Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
MEETINGS BLOODY MEETINGS - Have more efficient and attend fewer meetings (# 1-35)
Episode 35 - Meetings Bloody Meetings!
The majority of people tell us they spend way too much time in meetings and/or attend too many meetings. Very few have told us the opposite. So there is definitely room for leaders to help change this and only call meetings when really needed, for the amount of time really needed with the attendees really needed.
Neil and I hope the tips we cover in this episode help you change that dynamic if it exists in your business to make you and your team more effective and efficient.
Hey guys, welcome back to the Q today. Great to have you back here with some more learning and some insight into how to be effective, more effective, more effective. How do you like the title of one of a difficult episode today? Meetings, bloody meetings. Most people that we speak to tell us that they attend too many meetings. They spend too much time in meetings. We've got very few people that tell us to come to. So how do you make sure you only attend those that you really need to? How do you make sure you only call those that you really need to? As the leader, you're organizing a lot of these meetings. And how do you only invite to those meetings the people that really need to be there for the time that they need to be there at those meetings? Look, meetings are important for your business. We don't do them just for the sake of it. They have to fit into it and executing your strategy. They form part of your communication strategy and process. But they mustn't take over and they mustn't do damage. So hopefully, then you can see how you can make better use of meetings and maybe get away from saying meetings, bloody meetings. Enjoy.
SPEAKER_04:Loving it. And busy because of all these bloody meetings. Which is on episode 35 today, we thought we'd talk about meetings, bloody meetings.
SPEAKER_05:Love meetings, love meetings, getting people in the room, drinking coffee, bouncing things around, leaving the room and wondering what the hell happened.
SPEAKER_04:And what's amazing is every meeting is effective to a factor of 60 minutes, whether it's a one-hour meeting, a two-hour meeting. Every minute is is always, you know, 59 minutes and it couldn't work. 58 minutes and it wouldn't work, but it has to be 60 minutes.
SPEAKER_05:And it has to start on the hour or the half hour.
SPEAKER_04:It has to start on the hour as well, exactly. Yeah. Um, so that otherwise it wouldn't fit in your calendar space, would it? You know, you it would just mess up the calendar if it was more than uh less than 60 minutes.
SPEAKER_05:I remember once I scheduled a meeting for something like I think it was said it was something like 1147.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And everybody was there on time. And they said, Why 1147? And I said, Well, we're starting on time. If it's 11:45, people are kind of 40, but people are kind of 50. So, anyway, look, it's it's a it's an interesting topic. It could be a boring operational topic, or it could be how can a leader be more effective and how can their team be more effective?
SPEAKER_04:So, and meeting kills productivity, meeting kills the effectiveness of uh of leaders. You know, I with with a number of people I coach and people I've worked with and businesses I work in, the biggest complaint I get is I don't have time to do any work because I'm always in meetings. You know, I'm doing one meeting and the next meeting, and the only time I can actually take any actions from those meetings is in the evening after work or in the morning before work. And so it kills productivity, it kills morale. Uh, and and yeah, so it basically it's not good for anyone to have ineffective uh meetings.
SPEAKER_05:But that's a that's an interesting topic you just raised there before we go into the content, right? About people complaining of being at meetings. So don't you have a decision as to whether you attend a meeting or not? And and we need to think about that, guys, because sometimes we end up going to a meeting because we've been asked to, and we think we have to be there. You have to decide if you're gonna add value. Because if you're not gonna add value, why are you there? Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.
SPEAKER_04:If if I'm invited to meet, I've got to attend, surely. Otherwise, I'm I mean, I've I've got my ego to look after, I've got to make sure I'm there and I'm seen to be there.
SPEAKER_05:Well, there's a bit of that, there's a bit of FOMO, isn't there? There's a bit of fear of missing out because you don't know what happened in that meeting. Yeah, but it's a really serious topic, guys. If it's not benefiting you personally, and if you think you haven't benefited the meeting, who's won? What was the point? But if your boss has asked you to be there, I think that's a conversation with your boss that says, I come to this meeting every week, I don't feel I'm adding any value. So someone's got it wrong. Am I in the wrong meeting or am I not stepping up?
