Today's guest identifies as a thinker with an artist's soul. That’s evident in her ability to translate raw data into engaging stories that compel school boards and prospective families alike. Learn how Natasha Estey tapped into her marketing research background to create and launch a podcast that offers a high-touch, intimate connection with the school even when there is little opportunity for in-person engagement.
For more information about how to get your school's podcast up and running, read Natasha's free whitepaper here: https://bit.ly/3LNfaVL
Today's guest identifies as a thinker with an artist's soul. That’s evident in her ability to translate raw data into engaging stories that compel school boards and prospective families alike. Learn how Natasha Estey tapped into her marketing research background to create and launch a podcast that offers a high-touch, intimate connection with the school even when there is little opportunity for in-person engagement.
For more information about how to get your school's podcast up and running, read Natasha's free whitepaper here: https://bit.ly/3LNfaVL
00;00;00;10 - 00;00;45;03
Janice Crampton
This is WeAdmit! by AISAP. The podcast where we share true stories from admission and enrollment professionals. I'm your host, Janice Crampton, Executive Director and CEO. When your intro tagline to your LinkedIn profile has such a compelling statement such as, “I'm a thinker with an artist's soul,” you can't help but want to hear more. Join us today for this episode of WeAdmit! where I spend time with Natasha Estey, who in fact has not only taken her very nuts and bolts, data driven mind and has put it into podcasting and surveying and asking those questions that tell an interesting story.
00;00;45;22 - 00;01;15;13
Janice Crampton
What's your story? What's your trial and triumph? What's your lesson learned? As the year comes to a close and we think all about the greatest gifts that we can give ourselves and others, think about giving a gift to AISAP. Submit an Annual Institute content proposal. Proposals are being accepted now through December 16th, and perhaps you'll find yourself out in La Jolla, California, in June, presenting to our global network.
00;01;15;16 - 00;01;53;04
Janice Crampton
So as we get ready to embark upon a conversation with the wonderful Natasha Estey, I have to just say right out of the gate. I can't believe that I am going to be asking a podcaster questions about podcasting. Or should I say in another way, I can't believe that I am trying or attempting to be a podcasting host with someone who not only does this on the regular, but we even have a wonderful ASAP white paper that you authored all about how to do a podcast.
00;01;53;04 - 00;02;07;18
Janice Crampton
So maybe we should entitle this episode of WeAdmit! “Listen to everything that Janice does wrong and at the end, Natasha can correct us.” It's such a pleasure to have you on this podcast today.
00;02;07;24 - 00;02;18;01
Natasha Estey
Well, I am absolutely thrilled and delighted to be to be here today and to be able to chat with you, as I've been looking forward to this. So thank you as well.
00;02;18;22 - 00;02;41;00
Janice Crampton
Well, and we also certainly should get a gold star for a lot of effort in getting on each others calendars because the travel schedule, the back to in-person schedule and then germ warfare. And we're not talking COVID. You had bronchitis and then I had something. And, you know, so needless to say, wow, we finally made it.
00;02;41;00 - 00;03;01;07
Natasha Estey
We finally made it happen. Absolutely. And it's a wonderful day to be able to to connect. We actually have at our school, we have a short what we call our fall break. So we actually have today and Monday sort of off school. So it's just a perfect day to to connect and to reflect. So, yeah, that's great.
00;03;01;15 - 00;03;30;10
Janice Crampton
Well, in the spirit of connecting and reflecting, when we first decided that we would in fact connect. I did a little dare I call it research, but just wanted to not only get to know you a little bit better, because I have been a fan and a follower, but there is this wonderful introductory sentence that you have placed, dare I call it, on your profile, on your York school home page and whatnot.
00;03;30;10 - 00;03;46;12
Janice Crampton
But it says, I'm a thinker with an artist's soul. Yes. Oh, I don't know. I found such great comfort just reading that. Tell me more and the history and what it means to you. I'm a thinker with an artist's soul. Yeah.
00;03;46;12 - 00;04;26;12
Natasha Estey
So that in my LinkedIn profile is what resonates with me about that idea is I'm a pretty sort of cerebral person, but I also do have kind of a gentle kindness about me as well. And part of my own journey, certainly now in my life has been, you know, working in pretty, I don't know, left brained kinds of roles, but always feeling really drawn to more of that sort of right brain or artistic, creative piece.
00;04;26;13 - 00;04;56;22
Natasha Estey
And I think when I think about artists and people I know who are artists as like what they do as a living, I just feel a real kind of soul connection to artists. And so that's sort of how I feel that I might, you know, I have an administrative job in a school. Prior to being at the school I'm at now, I worked in marketing research, which of course, has, you know, has very much its kind of left brain type of approach.
00;04;56;22 - 00;05;16;07
Natasha Estey
But yet there's this whole other aspect of me and I think in some ways I take that approach in terms of how I live my life and how I interact with others and what I tap into to fill my cup and that sort of thing. So that's how I would sort of articulate that. But yeah, I love that that resonated with you.
00;05;16;25 - 00;05;34;01
Janice Crampton
Oh, it really did. And again, in the spirit of what I shared with you and all of our listeners, we've been trying to get on each other's calendars, so dare I say the piece of paper has been dog eared because I've gone back to it and said, Oh, not for today, but for next week. Oh, not for next week, for two weeks.
00;05;34;01 - 00;06;02;08
Janice Crampton
So here you go. Now, you know, again, what also is interesting about what you just shared with regard to sort of that left brain-right brain is as you notice that you've had a number of different professional experiences that are sort of data and qualitative. When you look at that, are you thinking a little bit about your professional journey as one that is accidental in nature?
00;06;02;08 - 00;06;14;29
Janice Crampton
Or do you find that you intentionally went from one thing to the next? Because, again, left brain-right brain. I guess if you put them together, that's called a brain. Which has sort of led you or driven you?
