#18 Plumbing Session! What Are The Most Common Questions?

What tech support questions does Caleffi get over and over again? You might be surprised! What to do with air trapped in a plumbing system? Can I install a thermostatic mixing valve upside down? Why is this pressure reducing valve over-pressurizing the system? Listen to Greg and Dan explain these and more.

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Transcript

00:02

[Music]

00:04

welcome to ask Caleffi

00:06

the podcast that dives into real life

00:09

problems that plumbing and hvac

00:10

technicians face in the field

00:12

we're your hosts from the Caleffi tech

00:14

support team i'm greg tubbs

00:16

and i'm dan ferkus welcome we look

00:18

forward to sharing some stories from our

00:20

tech

00:20

calls and using our background and

00:22

expertise to make your days a little

00:24

easier

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[Music]

00:29

hey there welcome back thanks for tuning

00:31

in

00:32

how are we doing dan we're doing good

00:34

yeah thanks for coming back everybody

00:36

what's new anything not a whole lot new

00:39

no i saw that you caught some pretty big

00:41

bluegills recently yeah i did have a fun

00:44

time out on the lake yeah

00:45

it's always a good time absolutely you

00:47

know we're not all work all the time we

00:49

do like to play every once in a while

00:51

yes we do

00:52

something about uh catching fish and uh

00:55

playing like a kid it's all right

00:57

curious nothing wrong with that it's uh

01:00

we are

01:01

it's finally summer it is we're out of

01:03

the the doldrums of feeding season

01:05

hopefully hopefully for most of our

01:08

listening area at least

01:09

yeah yeah for our canadian viewers and

01:12

alaska

01:12

viewers right yeah you never know what

01:15

could be going on there it may still be

01:17

still be just buttoning up their heating

01:20

season you never know

01:21

we're getting a ton of plumbing calls

01:23

lately yeah definitely an uptick on the

01:25

plumbing calls

01:27

one of the calls that i get a couple

01:29

times a year

01:30

is someone will call and they're looking

01:33

for a way of removing air out of a

01:36

plumbing system

01:37

whether it's research or not you know

01:40

maybe the

01:42

the plumbing system just has a lot of

01:43

off-gassing in it on a well

01:46

right or it's a system that you know

01:48

maybe has a recirc line but they don't

01:50

have a ton of use

01:51

right yeah low use you mean a

01:53

residential home you think of a

01:54

residential home

01:56

at least my home all day that plumbing

01:58

system is sitting there not being used

02:00

because nobody's there

02:01

so you know that gives uh ample time for

02:04

air to

02:06

to accumulate in the in the system right

02:09

and i think the most commonly asked

02:11

a request the most common request that

02:14

we get is

02:15

hey do you have or can i use your air

02:19

separator

02:20

air separator yeah i get a lot of asks

02:23

about that as well for the 551 yeah to

02:26

be used in a

02:27

domestic plumbing system yeah and

02:29

unfortunately

02:31

no one it's not low lead

02:35

so not low lead it's not certified for

02:37

that

02:38

so don't do it right put that coalescing

02:40

mesh inside um

02:42

it's a multi-pass device where your

02:44

plumbing system might now

02:46

it could uh it could really destroy it

02:48

it sure could

02:50

so but we do have a device to work in

02:52

that we use them we do

02:53

provided it's supplied correctly it it's

02:56

probably not going to be

02:57

the best as far as like being installed

03:00

in a

03:01

horizontal run you need to have it on a

03:03

rise yeah it's not a pass-through device

03:05

it's going to be

03:06

an air vent right so it's going to let

03:08

air out that migrates into it

03:10

it's not going to necessarily separate

03:12

that air and remove it

03:13

exactly yeah the plumb vent is ideal for

03:17

risers yeah to the best of my knowledge

03:19

it's the only air vent on the market

03:21

that is

03:22

approved for domestic systems right it

03:24

is and you look at

03:26

you know a lot of domestic water

03:28

applications or

03:30

you know especially high rises with

