17: Reflections of a Fat Girl with Body Image Specialist, Ilene Leshinsky

As women, many of us struggle with loving and accepting our bodies. Culturally we are programmed by what we see in the media and by diet culture, and it’s detrimental to the way we view ourselves. 

 In today’s episode, Melissa dives deep into body acceptance with Ilene Leshinksy, a psychotherapist, teacher, body image specialist, creator of Find Body Freedom, and author of "Reflections of a Fat Girl.”  

Ilene deemed herself a fat girl many years ago because of what she heard growing up from her peers as well as her parents and grandparents . Messages of being “too thin” or being told she shouldn’t eat certain things left her confused and disconnected.

By the age of 5, she was a very overweight child by society’s standards, and that had a horrific effect on her self-esteem and confidence. She had no idea how to listen to her body and understand her satiety, so this led to many years of overeating and dysfunction with food.

Listen in as Melissa and Ilene both discuss their childhoods and the origins of their body image stigma. Take note of what these two incredible women have to say about body appreciation and learning to live in our bodies and be pleased with them is the key to food and body freedom.

They also dive into the negative and toxic impact of ads and social media when it comes to body image among women and men. 

Ilene’s program, Find Body Freedom, was created for women who wish to transform their attitude regarding their bodies and how they look at food. 

She works with women of all ages who want to feel good about themselves AND transform their relationship to food so they can feel free and empowered with their eating.

RESOURCES:

If you feel you could relate to today’s episode and have been feeling the same, check out Ilene's book here, Reflections of a Fat Girl.

Follow Ilene here:

Instagram: www.instagram.com/findbodyfreedom

Facebook: www.facebook.com/findbodyfreedom

Struggling with emotional eating, stress eating or yo-yo dieting? Download my Food Freedom Guide HERE and take your power back from food today!

If you want to get some free coaching around a specific issue or challenge you are facing, be a guest on my show and let’s work it out together and help you Come Home to what truly matters;​ book a session here.

Come join my FREE Facebook Group, Reclaim Your Wild: A Radical Self-Care + Self-Discovery Group for Women

Find Melissa on her social media platforms:

Instagram: @melcostellocoach

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/groups/2004687

Youtube: www.youtube.com/user/karmachow

Website: www.karmachow.com

Transcript

Ilene Leshinsky 0:00

our body is our home in this lifetime. This is our home. And how are we going to treat our home, If you don't take care of your body, where will you live? what we do and what we put into our bodies takes on a whole different meaning. When we look at our bodies as our home.

