Better . Listen very carefully. A good martial artist does not become tense, but ready. Essentially at this point, the fight is over. So we pretty much flow with the goal . Who is worthy to be trusted with the secret to limit this power? I'm ready.
Speaker 2:I'm excited. Za . We have an apparel sponsor, Perry Athletic. Such good gear. It's incredible. I've been enjoying it, bro . George came through, messaged us on the Instagram, said he is been following our program for ages. He's getting stronger and more mobile and he's got this cool gear company called Perry and he wants to send us some stuff. And he told me that his mission was to create the best pair of training shorts ever. Yeah. He wanted something that he could lift and roll in that could accommodate thick, muscular thighs and hips. And that suits us, speaks to us Also, what I like is I love the colorful design. It actually looks really cool. I am the most colorful dude on the mats these days. Hands down. Yeah. You get that kind of expression. Feel A lot of other juujitsu gear is kind of a bit boring. Yeah. It's all like grays and blacks and. This stuff is the color and the vibrancy. It makes you stand out. The thing that I've loved about it is just, it feels good. It feels good. It looks good. And you ladies and gentlemen can get a discount if you go to perry athletics.com when you go to check out , put in the code Bulletproof 20 and you get 20% off. Oh yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Bulletproof for B J J Podcast. Who is the most influential person in B J J in the history of the art? Wow. It's a big question and it'll be a big statement. I have reached a controversial conclusion, which I will not state at the start to spoil the whole episode. God guys. You actually gotta listen to this one. You're gonna have to listen to the end. I'm not gonna give you the answer. Straight up. People are just on that. Fast forward about 15, 15, 15, 15 . Reveal. Reveal. I haven't thought about this by the way . JT brought this topic this morning. I'm like, all right , all right . I got instantly got some ideas. Let's get organic. I think I know what time it is, but let's, let's go there. Yeah . Because I think a lot of people will say, well, where did it originate? Like where did it come from? Master Elio . Yeah. A lot of , A lot of people. I mean , I'm not saying it originated there . No dis originators. He's credited with a lot. Like the Gracie family gets a lot of credit. Yep . Fair. Because they did do a lot. Yep . Even though there were many other people who helped grow the art, develop it . Yep . But I'm saying influential. So what do I mean when I say this? Who has had the biggest influence on culture in general to spread Jiujitsu? That's what I'm talking about. Right. Not just, oh , that guy Kimora invented a technique. You know, not that, I mean, who has had the biggest impact on driving jiujitsu worldwide? That's what I'm talking about. Okay. So sure . First cab off the rank. Some people will say Ilio Gracie. Right ? Yep . And we can go through the Gracie family, you know, we can hoist Gracie maybe is up there. Right ? Because here's the thing . For some of you guys that may not be familiar, the first exposure I ever had to Brazil jiujitsu, even though I didn't know that that's what it was, was the early U F C tapes. I think that's for a lot of guys. Our age generation . That was the one generation . Yeah. He's like, oh bro, who's this skinny dude in the pajamas submitting Dan Severn? Or Yeah . You know, you're like, what? He's getting bashed and he pulls out the wind or Yeah . You know, like he was phenomenal. And really, I think that really injected the idea of B J J as an effective form of fighting to a a , a first world western audience. Yep . Even though people were obviously aware of it in Brazil and which was their goal with it, wasn't it? Yeah . That was the plan. Yeah . Yeah . There was a kind of like a marketing strategy Cool strategy. Cool. And then I'm gonna jump to the side and go, well, you could look at a guy like Carlos Gracie Jr . Carlinos , who is like one of the, was that one of the heads of , uh, Gracie Baja , but then he founded the I B J J F . Right. It's pretty instrumental. Right? Like he, the first federated comps, which didn't happen till I think 96, even though there was Brazilian jiujitsu before that, that's where you started having world champions. That's where you started having Pan Americans. You know? And that is still, to this day, I think the largest competition format and international governing body there is Right. In this game. Yep . In the game as it speaks as we speak. But then other people might be like, well, what about the Machado brothers? Yeah . Well, no, no, no. Because you've gotta say that. If you didn't have, I mean, no disrespect to the Machado brothers. <laugh> Joe's like, right . But Joe's like, man , I'm just guessing half the listeners are like, who? Who? No, no, no, but you've got a But let's, let's follow me in this thinking, if you didn't have the micha , if the Machado brothers didn't move to the US you wouldn't have an Eddie Bravo. Right. If you didn't have Eddie Bravo, you wouldn't have Joe Rogan . Ooh . Oh . So think about the influence on this. How influential is Joe Rogan? Because if we think about, but just on that, how far back do you go? 