Margarita Gurri  
Welcome to the rabbi in the shrink. This is Dr. Margarita Gurri, Dr. Red Shoe, and my favorite Rabbi Yonason Goldson. The good rabbi and I are very proud. Today we're going to be talking to Dany Shandler. Hi Dany,

Yonason Goldson
hello, Dany. 

Margarita Gurri  
Dany is an odd bird because I've known her for a long time I met her when we were in when I was in South Florida and Miami area. And I was very impressed with her understanding of what it takes to be financially healthy as an individual as a family's a corporation. She does a variety of things. And so she's going to help us, we know that it's January, and everyone's got their their New Year's resolutions. And she's gonna help us with these last few days of January start those resolutions off with a bang. So, Danny, what is it that you think we need to do to make sure we're financially fit?

Dany Shandler  
So thank you for the introduction. And it's my pleasure and honor to be here. And I'd love to share messages. That's really, you know, the learning that I've done over the years in training and development and working with people philanthropist and helping them direct their charitable giving, as I was on the executive team of a very large organization, and I learned how money changes the way we think, and the way we feel. And research really today is uncovering how wealth and the lack of really impacts our sense of morality. So, and our and our relationships with others, as well as our mental health.

Margarita Gurri  
So let's say I'm wealthy or I'm not, what's the impact I can expect?

Dany Shandler  
Well, so that's, that's a very broad question. Yes, they are, and how we how how, what I do is I work from where people are now. So if I'm working with someone who is a certain, you know, bringing in a certain income, or they're retired, or they're in their 20s, or they're in their 30s, there's different, different needs, depending on the person's age, depending on, you know, their responsibilities. I have three young children. My daughter is now 18, my other daughter is turning 18. And years ago, when they were little I planned for their future in terms of their being able to build financial security in a plan. So some people have the benefit of starting early. Because of the work in my career change that I made over 10 years ago. I now that's front and center for me, as a woman, it was never something that I paid attention to. Right, I it was something my husband had handled. And then there but for the grace of God, I got into this field, I was recruited into it, I had three young children. So I made a career change, which is the best thing I ever did, because it allowed me to be with my children, as well as to be able to have a profession that I love. And now I'm the person who leads the financial planning with my husband. So it's really Dr. Red show. You're amazing. And it really depends on where each person is coming from. So everything that I do is really based on what the person has. We look at where they are, and we look at where they want to be. And then we look at what you have to do to get there. Right, as a psychologist, you know, that that's the way things go. It's a planning process. I don't want to see an AI plan. So well. So let's talk about some of the ethical reasons why. And we could say as women, but really, as any member of society. I focus a lot with women and business owners. So we need to plan for our businesses, because what happens if somebody dies? What happens if it's a partnership, and one of the partners dies? What happens to that stake in that business? So does that let's just take I do buy sell agreements for businesses. They're funded by just inexpensive life insurance. I'm just giving you example. So what happens is the support ship and one of the guys God forbid, dies unexpectedly if they don't have a bison Sale Agreement, the person, the partner who's still living ends up going into business with that with his former partners family. Nobody wants to do that. So we fund it, I'm just giving you an example, through an inexpensive term life insurance. And this way, let's say it's 2 million that somebody took out. So they use some of that. And that's written by a lawyer. And that's written up, how much goes to the family, and how much stays in the business to hire somebody to, to take over that piece. So that's an example of buy sell, and why that's important.

Margarita Gurri  
When in planning, you know, it's, it's anticipating things that might happen, as opposed to simply planning for the things that you want to happen. And preparing ourselves that if certain contingencies come about, we've already thought them through set in place a mechanism that will provide the best possible outcome for everybody involved. Yes. Yes. So

I want to start go back to one of the first statements you meant when you said that impacts us. So forgetting just business. You know, money is something people love to hate, or they love to love, or they, it's too big a deal are not enough of a deal. I mean, we have interesting relationships with money. So the idea of wealth or lack of wealth impacting us, by now you've had lots of experience, you've been a financial adviser, you have a degree in in psychology and social work. And you have a long history of long term care insurance support. So how does wealth or lack of it impact us? I want the basic, overarching question.