03:32

multiple risers

03:33

you know those risers it might not be a

03:35

bad idea to put one at the top of each

03:37

riser because that's where that air is

03:39

going to migrate to

03:40

exactly it's all going to float up and

03:42

just sit there and hover

03:44

and if somebody doesn't i think the

03:47

biggest complaint we get

03:48

when there isn't one in there is yeah i

03:50

turn on the faucet and i get a big

03:52

gush of air and it spits at me yeah well

03:55

then

03:55

yeah that's that's what warrants the use

03:57

of a plumb vent right sure right yeah

03:59

and we

04:00

then you know what i get that call a lot

04:02

and that's one comment i get a lot is

04:03

that boy we open the faucet and we get a

04:05

burst of air behind it

04:07

it's not gonna totally eliminate that

04:10

but it is gonna

04:11

it's gonna be better than having nothing

04:13

in your system for air removal which

04:15

most domestic systems

04:16

won't will not have anything for air

04:18

removal sure and

04:20

it can also help prevent dead heading a

04:21

pump yes it can

04:23

i mean we've seen some smaller systems

04:25

where they run smaller pumps and

04:27

for whatever reason maybe the pump shut

04:30

off

04:30

and somehow air got in there and then

04:33

the pump was turned back on again

04:35

and now it's now it's just spinning

04:37

really hot right

04:38

yeah you're dead heading and overworking

04:40

that pump and not moving any water

04:42

right where if you had a riser somewhere

04:45

towards the end

04:46

and you were able to mitigate that air

04:49

you wouldn't have that problem right

04:51

that pump can push through right

04:53

you're not going to burn that out what's

04:54

another good one we see

04:56

i mean there's a handful boy there's a

04:58

lot of topics we have

05:00

yeah uh i had another one the other day

05:03

mixing valve i know we just covered

05:05

mixing valves but

05:06

well we we just covered them but we

05:08

continue to get a ton of questions on

05:10

certainly can the mixing valve in this

05:12

case was a thermostatic a 521 can it be

05:15

installed

05:16

upside down answer is absolutely

05:18

absolutely yup any

05:20

any configuration yeah if the knob's

05:23

facing left right

05:24

up down it doesn't matter it doesn't

05:26

know the difference it's always gonna

05:28

work

05:28

how about balancing oh a lot of

05:31

balancing questions

05:32

boy yeah from sizing to cross

05:35

referencing a lot of cross or do i need

05:38

to have balancing

05:40

yes yes you do that would be ideal

05:43

let's just start an answer yeah short

05:45

answer yes it's ideal to have balancing

05:48

in a domestic hot water research system

05:52

especially one with multiple risers

05:54

right obviously if it's going

05:56

all the way out just to hit the farthest

05:57

bathroom away from the house

05:59

probably not so necessary yeah i just

06:02

had a

06:03

question on a home and it was a pretty

06:05

large home and it had

06:06

you know a three-quarter inch recirc

06:07

line coming back through the pump

06:09

to the mixing valve but it had two half

06:12

inch

06:14

branches tying into that and it went to

06:16

two separate

06:17

ends of the home and they were having an

06:19

issue through one end of the home

06:21

because again they weren't balanced so

06:23

in that one they actually went back and

06:25

they put our 116 thermal setter nice you

06:27

know thermostatic balancing valves in

06:29

they already had a variable pump and

06:32

that'll be a perfect

06:33

perfect product to get those two two

06:35

ends of the homes balanced out

06:37

that thermal balancing valve the 116 is

06:41

a very nice problem solving valve i

06:43

don't want to

06:44

you know go out there and say yeah you

06:47

can just put this

06:48

in anywhere and it'll work anywhere

06:50

realistically you should

06:51

know what you want for flow going

06:53

through that circuit

06:54

right but this does a pretty nice job of

06:58

taking care of some of the on yeah it

07:00

does it does because of that

07:02

thermostatic control and having the

07:04

ability to modulate the flow rate

07:06

through it based on

07:07

the temperature coming back you know