SPEAKER_04:Maybe you ain't stepping up, or if you're organizing meetings and you're inviting people, why are you inviting the people that you're inviting? Yeah, it's interesting that that fear of missing out, actually, because I was coaching someone recently whose diary was chaotic. And I said, Why are you attending these meetings that are not specifically in your area? And and actually, I said I said, What is it you it was a great question Yana gave me to ask? It was um, what do you value that you would lose if you didn't attend? So, what would you value that you that you would lose? And he said, actually, I attend because I want to be seen to be there, to be interested in it, but I actually I don't contribute at all because it's not in my area of the business, and uh and I thought that's really interesting. So it was it wasn't it was about fear of not being recognized and noticed. Um so I think that's an interesting point to start with, right? Is when we talk about meetings, bloody meetings, do you actually have to be at the meeting that you want to make more effective and more efficient?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, and is there a different way for you to have got an update from that meeting? Because one of the things we'll talk about is about documenting meetings and keeping good record, right? Well, maybe you could just read that, and maybe that's enough, right? So let's think about that as we go forward here. But it is a difficult topic. Neil and I talked about it beforehand. It's it's one that we could end up being negative and drainhole gazing and have a whinge about, and it's operational. And but no, I think one of the things we need to think about is why do you have meetings? Maybe we should start there. Why? What is the purpose of a meeting?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's a good question. So, why do we have meetings? I guess. So, if you think about customer meetings, you have customer meetings because you want to progress a deal, or you want to engage with someone you've not, so you want to sell someone, or you want to help them with their project or delivery or whatever it might be. So, I guess that's one form of meeting. And actually, when you think about those meetings, you've got to make sure you're adding value in those sessions, not just soaking up time.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:What other reasons would there be for meetings?
SPEAKER_05:Um, reaching agreement.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:You need to come together to reach agreement on something. Right. Um, and so you could have emails flying backwards and forwards, you could have all, but let's sit down together, let's talk it through, and let's reach an agreement. So it could be making a decision, reaching an agreement meeting.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it could be it could be uh developing a new idea. So you get together because you want to share some business ideas or you want to share best practice so that everybody in the session is is learning from that, or they're developing a new strategy for moving forward. That might be another reason.
SPEAKER_05:But here's a key one now, Neil, because if we go back over the years, one of a key one of the key reasons for having a meeting would have been information sharing. There are now loads of ways to do that. There's now loads of ways to do that. So, do you need to have that meeting to share information? Right. So, one of the questions Neil's always asked whenever we've talked about or when we get together, when we sat down in a room, one of the first things Neil says is, What is the outcome we want from this time together? Now, not what is the agenda, not what are the things we're going to talk about, what is the outcome? So I think that's a good point for you to pick up, Neil, because that's something I know that you're always on.
SPEAKER_04:So it comes from a Tony Robbins uh acronym, actually. And he talks about effective meetings and effectively managing your diary, actually, is outcome, purpose, action. And actually, if you take those three words and when you go into a meeting or before you set it up, the outcome of the meeting is we want to achieve this. Purpose, why is that important? So, because you can achieve an outcome, but actually it's not that important to the business, or it's not that important to the individuals in the business. So the purpose, and then the A is what you're there to discuss in the meeting, because the outcome and the purpose you can determine beforehand what actions do we need to take to achieve that outcome for that reason, right? So that's where it comes. And it is a great question to keep asking when you're in a discussion, because meetings get heated with discussions, debates, go off on tangents, come back and go, uh, is this helping us get closer to our outcome?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, really good point. Because how much time gets wasted in meetings because you've you've unintentionally gone off piste, yeah. Um, and you've gone down rabbit holes. So am I mixing my whatever's there? But but think about that, guys, right? If it starts, if it doesn't feel like it's getting anywhere off, it's getting keep asking that question. What was our what did we say our outcome was? And is this serving our purpose?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. And and it's interesting actually, because that then links to something like how long you're gonna have a meeting for as well. And and that's really important. You said at the beginning, you know, you set a meeting up at 11:47 and everyone turned up. Well, actually, I mean, years ago, uh we hired a sales guru called Richard Denny, who um he was a really interesting guy. I don't know if you remember it, with a ponytail, and he was like this expert sales guru, charged a fortune for his services. But one of the things he taught us from a sales perspective was never set a meeting up on the hour on the half hour. Set it up at 10 past, quarter past, 5-2, because it does two things. Firstly, it uh it gives someone time to prepare from the next meeting. So get go to the loo, go and get a coffee. They're not rushing, so you've they've had some time to relax before the meeting, and they also also interest perks people's interest, like the 1147. Yeah, and they and and they and they did a test on it. More people accept the meeting if it's uh 10 past than they will if if it's at the hour, yeah. Um, but then the time you have the meeting is really important as well. So if you have a 60-minute slot, because that's what Outlook or Google Canada shoves in there, actually that's not ideal either. Some whatever time you put in, Parkinson's law will say whatever time you've got, you'll use it. And that whether it's 40 minutes, my recommendation would be 40, 45 minutes max. Because then that allows you five minutes or 10 minutes to wrap up and do the actions from the meeting.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know. What's your best practice been around that?
