HELP, My Kid Won't Behave! How to Discipline Your Children With Less Stress

Are you at your wit's end with a child who just won't listen? Does it mean that you're a bad parent - or are disobedience and emotional meltdowns just a natural part of a child's development? 

In this episode, Stephanie Alessi Muina and her husband Chris sit down with their mom, Mary Alessi,  to get some advice and help on the chaotic journey of raising young kids—giving you valuable strategies to use when when your child is pushing the limits and rejecting your authority.  We'll discuss why age-appropriate behavior isn’t the same as permissive parenting, and how proactive, loving discipline builds character (for both kids and parents).

You’ll hear practical wisdom on balancing different parenting styles, avoiding the trap of passive parenting, and the importance of showing kids grace—while never shying away from holding the line. 

This episode will encourage you to stay committed to your family's values, and raise kids that will thank you for giving them healthy and strong boundaries! 

Transcript

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Your child is stressed out because you're stressed out. And your. Your child is rude because you could be rude to me. And I've seen how you speak to me. Sure. And I. You're passing on to your. Your kids. Hello, and welcome to the family business with the Alessi's podcast. My name is Stephanie Less, and I am sitting here with two of my favorite people, I think. Really? I think so. I think it is. Yes. Besides my children. But we are here with, of course, my husband, Christopher Muna, and we are pretty much going to be interviewing my beautiful mother, Mary Alessi. Hello. On the topic of disciplining our children. Oh, Jesus, help us. The complex topic. It's going to be a very exciting conversation. I've been really. We were going to talk about this on our own, but we've only been parenting for four years. We only have two kids. We haven't really. We've. You haven't even gotten past the hardest parts yet or even touched them. You have a third on the way. We have a third on the way. So it's going to get crazy. But you've raised four really good kids. Oh, really good kids. Really good. And they were perfect. It was easy, simple. Piece of cake. Not one hurdle. And we thought we need to have you come in so we can actually talk to you about it and interview about. Interview you and ask you questions because this is a never ending journey we just started. I feel like we haven't even gotten to the hardest parts yet. And you have a whole lot of wisdom in this area of life that we definitely want to talk to you about and want to hear you share. Well, I would start off by saying this. You described it as exciting. This podcast is going to be enlightening because parenting is exhausting. Yes, it is. And raising kids, whatever the season is, it is exhausting. Yes, it is. And you guys have two toddlers. Really. Gia just turned four. She has turned four. Matthew's two and a half. I guess almost two and a half. Yeah. And amazing kids. You guys have done a great job. I tell you all the time, you're doing it right. You're doing it right. I try to encourage you. You have a third on the way. Yeah. And Matthew, your second is a handful. He is the Energizer Buzzy Bunny. He's into everything. He's buzzed and Bunny. He's everything. He is just a lot of fun. Yeah, he is. He never stops, he never ends. And it's a lot. So I think it's great. I'm honored that you want to talk to me and shoot your questions at me and let me see if I still have some insight and that all four of you didn't, like, ruin every brain cell in my head. No, I survived. You did. And, I mean, we're great kids. We had a wonderful childhood. Weren't perfect, which I'd love to talk to you about that, too, because there's seasons of parenting that are not perfect. But I think that what we are noticing is that with every year a child develops, there's a super, super sweet season and a sweet part of them and a part of them that has matured that you just fall in love with. Yeah. Then there's another part of their brain that has been unlocked that we don't even know how to navigate through. Sure. And we have our kids potty trained. Matthew. Not. Not yet. But he's right there. He's right there. Gia's potty trained. Gia is so independent. Matthew is such a sweet kid. They are obedient. They will say yes. They will go do what we tell them. But then right when you finally feel like you got it in the bag, a month passes, something happens. And now there's a new challenge where we are starting from scratch, where all we can do is look back on how our parents did it. Sure. And, I mean, we were kids, so we can't really remember all of it, but we try to implement a few of those lessons that we learned. So I think that's what's so interesting, is with every single, like, six months to a year, I would say there's a new challenge that presents itself with both kids at the same time. Like, you have your challenges with Matthew, who wants to run around. He wants to destroy. He wants to jump, he wants to get hurt. He wants to wrestle. Yeah. And then you have your challenges with Gia, who's a girl. She's four years old. She is understanding interpersonal relationships, and she doesn't want to make up and makeup and outfits and hair and all of it. So it's. And a lot of emotions on top of that. Yeah. So it's. It's a lot that we're having to navigate through, like, every six months to a year. Yeah. And the interesting thing is that you and I can. We probably. Very relatable to our audience. You know, probably a lot of our audience is in our same. Absolutely. Stage. But so we can tell funny stories and we can relate to them, but they really want to hear from Pastor Mary. It's true. Somebody who's gone through it. It's true. So. And also, there's a. There's kind of a shift in parenting where you had your generation that you raised your kids, and then you had the millennial generation that raised kids in a different way, probably a little bit more passively. And then you have now the Gen Z and the younger millennials that are looking at your generation and being like, I like the alchemist where you did it. It's very true. So there's a resurgence of your style or your generation's style of boomer parents. Yeah, it is. So a lot of the audience is in their, you know, young twenties, let's say. Yeah. And they're like, what does Pastor Mary have to say? