Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
LEADERS: The power of coaching and mentoring (# 1-37)
Episode 37 - Mentoring and Coaching
Two extremely valuable processes / techniques for your employees and for you! In the spirit of Leadership Detectives, we talk about it here for current leaders to add value for their own employees but also for you as a key asset in your company to potentially mentor and coach any other employees who may benefit.
Please do also consider whether you might benefit from a coaching session with Neil (he's good!) or me. If so, please visit our website leadershipdetectives.com and leave us a message.
To make sure millions of people are getting paid on time and in compliance, ADP is staying on top of each new piece of legislation. So when it comes down to it, ADP isn't just a payroll in nature of a company. We're the company that helps you navigate complexity. Learn more at ADP.com.
SPEAKER_02:Hey guys, welcome back to the Leadership Detective. Good to talk to you again here today. I hope you're well as we all sit here at the end of Feb, beginning of March, and certainly in the UK, great news on how we'll be released from lockdown and we can all get back to whatever the new normal is. So let's hope things are gonna go well for us as we go forward. Today, what Neil and I want to talk to you about is some personal and career development processes or techniques, both for your employees and for you. We want to talk to you about mentorship and about coaching. Mentorship is a senior-junior relationship where it's about the mentees' growth, their learning, their career development, and it's normally with a mentor who's an experienced, proven expert. So that's one of the things we're gonna go through. The other one is about coaching. And coaching is a process that aims to improve your performance, your focus, and it's here in the current. A coach is a facilitator. They're not expected to be the master of the craft, but they're to help you to be able to grow and develop and do better at what you're doing today. The target beneficiary for both of these is actually the subject individual. But the huge success of this is based on the skills and the experience of both the mentor or the coach, as well as the motivation and the focus of the person who's actually benefiting from the process. So Nil and I have crammed some of our views into the next 30 minutes. We hope it adds value for you. We hope you enjoy, and all the best with your careers and your personal development going forward and that and your teams.
SPEAKER_03:So welcome everyone to another episode of the Leadership Detectives, episode 37, and we're delighted to be back with you helping uncover some of the secrets and clues of great leadership. And good morning, Albert. How are you?
SPEAKER_02:I'm good, I'm not bad at all. Good to see you here. So we're midweek at the moment, but it feels like it's a Friday meal because there's been so much going on, right? It's pretty hectic time.
SPEAKER_03:It's been absolutely crazy this week. I think the announcement on Monday night where we're learning about how we're going to get out of lockdown and stuff has just brought energy into everybody I'm talking to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's interesting. I think there's been a lot of situations where people might have been holding back, waiting for the starter's gun. And even though he hasn't fired the gun, they believe that he has. Because just knowing that the gun's about to be fired and hearing what's coming means people have just kicked into back, which is great because we want people thinking ahead and planning, right? Yeah, that's fine.
SPEAKER_03:No, exactly, exactly. And and I want to compliment you on your uniform today. We we seem to have the first time ever got shirts that match. Yeah, I mean, we've got Tommy Hilfig. Other brands are available, which uh my whole family is crazy on Tommy Hilfigure stuff, and they bought me a shirt to wear.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but you told me you were taking the tag off of yours. I didn't take the tag off of mine, it came from Turkey Market, so it's not quite the same. Oh, I see. Okay, all right, yeah, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Grikey, I remember when we were teenagers and you used to go to Wembley uh market buying uh you know, knocks off branded clothing.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, we just revealed one of the differences between you and me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so look, the topic today, really, really topic, great topic close to my heart and your heart, I know, because we've um we've leveraged this a lot over the years. So we're going to talk today about the importance of leaders having mentors andor coaches. Yeah. So let's start off. When we talk about mentors and coaches, what's the difference? You know, what in your view, what's the difference between a mentor and a coach?
SPEAKER_02:Mentorship for me would be and and I've used it a lot over the years, right? And when you work in a major corporate, you get opportunity for that. So um mentorship for me was about an experienced, probably senior person, uh, but an experienced senior person sharing with you their um experience, their understanding, their learning, and trying to apply that to something you've taken to them as a challenge. Typically, I think mentorship does get directed towards somebody trying to progress their career, right? You know, whether you're trying to understand, but but it could also be that you've just taken over the business and you're there going, Wow, how how do I go with this? So it's just sharing experience. That's how I would.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so mentors mentorship is more kind of technical. So the person you're talking to has got experience in there, it could be it could be a technician, actually mentoring an apprentice.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So as a really good coach, give us your thoughts on coaching.
