i had a

01:08

contractor the other day that called me

01:09

and

01:10

he was out on site and it was his third

01:13

actuator he was replacing

01:15

in three weeks and he was having that

01:17

end switch fail

01:18

boy yeah and that's it's tough to be on

01:21

the receiving end of that phone call too

01:23

because

01:25

it's a lot of frustration for them and

01:28

it doesn't make us look the best does it

01:30

right yeah i mean

01:32

certainly you know in his mind he was

01:34

thinking boy i need to maybe switch

01:36

brands because their end switches have

01:38

issues and

01:39

you know we had to really dive down deep

01:41

and sort out what the application was

01:44

using that end switch to to fix the

01:46

problem and that's kind of when you and

01:47

i discussed it's like you know what i

01:49

think we should really have a

01:51

you know have some time to talk about

01:54

that and

01:55

really explain you know the right and

01:57

wrong application

01:58

and the right and wrong end switch for

02:01

your applications because we have a

02:02

couple different options

02:03

we do so most of the time when we hear

02:05

about this it's usually with the z11100

02:10

or the z15100

02:14

yeah we really do those tend to be the

02:16

two models that you

02:17

you know in fact he did he had a z15100

02:20

actuator and zero's on his third one so

02:22

what's unique about that

02:24

yeah so let's we'll dive into the tech

02:27

specs on

02:27

on both of those valves so the z15100

02:32

24 volt motor um it has the

02:37

read type end switch in it

02:40

and it has terminal blocks yeah normally

02:43

closed

02:44

normally closed actuator and then we

02:46

have the

02:49

zero zero z11100 has the same specs but

02:51

instead of having

02:52

the terminal block the screw heads on it

02:55

it's got

02:56

two black and two red wires yeah the 18

02:58

inch wires

02:59

right so both of them run that same

03:02

what we call a read switch it's not a

03:04

micro switch yep

03:05

it's a sealed switch to keep out any

03:07

boiler room contaminants like dust

03:09

or if you have some sort of corrosive

03:13

um yeah off gases going on in there

03:16

it'll it'll it'll protect it sure yeah

03:19

kind of more environmental protection

03:22

right

03:22

right so you're protecting that switch

03:24

from any environmental issues

03:27

in the mechanical room or wherever it's

03:29

located

03:31

the problem with that switch is it's

03:33

really not rated for a whole lot of

03:35

amperage

03:36

meaning you cannot pump a lot of

03:38

amperage through it

03:40

yeah that one is what point four amp

03:42

maximum load

03:43

yeah and that's really low yeah i mean

03:46

perfect application for that is going to

03:48

be tied into a zone relay board like one

03:50

of our zvr

03:51

boards um great application where

03:54

you know you don't have a lot of load on

03:56

the end switch you're just essentially

03:57

using it like a dry contact right

04:01

and when you go and hook these to

04:03

anything but that

04:05

we're talking an aqua stat even a newer

04:08

boiler control

04:09

and we don't know all the specifics

04:11

because every manufacturer no

04:12

manufacturer

04:13

posts you know what kind of inrush

04:17

current how many va

04:18

their signal circuit gives off

04:22

right exactly they don't they don't post

04:24

all information no

04:25

sometimes you have to dig deep to find

04:27

that really what you end up having to do

04:29

is do some testing with a meter

04:30

yeah and and that takes time and messing

04:33

around right

04:34

so when you see that connected to you

04:37

know the aqua stats

04:38

relay switching relay or directly to a

04:41

boiler some of the older boilers used

04:42

fan centers inside

04:44

right you know those had you know too

04:46

high of a a current in rush

04:48

right through their signal circuit and

04:50

that and that actually was the

04:51

application that he was using that valve

04:53

in he was using it tied right back into

04:55

an older boiler

04:57

and he's like boy you know your end

04:58

switches are only lasting uh

05:00

a week yeah a week or a couple days yeah

05:03

so we talked about that and it's like

05:04

okay yeah

05:05

i mean with your application and the

05:07

inrush on that fan

05:08

center that you have in that old boiler

05:11

it's not going to hold up to that i mean

05:13

that thing has higher than a point four

05:16

point four amp

