Well, hello and welcome to another episode of The Family Business with the Alessis. I'm Steve Alesi, and I'm here with my wife, Mary. Mary Alesi. And we are looking at a part two of an episode that we started having to um deal with uh some toxic people.
SPEAKER_03Can we just say difficult people?
SPEAKER_01Difficult people, no.
SPEAKER_03Because not everybody likes the word toxic.
SPEAKER_01It is toxic. If you're difficult, I can live with you. If you're toxic, I
can't.
SPEAKER_03True.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So we're, you know, we gotta have Grace here. All right. See, I already had this setter screen.
SPEAKER_03You already work it out.
SPEAKER_01She's worked so good at this new year. Uh the whole theme of what we're trying to say is this is a new year, and there should be some new opportunities ahead of us. Right. But we've got to be sensitive that the person that has been a negative, toxic, hurtful drain on us in the past can't be brought into this new year with us emotionally and mentally and uh even spiritually. We we can't bring them with us into this new year if we expect this year to be different. And this is a big sell. This is a hard deal for people to understand. Because we're talking here about things that we will not be able to discuss on Sundays as pastors preaching from the pulpit. I don't think people will be able to get this if they don't know our heart and they don't know the spirit of which we try to operate. So, as a family, we're very sensitive about any kind of dysfunction, that we don't bring it into our working relationship, we don't bring it into our homes. We're very sensitive about it because we know how uncomfortable and unsettling that that person that is dysfunctional and toxic can can cause even us. Right. It's it's um without giving too much away from the last episode, but it's a snake. Gotta be aware of them, Mary. And for the longest time I kept saying to our kids when they were younger, especially working with us, if I hear somebody's name too many times at the house that you're dealing with, right? Then I'm gonna have to take over from here.
SPEAKER_02Something's not right.
SPEAKER_01Something's wrong. Yes. You're not able to handle it. So I don't want to keep hearing that person's name over and over and over again, and you having a problem with it, because that means you're not resolving it. Right. Whether in your heart, your head, or physically, whatever it is. That's what dysfunctional people will do. They will just overwhelm you in your thoughts and in your heart, and they're always with you, and you're talking about them, you're complaining. You're obsessed over it. You're obsessed, you're praying about it. And then you're looking at yourself in the mirror. What could I do to rescue them? Make it make it right. And what we're realizing is there's some people that just don't want to be rescued, they want to stay uh snakes.
SPEAKER_03Right. And you know, something that we've we talk about too as a family, when that conversation is had, one of us will say, Well, have you dealt with it? If you have a difficult relationship with someone, have you dealt with it or have you just talked about it? Because what happens is when you just talk about it, you start feeling bad about what you talked about, and then you step right back into old patterns with that person. But if you've dealt with it, then you you have to either put up or shut up. And that's what we're gonna talk about is how to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And not just talk about it and be frustrated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And this is gonna be another hard one for us. So we uh actually, this episode is brought to you by Kleenex. Is it Kleenex? Because you just may need some. I have two pieces here, one for you and one for me, in the event things get uh uh too deep and so on. So there's yours, here's mine. I think we have a few from Ashley over here to my right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, John and Alan definitely have their box of Kleenex tissues. Here's here's a biblical example,
which I don't try to preach on this podcast much. Uh, I try to leave that for Sundays. But there is a biblical example of what Jesus did when he was dealing with dysfunction in Judas. Okay. Judas, as we know, was this betrayer. Yeah he he sold Jesus out for his own good. He was profiting from it. It was making him feel good. Anytime you think of the name Judas, you hear the name Judas. If you're uh you know anything about anything spiritual, scriptural, biblical, you immediately think betrayer.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Okay. A betrayer was somebody who didn't care about the person that he was betraying. He was only looking after himself.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_01His own self-interests, narcissists. Okay? He's around the table, Jesus is, he's having dinner with his disciples, and he starts putting it out there that somebody is going to betray me, and it's somebody here at this table that's actually dipping their bread in the wine that we are going to be drinking. And he says, Someone at the table is about to do that. Jesus knew who it was.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he did.
SPEAKER_01Alright? And guess what he didn't do? He didn't try to save them. No, he didn't try to rescue them. He simply said, Go and do what you gotta do.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Alright? That speaks to the person who's dealing with a toxic individual. Yeah. You gotta stop seeing yourself as their savior. That's it. First and foremost, stop seeing yourself as the one that's gonna fix them.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Stop seeing yourself as the one that is causing the trouble. They're the ones who are right. You're the one that's wrong, so evidently something's wrong with you. So if you fix it, they're going to love you, they're gonna embrace you, they're gonna come back, and everything's gonna be hunky-dory. Listen, Jesus even realized a person
who is intent on evil can't be fixed.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Can't rescue them.