Dany Shandler  
Well, some people don't they they don't budget, it's very basic. Budgeting is really one on one. And we help our clients budget. Budgeting is really important. Because if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. Right rabbi, right. So there are risks that challenge financial security. And I could just share some of those. And they challenge financial security, especially in retirement. So even when there's wealth, there are tax issues. So people have to pay attention to getting to protecting their wealth. from a tax perspective as well. That's, that's very important. The risks that challenge the wealthy, and people, the the norm, longevity 67% of men and 75% of women over the age of 70, will have at least another 10 years. Right? 20% of these men and 34% of these women will live into their 90s. Are we planning for that? Question mark? Okay. Then we have of course, inflation, which we're living in right now, as I do share taxes. So I don't the whole purchasing power issue is gets cut in half, in just 18 years, with an average inflation rate of 4%. Then you have legacy, spending down at assets in retirement can diminish one's financial legacy that's intended for family or a charity. Right? Market volatility, we sit, we're living it right now. Right, then there's health care costs. Then you have long term care. 70% of people turning age 65 will need some form of long term care during their remaining lives. Let me ask

Margarita Gurri  
yourself, you Danny, yes, please. Rather than getting into the very specifics of financial planning with we're, we'd like you to help us see the type of need how do you develop a mindset is what what type of perception or attitude should we have that will inform us in how we see money as a tool to benefit us and others, as opposed to something that's really the driving force in our lives? Is that something you could speak to

Dany Shandler  
start Want to make sure I understand your question? So can you repeat it rabbi?

Margarita Gurri  
That was the gist let me put it in the frame it this way, perhaps, you know, Simon Sinek is famous for, you know, it's not his idea but the the Find Your why what motivates us, and I want to make money is not the motivation that really should be driving any of us. It doesn't mean we don't want to make money. But we need some we need a higher purpose in life. We need something that really defines us. Why are we here? Why are we doing what we're doing? So to see money as a tool,

Dany Shandler  
as opposed to a goal? Got it? Got it? Got it. So what kind of mindset? Do we need to have for that? You know, it's interesting. I personally, that's really I right now, um, I just came back from Israel. And I had a very spiritual experience there. My daughter's learning there now. My daughter is 18. And she's at an excellent, excellent seminary.

Margarita Gurri  
Okay, she's 18 already. Wow.

Dany Shandler  
Yeah, she is. And I have one that's almost 80. And also, anyway, I'm going to be going back there. But what happened to me on this journey, and I've spent time in Israel, I led missions to Israel, I was there during 911 in Israel, meeting with soldiers, asking them what it was like to live with terrorism as the towers were hit in the middle of the JCC, when we were having a meeting. So I've had a lot of, I've had enough experience with Israel, I don't speak the language, my husband is fluent. He's always wanted to live there. I got a real sense of purpose and meaning there. And, and not to romanticize it, and not to talk about Israel. The point is, money is a reality. And so are my husband, and I haven't been able to do it. Because how do you live in Israel, and you can earn a living? And if you're living is here in the States, how do you do that? So we're engaged in this discussion now. And the mindset is priorities. I spent all my time here, running to malls shopping for my kids doing this. It's not like you don't do that there. But what I'm trying to say is I want to be able to have money, enough to be able to live, where I where I want to live, and live the life that I want to live. I've been spending a lot of years personally working. And I have three young kids. And I, my husband and I are now talking about what's important to me to us as parents. So but the money is the tool, as you say, does that answer your question? No,

Margarita Gurri  
not for me.

Dany Shandler  
Ask it in the way that well, I'm

Margarita Gurri  
gonna ask it to you. So I work with people who struggle with even wanting to do their taxes or wanting to know where they are, like you and your husband are comfortable in that world. And for those that aren't comfortable, what is the mindset that helps them come to their desks, or a sitting arrangement with somebody or even themselves to think and think about money and how they can use their ideas to create impact in their lives. That's, that's more to what they want.

Dany Shandler  
Thank you. And I really appreciate you clarifying and asking it in another way. So it's really it's really being open. We're having it's having a facilitator who will just listen and help guide Okay. Before I do anything, regarding any

Margarita Gurri  
so before they get they have to want to have a facilitator, I want you to buy

Dany Shandler  
I don't even know but Dr. They don't even know what they don't know.