05:17

in rush right and what's funny is you'll

05:20

get

05:21

this where they take and tie all the end

05:22

switches together and bring it back to

05:24

the aqua stat to bring the aquastat

05:26

on right you'll find that

05:30

it's usually in systems with multiple

05:32

zones obviously

05:34

and there's only one or maybe two zones

05:37

that it gives

05:37

problem with and one zone is fine yeah

05:40

he had three zones and there was one

05:42

zone in particular that he was having

05:44

and he said it was the main zone in the

05:46

home so it's the zone that's going to

05:47

call the most

05:48

right probably the lower level or

05:49

something like that right

05:51

so that one's on and off all on its own

05:54

more often than he would

05:55

it would call with another zone valve or

05:58

the other two zone valves

06:00

so if if you were to take that in rush

06:03

and bridge it across

06:04

all three valves calling it once they

06:07

might survive a few cycles

06:08

right yeah if they're calling together

06:10

yup because then it's going to kind of

06:12

share the load

06:13

but if you if it's just a single one

06:16

that's when

06:16

we see the problem it eats the end

06:18

switch and it's done and over with it's

06:20

not going to call the boiler on yeah

06:22

sometimes it'll do it the first call

06:24

right yeah i've had i've seen that too

06:26

received calls with that

06:28

sure yeah what was what was sad about

06:31

that

06:31

is he was there replacing his third

06:34

actuator

06:34

before he took time to call us and have

06:36

the discussion so

06:38

yeah you know boy if if you see

06:40

something like that in the field

06:42

please give us a call right away because

06:44

you know one now he's made three trips

06:46

to the job

06:47

you know customers losing some

06:49

confidence he was losing some confidence

06:51

and it's like okay

06:52

you you know the problem isn't

06:55

that the end switch had issues

06:58

the problem is it's misapplied right but

07:01

a counter guy

07:02

selling the product doesn't know any

07:04

better well they don't know the

07:05

application they don't know the

07:06

application

07:07

and they just assume things and it's

07:09

easy to do right

07:10

a contractor comes in they need they

07:13

need a product

07:14

to do the job yep for all practical

07:16

purposes

07:17

this is going to work they sell the

07:19

product it goes out the door

07:22

he has a problem with it well right you

07:24

know they don't know the application so

07:26

they're walking up to the counter and i

07:27

need a 24

07:28

volt normally closed coffee actuator

07:31

with an end switch

07:32

right well that's what he got right

07:35

so we know the problem

07:39

we kind of alluded to some of the fixes

07:41

for it

07:43

what are some of the things that you

07:44

like to tell guys to do well one is

07:47

look at the actuator that we offer with

07:49

that high current end switch

07:51

i'm sure we didn't talk a lot about that

07:53

but we have another actuator available

07:55

it's our z111

07:59

right it's going to be the same 24 volt

08:02

normally closed actuator

08:03

but it has the high current end switch

08:06

in it

08:07

fair enough yeah i mean that's one

08:09

option

08:10

the only issue that i might see with

08:13

that

08:15

is the end switch in that

08:18

high current model that guy's rated

08:21

for a quarter so 0.25 amps all the way

08:24

to five amps so you can power a pump

08:26

with that thing

08:27

right if you had to the only issue is

08:30

if you're hooking it to a um a low

08:32

current system

08:34

you got to worry about them contacts

08:36

chattering so if the if the inrush is

08:38

okay at

08:39

you know we'll say 0.3 amps but then it

08:41

drops down

08:42

to we'll say 0.15 or something like that

08:47

the contacts start to chatter and when

08:49

they chatter

08:51

they start to pit when they pit that's

08:53

when you got to worry about them

08:54

contacts

08:55

insulating right so again you got to

08:58

kind of keep an

08:58

eye on your application if you want to

09:01

use

09:02

the z111 or the z151 actuators

09:07

we're going to tell you look you really

09:09

should hook these guys up to

09:12

a zvr relay or you know a comparable

09:16

relay

09:16

panel and i know that you know it's

09:19

making things more complicated but it

09:21

really isn't it's making it a lot easier

09:22

to troubleshoot and it's a lot nicer and

