Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Show - Season 2 Ep 3 with Zak Polanski
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Join me, along with my special guest, Zak Polanski, the Deputy Leader of the Green Party, as we have a heart-to-heart conversation; we unlock the stories behind Zak's surname changes, our shared nightclub experiences, and the intriguing intersections of identity and politics.
But that's not all. We also delve into the pressing issues of climate crisis, equality, and identity. Uncover the ties between green issues, racism, and economic justice, and understand the disproportionate impact of the climate crisis on communities of colour and working-class communities. From discussing the political undertones in rap music to exploring the challenges of owning a space in a society yet to achieve true equality, this conversation promises to be a riveting journey of insight and discovery.
Buckle up for an episode that promises a rollercoaster ride of topics, from understanding the intricacies of your identity to a deep dive into the world of music, theatre, climate crisis and much more. We challenge you to question the status quo, provoke thought, and inspire change. Join me on this exciting journey that promises to be an insightful, entertaining and thought-provoking experience.
Zak's Choice Cuts
Let the Groove Get In - Justin Timberlake
What's Going On? - Marvin Gaye
Woman - Little Simz
Cruel Intentions -JMSN
If You Want To Sing Out, Sing Out - Cat Stevens
Literature/Books
Pleasure Activism - Adrienne Maree Brown (Author)
Hosts: Mista Pierre
Producer: Mista Pierre
Mista Pierre's Fortified 45s Website
Mista Pierre's Instagram
Mum, can I go trick or treat? This is Dina Oss, boys study or schoolbook.
Speaker 2:The Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine. Yes, yes, welcome everybody to the Halloween episode of 4545. My name's Mr Pierre. How you doing? It's grim here in London. The skies are bruised, the leaves are starting to turn and sadly, I have to demote my summer hot pants to the rear of the wardrobe. The Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine. You think I'm joking, don't you? The Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine. On the flip, though, I could bring out the kinky knitwear and the leather and coutrement man, I still make adjustments as the winter night's drawing Do you get me. Just keep it real. Don't forget to like and subscribe. If you're loving the show, tell our friends, spread the word. Let's be honest, you and I are the only freaks out there. The Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine. The Seastone Adidine, the Seastone Adidine. Okay, enough of the slackness, let's get on to the show.
Speaker 2:So in late summer I had a good old chin wag with the deputy leader of the Green Party, mr Zak Polanski. It was my first interview with a politician. It was all love, and I hope you guys pick up some nuggets too, because I learnt so much. So back al-ap. We discuss identity, climate, crisis, theatre, music and all things good Again, my name's Mr Pierre. Welcome to my world of 45s, 45s, 45s. My guest today. Who is he? He's the Green Party deputy leader, I believe Zak Polanski. Is that you Right?
Speaker 3:it's me.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, how are you man?
Speaker 3:Good Good to have you back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you have me back. Look, he's taken over my show already. Now how you been, man, it's been a while.
Speaker 3:It's been a long while. When did we last see each other? Why don't you?
Speaker 2:tell everybody how we know each other. Can you remember?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I can remember Cheeky Smell it. So, yes, I might be wrong, it was from working in nightclubs where I started doing. I was a promo boy, so I used to stand in the streets of Soho giving out leaflets and you were DJing and doing all the tunes. And then eventually I got promoted and I was important enough to be able to come and take your drinks order.
Speaker 2:No, that was good man.
Speaker 3:You're a great guy man. You were one of the nicer DJs or other DJs that would look at me and be like, why are you coming from the drinks order? But you were always chilled about it.
Speaker 2:No man, you're a nice guy. You had good energy about it as well and enjoyed doing that. I remember telling you what your name was, and I was interested in. Your name was Zach and the Polanski bit. Before we get into that, actually, am I right? You changed your name to Zach Polanski because that was originally a Polish Jewish name back in the day and you were born Stephen Paulden.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very close. In fact, it wasn't even just a Jewish name, it was my family's Jewish name.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:I always thought that it changed. You told me not to be too political.
Speaker 2:No, no rocket.
Speaker 3:Rocket A political question, go on, go on. But I always thought they changed it to a Veybinatsis. So my family were in Ukraine and then in Poland. Wow, but it turned out it was much deeper than that. My family arrived in the UK and there was so much antisemitism and racism going on in the UK, they changed it in the UK, and so I think it's always a good example when we talk about migrants, now that we often go. We used to be this generous, inclusive country, but it's important to remember that not only did we colonise them with an empire, we also did terrible things to lots of different people around the world and, yeah, we shouldn't romanticise that Wow.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. That's the kind of politics I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:That's good, that's good.
Speaker 2:So I mean, in terms of post-war migration and even prior to that, some of my family and other family members will change their surname to be more English, so they will be stigmatised with a particular name or area. And even so, jamaican families would change their name to Barrington something, so it was obviously their slave master's name. But it would make them transferable transportable, you know, in different areas, on paper at least so they can get into places or get education or get the things they need to live, really. So it's quite interesting around that.
Speaker 3:That's really interesting. Where's your surname from, do you know?
Speaker 2:So Ned originally came from Nederman, which is a Dutch, germanic name, but my parents well my dad's side are from Franske-Gianna-Gaena and they've got Dutch, portuguese, english, brazilian, and then the other side of it is Buenos Aires. All mixture of that and it comes from so many different changes, invasions by the Dutch, by the English. I had the Amerindians there originally, so it's a whole different mix of stuff like that. So my surname is Nederman originally. So yeah, I thought it was Ned, like from Wales, but actually Nederman, and they changed it to reduce it to Ned to make it a bit more transferable, because then it had the Germanic side which actually labelled them in a certain way. So I think the Ned was changed to make it more.
Speaker 3:And did you give it a DJ Ned, if I remember, or was it DJ Pierre? Mr Pierre always DJed.
Speaker 2:Ned, non-educated delinquent? I don't think so. Classy me, I always Mr Pierre. I mean I've had various guys historically, but I think Mr Pierre worked for me because I tried to think I was thinking in terms of reinvention, how to bring more love and more maturity and a gentlemanly attitude towards DJing and people and how we engage.
Speaker 3:And now, when you've been at Coenation, because I started working there, I think you were always there.
Speaker 2:as far as yeah, I haven't been there since. I haven't been there as long as I think I was DJing since 2003, 2004. I can't remember when you were there.
Speaker 3:Probably like 2008,. I'd say yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could use a bit of Brixton. Before then, before then, it was at the gardening club, which is an old club, which is now the Apple Store in Charing Cross, in Not Charing Cross, where is it? Ah, covent Garden, there we go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, makes sense I mean it's impossible to be political again and not be pissed off. I mean I've seen night clubs that close down, not just in Handao.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:Particularly LGBT spaces as well, but generally any kind of independent grassroots music venue.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. So I used to be a guest home in its own way. I used to be in a lot of gay places to spin up there, because it was cheap you can go there. And then that became popular, you know, and then more expensive to run clubs and they all closed down. But also, you know, things like apps came out and then people I'm just saying everyone was ungrinding Well basically yeah, etc, etc.
Speaker 2:So apps came out and then people need to convene to meet people. It was a bit more. It's a bit easier. Yeah, there can be whatever they like behind the keyboards.