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So us for the fun, and then you for the real nitty gritty. Yeah. Well, I will say that parents come to the table with different parenting styles based on how you were parented. And some moms and dads, you know, their. The home was just very loving and sweet, and your mom got down on one knee and spoke to you, and everything was kind and gentle. And the other parent might come from one that's a little bit more loud and bombastic and yelling and craziness. And the truth is, all those styles can blend together into one really great family experience for your children and husbands and wives, moms and dads, you just got to get on the same page because you are creating that dynamic for your home. Dad and I, when we started having kids, dad was just very strong, very disciplined. I was, if it's not fun, Chris is not going to enjoy it, and I'm not going to enjoy it. So everything had to be fun. Well, there's a balance to both. I had to stop always being the fun parent that never wanted to be the bad guy and rescue Chris from the discipline that he needed from his dad. But then dad had to also say, I need to lighten up a little bit, because what is driving this over the top? Discipline. And. And we've talked about this a lot on our family podcast, so you can go back and listen to all the stories that Steve and I have shared, even in our regret in those early days. So no one's perfect. No family's perfect. And your kids learn as much from your imperfections as they do from your discipline. That's true, I would say, for the young parent that's out there. You guys, for example, you're learning as much about yourself in this process, how you respond to stress, how you respond to pressure, how you respond to expectation, how you respond to disappointment when Gianna, who right now at 4, is not obeying you like you wanted her to, and now that she's older and she's very smart and can use her words, well, you are just aghast when she'll say something to you that you can't believe that she just said and talked back or refuse to listen. Now what do you do? Yeah. Yeah. So in those moments you are so frustrated and you said it. You. You go through those seasons where you go, okay, we got this in the bag. I think that's the mistake. If I look back on our parenting, that's the mindset mistake you make that you're going to somehow get it right. Get it. We got it down. We got it down. No, you said it. It moves on to something else. So you almost have to err on the side of being proactive. This. This is going to come and she's going to be disobedient. I see signs already that Ji is going to be a person that a child that needs more correction in this season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then how do we do that? And. And how did you practice your discernment in that? Because there's times where I will see, whoa. Gia just did something that was very mature for her age. And I got to catch that, and I got to put my foot down. And we gotta go to lengths to really discipline her. And then she'll do things where I'm like, wow, she's only four years old. Like, just turned four years old, fresh off of three, and there's still so much little baby in her that she's still learning. And I don't. But then I worry, well, am I then allowing that to prolong itself? Have I not put my foot down? Am I seeing her too much as a little baby girl when she's not a baby anymore? She's 4 years old, and, I mean, she's gonna go to school next year and they're not gonna treat her like a little baby. She's gonna have to catch up with all the other kids. So using that discernment, I've never really. I would. That would be probably be my first question. How did you use that discernment with us growing up? Well, I didn't. I didn't. I had moments where I was wrong or I missed it, or as some. I would say something to you. Let me use you as an example, because your personality was not the kind that was focused on being obedient. Okay. Yeah. You know, you do have those kids that are like, you can look at Them and this third baby coming might be that kid for you. Yeah. And the fourth and the fifth baby that you guys are going to have just could be the type that are. Are very quick to be obedient and you don't have to look at them twice. Lauren and Gabby were that way. Chris was that way. Yeah. So you were the one that was a little bit more challenging in that area. Ye. And I would have to get really, really strong most days with you. But what I also learned just through the processes of time is that other relationships or experiences would come along that would enforce that. So school does enforce that. You'll have the teacher come and tell you, Gianna didn't listen to me. And you, instead of getting defensive, you can say, she doesn't listen to me either. She doesn't want to listen to us. So the child doesn't become sort of the. What do they say? Like the main character. Yeah, yeah. You're working on her character. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where, as a young parent, it's so important not to put your kids on pedestals or overly protect them. Which is back to what you said. I think this new generation is going, my mom did that to me and I hated it. And it doesn't work. Yeah. So know that there are. There will be days where you've got to get really strong because you've seen it far too many times. Take instruction from older parents that call it out. Yeah. And be willing to go home and say that birthday party you wanted to go to. You're not going, you're not going. And. And learn how to. To know what gets your child's attention. And you don't know until you try different things. Yeah. And for somebody like her, the Bible says, spare the rod, spoil the child. And if you over spank, you're. You're. It's doing damage because it's not working. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, the fear of a spank. Yeah. The fear of getting in trouble to that degree is sometimes more impactful and useful than actual spanking. Yeah. But there are times where I would watch you guys when I'd finally give in. The last resort for me was spanking. I did. I was not a spanker. Yeah. But when I did it, you would always exhale and be like, almost like, thanks, Mom. