I Love the St. James Hotel: Johanna Medina (Re-post)

We are sharing a re-post of one of our most popular spooky season episodes today. We are sad to share that the St. James is currently closed and up for sale. Hopefully someone will purchase it soon so we can all visit again!

In this episode of the "I Love New Mexico" podcast, host Bunny Terry and her daughter Johanna Medina explore the haunted history of the Saint James Hotel in Cimarron, New Mexico. They share personal anecdotes, historical insights, and chilling ghost stories about the hotel, which has hosted famous figures like Wyatt Earp and Jesse James. The episode highlights the hotel's notorious past, including violent events and ghostly encounters, such as the aggressive spirit of Thomas James Wright. Bunny and Johanna also discuss Cimarron's historical significance and encourage listeners to visit the area to experience its spooky charm firsthand.

Bunny Terry's website

Bunny Terry Instagram

Bunny Terry Facebook

Original Music by: Kene Terry

Transcript

Bunny 00:00:00  Hi there, I'm Bunny Terry and you're listening to the I Love New Mexico podcast. Whether you're a native New Mexican who's lived here for your entire life or you're just considering a visit, this episode is for you. Join us as we share a lot of New Mexico stories, talk about all things New Mexico, and include topics like what's magical here, where you ought to visit, what's happening, and the things you absolutely cannot miss in the Land of Enchantment. We're excited that you're here, and we can't wait to show you what an amazing place in New Mexico is. Because, let's face it, I love New Mexico. It's October at the I Love New Mexico podcast, which means that we're sharing stories about mystical and magical New Mexico, and most of what we're sharing are ghost stories. Last week, you heard from the Tucumcari Main Street project about the tours that they're doing, that involve some walking tours of downtown. Talk about the ghost of Alex Sweet, who was one of the founders and then one of the original members of what's now the FBI, when he was involved in the investigations of the murders on the Osage Nation.

Bunny 00:01:26  And, they talked about how they're doing these tours. And then you also, as part of that tour, get tickets to see killers of the Flower Moon, which is opening on October 20th. So we want everybody. If you haven't heard that a podcast episode, go back and listen to it. It's very fun. But we love New Mexico, and we love especially that it is the home of a lot of ghost stories, a lot of history. And today we're going to talk about one of the most haunted, if not the most haunted places in New Mexico, which is the Saint James Hotel in Cimarron. And today Johanna Medina is joining us, and Johanna is also my daughter. So we've we've heard all these stories, all our all of her life for sure. And I think it's just fun to talk about, how crazy. You know, some places are haunted and you go to visit and it's like, well, this is interesting. The Saint James seems to be rather haunted by some really angry and malevolent spirits.

Bunny 00:02:32  And I know we've both done a lot of research, so, Johanna, I'm dying to hear what you found out about the Saint James Hotel in Cimarron.

Johanna 00:02:40  Yeah, I'm really excited to be doing this kind of haunted New Mexico theme for Spooky Season, my favorite time of year, and I was really pushing us to do things like this. I'm excited to get back on the podcast with you and get to talk about some haunted places in New Mexico. And I wanted to start with Saint James, because it's the one that, like you said, I've heard the most about my whole life and I, you know, I haven't stayed there, but I've been by there. I think I'd be too way too scared to stay there. So, yeah, I did some research on history and different stories that people have told and kind of stories about the ghost, so I'll get into that. So first of all, if people don't know Cimarron is in northeastern New Mexico. It's about two hours east of Taos.

Johanna 00:03:35  the population in 2021 was 808 people. So it's a really tiny town. 14 ghost. Yeah, right. That's including the ghosts. it was established. It was established in the 1800s within a 1.7 million acre land Grant, that was originally built on the land where you and Apache Native Americans lived. So, you know, a lot of history just in the land to begin with. The Saint James Hotel is located in downtown Cimarron. It's historic. They have a restaurant and bar, and you can still stay there today. There's one room that you can not stay in, but you can. You can stay in the hotel. And they have kind of an annex area built. Now, that's not the old original hotel. I remember I stayed there one time for a volleyball tournament. yeah.

Bunny 00:04:29  And I was like, are you staying in the old part or the annex? Because I think I could stay in the old in the in the original part of the hotel.