Melissa Costello 1:06

Welcome friends. Thanks so much for joining me today on come home. I'm in spending a lot of time reflecting this last week on what it means to be a woman and our place in the world. Gosh, there's so much patriarchal bullshit. We have to fight against that's the times it feels overwhelming and hopeless. Yes, we've come really far as a gender. And yet we still have so far to go in terms of our true freedom. Especially around our bodies and what it means to age as a woman. I've been watching Ted lasso. I don't know if you have tuned into that. And I had no idea about the show, but I keep hearing Bernay brown. And Glennon Doyle talking about it and I had to look it up and I am totally hooked. And I just love Hannah Waddington. She is this force in the show. And the thing that I love about her is. That she is not like most of the celebrities out there who have frozen their faces gotten plastic surgery. They're scared to age. You can see the lines on her face. And she is so stunningly beautiful. She's super tall. And she wears these high heels and she towers over everyone in the show and she owns it. And I just look at her and I think, gosh, that is what it means to be a truly embodied and accepting woman. And. You know, media is one of the biggest culprits for women not feeling good about themselves. They continue to push. An ideal body type on us or an ideal version of beauty. And that's why so many women are afraid to let themselves age naturally. You know, most women, my age. I'm in my early fifties. Are injected with Botox or fillers, or have already gotten some kind of lift, like an eye lift or a chin lift or, you know, getting their smile lines erased and. It's because we're all afraid to allow ourselves to age and what that's going to mean about our place in society. And you know what, I'm calling bullshit on it. Because there's so much more to us than just what we look like. And, you know what, as I'm getting older. Yes. There's definitely days where it's hard to look in the mirror and see the lines on my face or the furrow between my brow or the sagging skin on my neck. And to truly accept that. Then, you know, I just have to bring myself back to the fact that it's a natural part of life and the lines on my face show wisdom, and they show a life lived. And one thing we definitely can't do is stop time. We can't age backwards and yet so many women out there are trying to do it by changing their external appearance. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't take care of ourselves or care about how we look. Yet. So many women, myself included for so many years base all their value and who they are on the way they look. And like I said earlier, there's so much more to us than what's on the surface. So, I know I mentioned Glennon's podcasts, but you must go listen to her podcast. It's called beauty. how did we get trapped in this cage and how do we break free? But don't go there yet because you have to listen to this episode because I dive in today. With expert and author Ilene Leshinsky. and we talk a lot about body image in this episode, she's the founder of fine body freedom. And she recently published a book called reflections of a fat girl. At the age of five, Eileen was deemed very overweight. She had a mother who overfed her to try and please her mother-in-law. And she was also made fun of by all the kids in her classes growing up. And Ilene because she was eating all the time. Had no idea what hunger and fullness was. And so she was completely disconnected from her body and that created a dysfunctional relationship with food. So as many of you now I've shared my story. I too struggled with my eating and body image. For many years of my life. I'd say most of my adult life. So this episode really touched me deeply and resonated with me on such a deep level as Ilene and I both share our stories from our childhoods and how we grew up hating our bodies. So make sure you listen in, as we talk about how we both broke free. And how true acceptance was the game changer. Not only with how we felt about ourselves, but to also actually let go of the extra weight that we felt was holding us back. So I talk a little bit about Ilene's book here and I linked it up in the show notes to make sure you check that out. And I know you're going to truly love this episode with highly. welcome to the show, Ilene. It's so great to have you here.

Ilene Leshinsky 5:59

Oh, Melissa. I'm so glad to be here. with you. Thank you for having me.

Melissa Costello 6:03

You're welcome. Well, I'm excited to dive in today. You are the author of a book called reflections of a fat girl. What an interesting title.

Ilene Leshinsky 6:13

Yes. Thank you. I think so., I picked it very deliberately Melissa.

Melissa Costello 6:18

Yes. And you self describe as a fat girl. So I'm curious what inspired you to take on that label and make it your book title? So tell us a bit about that.

Ilene Leshinsky 6:27

Okay. So there are a couple of things involve here and actually your question makes me think of something. what I have called myself a fat girl way back then and had that as a book title. If I had not been labeled that by others when I was a little girl. And so I find that interesting now, and I think yo, this is the first time I've thought about that. But having said that. I self-describe and use fat girl as part of the book title, because I was literally a fat girl. I was born at normal weight, but by the time I was five years old, I was very, very, very, very overweight and, The, you know, reasons for that. But the point is it happened.

Melissa Costello 7:20

let's talk about the reasons for that. As a young girl, know, were you raised around parents? Who dieted, did you notice that you ate more food than others? I'm just curious how. That came about, because if we're really young, we're usually, you know, as kids we're very active and a lot of times these types of issues they can come from our parents, seeing what our parents do. So I'm just curious how that all came about for you now as an adult, looking back.

Ilene Leshinsky 7:49

Sure. That's a wonderful question. like I said, I was born at normal weight, but I had a mother, pretty anxious mother who was trying to please my father's mother who thought that I was not eating enough and I was too skinny. Okay. And I laugh at them now. But the point being that my mother devised strata, this is the family story, my mother device, Strategies, to get me to eat more. So, as you know, after I had eaten my meal she would put like a mop on her head and dance around the kitchen and I would of course laugh. And when I left, she would shove a spoonful of something else. In my mouth, food obviously, but the intuitive eating expert would say that. At a very, very early age, I lost my innate signals, body signals for hunger and satiety. So it's really hard to know when not to eat when you're always eating. And it's hard to know when to stop when you don't have the innate signals. So I ate and ate and I became a snaky eater. And again, by the time I was five. was very overweight. So that was the story. But then the story continues because I was eating emotionally for lots of different reasons, things going on in my family at the time. But also because I was just so sad because I was a fat girl.

Melissa Costello 9:24

when did you first become aware that you were a fat girl?