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because kids love discipline. They love discipline. No. And I think maybe this happened to you too. But I realized that with toddlers, it's. You don't have to make big scenes every single time they do it. It's just consistent discipline. Right? So if they have a tantrum, I just have to consistently be on top of them. If they want to yell. No. If they yell because toddlers just scream for no reason, then it's more about consistency rather than making this huge scene and sitting them down in their room and having to have a huge spiel. Cause they don't understand that their attention span doesn't allow you to do that. And the consistency thing worked every single time. Picking him up if he's having a tantrum in the middle of the mall, taking him to the bathroom immediately, jumping on it within seconds, not waiting too long, or allowing the child to embarrass you while screaming in the middle of the mall, just jumping on it. Well, then we got past that with Gianna. Now she's great at the mall. Now she's great in a room of people. She's good with those things. Now the consistent type of discipline has turned into. We have to put our foot down and have a moment with her where we bring her into the room where we have a conversation with her where she hasn't listened to us after we had the conversation. So we've got to resort to a spanking or whatever. It is a discipline you can't go to because she loves school, she loves homeschooling. You can't go to the school today. So that's where the method changed on us overnight. And also a lot of times we have to be consistent in our discipline. But sometimes it's not lining up with her development. So one day it'll click for her and it'll just be like she's getting it. What happened? What was the difference? Nothing. She's just developed and how she understood it. And we've been consistent on her about a certain thing. It's true. Oh, that's a really good point. That's a really good point. And not getting frustrated. Because there's two ways to look at this, and we were talking about this earlier. Age appropriate and what's not age appropriate. What is allowed that you've tolerated. And I will tell you guys, one of the worst things that have happened to this past generation is passive parenting. To be passive and think they'll just grow out of it is they don't. There is an equal parts directing, redirecting, disciplining, zero tolerance. Some things will tolerate that. We won't. Teaching, instructing, loving, forgiving. Come here. You know, we resolved it. Let's go back, let's talk about what happened this morning. But you're A good girl. Look how good you respond. All those little things help them in their development as they're maturing. You know, it's like, okay, what got them to that place? Like you just said, was it my discipline or did she just grow out of that? Well, it was both, because we've all known four year olds that are horrible. Horrible because they're. That's right. And there's a balance between, okay, this is age appropriate. It's still age appropriate for her to get mad, throw herself on the ground with her princess dress on and her. Make her lipstick that she put on this morning and act like a baby. That's still appropriate. That's still age appropriate. But it is not age appropriate for her to continue to do that. You have to move her out of that because now she's going to be five, she's going to go to school, that season is going to change. And one of the, one of the best things I took from my mom that she took from her mom, because we all raised four kids that I pass down to you guys, and I've seen your mom be this way too, with the grandchildren, is you talk about the moments that you had to discipline. Later in the day, you bring it back up, hey, we had a hard morning, didn't we? You did not want to say hello to Lolo. You know, you didn't want to do that. Instead of asking a child why. Don't ask them why. They don't know why. They don't know why. That's true. Just say, that was a hard day for you. But you know what? I am really proud of you that before the day was over, you listened to daddy, you listened to mommy, because I didn't want to keep you from going to co op, going to school. I wanted you to go to school. And because you did that, you got to go to school. So I'm very proud of you. Those little conversations later in the day, when they're in more of a mindset to listen to it, sometimes that is even more of an impact in them because now it's, I was a good girl. Yeah. Yeah. And I know where, I know where the discipline lines are, where the boundaries are to be a good girl. Now the next day, she's gonna do it again. She's gonna do it again. Yeah. But that's okay. But then, like he said, one day it clicks and then she suddenly stops, Right? And it's like all of that hard work, it paid off. And I love what you mentioned there. I noticed that the second I Started to say, hey, Gia, do you know why Mommy gave you spanking? Yep. Because I love you. Mommy doesn't want to give you a spanking. I don't want to do that. But our family is kind. Our family is loving. Our family is respectful. That's right. And when you do those things, Mommy's proud of you. You're being a good girl. Right. And following up with all of those huge disciplinary actions with I did it because I love you, that I notice. They do. Click. They do. This is affirmation. That was interesting. I noticed that. Even Matthew, he's starting to understand. Okay, I get it wrong. Like, you were mad. You weren't just mad at me just to be mad. You were trying to teach me something. That's right. No, we can go on to the next topic. Well, I was going to ask you. You know, something that I do run into a lot with the other moms is we run into this fear of, like, well, if I let them do this too often, and the dads suffer from it, too, if I let my child continue to do this, continue to be disrespectful, then they're going to be a disrespectful teenager, and I don't want disrespectful teenagers. And where do you draw the line between age appropriateness and now? We got to push them and we got to put our foot down. Like, when is that? Okay, it's done. Yeah. Well, I will say that how they talk to you, how you let them talk to you, is how they'll talk to others. Disrespect starts in the home, plain and simple. Dad was a zero tolerance. You will not speak to me that way. Even when there were things. I didn't think y' all were being disrespectful. I just thought, even to this day, like, that is a zero tolerance. His mom and dad were that way. It's kind of