Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show

Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show - Season 1 Ep 3 with Lebo Diseko (Part 1)

April 29, 2022 Season 1 Episode 3

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Mista Pierre thIs in conversation with the BBC foreign correspondent Lebo Diseko.

Lebo talks about her formative years in Oxford, being a child of political exiles, and the influence of Jazz in South Africa.

Podcast artwork by John Dyer - paulwindledesign.co.uk

Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Website
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Speaker 1: 0:01

Hello, everybody. Welcome to 45 40 fives, episode number three, I'm your host, Mr. Pier. Welcome all. And I hope you're all feeling fine and DDY as I am ish. So I'm sat here on the banks of the river Lee. Well, actually I'm in the collapse heap. I've had my first form of exercises. Six months after I completed is not very aggressively the London marathon. Now, while my abused egos continues to tell me that it was a pretty experience. My guess, however, gave me an inspiring perspective as she did with many other subjects discussed in this episode. Now label Ekko. You better pronounce that, right? Who? No, for a quick thinking and decision making, let's say had some D whittling down her 45 40 fives. Therefore I had to split the podcast into two parts, part one discusses her formative years, the influence of jazz in South Africa and also her early correspondence with famous pop stars. Part two Dells more into her professional career where she famously got locked in the capital building where the pro trumps reporters stormed in back in January, 2021, cheeking us aside. We had a great long conversation, which I had to split to two parts just to make sure you guys got everything that we discussed. So without further ado, let's get into episode three or 45, 5, 5, 5. Hi label, bro. Welcome to 45 40 fives. How are you?

Speaker 2: 1:32

Uh, level<laugh> imagine it with a, you great start. Imagine it. It does it not, not French, but like label it's short for Kia label. Huh? So level Isler short,

Speaker 1: 1:46

Great start. Got it. Right. But I'm not gonna try

Speaker 2: 1:48

Pronounce it. Perfect. Li I like, I like the French you, I<laugh> sorry. I, she, yeah. I,

Speaker 1: 1:58

But how have you been anyway besides me pronouncing your name badly. Good.

Speaker 2: 2:01

Good, good,

Speaker 1: 2:01

Good, good. Um, where have you been? I can't keep up with you Brazil, right?

Speaker 2: 2:05

Yes. I've just come back from Brazil. It was amazing. We were talking to, uh, black and brown women who are gonna basically decide who runs the country. Wow. In October. So I'm excited about that. That's a documentary that's coming out and then I'm off to South Africa for a month, um, to report to decent corresponding, um, on Monday. So,

Speaker 1: 2:27

Well, I look forward to your documentary to check that out. When's it coming out? When's it due to be aired?

Speaker 2: 2:31

Um, in the middle of may. So excellent.

Speaker 1: 2:33

Excited. I look forward to that now. How did we meet now? What I can remember is we met with run crew being up to Charlie. Do. Yeah. Um, I remember meeting your boss. We ran together. First of all, do you still run? Do you still,

Speaker 2: 2:43

Yeah, I am.<laugh> been training for marathon at the moment. One I, the pandemic really took my, um, running discipline out out of me. Yeah. I did run, but not the sorts of distances that I had been doing before, but yeah, in

Speaker 1: 2:59

The divulge, which marathon you are

Speaker 2: 3:01

Going, um, oh, it's Richmond. It's not a fancy foreign trip, but um, that's when I come back from South Africa, I'll I'll

Speaker 1: 3:08

Brilliant. Yeah. When you said about the pandemic come taking toll. So, you know, I did the London marathon badly. Um,<laugh> it started and stopped it. Can

Speaker 2: 3:17

We rephrase that? You, how many people have completed the London marathon? How many people have done a path? They both thank you very much. It was, I, I also was broken when I did the London marathon. In fact, I was injured afterwards, but it was amazing. I bet you thought it's an amazing experience. Okay.

Speaker 1: 3:34

I was ill. I was a bit of a man flu, but you probably thought it was. Yeah, but I had a man flew and I shouldn't really have run. I could energy out of it, but I built up all this, you know, support. I was doing it for gr and, and changing faces. I wasn't gonna give up and do that then. And then I was losing my energy. And then I think towards the end, I was just struggling, man. I wasn't enjoying it. And you know, and I, you know, I didn't wanna be like running with the road sweepers right behind me. Do you know what I mean? I just wanted to get there, but it was, it wasn't getting that bad, but I did enjoy it eventually. And just, but I glad I, I did it, but it wasn't pretty towards the end. I'm not gonna lie. It was really difficult. So congratulations in doing your marathon again.