SPEAKER_05:Uh look, I I think I don't think there's a there's a problem with having meetings longer than that, but if you've got topics within that meeting, then break up the meeting. There's no reason why you can't take you, you're gonna cover this topic for the next 50 minutes, yeah. Then take a break, right? Stop that topic, don't let it run into the next 15 minutes, which is for the different topic. Shut it off. It's finished, it's done. Because, as you said, Neil, you will keep going on it, and someone will have just one more point to make, and you and it's you'll be there forever, right? You can't do that.
SPEAKER_04:Um, that's an interesting point as well, actually, because one of the things that I get frustrated about in meetings is storytelling. You know, there's always an anecdote or a story about a particular topic or something, and it ends up taking a long time to do, which is funny because we we teach storytelling as well, don't we?
SPEAKER_05:So that's quite interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Stor storytelling in its own right to make a point is fine. Yeah, but uh swinging the lantern, I think, is the other way of oh, is it yeah? Yeah, you swing the lantern. Oh, well, I think that's the expression.
SPEAKER_05:Um let's so let's move on. We've got a lot to cover here. Let's move on, let's talk about audience, let's talk about participants in the meeting. In fact, I just said it there. Are you in the audience? Are you a participant, right? If you're in the audience, why are you in a meeting? So I think a really important thing when you're setting up meetings, guys, as leaders, who do you need in that meeting and why? What purpose will it perform by having that person there? Um, so that's one thing. Secondly, do they have to be there for the whole meeting? It may be they've got a part to play. They might be a subject matter expert. Do they have to sit in the one and a half hour, 90-minute meeting for the piece that you want to talk to them about for 20 minutes? So think about that. And the third, and the last third part I make on participants is make if they needed to have prepared something, give them advanced notice and make sure they come prepared. You don't walk into a room blank. I mean, I can't imagine going to a meeting blank without having to at least understand what that meeting's going to be about and should I have done any preparation or been ready.
SPEAKER_04:That's interesting, really interesting point about preparation, right? So, one of the things you learn when you're self-employed is when you're being paid to be somewhere, you better turn up prepared. And uh, and whereas when you're an employee, it kind of I'll just roll in with my coffee and my tie and but it does it does focus the mind a bit. And one of the things I've learned, and and I would uh definitely advise people to do is when you know you've got a meeting coming up that you've got to prepare for, put some time in the calendar where you're gonna prepare for it. And it's not negotiable time, it's not time that you're gonna well, I'll I'll do it if I can or I'll shift it if I don't have any calls or but use the time to prepare so that when you go to the meeting, you are ready to engage on the action part of the outcome purpose action.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. So so look, look, there's some things around participation there, guys, but then come back to what Neil and I first started this conversation on. If you're invited to a meeting, be clear on why you're expected to be there and what you think you're going to bring to that meeting. And if you can't see the value you're gonna bring, I don't see any harm in raising that topic. I would raise it outside the meeting. I'm not sure I'd sit there in the meeting as it opens and goes, I don't know why I'm here. But there's no reason why you shouldn't raise raise that with the person up front that says, because they might have a different reason for you being there that you don't realize, right? You might not know that.
SPEAKER_04:And what's interesting, so Elon Musk uh has three rules for meetings. He says, No large meetings, if you're not adding value to the meeting, leave. And no frequent meetings. So the third one we can talk about, the first two, I definitely agree with. So when he says no large meetings, and this is one of the danger of video conferencing or conference calls, is it's easy to invite 30 people. Yeah, if you've got to book a meeting room in an office, and most meeting rooms of eight, ten people are big, and you want 30 people in there, you're gonna struggle. Yeah, so and especially if they're coming from all over the world as well. Yeah, so there is a tendency to be lazy and just invite everyone, which is why it's important to make sure that you are going to add value to that. So because I've been on so many calls where two or three people are actually taking part and everybody else is just doing their email. And it's yeah, what is the point in being in that session when you could be doing something much more effective? Um, so but I like the idea of if you're not adding value, then just say, sorry, not adding value, I'll leave.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. And and if anyone's got an objection to that because they think there is something you're needed for, they can tell you. Whilst we're talking about participation, you know, in some of the research I did, one of the terms they use, it's a bit aggressive, but one of the terms they use was take no hostages. But that's a really important point. If you're running the meeting and somebody is hogging the floor, or is storytelling, as Neil put it earlier, or is not adding value in the way you need to, you're the facilitator of that meeting. It's your role to stop and say, let's let's move on. Look, a style of mine has always been can I just check something? Is this working for everyone in the room? Is what this person has to say, do we see value in this as a team? And if there isn't that that consensus to that point, or at least a majority view, then move on. It might offend somebody, but if you don't do it, you're offending the rest of the people.