an Italian thing. Like, you won't speak to me that way. And the truth is what I appreciate about that, my parents were that way, too. I mean, I would never have even been huffy around my mom or dad. No. Because my mom would feel my bad attitude. They never allowed us to come in and act like we were one of them. Like, we had a right to let our emotions show. We were not allowed to do that. Yeah. So even from the time I was five or six, I can remember my mother being the one that would say, oh, you're not coming in with that attitude. Go to your. Go upstairs. I. I'm I am controlling this environment. I'm cooking dinner. We are going to have a happy night. And you're coming down with that attitud. Dude, I didn't say anything. Oh, right there. There it is. Upstairs you go. Come back down when you're happy. Change your face and. Change your face. Fix your face. And I look back on that, and at the time, I thought that was in my little brain. How stupid is this? Fix my face. What does that even mean? But I learned what mom was teaching us and what we taught you guys is we can control those angry emotions. Because disrespect is born out of frustration and anger. Yeah. And when your parents. I'm not tolerating that. And at the same time, I'm teaching you how to respect yourself and how to respect your own emotions and not let your emotions dominate. Yeah. So you don't get to explode on anybody. Yeah. You don't get to kick the dog. No. This. You're not going to. To walk in a room ever thinking that your emotions are dominant. Yeah. Whether it's anger, saying what you want, being disrespectful in any way. That's not our home. That is not our dad doesn't talk like that. I don't talk like that. Exactly. No. It's huge. And we don't allow that. It's huge. And even the parents that are kind to each other, you notice it reflects in the kids. Absolutely. We don't respect. We don't disrespect each other. Yeah. Well, it's an example thing. Like, I notice whenever we are probably just arguing or in a disagreement, and if any lines were crossed, I'll notice that the kids get tense and weird. Sure. But then the second you and I start to really practice kindness and affection and we disagree in a cordial way. And we have to show them that. That, hey, mom and dad are okay. You know, we have to hug in front of them and show them exactly like we're okay. And so that they can see. Oh, okay. They raised their voices, but they're good. They still love each other. And it's. And then you tell Gia. Just like, we get angry at you and we have to spank you. We still love you. You know. That's right. And that they associate a moment of tenseness and anger isn't like. Okay. So like, in my family growing up, it was very dysfunctional on my father's perspective. From my father's perspective. My mom, thank God, was a rock and was very practical. She was a realist. So that overshadowed and kind of. It didn't just out. It just didn't balance that out. His kind of weird. Like, if I would watch my father emotionally punish my mother if she told him the truth and shut down, I would watch him just be. You know, he'd cut her off. Oh, gosh. And you don't realize how much of that is taught. Yeah, yeah. And it's so unhealthy. 100%. And there were times that my mother, you know, being married in the 50s and 60s and the 70s, you didn't ever go back to your daughters or your children and go, and, hey, let me just tell you something. What Dad's doing is wrong. Yeah. Yeah. You never brought that up because it was disrespectful and everything was just sort of siloed in the family. But over time, when my parents did reach that breaking point, mom was still respectful, but she taught us that just because that's what happened in their marriage, that was not normal. Oh, wow. So teaching. Teaching, teaching, instructing. I don't want that for you. Gosh. I know you love your dad. Our marriage was not good. He was a good father. Yeah. Yeah. But when it came to our relationship, dad would grow cold and shut me out if I said, it really bothers me that you don't take the garbage out. Oh, gosh. And he would. He would give her the cold shoulder. He was more like a woman in that way. Like stonewalling. Stonewalling. And then he. Before we had the term gaslighting. Yeah. He was a big old gaslighter. I bring that up because in some relationships, when the kids are small, that's a big untamed part of marriage that starts early on. And if you pick that up in your parents or your divorced parents or whatever, that comes out in your parenting. And here's the most effective way of thinking when you're raising your children the way that you were taught. If it was wrong, you got to relearn it for your kids because you'll pass it down so fast, man. No, I will see it in. In some of our married friends that there's no divorce in sight. They're good, but they're little dynamics. They're little personalities. Like, your child is stressed out because you're stressed out. Exactly. And your. Your child is rude because you could be rude to me. And I've seen how you speak to me. Sure. And I. You're passing on to your. Your kids, and. And I totally have noticed. Okay, what is the example? It's the biggest Wake up call to any parent, what example am I setting at home? Do they see me being kind when people walk through the door, am I being kind? That's the thing about being a parent. It's God's way of getting you to develop spiritually and to be a better person. Yeah. Yes. It's all designed. That's what marriage is designed for. That's what parenting is designed for. That's why I think God wants you to get married quick and start having kids and have a bunch of them. Because it's not. I say this all the time. It's not the type of couple that can have plenty of children. Yeah. It's the kind of couple you become because you had plenty of children that develops you into a different person. Well, when you get married, there's a certain dying of yourself that occurs because now your spouse is your number one. And then when you have kids with every kid, it just happens over and over again. I mean, we joke with you all the time. Like, we haven't seen our show in months. Yeah, that's true. We get to go to a restaurant that we want, you know, once every two or three weeks. I know. It's not complaining. It's just part of the process that God is kind of taking you through to put your kids first, put your spouse first. And, Chris, you know what's funny? As