00;06;15;00 - 00;06;20;14
Natasha Estey
Oh, it's so such a I mean, I'm happy to tell you my sort of origin story of how I found my
00;06;21;00 - 00;06;23;28
Natasha Estey
way into working in enrollment or admission.
00;06;24;04 - 00;06;31;26
Janice Crampton
So yeah, well, definitely do that. Now, hold on. Let me do the old proverbial let me sit back, grab that cup of coffee and tell us.
00;06;32;03 - 00;07;02;02
Natasha Estey
Okay, so as you would find if you followed my professional sort of history, I definitely was working more in the marketing research space for a number of years. My sort of training from an academic perspective is actually in anthropology. So I have a master's degree in business and organizational anthropology. I was really intrigued by the approach anthropologists take to understand culture and people and ethnographic approach, if you will.
00;07;03;07 - 00;07;24;07
Natasha Estey
Working in understanding consumer behavior was also an area that was of real interest to me. So that's what led me into working in that space. I was working in a professional services industry, so I was working, you know, 55, 60 hours a week. So I was working a lot of evenings because I would be moderating, you know, focus groups and all the fun things that come with that line of work.
00;07;24;17 - 00;07;44;03
Natasha Estey
I had a baby and at the time my husband was trying to build a company himself, and we just sort of looked at each other and thought about our family unit, and we were like, “How do we make this work?” You know, with with our situation, we don't have any family that live, you know, in the city here to help out.
00;07;44;15 - 00;08;17;22
Natasha Estey
And parallel to that, I had actually had an opportunity to do some research for the school where I work, which is The York School in Toronto and had done a parent survey for them. And this was again sort of back in 2007. It was before my husband and I are even married. And we even at that point sort of talked about what an amazing place the school is and hypothesized about, oh, in the future, one day if we had children and if we were ever in a position where we could send our children to an independent school, wouldn't this be a neat place?
00;08;17;22 - 00;08;51;20
Natasha Estey
So that was fascinating because I got to know about the school that way. But I was sort of wearing my research hat and not really thinking about it in any other context. Fast forward to I'm on maternity leave. I'm getting to it towards the end of my maternity leave. The school was in the process of working on a strategic plan and because I had been connected to this research in the past, they reached out to me again and said, “Hey, would you be willing to do sort of run this parent survey for our community again and and maybe do some focus groups for us as well?”
00;08;51;20 - 00;09;12;13
Natasha Estey
And I said 100%. I would love to do that just as sort of a freelance project. And so here I come, I do this project for them. I got to know the Director of Advancement at the time who ultimately ultimately became Head of School and and learned a lot more again about what was happening at the school at that point in its journey.
00;09;12;13 - 00;09;32;24
Natasha Estey
And once that project completed, my husband knew that I was trying to think about, okay, I need to go back and work in some capacity. I can't just continue to be off work, but I really can't go back into the environment I was in before. Well, lo and behold, the York school was hiring at the time. They called it an Admission Officer.
00;09;32;24 - 00;09;53;22
Natasha Estey
So this was someone in admissions. And I remember I read the job description and I was like all of these things that, number one, I knew a lot about the school, so I felt a sense of it. And then there are so many transferable skills from what I had been doing in my previous work. And I just thought, this seems so crazy, but I'm just going to throw my hat in the ring and just see what happens.
00;09;53;22 - 00;10;07;00
Natasha Estey
And so I sent an email to, to the Director of Advancement because I'd worked with him on this project and said, I know this might seem really strange, but I just want to let you know that I'm applying for a job at your school.
00;10;07;00 - 00;10;07;11
Janice Crampton
Oh I love it!
00;10;07;11 - 00;10;25;18
Natasha Estey
And so of course I came in and kind of wet behind the ears. Didn't know some of the ins and outs of how the whole enrollment thing works. But I think because of my background understanding how to ask questions to find learning and to learn and to find meaning.
00;10;25;18 - 00;10;57;06
Natasha Estey
And also an ability just to build relationships. I came in for an interview and honestly, like 2 hours later, I came out of my interview with my colleague who was ultimately going to step into the Director of Admission role. And it was like it was again a bit of a yeah, it just kind of was this really interesting fit and the really great thing, of course, about working in an environment like school versus what I was in professional services is that it's not that you don't work hard, but it's just more predictable.
00;10;57;06 - 00;11;15;25
Natasha Estey
And I think for our family that was really something that we needed. And I really enjoyed the challenge of the different things that were requested of me. You know, I had to get a whole bunch of knowledge in my head about the school. I had to coordinate a student ambassador program. So all these new challenges came about.
00;11;15;25 - 00;11;45;18
Natasha Estey
But it was a fascinating as if you have to put a label on it. I would say it felt a little bit accidental, but also considered because, and this is something I feel even more strongly all these years later is it's so much also about the people that you work with and feeling like you're able to to have some kind of an impact in your work, in whatever way that takes shape and a feeling that you can grow within your work.
00;11;45;18 - 00;12;08;26
Natasha Estey
And so that's something that I think in our school environment is a really special place for in many of those ways. And I've never really thought to look elsewhere to get a job in enrollment elsewhere because I just really love the place where I am. So it's been a really, really fascinating journey with a couple of little other bumps along the way, as you might have noticed in my profile.
00;12;08;27 - 00;12;10;17
Natasha Estey
But here I am.
00;12;10;17 - 00;12;45;06
Janice Crampton
So there you go. And again, what I love about your story and as you called it, your your origin story is that it's not that it is so very different from many of us in the profession, but there is this intentionality about it, as you think, towards imagining that position that's being offered and how you said, not only I can do that, but also that you saw that you could add value given the other positions that you have held.
00;12;45;06 - 00;13;05;23
Janice Crampton
And I think that that's a really important element and aspect that we all need to remind ourselves of, is that so often we look at positions and we think, well, that's it, when in fact maybe we would put this in the category of when your Head of School at the end of the contract writes “And all things deemed necessary by the Head of School.”