Speaker 3:Yeah, makes sense, but it's sad, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 3:I'd say it's sad. Maybe people will do what they want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's important that you have spaces that people can get together and dance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So what about your Jewish side? Do you embrace that side? Is there any Judaism or any? Do you speak Hebrew or anything like that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I totally embrace it. So until I was 13, I actually went to a pretty religious school like a Jewish school, so I'd wear a Yammelki the little hat, is it? I had a bar mitzvah kind of followed every kind of Jewish tradition you could want, and then my parents got divorced and then this is like a very old traditional Jewish story but everyone suddenly decided, oh, we weren't going to be following Jewish traditions anymore because everyone was too involved with the divorce and I didn't get involved in my Judaism until about 10 years ago I started to get more and more involved as an adult.
Speaker 3:And that's partly to do with green politics. There's so much relationship between religion and social justice and that's not always true and sometimes religions can be horrible places of social injustice. But I think there are some. Really, it doesn't matter what religion you are. If you're essential kind of values be kind to people, be compassionate, protect people, protect the planet, Look for equality then I think they're probably doing good things. How about you? Are you religious?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:Okay, fair enough. You probably know Ricky Beedle Blair, who's one of my friends.
Speaker 2:I do so, him and I go back. I'm known as the Salis 20. 20, 20, 22. So Noel Clark and myself, me, him, and we could really really work at a sports centre Ice Bear Lifeguards. So it was Noel Clark. And then Ricky Biel was coming in his hot pants. I walked right across the swimming pool Right, he could have gone over the bridge, right, where he can't sit. But Noel, he would walk right across the swimming pool in his hot pants and do this step class. He's brilliant.
Speaker 3:And Freddie, when he doesn't know, Ricky, he's like a force of nature, particularly in like the black community in the. Mlgt kind of arts scene. B-runs are the third company called Team Angelica.
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's not the point of the story, but the story is.
Speaker 3:He's just a good friend of mine and he often talks about both in his work and personally, like the importance of storytelling, and I've spoken to him before about religion and you know, is it not just a big bunch of stories about how you live your life? And should we trust that? And one answer he once gave me that sticks with me is depends how much you trust the storyteller. And I just, yeah, I always think about like who do we trust to tell other stories?
Speaker 2:and what's the value of those stories?
Speaker 3:It just depends on your relationship with the storyteller.
Speaker 2:I like that. Yeah, ricky's full of those. Yeah, he is. So, in terms of your parents too many outfits, too many outfits. You know we're actually into getting them on a show. Ricky, if you're listening, can you speak to him more from the beginning? Can you get into the?
Speaker 3:show. We should have done it together, that would have been fun.
Speaker 2:No, I can't, I know I can't do both of you.
Speaker 3:You don't do two sums or three sums. It's a family show Number one.
Speaker 2:Number two? No, it's, I didn't answer the question Number three. No, not both of you. You got too much energy. You got no, no.
Speaker 3:Also, we would not agree on music choices, for a start. Exactly I don't want to give any spoilers, but I've got one artist on here. He does not approve of it.
Speaker 2:Really. We'll get into that in a second, but let's talk about your parents, both of them from the Ukraine originally, and it's great grandparents.
Speaker 3:but actually it's really confusing. So, although my surname's Polanski, I then later found out they might have been Polanski, but by then I changed my surname once. I was like I'm not going to keep changing my surname, I'm on the run from something. But it's quite common against Jewish identities and I imagine also in any diaspora that because we're fleeing oppressors, very often on the paperwork it's confused. What it is, it's not clear, and so it's not entirely clear where my family are from. You know, the BBC do that show. Who do you think?
Speaker 3:you are Probably need to do that at some point to work out where I come from.
Speaker 2:The way you look, you could be from lots of parts of the world really so it's interesting.
Speaker 3:So I don't fly for green reasons, which. I won't go into massively on a podcast. It's not particularly fun, but before, when I used to fly, my skin used to be much darker and it's interesting. People always assumed that one of my parents is black and it's not true. It's just Jewish and Semitic. But essentially you know we're all from Africa If we go back to the foreigners.
Speaker 3:I think it's interesting, I don't, you know, it's a. It used to be really bothered by the question where do you come from? Because there was always that implication that you're not from London, you're not from here. And again, a good friend of mine, stephen Hu, who's a British Chinese actor, whenever anyone says where are you from, he says Croydon. And when they say where are? You from. He goes East Croydon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do. I peck at them. They're like oh, you speak well, okay, that's when I start ripping into them.
Speaker 3:And I think it's totally legitimate for people to be like irritate with people asking those questions. I've started to enjoy them more, though, as I've got older. Yeah you just think you know. I know what they're asking me and I'm happy to talk about my heritage at the same time. No one should have to answer for themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is a tricky part, but I think people are genuinely interested and they may have a similar background as well. And you know, changing your name I mean Polanski that all start a conversation. You actually change your name, so you actually got an interesting background behind that and you've changed your name to actually focus in on that as well. What's your view on politics and religion as well, the derivatives of Judaism, do you think it is? Some people say you're African, some people say Israeli. What would you say? That is Because I think there's some disparity between those conversations.
Speaker 3:It's a really good question. I'm not informed enough to answer it, to be honest, though in terms of like it's important, but it's just interesting.
Speaker 3:No, so one thing I've always felt and spoken again to Ricky about this a lot is like there's lots of places in history where the Jewish community and the black community have stuck together and know what it's like to be othered, and I remember like I used to say that a lot and I still believe it. And then someone challenged me at one point and talked about where Jewish families own slaves, for instance, and like I didn't know about that whole history, particularly within the Jewish community. I think all of these questions about history and religion are incredibly complicated because, you're literally talking over millennia of where people have been at.
Speaker 3:But I think the fundamental point and I talk about this a lot with the trans community, with what's going on within the LGBT community is when they come for one of us, they come for all of us. And if you're, like any part of a minority or a oppressed person, I think it's really important that you show compassion and empathy towards that other oppressed person, because ultimately, when the Nazis returned which is a pretty devastating phrase, but we see it across European politics and world politics- of fascism is back on the rise.
Speaker 3:They're not going to worry about what particular shade of skin someone is or what derivative of religion they came from. Ultimately, if you're not white in area and whatever the kind of majority view is in that point, then you are under attack, and I think it's vital that we all stick together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice. Well, let's get some into some funky beats.
Speaker 3:See see.
Speaker 2:Well, go on and see what tune you've come up with the first place. There are very interesting selections, but let's get into the first one. Okay, let's do it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, yeah, hey, there. Come on, shake Like you know. You got some proof. There's a mama boo Like the grooves taking over you. Make no mistake, you're in the place to feed by far. So let's get crazy Like we'd never foresee tomorrow.
Speaker 5:Come on, are you comfortable Right there, right there. Let the groove get in there, there, right there. Are you comfortable Right there, right there. Let the groove get in there there, right there. Are you comfortable Right there, right there, there, there, right there. Get it. You. Come on, shake Like you know. You got none of those. Make it move Girl. You know what we came to do. Make no mistake, you're in the place to feed by far. So let's get crazy Like we'd never foresee tomorrow. Come on, are you comfortable, right there, right there. Let the groove get in there there, right there. Are you comfortable Right there, right there, there there, right there. Are you comfortable Right there, right there, let the groove get in there there, right there. There's been a drilled. Get something if you need something to take my hands. So that's the groove getting by Justin Timberlake.