Ilene Leshinsky 9:27

at five,

Melissa Costello 9:29

Oh, really?

Ilene Leshinsky 9:30

mean really, really, really early. Yeah. You know, you asked about where my parents diet or snow, they weren't dieters, but they were very appearance. Driven. and, I would get either the looks, That look that says, do you really need that extra helping? Or I would get the words, the eyes would roll if I went for a second helping, you know, if I went for any kind or any size of dessert, I leaned you really need that. And so from a very early age, I got the messages that I did not measure up to appearance, but also there was something wrong with my relationship with food. Of course, I wouldn't have been able to label it like that. Then, you know, I was 5, 6, 7, 9 years old, but the point is you know, received messages pretty regularly. If not daily.

Melissa Costello 10:23

And it sounds like there were a lot of mixed messages because on one hand you know, your mom's mother-in-law saying to feed you and you had your mother entertaining you and feeding you, and then also saying, do you need that extra food? and being so appearance driven. So it sounds like there were a lot of mixed messages around food and your body.

Ilene Leshinsky 10:42

Well, absolutely. you Are correct. And I don't think my mother realized when she was you know, making me chuckle in order to feed me more that literally ending up a fat child would be the end result of that. But that's indeed what happened, but talk about mixed messages. You remind me. Of something, Melissa. My parents were uh, of the depression era and, So very much a a product of or very into a scarcity mindset. so, you know, the opposite of that is abundance obviously, or over abundance in my home. There were. Two full refrigerators, two freezers, a big freezer full of frozen cow, and all sorts of other things. But the thing that I'm saying to you in the kitchen, I'll never forget this. It was a little mini fridge loaded with chocolate.

Melissa Costello 11:42

Wow.

Ilene Leshinsky 11:43

Chocolate of all kinds. So this fat girl isn't supposed to be eating anything that is not what diet oriented we would call it now. but yet there was a refrigerator loaded with chocolate that was at arm's reach.

Melissa Costello 12:00

is that how your kind of secret eating started happening, knowing that there was all this food around and you weren't quote unquote allowed to have it? Is that when kind of the emotional eating and secret eating started for you?

Ilene Leshinsky 12:14

Yes.

Melissa Costello 12:15

Wow. that's a lot to go through as a child. were you made fun of, or bullied because of being overweight as a child?

Ilene Leshinsky 12:22

I won't say bullying. We certainly weren't using that word then, but I was teased and insulted and I, you know, they, it, back then they would line students up in elementary school from the shortest to the tallest. And have you weighed and measured every year. And I was always the shortest and the heaviest and those numbers would be yelled out across. Whatever room we were in so that everybody could hear. And yes, I got an anonymous phone call one day when I was nine years old. I'll never forget this because my mother answered the phone and was just all a glow because a boy was on the other end of the phone. And so she's looking at me. Why is the boy calling you? Why is the boy calling you? And I get on the phone and low and behold I hear from this young male voice, your fat and immediately he hung up the phone and I was left with this incredible rush of shame, I ran out of the, I was outside playing. I ran back outside and never explained to my mother what happened.

Melissa Costello 13:40

it's so difficult for children who are deemed as different based on, you know, our society, our culture, body image is such a focus. In our culture, especially for women. I'm wondering for you, cause I want to, definitely talk about the book and social media and, and what a healthy relationship looks like. But I'm wondering for you personally, when did you notice or when did you want to start to change this? Because at some point, like for me, I was an emotional eater most of my life and I hated my body. And I fought against myself. And there was, there was a breaking point for me where I said enough is enough. I can't live this way anymore. So I'm wondering for you what that breaking point was and what inspired you to write the book?

Ilene Leshinsky 14:20

Yeah, another wonderful question. My breaking point I'm not even sure I would call it that. Melissa. I floated back and forth for many years from highly restrictive eating, which today would be, you know, had a shade of anorexia to it, to binge-eating without the purging, but bingeing, and back and forth, back and forth. And my body went up and down and my health was not good and all of that. And I was in my mid thirties. Well, Okay. So here's part of the story I was lost. I recognized in my mid thirties, I couldn't do this by myself. And so I like many people joined weight Watchers and for a period of time, I really loved being in that community of women I really appreciated the community aspect of it. But as time went on, I started to recognize, Hey, wait a minute. Okay. It might not be a diet, but there's still somebody else telling me what to do, how to eat, what to eat, how much to eat. And so I just became dissociated from the weight Watchers program. And there was a moment in time and epiphany that I had while I was actually leading a weight Watchers meeting because I worked for them also

Melissa Costello 15:45

Oh, wow.