Speaker 2: 4:06

Yeah. Well that is marathons. I've, I've cried in marathons.<laugh> wow. I<laugh>, I've been elated in marathons. Yeah. But I find running a really good, um, ah, it's something that I, I use a lot in life. Yeah. Like, um, the ups and downs, the kind of pushing through stuff. Um, also some of the techniques you use for, for running as well. Um, I apply them. I use them for my life.<laugh> I think, I think it's a really good teacher and I think it's just in terms of life lessons and also kind of strategies for life. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:46

I'm glad you look at it like that. I mean, I haven't run since the marathon and I really need to get back on it. I thought I've done it now. I just rest them, my laurels, but I do find it cathartic and you got some time and to think, and you think I can think creatively and you're just running. You can switch off. And uh, yeah, I'm talking myself back into running on really? So<laugh>

Speaker 2: 5:03

Yes.

Speaker 1: 5:03

So back to how we met random crew being up to Charlie dark, um, what, what can I say about meeting you was, was amazing. Uh, you know, you, you welcomed me to the, to, to, to the group really well. Um, but when I was just observing other people and watching the large group of people, he's meet at the ACE hotel and I observed you, I wasn't observing, you know, but you just hold your own. You're quite, I think it I'm gonna embarrass you now, but you're quite stately. You hold your own. You're quite Regal. You just like preside sometimes. Do you know what I mean? You just chill and just like, hold your own. You're not, you know, you're quite self assured. I think you're not gonna be strangely, but that's the impression I got from me as well. You don't don't stand for any rubbage as well.

Speaker 2: 5:41

Um, well, yeah, it's always interesting how other people see you? Um, I think one of the things I loved about run them crew was that, um, it was, everybody was kind of outsiders in their own way. Yeah. And I often in life felt like a bit of an outsider, um, in the playground I was, you know, I, I was always, I always had a lot of friends, but you know, I was the child of, um, political exile. Um, we, my whole childhood, well, you know, up until kind of the age of 10, yeah. 11, we were trying to get our status sorted here. My parents were from South Africa. They were on anti part activists. Yeah. Um, I grew up in Oxford. Very, very white. Wow. I'm obviously not. Um,<laugh> yeah. I had a very strong sense of, um, my blackness and my Africanness mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, but obviously there was no to share that with. Yeah. And the way it came through was often like through music, a lot of the music that I like nobody else was interested in. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I've always had the ability to make some very outgoing and had lots of friends, but I've I've I, it's interesting to hear<laugh> yeah. See how you viewed me in a group.

Speaker 1: 6:56

Yeah. Yeah. But no, it is a compliment, but you just hold your own in, in a way you said I had to get my together. It's like, you know, the way you just carry yourself and you just you're quite, uh, I don't know, just the way your whole conduct is really, really impressive. So, you know, I find that, so it's a compliment there. So thank you. Let's get into one of the first tracks because, um, we've got quite a few to get through.

Speaker 2: 7:14

<laugh>, let's get

Speaker 1: 7:15

The first track and we can talk about, you know, you coming into London or further, and you know, when you first landed, really, That's a beautiful track. That's uh, Aly Yana and that's 10.

Speaker 2: 10:11

Yeah. So, um, this is quite a recent tracks by, uh, a guy called an Yun who is a south African jazz musician. Um, but it really reminds me of my dad. It reminds me of growing up. It reminds me of Sunday afternoon. Lovely. And Tim is a township, um, in Johannesburg, my family's from Soweto, um, from a part of sweater called Orlando east. But, um, it just, even though I think it came out around in somewhere in thousand two in early 2000, so I'm not gonna pretend I know the exact dates, but, um, it just really encapsulates, encapsulates for me that kind of, um, like kind of sixties jazz, um, that my dad used to listen to to a lot. Um, it just, and I remember, you know, he'd bring out all his records at the weekends and on Sundays. And it was like, you know, as I said, my parents were in political exile when my, my dad left the country, when he was in his early twenties, he, he never saw his parents again. Um, so I don't know, like it was, there was this yearning for home and this kind of, when I think of, when I hear this song, I hear like the wrists, it makes me think of sunshine. It makes me, and it also makes me think of now sitting in my dad's kitchen, in his house now in Janice book, it's just very, my dad of very kind of, um, a all hark back to a certain kind of, um, south African jazz, south African music. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, an era as well when, um, things were so difficult for black people, but black people would turn out when I tell you in style. Yeah. When I tell you like, um, those kind of Harlem pictures, that's how people would dress. And of course, you know, the good, you know, the, the, the jazz holes and the good times that they manage to have. Yeah. So it just reminds me of all of that. And I just thought it's very my childhood, very, my dad.

Speaker 1: 12:12

That's lovely. I wanna touch on that actually. You know, you saying things are different with black people. What was it like for you living with apartheid and was it the same in, in rural, um, or just outside the major cities as it was in the center?