Margarita Gurri  
Okay, so let's say they're not ready to even have a guide. What can you do to help our listeners get to the point where they might call a guide, or might go down the path that's more practical. What mindset can you offer them? They get some excited about terms with money,

Dany Shandler  
trust, trust of what conversation like my my whole thing what I do every day is I educate Okay, I

Margarita Gurri  
am not making myself clearly Rob I'm doing a terrible job of reaching her. When I'm it's not I don't want someone to have a conversation with you or anyone else. What can they do for themselves, their mindset, a personal one on one mindset to get to the point where they can then do the secondary issues. Find someone they can trust and whatever. What are the thoughts they can do? So it gets dropped, struggling and avoiding struggling with an avoiding money. But I think that you're so sophisticated, you're not understanding the basic struggle that I'm seeing, well, I actually

Dany Shandler  
I live that struggle every day, because out of many people that I that I talked to, they're not ready to have the discussion. So

Margarita Gurri  
what can you do to help us with a mindset to get ready to to dive into money as a friend?

Dany Shandler  
Education being open to being educated, just listening 15 minutes of a conversation with

Margarita Gurri  
people that all what thoughts can they have? What questions can they ask to get themselves before they interact with anyone else? Whether it's on a YouTube channel?

Dany Shandler  
Yeah, I mean, it's about looking at spending patterns.

Margarita Gurri  
Okay. All right, thank you, and what else it's about I

Dany Shandler  
looking, you know, looking at savings. It's conversations and communication with their loved ones. Okay. Children never understand anything about money and planning, because parents don't talk to them about it.

Margarita Gurri  
Okay, so we need to talk to kids,

Dany Shandler  
we need to talk to kids, my kids hear it vicariously through me because they listen to my work all day. So I'm sure it's annoying after a while. And it's really about a couple if it's See, that's why I'm hesitant when I get into specific because people, not everybody has a has a has a partner. But it's really about being able to be open. And trusting and doing it in conjunction with your partner, if you have a partner, if you don't have a partner. But let's say like, you know, let's say somebody, someone has children, but doesn't have a partner. It's really about having ethical discussions with your family. You know, and it really is based on where you are, I'm at a point now and I'm going to be getting ready for retirement. I'm going to work through retirement because this work I could do, but I have to talk to my husband to be able to be open. What does that look like? How many more years we're going to work? What is that retirement age, so people who are resistant, they gotta be open. That's the mindset. I don't I don't know how else to say it. The way that I help people become open, is I share my hopes, my strengths, my ideas, I share my stories. We have my husband's family, this Alzheimer's in his family. You bet that they were grateful for their long term care. My mom who passed away, she signed away her long term care. My brother was on her floor helping bathe her. Okay. It's these stories, doctor. And, and that that's why, you know, it's not just like a one word answer. It's really about sharing stories.

Margarita Gurri  
You made a point earlier, when you were talking about how your relationship, your financial relationship or rules with your husband has changed over time. And, you know, that's something that my wife and I also have, have experienced that, that flexibility to recognize that life does change as we go along. And that when we look back, and we see how we've dealt with various expected or unexpected changes in our lives, how much better if we can benefit from the experience of others? And look ahead, so that we do it's less likely that we'll get caught off guard. And we'll be prepared for those situations.

Dany Shandler  
Rabbi, thank you for sharing that. Can. Can I ask a question to you Rabbi about what you saw as a shift in your own relationship? Regarding talking about money planning for? Can I ask how how? Just to give me an example so that we can format discussion.

Margarita Gurri  
Yeah, my wife and I live in St. Louis. We've lived here for 2728 years. And when we moved here, we had four children five and under. And my wife said, I don't really want to work right now. Very reasonable. I mean, she was working. She was working a lot harder than I was. She didn't want a job on top of that. And so we found a way to be able to get by on my income after a couple of years because We're all in school and she was ready to go back to work. We were both teaching in private schools. Now, there's a lot that's nice about private schools. But financially, there's no tenure, there's no retirement. And in this was something that my wife being much more practical minded than I am. She saw this as a cause for concern. She found a field she went into special ed, she has been teaching in public school, Missouri, where we live has the best retirement plan for teachers in the country. Right. Excellent. So you know, we have we have a lot more reason to feel secure, then, many people we know.

Dany Shandler  
Well, it sounds

Margarita Gurri  
they've been in, they've been following their passion. They've been following their ideals. But they, they don't have a solid foundation for when retirement comes.