'cause you're like, well, if you didn't have Carlos and Higgin's mother <laugh> , then they never would've been born. So she's the most influential <laugh> , right ? No, no , no . I can , I can, but I'm saying that they didn't do Jiujitsu. So I , what I'm saying is Oh yeah , she did . If we look of the , if we think of the Jiujitsu web Yeah . Because some people are , some people, it depends on what they think is important. Yeah . From your perspective, Joe, do you have people who, who you feel are influential in, well, Rogan, as you just touched, I think he's a huge one, purely because of his reach and the , and the fact that, you know, he's , he's a Jits guy and he talks about Jits all the time . He always talks about basically the same five things all the time. <laugh> , government control. Yep . Bow hunting. Bow hunting, nice baths, juujitsu, juujitsu. Yep . Um , and stem cells, <laugh> . Mushrooms. Mushrooms. So in that way, I'm like, well, no one else has just had that conversation to as many people as Rogan has. You know, instantly, when you're talking about influential the big players in the game, I think, oh, Gordon Ryan, like, he's got a lot of influence. But you know, in , when you, when you start to go into it , you're like, well, actually he doesn't influence anybody that's not in Juujitsu. Yes. He's just influential within this world right now. Sure. But he doesn't ex I don't think he expands the world. No, I , I , no, I think he has to a certain extent. I actually had a guy ask me, <laugh> , it's so funny. Some dude on a job site said, what do you think of that big Jack Guy with the beard? Who does Juujitsu <laugh> ? And I was like, do you mean Gordon Ryan ? He's like, yeah, I think that's the guy. He's like, pretty jacked and he's got a beard. And I'm like, I think this guy, like who could be the, the , the, okay, so he grew it by one who could be the con <laugh> who could be the Conor McGregor of No, I think he Yeah, sure . Brings some people in. He has like, you know, I wouldn't say Conor McGregor was the most influential person in, in M M A , but he definitely had an impact to, to make sure get more eyes eyeballs on it. Right. Well, you , you could go, well maybe John Danaher, because how many guys have come under John Danaher, G s P trained jujitsu under John Danaher, he's considered to be one of the greatest m m a fighters of all time. Right. Yeah. But was he, I mean he probably , he would've found Jiujitsu if it had without Danaher. He , us the Har was his coach too. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. But for us it's also under Danaher . So he is Right. So what I'm saying is Craig Jones, I would say, actually I was having this conversation, think of, you know, as much as I throw a lot of shade on Craig, I got respect for Craig. Um , think of all the guys he's lost to, are they as influential as him? No. Do you know what I mean? This is what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about how achieved are they in , in competition. 'cause Craig has obviously beaten a lot of guys Right. To be where he is. He's also lost to some really good guys as well. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . But are they as influential as him? No, they're not. No . Why? Because he's a marketing genius. He's a Yeah. And, and the marketing and the reach is, I think, as important as anything else. Well, I think it's, I mean it's probably, if we take Joe Rogan Yeah. You know, nothing of his juujitsu, you know nothing about his relationship with it. He just tells people about it. Yeah. And so it's all, I believe it's all reach his advocacy. Like Yeah. So when you're talking about athletes and stuff, it doesn't matter. It's like you had the conversation about Jiujitsu being great with 10 people. I have it with a million people per month. Yeah. And it's like, well that's how do you, how like that surely has to be the greatest impact on growth. Well, I'm gonna, alright , well let's, let's, let's stay on the track. Yeah , let's stay on the track. I got some , I mean, surely I got something for you guys. Well, for a while I thought one of the most influential people was Fabio Gelle because he has produced the most world champions of any coach, which is Undisputable Check Matt . Right. Check match. Yeah. The guys who started that team, they were originally alliance. Right Now you could say that Fabio's tight-fisted control over not letting his competition team do what they want resulted in a split. But all is Chick match . Vira brothers, Vira brothers. So they were with Fabio originally. Yeah. And you can't talk to him about it. Yeah. Right. Because I love Leo Vira , right? Yeah. And I actually, he taught me, I went to one of his classes once in re , Leah Vira was the , in my opinion, probably one of the greatest passes in the history of passing you just his style. The Cartwheel pass. That's his pass. Right. The risky back take . That's the, that's the Leah Vira back take . Yeah. Okay . That's what it was called. Right. 