SPEAKER_03:So, yeah, the difference. So the the with coaching, coaching's more about helping the person uncover a way forward to a situation they've got. That might be a business situation, it might be a personal situation, and it's using coaching models and techniques to help them do that. And the you know, my take on the so mentoring, there's quite a lot of tell. So you're helping with questions to understand the problem, but then there's tell. Coaching is a lot more questioning and the coach E doing a lot of the work to understand.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um and what what I try and do personally when I'm coaching is I I mentor with a coaching style. So I try and you try and bring the two together.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Um, but let's just talk about what's your experience of being mentored? Where did it work really well for you? And why would you recommend someone searches for a mentor?
SPEAKER_02:Uh, two areas where it's worked well, and I think I just touched on them there, guys. One was about running the business. So I'd taken over a business. Um, I had responsibility for over a thousand people in total with a leadership team. And there you are, you didn't have it on the Friday, you do have it on the Monday, and you kind of go, Oh wow, where do I start with this? So being able to talk to somebody about how would you approach this, right? What do I do to, you know, first of all, you go in and find your own way, and then you've got all this mess in front of you, and you're trying to work out what you're going to do. So, somebody to be able to describe how they did it. By the way, the fact they did it that way doesn't mean that's the only way, but it shows you first of all, it gives you some confidence that there is a way forward, and you hear from somebody about how they approached it. So that was good when I first took over the business. And by the way, I was it wasn't a disciplined mentoring at that point in time, it was taking advice from two senior people, and I then picked up a formal mentoring relationship going forward after that.
SPEAKER_03:So, were they the the mentors in your line of business then?
SPEAKER_02:They were in my line of business. Um, they had they could benefit from the fact that I got things right, they could be victims of me getting it wrong, so they had a vested interest. Okay, I don't think that's what their interest was. I think their interest was much more about wanting to share their experience and knowledge.
SPEAKER_03:Because it, you know, if you look at mentoring programs, best practice is normally that your mentor is not in your line of business.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, true, very true. Because them having a vested interest isn't always best. Um, I mean, I was a mentor myself, by the way, to many people, from graduates right through to first line managers to second line managers, right? And that was the same thing. That was simply me sharing my experience. How did I deal with the thing that you just told me you need some help with, but you can decide whether there's a better way. So there was a big difference there between how you might have coached somebody in that and how you might have shared your experience of solving that same situation.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and what what benefits did you see, or do you think people see from having a formal mentor?
SPEAKER_02:Um a real benefit, by the way, provided you don't abuse it, is knowing you've got someone to lean on. Right? So you don't always have to call on it, but you know it's there. So you could try fixing this, but you would never be in that place that went, I'm alone here and I really don't know what I'm gonna do, to be able to drop an email out or or uh uh an instant message and saying, Look, can I just grab 10-15 minutes? That comfort blanket was good to have, even though you may never have called upon it, but it helped you. But it was good that you could go there. Imagine you had an urgent situation, you have to get a fix for this. At least you know there was somebody you could call upon.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think you know, my my my experience of um of encouraging people to find mentors because personally I wasn't great at using the formal mentoring program when I was in a large corporate, but when I when I work with people in corporates, and then we'll come back to small businesses or smaller businesses in a minute, yeah. But when you when I've been working with people in corporate, the the value that they see is they don't know what they don't know about managing their career, about how to handle some of the politics in the business. And so to have someone who's outside of your line of business that you can just go and talk to and try and learn from has been a I've seen that being incredibly valuable in helping people grow and overcome some of those frustrations and roadblocks that might be in the way.