Johanna 00:04:36  Yeah. I think that's the time that, we I think we went inside.

Johanna 00:04:40  I have a vague memory that we went in the old, old hotel, but we stayed in the, in the annex part. And I think even as even in there as teenage girls, we were like, oh no. It's a little spooky. So, the Cimarron, which originally was called the Lambert Inn when it was built in 1872, was built on the recommendation of President Ulysses s Ulysses S Grant by Henry Lambert, who was a chef of President Lincoln. So that's pretty cool. so just for a little bit of, like frame of reference and perspective, other things, because I had like 1872 trying to get myself in the frame of mind at that time. So other things that were going on in 1872, that's the year that Yellowstone National Park is established as the world's first national park. that year, the met Metropolitan Museum of Art opens in New York City. And it was also the first time Susan B Anthony, voted for the first time. And she got arrested for that. Wow.

Johanna 00:05:44  So that's cool.

Bunny 00:05:45  So just framework. Yeah.

Johanna 00:05:47  Just kind of interesting history at the time. And at that time, Cimarron, like I said, was part of the Maxwell Land grant. In its day, the state James was visited by a lot of famous people because it was on the the Santa Fe Trail. And so it was all that old Western, just like you would picture in the movies, cowboys coming in and, and sitting at the bar or staying there. So some famous people that stayed at the, at at the hotel in its heyday. they list Wyatt Earp and his brother, Jesse James. Buffalo Bill stayed there, and he actually picked up some people to be in his show at the time. Davy Crockett, the outlaw, Davy Crockett, not the original Davy Crockett. he stayed there, and he actually killed some people in the hotel's bar room. Clay, Allison black, Jack Ketchum and Annie Oakley were said to have stayed there. And I'll list, I'll put up the some credits for the for where I got all this information in the description.

Johanna 00:06:51  So some really good articles out there about the Saint James. so just a little bit more about what was going on at the Saint James in 1901. Henry Lampert, who built the hotel, his son replaced the roof. And they found so many bullet holes in the roof of the of the bar. And luckily there was a double layer of hardwood so that, you know, people who are sleeping upstairs didn't get shot. But it was definitely interesting. And they still, even though the the hotel has gone through a few renovations over the last century, they kept, they kept a lot of the, the bullet holes in the walls and the ceiling.

Bunny 00:07:32  Well, I think I read that they left some of the bullets that they're still, I can't I can't tell you the number, but they're still, like 20 or 30 bullet casings still in the ceiling. Yeah. Of the bar?

Johanna 00:07:45  Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. so in January 2009, the hotel was purchased by the express W Bar Ranch.

Johanna 00:07:55  Yes. And it's gone through a few more updates, like I said, through the last century, but still holds a lot of the original look, feel and of course, the bullet holes. so I looked up, you know, if we're talking about haunted things, I want to know who are the ghosts? What? What are the stories? So I found, some details at this website. Legends of America. Com. So there's three specific ghosts they talked about. So the ghost number one is the scariest one and the most aggressive one I think. And that's in room 18 at the hotel. And that is the room that's blocked off and locked. No one no one could stay there. They pretty much don't even let people look in there because, the ghost that's in there is is mean. Apparently so. The ghost is of the ill tempered Thomas James Wright. He was killed at the door of his hotel room, right after winning the rights to the hotel in a poker game. So, having been shot from behind, Wright continued into his room and slowly bled to death on his bed.

Johanna 00:09:03  This room is considered the most haunted. And, you know, I think people still have stories of seeing that ghost or hearing and banging around in there. And then the second most popular or well-known ghost there is in room 17, and that's the epicenter of sightings for Henry Lambert's second wife, Mary Elizabeth. She said to have to remain at the hotel as a protector. She gave birth to her children in that hotel. She died in that hotel. And people have claimed to smell her perfume and, you know, sometimes see her walking around or they hear her tapping on the window. until the windows closed. You know, she's kind of like, you need to close the window. yeah. And other times people can see her transparent figure walking around. And the third ghost is one that a lot of the staff have said they, they see walking around. It's a small they just said it was a small sized ghost and he runs around. He's really mischievous and he moves things around. Or he when things go missing, they blame it on that ghost.