'cause he would do it in comp . Oh , the one. Yeah . Yeah. Right. So, but a lot of people don't get that Escher comes out of check match . Like, if it wasn't for, you know, if you extend out the web, if it wasn't for Fabio Gagel building what he built, you wouldn't think of how many great champions. Right. How many schools have come off the back of not just alliance, like just his influence. It's huge. This is what I wanted to say. I mean, it is, it is. It's, it's, it's big in Jiujitsu. Right. But, you know, you ask, you ask the standard like white belt practitioner, like, do you know who Fabio is ? No. Probably not in the English speaking world anyway. Right . Yeah . In Brazil, he's, he's a , he's still considered to be a , a massive celebrity. Yeah . And if you watch his fight with Mark Hunt, and that's what I was saying, like, but you know, I'm not talking about Kiwi Mark Hunt. I'm talking about, oh , Mark Kerr . Sorry. Mark Smashing Machine Kerr in his prime. It's a brutal fight. And, and part of the reason why , uh, Fabio got so famous was he didn't give up. And he's getting head butted in close guard . Like it's, and he's trying to fight. But Mark just keeps taking him down and just wailing on him. The the corner ends up throwing the towel in 'cause he's covered in blood. It's a pretty brutal fight. And that's how he got the name. All , all of the Smashing machines fights were, Hey , oh God. And that's, and that's very early. You've never seen that. Watch that Doco , the Smashing Machine Machine find on YouTube Mad . It's phenomenal. But I'm gonna say something here. I only thought that because I was heavily influenced at that time by him. And I've stepped back, and this was brought to my attention more recently by a book called , uh, the Psychology of Money, which is actually in an older book that's been re popularized. Funny thing is, I bought it probably a month ago and kind of been chipping away at it . Joe has the same book, <laugh> Jo Jill's , like, have you read, have you heard of this book? And then I was like, this book right here, it's in my bag , <laugh> . Total fluke. There was no coordination on that. But th this is what got me thinking about it. Two guys who are still bad at managing money. <laugh> tip from the top. Oh , we're trying to get better. Yeah. Um, Morgan Hasell is the author and the, the author says that there's eight incredibly influential people in the history of modern society, that if these people didn't exist, the world would look totally different. Right. And these people are completely unrelated. And I thought, oh , that's really interesting. When you go back and you look at world events, it also talks about the eight most influential , uh, events in the economy and why the world is the way it is and economic structures, blah, blah, blah. So this got me thinking about Jiujitsu. And I have a , a interesting idea for you people. The single most influential person in BJJ is Dana White. Oh. Oh , uncle Dana. Jesus. Why? How think this, the U F C was failing, right? They brought Dana in. Dana was doing boxing promotion. The , he knew the Fertita brothers. The thing that saved the U F C was the ultimate fighter. Dana was actually instrumental in making that happen. Yeah . Now this is right at the start of the reality TV thing. But they will tell you that before that they were gonna go bankrupt. And they were like, we're putting, we're putting our last kind of couple hundred thousand into this show because this is our last shot. And Dana's will and drive to make the U f C more financially successful or commercially accepted. That the Ultimate Fighter did that. And it was very much off the back of his personality and his drive as a promoter to drive the whole thing. This is my conjecture without Dana White. You have no Joe Rogan. Oh , Joe Rogan is only as influential as, he's the mother of Joe Rogan. He's <laugh>. Right. And you have to say, and this is what I've seen. People are only really as interested in Juujitsu now because of the success of the U ffc . It's where you get to see the effectiveness of Jiujitsu, or not effectiveness of Jiujitsu. The reason why it's in the culture of the common man who's at the t at yelling at the tv , stand them up , <laugh> , you know , like they're not doing anything. God , why are they lying on each other? Why is he wrapping his legs around his face? Yeah . Yay . Yay <laugh> . Yeah. Right. Like, but the reason why I'm saying this is because the amount of conversation I have with people who don't