Speaker 2:That's roughly, yeah, man, it goes about seven minutes and stuff like that, but it's a good vibe Circa 2013, roughly about. Talk to me about that tune, because that's like a heavy bass going in there. I didn't know. You'd know about them tunes, mate. What's going on?
Speaker 3:It's one of my favorite tunes of all time, including Like I Love you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah of course.
Speaker 4:Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3:I just say I've got two amazing memories of that song. One is going to Justin's concert, probably around about that time, and I think they do this all the time now in concerts. So this is the first time I've ever seen it.
Speaker 3:The whole stage that he was on suddenly lifted above the audience went over the audience's head and back down and that's partly why that song so long it covered like that whole movement and just the vibe of the dancers and the beat and it all happening was amazing. And the second one was always 40, just a few months ago. Nice, correct you made it, thank you. Having a party and just that song coming on and just that feeling of like having friends around you and just hanging all that song.
Speaker 2:Hold on, hold on. You had a party and you were like DJ.
Speaker 3:We hadn't spoken for a couple of years. But you're right, I've been called out.
Speaker 2:No, that's alright.
Speaker 3:But he's the artist that Ricky has the problem with. I mean, I shouldn't represent Ricky's view without him being here.
Speaker 2:but no, I'll just speak it.
Speaker 3:For what he did to Janet Jackson and he always says that. You know Janet Jackson apologized. She got canceled for a few years because of the Super Bowl Boop reveal and Justin kind of just threw under the bus and carried on and carried on making records and also.
Speaker 2:What did he actually do? Sorry, just for clarity.
Speaker 3:I think he grabbed her. He was meant to rip something off her costume. It was a wardrobe malfunction because the whole costume came apart, and there's always conspiracies that they absolutely plan to do that.
Speaker 4:It was all preplanned.
Speaker 3:There were other conspiracies that Justin did it to her on purpose and she wasn't consenting.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something about the game and Janet Jackson can't do no wrong. You're not going to win that conversation. It is what it is.
Speaker 3:There's another like second criticism that's often against Justin Timberlake, which is that he utilizes or appropriates black musicians for himself and has not given credit to them, and I would challenge that when you look at the people who are working with him. Pharrell. Timberlake constantly giving them props and sharing his platform with them. I think you have artists like Beyonce who do that to the nth degree, who are incredibly generous and share and give that space.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I think it's a fair criticism. He doesn't do that as much.
Speaker 2:I might get beaten up. I'll tell you, madonna did that to a certain degree. Madonna, I'm not a Madonna fan. Yeah, I think she might have done a bit of that, but I'm a Justin Timberlake fan.
Speaker 3:As in you're saying Madonna's done some appropriating without sharing. Yeah, I agree with that entirely and you need Even my first single Holiday.
Speaker 2:I think that was my first single, so that's something called A Love Is Holiday by Change.
Speaker 3:I love JT. Jt can do that. I've always like from Anson. I loved him, maybe flesh through his music and more for him. But as he's got, did you?
Speaker 2:grow up in Anson. I want to know about your childhood bit. So you grew up in Salford, so you're Mancunian-esque, basically right, but your accent's kind of soft now. Have you slushed it up a bit? Have you, like, smoothed it out now?
Speaker 3:I went to drama school when I was like 16 and they weren't having any of that kind of Mancunian north and I went and lived in America.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to get to Georgia.
Speaker 3:My accent was a bit deep south. Seriously, yeah, absolutely. Some people still think I'm American now, so it's just an interesting yeah.
Speaker 2:yeah, we're at Lanter because I love.
Speaker 3:Atlanta. I was in Atlanta, well, athens, so an hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I stayed in like Buckhead, a bit slush.
Speaker 3:I was in Buckhead do you know what I mean Buckhead's nice, I mean the whole of.
Speaker 2:Atlanta is amazing. I love the food, the people, it's really south and stuff like that. So did you get any college days effectively? You went to. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:I mean I pretty much I would say, grew up in. Atlanta I was only there relatively short period like how I'd look at the world. There's always a moment in everyone's life when they grew up and the time was quite late. But I grew up, and I grew up in Atlanta.
Speaker 2:And you speak Spanish, right? I'm not saying it.
Speaker 3:Very, very badly, but Italian is a little bit better.
Speaker 2:Italian, Spanish, a bit of Hebrew.
Speaker 3:A little bit of Hebrew, but again pretty bad. I feel like you're trying to make me sound like some multilingualist here.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not going to say that. I'm giving you a proper smile. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:I lived in Italy for a little while working as an accent, so my Italian got better.
Speaker 2:So you're working as an actor speaking Italian in oh God no Speaking English. Right, okay.
Speaker 3:But like the people I was with were all spoke Italian, so it was a bit like I was either going to be silent for six months and not talk to anyone. Or you're going to very quickly have to learn some phrases.
Speaker 2:Yes, I talked to him. Let's give a little bit of lineage so I'm not going to use timelines here. Salford went to grammar school.
Speaker 3:I feel like this is a job interview where they're like talk to me about this gap in your CV. Yeah, exactly, oh, not everything. Yeah, no.
Speaker 2:So Salford did that. And then what was Salford like growing up? First?
Speaker 3:So Salford is very different to how it is now. It's pretty bleak and grim, and I go back to Manchester now and I love it, but I think it's like grass is always greener thing when I was there.
Speaker 4:I could not wait to get out.
Speaker 3:And then I lived in North Manchester for a long time, in Berry Whitefield specifically, and then in South Manchester, a place called Stockport. Of course we're not Stockport, yeah, of course, but like I was working in a shop in Withinshore, which is where the Royal Family was set, and so it was always quite characterful and there was always a lot going on, did you?
Speaker 2:wait to you, or maybe not? Do you wait till you had left home for you out?
Speaker 3:I got outed actually about 14.
Speaker 2:Damn, that's early o'clock.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was in a club in Manchester. Popstars no, not Popstars, poptastic.
Speaker 4:Of course.
Speaker 3:Tuesday night and Snogging the Boy and someone saw me and then told the whole school and then but what were they doing in there though? Yeah, yeah, no, quite right, it's. Things have changed so quick, Like when I think about queer nation in the years we were working there. The first couple of years I was working there, you couldn't have a photographer in there because people were worried about having a photograph taken. And now, all over Instagram and Facebook, I see these professional photos and that kind of that is beautiful that I've changed quickly.
Speaker 3:I say it's beautiful. I wonder if it's beautiful if you're in those clubs and you don't want to be out there, then there's probably still issues there. But the fact that not every single person in that club is worried about being in a photograph taken is a huge change that's happened in our lifetimes.
Speaker 2:Wow, so 14 years to deal with that? That's a lot, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it didn't feel like a lot because I didn't really have many friends at school and they were different. I felt very othered anyway generally, and so I think it. If anything, I think it just made me more interesting at school for a couple of years. Like it definitely got bullied for it, but at least like there was a reason for me to be weird which up until that point I was just kind of the weirdo kid with no friends.
