Perfecting Primary-Turning Around the Fortunes of a City Primary

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Wellspring Break, Wellspring's Fortnightly Podcast. It's our opportunity to chat all things education with experts across Wellspring and beyond. Joining me in front of the mic today is someone who's right at the colourface of education. Executive Principal across two of Wells Springs primaries in Leeds. She's a talented leader who's proven her ability to transform the fortunes of schools with challenges. Her work at Bramley Park Academy in Leeds has been incredible, and she's brilliant at building effective teams and working with parents and the wider community to make positive change. My guest today is Executive Principal at Bramley Park Academy and Elements Primary in Leeds, Carrie Green. Carrie, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Now, first question. We're a few weeks in. How's the start of the year been?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

It's been very, very busy but very, very productive as always. Challenges that we always face at the start of the year, but a great start across both of the sites. We're delighted to welcome four teachers across both sites starting off on their new careers. Brand new teachers. Brand new teachers, ECTs, and I think that's wonderful. And testimony to both of the schools that they're being given that wonderful opportunity to work with such incredible teams to start off on their journeys. So that's been brilliant to see. Absolutely does feel like that. It does feel like a normal start, and that people are allowed to just get back down to that that hard face of being able to just get on and teach children without having to worry about you know being in bubbles or whatever, you know, that those times were. It's crackers when you look back in the world. It's completely crackers when you think what you were doing, and people couldn't go out of classrooms and couldn't go in there to see children. Whereas now we're really being able to get that those interventions going and people mixing with children and children having lots of different experiences. We've got platform education working across both of the sites and as dedicated MPE coaching, which is brilliant, that we would have never been able to do before. So that's great, really upskilling children in terms of their PE skills and staff as well. So that's that's a wonderful thing to be happening, as well as uh Nathan Larvin from Little Legs, where he comes in and supports our youngest children um with rugby. Um so that's that's a beautiful experience. So we're talking kind of reception kids in the room. There's a reception children at both sites that are doing that are doing rugby. So um, yeah, Nate does great um sessions with with our youngest pupils in developing those initial team building skill sets. So um, yeah, great, great work going with those guys.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Um so you're across Elements and Bramley now. Yeah. Um I'm being interrupted by Hamish, the school dog now, he's come for a cuddle. Hello, Hamish. I wanted to talk to you first a bit about Bramley, because I think it's fair to say that you had a a rough start at that school, how things were when you kind of joined it.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Tell me a little bit about that and how that so yeah, well, it's four years actually coming up, um 1st of November. So it's been four years. So yes, it was. It was a um a tricky one. It's been on an incredible journey, really, and the staff are testimony to that, the team, because even though we had to restructure um the school as soon as we got there because of the huge deficit budget that I'd been left with, you know, the staff team have come with me and and absolutely believed in that that vision and the journey for Bramler because everybody's so committed to the the families and the community there. Um we've we've just had a review um last week where Sir Clive Davis from Focus Education had been in, and he came originally when we first um started there to do some work with us, and and the journey says is incredible. You know, the outcome, the output, and the work ethic of children in the buildings absolutely first class. And he didn't say it's one of the calmest uh schools he's ever been in. So I'm sure it's not calm every single day, is it, Amish? But um it does, it does, it does feel um it does feel like an incredible journey, and it is an incredible journey, and that's that's because everybody came together as a team, and I can't stress that as much. It's it is absolutely relationships. We need to forge those straight away with the team to be able to have that shared vision that we all know where we're going, we all know where we're moving to, and being really clear and articulate with that to everybody and the community, and then we can see the journey as it unfolds and be part of it, really.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah, how how tricky was it to um kind of explain that vision to both to staff and and also parents and that wider community?