grandparents, you realize how you look back and you would give anything to have all the grandkids to take to Chick Fil A. Just us. So y' all can go. But you feel this pressure of, no, we've gotta be with our kids. They need us. And as you get older, you realize all those things you thought you wanted so bad you had to have, you only wanted them because you couldn't have them. Yeah, right. Then you can have a. Me and dad can go anywhere we want to eat, and we don't. Because, you know, you do become parents that become so dependent, the whole family unit. You got good at it. You know, me and dad joke. We're like, you gained these superpowers and now you have nowhere to use them. And you thoroughly enjoy. You thoroughly enjoy your kids. Like, why would I want to? I like going to restaurant with just you every once in a while. But I love it when we're all together and there's chaos and Matthew's, you know, throwing a banana across the restaurant. You're like, what just happened? That's kind of funny. Yeah, it's kind of crazy what he just did. Hey. And then the more you have and the inside jokes that you have as a family and the hilarious moments that nobody sees with everybody laughing in the car, that it's just God's way of saying, see this? This is what brings me glory. Yes. And, you know, something changed when I got better at mothering because it didn't come naturally to me. But then one day, it started to click because I genuinely enjoyed spending time with my kids, and they saw that come off me. Sure. Where I would rather just, you know, when my dad told me that, you know, something that can really change your marriage is when you show your husband that you would choose him over any of your girlfriends or anything. And when he actually sees you do that just once or twice, it makes him feel like a king. It's true. And he's not gonna really ask you to do that all the time. He just wants to know that you would. That you would be able to just rather be with your husband. It was the same thing that happened to the kids where they kind of saw, oh, mom genuinely loves being with me. Yes. I love being in your playroom and just hanging out with you. I'm not really good at the playing. I'm not gonna dress up as your prince. I'm not good at that, like. But I do love sitting there and laughing at you as you try to make a cake and you sing Happy Birthday three billion times and blow out the fake candles. I think it's just so great. I love taking you to restaurants. I love. Even if you're making a mess, we're having a good time and Mom's not stressed and Mom's not overwhelmed. I genuinely saw a change in my kids when they saw me change and they saw me enjoy time with my children and time with my family. Yeah, I think we can, too, when you explain. Okay, so I'll give you an example. The last night of the conference. I don't know if it was the last night of the conference. We just had. It was late, and dad went over to Gia and said, go ask Daddy and Mommy if you could come home and spend the night with us. Yes. Yes. And I'm thinking, he goes, I think I made a mess. I told Gia and she got all excited. Well, first of all, we were too tired for that. I know, because I was almost like, yeah, I'm down. You can go take them, because I want to go sleep. I know. We were all so tired. It was like 11 o' clock at night. And I'm like, why would you do that? She's got to go home. I mean, if you had said yes, we would have taken her. We would have been happy. But we wouldn't have even made it home. She would have been asleep in the car. Exactly. So we had a car party, not a PJ party. So we're standing there waiting, and she runs in to ask you, you were in the office. And I said, steve, he's gonna say, no, let's go. And he goes, okay, well, let's just see. And I was torn between, is he gonna feel bad if Gia can't go spend the night with us? Cause you want that so bad, but at the same time, you really don't. It's like this weird thing. It's just this bizarre thing. And Gabby comes out, and she said, go on home. She's not gonna spend the night with you. And she doesn't wanna walk out and tell you that. And so we got in the car, and I said, why would you stir that pot? It's so late. She's so tired. You make it hard for Chris and Stephanie if she has a meltdown. And he goes, I don't know. I just. I just miss her. I just love her. And I said, well, imagine how much more her mom and dad do, too. Oh, my gosh. And so that was it. We got in the car, we went home, and we got to the house, and I. We were getting ready for bed, and I said, aren't you glad Gia is not laying in the middle of our bed right now, kicking us? And he goes, no, I know, I know, I know. It was just cute. And so I went to bed thinking that night how precious that is. Yeah. For you guys, those moments when you have your children. Yeah. And it's precious for us, too, but they're not our kids. Yeah. Yeah. And you want to recreate sometimes those moments where you have your kids with you through your grandchildren, and those days will come. But for us, it's like. It's because you have raised such a great girl. And can I tell you, it is very cool to have this feeling of. My daughter is so cool. Yeah. I want you to enjoy that with her. She is actually so much fun at night. Matthew's a terror. I would not recommend. Well, remember, notice we didn't ask if we could take Matthew. We'll handle him at night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gianna is your girl's girl. Yeah. She is the best sleepover partner, the best makeup, hair, partner. Funniest kid. Oh, my gosh. She is just a ball of fun. She really is. I took her to get our nails done, and I Genuinely had a wonderful time with her. Great conversation. We were missing coffee. That's all we were missing. Yeah. And it's really, really cool when you're like, you know what? Yeah. Take her because she's so much fun. I want you to experience. I know how fun she is. Right. And it didn't stir the pot. I honestly forgot that that even happened. But Jordan Peterson says raise kids that other people like. Yeah. And you guys, your brother is doing it, too. You really are focusing on that. That's a great barometer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If other kids like you, other people like your kids, you're doing a good job. And I tell you both all the time, you're doing it right. You're doing it right. Because it's not overkill. You listen to both your parents. Yeah. You