Speaker 2: 12:25

Well, we came here when I was, I was two when we came over. Wow. So, I mean, I grew up in Oxford, but what was ever present in my house was the political struggle. Yeah. And, um, yeah, the kind of brutality. I think my, my, it was interesting for me recently when we had all of the discussions about racial justice and people wondering how to speak about it with their children, because my were really upfront with me. And obviously they would tell me in a child-friendly way, but, you know, the things that people were going through were real. Um, I think, um, the erase, the racism of a apart was horrific. Um, what was as horrific. And isn't talked about so much as kind of the BT, the brutality of kind of broken families. You talk about the rural areas, the way that a apartheid operated it basically made it so that as a black person, you didn't have the rights to, you know, you were kind of dumped in the worst bits of the country and you didn't have the rights to exist in other bits of your country. Wow. You didn't have the rights to own a land in certain parts of the country. So yeah, I, I, those were real things that people experienced. And so I think it's also interesting when I think of my parents. Cause they were so young. Yeah. And just like lots of people they weren't, um, alone in their mm-hmm<affirmative> um, just gave up everything to, um, do what they could to make things different, to make things better. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:06

And how was jazz? So why is Joe so important or so influential in South Africa? Because Asia just affects so many areas of the country more than, I'm not saying indigenous music in the kind, but jazz seem to be very, very popular in South Africa. I,

Speaker 2: 14:18

I really have no idea. And that's something to ask my dad. Yeah. But I, I have to say there's a, um, specific kind of south African judge, like when I hear like, it is very identifiable. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but I also think that there, um, something that also, I, I find amazing is I think there's, uh, resistance like in having, having music and having a good time dressing up, I think black people all around the world, whether it's jazz, whether it's, we've just found ways to find, even in the most difficult circumstances, find joy, we will find that joy. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:59

And how does your parents instill, um, uh, all this, these learnings and these feelings and pain and anguish and trauma, not onto you, but how do you become so Intrepid and driven, how do not feel inferior and withdrawn? What were your survival skills? What do you think pushed you forward into your career trajectory?

Speaker 2: 15:16

Well, I think my parents, both of them spent their lives doing something and it wasn't just, um, you know, I think their, what I saw demonstrated in my household was that when something is wrong, you have to not just speak up, you have to do something about it. Right. So, you know, I would often have discussions with my mom, like about history, about what happened, um, to Jewish people in the second world war. Right. Um, what happened? What has been happening, you know, politics was part of everyday discussions. Yeah. And it, it wasn't in the abstract. It was. And also we knew people that were doing stuff that, you know, everybody in our lives was doing something about what they believed in. So,

Speaker 1: 15:59

So his politics really, obviously a interest from you cause even great in your career. Was it something that your parents did that had a knock on effect you and you just ran with it or, you know, do you just love politics and what it was?

Speaker 2: 16:11

Do you know what? I think that it is a bit, like if you grow up in a church household yeah. Like faith is gonna be so much at the core of what you are. Yeah. And for me, I just, I, I, as I said, like for, for my parents were very, they were people who didn't just sit aside when things were wrong and, and not just them, lots of people. I, I must stress that they weren't like alone in this yeah. People all across South Africa and, um, also in Excel who did the same thing. So I think I just, I, I saw that and I also saw they, they would, were always really hungry for news of what was happening all around the world. So I, I think the idea that you have a luxury, the luxury to disengage in things, because you don't like them. Yes. Yes. Well, there's somebody else going through that, so

Speaker 1: 17:04

Agreed. Okay.

Speaker 2: 17:05

You know, I think that's, that's what I saw demonstrated.

Speaker 1: 17:08

So you're two years old slack bank to Oxford. Um, can you remember living in South Africa or were you too young to remember that too?

Speaker 2: 17:15

Um, well we didn't move, we didn't come to Oxford straight away. Okay. We lived in London for a bit and then we moved to Oxford. Um, I don't have, I mean, obviously I was very little. Mm. Um, but I, I there's little faint memories I have from like my grandparents house. Brilliant. But my, and then we, we went back when I was, um, about seven years old. I was smuggled across the border, across the border, the south African border to see my grandparents and to spend time with my family.

Speaker 1: 17:43

How did you get across the logistic to do, did

Speaker 2: 17:46

You, so we'd gone to, we'd gone to wan with my mum. Yeah. Yep. And then, um, I was driven across the border. Wow. On somebody else's passport to see, um, my grandparents amazing. But I mean, my parents were wanted by the police. So if they would've, if they would've caught us, if they, if I'd have been caught, I would not have been able to come back in order, make my mom come back. Um, so it was quite a high risk. Okay. But, um, I think my mom felt my, well, both of my parents, my family felt, you know, that's what people did, you know, that's what we do as black people that yeah. You know, your family's important. Yeah. You do when you can. Yeah. What you can, you know?