Speaker 2:So you actually carved the character out of it for yourself, would you say yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3:And it wasn't until I kind of left school and then went to a college where suddenly I met other queer kids. So probably wouldn't have said queer back then. Yeah yeah. When it was said LGBT gay kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I do have a trouble with that word queer.
Speaker 3:Oh, wow, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Because when I grew up, that was like pejorative, it was like queer you're a queer person and yeah, so I just with the name, not to say really the identity. But I do have difficulty in what queer means versus.
Speaker 3:How old are you? Am I allowed to ask?
Speaker 2:Older than you, young man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, I'm of that generation.
Speaker 3:But I remember queer being pejorative as well. I guess, maybe you would have been more of a higher bit in section 28. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So that's that. There you go. There's my little time window there. Do the math from there. So yeah, so then school, grammar school, and you left, went straight to drama school. Was that something you want to pursue? Do you want to be an actor initially?
Speaker 3:I didn't go straight to drama school. I spent a few years working at PGL, which is like a kids adventure company.
Speaker 2:Right excellent.
Speaker 3:So that's like abscaling canoeing and hacking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man.
Speaker 3:Those were like some of the best years of my life.
Speaker 2:Excellent. I did Camp America for one year. It's great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very similar vibe and yeah, it's interesting actually because this, the place I was working, was in Shrewsbury, in like a random campsite, and I just remember I used to get these kids from London and everyone was terrified of the kids from London, and that's all that point. I'd never been to London. I didn't know anyone from London, but I would just notice the difference between the 11 year olds that I was looking at, looking after, if they were from London.
Speaker 3:It would be like they would answer back. They'd be so worldly wise that like always have like things for you to think like. Anyway, everyone was always terrified about the kids from London.
Speaker 2:You know what? It's great. It's sort of an interruption there. I was in upstate New York and I had all the hip hop tunes and stuff and stuff and I was like quite a mouthy as you can imagine, I'm not a mouthy at all these days.
Speaker 2:And it was the same sort of thing. They were like English accent mouthy. They were interesting to engage, but do you think it was different? Because you had a normal accent. So they thought they had a more of a not affinity, but they knew who you were. So it became difficult.
Speaker 3:I think there was something about that. And then also, to be honest, just like I was really interested in the tunes that are listening to you and what London was like and you know, the age gap then was probably 19 and these were like 11 to 15 year olds Not a huge age gap, of course, but age gap between a 15 year old and 19 year old. But it was small enough. I think that at that time I was interested enough to be like tell me about your life.
Speaker 3:And that's when I think London was first on my radar, whereas, like, oh, there's this really exciting place where all this is going on. And I'm living in a field with the cows and horses. I love cows and horses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah exactly. You just come back from camp and we're just going to talk about that in a minute, but in terms of your music and you want to know what tunes they were what's your relationship with music? I know you just come back from a festival. Talk to me about your relationship with music. And even now you came back from a festival, a vegan festival. Yeah, Talk to me about that. Let's talk about the vegan festival first.
Speaker 3:Well, I can say first of all, I'm talking to a DJ, so I'm aware of like not overreacting this, but music is literally one of the most important things in my life, that's why you're here, man. My boyfriend like it's interesting Something he's experienced is I didn't realise how much I listened to music until I met someone who loves music, but not as much as I do, and I've realised that. You know, if I wake up at 7.30, at 7.31, there is music.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:If we're going to brush our teeth, we cannot brush our teeth without a tune on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, if we're preparing dinner.
Speaker 3:you're not going to prepare dinner without music. Of course. Bedtime is time to wind down with some music and then, you know, sometimes you'll tell me off because I've pumped some jam on and I'm like that is not like getting ready for bed music. I don't know if I can promote radio stations on the podcast but NTS has like changed my life.
Speaker 3:So, nts being a digital radio station that's on 24 seven, and what I love about it is that it's international, so DJs from a different one hour. You can have an hour in Shanghai, then an hour in London, then an hour in Berlin, and it just keeps going round. And also some of the hours are random. So sometimes I'll put on, it'll be like helicopter music for an hour, so it's just the sound of a helicopter, the rotors, and then they'll do another hour, which is you know an hour of Erica.
Speaker 3:Badoe and it's something that's, you know. I was going to say commercial, not necessarily commercial. I'm a bit more like oh, I know, I know what this is, I just love that diversity of variety of like.
Speaker 4:You never quite know what you're going to get when you put NTS on.
Speaker 3:So tell me what a vegan festival is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I went to vegan camp out which is a vegan festival.
Speaker 3:It is what it says on the tin, so all the performers are vegan, so they had. You've got people like Sam Ryder Sam and Amstel Ramnash Ranganathan, the comedian Mobius Loop, who were like I'd say a folksy kind of punk band. Jme Maccabee, the reggae artist, he's amazing. He's got such a good tune where he just names vegetables Kala lo.
Speaker 4:Kala lo, kala ho, kala lo. Some call it Amaranth. To Kala lo, kala ho, kala lo. Part of the Amaranth crew, my favorite greens is this. It's the first one I mentioned on the what me eats list. Similar to spinach In Maccabee house, it's a staple dish. If Kale is the queen of the greens and Kala lo's a king, yeah, man, serious thing. Definitely best when fresh. If you can't get the fresh, might have to be the tin. Got enough iron? I think we're a lion. You can be a vegan and strong like a lion. Potassium, arso, calcium Just talking about it made me want some. Yum yum. Steam it. So many uses right Like kill. You know your green juices and the seed? Amaranth is the name. Just like quinoa, use it like a grain. Vitamins A's and the C's and the K's help out your body in different ways. This is Maccabee. Want me eat Wednesdays? Fiddly Kala lo. We give thanks and praise El tis weld Kala lo, amazing.
Speaker 3:Love it, and then you also have kind of talks and activism where people get together and then all the food on the site is vegan, so it's just a really really good time. Yeah, and something I really love about it actually that was really noticeable is that it's just noticeable, is that, you know, I'm Jewish, my boyfriend's Indian, british. Yeah, we don't see a lot of diversity within those groups, but actually each year we've gone, it's getting better.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:Like you're seeing more diversity in there. Having said all of that, you know I've got enough black friends to know that camping isn't always their vibe.
Speaker 5:They're just like don't care about what you just said. What is that about?
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, okay, first of all, right, first of all, I'm going to say it's a black thing.
Speaker 3:It's like people who camp.
Speaker 2:So it's like okay, I'll see it for myself. I want to generalize. Okay, I spent enough money looking after myself. Why would I not have water and running water facilities? Why would I spend my holidays having less facilities than I otherwise would? Sometimes we have too much advantage that we have to downgrade to get a bit of excitement. Do you know what I mean? No man Ear wigs and no, I'm putting up your own accommodation.
Speaker 3:It's just nice being on the land and like it's not like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can visit the land and they go back.
Speaker 4:Do you have a vegan tent.
Speaker 2:Do you have a vegan tent?
Speaker 3:Do you know what? Probably not. Well, I don't know what would go in a tent that wouldn't be vegan, so actually I'll take that back.
Speaker 2:Is your tent made of vegan material, if you know what I mean, yeah, it's not my tent, so I didn't check that I know. I've just been controversial.