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, absolutely right. You just triggered my mind on something as well, Neil. The other thing is they're not in the woods with you. So they're able to stand back and see things a little bit different from the way you're seeing it because you're caught up in this thing, your brain's got all caught caught in it. They're able to kind of stand back and go, actually, let me just tell you how I would probably have handled that or I could handle that, especially when you come to a career conversation. A career conversation is a great one, right? How am I going to get my next promotion? Well, there's quite a lot to that in terms of delivering value, getting the right stakeholders in place, making sure that you're, you know, you're you're proving that you have got longevity and that you've got um um potential for the future and all of those good things, and they help you kind of think that through.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I think you know, mentoring is definitely something where you you want someone who has a good track record in delivering what you're trying to achieve, whether that's the managing their career in a certain way or managing a certain business in a certain way. And when you look at smaller businesses, so uh, you know, for instance, I know um, you know, I personally work with people as mentors to sales leaders, you know, so they bring an external person in to help their sales leaders or sales directors develop because there isn't anybody in the business they can talk to because they're the only sales director in the business.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And I know business owners who have external business mentors who help them through, you know, but it's processes like what's the best way to manage my HR, external HR when I don't have an HR team, or how how can I engage with an accountant or a tax person? Yeah, yeah, but they're business mentors to help uh business owners because business owners have got nowhere else to go.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it's a good point you make, Neil. It's it's probably underutilized, yeah. And it's probably not all the time, but it's probably not going to happen unless you ask for it. Brilliant. I mean, it might be there, but it's more likely that you say, Please can I have a mentor? or I've by the way, you might have already spotted an individual. You might say, Look, I'd really like to work with Neil. I've seen the way Neil's running his business, I've seen the way the people react to Neil as a leader, I'd like to learn something from that. You you could go and knock on someone's door and say, Do you mind being my mentor? You don't have to follow some HR process in your company, by the way. There might be a formal process, but there might not be. And by the way, there aren't too many leaders who care about people development who are gonna say, Go away, I haven't got time for you.
SPEAKER_03:Right? And well, that and that's the point I want to make, and I make this regularly when I'm coaching people to go and find mentors, is find someone who you'd really love to be your mentor within your business and go and ask them. Yeah, and I I will guarantee 100% of the time, they haven't said no. Yeah, because people love to help other people, they love to be asked because not enough people do it. Probably five percent of leaders actually go and ask, Can I be mentored? So uh being don't worry about asking people, and the same's true uh looking externally. If you if there's a business that leader that you admire and you would like to learn from, go and talk, ask them, go and say, Would you like to be I I was coaching um someone you and I both know well who who ran his own business uh up in the the northeast of England for many years before he sold it, and one of the coaching sessions I did with him was just that was he said, I'd really like to to get a mentor, a mentor who does who's growing a business similar to me. Well, who have you identified? Go and ask them. And he went and asked them, and guess what? They really wanted to help him, and it helped him get to a point where he sold his business.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the the the the the only one that governed about whether how many people I mentored was my assistant used to go mad. I'll give her a mention here, the lovely Colette Windle, right? She people used to walk out of my office and she goes, You've done it again, haven't you? You said yes, haven't you? I've said yes, but it's one hour once a quarter. Come on, that has got to be good, right?
SPEAKER_03:And that's a good point, right? You've got to be respectful of the time, manage the time, and uh don't overdo uh the relationship, yeah. So so mentoring, you know, if you're a leader within a business, or actually you don't it's not just leadership, anyone in the business, you should be looking to find a mentor, yeah. And and because it helps the mentor, meant the person who's mentoring you grow and it helps you grow, yeah. And whether that's inside the business or outside the business, go and find a mentor.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:So let's move on to coaching. So you know the difference between mentoring and coaching, we talked about in the beginning, um, and both you and I have have you have been coached and used coaches at some point in our career, and I've used the coach extensively over the last four years. Um, but what's what would you say is the positive value and experiences you've had of coaching?