00;13;05;27 - 00;13;20;03
Janice Crampton
Yeah, maybe in a job description we should say, “And all things deemed necessary by your ability to be creative and look at your talents.” I don't know. I mean, but you clearly have added such a great value beyond that job description. Right?
00;13;20;14 - 00;13;47;17
Natasha Estey
Well, that's the thing that is has been quite interesting is coming into the school and working for several years. And then we had a change in our our headship and our new Head of School I don't think realized that I had some of the background I had in the research side of things. And so I ended up helping out with with another parent survey several years later and and I remember at one point he was like, “How did I not know that you had this skill set?”
00;13;47;17 - 00;14;19;24
Natasha Estey
And so that's something that I get really excited about because I'm like, if I can offer that to better the evolution of the institution, then I'm down with that. Like I don't even think twice about it. And in the same way, and we can probably get into this a little bit more, but developing the podcast that we did over the pandemic, I mean, that was also kind of part of my mentality is like, “Well, if our format is going to be like an interview format, well, I have a lot of of a background in doing that.
00;14;19;24 - 00;14;40;09
Natasha Estey
So let's just run with it and see how it goes.” And I think that's something that regardless of the workplace or what your your role is like, guaranteed, you've got other skills that you can bring to the mix that we should be tapping into even more than we do, I think.
00;14;40;27 - 00;15;08;13
Janice Crampton
Absolutely. And before we get to the opportunity to highlight some of the great content that is part of the white paper that you wrote for and with AISAP, I'd love to just pause or I should say I'd love to just remain here in this space as it relates to, again, professional lessons learned as we think about this podcast's sort of tagline, the trials and triumphs of those in our profession.
00;15;09;19 - 00;15;48;25
Janice Crampton
You've mentioned already this idea of people didn't know that you had this talent or this skill. What might be either the advice that you would give others as well as yourself to maybe shine a little bit more about skills and attributes with those that you work with? Or have you developed a way to make people around you aware that you're more than what again, that job description might might lay out, and we hate to think that all great opportunities are the result of, “I didn't know you could do that!”
00;15;49;25 - 00;16;13;01
Natasha Estey
Right? Right. I yeah, I 100% agree as far as how to tap into the other skill sets or capabilities that someone has that might not be within the job description of what they're hired for. But the way that they can really make a contribution, like I just think about how we work in our enrollment team.
00;16;13;01 - 00;16;52;08
Natasha Estey
We have very specific functions and things to do, but there's all these other sort of places in the school where things are happening and I think about how like one of our, one of my colleagues actually has a background in sort of natural homeopathic medicine, like has done a bunch of training and why couldn't he do something with with staff around holistic nutrition or something to sort of give back a little bit in an area that's completely unrelated to do his job at the school, but to add a tremendous value in a different way. Or, something that we've talked about at our school
00;16;52;08 - 00;17;26;10
Natasha Estey
to is, and other schools are different this way, but typically at our school, administrators don't get as involved in things like coaching or or running clubs and co-curricular as it's usually our faculty who take on those things sort of outside of their class, in front of the class time. And I just think about all of the things that our administrative staff could offer in that vein, whether they play a particular instrument or they are an incredible cook or baker could run an amazing baking class for students or what have you.
00;17;26;10 - 00;17;48;01
Natasha Estey
So I think it's also a part of the building of the culture more broadly, like that's where I think there's also some really exciting stuff because that's also what makes you excited about being at work in your job and the feeling that you're making a contribution and it's just getting to know each other and know that about each other that I think can make that difference.
00;17;48;17 - 00;18;16;27
Janice Crampton
Well, and again, I'm sure that this has come up in many of the surveys that you have issued to the families and friends in the community. But it is a community. And I oftentimes think that we focus our question one, two, three, four or five focused on the tangibles, right? When in fact, it's that secret sauce that is the thing that separates one institution or one school from the next.
00;18;16;27 - 00;18;23;03
Janice Crampton
So as you're working on a wide variety of different things right now, what's exciting you the most about your job?
00;18;23;22 - 00;19;06;08
Natasha Estey
Well, the thing that I am really sort of leaning into, I would say a little bit more in terms of my own sort of development is as we've already said with my background in marketing research, I've also been interested in data and how we can continue to use data to drive enrollment strategy and understanding. So I'm actually participating in AISAP's Data to Drive Strategy Summit next week, and I'm actually really jazzed about that because I've been working on an ongoing data analytics project with our Associate Head of External Relations, and it's actually been really, really interesting and also challenging because we're kind of starting from scratch in some places and starting
00;19;06;08 - 00;19;27;21
Natasha Estey
to look at how we can tap into data that can help us sort of understand what decisions we can make in the future. I mean, essentially exactly what this summit is going to be talking about. But I'm really intrigued on how we can tap into way more nuanced data to help us in our work and even more broadly within the school.
00;19;27;21 - 00;19;58;05
Natasha Estey
And so that's something that really excites me right now about my job. And I mean, and honestly, other thing that's exciting too is like we're back doing like in-person tours and back to doing in-person events after several years of everything being remote for us. And so I also get really excited just about the chance to connect with people again in person because I'm so much about relationships and so that to me also continues to be exciting and make me happy to go to work every day.
00;19;58;05 - 00;20;16;02
Janice Crampton
Yeah. You know, I will say on the heels of, of your comment around seeing people when we had our Annual Institute this past year in July and again for those who hope to attend this year, it's in June in La Jolla, where I'm going with this, as you could just tell, everyone was like, “Hi, hi, hi, hi.”
00;20;16;17 - 00;20;23;21
Janice Crampton
You know that opportunity to see someone face to face, you know, and not be like, wait your zoom filter really. You know, we're.