09:24

neater

09:25

install when it's all said and done

09:27

you're right you're right absolutely and

09:28

a couple other benefits with that

09:30

is you know you start trying you think

09:32

about out there you know

09:33

we've all been out on the job site we've

09:35

all installed multiple zone valves and

09:36

now you're trying to wire them together

09:38

and

09:39

pair up end switches and tie them back

09:41

to a boiler

09:42

and you know you end up with this clump

09:45

of of wire nuts somewhere

09:47

right that someday you're gonna have to

09:50

troubleshoot because you'll have an

09:51

issue right you know with our relay

09:54

board you know it's very simple you can

09:56

use the

09:56

you know use the low current or the

09:58

micro switch um so grab the standard

10:00

actuator you're gonna find stock that

10:02

any any supplier

10:04

tie a cvr panel in with it it's very

10:08

easy to sort out your thermostats

10:10

to the zone valves the transformers

10:12

built in and then you have

10:14

one end switch going back to your boiler

10:16

so

10:17

or i shouldn't say n switch one um set

10:19

of dry contacts going back to turn your

10:21

boiler on

10:22

and that has a higher amp load rating on

10:24

that

10:25

relay so you're protected whether

10:28

you know the boiler is high current or

10:30

low current

10:31

or higher or lower in rush absolutely

10:34

because you're just running through that

10:35

dry contact right so then the other

10:37

advantage

10:38

is warranty right so all of our

10:41

actuators come with a three year

10:42

warranty our zvr panels come with a

10:44

three three-year warranty

10:46

when you install them together you can

10:48

give your customer a five-year warranty

10:50

on everything and that's a feather in

10:52

everybody's cap everybody looks like a

10:54

winner there

10:54

right because now you're gonna have a

10:56

system that is married together

10:58

and and matched properly

11:02

and and a longer warranty sure and the

11:05

other thing i kind of

11:06

i want to touch on is going back to the

11:10

z111

11:11

900 the high current switch model

11:15

not a lot of suppliers stock it

11:18

so i'll give guys that number as an

11:20

option because they don't wanna they

11:22

don't wanna mess around with

11:23

either doing a zone panel or they don't

11:26

wanna add an isolation relay in there we

11:28

didn't really discuss that much either

11:30

but yeah it's another option it's

11:31

another

11:32

option get around but it's more work

11:34

right it's more

11:35

wire nuts and spade connectors and more

11:37

wire and more junk

11:38

another relay and yeah it's it doesn't

11:41

look as nice

11:43

so but you're gonna go to that supply

11:45

house

11:46

after you've talked to one of us and say

11:47

yeah i need this actuator guy says it'll

11:49

work

11:51

yeah we don't have that they don't

11:52

nobody stocks it because nobody

11:54

nobody understands the applications as

11:56

good as

11:57

you will in the field after you go

11:59

through these problems right

12:01

yeah exactly yeah i get that a lot where

12:03

the supplier doesn't stock it and

12:05

you know part of that is you know i

12:07

think them knowing and understanding it

12:10

sure but yeah i mean the ultimate the

12:13

best case scenario

12:15

with the z111 or the z151

12:19

actuators is to wire them in with a zvr

12:22

relay

12:23

yes troubleshooting um nice neat clean

12:27

job when it's all said and done

12:28

you have your transformer there it's

12:30

sized properly

12:32

everything's ready to go yeah it doesn't

12:33

really get any easier than that you can

12:35

power your thermostats off it if you

12:37

need to

12:38

right yeah i i think we pretty well

12:42

covered it

12:42

i mean yeah it's a hot topic so i mean i

12:45

think it was

12:45

you know good that we decided to jump in

12:48

and talk about that

12:50

absolutely so what do you want to come

12:51

back and talk about next week

12:53

well i think choosing the correct mixing

12:55

valve for point of distribution

12:57

would be a good topic to talk about i

12:58

think that's a great topic

13:00

all right we'll see you next week thank

13:02

you for tuning in

13:04

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13:06

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13:08

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13:11

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