do. That's wisdom right there. Because, you know, we did it right. Not perfect. Your mom and dad did it right. You and your sister are awesome. Yeah. You did not ever give either one of your parents a minute of problem, rebellion, disrespect. You did it right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just copy that. You just do what they did. Yeah. It's not complicated. But what you have to remind yourself is it's not a one and done. The seasons change along with the discipline that you keep locked in. You don't. You don't ever, ever make the mistake of thinking, oh, we got it in the bag. Yeah. Because you don't. You don't. It is an ever evolving thing. They're changing, they're growing, they're developing. And then you've got to go back to, that's age appropriate. But I'm still going to correct it for the future. But I'm not going to be disappointed in that behavior because it's age appropriate. Yeah. Like the other day, Matthew, whose fault is this? We leave a ballpoint pen and he finds it and scribble scrabbles over all the furniture, which we still have to clean. Guess what? We have to discipline that. Yeah. And we have to tell him that is wrong. But we also have to be mindful of. Don't leave pins around. Yeah. You know, he's two. He's two and a half. That's age appropriate for a little boy. He thinks he's coloring. Look, look me. Look Mia. Look Mia. Yeah. You know, and that's a. An oak table. No. I don't even want to think about it. But that's not a fail as a parent. Yeah. Yeah. That's what two year olds do. Yeah. When. When left Ballpoint pens sitting around. Oh, my gosh. So that's. I think that's really the. When it comes to toddlers, as you get older with your children, fear does start to set in. Yeah. Because you have to start making choices that involve them being integrated into environments that are out of your control and are out of your purview. Then you've got to start balancing that. Helicopter parent. Yes. You know, how much am I hovering? How much do I let go? How much do I. And I do think that in this era of parenting, the permissive stuff got old quick. Yeah. Because it produced a terrible harvest. Nobody wants that anymore. Well, I'm finding more and more that our parenting style is really how we were parented. And thank God we both come from parents that parented us. Well, yeah. That's not always the case with some people. Like, I know my dad has. He's told us before that his dad never told him I love you, not once in his life. Wow. So when my dad had us, my sister and I, he was like, I'm not going to be that. I'm going to be the most affectionate dad. I'm going to tell my kids I love them. So he kind of. He broke that, and he was different. So even if you don't come from parents that were amazing, you can decide to do it differently. And you should, if you love your kids. You know, your dad is probably one of the funnest, most loving guys. And when you think that he didn't get that, it's sad, it's crazy. But the redemptive part of that is he became for you and for Matthew what he never had and your future children and his other grandsons, because he's got it. Look at how God gave him an opportunity to redeem what he, as a young man, as a son, never got. That he gets to give to the sons of his loins. How beautiful is that? And if we don't develop as parents, if we keep looking back and using our parents bad traits, bad parenting skills, we can leave that, we can forgive them, move on. And then some parents were just screamed and stressed out over their little kids, and they have kids that are just nervous wrecks all the time. Yeah. And if you were that kid and you know better, do better. Well, even if. Because I was raised by you guys, so I had wonderful parents, but I, as any adult, would remember the big disciplinary actions more than the small ones that I forgot about. And what happened to me was I started parenting and. And I. Because that was all I remembered. I started to apply big disciplines for every little thing. And then I realized, I don't think my parents did this. I'm just remembering the five times they had to do that over the course of my life, where you had to really put your foot down. There was a big conversation, there was a big spanking, whatever it is. But there were so many of you. There were so many of us. So I thought that's what my parents did every single time. No, you didn't. You spaced it out. You were discerning. You chose your moments. You chose the time and the place. And there was a lot of stuff you let go of, too. And now that I see my kids say silly things, do crazy things, it actually brings to memory some of this dumb stuff that I did that you guys just let go of. Well, you didn't let go of. You always had conversations, but you didn't make it such a huge deal. You didn't pin that to my character. You just knew that's age appropriate. It's age appropriate. She's going to get through that. We'll talk to her. We will work it out. But that's not who Stephanie is. She's going to develop. She's going to mature. And I'm glad you kind of gave us the room to figure that out, because if I didn't learn it from you, I learned it from my group of friends who were sick and tired of my attitude and sick and tired of my. My rebellious ways, and I would lose friends because of it. And I realized, oh, wow, that's what my parents were trying to tell me at 12 years old. So I think you also were very wise in the space you gave us to make some of those mistakes and to figure those things out, that I carried those lessons with me for the rest of my life. Well, I remember when Gia. I don't know if she was 18 months old. I don't think Matthew was born yet. And I think she had busted her front teeth. Yeah. Yeah. And Even for an 18 month, she was really almost like 3 years old. She's always been way ahead socially and emotionally. Yes. And she stopped eating. Remember that? I do. It was awful. And it was your first, really time up at bat with a very difficult moment, both of you. And she would not eat, and she'd lost weight, and you were freaking out, and she was just basically owning the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And saying what she would or would not do. And I remember you called me and she was in the background screaming, and you. What do I do, Mom? And I said, stephanie, yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember what I told you? I somewhat say it. You are the