SPEAKER_01 4:52

I think it was about keeping it simple. I mean, I talked about this when I first came here. You know, I was presented with a 54-point action plan when I first walked in there, and that's just completely unrealistic. And it's it's about simplicity, isn't it? And keeping things really simple and really clear. Um and these are the five things we're working on now, and those are the next steps, and and that's what we're trying to achieve here at Elements. These are the five things we need to work on this year, and then we're moving on to the next thing, and that's and and keeping it simple, it then does allow you to very easily share that vision with a community as well because it's not bogged down in educational jargon. People can really see what you're trying to do, and and and making sure that why is clearly explained very simply simplistically, um, and and any stakeholder can engage with it so you can take it to your governing body, you can take it to the community, you know, you can share it with your parents, um, and and even with children, and they can see see what you're trying to do, and and that's that's how we achieved that at Bramley, and quickly got the um the community back on on side. Um, they were really disappointed, and rightly so. You know, the school was in measures. Why, you know, as a parent, why wouldn't you be disappointed by that? Um, but because they could see straight away the impact we had very, very quickly, and more so I think with the environment of the building, which was tired, you know, it it was it was really not great. Um, and and we we we did an amazing job, you know, with Josh and the estates team, you know, get uh we we received lots of grants from the DFE to be able to to um improve the environment, improve the the entrance there. You know, we had great partnership working with Scott who helped me out with some spare furniture from the old primary site from Springwell for the library. So it was a real well-spring team approach, and yeah and but to give that facelift really, really quickly from the trust helped to you know that the parents have been blown away by just how much the building has been improved for youngsters and and and the play equipment that's outside.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I remember coming round and you show me round and and you know explaining to me what it was like before and just the simple things of painting, painting things and giving it a bit of colour.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Absolutely. I mean I always say white paint goes a long, long way, and it was one of the first things we did the first weekend before I went in after the half term. We painted just the the old entrance just white, it and it just to and put some simple matting down with the the the new logo on, and it was just so so much more welcoming and and and removing those those horrible floors, you know, the old asbestos floor that we just carpeted over. So some things you can change very, very quickly, and not at a massive cost by just making sure things are clean and there's clean lines there and the environment can change instantly.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

And it's that really visible because obviously a lot of changes when you you transform in a school, you don't see you know it's isn't it's in classrooms and it's teaching and it's all kinds of things, but that for the parents to be able to see straight away, oh right, they're they mean business, they're they're turning this around.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

They absolutely did, and it was difficult at the start because we did have to restructure and there there were um some redundancies, and and that obviously ripples out into a community. But by by balancing that for them seeing just how much we were investing in pupils in terms of the uniform, the PE kit, and the the aesthetics really helped to keep that message true, and they could understand then exactly what we were what we were doing. I do really recognise it now when I've been at Elements for a couple of days, and I go back and I walk the corridors there, and I can absolutely see those aw and wonder moments going on, I can absolutely see what other people tell me about it being calm and purposeful and outcomes. And kids are just absolutely loved there, they're wrapped up with love and care, which is exactly what we we achieve, you know, or try to endeavour to achieve across the trust, but that's absolutely why it has changed the way it has, because every single member of staff treats those children like they're their own, they wrap them up with that love and care, and they go that extra mile every single day, and you can see that you know, whether it's somebody who's upset or just making sure that child has has what they need.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

That's all you want as a parent, isn't it? You send you know your most precious thing off to um to school every day, you want to know that they're absolutely wrapped in love every day. That's that's what you need to see. Yeah. Um am I right in thinking that children get their uniform provided them by parameter?

SPEAKER_01 9:12

So we provide them with a full school uniform every year, and then we've got a bank of P Kit, but because it's been such great quality, we've what we do is repurpose that in school and and then bag that up. So, you know, all we say to our parents is you just need to provide them with a pair of shoes and we will do the rest. And and that's been life-changing for some of our parents who've actually said that to us. You know, we've got one mum who's got 11 children, and she said, 'You've changed my life, Carrie,' with this, and and that's great feedback. And especially in these times that we're experiencing now, that's um a huge thing. But it it makes sure we've got that pride and aspiration for our pupils. You know, some of these kids, I can remember when we first gave them the their first little packet, and and one little girl just held on to it tight and said, I've I've never had anything that's mine. Oh god, um and it does. And there was another little girl that just walked down the corridor and she was just you know straightening herself and and and she said, Oh, I've I've never had it, I've never had a new dress before. And that's and I think we all take that really for granted. But those kids, that's that's it was theirs, and and they absolutely loved it, and and they do, they love being smart. The kids are going to assembly there, and it does fill me with pride that you know these kids have presented in that way and they've they've got those aspirations to think, yeah, I look great, and I'm my learning's going to be great, and and I'm gonna have a lovely day.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Brilliant, brilliant. It's yeah, it's things like that, isn't it? It's it's a message to them that they matter, it's the same about their environment, it's you know, you're important and you matter, and um you can tell people that, but you have to show them as well.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Absolutely, and I think that's what the parents you know got about at the first. I don't think they were very happy about the uniform because there'd been a lot of mixed messages about it before I arrived, but when they realised what we were actually giving them, um they were bowled over by it, by how much we were investing in in the pupils and the families, um and that their kids absolutely did matter. Um, but it's about that clear communication all of the time, isn't it? About what what the the end in mind, isn't it, all of the time?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um I wonder why more schools don't well obviously it's finances, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

