{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":1.68,"endTime":2.19,"body":"All right, guys."},{"startTime":2.19,"endTime":2.7,"body":"You ready to go?"},{"startTime":3.42,"endTime":3.78,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":3.81,"endTime":4.11,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":5.28,"endTime":6.09,"body":"Well, hi everyone."},{"startTime":6.18,"endTime":11.28,"body":"I'm Brian, most SVP of retail strategy at"},{"startTime":6.18,"endTime":11.28,"body":"and former VP of supply chain at Walmart."},{"startTime":12.41,"endTime":13.4,"body":"And I'm Don Davis."},{"startTime":13.43,"endTime":15.98,"body":"I'm the senior vice president of"},{"startTime":13.43,"endTime":15.98,"body":"carrier strategy here at nice shacks"},{"startTime":16.01,"endTime":17.69,"body":"and former executive of Hapag-Lloyd."},{"startTime":17.69,"endTime":18.71,"body":"And CMACGM"},{"startTime":19.13,"endTime":24.11,"body":"we're back again today with our podcast"},{"startTime":19.13,"endTime":24.11,"body":"supply chain secrets, Don and I are"},{"startTime":24.11,"endTime":25.73,"body":"really excited to announce today."},{"startTime":25.73,"endTime":27.92,"body":"We have our very first guest on the show."},{"startTime":28.335,"endTime":28.665,"body":"Mr."},{"startTime":28.665,"endTime":33.165,"body":"Lars Jensen, who is certainly no stranger"},{"startTime":28.665,"endTime":33.165,"body":"to many in the supply chain industry."},{"startTime":33.525,"endTime":37.665,"body":"He's a leading expert in container"},{"startTime":33.525,"endTime":37.665,"body":"shipping and specializes in combining"},{"startTime":37.665,"endTime":41.085,"body":"analytics skills, in-depth knowledge"},{"startTime":37.665,"endTime":41.085,"body":"and container shipping industry"},{"startTime":41.085,"endTime":43.845,"body":"knowledge and his management experience."},{"startTime":44.325,"endTime":48.375,"body":"He's often used as an expert speaker"},{"startTime":44.325,"endTime":48.375,"body":"at international shipping conferences,"},{"startTime":48.375,"endTime":52.425,"body":"as well as private engagements,"},{"startTime":48.375,"endTime":52.425,"body":"focusing on clients that want updated"},{"startTime":52.425,"endTime":54.495,"body":"information on market developments."},{"startTime":55.065,"endTime":56.265,"body":"Lars, welcome to the program."},{"startTime":57.315,"endTime":58.695,"body":"Thank you so much for inviting"},{"startTime":58.695,"endTime":58.905,"body":"me."},{"startTime":59.235,"endTime":59.985,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":60.525,"endTime":62.885,"body":"So today we want to do something"},{"startTime":60.525,"endTime":62.885,"body":"a little bit different."},{"startTime":62.945,"endTime":66.875,"body":"We'd love to once in a while,"},{"startTime":62.945,"endTime":66.875,"body":"talk about current events or"},{"startTime":66.875,"endTime":68.315,"body":"headlines that are in the news."},{"startTime":68.315,"endTime":72.005,"body":"And, you know, we've all worked in"},{"startTime":68.315,"endTime":72.005,"body":"this virtual workplace for the most"},{"startTime":72.005,"endTime":75.905,"body":"part for, for the past year and the"},{"startTime":72.005,"endTime":75.905,"body":"traditional water cooler or break room"},{"startTime":75.905,"endTime":77.675,"body":"talk is it's just kinda hard to have."},{"startTime":77.675,"endTime":81.215,"body":"So maybe we'll, we'll have a"},{"startTime":77.675,"endTime":81.215,"body":"little bit of that today and, um,"},{"startTime":81.245,"endTime":83.075,"body":"there's no shortage of headlines."},{"startTime":83.075,"endTime":84.695,"body":"So, uh, you guys want to get started."},{"startTime":86.4,"endTime":86.97,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":87.09,"endTime":87.6,"body":"Go ahead."},{"startTime":87.84,"endTime":88.08,"body":"Awesome."},{"startTime":88.13,"endTime":93.38,"body":"Um, well I think we've, we have to"},{"startTime":88.13,"endTime":93.38,"body":"start the show with, uh, with the issue"},{"startTime":93.38,"endTime":95.63,"body":"going on right now in the Suez canal."},{"startTime":95.78,"endTime":103.07,"body":"So the, the evergreen ship, the ever given"},{"startTime":95.78,"endTime":103.07,"body":"20,000 TEU ship, uh, is currently, uh,"},{"startTime":103.1,"endTime":105.5,"body":"blocked, blocking the, the Suez canal."},{"startTime":105.53,"endTime":108.65,"body":"And it has caused all"},{"startTime":105.53,"endTime":108.65,"body":"sorts of ripple effects."},{"startTime":108.65,"endTime":111.92,"body":"And Lars, I know you've been, been"},{"startTime":108.65,"endTime":111.92,"body":"watching this one closely, but."},{"startTime":112.29,"endTime":116.04,"body":"Would love to hear kind of the updated"},{"startTime":112.29,"endTime":116.04,"body":"information and your perspective"},{"startTime":116.04,"endTime":117.42,"body":"on, on what's happening here."},{"startTime":118.755,"endTime":119.055,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":119.085,"endTime":123.505,"body":"I mean, uh, we're now three and"},{"startTime":119.085,"endTime":123.505,"body":"a half days into, this debaccle."},{"startTime":123.525,"endTime":127.155,"body":"And from my perspective, we are"},{"startTime":123.525,"endTime":127.155,"body":"now entering the period where this"},{"startTime":127.155,"endTime":132.105,"body":"changes from being let's call it an"},{"startTime":127.155,"endTime":132.105,"body":"annoyance to be something that's going"},{"startTime":132.105,"endTime":134.775,"body":"to have significant ripple effects."},{"startTime":135.455,"endTime":139.325,"body":"Maybe you should take the annoyance"},{"startTime":135.455,"endTime":139.325,"body":"part first on the normal circumstances."},{"startTime":139.325,"endTime":142.355,"body":"If you then suddenly have this"},{"startTime":139.325,"endTime":142.355,"body":"Suez canal closed a couple of days,"},{"startTime":142.715,"endTime":144.905,"body":"that would cause serious problems."},{"startTime":144.905,"endTime":149.875,"body":"However reality is that the supply"},{"startTime":144.905,"endTime":149.875,"body":"chains already in disarray after all"},{"startTime":149.875,"endTime":151.545,"body":"the pandemic effects of the last year."},{"startTime":151.545,"endTime":155.985,"body":"So with most vessels being four or"},{"startTime":151.545,"endTime":155.985,"body":"five, six, seven days late, anyway,"},{"startTime":156.365,"endTime":160.465,"body":"an additional delay of two days would"},{"startTime":156.365,"endTime":160.465,"body":"barely be noticeable in this environment."},{"startTime":161.19,"endTime":165.81,"body":"But we have now passed that"},{"startTime":161.19,"endTime":165.81,"body":"point and the ripple effects will"},{"startTime":165.81,"endTime":167.7,"body":"materialize over the coming months."},{"startTime":167.73,"endTime":170.79,"body":"Now, no matter what we do,"},{"startTime":167.73,"endTime":170.79,"body":"even if the canal was to open."},{"startTime":171.255,"endTime":176.775,"body":"Tomorrow, what you will then be faced"},{"startTime":171.255,"endTime":176.775,"body":"with is a massive log jam of vessels."},{"startTime":176.775,"endTime":179.535,"body":"That will take many days"},{"startTime":176.775,"endTime":179.535,"body":"just to clear the backlog."},{"startTime":179.835,"endTime":183.395,"body":"So we are now looking for some of these"},{"startTime":179.835,"endTime":183.395,"body":"vessels of a week, delay no matter what"},{"startTime":183.395,"endTime":188.555,"body":"we do at a very minimum, we are already"},{"startTime":183.395,"endTime":188.555,"body":"seeing carriers now, redirect vessels"},{"startTime":188.555,"endTime":193.115,"body":"to take the long route around Africa as"},{"startTime":188.555,"endTime":193.115,"body":"also to me, a pretty good indication."},{"startTime":193.115,"endTime":196.655,"body":"They don't expect this to be"},{"startTime":193.115,"endTime":196.655,"body":"resolved in the short term,"},{"startTime":197.435,"endTime":198.815,"body":"in terms of ripple effects."},{"startTime":198.875,"endTime":199.925,"body":"There will be many."},{"startTime":200.49,"endTime":203.34,"body":"First of all, this is going"},{"startTime":200.49,"endTime":203.34,"body":"to be filled, especially with"},{"startTime":203.34,"endTime":204.72,"body":"shippers in the Mediterranean."},{"startTime":204.72,"endTime":208.14,"body":"Shortly after that in North Europe"},{"startTime":204.72,"endTime":208.14,"body":"is actually the export shippers."},{"startTime":208.14,"endTime":210.87,"body":"That would feel it the most"},{"startTime":208.14,"endTime":210.87,"body":"because they will have cargo."},{"startTime":210.87,"endTime":214.98,"body":"They want to take down to the port to"},{"startTime":210.87,"endTime":214.98,"body":"put on ships that are right now not"},{"startTime":214.98,"endTime":216.93,"body":"arriving because they have stock in port."},{"startTime":217.44,"endTime":219.81,"body":"The next rebel effect"},{"startTime":217.44,"endTime":219.81,"body":"you're going to see is."},{"startTime":220.62,"endTime":224.85,"body":"The capacity shortage on containers"},{"startTime":220.62,"endTime":224.85,"body":"on empty containers that has been the"},{"startTime":224.85,"endTime":226.59,"body":"headlines for the last four months."},{"startTime":227.01,"endTime":229.53,"body":"This problem is now going to get worse."},{"startTime":229.56,"endTime":233.49,"body":"It is not going to get better"},{"startTime":229.56,"endTime":233.49,"body":"because a large part of solving"},{"startTime":233.49,"endTime":238.08,"body":"that is the repositioning of empties"},{"startTime":233.49,"endTime":238.08,"body":"from Europe back to Asia that is"},{"startTime":238.08,"endTime":240.12,"body":"now stuck in the lockdown as well."},{"startTime":240.6,"endTime":242.25,"body":"So that's another ripple effect."},{"startTime":242.25,"endTime":246.17,"body":"A third rebel effect is of course,"},{"startTime":242.25,"endTime":246.17,"body":"when we talk Suez we tend to"},{"startTime":246.17,"endTime":247.7,"body":"think about Asia and Europe."},{"startTime":248.49,"endTime":252.54,"body":"But you as East coast will be similarly"},{"startTime":248.49,"endTime":252.54,"body":"impacted when you have a large amount of"},{"startTime":252.54,"endTime":257.7,"body":"cargo that goes on the Suez routing and"},{"startTime":252.54,"endTime":257.7,"body":"the knee jerk effect might be to say,"},{"startTime":257.7,"endTime":261.54,"body":"well, that's not really an issue because"},{"startTime":257.7,"endTime":261.54,"body":"we can just use the other us roundings."},{"startTime":262.395,"endTime":263.475,"body":"In normal times."},{"startTime":263.505,"endTime":265.545,"body":"Yes, but these are not normal times."},{"startTime":265.995,"endTime":269.355,"body":"The other routings to the, through"},{"startTime":265.995,"endTime":269.355,"body":"the West coast and through the Panama"},{"startTime":269.385,"endTime":275.385,"body":"canal already suffers from a severe"},{"startTime":269.385,"endTime":275.385,"body":"shortage of vessel capacity and a"},{"startTime":275.385,"endTime":277.395,"body":"massive congestion at the ports."},{"startTime":277.815,"endTime":283.065,"body":"So redirecting the Asia via Suez"},{"startTime":277.815,"endTime":283.065,"body":"to us cargo onto the, I was about"},{"startTime":283.065,"endTime":284.685,"body":"to say traditional us routes."},{"startTime":285.035,"endTime":287.375,"body":"Is not really operationally possible."},{"startTime":287.915,"endTime":292.745,"body":"And the third ripple effect you're going"},{"startTime":287.915,"endTime":292.745,"body":"to feel is if you go around Africa, this"},{"startTime":292.745,"endTime":297.785,"body":"will effectively remove a large amount"},{"startTime":292.745,"endTime":297.785,"body":"of vessel capacity from the market due"},{"startTime":297.785,"endTime":302.945,"body":"to the much longer sailing distances, all"},{"startTime":297.785,"endTime":302.945,"body":"vessels in the world are already sailing."},{"startTime":303.575,"endTime":307.325,"body":"So the question then becomes, where"},{"startTime":303.575,"endTime":307.325,"body":"do we take this extra capacity from?"},{"startTime":308.255,"endTime":311.915,"body":"And that is likely to be done"},{"startTime":308.255,"endTime":311.915,"body":"partially of course, by impacting"},{"startTime":311.915,"endTime":313.535,"body":"the services directly hit."},{"startTime":314.28,"endTime":319.08,"body":"But also other services, would"},{"startTime":314.28,"endTime":319.08,"body":"I continue to operate the way"},{"startTime":319.08,"endTime":320.46,"body":"I do on the transatlantic?"},{"startTime":320.49,"endTime":322.62,"body":"Or would I divert some"},{"startTime":320.49,"endTime":322.62,"body":"ships to help with this?"},{"startTime":323.04,"endTime":326.49,"body":"Would I continue to operate as"},{"startTime":323.04,"endTime":326.49,"body":"paranormal from us to Australia?"},{"startTime":326.67,"endTime":328.38,"body":"Or would I divert some ships from this?"