Speaker 1: 18:25

Wow. Okay. So did you actually go back once you obviously had your, your, your formative years education in England, did you go back to study as a result of that? Could you do

Speaker 2: 18:34

That say yes. So I, um, I, the first democratic elections, 94 was when I was in the middle of my a levels. So basically I, my first years uni, I decided to go back. So the democratic change had happened. Nelson Manela was president. Right. I went back and my mom had moved back by then. So I went back and, um, uh, did my undergrad there, the, uh, Fitz university. So that's how I ended

Speaker 1: 19:02

Up. What was that like, you know, you're going back to country where you were born, but you are formative years, you know, your teenage years were in England. What was it like to adapt with a huge, uh, transition for you?

Speaker 2: 19:13

I think it was a really interesting experience. And I think that one of the things that my time living in South Africa really gave me, um, there was a real gift was to be somewhere where you are in the majority. Yeah. And to be somewhere where there are so many different, um, models is the wrong word, but you see black people doing so many different things. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> you see black people, um, trying succeeding, um, making business just all around you, people are doing different. Well here, I think if you are success that you like, it sometimes feels like we are pigeonholed into certain areas, like the images of success. Sure. And it's very different from when you go to like, you know, when you go home and all around you, there's so many different, um, models yeah. Of success. And actually, um, trying and failing is an option. Like, I, I, you know, I think that in, um, the west often as a black person, failure is just not an option. Yeah. Whereas when you are back home, you can try a think and if it doesn't work out, you try something out.

Speaker 1: 20:26

Oh, really two questions that ruminating in my head actually, first one is you could speak language anyway. Did your parents teach that in England?

Speaker 2: 20:33

I can understand. I, I could. I think if I got over my shyness, I probably could speak when I, when I do speak my family, uh, my home language is Zu. Okay. Um, when, um, I do speak, my aunt says it's decent, but other times people have laugh, laughed at me. So, um, we'll take that as you will, but, um, yeah, I can, I can understand my isn't it the matter.

Speaker 1: 20:59

And what were the, what was the, um, yeah, I, I guess some people, uh, coming out of a parttime might have been, um, still stunned or in, in their, or not do anything, or did everybody capitalize on the opportunity or was there really opportunistic? Were some people reticent or what was the general mood of, of people? Is there really let's go do it? Or, you know,

Speaker 2: 21:20

I don't know. I don't know quite how to answer that. Cause I think that, um, you know, you obviously have a podcast that you, you would like to complete. And I think, I think that the discussion around economic transformation yeah. Is quite a long one mm-hmm<affirmative> and quite a difficult one. Yeah. What I would say about that period was, um, there was an incredible excitement and this was a new country. And also like, I, I can't, um, stress enough, like for all the challenges and, um, you know, ups and downs that South Africa may experience now mm-hmm,<affirmative> prior to 94, you by law were not an equal human being. So to have that demarcation, actually by law, you have rights. And there, you can argue about whether the hopes and dreams turned out to be what people had had hoped. But at that time that was something very exciting. And that is something significant.

Speaker 1: 22:26

Brilliant. Okay. Well, let's get into your next track. And then, then we'll talk about university and your career and, uh, let's get into that good stuff.

Speaker 3: 22:34

You smile. Excuse me. Have of you baby dreams to come. Oh, baby. Nothing in you. You and a babe. I'm trying not to show the, oh, you bring I, yeah. Oh baby. I'm so yes, I do over and over you with this. What can have, what do with this? Yay. What, what with the feeling? Yes. What can I do this with feeling, feeling? Yeah. So, yeah, baby,

Speaker 1: 27:29

Talk to me at that track. So guys, listeners, you don't know what's been going on. We've been finger snapping hang clapping.

Speaker 2: 27:36

Um, so I chose that song for lots of it's funny. I was out with, uh, a good, good friend of mine, um, yesterday. And I was talking, saying that was gonna be doing this Uhhuh. And she said, I said, okay, guess, guess what songs she, she said, there must be Aretha Franklin on there. Of course. Now the reason I chose that was because it's from the sparkle album. My dad had that album in the plastic. It still had the plastic. You could not, you

Speaker 1: 27:59

Set a friend.

Speaker 2: 27:59

Of course. Yeah. You couldn't like, you know, I wasn't even at allowed to touch the needle on the thing. Touch records. Not sacred. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I remember that album. I remember the record player and I remember, um, my parents would dance to it and my mom, especially, I just remember her like dancing and sometimes you'd catch them dancing together. It reminds me also of like, um, you know, when adults just, they go around you, so you know how black people, you just end up a gathering, then it goes on all, all night, all night. So it reminds me of those kind of things. Um, it reminds me of my dad. My dad was, um, it's funny cuz he's not a musician. Yeah. But he had a lot to say about where people should sing from. Yeah. And um, it's funny cuz I, I, I was having this conversation again with somebody else the other day. He was the one that taught me, you know, when you use your voice, use your diaphragm. Right. Don't you know, his pet hate is people that like sing out of here. Right. Or if you're gonna sing, use your head voice, do it for a reason. Um, that's something that's really helpful in broadcasting. Mm-hmm<affirmative> obviously couldn't like, like vocal control and that kind of stuff. But I just remember like for him, all these soul singers, um, with these incredible big voices where, you know, he had his, my mom and dad have very interesting music tastes they're both. They both have amazing music tastes that really shaped me. My dad is more jazz and soul. Yeah. Um, although he started to like a bit of like Kenny G music, which I'm not then into, but um, my

Speaker 1: 29:35

Mom songbird a bad track.