Ilene Leshinsky 15:46

a period of, Yeah. I did. I did. And I'm standing up in front of 90 women. In Brookline, Massachusetts. And they're looking at me like I have the answer, you know, the answer to how to be happy if only I could have the body that she has, you know, and I'm thinking to myself, Ilene, you're such a fraud and you're such a hypocrite. You just binged. Now here's the thing, Melissa. That was the turning point. that Voice is going on in my head, almost screaming at me. And then there's another voice that says, Hey, wait a minute, Ilene, let's just take a look at this for a second. What do you mean you binged? You have four Graham crackers, not four boxes, not four sleeves of Graham crackers four Graham crackers. Now, why was it in a binge? In my mind, Ilene the rule follower because it was three Graham crackers that at that point in time was the servings size the exchange value for a Graham crackers. And then, so this other voice is just saying softly, but very clearly, no one else is the expert on your body. You are the expert, you know what to do, you know how to eat because you have this body wisdom. That tells you this and that was it. And it was at that moment in time. I said, I can't do this anymore. One, I can't be restricting two, I can't be yelling at myself three. I can't be involved with a service that Doesn't help women learn about their own body wisdom and the fact that we were born knowing how to eat. So lots of research, lots of reading and within a. three to six months, period of time. I had created the first find body freedom program, which wasn't called fine, body freedom at the time. But the point is it was the first program and started my own program at that point.

Melissa Costello 18:02

That's amazing. you went from working at WeightWatchers and being on restrictive diets to one day. Recognizing, wait a minute. I have my own body wisdom. I know how to eat. And, and so like, was that, cause for me, that was such a process to be able, I understood that I had my own body wisdom, but it was such a process for me to be able to actually tune into it and pay attention to it. And I, you know, I hired a coach. Work directly with someone to help me with all this stuff. And so how is that for you? I mean, you had this epiphany of, I have my own body wisdom. Did you get support from that point on, like, how did you know how to create a program and to see what would work based on, you know, three months of experience through what you said it like happened in three months later, I created a program. I'm just so curious about that.

Ilene Leshinsky 18:51

Right. I created a program in three. Maybe it was, you know, it was a long time ago, Melissa, so it might've been six months, but the point is you're Right, It was a relatively short period of time. Now that does not mean that I had met my own or reached my own destination of being comfortable with my body. Absolutely not. And did I have support no. Back then. There weren't programs or groups or therapists, even who focused on those kinds of issues, but there were a lot of, and thank God for this. A lot of women writers, uh, some of them sociologists, some of them nutritionist, some of them feminists, and I kept reading and reading and reading, and I sub it all up. because of the work of a few key women who were watched shining light on this issue for women that I got the courage to live this myself and what I discovered, Melissa, I don't know if this is your story, but I discovered that. on a weight Watchers program, my eating was still highly restrictive and I needed to learn how to allow my body to get to natural weight. And that was a scary process. you know, yes. that was a scary process.

Melissa Costello 20:24

because a lot of women who have been dieting for many, many, many years, right. And doing the yo-yo dieting dance, where they lose weight, gain, weight, lose weight, gain weight, you know, most of them, myself included come to believe that the only way I can lose weight. Is through dieting and restriction and you, and I obviously both know there's another way. but that's part of, the programming of diet culture and you know, the dysfunction of diet culture that creates a dysfunctional relationship with food. So it is scary. It is scary. I remember when my coach said to me, like no more dieting, you're done, and I thought. What, right. What am I going to do? I don't trust myself and, and a big part of my process. And maybe this is true for you. It was learning how to Trust myself.