},{"startTime":328.68,"endTime":331.86,"body":"This is going to have a"},{"startTime":328.68,"endTime":331.86,"body":"ripple effect on all trades."},{"startTime":333.41,"endTime":334.19,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":334.31,"endTime":337.01,"body":"Don, when you think from a carrier"},{"startTime":334.31,"endTime":337.01,"body":"perspective, what, what are you"},{"startTime":337.01,"endTime":338.42,"body":"thinking if you're a carrier right now?"},{"startTime":339.66,"endTime":344.33,"body":"Uh, I'm thinking, um, I hope this"},{"startTime":339.66,"endTime":344.33,"body":"is going to be resolved soon and"},{"startTime":344.33,"endTime":347.42,"body":"probably a false hope because I'm"},{"startTime":344.33,"endTime":347.42,"body":"sure they're getting bombarded with"},{"startTime":347.42,"endTime":349.16,"body":"questions and it's never pleasant."},{"startTime":349.755,"endTime":353.505,"body":"To try and respond to something that"},{"startTime":349.755,"endTime":353.505,"body":"you not quite sure how long it's going"},{"startTime":353.505,"endTime":355.365,"body":"to last or what the implications are."},{"startTime":355.785,"endTime":360.945,"body":"And it's very difficult to cope with"},{"startTime":355.785,"endTime":360.945,"body":"something so unpredictable, particularly"},{"startTime":360.945,"endTime":365.715,"body":"when you're talking about customers cargo"},{"startTime":360.945,"endTime":365.715,"body":"transit times, and this is definitely"},{"startTime":365.715,"endTime":369.885,"body":"going to have an impact on your, um,"},{"startTime":365.715,"endTime":369.885,"body":"on your transit, but you're just not"},{"startTime":369.885,"endTime":371.115,"body":"quite sure what you're going to do."},{"startTime":371.115,"endTime":376.635,"body":"How long do you wait versus make"},{"startTime":371.115,"endTime":376.635,"body":"a decision to turn around and."},{"startTime":377.125,"endTime":380.535,"body":"With hindsight, you know, it could look"},{"startTime":377.125,"endTime":380.535,"body":"completely different, the decision you"},{"startTime":380.535,"endTime":385.215,"body":"make, but you're just trying to make"},{"startTime":380.535,"endTime":385.215,"body":"the best decision you can with the"},{"startTime":385.215,"endTime":387.195,"body":"information you have that's available."},{"startTime":387.645,"endTime":392.025,"body":"And it would seem logical that"},{"startTime":387.645,"endTime":392.025,"body":"it's, you're probably at a point"},{"startTime":392.025,"endTime":394.665,"body":"where you need to start thinking"},{"startTime":392.025,"endTime":394.665,"body":"about taking the long route."},{"startTime":394.695,"endTime":398.835,"body":"And even though that has transit time"},{"startTime":394.695,"endTime":398.835,"body":"implications, at least you're dealing with"},{"startTime":398.835,"endTime":402.765,"body":"certainty versus just waiting and hoping."},{"startTime":402.825,"endTime":406.335,"body":"And, and that just doesn't really"},{"startTime":402.825,"endTime":406.335,"body":"feel good to customers usually."},{"startTime":406.68,"endTime":411.03,"body":"That you're just, you're just waiting"},{"startTime":406.68,"endTime":411.03,"body":"without any sense of when it's gonna"},{"startTime":411.06,"endTime":415.62,"body":"get resolved, because I think most"},{"startTime":411.06,"endTime":415.62,"body":"people thought if it wasn't resolved"},{"startTime":415.62,"endTime":420.12,"body":"quickly, it's probably going to"},{"startTime":415.62,"endTime":420.12,"body":"take a while and a while could be"},{"startTime":420.15,"endTime":423.21,"body":"seven days a while could be 14 days."},{"startTime":423.21,"endTime":424.02,"body":"It's just hard."},{"startTime":424.05,"endTime":424.98,"body":"It's anybody's guess."},{"startTime":426.48,"endTime":426.96,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":427.02,"endTime":428.969,"body":"I mean, I think that's the"},{"startTime":427.02,"endTime":428.969,"body":"biggest question, right?"},{"startTime":428.969,"endTime":432.48,"body":"I mean, there's certainly been"},{"startTime":428.969,"endTime":432.48,"body":"various news reports, uh, even"},{"startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.75,"body":"from some of the salvage companies"},{"startTime":432.48,"endTime":435.75,"body":"saying that it could take weeks."},{"startTime":435.75,"endTime":436.02,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":436.02,"endTime":438.81,"body":"I mean, are, they're certainly"},{"startTime":436.02,"endTime":438.81,"body":"trying to dig out the bow."},{"startTime":439.23,"endTime":441.21,"body":"They've got tugs, trying to pull there."},{"startTime":441.26,"endTime":444.84,"body":"They're even hoping, you know, for,"},{"startTime":441.26,"endTime":444.84,"body":"for, for tides that are, are going to"},{"startTime":444.84,"endTime":447.03,"body":"help, you know, free the free the ship."},{"startTime":447.03,"endTime":449.49,"body":"So to your point, I'm not"},{"startTime":447.03,"endTime":449.49,"body":"sure anybody really knows."},{"startTime":449.49,"endTime":453.42,"body":"And you know, for me, from a shipper"},{"startTime":449.49,"endTime":453.42,"body":"perspective, this is just another"},{"startTime":453.42,"endTime":458.25,"body":"reminder, you know, 20, 20, 20,"},{"startTime":453.42,"endTime":458.25,"body":"21 is just this reminder for this"},{"startTime":458.25,"endTime":460.26,"body":"continuous need for diversification."},{"startTime":460.425,"endTime":460.875,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":461.265,"endTime":465.735,"body":"The idea of also having visibility"},{"startTime":461.265,"endTime":465.735,"body":"into your supply chain and resilience."},{"startTime":465.825,"endTime":467.715,"body":"I've heard Lars talk about those things."},{"startTime":467.715,"endTime":471.585,"body":"A number of times over the last"},{"startTime":467.715,"endTime":471.585,"body":"12 months, and the idea of being a"},{"startTime":471.585,"endTime":474.915,"body":"supply chain manager and thinking"},{"startTime":471.585,"endTime":474.915,"body":"that these are just one-off issues."},{"startTime":475.055,"endTime":476.925,"body":"Just, I don't think you can, you can."},{"startTime":477.135,"endTime":478.545,"body":"Except that anymore."},{"startTime":478.575,"endTime":481.335,"body":"I think you just have to know that you're"},{"startTime":478.575,"endTime":481.335,"body":"going to walk into your job each and"},{"startTime":481.335,"endTime":484.635,"body":"every day, and you never know exactly"},{"startTime":481.335,"endTime":484.635,"body":"what's going to happen in the world."},{"startTime":485.145,"endTime":485.925,"body":"Now do a lot of us."},{"startTime":485.925,"endTime":487.395,"body":"That's the excitement of the job."},{"startTime":487.485,"endTime":491.265,"body":"But if you don't have that resilience"},{"startTime":487.485,"endTime":491.265,"body":"and diversification built into"},{"startTime":491.265,"endTime":494.655,"body":"your supply chain, you're just"},{"startTime":491.265,"endTime":494.655,"body":"going to have a ton of challenges."},{"startTime":494.745,"endTime":497.085,"body":"And I think the idea,"},{"startTime":494.745,"endTime":497.085,"body":"first of just knowing."},{"startTime":497.505,"endTime":501.674,"body":"What cargo you have, you know, do I even"},{"startTime":497.505,"endTime":501.674,"body":"have cargo on the evergreen ship or do I"},{"startTime":501.674,"endTime":505.544,"body":"have cargo on it, on any of these ships"},{"startTime":501.674,"endTime":505.544,"body":"that are either waiting or being diverted?"},{"startTime":505.875,"endTime":509.325,"body":"So I can communicate internally"},{"startTime":505.875,"endTime":509.325,"body":"to, to my stakeholders and"},{"startTime":509.325,"endTime":511.484,"body":"make decisions on future cargo."},{"startTime":511.815,"endTime":514.995,"body":"And then the last thing is large"},{"startTime":511.815,"endTime":514.995,"body":"talked about the idea that if"},{"startTime":514.995,"endTime":518.174,"body":"you're a TPE eastbound eastbound"},{"startTime":514.995,"endTime":518.174,"body":"shipper, and you go to the East"},{"startTime":518.174,"endTime":520.424,"body":"coast, you know, the idea of having."},{"startTime":520.935,"endTime":524.835,"body":"Um, freight that flows both through"},{"startTime":520.935,"endTime":524.835,"body":"the Panama and the Suez canal."},{"startTime":524.955,"endTime":525.315,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":525.315,"endTime":527.925,"body":"And, and, and being able to"},{"startTime":525.315,"endTime":527.925,"body":"continue to flow freight."},{"startTime":527.925,"endTime":532.155,"body":"If one of those was, was not open"},{"startTime":527.925,"endTime":532.155,"body":"shippers that employ those types"},{"startTime":532.155,"endTime":535.215,"body":"of strategies are going to benefit"},{"startTime":532.155,"endTime":535.215,"body":"in these types of situations."},{"startTime":537.185,"endTime":537.395,"body":"And"},{"startTime":537.575,"endTime":543.275,"body":"Brian, do you think this is one of"},{"startTime":537.575,"endTime":543.275,"body":"those cases where as a shipper, you then"},{"startTime":543.335,"endTime":547.835,"body":"say, or someone, some senior manager"},{"startTime":543.335,"endTime":547.835,"body":"might say to you avoid the canals."},{"startTime":548.385,"endTime":552.555,"body":"That, that we're, we're contract"},{"startTime":548.385,"endTime":552.555,"body":"planning now for next year."},{"startTime":552.855,"endTime":558.645,"body":"And any service that, uh, uses a"},{"startTime":552.855,"endTime":558.645,"body":"canal, you avoid it, or do you think"},{"startTime":558.645,"endTime":559.905,"body":"that's something that could happen?"},{"startTime":560.235,"endTime":563.595,"body":"Or do you think that this is"},{"startTime":560.235,"endTime":563.595,"body":"something that you just say, well,"},{"startTime":563.625,"endTime":567.03,"body":"you know, Uh, one of those things"},{"startTime":563.625,"endTime":567.03,"body":"that we don't expect to happen again."},{"startTime":567.03,"endTime":567.84,"body":"So we shouldn't try and"},{"startTime":567.84,"endTime":568.47,"body":"plan around it."},{"startTime":568.97,"endTime":570.32,"body":"It's all about minimizing risk."},{"startTime":570.33,"endTime":572.75,"body":"And sometimes there's only"},{"startTime":570.33,"endTime":572.75,"body":"certain, you know, certain ways"},{"startTime":572.75,"endTime":574.37,"body":"you can get to places, right."},{"startTime":574.37,"endTime":579.41,"body":"But this idea of saying I'm going"},{"startTime":574.37,"endTime":579.41,"body":"to optimize for, for transit, for"},{"startTime":579.41,"endTime":581.57,"body":"price, for diversification, et cetera."},{"startTime":581.6,"endTime":581.83,"body":"And."},{"startTime":582.36,"endTime":586.89,"body":"I may have 75% of my cargo that,"},{"startTime":582.36,"endTime":586.89,"body":"that transits the Panama canal,"},{"startTime":586.89,"endTime":591.42,"body":"because it is the best and uniquely"},{"startTime":586.89,"endTime":591.42,"body":"fits where, where my network needs."},{"startTime":591.449,"endTime":596.1,"body":"But this idea of having something"},{"startTime":591.449,"endTime":596.1,"body":"meaningful 20%, 25%, a third"},{"startTime":596.49,"endTime":598.77,"body":"that also uses the Suez canal."},{"startTime":598.77,"endTime":602.25,"body":"So I have a meaningful outlet"},{"startTime":598.77,"endTime":602.25,"body":"should something like this happen."},{"startTime":602.79,"endTime":608.16,"body":"I can work with existing partners, um,"},{"startTime":602.79,"endTime":608.16,"body":"both with carriers and with ports too."},{"startTime":608.535,"endTime":610.575,"body":"Just to shift cargo if I need to."},{"startTime":610.725,"endTime":614.625,"body":"Um, so to me, it would be talking"},{"startTime":610.725,"endTime":614.625,"body":"to that, that, that executive about"},{"startTime":614.925,"endTime":618.855,"body":"optimizing for our network, but building"},{"startTime":614.925,"endTime":618.855,"body":"resilience and redundancy in should"},{"startTime":618.855,"endTime":622.085,"body":"a situation like this happen to,"},{"startTime":622.165,"endTime":627.905,"body":"to, to me, this might also be one of those"},{"startTime":622.165,"endTime":627.905,"body":"times where, I mean, at least this is the"},{"startTime":627.905,"endTime":629.855,"body":"way I see it from a shipper perspective."},{"startTime":629.855,"endTime":634.175,"body":"There is a very high risk, and I"},{"startTime":629.855,"endTime":634.175,"body":"understand the inclination right now"},{"startTime":634.625,"endTime":636.125,"body":"to spend time on the wrong problem."},{"startTime":636.78,"endTime":640.98,"body":"There would be an inclination for shippers"},{"startTime":636.78,"endTime":640.98,"body":"right now to be extremely concerned"},{"startTime":640.98,"endTime":645.39,"body":"about what happens to my cargo on those"},{"startTime":640.98,"endTime":645.39,"body":"boxes stock, in that queue off the"},{"startTime":645.39,"endTime":648.48,"body":"Suez canal is how I would look at it."