Johanna 00:10:13  so the original hotel has 13 rooms, which I wanted to make note of because I thought, that's a haunted hotel with 13 rooms. That seems pretty ominous. and the Saint James Hotel has been featured on this show Unsolved Mysteries, several times. So you could go look up episodes of that. And it's been on, like Ghost hunters and things like that. So, on this same website, I found a couple of ghost stories. So retellings of things people have seen. And I thought that would be interesting to hear about. So this is from I'm not sure the name of the person who wrote this in. It was kind of a comment on that page, but so this is a quote from this commenter. Oh, so the commenter, he was a writer or a journalist, I think. So he was talking about how he used to go to the Cimarron. I'm sorry. He was talking about how he used to go through Cimarron on his travels and try to stay at the Saint James all the time, because he knew the stories and he knew, you know, he just wanted to have a ghost sighting.

Johanna 00:11:18  I think so, he said the first night I stayed in the Zane Gray room and I was getting ready to take a shower. I noticed a small mirror hanging on the wall that was rocking back and forth. Click click click click. Though I tried to ignore it, the clicking sound persisted until I finally walked over to the mirror and felt the wall to see if it was vibrating. It wasn't. I looked into the mirror to see if I might see the reflection of something other than myself. No, nothing but me. Then I touched the mirror on the lower corner, holding it to the wall, before slowly taking my finger off. The rocking stopped before going to the shower. I looked at the mirror and said out loud, what's the matter? You tired of playing? And the mirror went click, click again and then stopped. Over the next few months, I had several more opportunities to stay at the Saint James, and he always, I always stayed in the same gray room. However, nothing more happened until what turned out to be my last day there.

Johanna 00:12:15  Just down the hall from my room, is another small circular room with a poker table. I always thought it would be great fun to play poker there, but never had a chance. On that night. I had gone to bed early, having to be in Colorado the next morning. However, I was having trouble getting to sleep. As I tossed and turned, I began to hear sounds of people talking down the hall. It was odd, as I knew I was the only guest in the hotel that night. I would be so terrified to be the only guest in that hotel. As I listened to the voices, it sounded as if they were calling poker games such as Jokers Wild or Jacks or better to open up, you know, general poker sayings. Curious, I got up and pulled on my pants, open the door and looked down the hall. There in the corridor was a lady in bright red ruffled 19th century period dress. Looking a little annoyed. She was holding a round serving tray.

Johanna 00:13:10  Back into my room, thinking this might be my chance to play a little cards in the circular room I had always wondered about. I put on a shirt, went back out, and walked down the hall to the poker room. When I poked my head in there, three men, all in period dress, were playing poker. One of them asked me if I wanted to get in. To which I responded, what are the stakes? $20 ante, he replied. Unfortunately, all I had with me was a $20 bill and a company credit card having to decline back to the room and went to sleep. When I got up at about 530. I got my stuff together and walked down to the hall. I looked in at the poker room. It was spotless. No empty bottles, no cigarette butts, not even a dirty glass. I then went downstairs to the front desk to check and ask to. I then went down to the front desk to check out and ask the desk clerk, were there any big winners last night? What do you mean? She replied.

Johanna 00:14:05  Those guys were playing poker upstairs last night, I said, and she said she was shaking her head and said, Mr. Jenkins, I've been here all night. And you were the only one upstairs. I just stood there speechless, feeling as though I had just been hit over the head. I then simply walked away, left the hotel and have never had the opportunity to return. So it's a pretty interesting story.

Bunny 00:14:29  It's a great.

Johanna 00:14:30  Story. Yeah I do. I definitely do.

Bunny 00:14:34  Well, so I would say that there are probably people listening who are thinking, oh, this is silly. I don't believe in ghost stories, but, I would say something is going on at the Saint James. I've stayed in hotels, not not stayed at the Saint James because, I tend to be the be the person that if a ghost shows up, they're going to visit and sit on the end of the bed and do something, and I don't I don't want one of those angry ghosts from the Saint James to show up and visit with me.