SPEAKER_03No, you can't.
SPEAKER_01So the first thing, if you're going to deal with this, you you have to s realize that you are not their savior.
SPEAKER_03No. It's not your fault. It's not yours to fix. You cannot save them. The decision that you have to make to believe that, though, is the first thing, order of business. You have to believe that. When we say that in this podcast, we say that because we both personally know that that's true. Because there's been times in our lives with people, even, you know, people that we've known, not even people necessarily in our everyday life, but people, you know, you and I used to have a hero complex. Being pastors kind of lends itself to that, that somehow I'll be the missing link. I'll do something, I'll say something, I'll talk to them. And we're the ones who could save the day. And we realized probably at about year eight or nine in pastoring that we were not called to be heroes. We are not saviors.
SPEAKER_01I think I learned this just yesterday.
SPEAKER_03We keep still trying to learn it, but I'm talking about on the grand scale of things in the big picture that we aren't more compassionate than God. We aren't better counselors than God. Um, we aren't better healers than God. And when people don't want to get healed, when they don't want to have a conversation with the with God, when they don't want to do the right thing and they never seem to do the right thing, it is not on us, nor are we equipped to fix that in them. So we have to accept that first and foremost, because you have to lay down your cape when you think, oh, it's a sibling or it's a friend or or it's a husband or it's a wife or it's someone that is not living up to their end of the bargain at all in this relationship, that somehow something you're gonna do is gonna change that. The truth is, in some ways, I've had I had to look at myself and look in the mirror and say, that's pride. There's pride there.
SPEAKER_01There you go.
SPEAKER_03That makes me really think I have the power over this person in my life, that I'll smile right, I'll say something good, I'll I'll extend some kind of love token. And then it backfires because that's not the way it's designed to be. Good, healthy relationship comes with equal service to one another, equal repentance to one another, equal forgiveness to one another, and boundaries.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Healthy, solid boundaries that both can absolutely respect without even having to have a conversation about it. Right. Because normal, healthy people understand you just don't just come barging into someone's life and take something that's not yours. Right. Whether it's their emotions, whether it's their things, whether it's upsetting the environment. You know, you're having a beautiful day, it's the holidays, everything's going great, and here comes that person. And it's like they're bound and determined to wreck everybody's experience. Why are you letting them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You can't allow that. You have to back up and say, no, there's some boundaries. And the rest of us, we're all in unity and we're all in harmony. We're all sacrificing some things for the good of this experience. And that one person that's refusing to do it needs to feel that there's boundaries and that they can't cross them.
SPEAKER_01So the first thing you got to realize, though, is you cannot uh fix them. You can't rescue them. Nope. Stop being the martyr here thinking, okay, oh, if I can just do something, I'm gonna fix them. He's gonna love me more, I'm gonna be the hero.
SPEAKER_03You'll get in their storm and you won't get out.
SPEAKER_01You won't get out. You won't get out. It's that vortex, man. It just sucks you right in, which then means this. Um you're gonna have to put some distance between you
and that individual. That's right. And if it uh if you if you can do it physically, that's great. Uh you may be living with them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um if you are, then you can't physically put distance unless you're gonna take some real drastic steps to do so. But how about emotional distance? Can you give yourself some emotional distance from that person? So when they text you, why do you gotta respond?
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_01When they call you, why do you gotta answer?
SPEAKER_02You don't.
SPEAKER_01If they invite you to an event, why do you have to say yes? You don't have to put yourself in a position to where emotionally now you're being drawn back into their world. Help me out with that a little bit.