Speaker 3:Sorry, the vegan police will be going up and down.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:But you know it's all about. You know I'm not going to give a big speech about veganism because you'll lose listeners and droves. It's not about people being vegan or not vegan. I think it's about, like people, reducing the amount that they are destroying the planet or treating animals cruelly or murdering animals. I think, it is important that we speak out.
Speaker 2:Well, speaking of listeners, we've got a listener called Jim Fielder. Thank you for the question. He said to ask a question are climate doomers now replacing climate deniers?
Speaker 3:Hold on. I thought I was not coming on for a political interview and here you are winging out people.
Speaker 2:Well, do you know what I mean? It's just that you don't go into a diet tribe like so they feel like I'm on Paxman again.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, I must feel good interview.
Speaker 2:I feel good actually. No, no, no, just a couple of questions like that. Don't chill, chill, that's all right.
Speaker 3:Well, I don't believe in the climate doomer because ultimately, you know things are bad and like we're seeing, you know most of Europe, southern Europe, is on fire.
Speaker 3:I said this recently a meeting I was at. I talked about the Horn of Africa being an inhabitant, and then someone in the audience who is literally from that part of the world put the hand up and said when you said that, it really spoke to me, because you're talking about my home and I've seen that crops are dying, I've seen that people are having to move and we've seen this country's attitude towards refugees. Already we're going to see more and more climate refugees in our lifetime because places will not be inhabitable anymore and people are going to come across. So you know I joke about not being political, but I think it's important to offer hope and vision and I try and talk as much as possible about the positive things which are about sawing out the gender equality pay gap, the ethnicity pay gap, the disability pay gap, having better jobs for people, having unionized jobs, about getting rid of the Tory government.
Speaker 3:All of these things are really important. But we've also got a face for fact that if we carry on the route we're going right now with the climate crisis, then you know we're heading up Schitt's Creek and then we've got to turn around quick.
Speaker 2:I've got two group of questions. I like being able to swear on your podcast. Of course, yeah, of course, no, it's good. So if you were PM tomorrow and you inevitably had to deal with the shit they had to deal with before from the previous colleagues, how would you introduce green issues into your reign? I mean, what would your be your criteria for prioritization?
Speaker 3:I love this question. So this is probably my biggest thing as deputy leader of the Green Party Is that everyone like. If people have heard of the Green Party, the one thing they know is that we care about the planet and the environment. But what they don't know is that we have amazing policies on things like rent controls, housing, policing, transport, like every kind of area you could think of in your life. We have green issues and that's because there's no environmental justice without racial, social and economic justice to all of these things are interconnected. For instance, if you get flooded in London, if you're rich enough and if you have insurance for flooding isn't going to bother you that much. If you're a renter or you're someone who doesn't own their own home and you don't have insurance and you aren't getting this information, and that will disproportionately be communities as well of color and working class communities. You are disproportionately affected by the climate crisis.
Speaker 3:And so what I'm always doing as Green Party deputy leader is making these links between things like reparations as well. Reparations and stop the manganese campaign. All of these things are essentially talking about colonization and empire, and nothing has fueled colonization and empire more than the extraction of fossil fuels, particularly in countries of Africa, and I think it's just really important that we join all of these dots and that the environment doesn't exist in the silo, and the environmental movement have been really guilty of this, for decades.
Speaker 3:Way before I got along. It's been white, it's been middle class. It's not to knock the work they've been doing. I was glad they were talking about environment, but I think there was a huge piece missing, which is to make sure that everyone's involved and everyone knows what's going on. I'd say something we're missing in the Green Party is genuine diversity. So we have a greens of color group and we have a Jewish greens. We have an LGBT greens, but it is not as big as I want it to be.
Speaker 3:And this is a bit chicken and egg, because I know that sometimes I've got friends of color who have gone to spaces and they've gone. Everyone was white. I didn't want to get involved. It's legitimate for them to do that, but until people go, I'm the only person of color in here and I'm going to stay here. Then the next person of color goes and goes ah, there's two of us here, and then, very quickly, things grow. Do you consider yourself white? No, I don't. So this is a really interesting question about Jewish identity and of color, and I don't know if you know of a commentator, ash Sarkar which is from the Navarra media.
Speaker 3:She's an amazing commentator, but she challenged me recently with this on Twitter, saying you're Jewish, you're still white. Jewish is white Because of course you get black juice, of course you get Yemeni juice, you get juice from all over the world, but for me, being white is not being othered, it's being of what is perceived as a majority in this country. Of course, we know the global majority is very different, and it's being perceived as having certain privileges and certain ways that you are, and the conversation we had earlier is about being othered, about the people who say where are you from? What are you doing? People have got questions about my name, but I density. I'm happy with all of those things, but what I don't want to do is associate that identity with being white and again, I know perfectly well that women.
Speaker 3:That's his return. As I talked about before, I'm going to be high up on their list to be targeted both for being Jewish but both for being LGBT too, and so I think it's important to recognize the difference in identity. Now, am I a person of color? Is a more complicated question, because I think the phrase person of color is probably quite an unhelpful phrase that started in America and I think, if we're talking about black people, we probably should say black people, and even then we shouldn't say black people. We should say black people from Eritrea, black people from Jamaica, black people from Brixton.
Speaker 2:So, being specific about, the person of color Exactly.
Speaker 3:I agree with that whole heartedly, and so I think these kind of phrases are problematic in and of themselves. So then you've got to decide where do you fit on that spectrum? And my white passing sure to some people I am, and I totally accept that. Do I have the same disadvantages in society that a black person will have when stopped by the police? Absolutely not. So I'm not for a second trying to kind of bandwagon on anyone else. Pressure, not, take anything away. But I also don't think that ticking myself in the white box is the right box to be in. So I'd like my own box, which is to be a British Jew that's living in London, but that box isn't always there. So we're not.
Speaker 2:It brings us, quite ironically, on to what's going on by Marvin Gaye.
Speaker 3:What is going on?
Speaker 2:I will talk about that while you chose that song, but listen to the tune of thoughts.
Speaker 5:I Do bring some loving here today by the father. We don't need to escalate. You see, war is not the answer, for all in love can come to hate. You know, we've got to find a way To bring some loving here today. Oh, picket lights and picket signs.
Speaker 5:Don't punish me with brutality. Talk to me so you can see. Oh, what's going on. What's going on, what's going on, what's going on, what's going on. I want to listen to you. I want to listen to you. What's the name? It's my name. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. I swear to the land. Mother, mother, everybody thinks we're evil, all but who are they to judge us? So we cause our hair to dry. Oh, you know, we can't defy. Drink some of the blood standing here today, pick it flat and pick it silent. Don't punish me With brutality. Come on, talk to me. Come on, talk to me. You can't see what's going on. Yeah, what's going on? Tell me what's going on. I'll tell you what's going on. What's going on? Right on, right on, right on, right on, right on, right on, right on Right on.
Speaker 2:So that's what's going on by Marvin Gaye from 97 to 1. Talk to me about that track.
Speaker 3:I mean it's hard not to sound cliched on this one, because when a tune is so iconic and the man is so iconic, everything has been said. What can I say? But I think the thing about that tune is I think on YouTube at the moment there's a version of it where it's the exact same song but they've overlaid it with modern events around Black Lives Matter and what was going on during the pandemic and like every single word of it it's still just as prescient and like that's depressing, because you go, he was writing what year did he say? Was it 71? He was writing that in 71 and you listen to it and you're like that's still relevant now.