},{"startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.47,"body":"I'll say I don't, I wouldn't"},{"startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.47,"body":"spend time on that because"},{"startTime":652.47,"endTime":654.96,"body":"nobody knows it's it stuck there."},{"startTime":654.97,"endTime":657.66,"body":"Nobody knows it's not something"},{"startTime":654.97,"endTime":657.66,"body":"I can do anything about."},{"startTime":657.66,"endTime":660.45,"body":"No matter what I do, however."},{"startTime":661.11,"endTime":664.17,"body":"I know there's a freight train"},{"startTime":661.11,"endTime":664.17,"body":"coming a few weeks and a few months"},{"startTime":664.17,"endTime":668.21,"body":"down the line, the ripple effects"},{"startTime":664.17,"endTime":668.21,"body":"here will be poor congestion, lack"},{"startTime":668.21,"endTime":670.37,"body":"of containers, blank sailings."},{"startTime":670.67,"endTime":672.86,"body":"So I would instead spend my time Mustang."},{"startTime":672.92,"endTime":673.4,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":673.76,"endTime":676.64,"body":"If I try to project,"},{"startTime":673.76,"endTime":676.64,"body":"where will these ships be?"},{"startTime":676.7,"endTime":679.76,"body":"Three, four, five, eight,"},{"startTime":676.7,"endTime":679.76,"body":"10, 12 weeks down the line."},{"startTime":680.03,"endTime":682.31,"body":"What are the sailings that"},{"startTime":680.03,"endTime":682.31,"body":"are now going to be canceled?"},{"startTime":682.55,"endTime":685.79,"body":"How do I make sure that I at"},{"startTime":682.55,"endTime":685.79,"body":"least get my cargo moving?"},{"startTime":686.444,"endTime":688.694,"body":"In April, may, June and July."},{"startTime":688.905,"endTime":693.285,"body":"That's something I can do something"},{"startTime":688.905,"endTime":693.285,"body":"about right now, but looking at the cargo"},{"startTime":693.285,"endTime":695.145,"body":"that right now is stuck in that jam."},{"startTime":695.324,"endTime":698.775,"body":"That's the last thing to spend time"},{"startTime":695.324,"endTime":698.775,"body":"on because honestly, nobody knows,"},{"startTime":698.775,"endTime":699.824,"body":"and there's nothing you can do."},{"startTime":700.62,"endTime":702.24,"body":"No, it's a, it's a really good point."},{"startTime":702.24,"endTime":706.38,"body":"And then if you don't have some"},{"startTime":702.24,"endTime":706.38,"body":"of those alternatives, um, already"},{"startTime":706.38,"endTime":709.59,"body":"established, you know, now to your"},{"startTime":706.38,"endTime":709.59,"body":"point would be the time to start."},{"startTime":710.07,"endTime":713.79,"body":"Obviously you might be behind some of"},{"startTime":710.07,"endTime":713.79,"body":"those that already have other established"},{"startTime":713.79,"endTime":718.71,"body":"routes or, um, relationships with"},{"startTime":713.79,"endTime":718.71,"body":"providers in some of those other lanes."},{"startTime":718.71,"endTime":722.22,"body":"But I think it's great advice"},{"startTime":718.71,"endTime":722.22,"body":"Lars, to focus on because."},{"startTime":722.73,"endTime":725.459,"body":"I think it really speaks to"},{"startTime":722.73,"endTime":725.459,"body":"just the bigger issues, right?"},{"startTime":725.459,"endTime":728.939,"body":"This is one issue and it certainly"},{"startTime":725.459,"endTime":728.939,"body":"is dominating the headlines."},{"startTime":728.939,"endTime":731.67,"body":"But if we talk about"},{"startTime":728.939,"endTime":731.67,"body":"overall market, right?"},{"startTime":731.67,"endTime":735.27,"body":"I mean, you know, one of the headlines"},{"startTime":731.67,"endTime":735.27,"body":"that came out of, out of the TPM was"},{"startTime":735.27,"endTime":740.22,"body":"this idea that container chaos will"},{"startTime":735.27,"endTime":740.22,"body":"take through Q3 to resolve right."},{"startTime":741.015,"endTime":742.335,"body":"Whether that's true or not."},{"startTime":742.365,"endTime":743.205,"body":"I don't know."},{"startTime":743.355,"endTime":748.245,"body":"But there is this perspective that,"},{"startTime":743.355,"endTime":748.245,"body":"um, some of the disruption that we have"},{"startTime":748.245,"endTime":751.815,"body":"had will continue on and, and Laura's,"},{"startTime":748.245,"endTime":751.815,"body":"I'd love to hear your perspective"},{"startTime":751.815,"endTime":753.675,"body":"on the broader market disruption."},{"startTime":754.865,"endTime":755.135,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":755.165,"endTime":760.535,"body":"Th th the problem is, I mean, before"},{"startTime":755.165,"endTime":760.535,"body":"this Suez said, dip will happen."},{"startTime":760.535,"endTime":762.175,"body":"I would also have the perspective that."},{"startTime":762.345,"endTime":768.435,"body":"The problems we see now they should"},{"startTime":762.345,"endTime":768.435,"body":"have abated by end of Q2 in a normal"},{"startTime":768.435,"endTime":770.445,"body":"and relatively benign environment."},{"startTime":770.445,"endTime":774.075,"body":"But right now this is anything bought"},{"startTime":770.445,"endTime":774.075,"body":"in normal and benign environment."},{"startTime":774.105,"endTime":777.075,"body":"Under normal circumstances"},{"startTime":774.105,"endTime":777.075,"body":"had the market been normal."},{"startTime":777.675,"endTime":781.185,"body":"We could have handled this a Suez"},{"startTime":777.675,"endTime":781.185,"body":"blockage because there's usually"},{"startTime":781.185,"endTime":782.715,"body":"excess capacity in the system."},{"startTime":783.915,"endTime":788.205,"body":"Reality right now is there is zero excess"},{"startTime":783.915,"endTime":788.205,"body":"capacity because all of that has been"},{"startTime":788.205,"endTime":790.335,"body":"soaked up with the pandemic fallout."},{"startTime":790.335,"endTime":792.405,"body":"So we have no buffer in the system."},{"startTime":793.215,"endTime":797.775,"body":"So whatever disruptions we had over"},{"startTime":793.215,"endTime":797.775,"body":"the last six months, there is no way"},{"startTime":797.775,"endTime":802.815,"body":"we can now clean up on those until"},{"startTime":797.775,"endTime":802.815,"body":"not only that the Suez canal opens,"},{"startTime":803.055,"endTime":806.505,"body":"but we have to wait to the ripple"},{"startTime":803.055,"endTime":806.505,"body":"effects of that one is dealt with."},{"startTime":806.985,"endTime":810.585,"body":"Um, I know one of the things that"},{"startTime":806.985,"endTime":810.585,"body":"has been dominated the last couple"},{"startTime":810.585,"endTime":811.755,"body":"of months is of course, this."},{"startTime":812.115,"endTime":815.625,"body":"Massive lock jam of vessels waiting"},{"startTime":812.115,"endTime":815.625,"body":"off the California coastline in"},{"startTime":815.625,"endTime":821.655,"body":"particular, it doesn't take many"},{"startTime":815.625,"endTime":821.655,"body":"more days of closing this Suez canal."},{"startTime":821.955,"endTime":825.075,"body":"Then you can look a few weeks or a month"},{"startTime":821.955,"endTime":825.075,"body":"into the future, and you can see the"},{"startTime":825.075,"endTime":827.265,"body":"same image of the major ports in Europe."},{"startTime":828.045,"endTime":834.135,"body":"The major ports in Europe are extremely"},{"startTime":828.045,"endTime":834.135,"body":"efficient, very good at what they do, but"},{"startTime":834.135,"endTime":838.185,"body":"when you open the canal, You're going to"},{"startTime":834.135,"endTime":838.185,"body":"see cargo come like you out of a ketchup"},{"startTime":838.185,"endTime":839.685,"body":"bottle that has been stuck down there."},{"startTime":840.435,"endTime":844.515,"body":"And it doesn't take a lot more"},{"startTime":840.435,"endTime":844.515,"body":"days of additional cargo on top."},{"startTime":844.545,"endTime":848.205,"body":"Then you also run out of capacity"},{"startTime":844.545,"endTime":848.205,"body":"in the European ports, and the"},{"startTime":848.205,"endTime":851.865,"body":"problem then becomes exactly the"},{"startTime":848.205,"endTime":851.865,"body":"same as for example, in California."},{"startTime":852.3,"endTime":855.87,"body":"The port has a limited capacity for how"},{"startTime":852.3,"endTime":855.87,"body":"many vessels can you handle per day?"},{"startTime":855.87,"endTime":857.189,"body":"That's problem number one."},{"startTime":857.579,"endTime":861.0,"body":"And when you then do get the cargo"},{"startTime":857.579,"endTime":861.0,"body":"off, there's a limit as to how many"},{"startTime":861.0,"endTime":864.93,"body":"trucks and barges and railway wagons"},{"startTime":861.0,"endTime":864.93,"body":"you have behind the port to actually"},{"startTime":864.93,"endTime":866.699,"body":"clear it out of the port to start with,"},{"startTime":868.1,"endTime":872.79,"body":"when you think about, learning"},{"startTime":868.1,"endTime":872.79,"body":"from what we've experienced in"},{"startTime":872.87,"endTime":874.459,"body":"LA long beach and applying that."},{"startTime":874.459,"endTime":877.459,"body":"So either learning what"},{"startTime":874.459,"endTime":877.459,"body":"not to do or what to do."},{"startTime":878.125,"endTime":882.225,"body":"Again, Don or Lars, is there"},{"startTime":878.125,"endTime":882.225,"body":"anything from a carrier shipper or"},{"startTime":882.225,"endTime":883.905,"body":"terminal operations perspective?"},{"startTime":883.905,"endTime":889.335,"body":"You'd say we've learned this and let's"},{"startTime":883.905,"endTime":889.335,"body":"apply it or not apply it to, to maybe"},{"startTime":889.335,"endTime":890.925,"body":"what what's going to happen in Europe."},{"startTime":892.595,"endTime":896.555,"body":"No, it was, I'll say, I'm not sure"},{"startTime":892.595,"endTime":896.555,"body":"whether it's a learning point."},{"startTime":896.555,"endTime":901.055,"body":"It was something I started, annoying"},{"startTime":896.555,"endTime":901.055,"body":"people with already several months ago"},{"startTime":901.925,"endTime":906.875,"body":"when I was told, well, how should we"},{"startTime":901.925,"endTime":906.875,"body":"make our supply chain strategy for 2021?"},{"startTime":907.785,"endTime":913.395,"body":"And basically my standard response ever"},{"startTime":907.785,"endTime":913.395,"body":"since, and this just emphasizes it even"},{"startTime":913.395,"endTime":919.245,"body":"further is don't plan for just-in-time"},{"startTime":913.395,"endTime":919.245,"body":"supply chains for 2021, you will be"},{"startTime":919.245,"endTime":923.925,"body":"horribly disappointed don't plan for"},{"startTime":919.245,"endTime":923.925,"body":"the cheapest possible freight, because"},{"startTime":923.925,"endTime":925.545,"body":"you will be at the back of the line."},{"startTime":925.545,"endTime":927.225,"body":"Resilience is the name of the game."},{"startTime":927.795,"endTime":930.315,"body":"That counts also when you go forward here."},{"startTime":930.645,"endTime":933.765,"body":"So right now you have no idea"},{"startTime":930.645,"endTime":933.765,"body":"when the cargo will arrive."},{"startTime":933.795,"endTime":935.925,"body":"At some point in time,"},{"startTime":933.795,"endTime":935.925,"body":"the Suez canal will open."},{"startTime":936.45,"endTime":941.25,"body":"You will receive finally and advisory"},{"startTime":936.45,"endTime":941.25,"body":"from the carrier saying, well, your 27"},{"startTime":941.25,"endTime":946.73,"body":"boxes of garden furniture is now due"},{"startTime":941.25,"endTime":946.73,"body":"to arrive in Hamburg on April 22nd."},{"startTime":948.38,"endTime":952.91,"body":"Don't rush out and just put it in the"},{"startTime":948.38,"endTime":952.91,"body":"bank that the cargo will actually be"},{"startTime":952.91,"endTime":958.04,"body":"accessible to you on April 22nd, you"},{"startTime":952.91,"endTime":958.04,"body":"might be lucky and it is, or it might be"},{"startTime":958.04,"endTime":961.58,"body":"a week, or it might be two weeks because"},{"startTime":958.04,"endTime":961.58,"body":"we might run into this catch up effect."},{"startTime":964.445,"endTime":964.805,"body":"Don."},{"startTime":964.805,"endTime":967.145,"body":"What do you think on, on"},{"startTime":964.805,"endTime":967.145,"body":"just in general market?"},{"startTime":967.235,"endTime":971.375,"body":"You know, I know the headline says Q3"},{"startTime":967.235,"endTime":971.375,"body":"to resolve, but essentially is there"},{"startTime":971.375,"endTime":976.175,"body":"going to be any lull as we go from where"},{"startTime":971.375,"endTime":976.175,"body":"we are today into, into peak season?"},{"startTime":976.175,"endTime":978.455,"body":"Is it just going to be"},{"startTime":976.175,"endTime":978.455,"body":"one continuous stream?"},{"startTime":979.025,"endTime":980.165,"body":"Do you see any breaks?"