SPEAKER_03Well, I I have to just kind of compare over the years to our own story because your personality is one that you don't like to be manipulated. You don't like to feel like you're you're doing something for someone where there's strings attached. So if you can do it, you'll do it. If you can't, you can't. You're very cut and dry. Stephanie, our oldest daughter, has your personality. So in raising her, I realized in just kind of the way both of you approach relationships, is there's nothing hidden there. There's no agendas. So if you don't want to feel like this relationship is full of agendas where you feel hurt, you came with a pure heart, but this person has an agenda, then what you have to keep operating in is the mindset of there's no agenda here. If I, if you call me and you invite me in our relationship, there's a toxic nature to it. If I can go and it works with my schedule and I feel like it doesn't set us back, I'll go. If I feel at all like I'm in a situation with this person that it's troubled waters and I need to leave some distance, then I'm just gonna say no for the sake of creating a little distance. It doesn't work with my schedule. I can't go, I'm not mad. I'm just making sure these boundaries are in place really solidly. Because the thing, the thing about relationships that are vital, why they need to be healthy, Steve, and we have to have these rules in place, is because they affect every aspect of our lives. Yes. Those relationships affect the decisions we make. Sometimes, if it's a sibling, it could be the person you marry or not getting married, the relationships with your parents. There's so many facets to it why you have to be strong enough to set the boundary and know this isn't a good time for me to pick up the phone because I can tell the habitat, the environment, this happened yesterday, that happened the day before. Now my phone's ringing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'm not picking up the phone. I'm just going to help you help yourself and not be available. I'm going to take myself out of your crosshairs. There you go. Not because I'm mad at you, but I have to help you by helping me. Because I can't fix you, but I can fix me. So the way that I do that is I lost my phone. I can't find my phone. Don't lie. Just don't pick up the phone and don't feel like you have to give answers. I just have been very busy. I put my phone down for the day. I'm not answering phones. Don't make me feel guilty. You can't make me feel guilty because I didn't know you needed me. I mean, there has to be a process, especially for those of us who can be easily targeted and manipulated.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03There's always us.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_03Okay. There's always people like my personality that I'm an easy target because I want everybody to be happy with me. I want to have a good relationship with everyone. And I do have that area of ego and pride that thinks if I could just cast my Mary spell and be funny and sweet and fun, then I'm going to win them over. And I've watched your personality. You don't care who you please. You're a kind person. I don't mean it that way.
SPEAKER_01I do, but uh to people who receive it. That's right. I'm not going to, as they say, cast my pearls before a swine. That's right. Which you're not chasing athletes. I'm not going to take what is precious in me, my heart, to want to connect. I'm not going to cast that before a person that is going to use it for selfish means. That's right. I'm just, I'm not going to go there.
SPEAKER_03And you can see, you've had the ability to kind of see that naturally where I've had to work at that.
SPEAKER_01No, I I had to work at it. I had to grow into that. I think part of being a man was me saying, uh, even with other ministers, yeah. Okay. Who it would have been cool to say they were my friends.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it there was no friendship being reciprocated at all. It wasn't friendship at all. It was a pay-to-play kind of a thing. And I found myself, wait a minute, they don't value me. They value what I can do for them. They value what my money can do for them. So I had to sit back and say, nope, I'm not going to put myself in those environments. I don't care if uh, you know, it comes across like, wow, you you got you you're important, Steve, because you're hanging around important people.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01Heck no.
SPEAKER_03That's very true. You don't need that. You didn't, you don't like pay to play. You like equal deposits.
SPEAKER_01It's gotta become both ways. Service. Which then here's another thing. Which is healthy. Yes, it is healthy, Mary. That's how it should be. That's how it's supposed to be. You don't need somebody else's reputation to to build up your own profile. That's not right. That's using people. You're using somebody else to make you look better.
SPEAKER_03That's right. That's not right. No, and you then you invite trouble. Yes, you do. How do you do that?
SPEAKER_01Because it once that person burns out, you're gonna need somebody else. And you're always looking for somebody else to make you look better or feel better. Find this is what's so important here about talking about all of this, babe. Because so many people are insecure. So many people have been hurt. They're needing to hold on to someone else to make them feel better.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Even if it means paying the price of the pain, the shame that goes with being manipulated and abused by somebody else. So they stay connected to toxic people and they don't even realize it's toxic because they're in the vortex. They're in the middle of it. They're in the woods and they can't see the snakes all around them. That's just where they live. I promise you. There's healthy people out there, there's healthy environments out there that are not toxic, that are not manipulative. You get away from that toxicity and that manipulation, and you find good people, the 99 over here that are cool, that are healthy, you're gonna be quick to then go back and find the snake when you walk into the woods.
SPEAKER_02So good, yes.
SPEAKER_01Stay away from that ugly stuff, that dysfunction. And the longer you're away from it, then you're gonna realize wow, it feels so good to breathe this rarefied air of healthy people. No conflict and no strife.
SPEAKER_03That's that's abnormal and unnecessary.
SPEAKER_01You don't need that other stuff.
SPEAKER_03No, you don't. When you're at the tail end of a good day, and then all of a sudden it had to end bad because of that person that just does not understand boundaries and is hurting, and they keep the cycle and the patterns going. And until someone says, I'm getting off this ride.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I don't have to ride it.
