Checks and Balances – The Importance of Good Governance

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hi, and welcome back to the Wellspring Way, Wellspring's Fortnightly podcast, where we chat to education professionals and leaders about what's been going on in the sector. I'm really pleased to be joined on the show today by Wellspring's new chair of the board, Cheryl Hobson. Cheryl's been involved in Wellspring governance for seven years and recently took over the reins as chair of the Board of Trustees when Herl Lenton stepped down. With a successful 32-year career in finance, spanning local government and the NHS, and a number of non-exec roles, Cheryl clearly has the experience and skills to lead Wellsprings trustees and guide the trust through its next phase. Cheryl, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Hi Elizabeth, thank you. And I'm very pleased to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

It's lovely to have you. Now you've had a bit of a chance to settle into a new role.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

How are you finding it? Yes, uh, I have. Um it's um it's not particularly challenging in the sense of lots of meetings, but there are quite a few changes that have happened uh from a board perspective, really, over the last six months. So at the moment that's my key focus, and what we are doing as well is organising a number of visits to individual academies and groups of academies over the next few months.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Oh, that'll be really lovely. Um have you got kind of a timetable set up yet, or do you know where you're going first?

SPEAKER_02 1:26

I don't actually, it's in the process of being set up now. We've got a number of days over the next three months or so, so probably one to two days a week, and I'll be going out and visiting schools in the vicinity of each other, uh, which will be really good in terms of best use of time and meeting as many people as I can.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Brilliant, you'll have such a great time. I I was out of the school last week and it was it was just lovely. I was playing with the lities in the sandpit, it was just brilliant. Um, so you've been involved in Wellspring for seven years now.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

That's right, yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Tell me a little bit about that journey and how you started. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Um, so I started back in 2015, um, and from a professional career perspective, um, this was something that I'd wanted to get into with one eye, if I'm honest, on what I wanted to do in the future. Uh, and so I was at that time I was a chief finance officer in an NHS organisation, and it brought with it a number of opportunities for non-executive work, but what I also thought about was wanting to do something in my hometown, which is Barnsley, and that felt quite important for me at that particular time. Um, my daughter was actually just coming through primary school and going into secondary a couple of years after that, so it felt really important to get involved in something to do with education or um secondary or even uh post-16 learning, and that echoed part of the career that I'd had in local government where I really loved working around education and actually children's services in more generally. Um, so I applied to Barnsley College just on the off chance, just wrote a letter and said, I'm interested in non-executive work, I live locally, it's something I'm really passionate about. Do you have any vacancies on your board or any shadowing opportunities? And they came back to me more or less straight away and said, Well, actually, we've just filled a number of vacancies on our board, but we are a sponsor of a new multi-academy trust, which is Wellspring, and we'd really love you to get involved in that and come and have a look, talk to people. So that's what I did and started. I think it was very late 2015, but I've been um involved ever since, and it's something that I'm incredibly proud of doing.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

So it's a different, it's a different beast altogether now, isn't it? When you think back to kind of 2015.

SPEAKER_02 4:19

Absolutely. There were two academies at that point, both based in Barnsley. Um, and in the so I was on the board for probably about four years and then stepped down for a while, but was still involved in the committee work just because of the pressure of work from my um sort of professional side. Uh, and in that time, I think it's fair to say that the Academy Trust grew quite slowly, but there was there was lots of discussion. The board at that time was there were quite a lot of people there, it was quite interesting compared to now. Um, and it it helped me really to get a quite a deep understanding of not only the schools that were involved with the trust at that point, but actually getting engaged in how we developed and moved forward because the ambition was always there to basically spread the word, to spread the wellspring way, if you like. Um, and we had ambition to grow and expand and do the best we could for even more children and young people.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah, and here we are. And here we are today with 29 schools because Coombricks has just joined us, which is incredibly exciting. Um and governance plays a huge role in the success of a trust, doesn't it? It really does. But I don't think a lot of people perhaps really understand how it kind of works. For people that don't, can you kind of explain a little bit about how governance works in a multi-academy trust?