00;20;23;22 - 00;20;26;05
Natasha Estey
Used to seeing them this, you know from here down.
00;20;26;05 - 00;20;27;05
Janice Crampton
That’s right.
00;20;27;05 - 00;20;29;27
Natasha Estey
With my hand over my face. It's really, really exciting. It’s a great feeling
00;20;29;27 - 00;21;00;10
Janice Crampton
Or let alone in the spirit of, you know, from this place down, you know. Oh, I see you wear, in fact, pants and slacks and not always sweats. So yeah, no, absolutely. That opportunity to be face to face is critically important. But to move back to something that's a little less tongue in cheek, again, that notion around the data to tell the story and certainly next or I should say the Data Drive Strategy Summit is hoping to talk about that.
00;21;00;10 - 00;21;27;24
Janice Crampton
But in the spirit of listening to this podcast, when in fact perhaps the summit is, quote unquote over, I would love to hear from you. What might be some things that you've stumbled on or stumbled upon that is truly data focused that you didn't necessarily know you needed in efforts to tell the better story? Did you stumble upon something that, “I didn't realize
00;21;27;24 - 00;21;35;11
Janice Crampton
that question would really unearth a whole other dimension.” Can you think of anything that, again, that light bulb moment for you?
00;21;35;11 - 00;21;55;26
Natasha Estey
Yeah. I mean, it's sort of what's coming to mind. And another thing that I'm working through is the CAEP program. The certificate program because again, I believe, you know, lifelong learning and and looking at honestly, just looking at the enrollment funnel or rings, if you will, there's a lot of it.
00;21;55;26 - 00;21;56;23
Janice Crampton
Yes, haha.
00;21;57;14 - 00;22;25;15
Natasha Estey
With this idea that enrollment isn't just about the stuff coming in at the top of the funnel. It's actually looking at everything all the way through to the other end. When students matriculate, when they head off to what their next stage is. And so what really is fascinating to me and something that I'm still trying to think about how we're going to start to move towards gathering the data that we need is like really being able to follow our students through that entire journey.
00;22;25;15 - 00;22;42;25
Natasha Estey
Because for us, what's really super helpful is that if we understand the kinds of students in all the ways you define that, who at the front end we might sort of identify as having great potential to thrive in our school, but then to have a strong sense of, “ is that actually the case?”
00;22;42;25 - 00;23;03;03
Natasha Estey
Like, are we able to make those choices in a way that those are the students that end up really thriving and almost kind of like backwards engineered as well. And so there's a lot of information that we need to start to gather a little bit more in earnest to start to build out that story.
00;23;03;14 - 00;23;19;27
Natasha Estey
And so it's things like, you know, tracking at the end of a first year after a student is joining the school. Like, how are they doing? Are they thriving? And deciding like, how do we define what success looks like in that context? Because it's not just about marks, it's about other aspects as well.
00;23;20;25 - 00;23;45;07
Natasha Estey
And then looking at, you know, students who ultimately launch off into different directions in their post-secondary journey and whether there's anything in the data that we have from earlier in their journey that can sort of give us a sense of that's where they might have ended up. So that's something to me that's been like, wow, that's there's a lot of great power and potential in starting to gather that.
00;23;45;07 - 00;24;09;13
Natasha Estey
And it's like a five year project, right? Because you're just starting absolutely. To really start gathering this information now and start being able to look and see what the trends are and so forth and so that's something that's part of this project, that ongoing project that I'm working on that gets me excited because I just think it's that knowledge is just it's so helpful.
00;24;09;17 - 00;24;33;15
Janice Crampton
Yeah. So Natasha, I can tell you, you are a thinker with an artist’s soul. Yes, yes. You are a thinker with an artist soul. What you've just said here, I also think is critically important for us to pause and reflect upon. But that would be dead air on a podcast, which is not something you strive to achieve, but no, to pause and reflect upon and dare I say repeat.
00;24;33;15 - 00;24;56;21
Janice Crampton
And that is, begin with the idea-notion of what you hope to achieve, that backwards design concept. And then the other thing that you said that I think is critically important is having schools determine what success looks like for them. We so often find people saying, “Do you have a template? Do you have a sample?
00;24;57;00 - 00;25;18;21
Janice Crampton
Can I go to your resources and copy and paste?” And well of course we do, but I'm always giving this cautionary tale, “You have to make it your own, right?” We talk about individualized attention at our school and we talk about how are our institutions? Our schools are so very different: the culture, the community, the climate. And yet you're asking the same question.
00;25;18;21 - 00;25;28;02
Janice Crampton
So I again reinforce that point that you made, because it is critically important. Put yourself your school in there with a feel and flavor. Right?
00;25;28;03 - 00;25;51;18
Natasha Estey
Exactly. And even within the context of the school, you might have different conversations about what success means. Right. It might mean something different to your Senior School Principal than it means to your Associate Head Well-being. Right? Of what success means. And so I think it's it's part of a bigger, bigger conversation and an important conversation to have within the school, for sure.
00;25;51;18 - 00;26;16;07
Janice Crampton
So tell me a little bit more. Again, this comes up with great frequency. You are the collector of, the designer of, the evaluator of all of this data and information. Who then communicates that information? Who then in a literal sense stands before leadership or community or team? Is that a handoff or are you having the opportunity to do that?
00;26;17;09 - 00;26;43;27
Natasha Estey
It's been a little bit of both in different circumstances. So certainly when I was working on things like the parent survey and putting together the report from that survey, I had an opportunity to present certainly to the leadership team within our school. In the past, I've been able to present to the board but probably more recently and with other other work that we do, it tends to be more of a handoff that happens.
00;26;43;27 - 00;26;56;25
Natasha Estey
And so I might still put together a report and such that ends up being shared, but the message isn't coming from me directly. It's coming through our Head of School or it's coming another way.