train Jiujitsu, who are like, oh yeah, jiujitsu, I've seen that in the U F C . That is the conversation. The only reason I feel, I mean now obviously it's grown in different parts, but the explosive growth in Juujitsu is directly correlated to the explosive growth in the U F C . The I B J J F are not putting the money into the marketing. The U F C are, they don't have the budget. They don't, I mean, they're incredibly wealthy, but no one's putting hundreds of millions of dollars into trying to get it on TVs around the world. The most influential or the most popular sport right now is M M A . The U F C is the number one thing. And Dana White, even though he probably hates <laugh> jujitsu, he is the reason why Jiujitsu is as widespread as it is. That is my statement. Mm . Push back on me, Joe. Push back. Yeah . Okay. So I'm , I'm looking for holes . Right. So I , um, you can't, it's conceptual <laugh>, I mean, yeah. So a lot of me agrees with it, however. Okay. So there's a couple of things there for us to explore please, or unpack if you will. The, the first thing is, the first thing is the U F C being pivotal in Joe Rogan's success. Hmm . That's the first, the first part of that, so is obviously a part of Joe Rogan , but let's say in an alternate reality that the U F C never existed and Rogan , uh, never got that job Right. But let's say Rogan, is there an alternate reality where he still becomes the greatest podcaster in the world without having had the gig on the U F C ? Maybe. Maybe. Right? Maybe . But , but , but think of his avenue, right? He was on Fear Factor. Yeah. He was training martial arts and he was doing whatever. He was in entertainment unquestionably. But what is the leverage of Joe Rogan? Initially it was he has access to fighters right now that didn't matter in the start. His podcast was not that popular. And comedians , comedians were the first cab off the rank. Yeah, definitely. But if you look at the quality of his podcast, in the early days, it wasn't that great. But as he started to get greater notoriety as u ffc rose, the cachet of hanging out with fighters became cooler. Right. That's , this is true. Like having interviews, I mean Yeah. He got, yeah, he got like access to all these Yeah. Unprecedented access. Un but, you know, but yeah, of course. Like I see, I think I get your point, but I'm still thinking there's an argument there that Rogan still becomes Rogan in the absence of the U F C , but does Juujitsu still become popular? Well, so then is juujitsu relevant if there's no U F C ? Yeah . So then that's, that's the next question. Does Jiujitsu need, or did it need the U F C to become what it is? Yes, a hundred percent. So if I try and shoot a hole in that, 'cause I think I agree with it. I think I , I I do agree, but here's where I'm, I'm like , uh, U F C popularized it to an extent. However, the most popular form of jiujitsu is the GI still. And the U F C has no part in that. U F C is like, you know what I mean? No, but that's, but I think this is where it's two separate things. The people doing Jiujitsu in the cage had to start somewhere. Right now in the most modern era of , uh, m m A, they're not training in the gee , but everybody who started in the oc started in the gee . That's, it's what you had to do. You had to learn jitsu via the gee right way . Yeah . So just because what is the most popular part of jujitsu that it doesn't matter that that's irrelevant. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah . Do I don't think that's, that's what it is. Yeah. Fair. I take that point. Keep shooting them holes. Okay. So then, so then I'm still thinking, well, what I'm having a hard time reconciling and I'm trying to be the voice of the people here, is, is it still not Joe Rogan that's the most influential because of what he did? U F C and black belt and all that? Is Joe Rogan the guy? No, because, well , why is it not Dana's mom ? <laugh>? Maybe . Maybe . Maybe. Joe's just taken my paradigm . Let's get her off the show . Yeah . I've gone met her . Oh my God. S Dana's mom punching his dad back and encouraging him to do boxing that fled him on this M c u alternate timeline. No . Look, the reason why I say Dana is this is because why was boxing? Why was, 'cause you could say this about boxing that possibly, even though he's one of the most evil characters ever, Don King helped popularize and drive heavyweight boxing. Like boxing's always been popular since, since time since it became a sport, right? Yeah . It's like two guys fighting. Who wins? Who's, who's the baddest man Don King to make fights like, you know, Mo Rumble in the jungle, you know, thriller in Manila. Like he was the marketer, he was the front man. He was as much a personality as anyone, even though he was a total vulture and he screwed over fighters. Yeah . Dana White is the Don King of m m a . Why is the u f C more popular than boxing? Boxing makes more money. Like Yeah , it's more popular because