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Yes, um, and I think there are different models actually of governance, but certainly um from a wellspring perspective. The um so in every multi-academy trust there will be a board and there may or may not be committees depending on the scale and size and how they're organised. And the whole idea is that there is a body that is accountable and holds to account the executive of the trust, so the senior leadership team that we have here in the trust. And the way that we've organised it at Wellspring is that we delegate a huge amount of freedoms and flexibilities to individual academies, which is why they have their own governing bodies where the individual school leadership is accountable to the governing body of that. Um so governance is really all about ensuring that and not forgetting that the country, if you like, entrust public money to organisations like Multi-Academy Trusts. It's really important that we're accountable not only for the use of that money, but for the effectiveness of what we deliver in our purpose. So delivering, which sounds a bit pompous, but but that's effectively what governance is. So we're accountable for outcomes for children and young people, first and foremost, and and you know that's our reason for being. Um, and that's not just about exam results, it's not just about attainment, that's actually about distance travelled and development of children and young people. Um, and certainly in in certain sectors, um it's about developing and delivering, if you like, at the end of their journey with us, rounded, um happy, hopefully, uh, and positive children and young people to go to into their next stage of education or or into apprenticeships and work.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Yeah, absolutely. Um you hit on something there that's um that kind of comes through with everybody that I speak to from Wellspring, and um it's about um that wider, that wider impact. Um, yes, of course, we know exam results matter and um measured outcomes matter, but it's much, much more than that, isn't it? And Wellspring has really got to grips with that, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:43

I I believe so, and um one of the things that really impressed me on on day one when I first came here for a discussion with Mark Wilson about being a um a trustee, a director on the board. He was talking about Forest Academy, um, and one of the things that had been done really early on was involving Magic Breakfast, and it was about ensuring that you know kids didn't just come to school and were taught, it was actually about supporting that community and the whole premise that a child coming to school who hasn't had breakfast is not necessarily going to be in a good place to learn, yeah. Um, you know, if they're hungry, and and unfortunately, really sadly, actually, I think that situation is still the same today across the country.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Probably even worse. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

Yeah, and you know, I I get quite uh exercised about that, but but that's another story. Um so so that really impressed me because for me it was about recognising that a child is not an island, and this is not about just the how long is the school day? Six, eight hours when they're at school. It's actually about their life, and and if we want to encourage children in areas where they don't necessarily, um it isn't necessarily culturally a place where learning is valued. Um actually the first thing to do is ensure that they're they're they're calm, they're clean, yeah, that they're fed, it's that they're comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you don't get the bottom bit right, yes, you can't do the big stuff because yeah, it's yeah, get that stuff right. And um, I know so many of our schools have got community hubs and and they work really hard to provide those services to the families and give them all kinds of skills.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Um, and it's yeah, it's a it's a really, really wonderful absolutely, and and you know, and I do believe that again on that same theme it it's about families and it's about wider communities in some of the areas that that we we work in, you know, clearly um areas of need or that need support or uh other things, and and actually a school becomes a focal point for a community in in times of hardship and and just generally, actually. And I think that part of our very important role is to be that focal point, is to be that community hub, and that supports you know families in generationally, because certainly at primary level, families tend to send children to the same school, and it tends to be the one sort of nearest or just down the road. And that's really important because we get that input into families over perhaps a period of 20 plus years if there's more than one child, and what a privilege that is in terms of working with communities and families, and hopefully making things better and supporting more generations actually to um to learn and to um you know get work if that's if that's one of the issues, and uh just I think develop a sense of place and well-being, and that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, it certainly is. Um it's that thing of if you want to change the world, get into teaching, get into education, that's that's where it happens, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I absolutely agree. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Um so looking forward, you've already mentioned that one of your priorities is to get around and and visit all the schools in Wellspring. Um what are your other aims as chair of the board?

SPEAKER_02 12:43

So it is to get out and and meet people in school to understand how you know particular schools operate. You know, I'm I'm quite passionate about that. That brings it to life for me. Um sometimes I think from a board perspective it can feel quite detached, and I think it's really important to make those connections from a board level. And you know, I recognise that that's a challenge, um, but that doesn't uh mean that that we can't and shouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, it's very hard, isn't it, sometimes, if you're behind your desk all day or you're in a meeting and to to kind of get it, understand exactly the practicalities and and the reality of of what you're doing means.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Absolutely, and you know, one of the things I have to say is that the the people that we work with here at HQ, the the executive team and everybody who works here do a really, really good job of bringing that to life from a board perspective because it's recognised very much so that you know the board doesn't have a full-time role, we can't be here, there, and everywhere. But I do think, and particularly post-pandemic, um, I think it is important to get out there for people to know not only who you are from a sort of distant perspective, but actually really have met you, have a conversation, you know, hopefully find common ground, uh, and certainly from a personal perspective, I really enjoy going into schools and it it's just great. And it it really I think helps you focus on why you're doing what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