},{"startTime":980.195,"endTime":980.735,"body":"What do you think?"},{"startTime":980.735,"endTime":981.095,"body":"I think"},{"startTime":982.955,"endTime":985.085,"body":"I do not see any breaks."},{"startTime":985.265,"endTime":988.865,"body":"Um, I see a couple of things and."},{"startTime":990.089,"endTime":992.67,"body":"In, in my role, I talked"},{"startTime":990.089,"endTime":992.67,"body":"to a lot of carriers."},{"startTime":992.67,"endTime":998.699,"body":"I talked to a lot NVOs and I think the"},{"startTime":992.67,"endTime":998.699,"body":"first observation is carriers are trying"},{"startTime":998.699,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"to really manage expectations this year,"},{"startTime":998.699,"endTime":1003.26,"body":"in terms of their contracting strategy."},{"startTime":1003.635,"endTime":1011.185,"body":"And they're getting a number of requests"},{"startTime":1003.635,"endTime":1011.185,"body":"for customers to increase MQC to look at."},{"startTime":1011.275,"endTime":1015.805,"body":"Um, new, I could see customers are looking"},{"startTime":1011.275,"endTime":1015.805,"body":"at new carriers and they're trying to"},{"startTime":1015.805,"endTime":1017.395,"body":"bring their business to someone else."},{"startTime":1017.395,"endTime":1020.275,"body":"And carriers are really being hesitant."},{"startTime":1020.305,"endTime":1024.865,"body":"I would say, in terms of taking"},{"startTime":1020.305,"endTime":1024.865,"body":"on too much MQC or taking on too"},{"startTime":1024.865,"endTime":1029.304,"body":"many new customers, because my"},{"startTime":1024.865,"endTime":1029.304,"body":"impression is they want to deliver."},{"startTime":1029.75,"endTime":1033.919,"body":"A good result in 2021 and really"},{"startTime":1029.75,"endTime":1033.919,"body":"clearly manage expectations."},{"startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.79,"body":"But while you're also seeing is that"},{"startTime":1034.25,"endTime":1037.79,"body":"on the other hand, that there's people"},{"startTime":1037.79,"endTime":1041.839,"body":"that are starting to get concerned about"},{"startTime":1037.79,"endTime":1041.839,"body":"what they're going to do, because some"},{"startTime":1041.839,"endTime":1044.869,"body":"companies have significant growth plans."},{"startTime":1045.229,"endTime":1049.639,"body":"Their year on year growth has"},{"startTime":1045.229,"endTime":1049.639,"body":"been tremendous and now they need"},{"startTime":1049.639,"endTime":1051.139,"body":"to find a home for their cargo."},{"startTime":1051.62,"endTime":1055.879,"body":"So I think what that points to is"},{"startTime":1051.62,"endTime":1055.879,"body":"that a very, very strong market"},{"startTime":1055.939,"endTime":1057.62,"body":"leading into the third quarter."},{"startTime":1058.055,"endTime":1062.645,"body":"And I think if you look at the third"},{"startTime":1058.055,"endTime":1062.645,"body":"quarter as the traditional peak season on"},{"startTime":1062.645,"endTime":1068.585,"body":"top of volumes that are already expected"},{"startTime":1062.645,"endTime":1068.585,"body":"to increase, I don't see any sort of"},{"startTime":1068.585,"endTime":1072.305,"body":"lull until maybe after golden week."},{"startTime":1072.425,"endTime":1074.585,"body":"So you're talking fourth"},{"startTime":1072.425,"endTime":1074.585,"body":"quarter of this year."},{"startTime":1074.945,"endTime":1078.215,"body":"Um, does that roll into"},{"startTime":1074.945,"endTime":1078.215,"body":"Chinese new year for next year?"},{"startTime":1078.695,"endTime":1079.625,"body":"Quite conceivably?"},{"startTime":1079.625,"endTime":1082.385,"body":"It could, uh, I think there's a"},{"startTime":1079.625,"endTime":1082.385,"body":"number of things that we don't"},{"startTime":1082.385,"endTime":1083.945,"body":"know at this point, but it's not."},{"startTime":1084.47,"endTime":1087.83,"body":"Uh, it wouldn't be a huge surprise"},{"startTime":1084.47,"endTime":1087.83,"body":"to me to see the strength of the"},{"startTime":1087.83,"endTime":1093.44,"body":"market continue, because again,"},{"startTime":1087.83,"endTime":1093.44,"body":"you're not seeing this outlet of"},{"startTime":1093.44,"endTime":1096.02,"body":"capacity or that there's some."},{"startTime":1096.35,"endTime":1100.22,"body":"New service coming online that could"},{"startTime":1096.35,"endTime":1100.22,"body":"handle all this additional volume."},{"startTime":1100.55,"endTime":1102.02,"body":"I think it's going to be very difficult."},{"startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1107.36,"body":"So I don't see much of a change or"},{"startTime":1102.02,"endTime":1107.36,"body":"much of a reason to believe it's going"},{"startTime":1107.36,"endTime":1109.07,"body":"to change based on what we're hearing"},{"startTime":1109.18,"endTime":1109.57,"body":"today."},{"startTime":1109.629,"endTime":1110.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1110.379,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"You know, Lars, there's been this"},{"startTime":1110.379,"endTime":1114.22,"body":"talk of once, um, vaccinations"},{"startTime":1114.22,"endTime":1118.06,"body":"get out and we reach, you know,"},{"startTime":1114.22,"endTime":1118.06,"body":"whatever herd immunity is."},{"startTime":1118.06,"endTime":1121.33,"body":"Is that there, there could be"},{"startTime":1118.06,"endTime":1121.33,"body":"this shift between consumers."},{"startTime":1121.825,"endTime":1125.485,"body":"Hunkering down and buying, you know,"},{"startTime":1121.825,"endTime":1125.485,"body":"again, goods for their homes and"},{"startTime":1125.485,"endTime":1129.294,"body":"then trading off into services or"},{"startTime":1125.485,"endTime":1129.294,"body":"travel or things of that nature."},{"startTime":1129.385,"endTime":1134.274,"body":"Do you see that happening or any"},{"startTime":1129.385,"endTime":1134.274,"body":"effect on demand and what we see"},{"startTime":1134.274,"endTime":1135.774,"body":"for, for the second half of the year,"},{"startTime":1136.695,"endTime":1139.004,"body":"we're not seeing any"},{"startTime":1136.695,"endTime":1139.004,"body":"signs of it happening yet."},{"startTime":1139.095,"endTime":1140.835,"body":"Uh, that one is very simple."},{"startTime":1141.705,"endTime":1144.764,"body":"I would, however, still hold out"},{"startTime":1141.705,"endTime":1144.764,"body":"the belief that at some point"},{"startTime":1144.764,"endTime":1146.235,"body":"in time you will see the shift."},{"startTime":1146.595,"endTime":1151.155,"body":"Uh, the, the question, which is"},{"startTime":1146.595,"endTime":1151.155,"body":"almost impossible to answer is."},{"startTime":1151.625,"endTime":1152.855,"body":"When will it happen?"},{"startTime":1152.855,"endTime":1154.294,"body":"And how quickly would that happen?"},{"startTime":1154.324,"endTime":1157.115,"body":"Both of them are important"},{"startTime":1154.324,"endTime":1157.115,"body":"for the container flows."},{"startTime":1157.564,"endTime":1163.504,"body":"If it happens quickly and suddenly"},{"startTime":1157.564,"endTime":1163.504,"body":"I could certainly see a handbrake"},{"startTime":1163.504,"endTime":1166.595,"body":"being pulled on the part of the"},{"startTime":1163.504,"endTime":1166.595,"body":"importers saying, hang on a second."},{"startTime":1166.595,"endTime":1168.245,"body":"Suddenly our sales are plummeting."},{"startTime":1168.725,"endTime":1172.504,"body":"Maybe we should hold off, ordering more"},{"startTime":1168.725,"endTime":1172.504,"body":"goods, at least for a little while,"},{"startTime":1172.504,"endTime":1174.365,"body":"until we figured out what's going on."},{"startTime":1174.605,"endTime":1178.655,"body":"So you can have this short-term period"},{"startTime":1174.605,"endTime":1178.655,"body":"of a month or two where suddenly."},{"startTime":1179.794,"endTime":1181.804,"body":"Container demand goes into reverse."},{"startTime":1181.804,"endTime":1186.155,"body":"And then it normalizes after"},{"startTime":1181.804,"endTime":1186.155,"body":"that, the problem is no one"},{"startTime":1186.155,"endTime":1187.294,"body":"knows when this has happened."},{"startTime":1187.314,"endTime":1192.845,"body":"I mean, this side of world war II, we have"},{"startTime":1187.314,"endTime":1192.845,"body":"never had such a constraint placed upon"},{"startTime":1192.845,"endTime":1195.185,"body":"consumers and what you can spend money on."},{"startTime":1195.185,"endTime":1197.405,"body":"So there really isn't"},{"startTime":1195.185,"endTime":1197.405,"body":"anything to model it on."},{"startTime":1198.064,"endTime":1201.965,"body":"If this shift, however, happens very"},{"startTime":1198.064,"endTime":1201.965,"body":"gradually, we might not see that"},{"startTime":1201.965,"endTime":1204.754,"body":"backlash because then it's just going"},{"startTime":1201.965,"endTime":1204.754,"body":"to kind of be a slow easing off."},{"startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1210.47,"body":"For the importers and let's keep in"},{"startTime":1205.07,"endTime":1210.47,"body":"mind right now, despite the enormous"},{"startTime":1210.47,"endTime":1214.669,"body":"boom in cargo in recent months, the"},{"startTime":1210.47,"endTime":1214.669,"body":"latest numbers and inventories actually"},{"startTime":1214.669,"endTime":1216.919,"body":"shows retail inventories are down."},{"startTime":1217.28,"endTime":1219.32,"body":"And that's despite all"},{"startTime":1217.28,"endTime":1219.32,"body":"the cargo that came in."},{"startTime":1220.0,"endTime":1220.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1220.33,"endTime":1223.78,"body":"I, I think, you know, when you talk about"},{"startTime":1220.33,"endTime":1223.78,"body":"some of those headlines, to your point,"},{"startTime":1223.81,"endTime":1227.11,"body":"we don't know when it's going to happen,"},{"startTime":1223.81,"endTime":1227.11,"body":"but we do know what's happening now."},{"startTime":1227.139,"endTime":1232.18,"body":"And you know, some of the headlines"},{"startTime":1227.139,"endTime":1232.18,"body":"read retail sales rise, 7.8% in February"},{"startTime":1232.33,"endTime":1234.399,"body":"as consumers remain hunkered down."},{"startTime":1234.665,"endTime":1235.445,"body":"You know, U.S."},{"startTime":1235.445,"endTime":1236.225,"body":"Front, U.S."},{"startTime":1236.225,"endTime":1240.294,"body":"Importers front-loading that"},{"startTime":1236.225,"endTime":1240.294,"body":"adds to bullish transpacific,"},{"startTime":1240.294,"endTime":1241.945,"body":"Q2, outlook, et cetera."},{"startTime":1241.975,"endTime":1247.555,"body":"And then back to the disruption effects"},{"startTime":1241.975,"endTime":1247.555,"body":"on retailers that we've talked about,"},{"startTime":1248.274,"endTime":1252.985,"body":"um, when you have headlines that says"},{"startTime":1248.274,"endTime":1252.985,"body":"yes, U S retailers see millions in"},{"startTime":1252.985,"endTime":1258.745,"body":"sales delays, amid shipping log jams in"},{"startTime":1252.985,"endTime":1258.745,"body":"the LA times, or Peloton supply chain"},{"startTime":1258.745,"endTime":1260.395,"body":"is broken a hundred million dollars."},{"startTime":1260.395,"endTime":1264.98,"body":"Won't fix it from freight waves,"},{"startTime":1260.395,"endTime":1264.98,"body":"you know, Nike sales growth slows"},{"startTime":1264.98,"endTime":1266.36,"body":"because of supply chain issues."},{"startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1270.95,"body":"When these companies are having to talk"},{"startTime":1266.36,"endTime":1270.95,"body":"about supply chain issues because they"},{"startTime":1270.95,"endTime":1273.44,"body":"are creating financial material impacts."},{"startTime":1273.83,"endTime":1277.79,"body":"I mean, I think that tells you just how"},{"startTime":1273.83,"endTime":1277.79,"body":"deep right, these, these problems are."},{"startTime":1278.3,"endTime":1283.07,"body":"And you touched on this idea of saying,"},{"startTime":1278.3,"endTime":1283.07,"body":"Hey, if you're a shipper to think that you"},{"startTime":1283.07,"endTime":1288.41,"body":"are going to seamlessly flow goods just"},{"startTime":1283.07,"endTime":1288.41,"body":"in time is probably not a good strategy"},{"startTime":1288.44,"endTime":1291.38,"body":"or negotiating for the lowest rate."},{"startTime":1291.905,"endTime":1293.705,"body":"Is probably not a good strategy."},{"startTime":1293.705,"endTime":1297.515,"body":"And I think there's a lot of shippers"},{"startTime":1293.705,"endTime":1297.515,"body":"that are caught, you know, because"},{"startTime":1297.815,"endTime":1299.615,"body":"that's what they've always done."},{"startTime":1299.615,"endTime":1301.025,"body":"And that's what they're used to doing."},{"startTime":1301.025,"endTime":1305.465,"body":"But this idea of saying not this"},{"startTime":1301.025,"endTime":1305.465,"body":"year, this year, I'm going to be more"},{"startTime":1305.465,"endTime":1310.385,"body":"focused on what is a fair rate that"},{"startTime":1305.465,"endTime":1310.385,"body":"I can invest in price and receive."