Ilene Leshinsky 21:07

Exactly. And learning how to accept my body as it changed because I was incredibly thin and now I'm not. You know, I'm at a normal weight, but I not incredibly Thin, any longer. I was skinny back then to tell you the truth. And, That was very, very hard to watch my body change. But one of the things that I have to constantly remind myself of, and this is truly truly what happened was how incredibly better I felt. as I learned what to eat, because my body was telling me, as I learned to move my body, because my body was calling for exercise, all of those things that bodies need, and they try to communicate with us. I started to listen to. Uh, my body language. And, So I was feeling so much better about myself emotionally. I felt better physically. I had more energy. I have more zest for life all of those things. But my body changed. And you know, when you think the only way to a happy life is being a thin woman, that's a tough thing.

22:28

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Melissa Costello 22:58

And you know, I really believe that all of us kind of have this set. You know, you mentioned natural body weight. I believe that all of us have this kind of set natural body weight, and it's not really what we think it should be or right, because we're basing it off of what we see in our culture. And. That is you know, skinny models or women with six pack abs who are fitness models luckily, you know, things are starting to change, which brings me to the next question around just kind of social media and Instagram, and you know, this how it's even more in the forefront seeing. People's bodies and, you know, kids these days, I just saw one of my friend's daughters. Who's 13 posing in this little red bikini, and I thought to myself, oh my gosh, like, number one, why is she doing this? You know? And, it can be dangerous. But do you think that a book like yours, you know, reflections of a fat girl and other resources on body image are more important than ever now or is, and do you think society is more accepted?

Ilene Leshinsky 23:59

I think society is somewhat more

Melissa Costello 24:03

Uh, Huh?

Ilene Leshinsky 24:04

but I'm not sure. And I'm going to tell you why we see larger size. You can't see me do this. I'm putting this in quotation marks models on TV, for example, who are models for clothing stores or certain designers, et cetera. And they're larger than where we normally see them. Now I have to ask the question though. you know, just paying lip service to some backlash from some groups of their who are saying, you need to show more of a diverse, look, broader view of women. And I think that that's a part of it. And, I also think that we have to really understand that we've gotten billions and billions and billions of dollars that advertisers spend every single year trying to convince us. That we need fixing there's something wrong with us. Now that could be that our, you know, our teeth aren't white enough. It could be that we are not modeled thin. It could be anything about how we are not looking perfect. And so they are deliberately trying to Turn our minds to you need fixing, and I can help you with this. By. If you buy this product or partake of this service, you're going to be perfect and you will be there for happy. And of course you and I, and many of the people we know know that that's absolutely not the truth, but those industries, the diet industry, the food industry fashion industry and the exercise industry. They're designed to spend a lot of money trying to tell us we can look better than we do now. And they say, oh, you'll be healthier. And that's code. it's code. It doesn't mean if we die or if we want ever we're going to be healthier. the data does not support that.

Melissa Costello 26:13

this is so huge because you know, if you think about any kind of industry out there, it really is all about, you know, selling us something to make us look better or selling us happiness. what our society deems as happiness, which, you know, I mean, so much of this stuff, is it just mostly leaves people feeling empty and wanting more, right? Like you can, you can never fill that hole from external things. And so many people are chasing down the external things. And, you know, I noticed for myself as I'm aging, I'm in my fifties now. And I'm as I'm aging, I'm probably, you know, one of the only people in my age group who has never gotten Botox and hasn't had any plastic surgery and I notice it and there's part of me. That's don't want to go live online anymore because I have, you know, wrinkles on my forehead that not anybody else has my age.

Ilene Leshinsky 27:01

I know. isn't that sad. Cause I'm looking at this photo of you and you're so lovely. And so I think you would make a lovely image on a

Melissa Costello 27:10

Well, I do do a lot. Yeah. Life stuff, but I'm just saying in the last couple years, you know, I've changed, you know, my, my face has changed a lot cause I'm in my fifties now. And so you know, but, other people around me are a lot of people in the industry and people who are on social media, they're getting all the stuff done, you know, the Botox and the wrinkle removing and the lip stuff and the whatever.

Ilene Leshinsky 27:32

I hear You I do.

Melissa Costello 27:33

and, it's sometimes hard not to compare because that's across the board, what everyone's looking like. And so when I see someone who's letting themselves age naturally, I just so salute them and applaud them. And you know, like, yes, thank you for showing me your realness. Thank you for showing me your authenticity, because I think that that's so important and because of All these industries are trying to sell us perfection or happiness. None of that is really authentic. It has to come from within

Ilene Leshinsky 28:03

And you said it before what they do end up selling us though as emptiness and we've spent a ton of money to get nothing.