SPEAKER_02:Um, probably the biggest thing would be reflection, right? Because if I remember the coaching sessions that I had when I had an executive coach in in uh in Big Blue, it was very much when I'd talk about situations, she would get me to look back on what happened and why did it happen that way and what was I now thinking. And unless somebody stops you, put everything else aside, asks you those questions, and makes you consider the answers before you say it, only then do you really dig deep to actually think what's happening. Um, one session I remember I had was about a conflict I'd had, believe it or not, with my boss's boss on a public call with many people on it, and I was throwing my toys around, right? This is what's gonna happen. And she let me talk for a while and she said, So, have I ever showed you the model? She said about parent and child, and who which and and I went, No. So she drew this model for me very calmly. She said, Now, where are you in here? Are you the child or you the parent? So I said, Well, I'm in charge of the business. So she said, So I said, she said, Well, can I offer that the way that I've heard you talk is maybe you're here and you're responding in this way, and then you start going, Well, yeah, okay. She goes, Well, what if we turned it this way and you behaved like that? How would that work for you? And then she got into this, and she probably did it all the way through, Neil. She probably just apart from joining the model, most of it was questions, most of it was why, what, how, what were you thinking, how are you feeling, and it and and so it brings out a lot. So it's really worked for me, but much more because it causes that reflection. Yeah, because you have to stop and think about what's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Well, and and the reflection comes from a great question being asked, yeah. And and that's what I'd found with coaching is when when you're asked a great question, it makes you stop in your tracks, it's like you've been hit by something, and it just opens up a door that you couldn't see was there. Yeah, and so what I've found with coaching, so so personally, I've used coaching a lot in the last few years, and and it it's enabled me to grow as a person to get rid of some of the limiting beliefs I might have, to see possibilities that I might not have seen if I hadn't had the coaching, yeah, and to help through some of the techniques to help me through some of the challenges as well. Yeah, and I find that when I'm coached, but you know, I'm I'm trained and qualified as a coach and an NLP coach. Um, there are models that you learn and techniques you learn that you can then apply to help people break through some of those things. So I guess coaching makes you a better person, makes you a better leader, and helps break through some of those personal internal challenges that you might not recognize you've got.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Listen, you and I know some really good coaches, right? You know, we've worked with them over the years, or they've become coaches since, and and so you know, we're we're in touch with those, and we can see where they've got some great successes and some really happy people on the back of what they do. Yeah, just something to think about here, guys. You will get into some deep questioning with a coach. There is no right or wrong answer, there's only your answer, right? And that's that's important you realize that when a coach puts questions to you, they don't have an answer that they're waiting for you to confirm, right? So don't worry about whether it's right or wrong, and don't worry about telling the truth, right? They're not gonna judge you either. A coach cannot judge you on what you have to say, that's your belief, that's your feeling. They might want to go a bit deeper to understand what what it is that makes you feel that way, but but you've got to be honest in a coaching session, right? Please don't think that a coaching session is rated and taken anywhere else. They should also be totally confidential, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They are 100%. And you know, so so some of the questions I get, well, yeah, I don't really need a coach at the moment, or um, I'm not sure when I'm gonna need a coach. Do I'll wait till I've got a problem before I need a coach. And and the bottom line is I learned I used to be like that, you know, I because it costs money, you know, and it costs quite a lot of money to have a good coach. So, and and you know, and your business might pay for it, which is great, but if you're paying for it as well, you you've got to look at it as an investment in you. You know, I've spent a load of money over the last uh four years on on a coach, but I just look at it as that has come back 10 times in in what I've got out of it personally, not just essentially financially, but personally making me a better person. So when's the when is the best time to have a coach? Now, yeah, any any you you you will benefit as a leader if you want to grow, if you want your team to grow, if you want to have a more fulfilled life, so you're enjoying life more or you're engaging more, coaching will coaches will help you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think I think there's another aspect of that as well, Neil, because you talk about what effect it's had on you and what you've gained, achieved, enjoyed. Um, but that's had downstream effect as well, right? There's other people that you've touched, whether they are in the family or whether they're your customers or whether they're your peers or colleagues. I can say I've benefited from your coaching, right? Whatever you've been coached on, you have shared with me in one way or another, either intentionally or unintentionally, right? So that's another thing to think about, guys, right? If you can get yourself buzzing, you can share that with others that also helps them develop and move forward, whether you're a leader or whether you're professional, it doesn't make a difference.
SPEAKER_03:And then let's just talk about leaders as coaches for a second as well, because it it's a definite skill that every leader should try and develop. Now it doesn't mean you've got to be a coach, but it it means that you need to understand when you're being a manager leader and when you're being a coach leader, and learn some techniques, learn some of the basics, like the grow model you can use as a coach, you know, the goals, reality, options, way forward. Um, so which is one of the basic coaching models, but just learn some basic coaching techniques and models that you can then help your people with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's interesting you say that because I've got grow written down on my pad here, and I was going to ask you in your world how current that is. That was one of the first coaching models I ever learned in the 90s, and to be honest, it's probably as effective now, but I guess there's other techniques as well, right? But that's a great model, right?