Speaker 3:It's not for me, not as a Black person, to say things have moved on and things have got so much better.
Speaker 3:I imagine things have got better, but also recognizing the deep injustice there still is in our society, still around race.
Speaker 3:I don't think the song is just about race. Again, I'm not Marvin Gaye's, I shouldn't speak about his song, but he's clearly talking about racing, this song but I think it's also about economic inequality, about class, about the way people are being treated and again, this has been my last time being overtly political, but I imagine some people listen to this podcast will go I agree entirely like we've got to get the Taurus out and that's why you've got to vote Labour and people have always voted Labour and I think it's always important to challenge that narrative because actually, keir Starmer and this version of the Labour Party have you turned on every possible important social justice measure they can. Just a couple of weeks ago, keir Starmer's saying he'll keep the two child benefit cap that will literally put hundreds of thousands of children into poverty. He won't challenge the Metropolitan Police. They've been very clear that it's this kind of narrative that that police isn't institutionally racist, it's just a few bad apples and that is deeply problematic language and that is institutional defensiveness. Did you grow?
Speaker 2:up voting.
Speaker 3:Labour or a Labour voting family? No, so my family and me weren't political at all growing up. In fact, if you'd asked me at like 2021 who the leader of the opposition was, I probably wouldn't have even been able to tell you, and that's quite rare in politics.
Speaker 2:Most people have like that's very honest of you as well. So how did you get into politics? So you went to drama school in Georgia at a good time. You came back. What happened? And then? How did you?
Speaker 3:You had a glint in your eye, though, when you said I had a good time. I did have a great time.
Speaker 2:Family show.
Speaker 3:Let's meet, thank you very much, yeah, go ahead. So when I was doing theatre, I was doing something called Theatre of the Oppressed, which is a form of theatre where you go to a place where people that consider themselves are oppressed or vulnerable. So let's take, for instance, I was doing it with renters at one point, young renters who were not able to challenge that landlord and were being evicted.
Speaker 3:And what you do is you call, it's called rehearsing revolution actors will then play the landlord or the oppressor and then people in the audience will get up and they will have a go at like, not have a go like punch you. That's one way of dealing with it. How can you know your rights to be able to challenge that oppressor? And then different people in the audience will have a go until everyone in the audience feels like they're an empowered enough voice to be able to challenge them.
Speaker 3:Another really cool one I did was in Islington once in the church was around illegal immigration raids, so where people were being raided by immigration police and people would just stand there and watch, not knowing what to do. That's not judging them, but I think they see the police charging in and they're a bit like. I don't want to throw myself in that situation. So this was for if people were willing to be able to challenge the police, to be able to say under what powers are you doing this on, to know the rights of the people who were being charged that obviously you need to check with them first.
Speaker 3:They want you to do that we don't need white saviour or whatever saviour complex, but where people feel like they want support, being able to give them support. So I was doing that work for lots of different groups and I think there's only so long you can do that for before you're like. You can be the most effective, articulate voice in the world. You can be powerful, but if the system is built to not allow your voice to come through, then nothing is ever going to change.
Speaker 2:So that's when they decided to get into voting politics to change the system we just did this really important because it took me a while years, even up to now. You're constantly learning how to handle racial situations, especially when you get older, I suppose when you're younger how to manage conversations, not just reacts and just call it out, how you turn it back on them, but how you take the oxygen out of the fire and put it back on them. It took me a while to perfect that and to learn how to deal with difficult people, but also to understand why they think like that as well, some of the histories behind that. It took me a while to learn that, but you doing that project, I think, is really, really useful.
Speaker 3:This might be too personal, but do you experience racism on a regular basis, would you say?
Speaker 2:not as much as I did, because I'll either own the place that I'm in right, it's nice. I'll own the place I'm in, that I'm going to be here and then if they do have any problem with that, then we'll have that conversation at that level. I do experience because I also have a parallel career in IT consultancy. Why am I here? I almost questioned my criteria and my qualification and I don't entertain at all. I said I'm here because I've got the job. If you've got any problems, then go forward. But I've had people say to me how did you get here? And I'll be sarky and say I took the bus. But really they're saying what's my route here? What was I given as a scholarship or some sort of race based handout? Some people are actually shocked that we actually exist and our professionals may have their own preconceived notions about what we do and how we exist in life. So is it what?
Speaker 3:were we talking about before. Do you think things have got better?
Speaker 2:they've got better. For me, because I've managed it a lot better, and, I think, for younger gay people who are just out at school, I think it has got better in terms of awareness and has it got better, I don't know. Brexit has set me back a bit. I hope so, but I think I'm doing my silent improvements as well and my contribution.
Speaker 3:I'm really proud of you. It's really amazing to hear you just say that so concretely. I was at a reception the other day with Lady Phil a black pride reception and the mayor was there as well, and it was just really interesting watching Lady Phil and the mayor side by side and seeing the amount of power soft power that Lady Phil has in that room in terms of just her ability to be able to be in a space and be 100%, authentically herself like it's. Nothing can be more powerful than someone being themselves.
Speaker 2:What's your opinion on this? I'll only question black pride black lawyers. They're all gay lawyers. I think this is part of the back of colonialism, but all marginalised people are now black lawyers, or gay this or female this. Why do marginalised people have to put their marginalised identity before their professional role? Why would you do that? In my opinion, why do you think that's part of our language?
Speaker 3:It's a really good question and in many ways I should just fire it back at you because to say you know how do you feel about those groups?
Speaker 2:but the fact you're asking me suggests you're not keen on it.
Speaker 2:I try not to have black friends or gay friends or white friends. I try to have friends. I try not to be a black DJ. In fact I'm not a black DJ because we're expected to do that in some way, so you don't really have black DJs. Dj, oh that's cool, it's not questioned. You don't really usually have black bouncers. That's kind of things that people roles that are stereotypically want, but anything beyond that. If I'm a programme director for a company oh, so you're a black director for this then when it's in roles that are not usually occupied by marginalised people, then let's say then you become black.
Speaker 2:this, it's a prefix to the role that you have.
Speaker 3:What do you think about that? I think where you're at is where I would love society to be. Not that I'm in charge and not that I'm all ruling on this, but I think a place where we genuinely have equality and people don't need a group to feel solidarity in is important. Having said that, though, I think some people go oh, I want a society where people don't see race and they don't see colour. But I'm really proud of being Jewish. I'm really proud of being LGBT. I don't want to be in a society where people don't recognise me as my kind of community.
Speaker 2:The bad thing is you're Judaism or you're being Jewish, or you're being gay is not overt. Yeah, yeah, no, I totally accept that People can't see it instantly.
Speaker 3:Although people do ask me all the time from Jewish, but I take your point that it's not as obvious as black skin.
Speaker 3:So I think the danger of what you're saying is it's close and I know you're not making this argument to when people say all lives matter during the Black Lives Matter movement that we're going.
Speaker 3:Why are we saying black lives matter? Why not all lives matter? We know we don't live in that society that we were just talking about, that we want to live in in the future where we've got through some of these problems. And so if, for the majority of people who don't feel comfortable owning a space because they haven't found the way to own that or their oppression is so high or so big because of their context, they can't own the space even if they wanted to, they can't be authentically themselves, even if they wanted to, because there are so many obstacles and barriers that they would either be in danger and physical danger, or their mental health would be in danger, or they're just not going to get paid as much or be able to promote it, then I think it's then important that you have a group that you can find solidarity with, and I think that's why black lives are important.