07:09

balancing down as low as 0.35 gpm

07:12

or as high as 2.1 on our smaller models

07:16

uh it's going to do a great job of

07:17

getting the water where it needs to be

07:19

to get

07:20

both of them to an equal equal

07:22

temperature right and the fact that it

07:23

just

07:24

it allows that loop to get up to

07:25

temperature and then closes it off

07:27

slightly

07:28

just so it gets a trickle through and

07:31

then just enough to monitor the

07:32

temperature coming through that right

07:34

and then it allows

07:35

the rest of the flow to get out to the

07:36

further yeah further branches

07:39

well what else can we speak on prvs yeah

07:42

the rvs that's always a big topic yeah

07:45

it's i know we've covered a lot of that

07:46

so i mean we're kind of

07:48

maybe a little redundant but boy we just

07:50

continue to

07:51

have the calls keep coming in yeah and

07:55

and a lot of it i hate to say it it has

07:57

to do with either sizing

07:58

you know improperly sized and

08:02

or it's dirty yeah actually we've had a

08:05

big rash of them

08:07

coming back that were dirty yeah you

08:09

know we do you know and and i had one

08:11

where

08:12

you know they put it in and they had

08:14

issues with pressure control it would

08:16

creep up

08:17

over time um so they went and replaced

08:19

it

08:20

right that one again did the same thing

08:22

sure and it's like okay guys have you

08:24

have you flushed off the line and flush

08:26

the line before you're putting the prv

08:28

in uh once you get it in are you

08:31

actually

08:31

you know if you're having an issue

08:33

pulling that cartridge out and cleaning

08:34

it out

08:35

right well and i think i've said it too

08:38

and i can

08:38

i'm always happy to go through it again

08:40

but basically

08:42

what what we would tell the guy to do is

08:44

before you install it

08:46

go over to the line with a with a bucket

08:48

ice cream pail

08:50

five gallon bucket whatever you can fit

08:51

underneath the incoming line

08:54

open it up and purge it out right see

08:56

how much junk is in there right

08:57

yeah get the garbage out before you put

08:59

the prv in yeah i mean there's going to

09:01

be

09:01

there may be a ton of debris and there

09:02

might only be a few specks of sand right

09:04

no

09:06

then go install your prv make your

09:09

settings

09:09

and pressurize the system and see how it

09:12

goes

09:13

if you're watching that that needle rise

09:16

up

09:17

then we're going to question do you have

09:20

thermal expansion in

09:22

that domestic hot water system right

09:24

yeah that

09:25

a lot of the time there isn't no yeah a

09:27

lot of time there really isn't

09:29

and then we'll get the question back

09:32

well doesn't this have the feature where

09:34

it allows

09:34

the pressure to go back no no we don't

09:37

have that

09:38

that pressure bites essentially like

09:39

putting a check valve in right i mean

09:41

it's going to stop any

09:43

you know that that you can kind of

09:45

overcome thermal expansion in a system

09:47

that doesn't have a prv

09:48

because you know that pressure can move

09:50

i mean it could move all the way back

09:52

out to the street and and get absorbed

09:54

there it's not going to be as big of an

09:55

issue but once you put that prv in

09:58

it's like putting a check valve in yeah

10:00

so any thermal expansion

10:02

on the downward side of that has nowhere

10:05

to go

10:06

so it's going to creep up it's going to

10:08

creep up it may give you the illusion

10:10

that the pressure reducing valve isn't

10:12

controlling pressure

10:13

it may trip your relief valve on your

10:15

water heater

10:16

typically yeah that's where you're gonna

10:18

find it yeah so

10:19

thermal expansion got to have it with

10:22

those prvs in there

10:23

yeah it's very important how about

10:26

uh tank mixer

10:30

any cool questions on the tank mixer

10:33

i just had a guy actually installing the

10:36

tank mixer

10:37

and he's in an area where all the

10:39

plumbing was half inch

10:41

and all of our tank mixers come out as

10:42

three quarter

10:44

so he was you know trying to adapt to it

10:47

to get down to half inch copper and