Dany Shandler  
It also sounds like back to the question. Communication. Yes, which we we addressed, and I mentioned it earlier, it sounds like you, Rabbi Goldson, that you and your wife, your wife was able to, to prioritize by saying, I don't want to drops, I'm gonna have one. I'm a type A personality, so I never give up my day jobs. So I have three jobs, basically. So I think it's great. The first thing is communication, and a willingness to let go. And you know, what I think is underlying in that too, in my own relationship. I grew up with a lot of financial insecurity. And thank God, today, I don't have that. And because we plan, my husband loves music. So he drives, often, to concerts. Years ago, I said to myself, and again, it was only because of the work I'm doing. That's why that question about what makes somebody want to learn? It's hard. It's a hard question. Because the only reason that I took on this upon myself was because I was recruited into the work. So for me, I live it. But I remember laying in bed. And my husband was driving to concerts. And I was scared. What would happen if something happened to him? And it doesn't have to be death, by the way. Death is, you know, I mean, accidents happen. illness has happened. I'm a breast cancer survivor. And I'm glad to be guided. And as much as my husband took charge of the financial stuff and the insurance. He had no idea how little bit of disability income protection he actually had with his work very little. I would not, if God forbid something happened to him, I wouldn't be able to stay in my house. My children also went to Jewish Day School, I wouldn't be able to keep them in Jewish Day School. I panicked, but because I have access, and I have knowledge and I have the resources. I got him more disability insurance. And he didn't want to spend a lot of money giving example. So I got him only to age 67. Well, guess what? My husband is now 60 to 60 sevens right around the corner. Now I tell my clients get it to 70 it's pennies, take it to 70 because retirement is looking much longer for people today. So I was sharing my experience.

Margarita Gurri  
So what do you suggest? I know you're an expert in long term care, would you suggest for long term care

Dany Shandler  
for families? Okay, so the way that I view long term care and the way my husband views it and talks about it, it's a gift that we give to our children. It is something when I watch what people go through and in my my age now my my dad died young and my mom died about seven years ago to watch to watch families that had devastated when a parent is not well. You know, Rabbi, You know how you were saying you have four children and you're raising you raise them they went to Jewish Day School. We all as parents on this call on this podcast. We all cared deeply for our children and we have worked very hard to, so that our children are productive in that society and make healthy choices. Then all of a sudden, God forbid, an emergency happens, what happens to their lives?

Margarita Gurri  
So how much long term care to to get to protect ourselves and our, our kids? How do we know? Or if we don't have kids, that people will take care of us? How do we know how much to get?

Dany Shandler  
Well, that's a question that is a planful question. We don't just pull that number out of a hat. Right? So it depends on where you're located. St. Louis is one thing, Miami is another cost of care, it was $18 an hour now it's 20. You know, it's it's significant, I have a list, you know, that's easy that you find out what the cost of care is. And then you have to make sure that you are getting it from the very best company. That's very important. With long term care, life insurance, it really doesn't matter where you get it, if you're getting term insurance, you get the cheapest thing on the market. That's, that's easy. But if you're getting some other kind of vehicle, like long term care, like disability insurance, like whole life, now term insurance, then it matters what company now long term care is going through a very big change. Right now, the whole long term care space is really in in a problem, because many more people are living longer, right? The companies, for the most part, didn't plan for this. Okay, so during the pandemic, and I'm trying to stay higher level,

Margarita Gurri  
I'm going to stick you away from history to then. So what you're saying is for people to be responsible, and to be able to not burden their children, all they have to do is pick up the phone and call someone like you and ask about long term care. So I've done anything,

Dany Shandler  
it doesn't take away the responsibility of the family. And I want to emphasize that, okay, this is just a tool. As Rob, I spoke about a tool. Yes, it's, it's, it's being able to pay pennies on the dollar for the care, it's being able to delegate the heavy lifting the bathing, we don't want in a marriage, a husband and wife bathing each other. We want to maintain the dignity in our relationships. So I know we have to move on to the word of the day. And I hope this was helpful. And if there are any questions, I'm here to listen, and I'm looking forward to hearing the word for the day. And thank you,

Margarita Gurri  
we're gonna go to the word of the day when we come back, we'll ask you about what's your next adventure. And some final words or call to action for the listeners? Rabbi, word of the day, sir.

Word of the Day? Well, you know, one of the reasons why we have to have these kinds of conversations is because most of us like to kick the can down the road. I'll start planning later. And that's because we are paint averse. Thinking about the future and thinking about possibilities and thinking about what could go wrong, what I have to plan for and how much do I have to spend to prepare for the future? These are all things we would rather not do. And so the word of the day addresses this. It's actually a word you may be familiar with Dr. Because it's from psychology. It's a called ACMA. Stasia.