SPEAKER_01If you don't get off
it, you don't distance yourself five years, 10 years down the road, 20 years down the road, you're gonna be looking at other people who've moved on and you're gonna resist.
SPEAKER_03Regret it and resent the person.
SPEAKER_01The person that you thought you loved so much you had to give them your life, and yes, you will regret it.
SPEAKER_03You'll regret it because you kept buying the ticket to the ride. You know, Steve, I have talked recently, because in the situation that my father passed, it's just so sad to me that I've talked to other women my age whose fathers passed very much the same way, died alone, alcohol abuse, drug abuse. And something that I'm very strong and firm about after what I've lived and learned with my father. And it's the good thing about it is you do become a snake spotter. I'm not perfect. I don't look at them, I don't think there's a snake everywhere, but I'm aware of when I sense it and the familiarity is there. And the one thing that I I try to say when it's when it's appropriate, don't give one more day to that pain. You get to decide I have given my own.
SPEAKER_01You didn't say the pain. No. Don't give one more day to that person.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Explain that because that was so powerful when I heard you say that, which really motivated this whole series.
SPEAKER_03Well, because there has been a lot of days given, wrapped up in that person's feelings and emotions and storms and dramas and conflict, where you've always got that precious daughter or sister or wife or someone that just goes along for the ride, thinking the whole way somehow they're gonna bring peace to this troubled heart. And they don't. I I don't know if I said it in the last podcast, but if I did, I'll say it again, thinking that something we're gonna turn that corner and there's gonna be equilibrium here. He's gonna see right. He's gonna say, Oh, you've you fought for me all this time and you were so good to me, and I've been so bad to you, and I got it now, and I'm gonna fix it. Meanwhile, that day never comes because that's not how the relationship has been set up. The relationship is one-sided. You just fed the dragon. So, what you have to determine is say, okay, what I'm doing ain't helping. As a matter of fact, this is hurting because I'm propping up terrible behavior that's only hurting me. It's not hurting this person, it's hurting me. So you have to decide, don't give that person one more day. I mean, today's the last day that you get to do that. That I am quick to answer your calls and I'm quick to, well, I've got to go bail them out, or I've got to have this battle, or I've got to be the one. No, I'm take me out of your story. This drama ends with you. Yeah. I am not your thelma to your Louise, okay? You're you're gonna go down, you're gonna go down all by yourself. I am not gonna be the one that continually plays into this and keeps this pattern going. Because if I am, then I'm a crutch and it's not helpful to me. And it's okay to say, I have a life too.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it is.
SPEAKER_03I have a future too, I have a promise too, and I'm sick of hiding my blessings because God's been good to me and I'm hiding them because I feel bad for you, because you're gonna get jealous.
SPEAKER_01This could go on and on. I remember this.
I remember this, Mary. A word that really hit us right smack in the face when we were dealing with it was the word codependent.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What people don't realize is if you stay around that influence that's hurting you, you are giving that influence permission to hurt you more.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They you you've actually, you're not helping them. No. You've become a codependent. They depend on. You to prop them up in their dysfunction. That's right. You don't realize that the best thing you can do for them is to bail. That's it. Let them come face to face with the reality of being alone the rest of their life. Sadly, they won't because there's somebody else that's going to come into their world. That's what it hurts the most, is when you see that. But you've got to walk away, distance yourself so that you're not a codependent, whether it's an alcoholic, a drug addict, whether it's somebody who just won't stop sleeping around and stay true to their moral values, whether it's an abuser with their words or with their sexuality, don't stay in an environment where that toxicity, that negative spirit, that judgmental spirit, don't stay in an environment because the longer you stay in it and don't distance yourself from it, you're giving them permission to stay the same.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_01Which then brings me to
this. Maybe what you need to do as you move away is stop feeling so guilty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_01Stop feeling so guilty that you want to be happy.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That that you want to be be healed, that you deserve a better life, and that it's better to be single and healthy than it is to be connected and yoked with someone and unhealthy and toxic.
SPEAKER_02No, it's better to be single.
SPEAKER_01Just walk away. It's not your mistake, it's not your fault. Okay. You're not the one responsible for their decisions. Some of you just need to give yourself permission to be healthy and happy.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Somebody says, Well, you deserve to be happy. No, you deserve to be healthy. And when you're healthy, you're going to be happy. Yes, you will. And healthy sometimes means I'm alone, away from this joker.
SPEAKER_03But man, I'm happy.