10:50

um what a lot of you guys might not know

10:53

is we have a fitting configuration table

10:55

in the back of our catalog

10:58

and i was able to go in there and

10:59

because the tank mixer uses our one-inch

11:02

union connection which is

11:03

that's our most popular connection or

11:05

our most common connection

11:07

is the one-inch union yeah we use that

11:09

one-inch g thread or straight thread

11:11

bspp british parallel pipeline

11:14

thread bridge straight parallel pipe

11:16

thread bspp

11:19

that gets used on a lot of our product

11:22

and

11:22

we have a huge array of different types

11:24

of fittings from

11:26

pex expansion to press

11:29

yeah pax press sweat npt you name it

11:33

yeah what's interesting though is in his

11:35

area

11:36

a lot of the system they're smaller

11:38

applications smaller homes a lot of the

11:40

homes are plumbed in half

11:42

inch wow sounds small to me yeah but

11:46

in his area that's pretty common so was

11:49

able to take them back to that fitting

11:51

configuration table

11:52

and you know found the tank mixer in

11:54

there and we were able to set them up

11:56

with a half inch

11:58

pex beautiful connection tail piece and

12:01

connection

12:02

so and he came in he bought a dozen of

12:04

them or he's going to go online and

12:05

order a dozen of them so that

12:07

you know then the next assortment of

12:09

prvs he puts in because

12:11

the half he's going to use two per valve

12:13

because the half inches

12:14

i'm sorry the cold is half inch coming

12:16

in and the hot is half inch going out so

12:18

you can adapt to it without having to

12:20

use extra fittings

12:22

yeah so it kind of goes to show you if

12:24

you see something in our catalog or

12:26

don't see something in your catalog

12:28

and you're wondering if you can make it

12:29

work call

12:31

us we're happy to walk you through it we

12:34

can give you

12:34

kit numbers or we can give the

12:36

individual part numbers right

12:38

directly where to get them yeah direct

12:41

where to get them

12:42

and get you squared away yeah our

12:44

product's pretty

12:45

versatile i mean we've got a lot of

12:47

fittings to

12:49

to get to a lot of different

12:50

applications and make it easier save

12:52

your fittings save you time

12:54

yeah we're happy to help you with that

12:56

yeah i mean

12:58

we're doing pretty good on that

12:59

selection

13:01

for those of you that use a lot of cpvc

13:03

or pvc

13:05

that's not an option for us no push fit

13:08

is not an option currently

13:10

um yeah not yet it could be downroad

13:13

could be it's becoming more popular

13:15

we're getting more and more asks

13:17

for that yeah there's a handful of

13:19

products are getting more asked for so

13:22

stay tuned we could start seeing some i

13:24

guess that's the other side too if there

13:26

is something that you'd like to see

13:28

ask yeah because that's how it gets the

13:30

more people call in and talk to us

13:32

we'll make notes and we will forward the

13:35

email on to the big man

13:37

right and the big man will go you know

13:39

we keep seeing these emails and requests

13:41

for it

13:41

we're going to have to do something

13:43

right we're just small enough where we

13:45

can

13:45

yeah i don't know if i can't guarantee

13:47

it's going to be a two-month or a

13:48

10-month turnaround

13:50

but we're going to make strides to make

13:53

it happen

13:53

no yeah absolutely when we listen to

13:55

your requests

13:56

absolutely well i think that's it it was

13:59

just kind of a random

14:00

plumbing topic podcast today but it's a

14:03

good moment conversation

14:05

yeah it's something that just kind of

14:07

keeps coming up and

14:08

we love hearing about it and we'd like

14:10

to talk about it so

14:12

until next time we'll see you next time

14:14

all right

14:16

thank you for tuning in if you ever need

14:19

help please feel free to contact our

14:21

tech support team

14:22

anytime at techsupport.us

14:26

caleffi.com or call us during our

14:28

business hours

14:30

at 7 30 a.m to 4 30 p.m

14:33

central time at 414-238-2360

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