SPEAKER_04:That's a really good point. And actually, I read somewhere that good practice is every 10 minutes check in with everyone in the meeting to make sure that this is helping them, this is moving forward, that it's the outcome is is still in sight. So and because you know, as we know from Myers Briggs, everyone adds value in different ways to meetings. Yeah, so there might be someone sitting there quietly who their one sentence of input could change the direction of the meeting. But you if you don't ask them, you might not get it.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah. No, it's a really good point, actually, Neil, right? Don't believe everybody's got the same level of confidence and and are extrovert enough to come out. Uh, they might be sitting there waiting to be invited, by the way. And as you're saying, once you invite them, they might be off. Great.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05:What do you think is the next key point, Neil, that you might want to cover?
SPEAKER_04:Around um, so I think so. We covered, so I looked at some what are some of the key things. So only hold meetings when they're necessary. So make sure it's really necessary. And this the one question around is it necessary or isn't it necessary would be these frequent meetings. So when Elon Musk says no frequent meetings, it's like, you know, don't have the weekly Monday morning managers meeting or leadership meeting or whatever, or the sales meeting, or don't have the regular, I don't know, whatever the regular check-in is each week that you do. I'm kind of in two minds around that. I can see the point because sometimes those can just be it's in the calendar, I'm just going to turn up for it. And we always do it that way. But sometimes I think you know, those are really valuable to do a level set and it's an opportunity for everybody to know what's going on as well.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I agree with you. I think I think it's really clear. I it almost comes back to this purpose thing, guys, right? And this of why are you together? So let's take the Monday morning thing. But I think it's valuable to gather every Monday morning. Oh gosh, here we go. 9:15 every Monday morning. But if what that does is gets everybody energized, lined up and ready to go for the week, that's a great purpose. That's a fantastic purpose, right? Maybe some people need that to start their week, right? I'm not saying they should have to, but if that is what they need and it's good for the team. And again, if you know, we talked before about agile methodologies. In agile methodologies, they say always checkpoint. They do the daily stand-up, right? If you're running a project, you do a daily stand-up. Why? Because you share what you've got to get done in the forthcoming period and what you need from everybody else in the room. Neil might not know that I'm waiting for something key from him. Now, maybe I should be telling him on Slack or Messenger or pick up the phone or send him an email or whatever. But a gathering like this sometimes brings things out. So for me, I wouldn't say don't have those meetings, but be clear why you are. And as soon as you find they're not adding value, stop them. By the way, if you stop them and people are missing something, they'll probably tell you.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think that's I think that's true. And you mentioned the stand is stand-up meetings. That's an interesting technique as well, is you know, don't allow people to sit down. You know, you have a 20-minute stand-up meeting is a really effective way of focusing people's mind.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:It's a technique I use in workshops, actually. If if there's a point that's that that's there's a lot of debate going on and they're not getting to a decision, is I just make everyone stand up, take their chairs away, and until they make a decision, they're not allowed to sit down. And it does accelerate the thought process.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I think that's important. What about rules around meetings? What kind of rules would you have if you were chairing a meeting?
SPEAKER_05:There's one which is my pet hate, which is technology. Um now I'd love to say ban technology, but the technology is there for people to be using, right? I mean, how many times have we gone, hey, close your laptop? And actually goes, Yeah, I'm taking notes. Oh, sorry, you're the one taking the notes. So that banning technology sounds a bit extreme, but but be really clear to someone. The what the phrase I've always used is if you're in the room physically, then be in the room mentally. Right? If you're in the room physically for this meeting, pay attention. If you're looking at your phone because you're worried about a message coming in or you're reading what you're gonna have to buy on the way home, don't do it, right? But you've all got to be self-governed here. Come on, we're not we're not children, right? You've got to self-gov self-govern yourself and say, if I'm in this meeting, I need to pay attention and don't let technology distract me.