mother. Yeah. Take control. Yeah. She is not in control. You are in control. If you have to puree everything and get a syringe and shove it down her throat, do you want to be in the hospital? Because if you don't get water in her, if you don't get something in her. I remember this. Then you're going to have to go to the hospital. Yeah. And that's more traumatic than you guys holding her down and doing pureed and mashed potatoes in her mouth. That's what. And we did that. And that's exactly what you did. I didn't rush over there and say, give me my baby. Y' all don't know what you're doing. You were at a crossroads. I'd never dealt with a baby that knocked her teeth in. Oh, it was awful. It was terrible. But the two of you listened to wisdom over the phone. But the biggest part was you took control. You didn't let her dominate in control. And that was something that was pretty traumatizing and severe. But the way that you both handled that, mom and dad, and you overcame that moment, brought her a piece. Yeah. Because she was out of control. Yeah. She didn't know how to manage that moment. I would compare that and apply that as well to tantrums and moments when a child just emotionally spins out. Mom and dad need to calm down. Yeah. Take control. Yeah. Get your voice to a mid tone. Yep. Take control. Sit down, and don't let your child run the household with their tantrums. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't be that parent that says, we can't leave the house because we don't know what our kid's gonna do. Yeah. Are you kidding me? Yeah. They're not in charge. Yeah, you're in charge. You might have to go to battle. Dad may have to hold her down. Where you apply the medicine. Yeah. You might have to have some moments where you're really going to war. But what you end up with is a child that feels secure. Yeah. Because you just didn't let them do what was harmful for them that they don't know better anyway. That's why God gave us parents. Yeah. We had an interesting exchange, I think, like, two Sundays ago, which was kind of cool if I felt like it was kind of like a graduation moment where it was parenting and marriage clashed into one. Yeah. Matthew was with a bunch of other boys. They were all stealing each other's toys, fighting. I wasn't There for the majority of it, he was. And he saw Matthew was. He was being spicy, but he was actually being nice. And the boys were taking the toys from him. They were fighting. Matthew would go and bite to defend himself, and they would all get mad. I didn't see any of that. He was there for that. I walk in at peak conflict, and I just see Matthew biting another kid, right? So I run over and I. Within a second, because that's just what I'm used to. I grab Matthew, I give him, like, a little pop on the mouth, and I go, no, Matthew, don't do that. Do not bite. And he goes, steph, leave him alone. Yeah, he's defending himself. Let him be. Don't do that. He was trying to get the toy back. You haven't seen how all these boys have been on top of each other, right? Well, number one, I was embarrassed because my husband just called me out in front of everybody. There's nobody there. My brother was there. Oh, my gosh. I was like, okay. And then I was like, well, you can't. Are you letting him. This is what I'm thinking in my mind. Are you letting. Are you tolerating this bad behavior? But in my mind, I was like, stephanie, just back off. I think it's better just for you to back off here because Chris saw something you didn't, and even though you might be a little embarrassed with how he went about it, let this one go. Trust him with what he's doing. So I backed off. And then I also walked away from it. And I thought, don't make it such an emotional issue. It's not that big of a deal, right? And then I walked back in the room and I went, hey, don't correct me in front of everybody. Don't do that. And he goes, well, you didn't see all that happened. He was sorry to call you out. Like, we could do that in private more. But also, you didn't see what was going on. I'm like, yeah, you got it. You're right. Maybe correct me in private, and then we'll protect each other in public. Within 15 seconds, everything fixed, Right? Because I chose, back off. You don't know the whole situation, and trust your husband. Trust what he's doing, and then don't make it such a big deal. And I also had to tell you, like, you're right. I could have just pulled you aside and be like, hey, leave Matthew alone. Like, let him. Let him figure it out, you know, in another room. I shouldn't. Probably shouldn't have done that in front of your brother. Thanks. It was so embarrassing. Oh, my gosh. No, but it was. But it was honestly, like this moment of, oh, that was cool. We just navigated something just, you know, those things where it could have been a 10, because in the past, it's been a 10, of course. But you didn't let it go there because you've just decided to react differently. It was really, really cool how that clash. That could have been a big old fight on the way home about the child and about marriage, because one of us just backed off and trusted the other parent to intervene the way they wanted to intervene. Yeah. So much peace was made. And he'll even let me do that with Gia, where I'm like, no, I know girls. Yeah. Let me get strong here. Let me get on her. I've seen something in her that I don't like, and he backs off and lets me do it. To trust the other parent, when they sense that something is really off, is so healthy and builds up such a really healthy rapport and trust between the two of you to know when to dive in and when to just let it go and trust the parent to drive in that moment. That's very important, because there will be times where he'll be more lenient about something and you'll be more passionate and go, no way. And then it'll reverse. And somewhere later in their growing up, he'll be like, no way, Steph. No way. We're not. And you're like, oh, God, it's not that big a deal. But to him, it is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that happens. Yeah. I. I can remember when y' all were small, you guys being obnoxious or loud or disrespectful, whatever. I was a lot more tolerant of that. Hey, they're kids. Relax. They'll be fine. And I was good for dad because he. Everything was like, but the church people and performance and whatever. And he had to surrender that. Yeah. And. But when you guys got a little older