SPEAKER_01But I'm happy. Yes. And it's okay. You know, it's okay to be alone and be healthy.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And happiness is going to come. You're never going to be happy, though, when you're unhealthy in a toxic relationship.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01And so you're going to have to emotionally and mentally move away from it and then give yourself permission to be happy and healthy by saying, I'm not going to be guilty, feel guilty anymore. Do you remember feeling guilty about not reaching out to your dad when the holidays came?
SPEAKER_03Oh. Every Father's Day. Yeah. I uh what I would hear is a good daughter would reach out and call her father. Yeah. It's Father's Day Mary. And I would see Hallmark commercials and I'd see all these daddy-daughter imagery and oh, I should. And I will say this though: something that my sisters and I agreed to years on in this battle was we could not call the other one and say, hey, did you call dad?
SPEAKER_01Have you reached out to dad? We had to stop that.
SPEAKER_03We had to stop saying that because it immediately ramped up the guilt. Oh, did you call him? Yeah, I talked to him. And now I feel like a horrible daughter. Now he's mad at me because you called him and I didn't. And then all of a sudden the cycle just goes crazy. And for three days, I'm frozen and then I don't call at all. And then, okay, uh, you know, and you just it just heaps this feeling of condemnation and guilt. And now again, it's my fault. If I had called, maybe things would be better. So you don't ever get out of this perpetual cycle of guilt and then I'm mad. Well, I shouldn't have to call him because he didn't call me for my birthday. And well, I'm having this silent conversation and this battle with my father, who I still haven't heard his voice in a year.
SPEAKER_01But I'm still called you on your birthday, never sent a card on your birthday.
SPEAKER_03Never acknowledged my children. None of that. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01None of it. I don't want to go back to too much pain and I don't want to dump on your father. I I want, though, somebody to see how severe this was.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Because you guys tried over and over again. Over and over and over. To the point that, and this was a sadly, this was a
minister.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And this is why sometimes I just don't play. You're not going to mess around with ministry. If you're going to play games in the ministry, don't get in it. Okay. I'm not going to do that. But he's in a he's in a ministry night. He's at his uh sleeping facility after the evening. They tell him they're going to pick him up the next day to take him to the airport or whatever.
SPEAKER_03They left him a car to be able to drive out.
SPEAKER_01Drive out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um never happened.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_01Never drive. Nobody heard from him. Somebody's finally somebody went in, found him laid out on the ground. He had passed out because he was mixing alcohol and prescription drugs. Prescription drugs that he was addicted to. Yes. And then he ends up being hospitalized. And now the family rushes to him. His daughters rush to him. And your one of your sisters took him in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Opened the door again to a relationship thinking this is finally what's going to get him fixed. We're going to finally reach him. We're going to touch his heart. Everything's going to change. And then we were hoping. He was there for a few months.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was only there for 30 days. 30 days.
SPEAKER_03And then they had a baby monitor in the room because they had a little baby at the time. And they could hear him in there talking to his wife at the time terribly about them. Now they've taken him in. He's in a hospital bed in the room that they had cleared out from one of their children so that my dad could live with them. And they were basically helping him nurse himself after several months in the hospital where he almost died. And so they didn't want to.
SPEAKER_01But guilt y'all felt you had to rush in and rescue him.
SPEAKER_03We who else but us?
SPEAKER_01That's it. Who else but us?
SPEAKER_03There, your sister opens the door and he turned, they hear him in the other room saying horrible things about them and all of us, but them specifically. And my brother-in-law, God bless him, walked in and said, This far and no farther. Not one more day. And made him get his stuff and leave. Leave. And honestly, there were times I struggled with that. Yes. Like, was that the right thing? And whatever. Looking back now, I see that that being tough, all it did was get us all to a healthier place. It didn't get us to a less healthy place. Being strong and setting boundaries made us all healthier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03It really did. And it brought the healthy ones to a place of peace and unity because we were coming together saying, identify the unhealthy behavior, and none of us can allow it. We all have to say individually that we have a right to say what works for us. So my sisters and I, I say that to say, my sisters and I didn't come to agreement to kick that out. My sister had the right with her husband.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That was separate from mine and Martha's opinion. She had the right to step up and say, that does not work for me. We weren't working as a group anymore.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03We were working as individuals, embracing healthy behavior and rejecting unhealthy behavior.