SPEAKER_04:I think, yeah, I think uh I get incredibly frustrated when people turn up in a meeting room and the first thing they do is it's put their laptop on the table and open it up. Yeah, and it's actually a psychological barrier. It's a you know, this is my space, and I'm just setting out my space. It goes back to when we were apes and we needed to space in the jungle that was ours, and that's why it is, you know. And I always say this to people when you're open, okay, so you've managed to, you know, you've you've pissed on your space now. We know where your space is. Now close your laptop and put it away. And it's like, oh, I'm exposed now, I haven't got this laptop in front of me. But also phones as well, you've got to because it's it comes back to the um, you know, when we talk about focus and not multitasking, it is impossible to multitask. You can only do one thing and do one thing well at a time. Because even if you think you're multitasking, you're not, you're actually doing individual tasks multiple times. Yeah, so it a meeting can be much, much shorter if everybody in the room is focused on it, there's a clear agenda, clear outcome, clear purpose, and uh yeah, and you haven't got all those distractions.
SPEAKER_05:Get it done and move on, right?
SPEAKER_04:Get it done and move on, exactly.
SPEAKER_05:So the other thing is I think look, you I think you've got to have some structure in a meeting, but you don't want it to be too restrictive. The important thing I'd say about structure, my own point of view, is up front in the meeting, tell people what you expect is gonna happen for the period of the meeting. So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about it a little bit. We want to get to a decision, we'll work that through, we'll make sure we're all on plan and then we'll move off. So everybody knows what's gonna happen. How many times have you gone into a meeting and you're wondering where this is going, right? And people won't ask. People won't ask. Um, and I think we need to outline what is the structure for the meeting so people understand what what we're trying to do and how it's gonna operate. What do you think?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I think it's it's so key. And um it's interesting. What was going through my head then was so does this all apply to online meetings too? Because you know, we're all doing online meetings at the moment, we're all in Zoom meetings. So, are there any different rules or structures we should apply? So be clear on the outcome, be clear on the purpose, have an agenda, set the time so it's not 60 minutes, it's 45 minutes. Um is there anything different when it comes to doing conference video conferencing meetings? Do you think?
SPEAKER_05:Well, I think all those rules are are still as as applicable there as they are elsewhere. But I know a couple of meetings you and I have been on, right? And we've had people with their kids in the background and things are going on, but we uh what I've openly said, and there haven't been like their major, we're not making a major decision about the future of this corporation, right? We were having meetings that were looking at, you know, how are we getting or how's your training going? And so, and we've actually said to people, look, if if someone comes in and disturbs you in that, just carry on. Yeah, don't worry about it, right? Because actually, you could actually derail the whole meeting by focusing on it. Oh, sorry, my son's come in, blah. So, you know, again, agree the ground rules at the start. Agree the ground rules at the start. Listen, there's nothing look, if people are working from home in a pandemic world, then we need to work to that, right? You can't expect them to be different. And and and you know, today we're in that pandemic world. I mean, maybe we'll have a different conversation in a few months' time.
SPEAKER_04:But I think there are I agree with you on the on the family stuff, right? You have to accept that and and and the distractions that happen because you're at home. But I think there's another element too, which is focus. When you're in a meeting, switch your email off, switch your other screens off, switch your WhatsApp off, switch your phone off, concentrate on the discussion you're having. If you if you're um if you're finding your doing your email and stuff, then you're not adding value to the meeting. Go back to point one, which is if you're not adding value, leave the meeting. So I think that's a really it's and the other thing about is I'm a big fan and very I don't like it when people's cameras are off. And the reason is because you can't you can't really have a great conversation and engage in in making something really specific unless you can see them. Yeah, yeah. Because they could be doing anything in the background, and so I think you can and and that way this problem that people have where they're going from one Zoom meeting or Teams meeting to another one to another one to another one would be fixed. Yeah, um, so I think that's the online meetings. One thing I wanted to say, actually, there was a really good friend of mine, very, very successful lady in business, and uh she was famous for having five-minute stand-up meetings. So if you wanted to book a meeting with her, you were given a five-minute slot. And you had to turn up very, very well prepared, very clear on what the meeting, what you want out of the meeting and why you're meeting with her. So, do you want a decision? Is this information? And you had to stand up. Both both of you stood up to do the meeting, and you know, if it got you know, got into a deep conversation, then there was an opportunity to go past the five minutes. But five minutes was the limit of if if you you know, if this isn't going anywhere after five minutes, we're gonna stop the meeting. I was really pounded. She's one of the most effective, productive people I know.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Um, I've never tried it. I you know, I used to have a 25-minute rule when I used to to run uh regular reviews with sales leaders and stuff, that was like 25 minutes and then five minutes wrap up, and that was kind of it, and that worked. Yeah, yeah. But uh, so you can, you know, Parkinson's law says when you really want something to happen, you will make it happen in the time available.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So shall we kind of wrap up what we've talked about there?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, so could yeah, I think I think one final point that I want to make around this, guys, is around documenting meetings and agreeing follow-up. Yeah, so we can be terrible at documenting the meeting. I had a conversation with somebody not so long ago about a major deal that they've gotten with a customer, and there seems to be a misunderstanding between what the customer thought and what they thought. And I said, Was it documented? And he said, No, what, guys, you've got to document the meeting because it's a it gives you reinforcement of what you agreed. And by the way, always revisit what you've documented. I'm not saying now relive the whole meeting again, but go back and go just to confirm this action, we agreed this because somebody might go, ah, okay, I didn't think that's what we agreed, but at least you get that clear then, and not when you come back to the same meeting in two weeks' time, and they haven't done what you thought they were going to do because they didn't realize that's what was expected of them.