So I think in terms of other areas that I want to um sort of build on, and there's been hugely fantastic work done over the last seven years, certainly, and before that. Um I think one of the challenges for us as a board is to ensure that we're as connected as we should be into um local governing bodies. And that's not about sitting on people's shoulders, but actually it is about making the connections, and there will be ways that we we can and will do that. And I think you know, one of the really positive things is that the board members are really up for that, they really want to do that, that's important as well. And it feels that we're moving into a new era in terms of wellspring around its strategic plans, um, the fact that we're growing even further, uh, and that's hugely exciting. Um, and it's important that from a board perspective, we've got a board that represents all the skills and abilities that we need to be able to hold the executive to account, but also to be able to plan and develop our vision and refine our vision moving forward. That's a key part of the board's role. Um, so we've got a number of vacancies on the board, and that presents an opportunity to bring in you know people who may have done that before, people with the right focus and the right skills to complement the really positive people that we've got and the enthusiasm, and I see a really bright bright future moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

That was going to be my next question, actually. Um, you know, you've seen the progress over the last seven years. What are your ambitions for Wellspring as an organization in the future?

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Well, and I think that's a difficult one, and I have given it quite a lot of thought um before I took on this role and definitely since. Um and you know, there are so many fantastic achievements that the trust and its academies has made over its 10 years so far. Um and I think this next era is about consolidation, continuing consolidation, but it's also about growing, but but I think it's about bringing our ethos, the thing that binds us all together, um, to a wider set of communities and children and young people and families. Um, and you know, I'm really excited about that, and I think that there is growth, there needs to be growth, obviously, in terms of numbers of academies and and and numbers of schools, but I think what we'd also like to see is something around that um education career in terms of young people, so early years, primary, secondary, and then even post-16. That would be fantastic if we could see something developing in that area so that we can see that there are opportunities right through a young person's learning career, although you never stop learning.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Um, quite you definitely you definitely never stop learning. Um, yeah, it's um it's really exciting, isn't it? You know, there's there's loads, loads to look forward to.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

The other thing I wanted to say actually is that I'm really excited by the green agenda that we've got for Wellsbury. Okay. And I think the work that we're doing in terms of our buildings around uh building in as many and and finding the funding for as many um green initiatives as we possibly can. What I'd like to see is school buildings 10 years in the future that are equipped from a sustainability perspective to take us further, faster.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

And I think if you speak to any young person these days, one of the key things on their agenda is the is the issue around um climate change. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, it's um yeah, it's massive, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Absolutely, and again, I think if schools and and uh places of learning are going to be relevant moving forward, that's got to be one of the key things that we tackle. If we've got young people that are really passionate about that, how do we harness it? What do we do in terms of making facilities but also learning available to young people that helps them to explore that further and and and um you know moves that forward in terms of what we do as a group of Wellspring schools?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, I mean it's it's something we're very active in, isn't it? I mean you think about um the new college that we're opening in Scunthorpe, which is incredible in terms of its environmental um credentials, and then over at Beacon you've got the Eco Committee and all the amazing stuff they're doing, and it it does seem to be um one of those things that's definitely part of the whole kind of wellspring ethos in our schools, isn't it? Which is which is really lovely, it's a really positive.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

I think it's fantastic, and I've been over to Scundhought, I was really lucky to get a visit, and it is, it's really amazing what what what it's going to be. Uh fantastic, and you know, and I think we want that. I've certainly got that vision for all our schools. You know, I think they should all be and recognise that that's challenging from the perspective of you know some of the buildings, but also from uh finding the money perspective, but actually that shouldn't stop us having the ambition and doing what we absolutely can at any point in time to achieve what we want to from a sustainability perspective.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

And there are there are loads of things that we can we can do, um small things that that aren't totally um budget breaking, aren't they? So um, yeah, yeah, keep cracking on with that. Now I want to move on to um something a bit more fun, um a bit more lighthearted, and it's what we do with all I guess it's a quick fire round to find out a little bit about your own school days and see what you thought about your own school days. So, did you prefer primary or secondary school?

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Primary.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Primary, where was that?

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Um I went to a really small primary, it was actually a Catholic school, so it there were only um 15 children in each year. Uh, and it and it was such a lovely stage of uh education. I was actually quite a shy child, uh, and and the teachers had the time to really engage. I was I was shy but quite bright, and and my everyone has their favourite teacher, don't they? That they remember. And and mine was at primary school, Mrs. Clark, and she was truly wonderful. Um so I loved it there.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Excellent. English or maths?