SPEAKER_03:So I was doing an NLP coaching course uh 18 months ago, and the grow model was the basis for it.
SPEAKER_02:So, so you don't have to throw it, you don't have to throw it out because it's old, right? That doesn't mean it's not effective.
SPEAKER_03:It's just a set of questions. It's a bit like you know, we we taught in sales, we we teach the whiteboard methodology as a way of uh question, uncovering uh value and uncuff uncovering customer needs. Yeah, the the whiteboard method is a brilliant method of questioning for coaching, and it's very similar to the grow model. So just having that structure, and that's where coaches add value is to help lead people through that process. But as a leader, you don't have to be trained and go through years of qualifications to just learn some basic coaching techniques that you can use with your team to help them, yeah, rather than tell them, help them.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, the important thing about our session here today, guys, we're not here to try and teach you how to coach. We're not here to to to have a mentoring session, we're here to talk about the merits of it. Yeah, we're here to talk about the benefits that we've personally seen and to encourage you to consider that, to look into it. I mean, maybe in the in future episodes near, we might talk a bit further about how people can get some help, although we have got offers in terms of coaching sessions for people, right? Um, but it but but that's the main thing here, guys, is espousing the value of it and to and asking you to go and look at it yourself and consider whether you think it could be beneficial for to you. I'd be surprised if you didn't confirm it would be in one shape or form.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I think you know, so if you want to grow as a leader, if you want to be a better leader, if you want to um your team to thrive, your business to thrive, find a mentor, engage a coach, learn some coaching skills that you can then use with your team. Yeah, and and if you want to work, you know, if you want to have a free coaching session with us as well, we've offered that as you know, we'd love to um take you through the experience of being coached in a leadership um capacity. Yeah, um so I think we've kind of we've kind of talked around that topic now. Anything else you want to add?
SPEAKER_02:When you and I were talking in the prep, I asked you the question on your opinion on the difference between coaching and counselling. We just cover that quickly.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, okay. So it is important because when you're trained as a coach, one of the things they teach you is you're not a therapist, you're not a counsellor. And counseling starts straying into therapy, into medical, and having to be so so you've got to recognize. So part of your coaching session might be someone goes to seek counseling. Yeah, so if they're struggling with uh relationship issues with their family or something, that's affecting work, or they've got an addiction of some kind, or they've got bereavement, those sort of things need to be dealt with by professionals. Coaching can help handle some of the thought process, but it won't unaddress the underlying psychological issues.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So good important to realize that, guys, right? You know, counseling is more medical and therapy and is available to many people via one way or another, whether it's national health or others. But that isn't coaching, that isn't mentoring, right? So good, good distinction for us to get here, guys.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So I'll let you wrap up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, look, guys, thank you very much for your time. I hope you've enjoyed that session and you've learned something from that, and it's encouraged you to consider how you might want to improve yourself as you go forward. Thank you for your ratings, thank you for your subscriptions, and uh, we're enjoying carrying on with this. We've got some great material. Neil and I have been talking today about material coming up for the future weeks and months. So, looking forward to doing that. So please give it, keep us your ratings coming, keep us your feedback coming. We've got, I think in the next couple of episodes, we're we're responding to requests from people who have suggested online. So that's fantastic to hear. So thanks very much. Um, Neil, anything else from you?
SPEAKER_03:No, I'll just say thanks for all your comments. Keep the feedback coming, keeps us motivated. And uh if it I'd love, we'd we'd love to engage with you in a coaching session at some point if that uh is going to add value to you.
SPEAKER_02:So, guys, you would have seen both Neil and I book posts up about a webinar that we've got coming up. First time that we're doing that. So we've got that as a live session. You can register for that. Please have a look on Neil's LinkedIn, look on my LinkedIn, please register and come and join us. It's gonna be a great session.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, looking forward to a bit, you know, a bit nervous about doing a live um live webinar, but uh we'll have some fun with that and hopefully get some great QA from people as we go through it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Good to see you.com slash local to find out more.
SPEAKER_00:To make sure millions of people are getting paid on time and in compliance, ADP is staying on top of each new piece of legislation. So when it comes down to it, ADP isn't just a payroll in HR company. We're the company that helps to navigate complexity. Learn more at adp.com.