you've got an opinionated loud mouth ignorant mother telling you what to think. <laugh> <laugh> , you know, I to the side gig? Yeah . My side gig. I'm the new Dana White . No, I I, Dana doesn't love Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I'm saying it is a byproduct of what he does for him to make money, to make his, to make his organization the dominant thing that it is inadvertently, even though he loves boxing, he doesn't really love Jiujitsu at all. He has made jujitsu insanely popular. And if you look at the U S C model, this is the same model that now Moja Sim is taking for the A D C C . Oh , how so? Well, no, it's this idea of having a big tournament, like a Super Bowl , a big event that brings all the eyeballs and the sponsors and it's, it's this commercialization and Yeah. You know what I mean? So that's what I'm saying. I mean that's just like going for like major league sport kind of major league sports. But I'm saying that , uh, Dana White and the ufc , obviously the Tita brothers are key because they financed the whole thing. Yeah . But he was the face. And so if you think about who is the most famous person in the U F C , other than Joe Rogan, people would just say Dana, he's, he's, yeah , he's the face of the U F C . He's the face of the U F C . Yeah . So anyway, that's what I'm saying. I know a lot of people will get upset and disagree with me. And I'm not saying this 'cause I like Dana White and I'm not saying it's 'cause I love U ffc . I sat and thought about this for over a week now and I honestly doing the real work out <laugh> . I'm telling you J Tim , we've got a lot of to Got it. <laugh> busy week. Yeah . Busy. I'm week emails Dana Rogan. It's that clip of Jay Cutler zooming in on Jay Cutler's tan face with a little meme <laugh> . No , I just Dana all along. No <laugh> . No , I mean it's like no's Zach , you know the Gcas gals , well , all the math quite kandal enough . Al you shall not solve the equation. No <laugh> . I am doing the math on how does the Jiujitsu get so popular? Because even Jiujitsu guys can't explain to you. They're like, I've got a school in the middle of nowhere and I'm got a hundred students . Just to clarify, you are saying then that on this, that you are attributing the Joe because if I think if we went to some gym Yeah . And there's a hundred students, we said Joe Rogan effect. Tell us how you what go and I , I think , uh, Moore would say Rogan than would say U F C I don't agree. I would, but, but, but go with me on this. Let's say they did, would you attribute the Joe Rogan ticks to the U F C ? Because of course, of course. It's all about attribution. Of course it is. But, but what I'd say is there are plenty of people who will say Rogan, but I would say the U f C , more people know about the U F C than know about Rogan. 'cause not everyone listens to podcasts. I don't know . But how many, dude, what are you talking about? How many people watch the U F C every month? Hundreds of millions of people. Yeah , but how many people download Rogan's podcast? Not as many people. Podcasts are smaller than the U F C . Okay . That's why the UFC's worth billions. Joe Rogan's not worth billions. He's worth hundreds of millions. Fair . Like if, if Joe Rogan was literally as an individual. But Dana White makes $220 million a year. He's making more than Rogan. Well, he's, yeah, he's also selling tickets to the event. Rogan just puts out a free show. But that's what I'm, but it's not, it's not a free show . Spotify Joe leaving money on the table, quite frankly . No, but, but if Joe Rogan was more influential than the U F C , then we , we would know it. But that's not true. There are more people who know about the U F C than know about Rogan. Even though he's associated podcasting is not that big. It could be way bigger. Yeah. It's it's in its infancy still. Yeah. He might go down as the goat, but right now, I, I would say we can check it. We can check it. Yeah . We'll come back to you guys after a fact. Check on that one. No , it's not even fact check . I have put this idea why we're on a good story, <laugh> mate . Don't spoil a good yarn with facts. All right . Just get on board with the concept. Let me tell you what to think . Don't get creative on me here , people. No, I , I'm serious. I'm , like I said, I'm not saying this 'cause I'm a fan. I think Dana White is a vulture and he's not good to fighters. But we as Jiujitsu people cannot get away from the fact that Brazilian jiujitsu has piggybacked off the success of the U F C . And the reason why someone who doesn't train Jiujitsu talks about it is because their favorite striker lost to a guy who got, you know, submitted them . Yeah. Right . It's , it's , it is in the public consciousness because of that big machine. And therefore Dana White is the most influential person. Give us your thoughts on that one. Guys sound out in the comments. Would love to , uh, would love to hear what you think. Sure .