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Mmm. That's an interesting one. I should say maths because my professional career has all been built on maths, but actually, I love to read an English. English is a real joy for me, so I'm sorry, I'm on the fence.

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Okay, it's a draw for that one. Um sports day or school play?

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Definitely school play.

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Uh history or geography?

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Um geography.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Why is that? Field trips, get out and about.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

Yeah, and and uh it's interesting because I actually did history at A level. Um but geography is a thing that sort of really um I'm into now and in its widest sense. Um we go walking quite a lot, myself and my family, my husband and daughter. Um I'm really interested, I've I've travelled, I've had the benefit of being able to travel, um probably for the last 30 years, mainly in Europe, but we have been further afield because I keep finding lovely places in Italy and Greece mainly. But um I'm really interested by um the way from a geography point of view, by the way that you know populations um work when you look at uh local areas. I'm I'm really into all of that stuff. So history academically, but I'm sort of switched off after the A-level. Geography is something that I think I've I've built a real love for.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, people think geography and think, oh, Oxbow Lakes and all that stuff, but it's so much more. Um understanding kind of yeah, like you say, people and demographics and all that stuff. Um last minute cramming or well planned revision.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Last minute cramming every time, even for today.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Need a bit of pressure, yeah. Um after school clubs, yes or no?

SPEAKER_02 23:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

What kind of stuff would you have been up for when you were at school?

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Um I think yeah, I'm thinking about it more of more from a parental perspective. But yeah, we'll look them as parents, don't we? All the other school clubs. Um, yeah, I think certainly again, I was quite studious at school. Um, so things like um, you know, a book club, which probably sounds really boring to most school children, but I would have loved that. Um, probably a sort of walk-in club and and sort of nature club, which actually I did do when I was at primary school. Um so my lovely teacher that I talked about earlier, she let me create a sort of nature area in the classroom. So yeah, um so I would have been up for that as well. I don't even know what what um after-school clubs do these days.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Oh, all sorts of things, everything from Lego and coding to baking and cooking and every sport that's going.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Yeah, yeah, I do cook actually, I cook quite a lot, and I learned really young. So I if that would have been available at school when I was at school, I would definitely have taken that up.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Yeah, I think we should encourage all children to do baking because bringing it home is is is brilliant. Yeah, it's one of my favourite things when my have got I've got baking, cooking is like, yes, what's what have we got tonight then?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Um yeah, and we didn't really do it at primary school, but certainly at secondary school, I did do it. In fact, I I won a cookery competition when I was 13. Um, but I it never made it home, my cookery. It was all eaten by us or all on the school bus.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

So you you won a cookery competition?

SPEAKER_02 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I think bake off is the obvious next step, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

I'm not sure about that. I'm not I'm not uh my presentation is leaves a bit to be desired. Maybe I need to do an after-school course to help me polish it up.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Maybe, maybe you can find one on your on your trek around the schools. Um and finally, my last question, which I ask everybody that comes on, if you could change one thing that you think would improve the education system in the in the UK, um, don't worry about practicalities on money. You can be as as wacky or as you know ambitious as you like. What do you think would make that difference?

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Actually, continuing on a theme, I think I would like all children and young people to learn um cooking and and um skills to help to equip them as they move forward into adulthood. So budgeting and there's life skills. Life skills.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

I'm sure many do. Yeah, but actually I think it should start from being really young and you know, just from a personal point of view, I learned sort of baking and cooking really, really young, and I've had a passion for it all my life. Uh, you know, I love it. It's my go-to place as well as the garden. Um, if I'm you know, need to think something through or a bit stressed, then I'll bake a cake and then plant a few bulbs and I feel great. Yeah. Um, and you know, and I think learning that kind of skill really young is is really good, really positive.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Yeah, definitely, definitely um good to have those life skills from the off so that you can um navigate all kinds of challenges, can't you? A bit more easily. Um, that's been so lovely. Thank you so much for coming in and talking to us today. Um, wish you the best of luck with um your tenure as chair of the board um and your your magical mystery tour of um of the north of England visiting all our schools. Um, enjoy that. Um, next time I'll be joined by Wellsprings Chief Financial Officer Mark Wood, who will be explaining how schools can tackle the budget constraints and financial challenges facing them. Hope you can join us then.