Speaker 3:I think if you go to Pride, what's called mainstream pride some people call it white pride. It's clearly not white pride. There are black people who walk in Pride in London, but let's be honest, it's 90%.
Speaker 3:I don't know the stats is a vast majority is white people. And then you go to black pride, which is an event which I vastly prefer because there's a community feel and there's a feel of we're different, we're proud of our difference, we're proud of our diversity, and I think it's really good to have those spaces. It's the same conversation people go why do you need a gay club? Should we get to the point where two gay people can kiss in a straight club and it's all fine? I think in some areas of the country we're probably at that place. I would kiss my boyfriend in a straight club very happily, but also there's nothing quite like being in a space where you go. I am totally comfortable in this space and I don't need to.
Speaker 3:what I'm doing is not unusual, Don't?
Speaker 2:get me when we come to gay clubs. I get that because you don't want to have to work out what somebody is and make mistakes, do you?
Speaker 3:want to go there and just do what you need to do. This weekend at the festival there was a speed dating thing where, like maybe a thousand people were given stickers that said are you looking for a man, woman, non-binary, what is your sexuality, etc. Etc. And then you're looking for a relationship or a friendship. And then some of my friends said should we go just saying we're looking for a friendship? And I was like it would really piss me off if I was going speed dating and I meet someone who's cute and then I look on their badge and it says I'm looking for friendship. I'd be like go do any of the other events, just don't go speed dating.
Speaker 2:No, no, I get that Are you single?
Speaker 3:I don't know that. I am yeah, Okay, so for people who are looking at, not who are on podcasting. I haven't seen people yet.
Speaker 2:He's cute, I'm going to become a facial symmetry Stop already. He's embarrassed me. Man Bully podcast Everybody's loving that. Now what are you looking for in a guy? Yeah, sanity, facial symmetry, values, I think. For me, I think it's a mixture of all these different things. I think a lot of people are still toying with gay identity as well as values, just normal values that come with that, and I think don't get me wrong I've had to walk it through as well and do the work through therapy and things like that. I think that there's a lot to work through in terms of if you want to be yourself and be honest and true and what comes with that in terms of social currency and being a marginalized person as well, and I think a lot people have to do the work and work that through and be proud of who they are I didn't forget gay or black but be proud of who they are in terms of their values, and then bring those other things to the table as well and manage that going through.
Speaker 3:I think you're entirely right and I think you know when I used to think about Grindel which I've been in a relationship for five years now, so it's been a while since I've been on that app you give me that face like oh, we're having Grindel chat now. But I used to think about when guys used to say DL on the download, and like not always black but often black and just the extra kind of security risks there are for people, and like not being able to tell people where they're going or who they're meeting.
Speaker 3:Like if I used to go and meet someone, I would tell my brother like he's one of my best friends, so I'd just say I'm going out, might be gone for a couple of hours, but you know I just when people aren't able to be who they are, like that comes with a whole host and set of risks, yeah so a lot of people don't know, especially about homophobia within the Western, d's or African communities.
Speaker 2:Is that homophobia when you have a few uprisings, in slavery, etc. Etc. What they used to do is get the people involved in it and get them to F each other in front of them publicly, just to humanize them even more, take their masculinity out. So in terms of that history and that trauma coming with that not that we don't know about that that amplified the homophobia, because it reminds me of past traumas. As opposed to so some people, older generations, have difficulty of why would, how can you be gay? Because that's just such a faux pas culturally. I don't. It might be about the sexual aspect of it, but I think there's a lot of historical cultural trauma based around that as well. Okay, let's get back to the beats. This next song is by Little Sims. By the way, her latest tune is off the chain. It's called Gorilla. I'm getting more and more into her music. What are you saying about this, zach?
Speaker 3:I'm cheating on this song because you said five songs at a seminal and this song only came into my life in the last couple of months. It's had such a big impact on me and I just love the tune and listen to it all the time, so it had to go on the list.
Speaker 1:Is what you carb dog said. Oh, it's on the list. Know you wanna live with no one watching like you spend. Got a thing for the finer things and the finer men. Miss Tanzania, she a do or die said. She wanna know more about the Sopulma tribe. We hit the zoo once, wasn't enough. Got a notion for the knowledge. You will scuba dive. Miss ETO PR can play so jazzy, they'll see you down to school. You won't sell. I see. Tell em you're not in wed-out a woman, no woman to woman. I just wanna see you glow. Tell em what's up. I I love how you glow, from zero to one hundred and leave the dust behind, you've got this pull action.
Speaker 1:No talk, bayesian honeys. Know you reppin' for your country. Sun kissing your brown skin, looking like money, said she. Focusin' on bein' an accountant. When you have beauty in brains they find it astounding why she been gettin' it on her own. N***a self made ain't nobody doin' gold n***a. Now. Miss India always speaks with her chest, got respect from her people cause she leads them the best real life queen and the flesh know the crown get heavy still the bees in your head. Brooklyn ladies know you hustle on the daily, innovative, just like Donna summer in the 80s, your time, it seem. You glow now intelligence and elegance. Show em how you come understand food for the soul. She get up in the kitchen. Oh, she throw down. Ain't nothing without a woman. No woman to woman. I just wanna see you glow. Tell em what's up. I I love how you glow from zero to one hundred and leave the dust behind.
Speaker 6:You've got this. Pull action. No talk. Bayesian honeys know you reppin' for your country. When you walk in a room they feel you. So her style. It shines so ahead of time and you know that you fight your soul that fine girl she a gonna girl.
Speaker 1:Come with it. Never let the mile wanna fail, though a sucker for the romance. Take you to the homeland one way. She ain't comin' back now. All I see is black stars and I friggin' love it. Yeah, yeah, time's up. Tell the people that we coming. Yeah, yeah, done, bein' in the shadow goin' public. Yeah, yeah, don't know how to bear it, how to stomach. Yeah, yeah, hand over the shit and let us run it. Yeah, yeah, all we know is the cuckoo clueless. All they know is thirst. Yeah, ain't nothing without a woman. No woman to woman. I just wanna see you glow, glow.
Speaker 6:I I love how you glow from zero to one hundred and leave the dust behind.
Speaker 1:You've got this and leave that wave in light you've got this and I just wanna see you glow, tell us what's up. You know it's gonna be. Sometimes you know it's the ground and I just think of you.
Speaker 1:All the things you've gone through, all the great things you've done, like all the horrible things that I just thought were half the great things in life and how you don't really get greatness about sacrifice, you don't get good things about a little bit of pain, and how happiness is the substitute for the emptiness that you can sometimes feel on the other side and you know just so that's a track called Woman by Little Sims.
Speaker 2:It's got the Erica Badoeus bits in there. It's got her nice flow, really nice drums. Talk to me about this one and where you're coming from on this one and why it's just a beautiful tune, isn't it?