},{"startTime":1310.835,"endTime":1315.335,"body":"A degree of predictability or a, or"},{"startTime":1310.835,"endTime":1315.335,"body":"reliability that allows me to start"},{"startTime":1315.335,"endTime":1320.585,"body":"to make an impact on some of those"},{"startTime":1315.335,"endTime":1320.585,"body":"opportunities that are causing lacking"},{"startTime":1320.675,"endTime":1323.014,"body":"lack of sales or, or out of stocks."},{"startTime":1323.555,"endTime":1328.115,"body":"Um, because you may be trying to negotiate"},{"startTime":1323.555,"endTime":1328.115,"body":"to save a couple hundred bucks on, on your"},{"startTime":1328.115,"endTime":1331.774,"body":"ocean freight rate, but the downstream"},{"startTime":1328.115,"endTime":1331.774,"body":"effects could actually turn into millions."},{"startTime":1333.925,"endTime":1337.195,"body":"But, but, but you're gonna say here,"},{"startTime":1333.925,"endTime":1337.195,"body":"you're touching on also a different topic."},{"startTime":1337.965,"endTime":1342.095,"body":"At, at least in the last year tends"},{"startTime":1337.965,"endTime":1342.095,"body":"to have been somewhat forgotten"},{"startTime":1342.845,"endTime":1345.185,"body":"because at least that's my view on it."},{"startTime":1345.185,"endTime":1347.555,"body":"There, I tend to call the pandemic noise."},{"startTime":1348.155,"endTime":1349.745,"body":"It's large-scale noise."},{"startTime":1349.805,"endTime":1352.835,"body":"It's huge volatility, but it's noise."},{"startTime":1352.835,"endTime":1354.155,"body":"It's a temporary effect."},{"startTime":1355.565,"endTime":1359.254,"body":"We have an underlying fundamental"},{"startTime":1355.565,"endTime":1359.254,"body":"shift in this industry."},{"startTime":1359.254,"endTime":1362.345,"body":"That's actually far more important"},{"startTime":1359.254,"endTime":1362.345,"body":"is very much like when we had the"},{"startTime":1362.345,"endTime":1365.165,"body":"financial crisis, the financial"},{"startTime":1362.345,"endTime":1365.165,"body":"crisis was not important."},{"startTime":1365.195,"endTime":1366.125,"body":"It was noise."},{"startTime":1366.575,"endTime":1369.905,"body":"But underneath that, the entire"},{"startTime":1366.575,"endTime":1369.905,"body":"industry shifted because we went"},{"startTime":1369.905,"endTime":1373.625,"body":"from this high growth environment to"},{"startTime":1369.905,"endTime":1373.625,"body":"a more mature environment and that"},{"startTime":1373.625,"endTime":1377.735,"body":"fundamentally changed dynamics and"},{"startTime":1373.625,"endTime":1377.735,"body":"started the whole consolidation process."},{"startTime":1378.47,"endTime":1381.55,"body":"We are at a point where that process"},{"startTime":1378.47,"endTime":1381.55,"body":"has now come to his conclusions."},{"startTime":1381.55,"endTime":1384.86,"body":"They actually had already prior to"},{"startTime":1381.55,"endTime":1384.86,"body":"the pandemic, it just went unnoticed."},{"startTime":1385.34,"endTime":1390.11,"body":"You have a structural situation"},{"startTime":1385.34,"endTime":1390.11,"body":"going forward, where carriers"},{"startTime":1390.11,"endTime":1393.26,"body":"have a far larger degree of"},{"startTime":1390.11,"endTime":1393.26,"body":"pricing power than they ever had."},{"startTime":1393.62,"endTime":1395.149,"body":"That's because of the consolidation."},{"startTime":1395.33,"endTime":1396.59,"body":"That's not going to change."},{"startTime":1397.01,"endTime":1400.22,"body":"You have carriers that now"},{"startTime":1397.01,"endTime":1400.22,"body":"have acquired the ability."},{"startTime":1400.685,"endTime":1404.465,"body":"To tactically turn up and down"},{"startTime":1400.685,"endTime":1404.465,"body":"capacity to match it to demand."},{"startTime":1404.645,"endTime":1407.015,"body":"They don't have to start price"},{"startTime":1404.645,"endTime":1407.015,"body":"Wars to fill their ships."},{"startTime":1407.285,"endTime":1409.925,"body":"That's here to stay"},{"startTime":1407.285,"endTime":1409.925,"body":"irrespective of the pandemic."},{"startTime":1410.405,"endTime":1417.365,"body":"And on top of that, after 10 years of"},{"startTime":1410.405,"endTime":1417.365,"body":"gradually absorbing over capacity, 2021"},{"startTime":1417.365,"endTime":1421.085,"body":"is actually where you got to the point"},{"startTime":1417.365,"endTime":1421.085,"body":"where the overcapacity was absorbed."},{"startTime":1421.175,"endTime":1424.865,"body":"Irrespective of the pandemic you are"},{"startTime":1421.175,"endTime":1424.865,"body":"heading into a structural up cycle."},{"startTime":1425.345,"endTime":1427.685,"body":"Carriers are now beginning"},{"startTime":1425.345,"endTime":1427.685,"body":"to order vessels."},{"startTime":1428.254,"endTime":1431.375,"body":"More and more, but that"},{"startTime":1428.254,"endTime":1431.375,"body":"means this op cycle at the"},{"startTime":1431.375,"endTime":1434.284,"body":"earliest will end in 23 on 24."},{"startTime":1434.824,"endTime":1438.844,"body":"So the new normal that we will be getting"},{"startTime":1434.824,"endTime":1438.844,"body":"no matter whether we had a pandemic"},{"startTime":1438.844,"endTime":1442.985,"body":"or not is one where the pricing power,"},{"startTime":1438.844,"endTime":1442.985,"body":"the shippers have enjoyed over the"},{"startTime":1442.985,"endTime":1445.804,"body":"last 30 years has been severely eroded."},{"startTime":1446.135,"endTime":1450.875,"body":"It's a market where the carriers to a"},{"startTime":1446.135,"endTime":1450.875,"body":"much larger degree can control capacity."},{"startTime":1451.415,"endTime":1454.564,"body":"And it's an up cycle where you"},{"startTime":1451.415,"endTime":1454.564,"body":"will have temporary capacity"},{"startTime":1454.564,"endTime":1455.945,"body":"shortages, no matter what you do."},{"startTime":1457.01,"endTime":1462.14,"body":"So on that basis, Lars, do you believe"},{"startTime":1457.01,"endTime":1462.14,"body":"then that this new rate level we've"},{"startTime":1462.14,"endTime":1467.06,"body":"seen particularly to transpacific"},{"startTime":1462.14,"endTime":1467.06,"body":"that that rate is here to stay and"},{"startTime":1467.06,"endTime":1471.23,"body":"you would see less rate volatility"},{"startTime":1467.06,"endTime":1471.23,"body":"than he might've seen in years past?"},{"startTime":1472.34,"endTime":1473.75,"body":"Uh, that's two different questions."},{"startTime":1473.96,"endTime":1475.25,"body":"Let's say them one by one."},{"startTime":1475.25,"endTime":1479.45,"body":"The raid levels we see now is from"},{"startTime":1475.25,"endTime":1479.45,"body":"what I see overshooting the Mark."},{"startTime":1480.34,"endTime":1482.98,"body":"I clearly understand"},{"startTime":1480.34,"endTime":1482.98,"body":"the carrier's impetus."},{"startTime":1482.99,"endTime":1485.17,"body":"Of course, when you have an"},{"startTime":1482.99,"endTime":1485.17,"body":"extremely strong market, sure."},{"startTime":1485.17,"endTime":1487.97,"body":"You sell your product at the"},{"startTime":1485.17,"endTime":1487.97,"body":"price, you can sell it to 'em."},{"startTime":1488.06,"endTime":1488.78,"body":"I get that."},{"startTime":1490.1,"endTime":1491.3,"body":"It's overshooting the Mark."},{"startTime":1491.49,"endTime":1494.57,"body":"What is the level we should"},{"startTime":1491.49,"endTime":1494.57,"body":"expect going forward?"},{"startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.37,"body":"And what at least I have my eyes"},{"startTime":1494.78,"endTime":1499.37,"body":"fixed on is remember 2016 and"},{"startTime":1499.37,"endTime":1502.129,"body":"2016, the market crashed horribly."},{"startTime":1502.49,"endTime":1506.06,"body":"And if you look at the freight rates,"},{"startTime":1502.49,"endTime":1506.06,"body":"both spot and contracts in many trades,"},{"startTime":1506.06,"endTime":1511.639,"body":"it took an entire level shift down once,"},{"startTime":1506.06,"endTime":1511.639,"body":"which was of course, Warren did tactically"},{"startTime":1511.639,"endTime":1515.149,"body":"that year and the carriers had been trying"},{"startTime":1511.639,"endTime":1515.149,"body":"ever since to reverse that level shift."},{"startTime":1516.02,"endTime":1520.06,"body":"As a first fixed point of benchmark,"},{"startTime":1516.02,"endTime":1520.06,"body":"I would look for that leverage"},{"startTime":1520.06,"endTime":1524.21,"body":"shift to be permanently erased,"},{"startTime":1520.06,"endTime":1524.21,"body":"which means the level you should"},{"startTime":1524.21,"endTime":1525.95,"body":"be looking for as let's call it."},{"startTime":1525.95,"endTime":1530.72,"body":"The new normal is back where we were"},{"startTime":1525.95,"endTime":1530.72,"body":"in 2014, 2015, which is actually"},{"startTime":1530.72,"endTime":1535.07,"body":"substantially up compared to where"},{"startTime":1530.72,"endTime":1535.07,"body":"we were in 2019, but also quite a"},{"startTime":1535.07,"endTime":1538.01,"body":"bit lower than the prices that are"},{"startTime":1535.07,"endTime":1538.01,"body":"right now in the market, because the"},{"startTime":1538.01,"endTime":1541.88,"body":"ones right now of course are also"},{"startTime":1538.01,"endTime":1541.88,"body":"colored by the tactical situation."},{"startTime":1542.93,"endTime":1543.23,"body":"Then."},{"startTime":1543.62,"endTime":1545.27,"body":"The other one on the volatility."},{"startTime":1545.27,"endTime":1549.59,"body":"I w I would expect to see a much more"},{"startTime":1545.27,"endTime":1549.59,"body":"stable rate environment in the future."},{"startTime":1550.25,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"The way I look at it is again, because"},{"startTime":1550.25,"endTime":1553.94,"body":"of the carrier's ability to turn up"},{"startTime":1553.94,"endTime":1556.1,"body":"and down, uh, on the capacity side."},{"startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1560.21,"body":"So in the let's call it the good"},{"startTime":1556.55,"endTime":1560.21,"body":"old days, the normal state of"},{"startTime":1560.21,"endTime":1562.28,"body":"affairs was a permanent price war."},{"startTime":1562.639,"endTime":1566.06,"body":"And then there was a few festive events"},{"startTime":1562.639,"endTime":1566.06,"body":"where the carriers could turn up the"},{"startTime":1566.06,"endTime":1568.58,"body":"prices and make money going forward."},{"startTime":1568.82,"endTime":1570.409,"body":"I see it as the exact reverse."},{"startTime":1570.649,"endTime":1571.73,"body":"You're going to have a higher."},{"startTime":1572.18,"endTime":1574.34,"body":"But more stable price environment."},{"startTime":1574.7,"endTime":1577.879,"body":"And then yeah, on a few events, you"},{"startTime":1574.7,"endTime":1577.879,"body":"might have a price, war, and prices"},{"startTime":1577.879,"endTime":1580.879,"body":"will drop, but the balance between"},{"startTime":1577.879,"endTime":1580.879,"body":"the two are going to be reversed."},{"startTime":1582.34,"endTime":1585.67,"body":"So this is to both both of you guys."},{"startTime":1585.7,"endTime":1590.7,"body":"I, I think that shippers, because this"},{"startTime":1585.7,"endTime":1590.7,"body":"past year has been so difficult, they're,"},{"startTime":1590.7,"endTime":1592.659,"body":"they're looking for any Ray of hope and."},{"startTime":1593.135,"endTime":1597.125,"body":"So to see a headline, like somebody"},{"startTime":1593.135,"endTime":1597.125,"body":"like evergreen, you know, spend billions"},{"startTime":1597.125,"endTime":1600.905,"body":"of dollars on 20 new ships, or what"},{"startTime":1597.125,"endTime":1600.905,"body":"have you thinking that, Oh, maybe the"},{"startTime":1600.905,"endTime":1603.215,"body":"carriers are going back to their old ways."},{"startTime":1603.845,"endTime":1607.745,"body":"Uh, you know, Lars explained, even if they"},{"startTime":1603.845,"endTime":1607.745,"body":"are going back to their old ways, there's"},{"startTime":1607.965,"endTime":1610.745,"body":"still several years before we get there."},{"startTime":1611.135,"endTime":1615.155,"body":"But is there anything inside of,"},{"startTime":1611.135,"endTime":1615.155,"body":"of the numbers that say, maybe you"},{"startTime":1615.155,"endTime":1619.024,"body":"don't get excited yet shippers, that"},{"startTime":1615.155,"endTime":1619.024,"body":"this is either replacement tonnage"},{"startTime":1619.054,"endTime":1621.635,"body":"or it tends to more lean towards."},{"startTime":1622.11,"endTime":1626.73,"body":"Uh, trying to meet environmental"},{"startTime":1622.11,"endTime":1626.73,"body":"goals or maybe the ships aren't"},{"startTime":1626.73,"endTime":1628.38,"body":"even as big as, as they are today."},{"startTime":1628.38,"endTime":1631.71,"body":"I w w what would you look at"},{"startTime":1628.38,"endTime":1631.71,"body":"inside of the data that would say"},{"startTime":1631.8,"endTime":1633.51,"body":"don't, don't get too excited yet."