But if your school can do it, then it is, and it is finances, and don't get me wrong, moving forward in these challenging times it's going to be really difficult, but we need to think about what makes Bramley Bramley and and what we've committed to doing there. Um and and and it is about finding a way, and we'll always try and find a way, even if it's through fundraising, to make sure that we can still provide that. But I think for schools in in really deprived areas like that with big families, it's it's a great thing to be able to do.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

It really is. Last one of the last times I went to Bramley, um, which is quite a while ago now, um, we were looking at the um resource provision. Yes. Um I mean that's amazing, isn't it, for um S E and D kids and and the whole community. How essential are facilities like that for keeping children with SE and D in mainstream?

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Absolutely fundamentally it's uh resource provisions are absolutely that bridging gap between mainstream education and special, and it's in and and a lot of children just need that little bit of something different to just make sure they can access and be part of that mainstream education, and the RP does you know accomplishes that really, really well. Um, we've got children that come into the RP that may need to spend their full time there for a period of time, and then they gradually ease back into um the main school. We've got a young girl there that up until coming to us had not accessed school, she was an elective mute, she's in classrooms now, she's speaking to everybody, but it's just being able to be brought in and have that secure environment, that safe environment, um, and then gradually building that success and that confidence back. Um I mean the resource provision's been a great success for the 10 children that we've got now in there, um, and but but for the whole child the whole community at Bramley and and our one of our um development points for this year that Nicola Booth, who's our new RP leader this year, is working on is making sure we're inviting the community in now because COVID's well it's not gone, we know it's not gone, but we're not under restrictions. Um we can then start to um invite the community in to use it. Some of the local um groups can come in and do that on a let in, and that's what we want to do to really be able to um see it as a community venture as well as just as as a Bramley um support mechanism for for children in Leeds.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

That's brilliant, isn't it? I think there's yeah, when you think about kind of communities now, um I guess schools are taking more and more of that focal point, and we don't have as many focal points in communities as we once had, you know, you had things like the church and yeah, village halls and stuff, and and you don't get as much of that anymore.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

You do, and I think that's been lost, and particularly like in communities like Bramley, that's absolutely lost, and making sure that the school is at the heart of the community, and that's what we're striving to do here at Elements is is get the doors open again as well, and be really making sure the school is at the heart of the community, um especially in deprived areas, that's vital in terms of that lifeline for services and support for families.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah. So moving on to Elements then. Um you've you're you're now um heading up Elements as well as Bramley. Um I mean you walk around this place, we're here today, it is a phenomenal building, isn't it? It's absolutely stunning. What difference does it make to have facilities like this?

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Well, it means you can you can focus absolutely on the learning, you're not worrying about those things that are broken or have always been broken, but just for children for me, it's about the environment and being able to come in to learn somewhere that's so beautiful and spectacular, and everything that around them is wonderful, and that gives those experiences just that extra bit of sparkle for the children here at Elements and being able to, you know, have the dance studio to do their dance lessons in and the DT room for cookery, which you know, I mean, there won't be many schools that have these facilities here, but just the aesthetics, and you know, Sarah's done an amazing, amazing job here with making it as beautiful as it is, and and and children feel safe and secure in that environment, and it allows them and the staff to really foster that creativity and what we're trying to do with children via learning because they're in such a creative environment.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, I mean it's it is phenomenal, just the colours and and everything. It is it's a it's an amazing building for anyone who's not who's not seen it, get online and have a little look at it. It's a it's a brilliant building. Um I want to have a little talk to you about your kind of career and your background. Did you always know you wanted to be a teacher?