Melissa Costello 28:11

That's right. Wasted. A lot of money.

Ilene Leshinsky 28:13

Exactly. Exactly. So you and I can salute each other and applaud each other for going the natural route.

Melissa Costello 28:22

Yes. I love it. Good. So let's a talk a little bit about what a healthy relationship between food and your body looks like in your opinion. And then we'll talk about, is it the same for everyone, but I want to kind of hear from you. What does that look like?

Ilene Leshinsky 28:37

I think if I could just change the wording of the question a little bit and say, what does it feel like? Because I think it's about. Learning the language of your body, paying attention to body signals, paying attention to hunger and satiety paying attention to am I getting enough sleep? Am I hydrating enough? Am I moving my body enough? Because I was born with arms and legs and therefore, duh. I was made to move. Yes. exactly. So all of these things together are about our, as women and men learning what our bodies need from us and food is very, very, very much a part of that And so what's a healthy relationship with food. It feels good. It feels like the foods that you eat or that I eat. I'll talk about me fuel my body. What does that mean? Fuel my body, it means that I have energy. I have vitality, my brain works so that I can think the thoughts I need to think. And my body has the ability to do the stuff of its day. And I have this analogy. That I'd like to share with you because it might be helpful to some of your listeners. And I asked my clients that if we were together in a car and we noticed that the light on the gas gauge hit the you're almost out of gas you know, the light that lights up that we would pull into a gas station. And what if I pulled my car? To the pump marked sugar water. Yeah. In real life, we know that there's no gas pump. Labeled sugar would, but what would happen if we did pull up to that pump and I filled the tank was sugar water, and you know, my, I have smart people. I work with, they say, you know, the car wouldn't start when you turned it on again, you would have hurt the engine. The engine would die. You would have killed the car in other words, but more often than not until we get the idea that our bodies are going to tell us what are fuel foods for our bodies? We in the morning, a lot of us are still starting off for our day with sugar and water and the tank. We're eating foods that are high in sugar, high in fat, possibly high in salt. And we are not feeling our bodies. We are making our bodies in essence. Sick by doing that. I think it's a wonderful analogy because when you realize we have to put the right foods in our tank, so to speak in order to get the vitality, the creativity just the, where with all, you know, to walk out the door, to go to work in the morning. That's the start of creating a healthy relationship with food. I was using these principles of eating before the term intuitive eating came out and it was called demand feeding. It was called toned, eating, natural, eating the point being I learned to pay attention. And feed my body when I got hunger signals, I know my hunger signals and those hunger signals might be slightly different than yours, but I feed myself when I'm hungry. I also know when my body has had enough so that I don't overeat not to say that I never have, but I generally do not over eat. So I eat when I'm hungry and I stop when I'm comfortable slash full. And that's my eating life, but my body will tell me what works for me and high fat, high sugar foods do not feel my body nor by the way, do they feel anybody's body?

Melissa Costello 32:54

I love what you're saying. And you know, I, over the years, what I've learned because I was so, so restrictive for so many years, and I, you know, I had so many food rules and so many labels about food. Is that. you know, I really believe that yes, we need to fuel our bodies and yes, we need to actually also enjoy things that we may have deemed bad or forbidden in the past. And that may be something sugary. And, you know, I think that there's a fine line between gosh, how do I want to say this? You know, like fueling our body, which almost can be a little bit. Diet centric because a lot of the wellness people out there are saying only eat to fuel your body. Well, what about, pleasure with food because that's a big part of eating is, finding pleasure in food. And so what I had to really learn was how can I eat potato chips, enjoy them and not go down the rabbit hole and then binge on them because I would restrict them so much. And so for me, I want to have a healthy balance with food, and I want to eat things that feel good in my body, but I also don't want to feel so deprived that I can't eat potato chips, or I can't have chocolate because it has sugar in it. So for me, it's been about finding what feels good for me, what works for me and where I find pleasure, but I don't ever overdo it anymore. Like I used to because I restricted those things and I considered those things bad for me.