Speaker 2: 29:37

My mom has very eclectic taste. So she's, and she's like a musical encyclopedia. So classical opera, um, all this old soul, um, she'll even tell you, she'll tell me new artists that I should look out for. I remember being, being in, um, I remember being in Oxford street with her one time by Oxford circus and then she just disappeared and she, she was, I was like, then I found her and she was dancing. Someone was, there was someone, you know, when those, those people dancing. Yeah. And someone's playing fish go deep. Yeah. Yeah. You know that, um, don't take your level. Yeah, of course. So she was there getting down, dancing to that. So my mom has very, um, very current, very classical, very, you know, VA everything. Yeah. Sevan to like rap. She'll listen to it. Brilliant. So yeah,

Speaker 1: 30:26

I love that track and I haven't heard it for ages and that's produced by Kurt Mayfield as well.

Speaker 2: 30:29

Oh yeah. My dad loved Kurt Smithfield,

Speaker 1: 30:31

So he's amazing. So, you know, he had the passionate bit, but he had the smooth, it's like he poured Leor of the track and the smooth all out. It just like nice. You know?

Speaker 2: 30:37

So it just reminds me of good times. It reminds me of joy. It reminds me of lovely. And like I said, that thing of like, um, yeah, we will make, we'll find the joy. Yeah,

Speaker 1: 30:47

Yeah,

Speaker 2: 30:47

Yeah. But my friend also said, I also, why did you say aha? And she said, um, because I also love gospel music, but I'll come to that, um, a bit later. But um, um, I find that it touches me in a place and way that no other music can. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah,

Speaker 1: 31:06

Joke, isn't it sometimes as well for me.

Speaker 2: 31:08

Yeah. And like a massage for your heart. Yeah. You know? Wow.

Speaker 1: 31:11

So yeah. So going to, to university, what was that like? You're leaving home culturally adventure, you're developing as a person. What was that like? Yeah. Obviously you're a studious and you past, you have fun, you enjoy it. What was that like going to university for that period of time and a new country?

Speaker 2: 31:27

I studied politics and international relations, which I really enjoyed mm-hmm<affirmative> and have really, really helped me now. Yep. Um, and I think it was a real blessing to study them in an African country. So you've got a different perspective, like an Afrocentric view on geopolitics, which is right.

Speaker 1: 31:49

Okay. So it wasn't just about African politics per se. It was about geopolitics, but from AF

Speaker 2: 31:53

Perspective. So international relations obviously is, you know, encompasses, um, geopolitics. Um, it's about how it's about how and how states relate to each other and who, who runs the world. Yeah. Basically. Um, but I found it really interesting and it's been very useful to have studied that from an African perspective.

Speaker 1: 32:14

Now, did you do everything in English? Was everything taught in English a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 32:17

Yeah. So, um, everything except my, uh, one African language module that I did,

Speaker 1: 32:23

Which was your native language

Speaker 2: 32:25

Was sister, which is very similar to Ciana. So.

Speaker 1: 32:29

Okay. Well look, we've got a lot of tracks to get through. Cause we've got nine tracks to get through play

Speaker 2: 32:32

As opposed to the staple,

Speaker 1: 32:35

Do your thing. Uh, let's move to the next track and see what that is.

Speaker 3: 33:20

I know he's a, is it, how will I, how I know really love know about these things, how I know of I,

Speaker 2: 34:37

Oh, do you know what I forgot to about one? Okay. So the another reason I chose that one go on another, go on. Another reason I chose the Aretha track was because there was an ENVO ENVO did a version of that, um, of, um, uh, hooked on your love. Okay. And that album, you remember, I told you that, you know, growing up in Oxford, I, I had lots of friends, but I also was a bit of an outsider, said a lot of the music I liked nobody else. Like on that album, I was obsessed with the on Vogue album. For me, they were these beautiful women. They had that old school, but they were new as well. And they were a bit hi, hiphop, like a hip hoppy as well. And I remember a friend saying to me, I knew you'd like that, cuz you like that music<laugh> was that, was that a compliment? I don't know what it was, but uh, that's it's just interesting to me that it was just quite clear that I kind of did my own thing, so yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So that, that was another reason. So it was that version and the, I didn't, I didn't know which one to choose, but that was why I chose that song

Speaker 1: 35:38

Too. No, that's cool. That's cool. That's cool. So in terms of the Whitney Houston track, now talk to me about why that, how will I know?