Bunny 00:15:05  But I have been places before where I could hear somebody walking down the hall with a limp and, and that that was in Uri, Colorado. So that's a whole different that's a whole different topic. But, I believe that there are people still hanging out at the Saint James and that, you know, the Cimarron was such a, sort of a hotbed of turmoil in the 1860s. In fact, I saw that the the cimarron is a Spanish word that means wild and unbroken, which is exactly what it was. and and the Maxwell Land grant was so controversial. You know, it was, Lucy and Maxwell bought out his in-laws and everybody, and he became the largest landowner in the United States. So not only did all this stuff, I mean, all this stuff happened at the Saint James. A lot of it happened because there was such, such, well, the Colfax County War, in which 200 people were killed, a lot of it. A lot of those arguments ensued at the Saint James.

Bunny 00:16:14  I mean, it says what I read said that over what was the number 26 people were killed in the Saint James. and, and and some of that was from long festering arguments between the owners of the land grant and people who had purchased pieces of land in the land grant, and then, either prospectors or farmers and settlers who had come in and and and squatted. So, there's I would tell you, in addition to the Saint James, if you're going to go to Cimarron, one of the cool places to visit that I loved was the cemetery. It's kind of have this weird thing with cemeteries anyway, because I think they're the repositories of all of our history. But the Cimarron, that that cemetery is, is way, way cool. But I can tell you, Johanna, that I've gone down that hallway and smelled that perfume. I have.

Johanna 00:17:14  Smell.

Bunny 00:17:14  That perfume of Marie Lambert, and, I and it's you always, you know, you think to yourself, is are they doing that on purpose.

Bunny 00:17:26  Is that happening in the hotel? Because the owners are sort of pumping that in there. But I think if you go and visit, you're going to see that it's I mean, that room 18. I mean, people back before they locked it, people said they were not down. they there are cold spots in the hallway near that hotel. That room. I mean, I think in fact, there was a note that I read that people who had stayed there before they locked it. Some of them experienced mysterious deaths. So I think the hotel locked up just because of a liability question.

Johanna 00:18:08  Yeah. They said it was for protection of the staff and the guests that too many bad things are happening. So I think not only is this, hotel haunted, I think it has a little bit of a curse on it, too, for how many people died there. I mean, it was truly the Wild West out there. People were just getting shot left and right. And it sounds like some, you know, unhappy spirits or hanging around.

Bunny 00:18:30  Well, and then I, I think I've told you this story before about my friend Yvette's brother went to stay there. They were on their way elsewhere. They were on their way to Red River, and they spent a night there. And he and I read a story just like this from somebody else. who said he. He felt somebody touching his hand, and he. And then he felt a presence, laying, like, right on his chest in the bed. And he woke up.

Johanna 00:19:01  Oh my gosh.

Bunny 00:19:02  And he turned and he was like his wife at the time. He said, get off of me. And from the other side of the bed she said, I'm not near you. And then she felt somebody stroking her forehead with their hands, and he was like, we got up and left in the no, no, no, because it was not a friendly spirit that was spending time with them in that room. I can't tell you which room it was, but, these these are real ghost stories.

Bunny 00:19:32  Even even, I found a group on Facebook that went there and, a paranormal group that has, some they do a podcast and we'll find it and we'll put the link up. But they, you know, they go and use whatever meters, they, their Ghostbuster meters. And, they said it registered higher than the paranormal activities for almost any place they had visited in the West. Yeah. Then I have a friend who went on a murder mystery weekend, which I'm like, are you crazy?

Johanna 00:20:05  You're just asking for trouble. I know she.

Bunny 00:20:08  But this was when you were young. This was probably, you know, at least 20 years ago, my friend Susie went on a murder mystery weekend at the Saint James. And she said it was so scary that by the end of the evening they were like, we're not sleeping here. It's. But I would say it's a beautiful property and I would like to go there and stay in the annex like you did in high school. The food at Lambert is really good.

Bunny 00:20:38  It's a steak house. I've eaten there before. It's so worth a visit. It's especially worth a visit if you want to see a ghost.

Johanna 00:20:48  Yes. Yeah. Especially this time of year. I think it would be really cool to get in the Halloween spirit to go just, you know, maybe sit there and have a drink, try to find the bullet holes.

Bunny 00:21:01  And it's they're very they're very evident. I mean, it's this they haven't changed that and yeah.