Ilene Leshinsky 34:20

I hear you. you. And say it's very possible. That you live by this also, when I say know, food is fuel for your body and fuel your body, I am in no way saying to the exclusion of the chocolate chip cookie that I love, or the certain kind of. Premier ice cream that I enjoy, but one of the things that I learned and it's my body that directed me to this, if I'm hungry, I do not put sugar in it first because I get the metabolic crisis. I get the surge of it, energy and this crash and the lesser G that follows that. So if I'm going to enjoy a desserty kind of food or chips or something like that. There is the protein and the complex carbohydrates that belong as part of that eating experience. If I'm hungry, my body is saying it needs fuel. I think we can incorporate both into a healthy relationship with Food

Melissa Costello 35:30

Well, I love what you're saying about if my body is hungry, it needs fuel because I think that a lot of us, myself included, and especially when I was restricting, I eat those things when I'm actually not hungry, right?

Ilene Leshinsky 35:43

Correct, yes.

Melissa Costello 35:43

Like the, the meals, I eat the meals and I eat really well and I nourish my body. but Its was the emotional eating and the overeating and the binge eating where I ate those quote unquote bad foods or the sugary foods, because I didn't know how to have a healthy relationship with them.

Ilene Leshinsky 36:01

There you go. Exactly.

Melissa Costello 36:03

So you've worked with a lot of women over the years, and you are working with them to help them accept themselves and find freedom in their own bodies. What's the most common issue you see when women come to you to work with you, and how do you help them? I'd love to hear, just kind of hear about your process and what you mostly see. I mean, I do the same kind of work, and so I see a lot of the same things, but I'm just curious. For you, what you see in your work?

Ilene Leshinsky 36:28

I will start off by saying, I think what I see is the most is women comparing their bodies to other women's bodies. And I think that that is disastrous so let's even just look at media representation. We're not really looking at the real woman's body. you know, but I think we forget that. Often. And so we're looking at this Photoshop to airbrush elongated version of that woman, and we're saying, oh please, why can't I look like that? Do something for me, Ilene. I want to look like that. And I think that fantasy lives. The fantasy is you know, it, maybe it's slowly dying, but it's really, really in our core belief system about having a particular kind of body. So the body comparisons I think, are so detrimental and, You know, you've probably experienced this with a number of your clients. It's a challenge. To have women take that leap of faith, that if you learn how to, well, this is one of my core beliefs. We have to learn to love the body that we're in. Not necessarily because we're so programmed, otherwise not necessarily how it looks. But for all of the miracles, it performs for us every single day. I love my body. I love my body because I get a chance to go out for a walk with my husband every morning in nature. I love my body because, oh my God, I enjoy the food that I eat. I love my body because I can hug and, pet my dog. you know, those kinds of things. I love my body for that. there are lots of people who can't get beyond the physicality of their body. And I help them. I hope I pray to start to see body image in a different way, not in the limited socio-cultural way, but in a way that we're given this home. our body is our home in this lifetime. This is our home. And how are we going to treat our home, how to decorate our home, all of those kinds of things. And just a little story for a second, a few years ago. I came out of my gym on my way to meet my husband for a cup of coffee. I have just taken a Zumba class and talk about moving your body and love Zumba and had my husband's pointing to saying, look at this, look at this. And it was a sign on the sidewalk. That was an upgrade sign on the sidewalk. And it said. If you don't take care of your body, where will you live?

Melissa Costello 39:30

I

Ilene Leshinsky 39:31

I got chills when I saw that and I said, this is exactly what I help women do. I help women live in their bodies, be in their bodies, take good care of their bodies. And it's amazing the transformation that can happen, Melissa. I'm sure you know this, when we start taking care of our bodies, we look at really, did I really need all of that extra food? Not because I'm dieting, but because my body says I'm not hungry. You see what I'm saying? It, what we do and what we put into our bodies takes on a whole different meaning. When we look at our bodies as our home.

Melissa Costello 40:20

So, so true. And I don't know about you. what I found in the work with my clients is that so many of them have emotional and mental distraughtness around food because of the diet culture. And because of a lot of it in the wellness industry, you know, all these confusing, conflicting messages around what's good and what's bad versus. attuning, like you're saying attuning to your body, trusting your body, listening to your body, right? Like,

Ilene Leshinsky 40:47

Absolutely.