},{"startTime":1634.639,"endTime":1634.81,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1634.81,"endTime":1636.62,"body":"I mean, first things first."},{"startTime":1636.62,"endTime":1640.669,"body":"I mean, until recently the audit book"},{"startTime":1636.62,"endTime":1640.669,"body":"was still only at about 10%, which was"},{"startTime":1640.669,"endTime":1642.53,"body":"even not enough for replacement on it."},{"startTime":1642.56,"endTime":1644.84,"body":"Now we are pushing about 15%."},{"startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1647.179,"body":"So finally it's beginning to"},{"startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1647.179,"body":"look a little like something."},{"startTime":1647.87,"endTime":1651.71,"body":"Um, when I look at the vessels that"},{"startTime":1647.87,"endTime":1651.71,"body":"are being ordered increasingly, uh,"},{"startTime":1651.74,"endTime":1653.45,"body":"the carriers are taking a step down."},{"startTime":1653.45,"endTime":1657.08,"body":"Most of the orders coming in"},{"startTime":1653.45,"endTime":1657.08,"body":"now that's the 14, 15,000 TEU"},{"startTime":1657.08,"endTime":1658.58,"body":"range, not the ultra large ones."},{"startTime":1659.09,"endTime":1659.179,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1659.355,"endTime":1663.314,"body":"I see that as a positive sign and"},{"startTime":1659.355,"endTime":1663.314,"body":"actually the shippers should also"},{"startTime":1663.314,"endTime":1668.655,"body":"long-term see it as a positive sign"},{"startTime":1663.314,"endTime":1668.655,"body":"because going down slightly in size,"},{"startTime":1668.655,"endTime":1673.185,"body":"that means that the carriers rather than"},{"startTime":1668.655,"endTime":1673.185,"body":"go for ultra large ships would rather"},{"startTime":1673.185,"endTime":1675.044,"body":"go for a higher service frequency."},{"startTime":1675.044,"endTime":1677.504,"body":"You're going to have war more"},{"startTime":1675.044,"endTime":1677.504,"body":"weekly services with that kind of,"},{"startTime":1677.504,"endTime":1680.925,"body":"sort of tarnish, which at the end"},{"startTime":1677.504,"endTime":1680.925,"body":"of the day would also mean you can"},{"startTime":1680.925,"endTime":1682.635,"body":"cover more port pairs directly."},{"startTime":1682.635,"endTime":1684.465,"body":"You will have a more fine grain network."},{"startTime":1685.085,"endTime":1688.745,"body":"But that's not going to be something"},{"startTime":1685.085,"endTime":1688.745,"body":"you will see the effect of for"},{"startTime":1688.745,"endTime":1689.825,"body":"the next two or three years."},{"startTime":1692.905,"endTime":1698.155,"body":"Yeah, I think that, um, with the order"},{"startTime":1692.905,"endTime":1698.155,"body":"book, there's just certain challenges"},{"startTime":1698.155,"endTime":1704.005,"body":"that carriers have in terms of thinking"},{"startTime":1698.155,"endTime":1704.005,"body":"about ordering ships and thinking about"},{"startTime":1704.065,"endTime":1710.335,"body":"what they're going to do with their,"},{"startTime":1704.065,"endTime":1710.335,"body":"uh, environmental emissions policy and"},{"startTime":1710.335,"endTime":1712.225,"body":"how do they, how do they tackle that?"},{"startTime":1712.555,"endTime":1715.55,"body":"I think that there's, um,"},{"startTime":1712.555,"endTime":1715.55,"body":"Quite a bit of thought."},{"startTime":1715.55,"endTime":1720.29,"body":"I think some carriers have come out"},{"startTime":1715.55,"endTime":1720.29,"body":"already and given their, uh, ambitions"},{"startTime":1720.29,"endTime":1722.27,"body":"to be carbon neutral at a certain point."},{"startTime":1722.6,"endTime":1725.96,"body":"I think there are certain"},{"startTime":1722.6,"endTime":1725.96,"body":"implications on the vessel side."},{"startTime":1726.23,"endTime":1732.71,"body":"You can see that LNG is a way forward for"},{"startTime":1726.23,"endTime":1732.71,"body":"some carriers, but, um, you know, you,"},{"startTime":1732.77,"endTime":1736.85,"body":"it's, it's very difficult to convert a"},{"startTime":1732.77,"endTime":1736.85,"body":"ship or very expensive to convert a ship."},{"startTime":1737.36,"endTime":1739.07,"body":"Uh, an existing ship to LNG."},{"startTime":1739.07,"endTime":1742.28,"body":"So does that mean that you"},{"startTime":1739.07,"endTime":1742.28,"body":"have to acquire new ships?"},{"startTime":1742.73,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"I think these are some of the"},{"startTime":1742.73,"endTime":1746.12,"body":"things that carriers are looking at."},{"startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1750.23,"body":"I think we're all, probably NASA was"},{"startTime":1746.12,"endTime":1750.23,"body":"just talking about, uh, this very thing,"},{"startTime":1750.29,"endTime":1754.4,"body":"uh, because they converted one of their"},{"startTime":1750.29,"endTime":1754.4,"body":"ships to LNG and it was quite expensive."},{"startTime":1754.79,"endTime":1758.69,"body":"So, um, but it's, it's, it's"},{"startTime":1754.79,"endTime":1758.69,"body":"something carriers are looking"},{"startTime":1758.69,"endTime":1759.83,"body":"at and experimenting with."},{"startTime":1759.86,"endTime":1761.0,"body":"And I think until."},{"startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1765.83,"body":"They're clear on the cost implications"},{"startTime":1761.45,"endTime":1765.83,"body":"and what that looks like and"},{"startTime":1765.889,"endTime":1767.09,"body":"decide on their way forward."},{"startTime":1767.389,"endTime":1770.33,"body":"Then you're going to see a little"},{"startTime":1767.389,"endTime":1770.33,"body":"bit more comfort in terms of the"},{"startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1773.629,"body":"order book and how carriers are"},{"startTime":1770.33,"endTime":1773.629,"body":"going to start ordering ships."},{"startTime":1773.659,"endTime":1776.929,"body":"But I still think there's a"},{"startTime":1773.659,"endTime":1776.929,"body":"lot of questions around that"},{"startTime":1776.96,"endTime":1779.87,"body":"carbon neutral, um, ambition."},{"startTime":1779.899,"endTime":1781.55,"body":"And, and what does it mean?"},{"startTime":1781.55,"endTime":1783.02,"body":"And what's it going to take to get there?"},{"startTime":1783.32,"endTime":1787.7,"body":"And once that starts to become clear,"},{"startTime":1783.32,"endTime":1787.7,"body":"then carriers are going to become"},{"startTime":1787.7,"endTime":1790.79,"body":"more comfortable with, uh, replacing"},{"startTime":1787.7,"endTime":1790.79,"body":"some of the ships they have today."},{"startTime":1791.885,"endTime":1795.515,"body":"You just as a side comment here, this"},{"startTime":1791.885,"endTime":1795.515,"body":"is also where the fallout from Suez"},{"startTime":1795.515,"endTime":1799.205,"body":"is going to be interesting to watch"},{"startTime":1795.515,"endTime":1799.205,"body":"because there has clearly been a"},{"startTime":1799.205,"endTime":1804.365,"body":"ramp up in the focus on environmental"},{"startTime":1799.205,"endTime":1804.365,"body":"emissions, also from shipping in recent"},{"startTime":1804.365,"endTime":1808.565,"body":"years, as long as the Suez has closed,"},{"startTime":1804.365,"endTime":1808.565,"body":"forcing everybody to go around Africa."},{"startTime":1808.925,"endTime":1812.375,"body":"This is going to have a major"},{"startTime":1808.925,"endTime":1812.375,"body":"impact on the emissions numbers,"},{"startTime":1812.375,"endTime":1815.405,"body":"not just from container shipping,"},{"startTime":1812.375,"endTime":1815.405,"body":"but from all shipping lines."},{"startTime":1815.795,"endTime":1818.075,"body":"And there really isn't"},{"startTime":1815.795,"endTime":1818.075,"body":"any alternative right now."},{"startTime":1818.105,"endTime":1820.535,"body":"That's going to cause a major"},{"startTime":1818.105,"endTime":1820.535,"body":"stir at some point as well."},{"startTime":1821.689,"endTime":1822.11,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1822.379,"endTime":1826.129,"body":"You know, I just wonder inside of the"},{"startTime":1822.379,"endTime":1826.129,"body":"technologies, do you do either one of you"},{"startTime":1826.129,"endTime":1830.629,"body":"have any insights as to maybe what some of"},{"startTime":1826.129,"endTime":1830.629,"body":"the leading tech I know technologies are?"},{"startTime":1830.629,"endTime":1836.179,"body":"I know that people are testing LNG, some"},{"startTime":1830.629,"endTime":1836.179,"body":"are still retrofitting with scrubbers."},{"startTime":1836.179,"endTime":1839.27,"body":"Is, is there anything that looks"},{"startTime":1836.179,"endTime":1839.27,"body":"like it's leading or is it still"},{"startTime":1839.27,"endTime":1841.189,"body":"just really in test and learn phase,"},{"startTime":1843.23,"endTime":1844.929,"body":"at least what I've seen so far?"},{"startTime":1844.929,"endTime":1846.34,"body":"It appears to be in a."},{"startTime":1846.8,"endTime":1849.23,"body":"Let's call it test and"},{"startTime":1846.8,"endTime":1849.23,"body":"learn, but not quite."},{"startTime":1849.23,"endTime":1852.95,"body":"I mean, I think a good indication"},{"startTime":1849.23,"endTime":1852.95,"body":"is for example, the announcement"},{"startTime":1852.95,"endTime":1857.18,"body":"from Maersk a few weeks ago, that"},{"startTime":1852.95,"endTime":1857.18,"body":"they were going to order a methanol"},{"startTime":1857.35,"endTime":1860.18,"body":"feeder ship for delivery in 2023."},{"startTime":1860.8,"endTime":1864.58,"body":"The interesting part about that"},{"startTime":1860.8,"endTime":1864.58,"body":"is at least as a reasonable size"},{"startTime":1864.59,"endTime":1866.86,"body":"ship is a 2000 TEU feeder ship."},{"startTime":1867.95,"endTime":1873.26,"body":"Because ships of that size in other"},{"startTime":1867.95,"endTime":1873.26,"body":"sectors already exist running on methanol."},{"startTime":1873.47,"endTime":1877.26,"body":"So when we saying trials, it's"},{"startTime":1873.47,"endTime":1877.26,"body":"not like it's a  five TEU ship."},{"startTime":1877.26,"endTime":1882.26,"body":"It's not a maker carrier either, but, and"},{"startTime":1877.26,"endTime":1882.26,"body":"this might be where, I mean, remember my"},{"startTime":1882.26,"endTime":1887.24,"body":"background is in theory, not in practice,"},{"startTime":1882.26,"endTime":1887.24,"body":"actually theoretical physics, but, but"},{"startTime":1887.24,"endTime":1891.65,"body":"the way I always look at it is if you can"},{"startTime":1887.24,"endTime":1891.65,"body":"build something as a workable prototype,"},{"startTime":1892.73,"endTime":1895.16,"body":"Then it is just a matter of scaling."},{"startTime":1895.16,"endTime":1899.12,"body":"And if engineering has turned"},{"startTime":1895.16,"endTime":1899.12,"body":"humanity, learned humanity, anything"},{"startTime":1899.12,"endTime":1903.5,"body":"over the last 200 years is once"},{"startTime":1899.12,"endTime":1903.5,"body":"something actually works, making"},{"startTime":1903.5,"endTime":1905.6,"body":"it smaller and more powerful."},{"startTime":1905.81,"endTime":1907.1,"body":"That's just a matter of time."},{"startTime":1907.49,"endTime":1911.08,"body":"And when I look at all these different"},{"startTime":1907.49,"endTime":1911.08,"body":"fuels, not just methanol, but all about"},{"startTime":1911.08,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"the hydrogen and ammonia and all the other"},{"startTime":1911.08,"endTime":1915.05,"body":"ones, we're at a point where it works."},{"startTime":1915.08,"endTime":1916.75,"body":"W we do have working prototypes."},{"startTime":1916.75,"endTime":1920.09,"body":"So it is not cutting it science anymore."},{"startTime":1920.12,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"It is said."},{"startTime":1921.245,"endTime":1923.465,"body":"Good old fashioned hard"},{"startTime":1921.245,"endTime":1923.465,"body":"work on engineering."},{"startTime":1923.465,"endTime":1924.905,"body":"How do we then scale it?"},{"startTime":1925.445,"endTime":1928.235,"body":"And that's where we have again."},{"startTime":1928.235,"endTime":1932.195,"body":"And again, seen that is to something"},{"startTime":1928.235,"endTime":1932.195,"body":"that just takes time, but it will happen"},{"startTime":1932.825,"endTime":1934.745,"body":"where we make it in time for 2030."},{"startTime":1935.165,"endTime":1938.705,"body":"I don't necessarily have a good bet,"},{"startTime":1935.165,"endTime":1938.705,"body":"but if I was to look at my gut, feel."},{"startTime":1939.32,"endTime":1940.79,"body":"I would tend to lean towards yes."},{"startTime":1940.79,"endTime":1941.659,"body":"That is entirely"},{"startTime":1941.659,"endTime":1942.139,"body":"feasible."},{"startTime":1942.28,"endTime":1942.55,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1943.209,"endTime":1944.979,"body":"Well, it's, it's great perspective."