Dany Shandler  
No, that didn't show it. I have to write that down

Margarita Gurri  
at the Stasia it means the awareness of sharp points through the sense of touch without experiencing pain. Wow. And I think it's a really useful mindset. Because one of the words we've had in the past is compartmentalize. This is a form of, of karmic compartmentalization. I'm aware that there's something painful, but I'm not actually experiencing the pain I actually have this myself during I once was under under anesthesia. And I woke up during the surgery, and I knew I was a pain but it didn't bother me.

Dany Shandler  
And so

Margarita Gurri  
we we need to know where these sharp points are. We need to know where the pain points are. And yet, there's a way that we can somehow divorce ourselves from the pain and in this sense, when we start saying, Well, I have to spend money and I have to take up policies and I have to think about contingencies. I'm gonna have to sacrifice for the future. And if we think about it that way, then we're in trouble. If we think of it instead, as I'm investing in my future, well, investment doesn't sound nearly so painful. Or so daunting as sacrifice. Sacrifice means I'm giving something up investment means I'm putting something away for the future, it's still for me, and it's going to come back, I'm going to reap more than I so and so to know where the pain points are, but to reframe the experience so that they aren't really painful. This is how we can be responsible, which of course, is fundamental to being ethical, and we can protect ourselves and the people we care about, as we look towards the future. Great worried, Rabbi, thank

you. Wonderful. So Danny, he you inspired this word that was lovely. What is the next adventure you're looking forward to and, and we'd like to think of a not just a work adventure, but any adventure in your life, you're looking forward to,

Dany Shandler  
I want to I want to spend some time in Israel working on my spirituality. Okay. And, and continue, continue the spiritual work that I do with, with people every day and having Congressman, I want to do those two things. And I want to I want to, I want to strengthen my own connection with my higher power,

Margarita Gurri  
which is good support you in that.

Dany Shandler  
I love that Rabbi, I really do. I'm so glad I got to meet you today.

Margarita Gurri  
I'm glad you too. Got to me, too.

Dany Shandler  
Thank you for making it happen. Oh, my pleasure. So

Margarita Gurri  
final words for our listening audience.

Dany Shandler  
From from me or Yes, from

Margarita Gurri  
you, from your daddy,

Dany Shandler  
you get the Well, I really love being able to share strength and hope. And I really appreciate the time. And I am here to have any kind of conversation that anybody would like to have on the basics, the ethics, just even just to get started, I am available to talk to anybody without any expectations. All right. That's it.

Margarita Gurri  
Thank you for sharing your insights with us and helping us look towards our future in a way that we can be more responsible.

Dany Shandler  
I and I really want to also say that I love the work that you're doing this podcast, I really got to read shoe, I did not really know exactly what it was going to be. And I think you are spreading such good work.

Margarita Gurri  
Well, thank you.

Dany Shandler  
I love it. I love it. Love it.

Margarita Gurri  
You're right. That's our goal. We should

Dany Shandler  
we're only responsible for the legwork. Not the outcome.

Margarita Gurri  
That's always true. Probably tell our listeners

Dany Shandler  
that you're wearing red shoes.

Margarita Gurri  
We should probably tell our listeners that we have received the debut Award for Best podcast co hosts.

We want to super award for 2022. We did.

Unknown Speaker  
Very quickly right rabbi?

Margarita Gurri  
I think I think our I think people have the right to know, doctor.

I think so too. And we thank everyone who suffered through our early days when we knew even less than what we're doing. And hopefully we'll make a better better job of it. So that'll be good.

And what's the last word today, Doctor?

Last word of the day is all right, everyone out there who's got a relationship with money that is not as comfortable as it could be. Just take a deep breath. Remember you love yourself and call someone by Danny Shandler. And just start somewhere. Think baby steps. You don't have to do it all at once. But anyone who can breathe in and out and avoid money can breathe in and out and dive into money with little baby steps. So that is my thought. Be kind to yourselves and take care of your futures. So the rabbi and I wanted to say again, Dan, thank you Danny, and all your listeners. Good luck with your new year's resolutions. This is been the rabbi in the shrink episode and we look forward to seeing you there next episode.

Thank you all.

Breeda Miller  
Thank you for listening to the rabbi and the shrink every day ethics unscripted to book Dr. Red Shoe Dr. Margarita Guri or Rabbi Jonas and Goldson as speakers or advisors for your organization, contact them at the rabbi and the shrink.com. This has been a doctor Red Shoe production When

Transcribed by https://otter.ai