00;26;56;25 - 00;27;23;03
Janice Crampton
So Natasha, the reason I was asking about dare I call it the hand out or hand off? Let me try that one more time. Natasha The reason I was asking you about the handoff of information is because so often people will find themselves with a bunch of data in front of them, right. And not knowing how to interpret it.
00;27;23;27 - 00;27;53;10
Janice Crampton
And the other scenario might be that even if there is a 1-sheet debrief on what the content must indicate or might indicate, there is a disconnect. And that's really where I'm going. And how do you work with your team, your colleagues on ensuring that there is a nice flow between data collection and data implementation and data evaluation and then telling the story?
00;27;53;14 - 00;28;33;17
Natasha Estey
Yeah, like I can give you a great example of that exact thing you're getting to in practice. In this case, I was trying to pull together some some data and some information for our Associate Head of External Relations sort of looking at conversion rates and what when we sort of talk about like could we identify students not sort of ranked from 0 to 100, but if we sort of said, well this the student based on all those factors that we consider, would they be considered in like in the top kind of quartile of of all of our applicants or no.
00;28;33;26 - 00;29;01;13
Natasha Estey
How many offers are we giving to our top quartile candidates versus our second quartile, etc.? And also, how are we converting on those offers? And we were talking about how to visually show this. And we had a conversation about how to make some charts to show all this information. So you're taking a bunch of different things and you're trying to sort of put it into one sort of visual story.
00;29;01;24 - 00;29;22;02
Natasha Estey
And I took a first stab at it and we got back together and had a conversation. And our Associate Head was saying, “There's something missing here for me because I'm going to have to go and talk to the board to share some of this information,” with all the caveats, because, again, it was not totally it was not complete, etc..
00;29;22;02 - 00;29;50;02
Natasha Estey
But it was really helpful because we talked about, well, we need to redo some of these these charts, too, to bring in some other pieces of information, to even visually show it in a different way so that when I'm having the conversation, the data actually make sense. And so I was the one kind of working with all the raw data, if you will, but it was working collaboratively to say, “How can we show this visually?”
00;29;50;02 - 00;30;05;14
Natasha Estey
And it ended up being just like a couple of slides, honestly. But it took a little bit of back and forth because, you know what? What was being suggested from the visual representation of the data in the first try was not really quite getting us where we needed to go.
00;30;06;03 - 00;30;28;15
Natasha Estey
And so that's where it's also a pretty, pretty collaborative effort. And I think that's why you can't just be kind of a lone person in these kinds of exercises. And obviously we know we have our week to week kind of day to day collection of information about like how many applications do we have at this point compared to this time last week, last year and those kinds of touch points.
00;30;28;15 - 00;30;54;25
Natasha Estey
But these sorts of exercises, I think are a little bit more involved in a different kind of way, because it's almost more looking reflecting back on like a whole year or many cycles of data and making sure that when you are, as you said, you're sort of telling the story that the data is telling you you're doing it in a way that actually makes sense for those who are receiving that information at the other end.
00;30;54;25 - 00;30;55;18
Natasha Estey
Right. Right. Yeah.
00;30;55;27 - 00;31;22;09
Janice Crampton
Well, you know, and again, many offices find themselves being an office of one. So when you are the data gatherer, the data implementer, the data examiner, the data converter, you can have a meeting with yourself and make sure that that story is going out. Yeah. And what you've shared here is a critical one because you obviously are fortunate to have additional resources.
00;31;22;09 - 00;31;56;06
Janice Crampton
So it's not an office of one, although there are never enough people. But as you've mapped out here, which again I think is a key takeaway for our time together today, is that you in and among your own dynamics as an office have given good time and attention to how you share that data out. And perspectives have offered people the opportunity to say, you may see it this way, but I'm seeing it another way so that in the end the recipient is going, “Ah ha!”
00;31;56;22 - 00;32;06;29
Janice Crampton
So tell me about this podcast decision. How did that data get collected and how did that come forward as, “I think we've got something here.”
00;32;07;08 - 00;32;35;06
Natasha Estey
Yeah, well, the back story about how the podcast came around is, of course, you know, it was the pandemic. We shut down entirely in terms of schools going virtual. And our entire admissions process had to go virtual and every single touchpoint with families had to be completely reimagined. So as part of this conversation of like, how are we going to make our open houses virtual?
00;32;35;06 - 00;32;56;26
Natasha Estey
How are we going to make our information sessions virtual? All these sorts of things. We talked about how because families can't physically come into the school, see the school experience the vibe of the place. Which is such an important part of the exploration thatperspective families have, where the school is getting getting a feeling of what the school is all about.
00;32;57;20 - 00;33;16;09
Natasha Estey
Because we wanted to find these additional ways to provide perspective families with insight into our school and what really sets it apart. And also as part of that, too, like celebrating the amazing school leaders and educators and students and parents who actually make our school what it is. Because oftentimes, you know, you're just hearing from the enrollment people.
00;33;16;09 - 00;33;50;12
Natasha Estey
But all these other people that are just such inspirations in the school. So I was asked by our Director of Enrollment to develop a podcast series and we ended up calling it York Talks. And so the idea, also more specifically, too is we in the past, we would have special short events where prospective families could come and listen to, you know, our athletic director talk about athletics at the school or our university counseling director talk about our approach to university counseling.
00;33;51;01 - 00;34;10;03
Natasha Estey
So we've done sort of these mini kind of like lunch and learn York Talks-type events in the past. But of course, we couldn't do those in person and we thought, “Well, why not take that idea and turn it into a podcast series?” And so, it was it was an interview format.
00;34;11;04 - 00;34;37;03
Natasha Estey
I ultimately wrote and produced two seasons of the podcast during this pandemic time. And so it's and again, the White Paper kind of goes into more details, but everything from like figuring out what the intro music is going to be and which platform are we going to host the podcast on. We ended up choosing Buzzsprout, you know that I had to figure out how do I book, how do I figure out who I want to talk to for the next episode and then get them on the calendar, as you can appreciate that’s sometimes hard to accomplish.