Speaker 2: 35:43

So I think there's a couple of artists that I think it is impossible to understand me without understanding my love for those people and why. And Whitney Houston is one of those artists. I loved her so much. Me and my friend at school were obsessed with her and my friend has a book. Um, we were about nine years old. Yeah. So we did like class projects together and stuff. My friend still got, um, one of our workbooks together. We, we were set, uh, assignment to write like a letter to someone important, whatever, whatever. So we, oh, assignment, we asked, wrote a letter to Whitney Houston saying she, you know, could she come round to T whatever, whatever that was our assignment, very creative writing. And the teacher wrote, that's not very realistic. Is it<laugh> oh my God.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 36:31

Creative writing. Very realistic. Okay.

Speaker 2: 36:33

But, um, I was, I loved her. I even remember, um, her and also Michael Jackson. Yeah. Um, I went to quite a lot of trouble recording my own kind of karaoke versions of their songs and sending them to them, taping them and sending them to them. I got the addresses from the back of their, um, uh, tapes cause I had, so what we had<laugh> so I remember we had two tape things, so I would play the, the things on one and then I would tape on the other look at, then I would sit, sing. It must have been like nine ish around that time. Yeah. Yeah. So I did this for Michael Jackson and I did this for Whitney Houston. So then letter to Michael Jackson, I was like, you know, try child prodigy to child prodigy, like, you know? Yeah, yeah.<laugh> I would like, I feel that we should meet and then<laugh>,

Speaker 1: 37:25

I feel that we should meet.

Speaker 2: 37:26

Yes. I'd love you to come over. Fine. Come on. Let's you know, I love you. And also child pro, like,

Speaker 1: 37:34

You know, you know, you're telling Michael Jackson that you are a child prodigy. Oh,

Speaker 2: 37:37

Like didn't say prodigy, but I was just like, you know, child star to like potential child stuff. Fine.<laugh> and then Whitney Houston. Nice. It was just like, I love you so much. You're so beautiful. And again, you know, just come round for tea, like we've got food, you would love it

Speaker 1: 37:53

As you did. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:54

You just would love it. And then, um, I taped these things of me singing. So I had sent them these things and I dunno, I don't even know where I got the money for the stamps, from the envelopes from, I don't know where I got that money, but, um, I also didn't know that my mom knew, um, I only found out she knew because<laugh>, I dunno how long it was like two, three weeks. She just was like, like, and I just would run to the post every day, like expecting them to write fully expecting that they'd write back fully.

Speaker 1: 38:27

Sorry. I shouldn't laugh.

Speaker 2: 38:28

Expecting that. They'd write back. And um, my mom just really tried to let me down gently and be like, you know, they get a lot of letters. I dunno. She knew what was, I don't know. She I've never asked her. I dunno why I've never asked her whether she knew that I'd made a tape or made tapes for them of my amazing things. I thought she

Speaker 1: 38:49

Has she doing, you know, quite no,

Speaker 2: 38:51

I think, but, well, she might not been in like maybe my dad was there. Like my dad, like, I don't know, like it's easy to do stuff when someone's in another bit that has, um, but um, I say that they probably didn't know, but you know, you were a child and you just think you're so slick. Um, so I dunno if she knew that I'd sent them a tape or if she just thought it was like a general letter, Hey,

Speaker 1: 39:12

What I like is the research and the due diligence of the, you know, on the back of the tape.

Speaker 2: 39:16

Yeah, yeah. To their record company, to

Speaker 1: 39:18

The record company.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Yeah. And I think that that's a real product of my, um, childhood actually, cuz my parents, as I said were fairly young, um, early twenties and I'm an only child. Yeah. And my parents and their friends, very political mm-hmm<affirmative> so they would, uh, um, always talk to me, um, like I was a, a adult, so they would ask me my opinions. They would ask me what my thoughts were about what was happening in the world. Yeah. And their friends would ask me and I think debating is, uh, uh, sport in South Africa. Yeah. Also like just grow up in the family that I did. Yeah. That's the, those, the kind of discussions that we had all the time. So I think that, um, even though I'm not always confident in every area of my life mm-hmm<affirmative> I did grow up thinking I had a voice that I was worth listening to because my parents did listen to my opinion. Yeah. Um, and my thoughts and my thoughts were entertained and engaged with, by adults. Yeah. Think Whitney Houston,

Speaker 1: 40:24

Do you think of the early burgeoning confidence and um, that you got into becoming a, a correspondence, you know, being listened to be able to articulate your views for early, early, early age? I think

Speaker 2: 40:34

It did teach me to, um, uh, articulate myself and to, um, be able to put together like, uh, an argument is the wrong word, but like, you know, build a case, build a train of thought. And I do think, I think that the media industry, like lots of creative industries is not a meritocracy. It's not sales. Yeah. Or like, you know, working in the city where it's the numbers. Um, there's a lot that can make you not confident. But I think that the one gift that my parents gave me is that, um, I do, even though there's lots of areas where like all of us, yeah. I, um, might not be yeah. Confident. I do think that what I have to say is worth listening to good. Good for you.