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Always, always. I've come from a family of teachers. Um my dad was a deputy head at a big um high school in Leeds, and my mum only did it for a year, and then anyway, she moved on to something else. But you know, my sister's a teacher, my aunties and uncles were teachers. Um, so always I always wanted to just be like my dad. Um, and yeah, and I always remember as a small girl that's all I wanted to play was teachers, and and that's it. So I I never had any other thought in my head, you know, I got to A-levels and I knew that's what I wanted to do, I wanted to do a degree and then do teacher training. Um, and you know, when people say to me a moan and groan, I said, you know what, it's the best job in the world because you make a difference every single day, and there's never been a time I've never wanted to come to work. I absolutely love my job. Um, I don't really see it as a job, I see it as a vocation. I know Sam said it at the um at the anniversary, you know, she just thought it was, you know, I was just coming to to play with my friends, and that's how I see it. I say, you know, both schools as a real family, group of fabulous sets of people that you can come and spend your day with and make a real, real difference for children. Um, and and and it just yeah, it always makes me feel great. Don't get me wrong, we have tough days, we all do, don't we? But but yeah, I've never wanted to do anything different, and I don't think I ever will. It's just about being here and being with people and making that difference for young people and seeing those smiles and from staff, when you see staff move on as well. I get a real buzz out of that when I see people who've been TAs for me that are now teachers, you know, people who are teachers for me, you know. Amy wrote, Amy Spivey wrote in The Difference Matters. You know, it gave me goosebumps when she'd said what she'd written, but that's what it's about, isn't it? It's about developing people, and she's now a really confident assistant principal for me, and it'll go on to school leadership, absolutely, and and that's what it's about as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

And I mean you you see all those kind of like tweet quotes and all the rest of it, but it it is it it's an amazing, you know, if you want to make a difference, if you really want to kind of have impact on the world, there's not much better than teaching, really.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

No, there's not, there's not, and there's there's so many great things, and I think it it makes me cross when you see bad press about teaching and and and things that people say because there's so many great things about being with young people, even if just by the end of a day that child can tie their shoelaces because of you, or they've they've had a great PE session. I don't think there's many jobs that you get that reward and job satisfaction from. And there's so many great things about being in schools that I think as as as a profession we've got a job of doing of really promoting that instead of being negative all over Twitter saying, ooh, you know, about whatever the latest things we're all moaning about. And you know, it always kind of amazes me how how negative, you know, some heads seem to be all over these social media pages about about whatever the the the latest buzz thing is to be talking about instead of really being positive about the amazing things we do for children and people.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

I think that's human nature that spreads across so many things, isn't it? There's that old thing that they teach you in marketing that you know one bad story they'll people will tell seven people or something. Yes. One good story they'll tell one or something. It's it's that kind of thing. So you're absolutely right. I think we do need to do a lot more um work on on selling the best bits of it. Absolutely. Yeah. Um I've mentioned Hamish, and he's here again. Um Hamish at school dog. Tell me about bringing your dog into school and what an impact that had.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

So well Hamish was, I mean, we weren't one of those people in lockdown that got a dog, but we we'd we'd talked a lot about it at Bramley when we were we were opening the resource provision, and we decided we wanted to get um um the dog to come to be the therapy dog for the resource provision. So that's why Hamish appeared at Bramley. Um and we because we still managed to open the resource provision through COVID. So he he was um sought really, and to obviously pacify my little fella as well that we were finally getting a dog, but um, yes, so that's why because we knew we'd done a lot of the research, we'd seen the real positive impact he's he's had at um yeah, right on cue at Springwell with all of the dogs that they have there and the impact they have on the children there. Um so we knew it worked. Um, and Lisa Ford had been coming in supporting us um with the Senko role, and she'd been bringing Stanley with us, so that's we said, right, we're going to do it, we're going to get the dogs. So that's why Hamish came and it's had such an amazing impact with not just the children in the RP, it works with all of the children across Bramley and now Elements. So it comes to Elements, and it's been a great success here. Um just working with children that obviously need that little bit of something different just to help the day. But absolutely for those children who see it as a reward to be able to come and spend that time with Hermish. So it's a great incentive for lots of people, but a great comfort as well for everybody. But he certainly does his job, he goes home every night and is uh he's a very, very tired puppy when he gets home. He sleeps most of the night, but um, he certainly um he earns his biscuits, don't you, Hamish, by the end of the week?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

He's so adorable. I God, I wish we had dogs in school when I was at school. Brilliant. Um, he's lovely. Um moving on to our quick fire round that we do. Get a little bit of a taste of your own school days.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