00;34;37;16 - 00;34;54;10
Natasha Estey
And then also developing the interview questions that, and it's funny when you said at the beginning that you did a little bit of research about me before we chatted because I would do the same thing with all of my guests is want to have a little something that I could sort of bring into the conversation.
00;34;54;20 - 00;35;19;20
Natasha Estey
And then, of course, I was conducting all the interviews as well. And so and the technical aspects that come with that. And sort of envisioning this first series as being really more focused on like the 10,000 foot view, kind of looking at the different buckets of different parts of our school. And then the second season, we really wanted to start to sort of go into like, what is it like?
00;35;19;20 - 00;35;38;21
Natasha Estey
What would it be like to be a student in grade four at, you know, at the junior school? Or what is it like, you know, if you're doing the our special approach to grade nine, which we call the ICE Program, those kinds of things that let us sort of dive more deeply into different areas that I could talk to, to teachers that taught, you know, taught the arts.
00;35;38;21 - 00;36;06;22
Natasha Estey
And why are the arts important that kind of thing. And so in that way, it was nice because you had kind of an arc to each season and I was able to in that process also know, I guess, work with other people that kind of worked in the podcast space. Like at the beginning I really tapped into all the resources I could get because I just was literally starting from scratch.
00;36;06;22 - 00;36;30;12
Natasha Estey
I had no idea even where to begin. So that was tremendously helpful. And also one of my colleagues, her son was a film student and he ended up audio editing the episodes. So Beth, kind of a version of what I guess you're doing with this one. But he would sort of on the back end, we'd cut out all the dead, you know, those dead moments and times when I might stumble over my words or what have you.
00;36;30;12 - 00;37;05;12
Natasha Estey
And he, you know, put together these beautiful episodes. And that was like, I couldn't have done that myself with or I would probably be spending all my time just trying to, to get these episodes out. So it was a wonderful learning experience for me. I just I love gaining these new skills, but it also sort of tapped into, as we've talked about before, like another sort of skill set that I already had in a sense with having to develop interviews and conduct interviews and be able to develop rapport with people, that kind of thing.
00;37;05;12 - 00;37;23;15
Natasha Estey
Really, I was really able to capitalize on this and some of that sort of skill set or background that I already already had in the context of this, of this wonderful, challenging project. And I have to say, like, the podcast has been really popular. Like we we continue to get great. You know.
00;37;23;21 - 00;37;26;10
Janice Crampton
Yeah, I was going to ask you if you had a third season or...
00;37;26;18 - 00;37;45;06
Natasha Estey
Yeah, we are. It's funny, we were just, our Director of Enrollment and I were just talking about this just the other day about, okay, if we're going to do another, you know, another podcast season, what now? What is it we want to focus on? And I, of course, have a ton of ideas of what I would love that to look like.
00;37;45;06 - 00;38;07;18
Natasha Estey
And I think there's so much potential to also even like tap into our own our own student body. We have students in grade 11 and 12 who are taking film studies, and we have students in grade nine who are doing podcasting themselves. And so I think that could also be a wonderful opportunity to integrate their learning into that experience also.
00;38;07;18 - 00;38;28;03
Natasha Estey
So I have to say, stay tuned. We're definitely, definitely, you know, it's not over. It's just on pause as we've gotten back into our kind of pre-pandemic routine in many ways. But it's something that we continue to realize. This is a pretty powerful medium to connect with with prospective families, for sure.
00;38;28;24 - 00;39;04;26
Janice Crampton
Tell me how you all have, first of all, congratulations for the success, not only the success, but also your your leaning into this. You know, but my question to you is, again, often times we will hear from people in the practice that will say, this is great, Janice, like, thank you for yet another idea. But at some point, how do I begin to sift through all of these ideas and set up a prioritization of. And in the spirit of, yes, you took advantage again, advantage is in italics, because I don't want to hear from anybody that I
00;39;04;29 - 00;39;30;22
Janice Crampton
took advantage of Natasha. What I'm saying is, is that you seized the moment in this pandemic to offer something. And now we are back, as you said, to sort of pre-pandemic mode of operation with in-person tours. And da-da-dah-da-dah. And to layer this on have you just added or did you cross something off or stop doing something?
00;39;32;10 - 00;39;59;00
Natasha Estey
Yeah, that. I would say that when I was doing the podcast, it was an add on to the other things I was doing. And so it certainly I would be doing work later in the evenings or doing things on weekends to kind of fit it in around the edges as best I could. And so that's certainly part of the conversation.
00;39;59;00 - 00;40;21;09
Natasha Estey
As you know, as your kind of responsibilities of your day to day, often take up your whole day, like where do you fit it in? Where do you make make time for it? And you can understandhow much time it takes to prepare too for an episode and the post part, you sort of have in your head how many hours it's likely going to take.
00;40;22;12 - 00;40;48;09
Natasha Estey
And so I think it's doable in a way. I think there's always places you can find other little efficiencies, but it isn't removing something else. It would just be finding a way to fit it in, which I'm still continue to be really, really open to and would love for that, for that opportunity. But it's like you have to have that kind of mindset towards that, I think, yeah.
00;40;48;24 - 00;41;25;10
Janice Crampton
Yeah. Well and not only the mindset but also to have others supporting you in this mindset. Again many, many years ago, remember that thing called the introduction of social media. Now it's so much of our lives, right? But you know, 2007, if I hearken back to that year, that really wasn't that long ago. But where I'm going with this is Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Snapchat, and the big topic of discussion is where should schools be, how frequently, how much the content, you know, so on and so on.