Which then brings me to this. You have to ask yourself, what's the payoff here?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Why am I still in this relationship? Why do I still allow this person to treat me this way and hurt me? Why?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Because there's a payoff for them acting the way they do. Oh, yes. They're moving forward. There's something that makes them feel good, whatever that is, as sick as it is. Okay. There's a payoff there for them. What about for you? Why do you allow that toxic relationship to stay in your circle of influence when you're asking for a new year, uh, new bucket list opportunities that's going to make your year better, new experiences, a new diet, new workout routine, uh, new budgeting, new home, new car, new job, new career. You're asking for all this new to better your life, and then yet you're still holding on to something that's so old and hurtful.
SPEAKER_03That affects all of that.
SPEAKER_01That affects it all.
SPEAKER_03It all it affects all that because it affects you at your core.
SPEAKER_01So what's the payoff?
SPEAKER_03I think, and I I don't want anybody to okay. Here's the payoff in my mind. There's a part of us that we are naturally martyrs. And that bad behavior with that person, we can become so familiar with it that it's our excuse. It's our excuse not to do those things. We say we want them, we write the list, we we uh make our New Year's resolutions, and then I couldn't because I've been dealing with this all this time. So when do you say I want to be more committed to myself and the things I say I want to change in my life? And if that's what's got me locked up where I can't, then I've got to do the hard thing to really truly mean I'm gonna do these things I say I'm gonna do. Yeah. So I think that that at the end of it all, the reality is if we really strip it all away and we look deep in the mirror, I'm not a counselor, not a licensed one, but I do know from my own personal experience it's an excuse to not move forward. It's an excuse not to do the hard thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah because the hard thing is hard. It's very hard. And I'm sorry that you have to do it. If you're listening to us today, I'm sorry you have to put up these boundaries. I'm sorry that you have to walk away, uh, that you're struggling with the guilt, that you have to look inwardly and question why do I allow this person to do this to me? Yeah. I'm so sorry that you have to experience this. But this is big boy and girl real life issues that you got to contend with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01This is the real world. And um, I know that uh as I trust God and believe in God, that He sends people to bless me. And then I know their evil influence will send people to curse me and hurt me. And it's up to me to know the difference.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And there is a phrase that says you'll know them by their fruit. And if you look around and all you see is isolation, aloneness, broken relationships, broken marriages, um, nobody's healthy around them, if it's if it's if it's surrounded by brokenness, um, be careful that you don't yoke yourself up with that thing. It's not going to bring you any help, uh any help. So once you ask yourself what's the payoff, if you find that
there's some dysfunction and some hurt in you that that that gives way to the dysfunction and toxicity of somebody else to come into your life, then maybe your next step needs to be go see a counselor. Yes. Go find some more literature.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Uh, we're gonna try to put in the notes here of this uh a website that uh or an email that you could reach out to because we have some uh mental health coaches that we're working with within our Metro Life Church that could at least give you uh direction to some more professional counselors that could help you. I I would tell you, go download this book right now, five types of people who can ruin your life. It's written by Bill Edy, E D D Y. Um, identifying and dealing with narcissists, sociopaths, and other high conflict personalities. You may hear Mary and I talk about HCPs on occasion. Those are high conflict personalities. And one of the things that I love that I'll close with today, Mary, is that when you're listening to that book, they're gonna tell you don't confront the HCP, the conflicted toxic abuser. Don't confront him.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01Because if you confront them, then you become in the crosshairs of their uh instability, of their anger, their rage, their dysfunction, and their toxicity. Yes. Which means the crosshairs is if you're aiming at something, the perfect aim is right in the crosshairs. You don't want to be that person that now is um at the end of their gun that's gonna get all the forces of that uh anger and hurt because they'll come at you.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And so you can't think I'm gonna go at it and just tell them like it is and think that that's gonna be fixed. No, the broken person's gonna feel that rage and come at you even more, and it only causes you more pain. So you have to be um, oh gosh, I gotta be, I there's a thought going through my head, but I I can't say it because pastors and Christians don't talk this way, but just um just don't BS the BSer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01You you're not gonna you can't fight fire with fire here.
SPEAKER_02No, no.
SPEAKER_01You better be a little more wise at this one.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_01And sometimes it's best just to drop off the planet, have them lose your number, that's it, don't respond, move forward. Just even for a little while. Oh, I hope we've helped some people today.
SPEAKER_03I think we have.
SPEAKER_01This is not easy.
SPEAKER_03I know this would have helped me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So know that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, we're here to help in the best way we can. So thank you for joining us for another one of our really tough episodes, but it's a great way for you to start your year. Thanks for being with us for the family business with Steve and Mary Alesi.
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