SPEAKER_04:So that's a really good point, yeah. Summarize the actions before you leave, yeah, and then make sure they're documented, they're sent out to everyone in the meeting, and you know, and maybe use one of the online tools like Monday.com or some of the other tools where you can put actions for meeters in there. Um, but make sure if you've got an action, you do it before the next meeting. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time at the next meeting.
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely, absolutely. So the follow-up is absolutely key, guys, because the meeting probably isn't the work. The meeting is the place at which you've come to, as Neil said earlier, right? To agree the actions, right? Some people seem to think that meetings is the work. I go to meetings and that's my work. Well, what happens in between? Yeah, and what happens in between is you will be guided by the firefighting that's coming at you from other places, and you have to go, no, I agreed something in a meeting that I have to get delivered by the next time. That becomes part of my workload. Now, we're not here to kind of schedule everybody's work for them, but you need to think about what was the purpose of the meeting. It agreed some actions, I've got to get that action done, and there will be follow up for that. Yeah, so you know, structure is important, guys, but it shouldn't be restricted.
SPEAKER_04:To you, it's a really good point because there isn't a career I've seen anyway that is I'm a professional meeting guerre and I've got a black belt in meeting going. I think some leaders would say they are black belts in it because that's what they do, but you have a choice. I mean, that's you know, I guess as we summarise this, you have a choice what goes on in your calendar, and don't anyone tell me you haven't, because I've worked in big corporations like Albert has, and we've got demands coming in us from all sides. But 80% of what you put in your calendar, you put in your calendar, and the other 20% you can challenge or you can ask, do I really need to be there? So that's definitely point one. Then when you are doing it, running it, being part of it, make sure you're clear on why you're there, the outcome and the purpose. Yeah, and then as we've talked about, you know, there's there's techniques and stuff for making the meetings more effective and efficient and shorter and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_05:And don't forget something, guys. As a leader, you are setting an example. So the way you conduct your meetings and the way you run is what you're telling your team is acceptable. So if you're not prepared and if you're shambolic in the way in which you conduct meetings, how can you expect your team to be careful? So think about that, right? Look, it's not the most exciting of topics, but it's very important because of where we spend our time. And it's very important because what you can get out of a meeting as a tangible exercise, right? So I hope it's added some value for people here, guys.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, 100%. I hopefully it's added value because you know what one of the biggest things I get asked as a coach is how can I be more efficient with my time? Well, here's here's a ton of clues in this uh podcast right here. And and hopefully that's useful for every leader that's out there and listening to this. So Albert, I'll leave you to wrap up.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, no, guys, thanks very much. Thanks for your attention. Neil and I are doing a lot of work developing what we're doing on leadership detectives. We want to be able to take that to better places for you in 2021 as we go through. But for now, please give us your comments, please be uh feed that back whether you're on podcast or whether on you're on YouTube. Uh, please subscribe if you haven't because you're going to get the reminders of the upcoming. So please go ahead and do that. But give us feed and give us any suggestions you've got. Last one before, we did uh a topic that somebody had requested. If you've got any hot topics you'd like us to go into, please let us know. Um, until then, thanks for your time, guys. Thanks for being here. Yeah, good luck with what's going on and uh catch up with you soon. Cheers, mate. Good to see you. Take care. Take care.
unknown:Bye.
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