00;41;25;10 - 00;41;54;13
Janice Crampton
And you know, again, I vividly remember and recall conversations with Brenden Schneider of SchneiderB (Media), for example, who said, one of the things that schools will do is they'll start it, but they won't maintain it. Or they'll start it and then they'll be so unpredictable in the posting. Do you feel that podcasting is not only a wonderful idea for people to consider, but make sure you're not doing aim, fire, ready.
00;41;54;14 - 00;41;59;16
Janice Crampton
Right? Really map it out. Any sort of rules of engagement or suggestions to people?
00;41;59;24 - 00;42;25;23
Natasha Estey
Yeah, I think you're raising a really important point. And I mean, certainly we're probably guilty of this in a sense, because we've had a pause on releasing new episodes recently. There's been a number of times, because I'm an avid podcast listener myself, and so sometimes I'll find what like it looks like a really interesting podcast and I'll go to Stitcher or whatever medium I'm using.
00;42;25;29 - 00;42;43;06
Natasha Estey
And I realize, wait a second, it was all this, you know, kind of hoopla to start this podcast, but then there's only like four episodes and then they haven't... like what happened to that momentum? And so I do agree like that idea that you kind of go into something seeing like, okay, this is going to be great and we can do this.
00;42;43;06 - 00;43;05;25
Natasha Estey
And then for whatever reason, that momentum is lost. And I also feel like depending on how you set it up, you could be releasing like a podcast, a new episode every couple of weeks. It could be once a month. It could be even, you know, for some some cases people are doing that, you know, releasing more than once a week.
00;43;06;19 - 00;43;32;01
Natasha Estey
But I think as long as if you set a cadence like to say we're going to have ten episodes to kind of cover the whole school year, maybe once a month, a new episode comes out. But if you set that cadence to try and sort of stick to that as best you can, and just so that your your audience has a sense of what's to come and also really understanding who your audience is. Right. Because I know in our case anyway,
00;43;32;01 - 00;43;33;02
Janice Crampton
Oh, absolutely
00;43;33;18 - 00;44;03;08
Natasha Estey
I mean, the audience for this podcast is in obviously very different than the audience we had for our podcast and so I think always keeping that in mind as well makes a big difference because we, for example, were thinking about what information do we need to get out in our episodes before, for example, the application deadline because if we're trying to connect with prospective families that might be deciding, “Oh, do we want to move forward with an application to the school based on things we're learning about it.”
00;44;04;17 - 00;44;21;09
Natasha Estey
That was also something important to keep in mind as we were sort of planning out what the, you know, what the whole season would look like. And when I say we, you know, the proverbial we, I guess is that was sort of I was doing this then I would sort of check it out with everybody else to say, does this resonate with everyone else as well?
00;44;21;28 - 00;44;43;25
Natasha Estey
Then I just sort of ran with it. Like honestly, it was very much I kind of just was running with it on my own in many ways, and then just sort of doing lots of checking in along the way. But that - I agree. I think it's important to to keep up some kind of momentum if you're going to engage in that and then think about what that looks like in terms of frequency and then be consistent 100%.
00;44;43;26 - 00;45;14;18
Janice Crampton
The long road of all of this. I did chuckle when you said we and then you pause. We use that term with great frequency here at AISAP. The we might be me, myself and I or this is, you know, a committee of two or whatever. So in the spirit of you gathering data and surveying and seeing what it has done in an impactful way, either positively or negatively, we need to understand what did this podcast do to move the needle on what?
00;45;14;18 - 00;45;40;13
Natasha Estey
Oh, yeah, that's another really great question, because you can talk about how many downloads, how many listens? Do people listen to the entire episode? Do they drop off after 15 minutes? You can look at all those analytics we had even now like we are still promoting the podcast and on average we're having, you know, 50 downloads of various episodes every week still because I get my weekly wonderful kind of update.
00;45;41;06 - 00;46;06;22
Natasha Estey
So it's still happening. And so obviously the content is still relevant enough even and even though some of those episodes were recorded during the pandemic, it's really great. Great to know. And in terms of kind of moving the needle, I mean, some of it's anecdotal. I know one of the things that you talk about gathering data, it's like, well, could you say, how did you hear about the school?
00;46;06;22 - 00;46;31;03
Natasha Estey
Or what are some different things that influenced you wanting to look at the school more closely? Could you say, Well, is the podcast something in that mix? And when I say some of my comments are anecdotal because I would ultimately be conducting an interview with with parents. They would say and I think it was specifically it was a family actually was applying from they were living in San Francisco and they were applying because they were looking to make a move to Toronto and
00;46;31;27 - 00;46;49;09
Natasha Estey
they were like, “We've listened to all your podcast episodes. It's so neat to be able to talk to you because, you know, we've been hearing you as the the host of this podcast and it's been so, so informative.” And that's the other really neat thing is if you see and again, any podcast platform can sort of show you like from where people listen.
00;46;49;09 - 00;47;09;07
Natasha Estey
And I was fascinated because you see that there's someone that listened from like Singapore and people that were listening from in the UK and then in Australia because you're getting that kind of reach because again these are prospective families who maybe are moving and just are trying to gather information about all the schools that they're exploring.
00;47;09;07 - 00;47;47;17
Natasha Estey
And so I got really excited about that. And whether that actually translated into more applications, which is one of the certainly KPIs or key performance indicators that you're tracking. Again, it's sort of hard to know like where's the horse and where's the cart kind of thing. I think the podcast ended up being part of a mix of ways that we tried to really create a very high touch intimate connection with our school when we couldn't do any of that in person during the time.
00;47;47;17 - 00;48;13;00
Natasha Estey
So I think it played a role in in some other initiatives that we that we took on at that time. And certainly our applications were on balance, you know, up and they're up again this year, even though we haven't had the podcast as active, but we're still utilizing it. So again, there's a lot of those pieces where you sort of have to think a bit more about, like, as you said, how to tell that story about how those pieces play.