Johanna 00:21:07  Yeah they've kept a lot of the original look, especially at the bar I think. And seems like the rooms, you know, they've been updated but they, it feels like, probably like, feels like you're walking back in time when you go in there.

Bunny 00:21:20  And there's another, you know, visiting Simran. There's so much to do. There is even given that it's a town of 800 people. there is a walking tour that you can take on your own that takes you around. There was a well in the center of, just it's just a little bit east of the Saint James.

Bunny 00:21:42  And that was a well where everybody who came across on the Santa Fe Trail stopped and watered their livestock and, you know, refilled their barrels with water. And the Maxwell House part of it is still standing. And in fact, the Maxwell's had. Oh, no, no, no, this is wrong. They had a daughter who died when she was maybe 7 or 8 years old. And so, Lucien Maxwell's mother in law and the daughter are buried under these concrete slabs with this ironwork on top of them, sort of in a yard off to the left side of the house. So you can do a walking tour that takes you to the Maxwell house. It takes you to the because I've done it before in broad daylight.

Johanna 00:22:32  of course. Yeah.

Bunny 00:22:33  And and there's a jail now, this is very creepy. there's a the old Cimarron jail is just a one room rock building with bars on the window. But I went there, in the daylight and stood next to it, and I was like, this is.

Bunny 00:22:50  It's a kind of a place that makes the hair on your arm stand up. there is the old mill that, Lucy and Maxwell built in the 1860s. And, then there's a river. It's a beautiful little community. And you're right in the foothills of the Sangre de Cristo. Christo's, so it's so worth a visit. But, you know, take your wooden cross with you, I guess I don't know.

Johanna 00:23:24  Yeah, yeah. Stay at your own risk. Yes.

Bunny 00:23:30  And I would also say the cool thing about doing this podcast is that we get to do some research. we reached out to the Saint James and asks if they had somebody who would like to join us. So we would be happy to add, additional information. it's one of those places that fascinates us endlessly.

Johanna 00:23:51  Yeah, yeah. So before we wrap up, I want to tell one more ghost story that I found. Yes. so this was from. It might have been the same people you read about. So this was ghost hunters who, They they purposely went there to look for ghosts.

Johanna 00:24:08  So what? They wrote us as ghost hunters, we were excited to stay in the second most haunted room of the Saint James Hotel. Of course, because you can't stand the most haunted room. We walked about the hotel using our EMF meters and found some strange readings. We also gathered some strange sounds from room 18, which we are still analyzing. As I was falling asleep, I felt a tender touch on my back and then notice that my wife was not laying near enough to have touched me. When I inquired if she had just touch me, she said she had not. Immediately after she started, immediately after, she was startled by invisible fingers gliding over her hand. Finally, we slept until 3 a.m., when we are awakened by a strange scream coming from inside our room, the Mary Lambert room. I began taking photographs, one of which contain a vortex. So they explain a vortex is a funnel of energy that's associated with ghostly activity. So sometimes I've heard. If you see, like those little orbs in your pictures, you.

Johanna 00:25:13  It'd be way more obvious. Back when we used, film or even, like an old digital camera. the strangest phenomenon was a picture I had taken of the second story window. There was a face in the window. Not a reflection, not someone looking in a ghostly face, staring back as I was walking past the forbidden room 18. Even if you're not a ghost hunter, the history, the wonderful staff and the great food make Saint James Hotel a wonderful vacation spot. So I just it's like we said, the history and the scenery, and it's definitely somewhere to put on your bucket list to go visit if you're, you know, a New Mexico fan, which anyone listening to this should be.

Bunny 00:25:59  Well, and the other thing you can do and you can come back, we'll put a link to this. But we did a podcast a while back from a woman who was on staff at Philmont. And so the other thing you can do when you visit Cimarron is go to the Philmont Scout Ranch and, go through the museum and take a look at what they're doing there.

Bunny 00:26:20  So Cimarron is both historic and fun and really, really spooky. So I say, go, let's go, let's go for a week. Yeah, let's.

Johanna 00:26:31  Go back that that would be cool. So yeah, we'll we'll continue on with another haunted, town or location in New Mexico next week and let us know if you know, like your favorite scary haunted place in New Mexico. because we'd love to feature it.