Speaker 3:I think when I listen to it, it just feels like everything's gonna be okay and actually just said to me do I enjoy my job? I do love it and it's stressful and I feel like to have just a tune that it's not like there's so much to this tune and actually it's intensely political, but actually if you just listen to it, it doesn't necessarily sound it, it's just a beautiful tune with a beautiful voice. It's when you listen to the lyrics. I think it's that sweet spot of beautiful tune makes you feel good, saying something that really needs to be said, and it's representing for all the women around the world and it's beautiful, really, really clever anyway, she did it, I played this or I sent this yesterday to my cousin Debbie.
Speaker 2:In fact, she's a great listener, debbie, I brought her up in your self-cars.
Speaker 3:Yes, debbie.
Speaker 2:Yes, debbie, she loved it and she said to me the way it describes women and, as you said before, you get Brooklyn women, you get Algerian women, you get all different black women and women across the board. It broke them down into not contingent parts but their differences and just to open people up to the wider dynamic of a woman, the wider West Indian diaspora people don't really hear about much as well. So I mentioned places like Barbados, which are, yes, a famous country, but you don't hear it very much in music in that sort of way, in a flow. So I like the way she just picks out little bits like that. It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3:I just read this amazing book too, called Pleasure Activism, which is lots of female black authors around the world talking about like their activism but also how they find joy and pleasure in it. It quotes Audrey Lord a lot and there's just a lot of amazing stuff in there.
Speaker 2:Who's?
Speaker 3:that by. I don't worry, I'll stick it in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Don't worry about it, I'll put it in the pressure there, but you enjoy it, yep, it's just an amazing book.
Speaker 3:The first chapter they've written for women's demands that they masturbate in between each chapter so this book is going in in terms of like loving yourself and being happy with yourself.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you are off the rickshaw. I was an expert to need to colour conversation going on to that.
Speaker 3:I'm just repeating what I read in this book. So what's your?
Speaker 2:relationship with rap as well, because a lot of people like getting into rap now with little sims. So I think we've had a different relationship with rap at different stages. Do you like the musical form, but can you listen to rap and flow?
Speaker 3:through it easily, absolutely. I love rap. I always have them, I think, as well as rap, the kind of I can't remember the guy's name on YouTube, but someone might remember the kind of free flow word battle yeah, the freestyle, but the battles, yeah, just like the amount of lyrical dexterity that takes to do the wordplay. And again there's a politician. That's in many ways what you're looking for. And then you see people like Stormzy that can talk both about politics and make incredible music and you're just like, if you can harness the power of being able to speak in that way, in such a powerful way, that's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:I think as well as that, people up here don't understand about rap, and I'm not. Comparatively with songs, you can hold notes over bars. With the rap you've got to put words into it. There's not more words per bar, which is really really difficult to fit in and to make sense without having anything that's filling in as an ad lib. To fill those bars in with new words and to make sense that's quite hard to write.
Speaker 3:It's just phenomenal. So I'm going to sound old now. But some rappers don't like where I don't like violent metaphors and I think a lot of rap is violent Bashments. Similarly, like I love the tune, I love the vibe, I don't like it when it's homophobic or misogynistic. But we know there's lots of bashment and dancehall that isn't. I don't like it when people go. I don't like this whole genre because it's like this. Some elements of it are, then let's write other elements of it that aren't, and I think music can be all things.
Speaker 2:Rap is one facet of hip hop which has five different elements. So we're talking about graffiti, we're talking about rap, we're talking about breakdancing, DJing, MC, all that sort of stuff. But people just see it as one thing because the most commercial aspect is rap. But actually they might look like spray can art, they might look like graffiti. That's part of hip hop and they can take that part. I get that. But they don't see that as all intertwined and they're all equally valuable in terms of the hip hop movement.
Speaker 3:Two things. You probably don't know about me that I used to be in a gospel choir and also I used to breakdance, seriously, yeah, but anyway, my point being other than to show off my skills. By the way, I can't even squat anymore, never mind breakdance. Let's move one there. But the funk, the genre of funk, plus gospel, plus soul plus rap, these are all the same vibes, they're all the same music. They're just a different tempo and I think it always seems ludicrous to me when people like some elements of it and not you're listening to the same thing.
Speaker 3:It's just a different vibe. Having said that, heavy metal is one that loses me Just a bit. Who are your heroes? Well, what jumped to mind straight away was my boyfriend, which is that weird for your boyfriend to be a hero, but yeah, he's absolutely one of my heroes.
Speaker 3:As a boyfriend's rich. He works just down the road actually in a hospice in palliative care. One, as well as being beautiful. Two, he works with people who are dying and loves that every day. And three, it's the way he approaches the world, in terms of the compassion, love and kindness he gets to every single human being. I'll blame my own trumpet. I'm pretty kind and compassionate, but the level he does it on to find time for anyone any time, no matter how irritating they might be.
Speaker 2:Do you have any heroes that are at risk for that? What's your boyfriend's name? Richie. I've got other heroes.
Speaker 3:Ricky is another one.
Speaker 2:Be the Blair? Yeah, exactly Any hero that you don't know that you have a.
Speaker 3:I have got you. Yeah, michelle Obama, wow, okay Nice. I love Barack. I've got issues with some things he did, but I also think the way that she handles herself during campaigns with dignity and grace and has found that perfect balance of supporting someone as in being in the shadow, but also absolutely shining her own light too, is amazing. I mean, I could keep going with heroes for a while. There's lots of people I like, lil Nas like an apologetic. Authenticity is something I don't know necessarily if I want to run on the TV and twerk every day but I do think, do you say twerk every day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. It's just a place to be on time, that idea on the Andrew Marsh show.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Let's get on to the next tune. The next tune is called Cruel Intentions by JMSN. I've got to ask have you heard this song before? I have. I've played it before for the show and the tune is heavy. I was like who is this guy? He's pronounced Jameson and he's going to change your life, he's amazing. Shame. So let me do it like an acronym it's Jameson, yeah, it's Jameson, oh shame. So why do you spell it like that? I mean, what's all that about?
Speaker 3:It's a good quote. His name's Christian. That might be okay, and I've met him a few times, is it? I've just been to his gigs and then hung around like a fanboy afterwards but he's his beautiful soul. Let's get into this.
Speaker 5:I got so much on my mind.
Speaker 6:I can't sleep. Wish I could turn back the head. Everybody wants to fuck someone else, want to feel a thing they never felt when they was with you. All right, my girl will tell me, go and get some help. I tried to try, but I can't seem to make her out the way she will.
Speaker 5:Just the years you were with me at the end of the day.
Speaker 6:I'm going back in my fair share of mistakes, my fair share of bad dreams. I met the real. I met the fake, started to learn how much time it takes. Everybody wants to fuck someone else. Want to feel the thing they never felt when they was with you, want to feel a thing they never felt when they was with you. My girl will tell me go and fuck yourself. I tried to try, but I can't seem to make her out the way she will, just the years you were with me at the end of the day, I just want some attention.
Speaker 6:I just want some attention.
Speaker 4:I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 6:I just want some attention. Here are all your scars.
Speaker 5:Let me hear you. Baby, come on, I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 6:I just want some attention.
Speaker 5:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention.
Speaker 4:I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention, I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 7:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 3:I just want some attention. I just want some attention. I just want some attention, I just want some attention, I just want some attention.
Speaker 2:I just want some attention.