00;48;13;00 - 00;48;42;07
Janice Crampton
And beginning with the end in mind. What does success look like? Right? How are you going to, in fact, measure success? I certainly know that again, a couple of things. But one is, let us not forget, admission is not only about the recruitment of new students, admission and enrollment is about retaining. So, yes, you may find that York Talks has done tremendous work, even though it might not be measured in this way towards retention, that people are listening to it.
00;48;42;07 - 00;49;21;08
Janice Crampton
And so now to give you one more data point, but, you know, would be kind of interesting to imagine if you could track to see whoever is listening in the, you know, San Francisco, Singapore, whatever area that's new, and then somebody else is returning. But again, I agree with what you're saying, Natasha. You never know the impact that you're going to make at some point, which in some ways brings me back to our beginning as we draw our time to a close. Imagine, when you were X age at X stage and you did some work for The York School and you said, “Ah, I like that school,” and now look where you are
00;49;21;08 - 00;49;26;00
Janice Crampton
now. There you are. Yeah. Making a dent in the universe, my friend.
00;49;26;06 - 00;49;29;15
Natasha Estey
My own little dent in my own little way.
00;49;29;15 - 00;49;32;03
Janice Crampton
That's right. Yeah. And how old is your baby now?
00;49;32;08 - 00;49;37;09
Natasha Estey
Well, yeah, he's had his own sort of journey. He is now 12 years old in grade seven.
00;49;37;18 - 00;49;51;28
Janice Crampton
And this is a riot, I have to tell you. I've got to look at the calendar again, because I literally in my brain was thinking, baby, baby. Your baby is 12? Yeah, clearly did not look at the years. That’s a riot.
00;49;52;02 - 00;50;10;11
Natasha Estey
And he's actually a student at our school now. He’s in grade seven at The York School. He was there for kindergarten and then it was at our local public school for grades one through six, and it's back in grade seven. And so one of the things that I love about that is I get to wear my parent hat as well as my enrollment hat.
00;50;10;11 - 00;50;23;28
Natasha Estey
And that's a pretty wonderful place to be to sort of experience what he's experiencing on a day to day basis. I think it actually makes me able to do my job that much better because I have that.
00;50;23;28 - 00;50;32;11
Janice Crampton
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So Natasha, as a thinker with an artist's soul, what would you say or write as your motto?
00;50;33;08 - 00;50;52;02
Natasha Estey
Yeah. So I have a few different things that I sometimes kind of... And this is connected back to probably the thinker with an artist's soul kind of orientation to life. But I a couple of things that terms that come to mind is I'm I'm a big fan of Rumi.
00;50;55;16 - 00;51;28;08
Natasha Estey
One of the things that Rumi has is to live life as if everything is rigged in your favor, which I love, because so much for me is about I try to live a life where I'm assuming positive intent from others. And this sort of comes with trying to kind of have a positive attitude towards my work life and the way I interact with my colleagues and in trying to have that orientation that yeah, live your life as if everything is rigged in your favor and...
00;51;28;08 - 00;51;30;13
Janice Crampton
Live your life as everything is rigged in your favor
00;51;30;13 - 00;51;31;09
Natasha Estey
Yeah.
00;51;31;21 - 00;51;32;27
Janice Crampton
Oh! I love that.
00;51;33;08 - 00;51;55;29
Natasha Estey
And another one that I love, too, that actually is something that my dad would always say to me is and he's probably sort of lifted it from some other quote somewhere else, but he always would say, keep one eye on the stair and one eye on the future. And so what he, I think ,means there that resonates with me is this idea that, you know, you need to focus on those immediate tasks or goals that you have.
00;51;55;29 - 00;52;11;07
Natasha Estey
But don't lose sight of the bigger picture as you're like, you always kind of need to be finding that balance between kind of dealing with what's right in front of you, but keepingin mind what the bigger kind of picture and longer term goal is. And I just love the kind of visual of that idea.
00;52;11;07 - 00;52;27;02
Natasha Estey
Like, not that we can have one eye looking at a stair in one eye in the future. But as a younger person that really resonated with me because he often would say that to me when I was a younger person sort of looking ahead to say university or or what have you back in the day.
00;52;27;02 - 00;52;45;16
Janice Crampton
So when I repeat that phrase, I'm going to give attribution to you, but in actuality, you said it was your dad and who knows, we're going to have someone come from, you know, left field and say, “No, it was...” So somewhere along the line we'll find out.
00;52;45;18 - 00;52;47;15
Natasha Estey
If they find who said where that came from.
00;52;47;15 - 00;53;17;20
Janice Crampton
But yeah, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Well, Natasha, it's been, again, an honor and a privilege to spend time with you today and I really want to emphasize that what I have enjoyed so much about our time together today, but also so much about the story that you shared here, is that you are that continuous learner and you also are incredibly, incredibly curious.
00;53;18;07 - 00;53;51;23
Janice Crampton
And whether it's because of the foot on the stair and the focus on the future or that in fact, things are coincidental or not, keep going with that creativity because you again are really making a difference. And I look forward to seeing you more involved with this wonderful global association. I have some ideas that I've jotted down, and anyone who knows me will probably send you a quick email, saying, “No, no, no, do caller ID because when Janice comes a calling, you're going to be volunteering again.”
00;53;51;24 - 00;53;56;03
Janice Crampton
But anyway, great stuff, Natasha and in an honor and privilege to work with you.
00;53;56;04 - 00;54;06;07
Natasha Estey
Oh well it's been an honor and privilege to be a part of this conversation today. I really, really enjoyed our time and our conversation. So thank you so much.
00;54;07;14 - 00;54;21;19
Janice Crampton
We hope you enjoyed this episode of WeAdmit! To learn more about the Association of Independent School Admission Professionals and how you can take advantage of membership benefits, visit AISAP.org, that's AISAP.org