and you were 12, 13, and. And dating, I was the huge mama bear. That's true. And he was like, oh, come on. Don't be so hard on them. Don't be so hard on them. What is wrong? This one's mine. Okay? This one's mine. And I was just very much more determined to be involved in that and making sure at night we were talking about things, and Dad's like, what's the big deal? You know? So that's. And that's okay. That's why God Gave us two parents. Yeah. And when you. When you do anything, parent, raise your kids, marriage, whatever, based on performance and what other people think, and I gotta have it, get it right. You're not learning about yourself. Yeah. And that's the thing about having a third baby. And even more than that, you do learn to surrender and let go. So true. Because now you're outnumbered. It's so true. And it really helps you become a better person, a better parent. Matthew biting once in a while, he's learning to stop. He was biting a lot. Yes, he was. And we all got strong. And he barely does that now. He's learning. It was age appropriate. But you didn't just let him keep biting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You stopped him from doing that. And so now if he does it out of a defensive posture, Dad's right there to see that and go, hey, what else has he got? These boys are bigger than him. They're all bigger than him. He has no other choice than to use his mouth. And you know what that says to Matthew? I know where the boundaries are, but my dad is on my side. So all those little things happen. You know, there's just so much in the landscape of parenting. No, and I think what you just said, there's. I think that's the missing link. We're making that because it's age appropriate. It's okay. It's normal. Right, but what. Okay, we have a ton of these black grasshoppers in our. In our backyard. They become huge yellow ones and they eat up your plants. Right. It is the normal time of the year for these black grasshoppers to arrive. That's normal. We're probably gonna now deal with that every single year. But our response needs to be get rid of them because they're only gonna get bigger and destroy your plants. That's right. So it's not a. Oh, it's just the time of the year. Let them go. Let them go. It's normal. That's what. That's what. That's what a. A backyard does. No, the response is to get rid of them. If you are growing roses in your backyard, they're going to produce thorns. But don't go and take off all the thorns. That needs to be. They're bad. They're going to hurt you. So it's the same thing with children. Yeah, it's age appropriate. It shouldn't throw you off your game when they do it. But our response has to be, stop it and discipline it and make sure that they learn. You cannot do that. We can't develop if you continue to bite. So it kind of like, even though it is normal, it's not to be accepted. Even though it's common, it's not to be permitted. It's a natural response for some children, most children. It doesn't make you a bad parent. Yes, we are all in this together, but you look at that and go, we gotta make that stop. Let's get together, all of us. You said to dad and I, hey, don't let Matthew bite. So that gave us freedom to really be able to speak to that instead of just being where we just ignore it because that's not our problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I would say for the young parent out there that feels overwhelmed and wonders why their two and three year old acts the way they do and feels so frustrated, like somehow they're making a mistake, take a deep breath because that's how two and three year olds act. You're not doing anything wrong. You just have to know how to navigate through this season. That's good with correcting, redirecting, loving. Discipline is love. Yeah. Strong discipline is love. Making up in the afternoon or at night, if you feel like you went too far, you got too upset, go back and fix it and love your child and tell them, hey, you know, we're just not going to do that. Tomorrow's a new day. Yeah. And work through it. And as long as you are having both those processes at the same time, where you are loving, you aren't permissive, you do punish, you do discipline all of the things in the family, you will raise amazing kids and have a wonderful family experience, which is. That's what it's all about. Yeah. It's to raise up these really fun families you enjoy being with. That's right. It's completely normal to lie in bed at night and be like, I think I went too far. Absolutely. I feel bad about that a handful of times. You know, it shouldn't be happening every week, but that's normal. You know, that's part of parenting every single. That's what makes you a dad. That's what makes you a mom. Is that nighttime? Ugh. I'm gonna. Tomorrow's a new day. I'm gonna do it better. And they'll wake up and completely forget about it. And you're like, okay, thank God. It's like they have amnesia every night when they go to bed. It's so true. Well, mom, thank you so much. This was so helpful to us and I know we have so much more to learn, but it's wonderful to just take a beat and to get some wisdom on where are we? Are we going down the right roads? Is this the right thing to do? Should we course correct? And this is it's all we we just need 45 minutes as parents to gain a bunch of wisdom and to know, okay, get back in there, get back in there. Take control of your home. Take control of your marriage. You have a partner for a reason. This is how God designed it, to not do it alone. And also he designed it in a way where we have wonderful parents to instruct us along the way. So thank you for doing that. We hope that you guys were blessed listening to this. If you were, put it in the comments. Share it with people that are young parents just like you that need this advice, that need this wisdom. Because we should not do it alone. We cannot do it it alone. And we need the wisdom from the parents that came before us to help us move forward in this generation. So I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Family Business with the Alessi's and we hope to see you again soon. Have a great day. Thanks so much for joining the Family Business today. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to follow or subscribe, share with a friend and leave us a review. We appreciate your support and can't wait to have you join us next time because family is everybody's business.