Melissa Costello 40:48

So gosh, this is such a, powerful and important conversation.

Ilene Leshinsky 40:53

Yes, it is, I agree.

Melissa Costello 40:55

So if someone were to read your book, which I hope everyone here listening will pick up a copy of reflections of a fat girl, which I will put inside the show notes. So I'll link to that to Ilene's website. But if someone was to read your book and walk away with just one thing, what would you hope that is?

Ilene Leshinsky 41:12

Well, I'm hoping you're gonna allow me two things.

Melissa Costello 41:15

Okay, let's go with two.

Ilene Leshinsky 41:16

Okay. The first one is, and this is something that I say a lot and it's in the book the book is compilation of articles that I wrote by the way from, for a local women's magazine from 2009 to 2016. And in many of those articles, I have said something along the lines of like you can't get water from a dry, well, you can't get zest. And creativity and love and spontaneity from a depleted woman. And the point being that when we are so focused on what we look like, what we put into our bodies to be thin, the exercising that we have to do in order to achieve those body goals, we're depleting ourselves there's nothing left over. We're a dry, well, so that's the first thing.

Melissa Costello 42:16

I think we just become so disconnected from ourselves and we don't even remember who we are. Right. That's part of why I called this podcast come home because we're talking about our bodies being our homes and. You know, for me, it's really about coming home back to ourselves. and remembering that body, mind and spirit, because it's not just about the body, it's the mental and emotional component as well.

Ilene Leshinsky 42:39

right. I totally agree. I

Melissa Costello 42:41

Okay. Second, second point.

Ilene Leshinsky 42:43

thing, we owe it to our daughters to learn how live in the bodies that we have to learn how to love the bodies, where it, and to stop the battles. body image with weight, our relationship with food. And why do I say this? Because believe it or not, we still have rising numbers of life-threatening eating disorders going on now and not just with women, but with men as well. And listen to this statistic, 81% of 10 year old girls are afraid of getting fat I mean, there's something really wrong with that.we owe it to the next generation of women and beyond to get our own house in order regarding our relationship with our bodies with food.

Melissa Costello 43:34

So huge. and I heard now that it's, girls that are six year, it starts at six years old and don't know. Yes. Well, even just the body image, like recognizing the body image and thinking they're fat, a very high percentage of girls,

Ilene Leshinsky 43:48

Well, there you go.

Melissa Costello 43:48

I don't know if you've read the book called burnout, but it's an incredible book written by two women and there's a huge chapter in there called the bikini industrial complex and they talk about, you know, all of these things and how young it starts. We live in a patriarchal society, and so much of what women struggle against is. You know, the patriarchal society and how they've created these, you know, the diet culture and the BMI and all of those things that women are now fighting against. Right. And we're just trying to find our ground. And, but the industries are so big, that's why people like you and I who are doing this work, it's so important because we have to break down the system.

Ilene Leshinsky 44:31

Correct. And I agree with you totally. And if we are waiting for these industries, which are making billions of dollars off of us every year to change, please stop holding your breath. The only way change happens is, as if each and every one of us, women. Changes her own thought pattern and emotional attachment to having a certain kind of body. So the only way it changes and we are able to pass that down to our daughters, granddaughters, and the little girl that lives down the street as will.

Melissa Costello 45:08

Amazing. And on that note, thank you so much, Ilene. This was such a beautiful enlightening conversation, and I'm so glad that you joined me today.

Ilene Leshinsky 45:17

Oh, thank you, Melissa. I'm so glad I was here. Thank you for inviting me.

Melissa Costello 45:22

you're so welcome. Take care.

Ilene Leshinsky 45:24

You too.

45:27

Thank you for tuning in to come home. I love hearing from you. So please leave your comments and questions. At karma child.com/podcast. That's also the place where you can sign up to get some free coaching from me on an upcoming episode. And if you love the show, please subscribe in iTunes and leave a review and share it with your friends.

Melissa Costello 45:46

You can also find all my social media handles and sign up to be a part of my community@karmachow.com. Until next time, may you come home to what truly matters in your heart?