},{"startTime":1945.04,"endTime":1948.1,"body":"Um, Don, you bring up, uh,"},{"startTime":1945.04,"endTime":1948.1,"body":"an issue before too, right?"},{"startTime":1948.1,"endTime":1951.159,"body":"There's going to be some cost"},{"startTime":1948.1,"endTime":1951.159,"body":"implications to all this and you"},{"startTime":1951.159,"endTime":1952.36,"body":"know, who ends up paying for it?"},{"startTime":1952.36,"endTime":1953.219,"body":"I don't know, but."},{"startTime":1953.855,"endTime":1957.725,"body":"I know shippers with, you know,"},{"startTime":1953.855,"endTime":1957.725,"body":"spot level rates at six and $8,000."},{"startTime":1957.725,"endTime":1961.445,"body":"Certainly don't want to look to pay"},{"startTime":1957.725,"endTime":1961.445,"body":"for anything else at this point."},{"startTime":1961.475,"endTime":1965.885,"body":"But, but I think it, it leads to, to"},{"startTime":1961.475,"endTime":1965.885,"body":"kind of the, the discussion around"},{"startTime":1966.005,"endTime":1969.845,"body":"the situ I think that we we've talked"},{"startTime":1966.005,"endTime":1969.845,"body":"about this structural situation."},{"startTime":1969.845,"endTime":1973.745,"body":"There's no doubt that the carriers"},{"startTime":1969.845,"endTime":1973.745,"body":"have a leverage this year."},{"startTime":1973.745,"endTime":1979.025,"body":"And in terms of negotiating with"},{"startTime":1973.745,"endTime":1979.025,"body":"shippers and you see headlines like"},{"startTime":1979.085,"endTime":1982.535,"body":"carriers, cherry picking customers"},{"startTime":1979.085,"endTime":1982.535,"body":"as rates continue to head North."},{"startTime":1982.879,"endTime":1987.93,"body":"In the load star or seismic change,"},{"startTime":1982.879,"endTime":1987.93,"body":"Maris commits long-term to longterm"},{"startTime":1987.95,"endTime":1989.27,"body":"relationships with shippers."},{"startTime":1989.31,"endTime":1995.3,"body":"Do you see this structural move and"},{"startTime":1989.31,"endTime":1995.3,"body":"the carriers now being in a position to"},{"startTime":1995.3,"endTime":1997.669,"body":"treat and engaged customers differently."},{"startTime":1997.669,"endTime":1998.93,"body":"Do you see that now?"},{"startTime":1999.2,"endTime":2000.73,"body":"Really starting to take effect."},{"startTime":2003.735,"endTime":2008.445,"body":"I mean from my side, I think that,"},{"startTime":2003.735,"endTime":2008.445,"body":"um, you know, with the leverage,"},{"startTime":2008.445,"endTime":2010.784,"body":"the carriers have is that they have"},{"startTime":2008.445,"endTime":2010.784,"body":"the opportunity to be selective."},{"startTime":2010.814,"endTime":2013.004,"body":"And I think they're looking"},{"startTime":2010.814,"endTime":2013.004,"body":"at a variety of things."},{"startTime":2013.364,"endTime":2016.155,"body":"I think they're looking"},{"startTime":2013.364,"endTime":2016.155,"body":"at a cost to serve."},{"startTime":2016.514,"endTime":2022.604,"body":"Um, so if you create a bunch of costs"},{"startTime":2016.514,"endTime":2022.604,"body":"internally and, um, then you have"},{"startTime":2022.695,"endTime":2028.215,"body":"a below average yield, then, then"},{"startTime":2022.695,"endTime":2028.215,"body":"carriers might be looking to reduce."},{"startTime":2028.645,"endTime":2031.105,"body":"The amount of volume they"},{"startTime":2028.645,"endTime":2031.105,"body":"carry with certain customers."},{"startTime":2031.135,"endTime":2033.475,"body":"I think there's other"},{"startTime":2031.135,"endTime":2033.475,"body":"customers which fit a strategy."},{"startTime":2033.865,"endTime":2038.635,"body":"And with, if it's aligned with carriers,"},{"startTime":2033.865,"endTime":2038.635,"body":"growth ambitions, whether that's out"},{"startTime":2038.635,"endTime":2043.975,"body":"of a certain region to another region"},{"startTime":2038.635,"endTime":2043.975,"body":"or, um, the overall growth that they"},{"startTime":2043.975,"endTime":2048.355,"body":"might have, and a customer will fit"},{"startTime":2043.975,"endTime":2048.355,"body":"into that maybe it's entering into"},{"startTime":2048.355,"endTime":2050.005,"body":"new trade lanes and things like that."},{"startTime":2050.395,"endTime":2055.255,"body":"I think carriers have the luxury to"},{"startTime":2050.395,"endTime":2055.255,"body":"be a lot more selective and strategic."},{"startTime":2055.734,"endTime":2058.554,"body":"Um, then they might've been in the"},{"startTime":2055.734,"endTime":2058.554,"body":"past because the situation in the"},{"startTime":2058.554,"endTime":2063.864,"body":"past was they were always trying to"},{"startTime":2058.554,"endTime":2063.864,"body":"sign up cargo to fill their ship."},{"startTime":2064.225,"endTime":2068.424,"body":"And the struggle was always to make"},{"startTime":2064.225,"endTime":2068.424,"body":"sure the ship has fall while that that's"},{"startTime":2068.424,"endTime":2073.045,"body":"changed, that carriers are having very"},{"startTime":2068.424,"endTime":2073.045,"body":"little trouble filling their ships."},{"startTime":2073.045,"endTime":2077.004,"body":"The biggest challenge for, for carriers"},{"startTime":2073.045,"endTime":2077.004,"body":"is of course managing the fall down"},{"startTime":2077.004,"endTime":2080.545,"body":"and making sure they can get that"},{"startTime":2077.004,"endTime":2080.545,"body":"right, because there's still a fair"},{"startTime":2080.545,"endTime":2082.335,"body":"amount of fall down and ghost bookings."},{"startTime":2082.885,"endTime":2085.735,"body":"That starts to turn into a different"},{"startTime":2082.885,"endTime":2085.735,"body":"topic, but to answer your question,"},{"startTime":2086.035,"endTime":2087.655,"body":"I think that they're there."},{"startTime":2088.405,"endTime":2092.305,"body":"What I hear from carriers is there's a lot"},{"startTime":2088.405,"endTime":2092.305,"body":"of thought around certain customers that"},{"startTime":2092.305,"endTime":2096.445,"body":"make a ton of sense, and you can see the"},{"startTime":2092.305,"endTime":2096.445,"body":"carriers lean in, try and sign multi-year"},{"startTime":2096.445,"endTime":2098.185,"body":"deals or take a different approach."},{"startTime":2098.455,"endTime":2101.635,"body":"Whereas other customers, you can"},{"startTime":2098.455,"endTime":2101.635,"body":"hear they're being shut out and"},{"startTime":2101.635,"endTime":2103.975,"body":"restricted and there's, there's"},{"startTime":2101.635,"endTime":2103.975,"body":"different reasons for that."},{"startTime":2104.305,"endTime":2107.695,"body":"So the selectivity and the carriers is"},{"startTime":2104.305,"endTime":2107.695,"body":"definitely being felt by the market."},{"startTime":2109.089,"endTime":2112.99,"body":"No, I would also tend to look at it this"},{"startTime":2109.089,"endTime":2112.99,"body":"way and say, if I'm in the market right"},{"startTime":2112.99,"endTime":2114.97,"body":"now, clearly is in the carrier's favor."},{"startTime":2114.97,"endTime":2120.779,"body":"And the carrier is also using that for all"},{"startTime":2114.97,"endTime":2120.779,"body":"that is I think before we see a new one."},{"startTime":2120.779,"endTime":2120.839,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2120.959,"endTime":2122.1,"body":"Morality established."},{"startTime":2122.1,"endTime":2124.62,"body":"And as I was saying before, me,"},{"startTime":2122.1,"endTime":2124.62,"body":"not very much lean towards that new"},{"startTime":2124.62,"endTime":2128.1,"body":"mallet, not new normality, being"},{"startTime":2124.62,"endTime":2128.1,"body":"more in the carrier's favor than"},{"startTime":2128.1,"endTime":2129.93,"body":"what we've seen in many decades."},{"startTime":2129.93,"endTime":2134.49,"body":"I think we still need to go through"},{"startTime":2129.93,"endTime":2134.49,"body":"another swing of the pendulum because"},{"startTime":2135.12,"endTime":2136.529,"body":"the last year, I mean, they've."},{"startTime":2137.319,"endTime":2139.39,"body":"To be honest, too few are"},{"startTime":2137.319,"endTime":2139.39,"body":"shipped, but what have you seen?"},{"startTime":2139.39,"endTime":2142.66,"body":"You've seen your rate quadruple"},{"startTime":2139.39,"endTime":2142.66,"body":"and quintuple and service levels go"},{"startTime":2142.66,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"through the floor that is not going"},{"startTime":2142.66,"endTime":2146.62,"body":"to leave a happy customer, no matter"},{"startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2149.52,"body":"what, what the rational explanations"},{"startTime":2146.62,"endTime":2149.52,"body":"for those developments have been,"},{"startTime":2150.15,"endTime":2153.299,"body":"which it means I also believe we"},{"startTime":2150.15,"endTime":2153.299,"body":"need to go through another round."},{"startTime":2153.299,"endTime":2157.049,"body":"This is where the carriers are going"},{"startTime":2153.299,"endTime":2157.049,"body":"to have a hard job ahead them because"},{"startTime":2157.08,"endTime":2162.299,"body":"they need to mend the relationships"},{"startTime":2157.08,"endTime":2162.299,"body":"with a lot of customers over this,"},{"startTime":2162.33,"endTime":2165.509,"body":"uh, absolutely that we have to"},{"startTime":2162.33,"endTime":2165.509,"body":"go through that phase as well."},{"startTime":2166.855,"endTime":2167.214,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2167.245,"endTime":2170.274,"body":"And for me as a shipper, we"},{"startTime":2167.245,"endTime":2170.274,"body":"we've, we've done webinars."},{"startTime":2170.274,"endTime":2175.404,"body":"And we've talked about this idea that,"},{"startTime":2170.274,"endTime":2175.404,"body":"that you now have to, to be essentially"},{"startTime":2175.404,"endTime":2176.995,"body":"this, this customer of choice."},{"startTime":2176.995,"endTime":2177.325,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":2177.355,"endTime":2181.165,"body":"You know, if carriers now have this"},{"startTime":2177.355,"endTime":2181.165,"body":"newfound leverage where they are going"},{"startTime":2181.165,"endTime":2187.315,"body":"to be selectively taking shippers that"},{"startTime":2181.165,"endTime":2187.315,"body":"match a certain profile or, or help them."},{"startTime":2187.915,"endTime":2192.085,"body":"Um, from a, from a network perspective,"},{"startTime":2187.915,"endTime":2192.085,"body":"you've got to make sure that"},{"startTime":2192.085,"endTime":2194.665,"body":"carriers know what you have to offer."},{"startTime":2194.815,"endTime":2199.465,"body":"So where you do have global volumes"},{"startTime":2194.815,"endTime":2199.465,"body":"and you know, how you forecast and"},{"startTime":2199.465,"endTime":2202.915,"body":"how you plan and how you interact with"},{"startTime":2199.465,"endTime":2202.915,"body":"your carrier partners, I think is, is"},{"startTime":2202.915,"endTime":2204.415,"body":"going to be more important than ever."},{"startTime":2204.535,"endTime":2208.825,"body":"And if you haven't built out those"},{"startTime":2204.535,"endTime":2208.825,"body":"capabilities, you certainly need to"},{"startTime":2208.945,"endTime":2211.075,"body":"start building out those capabilities."},{"startTime":2211.075,"endTime":2214.825,"body":"Because if this truly is a structural"},{"startTime":2211.075,"endTime":2214.825,"body":"move, In somewhat of the new"},{"startTime":2214.825,"endTime":2218.995,"body":"normal, um, I think you've gotta"},{"startTime":2214.825,"endTime":2218.995,"body":"be ready for it now, personally."},{"startTime":2218.995,"endTime":2223.075,"body":"I think that it's good overall for, for"},{"startTime":2218.995,"endTime":2223.075,"body":"the industry, more transparency, more"},{"startTime":2223.075,"endTime":2227.245,"body":"planning, more collaboration is going"},{"startTime":2223.075,"endTime":2227.245,"body":"to create efficiency for, for everyone."},{"startTime":2227.845,"endTime":2233.215,"body":"But I think this is certainly going to"},{"startTime":2227.845,"endTime":2233.215,"body":"force, um, or accelerate some of, some"},{"startTime":2233.215,"endTime":2237.355,"body":"of that work that I think, you know, both"},{"startTime":2233.215,"endTime":2237.355,"body":"shippers and carriers need to do, but."},{"startTime":2238.015,"endTime":2240.265,"body":"If you're a shipper and you"},{"startTime":2238.015,"endTime":2240.265,"body":"haven't started on that journey,"},{"startTime":2240.415,"endTime":2244.255,"body":"you better start this year and,"},{"startTime":2240.415,"endTime":2244.255,"body":"uh, and make meaningful strides."},{"startTime":2244.285,"endTime":2249.355,"body":"If I think you want your cargo to"},{"startTime":2244.285,"endTime":2249.355,"body":"be attractive to carriers, obviously"},{"startTime":2249.355,"endTime":2253.075,"body":"we've talked about, you know, being"},{"startTime":2249.355,"endTime":2253.075,"body":"a fair, a fair rate and a profitable"},{"startTime":2253.075,"endTime":2256.705,"body":"rate, but I think there's going to"},{"startTime":2253.075,"endTime":2256.705,"body":"be much more than rate that allows a"},{"startTime":2256.705,"endTime":2258.925,"body":"carrier to say that this is a customer."