First up, English or maths? Maths. Bit so, yeah, kind of logic and stuff like that. Definitely, yeah. Um primary school or secondary school? Primary. Why was that?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Um I just always enjoyed um spending time with with younger children. I swam for City of Leeds and I did a lot of coaching with little ones at the swimming club. Um, and I just yeah, I just always saw that as my um vocation. And I can remember my dad saying to me earlier at me for saying this, he said, Oh, don't do primary carry, you'll never get a promotion. And um, because my dad's primary, my sister's primary, and all my family were um sorry, they were secondary, and I was the only person that had done primary. So I can remember when I when I got my first headship at 31, I said to my dad, Do you remember me saying that? We we laugh about it now. Um, but I actually think it's it's not about promotion, is it? But it's yeah, I just I just enjoyed the time with with doing that, um having That mix of a primary classroom and getting a little bit of everything. I did a music degree, but I never really saw myself being a music teacher. I liked maths, I liked you know creative things and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Well, I know what the answer to the next one is: music or drama. Music. Definitely music. Do you play anything?

SPEAKER_01 22:19

I play the piano, I can play the guitar a little bit, but I wouldn't actually advocate that. I do singing, I think that's one thing I've always kept close to my heart. I sing with the children every week. I'll try my very best to not let that go. So I've been singing here this morning a bit of cauliflowers fluffy. We are, which is actually a pain box. But everybody loves that look. So we've been doing that here this morning. So I sing every Thursday morning here at Elements and on a Wednesday morning at Bramley. I mean we're getting there here at Elements, but I mean if you ever want to come in, the children sing beautifully at Bramley. Um so we're really proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Oh, I have to get some stuff on um on social of them singing and get that shared. Um outdoor or indoor break? Outdoor. Outdoor. Get outside, yeah. Although I I used to like kind of you know, you get jigsaws out and stuff at indoor break, rainy rainy day play, get away.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

I always think everybody needs a bit of fresh air, no matter what. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

School trips or school discos.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

I think school trips, school discos are great, but school trips just to give children experiences of different things. A lot of our children at both schools don't don't get that and never will. They've probably not been out of the local the local area, so it's so important to make them. I mean, I think last year we took a trip down to the Royal Armour is from Bramley, and the children had a lot of the children hadn't even been into Leeds, never they'd not been out of Bramley. That's the first time they'd been out of that little direct area. Yeah, that tiny area. So it's so important, so important. And and for children to understand that cultural capital and where they're from. And one of the topics at um at Bramley this time, this this first um autumn one has been I love Leeds, so just understanding, you know, the city and and and the strengths of the city.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Oh my gosh, it's an amazing city. So to not be able to have even oh gosh, yeah, to not have been aware of what's right there on your doorstep. Yeah. And what about you? What when you were at school, school trips or school discos?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

I'd have probably liked the disco better, but um, yeah, yeah, I didn't really like the trips, but um Amish, um yeah, but I'd probably said the disco at school, yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

And um did you prefer last week before Christmas or the last week before summer term?

SPEAKER_01 24:32

You know, when you get to do all the fun stuff, which um I think the Christmas one because it's just all of the excitement, and for me in a school it's about that awe and wonder and and and and being musical. I I you know I obviously do all the singing and I've always done the nativities, so just getting little ones doing that is just an amazing experience. And I think by the summer everybody's on the knees and adding up, but just yeah, Christmas is always a really, really special time in schools, really. It's kids that make Christmas, isn't it? Absolutely, and when you know, I always laugh about how many times I can play little donkey in in in one short period. I'm I'm I must be into quadruple figures by now in my career, but just to hear little ones sing, it's a it's a really magical time.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah, lovely. It's not that far away, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

No, we'll be on it again soon.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Um, and this is a question I ask everybody that comes on. If I gave you a magic wand and you could change absolutely anything about the education system, so there's no money to worry about or any practicalities, if you could change one thing, what would you do?

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Making sure children get their needs, you know, children with special educational needs who need that extra little bit of something get that absolutely straight away. That we're not waiting for years and years for kids to get diagnoses or support that we that we can intervene much quicker than we do.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

That's that would be my one magic wand.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah, it makes such a difference, wouldn't it? It really would. It really would. Um, well, thanks so much for taking your time out because I know you're ridiculously busy, so I really appreciate your own. Thank you for having me to talk to us. Um, yeah, it's really it's always good to hear from people that are in the in the kind of nitty-gritty of it every day, properly in based in schools. So thank you. Um, and next up we'll be hearing from Jason Thurley about how he turned around at secondary school that was very, very close to closure. Um, if you can't wait until then, there's a selection of episodes now available online to enjoy. Look forward to you joining us next time.