Speaker 1: 41:25

Good for you. So in terms of

Speaker 2: 41:27

No more or no less than other people I would say, but you know,

Speaker 1: 41:31

Yeah. No, it's good to have a voice. It's good to be expressed. I'm thinking. So what was that like, because how did you want to do that? Even, uh, in Oxford where there's a lot of people that didn't look like you, and then you went to university where everybody looked like you, if you know what I mean, there more black people there. Did that complete you in terms of your identity a bit more.

Speaker 2: 41:47

Yeah, I do. I do think that that was very, very important. I think that, um, yeah, I think that there was, there was something magic about that actually. Um, there was something magic about being, um, Just in every aspect desirable, like, so I'm not just talking about like as a, as a, you know, young universe student or whatever I'm talking about, you know, as a young, you are the future of this country, your, your, you know, your thoughts, your energy, your, your being is something that is desired, I think, and desired and wanted. And there are lots of other people like you that are the same. Do

Speaker 1: 42:38

You know what one of refer to Africa went into, I think was conduct, get the CAMBI or Kenya for the first time. And it was so amazing just being the majority. I've never felt that before in my life, it's like, everywhere you turn this back was like, oh, there's no, there, there wasn't a black area. It was just a whole content. You felt completely surrounded,

Speaker 2: 42:53

Very validating,

Speaker 1: 42:54

Very validating. And one thing I noticed, and it's a small thing in life, I was say in the hotel first place, you know, you go into, then you get the little, um, uh, toothpaste and bits involved. There was an Afro in there.

Speaker 2: 43:06

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:07

Small. But that was an Afro in that was like, but,

Speaker 2: 43:09

But it's a big

Speaker 1: 43:10

Thing, right? That is a big thing. Like there was, you know, majority was Afro, not a Caucasian comb, but there's an Afro, an Afro. And so I just felt, it seemed really minor. But to me, that made me feel like really like, okay, I'm in a place where I'm not, not, not I'm in the majority

Speaker 2: 43:24

You're tolerated. Yes. You wanted your

Speaker 1: 43:28

Accepted

Speaker 2: 43:29

And your looks being are the blueprint.

Speaker 1: 43:34

Yes.

Speaker 2: 43:35

Rather than the thing we have to adjust for. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 43:38

Yeah. But I, it took me a while to adjust for that. It took me a while just to get around that, you know, I didn't have took me about, I dunno, a couple days, but it was like, wow. You know? Yeah. So you've done a university. You, you let's fast forward to you being a correspondent. Okay. This is really, really exciting. Um, what was that like? What was your first, when you got to BBC 2003, were you wowed? Was it like, were you, was it quite nervous? Cause it's not. Was there a lot of pressure on you because you might have been quite, you know, one of the very few black female correspondent there.

Speaker 2: 44:07

Oh. But I didn't start as a correspondent. I started working reception<laugh> yeah. I went, started working in reception in the political units. Um, and basically I I'm trying to like shrink this story down cause quite long and boring, but basically I did a postgrad in broadcast journalism. And one of the things that you are kind of expected to do to get into media is to work for a few years, right. With very little or no money. I had no family here. All my family were in South Africa. Right. I had no one to live with, you know, I had bills to pay. So I went into like sales for two years. Yeah. It was, it was hell it was, I, I like, I hated it so much. And for me idea of like, um, it was just the wrong fit for me. Now, those skills that I learned in sales have been incredibly useful in my job now mm-hmm<affirmative> actually, but at the time, the idea of not doing what my heart wanted to do was really painful. Um, so I'd been applying, trying to get in, trying to get in. Didn't like, you know, I'd never successful getting on any kind of traineeship schemes or anything like that. Yep. So how I got that job on reception, I'd applied for a job and did not get it<laugh>. And the man said to me, um, well we quite often have, um, uh, space for freelancers here just to come and do bits and bubble. So I mean, it was an entry level job. Yeah. Yep. Um, so if you're interested, um, let me know. And I just basically was so desperate. I remember I'd left my sales job at no money. Mm-hmm<affirmative> it was just like it was do or die make or break. Yeah. And, um, I just phoned him every day and then he said, come in, but that guy, Tim Finch, and I will give him a shout out because yeah, Tim was a white guy and he said that, so where he worked was, um, that bit of the BBC's opposite parliament, he said he was aware that basically every, this, this entry level job yeah. Was kind of a gateway to so many other opportunities. Cause once you have a nobody really, and answer the email that comes from a Gmail account, right. But once you have a BBC address, it makes it so much easier to put yourself in front of people. And everybody that had ever got that job was the niece or nephew of somebody that was already in the newsroom. So there's