},{"startTime":2261.67,"endTime":2265.24,"body":"No, but, um, but, but maybe to"},{"startTime":2261.67,"endTime":2265.24,"body":"latch onto that and then stop me"},{"startTime":2265.24,"endTime":2267.52,"body":"if I'm getting to strain too far."},{"startTime":2268.02,"endTime":2274.95,"body":"But once we we've also here talked a lot"},{"startTime":2268.02,"endTime":2274.95,"body":"about the capacity and volume and rates."},{"startTime":2274.95,"endTime":2279.54,"body":"One thing we haven't talked about"},{"startTime":2274.95,"endTime":2279.54,"body":"is what is the differentiation the"},{"startTime":2279.54,"endTime":2280.89,"body":"carriers can bring to the table."},{"startTime":2280.89,"endTime":2284.28,"body":"We ma we make it sound like they're"},{"startTime":2280.89,"endTime":2284.28,"body":"all selling exactly the same"},{"startTime":2284.28,"endTime":2285.87,"body":"and exactly the same commodity."},{"startTime":2286.72,"endTime":2288.94,"body":"And I don't think that"},{"startTime":2286.72,"endTime":2288.94,"body":"necessarily is true."},{"startTime":2288.97,"endTime":2292.57,"body":"I mean, let's go back to where we started"},{"startTime":2288.97,"endTime":2292.57,"body":"this conversation in the beginning and"},{"startTime":2292.57,"endTime":2296.92,"body":"say, let's look at, for example, then we"},{"startTime":2292.57,"endTime":2296.92,"body":"have the, all the carriers that announced"},{"startTime":2296.92,"endTime":2298.99,"body":"stock in a line down to the Suez canal."},{"startTime":2298.99,"endTime":2301.81,"body":"There's not a single carrier that"},{"startTime":2298.99,"endTime":2301.81,"body":"can differentiate servers there."},{"startTime":2301.9,"endTime":2306.67,"body":"I mean, they're all just stuck in the"},{"startTime":2301.9,"endTime":2306.67,"body":"same queue, but where the differentiation"},{"startTime":2306.67,"endTime":2308.02,"body":"then comes in is okay, fine."},{"startTime":2308.02,"endTime":2310.72,"body":"Then eventually you may get out"},{"startTime":2308.02,"endTime":2310.72,"body":"of the ketchup bottle and you"},{"startTime":2310.72,"endTime":2312.25,"body":"have all these piles of cargo."},{"startTime":2313.195,"endTime":2317.455,"body":"Who then has the best network on"},{"startTime":2313.195,"endTime":2317.455,"body":"the ground to help the customers"},{"startTime":2317.485,"endTime":2321.925,"body":"navigate, to get the cargo out rapidly,"},{"startTime":2317.485,"endTime":2321.925,"body":"to actually be available, to get a"},{"startTime":2321.925,"endTime":2325.735,"body":"truck, to get a chassis, to get a"},{"startTime":2321.925,"endTime":2325.735,"body":"rail car when it is actually needed."},{"startTime":2325.945,"endTime":2328.645,"body":"That is where all the"},{"startTime":2325.945,"endTime":2328.645,"body":"opportunities for differentiation"},{"startTime":2328.705,"endTime":2330.025,"body":"actually starts to come up."},{"startTime":2330.205,"endTime":2334.045,"body":"It's not on the vessels themselves,"},{"startTime":2330.205,"endTime":2334.045,"body":"even though we tend to talk a lot about"},{"startTime":2334.045,"endTime":2339.415,"body":"those, but that's actually the important"},{"startTime":2334.045,"endTime":2339.415,"body":"part where the bulk of both the value"},{"startTime":2339.415,"endTime":2341.305,"body":"add, and also the competition is going"},{"startTime":2341.305,"endTime":2341.485,"body":"to."},{"startTime":2342.31,"endTime":2345.52,"body":"And Don, when you look at carriers, are"},{"startTime":2342.31,"endTime":2345.52,"body":"there, are there certain carriers that,"},{"startTime":2345.55,"endTime":2348.16,"body":"that are set up to capitalize on that?"},{"startTime":2348.16,"endTime":2351.34,"body":"Because I think certainly from a"},{"startTime":2348.16,"endTime":2351.34,"body":"shipper perspective, there's a lot"},{"startTime":2351.34,"endTime":2355.87,"body":"of attractiveness to be able to, to"},{"startTime":2351.34,"endTime":2355.87,"body":"start to get into discussions that"},{"startTime":2355.87,"endTime":2359.26,"body":"are much more around predictability"},{"startTime":2355.87,"endTime":2359.26,"body":"we've we've certainly talked about,"},{"startTime":2359.29,"endTime":2361.12,"body":"you know, getting specific commitments."},{"startTime":2361.57,"endTime":2365.95,"body":"Uh, and, and right now, as Laura"},{"startTime":2361.57,"endTime":2365.95,"body":"said, Uh, a commitment now is just,"},{"startTime":2366.009,"endTime":2368.649,"body":"you know, getting out and getting"},{"startTime":2366.009,"endTime":2368.649,"body":"a piece of equipment, getting on"},{"startTime":2368.649,"endTime":2369.85,"body":"a ship and not getting rolled."},{"startTime":2369.85,"endTime":2375.339,"body":"But this idea, maybe somewhere when"},{"startTime":2369.85,"endTime":2375.339,"body":"networks settle more of this time,"},{"startTime":2375.339,"endTime":2380.259,"body":"definite guarantee on arrivals or being"},{"startTime":2375.339,"endTime":2380.259,"body":"able to connect to other nodes of the"},{"startTime":2380.259,"endTime":2385.629,"body":"supply chain that help fulfill, um,"},{"startTime":2380.259,"endTime":2385.629,"body":"closer to, uh, distribution points."},{"startTime":2385.66,"endTime":2389.41,"body":"Do you see certain carrier networks,"},{"startTime":2385.66,"endTime":2389.41,"body":"better position to be able to execute?"},{"startTime":2389.41,"endTime":2392.589,"body":"Not just promise it, but be"},{"startTime":2389.41,"endTime":2392.589,"body":"able to execute at a high level."},{"startTime":2393.835,"endTime":2394.105,"body":"Uh,"},{"startTime":2394.105,"endTime":2394.645,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":2394.975,"endTime":2395.455,"body":"I do."},{"startTime":2395.455,"endTime":2400.465,"body":"I think, um, what you find is that"},{"startTime":2395.455,"endTime":2400.465,"body":"carriers that have some sort of"},{"startTime":2400.465,"endTime":2404.725,"body":"terminal position are able to get"},{"startTime":2400.465,"endTime":2404.725,"body":"some sort of priority or cut corners"},{"startTime":2404.725,"endTime":2406.885,"body":"there and, and jump the line."},{"startTime":2407.215,"endTime":2410.335,"body":"Um, I think you've seen that"},{"startTime":2407.215,"endTime":2410.335,"body":"with, uh, how carriers have"},{"startTime":2410.335,"endTime":2412.045,"body":"built some priority services."},{"startTime":2412.435,"endTime":2415.075,"body":"Um, you saw that on the West"},{"startTime":2412.435,"endTime":2415.075,"body":"coast with priority discharge"},{"startTime":2415.075,"endTime":2416.475,"body":"and making containers available."},{"startTime":2416.745,"endTime":2421.06,"body":"If you have the ability to, to work"},{"startTime":2416.745,"endTime":2421.06,"body":"with the terminals, of course, This"},{"startTime":2421.06,"endTime":2422.5,"body":"is a bit of a different situation."},{"startTime":2422.5,"endTime":2427.24,"body":"Obviously we're talking about where you"},{"startTime":2422.5,"endTime":2427.24,"body":"have a severe congestion in the terminals,"},{"startTime":2427.24,"endTime":2431.02,"body":"but I think that your relationship,"},{"startTime":2427.24,"endTime":2431.02,"body":"the carrier's relationship with the"},{"startTime":2431.02,"endTime":2432.28,"body":"terminal is going to make a difference."},{"startTime":2432.79,"endTime":2438.07,"body":"I also think that, um, this is"},{"startTime":2432.79,"endTime":2438.07,"body":"where, you know, the merch and CMA"},{"startTime":2438.07,"endTime":2444.04,"body":"model, where they have a forwarding"},{"startTime":2438.07,"endTime":2444.04,"body":"component that, uh, I know from my"},{"startTime":2444.04,"endTime":2447.73,"body":"time at CMA, that, that, that, that"},{"startTime":2444.04,"endTime":2447.73,"body":"gave them certain opportunities."},{"startTime":2448.045,"endTime":2452.425,"body":"To use Eva to then take on some"},{"startTime":2448.045,"endTime":2452.425,"body":"different landside capabilities and"},{"startTime":2452.425,"endTime":2457.105,"body":"do some different things outside"},{"startTime":2452.425,"endTime":2457.105,"body":"of the typical carrier framework."},{"startTime":2457.105,"endTime":2460.855,"body":"So I do think there's things"},{"startTime":2457.105,"endTime":2460.855,"body":"carriers can do, um, and that"},{"startTime":2460.855,"endTime":2462.265,"body":"they're certainly willing to do."},{"startTime":2462.535,"endTime":2466.285,"body":"And there's, you're going to have some"},{"startTime":2462.535,"endTime":2466.285,"body":"position if you have the scale, the"},{"startTime":2466.285,"endTime":2469.915,"body":"terminal relationship, or if you have"},{"startTime":2466.285,"endTime":2469.915,"body":"a forwarder connection, I think all"},{"startTime":2469.915,"endTime":2473.005,"body":"those things can help, uh, deliver"},{"startTime":2469.915,"endTime":2473.005,"body":"a better service for the customers."},{"startTime":2474.355,"endTime":2474.685,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2475.6,"endTime":2476.92,"body":"So guys, just time check."},{"startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2483.009,"body":"We're about 40 to about 40 minutes"},{"startTime":2476.92,"endTime":2483.009,"body":"in, uh, are there any other topics"},{"startTime":2483.009,"endTime":2487.509,"body":"or headlines that you'd want"},{"startTime":2483.009,"endTime":2487.509,"body":"to hit before we, we close out"},{"startTime":2490.95,"endTime":2491.759,"body":"or Scott too?"},{"startTime":2491.759,"endTime":2495.93,"body":"For, from your perspective, anything that"},{"startTime":2491.759,"endTime":2495.93,"body":"we should either expand on or go back"},{"startTime":2495.93,"endTime":2498.06,"body":"to, or that, that we didn't touch on."},{"startTime":2531.115,"endTime":2531.775,"body":"Cool, Don."},{"startTime":2531.985,"endTime":2533.815,"body":"Don, do you want to just, do"},{"startTime":2531.985,"endTime":2533.815,"body":"you want to finish this out?"},{"startTime":2535.105,"endTime":2535.795,"body":"Uh, sure."},{"startTime":2535.944,"endTime":2536.215,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":2536.305,"endTime":2536.725,"body":"No problem."},{"startTime":2536.835,"endTime":2537.075,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2540.865,"endTime":2541.225,"body":"All right."},{"startTime":2541.335,"endTime":2544.575,"body":"Well, Lars, I just want to say"},{"startTime":2541.335,"endTime":2544.575,"body":"thanks for coming on our podcast."},{"startTime":2544.605,"endTime":2547.785,"body":"I hope you enjoyed participating"},{"startTime":2544.605,"endTime":2547.785,"body":"in supply chain secrets."},{"startTime":2547.785,"endTime":2550.42,"body":"Um, For our listeners, uh,"},{"startTime":2547.785,"endTime":2550.42,"body":"where could they find you?"},{"startTime":2550.42,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"How can they get more"},{"startTime":2550.42,"endTime":2552.64,"body":"information on your company?"},{"startTime":2552.64,"endTime":2555.24,"body":"And if they want to"},{"startTime":2552.64,"endTime":2555.24,"body":"connect with you, I would"},{"startTime":2555.24,"endTime":2557.67,"body":"encourage them to go find me on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":2557.7,"endTime":2561.78,"body":"I spend a lot of time, uh, usually"},{"startTime":2557.7,"endTime":2561.78,"body":"every day, providing different updates"},{"startTime":2561.78,"endTime":2564.9,"body":"on at least how I see the market"},{"startTime":2561.78,"endTime":2564.9,"body":"developments and what are the key"},{"startTime":2564.9,"endTime":2566.91,"body":"takeaway soap come find me on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":2568.38,"endTime":2569.13,"body":"Super that's."},{"startTime":2569.13,"endTime":2569.46,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":2569.49,"endTime":2573.9,"body":"Well, thanks for a great show and"},{"startTime":2569.49,"endTime":2573.9,"body":"hopefully we can invite you back, uh, at"},{"startTime":2573.9,"endTime":2575.55,"body":"another point in time in the near future."},{"startTime":2575.55,"endTime":2577.11,"body":"And we can talk about the headlines again."},{"startTime":2577.855,"endTime":2579.955,"body":"Well, in that case, let's"},{"startTime":2577.855,"endTime":2579.955,"body":"hope everything is open."},{"startTime":2579.955,"endTime":2581.995,"body":"You can invite me over physically."},{"startTime":2581.995,"endTime":2583.075,"body":"That would be brilliant."},{"startTime":2583.515,"endTime":2584.205,"body":"That would be awesome."},{"startTime":2584.205,"endTime":2584.865,"body":"I'd love that."},{"startTime":2587.025,"endTime":2587.475,"body":"Awesome."},{"startTime":2589.095,"endTime":2589.935,"body":"Great job, man."},{"startTime":2590.055,"endTime":2590.595,"body":"That was a good one."},{"startTime":2590.715,"endTime":2591.015,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2591.855,"endTime":2592.335,"body":"Good stuff."}]}