Speaker 1: 46:26

A lot of nepotism going on

Speaker 2: 46:27

There, not nepotism, but just, we give opportunities to people like us. Right. And he very clear that he wanted to give opportunities to people, not like him. And he was very deliberate about that and intentional about it. Impressive. And I think there was an onus on us to chase that opportunity. But I mean, he said, look, you are only here like a couple of shifts a week. So the rest of the time, I would advise you to use that BBC email address, send that your, um, CV get as many shifts in other places. Wow. As you possibly can. So I've, um, had quite a long and winding road through, um, the BBC and, and it's not been a linear career. Yeah. And I don't know that there's very many people that just arrive day one and their, you did

Speaker 1: 47:18

A best, was it CNN? Or

Speaker 2: 47:20

I left the PBC for a while and I went and did freelance. And when I was freelancing, one of the people I did some freelance work for was, you know, I did a few pieces for CNN. Yep. But, um, I, I spent maybe sort of six years the BBC left and then came back. Um, and that again was really helpful in that I got an opportunity to do, if I hadn't done that I would never have done for our news. Right. Um, and I love foreign news. I love why safe, foreign, but I'm, I, I love that's what it's called here. Yes. But I love news about, um, places in the world that, um, have people that, you know, look like me in the majority or places, you know, I spent the last, last year I spent in America, um, that's somewhere that's very different. It's not like, you know, part of the global south. Yeah. But, um, um, again, for other reasons, it's really, really fascinating. I think the world is big and I'm very, that's what excites me. Like how other people live their experiences and all that jazz. Well, we'll

Speaker 1: 48:28

Play the next track. We need to get back to your exploits in America recently. Really, really interesting.

Speaker 3: 48:54

We love the went through and we made it through the storm. I really want you to, I really put someone, I, I met you. I just knew that you would my heart until you told me how on you said I'm another one. So all of the things that you made and now I dreams love, I that's the baby. I thought you were the

Speaker 4: 50:33

Look up in.

Speaker 5: 50:35

Nope. Miss Mary. Ain't a no with the, so what's it gonna be the real one? The fake one. The take one off my up

Speaker 4: 50:50

Pump and daddy. Yo

Speaker 2: 50:51

Yo bring the buzz in.<laugh>

Speaker 1: 50:54

When I first heard, when I first heard Biggie's voice, we're laughing here. We're having a good old dancer, which is brilliant. When I first heard Biggie's voice and he started a rapper, he was like, pull my head off. Who is this guy is

Speaker 2: 51:06

Really, oh, I thought you were like in a good way, in a good

Speaker 1: 51:09

Way. I was like, it blew my mind. I like, you know,

Speaker 2: 51:12

That that ready to die. Album is still one of my favorite albums of bald term. I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:17

Yeah. Watch this song, especially for you then, while we're talking about America.

Speaker 2: 51:20

Well, it's, it's not so well, the song is about an, is an era. So that, that song is an era of my life. It really, really me of university actually like it was before I went to university, it was a school, but Mary, like, I don't, again, Mary's the other artist where you cannot, if you don't know my love, Mary J like, if you don't know what this, what this woman means to me. Yeah. You, you don't fully know me. Um, and I chose that song because it reminded me of an era and, uh, biggie and you know, the fact, oh, just everything about it is a vibe and it reminds what it led on to. But actually I was torn because I wanted to use, um, to choose, uh, you all I need to get by, but the, the, the, the one that was on Mets album, not the, the, the more Grimmy version. Yep. Yep. Um, but yeah, I love Mary and, um, this, that era of R and B hiphop soul. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:22

And I, I like the way she conducted herself in the way that cuz she was in the, she was in hiphop soul as well. That's quite male dominating that still married to hold her role and get onto tracks and sing on, on rap songs, but also have features on there, but not feel SOPed by the hyper masculinity. That rap can be sometimes as

Speaker 2: 52:37

Well. Yeah, exactly. So I love Mary this. I couldn't do the songs of my life about Mary and that is, that's just a era, whole era for me.

Speaker 1: 52:46

Well, speaking of that in America is a S segue into this. I just wanna talk about you being a correspondent for America. And one of the things I wanted to talk about about that is, you know, you were in, in one of the capital buildings while all the excitement was going on and were you actually locked in at that point?

Speaker 2: 53:02

Yeah, that was an interesting day.

Speaker 1: 53:05

Um, so pizza, I believe you got to leave it there, please. Lack of subscribe on your chosen platform. Want to check out part two of this interview in the meantime, please stay. Well, my name is Mr. Pierre, and you've been listening to 45, 40 fives,

Speaker 6: 53:26

5, 5, 5, 5.

Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show

Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show - Season 1 Ep 3 with Lebo Diseko (Part 1)

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