Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
Albert and Neil Interview Each Other - Lessons in Leadership from 50 Plus Years of Experience (# 1-30)
Episode 30 - Neil and Albert Interview Each Other
A chance for you to hear a bit about our own personal experiences, preferences and memories over a joint 50 years++ of leadership.
Now more than ever, it's critical that customers find accurate information about your business. LocalWorks on Yahoo Small Business makes it easy to add, edit, and publish business information across 70 plus local directories from a single dashboard. Ensure your business is found with local works and save 10% today by using code LWPODCAST. Visit Yahoo Smallbusiness.com slash local to find out more.
SPEAKER_04:Hey guys, welcome back to Leadership Detectives. And welcome back to 2021. Great to get the year underway. Neil and I thought we'd do something a little bit different this time. We decided to interview each other. We thought we'd create some sharing of our own experiences over the years that we've been enjoying leadership in our various roles. We'd allow you the opportunity to learn a little bit more about each of us that you maybe don't or didn't know. It was actually quite embarrassing to talk about yourself, to be honest, but um I think it's even more so when you're answering unexpected or unscripted questions. We didn't really know what each other had planned uh for the question change. So a bit of a risk, but honestly, it was really good fun to have done. So I hope you enjoy this. I hope you get something from it. Have fun. Speak you soon.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome to 2021, everyone. Happy New Year. I hope everyone had a fantastic Christmas and new year, albeit a little bit smaller, I guess, with the people you got to see. How you doing, mate? I'm not bad.
SPEAKER_04:Happy New Year! Did you get some social time? Did you get some fun time?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, not really. I mean, yes, Christmas. I love Christmas anyway. It's a great good feeling and stuff, but it's a shame not being able to see the family. You know, I've got lots of kids and stuff like you haven't, and it's just a shame. Um, but you know, we made the most of it like British people do.
SPEAKER_04:I think that's just what you got to do, right? We can sit and whinge about it, or we can make the best of it. And and look, good times will come back, right? Good times will come back.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we're in the winter and the spring's just around the corner in many ways. The winter of this problem, the winter it physically, you know, physically in the in the calendar.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, but spring's right around the corner.
SPEAKER_04:So it's not something I normally say, but goodbye 2020, right? I'm not normally saying goodbye to the year before because I didn't it you move over, right? But goodbye, 2020. 2021, new year, fresh start. Let's get going, let's see what more value we can add. Um, you know, as we closed out last year, mate, we we we felt like we probably added some value for people, right?
SPEAKER_03:If we yeah, and it kind of I saw lots of messages and lots of images around this goodbye 2020. Um, and I thought, you know what? Actually, I do I just am I guilty because I actually didn't think it was a bad year. You know, I there were lots of good things that came out of it, you know, people got closer together, people did more exercise. Um, you know, I I uh we we came together as a country. Yeah, I learned loads of new skills because I had to, you know, so did lots of people. So I was kind of thinking, actually, I can look back at 2020 and go, actually, that wasn't such a bad year. Yeah, there were lots of things I'd love to have done I couldn't do. And obviously, you know, I wasn't didn't get hit by anybody in the family becoming really ill. But you know, there was some good stuff came out of it as well.
SPEAKER_04:It's a good point. You should we shouldn't we shouldn't just overlook that stuff, right? I think it's worth I was doing my goals actually, and I'm I guess we might come on and do that. Maybe we'll do a session around goal setting, right? Um, because you're good at that, you'll you'll be a good coach on that for for the team here, right? Um, but I was doing that, but as part of that, you've got to look back and say, well, how did I do on my goals for 2020? Yeah, I actually did better than I thought, right? I actually did better than I thought.
SPEAKER_03:So um good. So this is gonna be a fun session today. So we thought that what we would do to kick off the year is interview each other, ask each other some questions to uncover some maybe some clues around leadership we haven't talked about over the last six months, and also to give a chance for our audience to get to know us a little bit better. Yeah, sounds good. How are you feeling about that?
SPEAKER_04:I'm feeling good, and just for the audience to be clear, there has been no um what's the right word? Cooperation, is that the right word between Neil and myself? We haven't planned the questions. I have no idea what Neil's gonna ask me. He has no idea what I'm gonna ask him. This is gonna be straight off the top of our head and from our heart in terms of the answers to the questions. Either that or we're gonna blag it really well.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so who do what who do you want to go first? Do you want to start or do you want me to start?
SPEAKER_04:No, but you you go on, you you you hit with the first question.
SPEAKER_03:Whoa, okay, you're sure. You ready? Oh my gosh. Okay, so um I spent quite a lot of time thinking about this, and I wanted to ask questions that might uncover things about you that people don't know. So, the first question I've got on leadership is what are your earliest memories of being a leader?
SPEAKER_04:My earliest memories would go back even before I joined a corporate career in IBM. I was an apprentice at Hoover's as an engineer. Yeah, we got made redundant because they were moving us and they had to find us a job. And I got put into an engineering company in Uxbridge, and the foreman of the time, who's still a mate of mine, left and went to Scotland, and I got made foreman at 19.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_04:So at 19, I was suddenly in charge of the section. And that was my first memory of if I don't plan and ask to get things done, they might not get done. So that was my first realization that I was expected to lead.
SPEAKER_03:So you were okay, so you were given a leadership role.
SPEAKER_04:I didn't take it, I didn't ask for it.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, and and can you think of any other earlier times, even where people followed you because you were a leader?
SPEAKER_04:Um, yeah, there's a longer story around when I was in the Cub Scouts, right? But what I would say, there's a good example there of something we were doing. I won't go through the whole thing, but it was a challenge that our Kla had given us. But our Kayla's son was also in the Scouts with us, and everybody followed him because he must be right because he's our Kela's son. And in the challenge she gave us, I thought that's wrong. What they're doing is wrong. I think we need to do this instead. And nobody came with me, everybody went with Dave because he was the right guy, and I was right, and they were all wrong. And at that point, people went, actually, and then people started listening to me. And I kind of went, what, from one bit of fun challenge? But no, it's funny because people get some evidence that maybe you're worth doing. I've not even realized that's probably even earlier, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, interesting. All right, I thought that'd be worth uncovering because I think typically the people who gravitate towards leadership roles have have demonstrated leadership tendencies or people follow them, yeah, earlier on in their life and even in junior life.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, so that's interesting. So the question I had for you as the opening one was similar but not the same. And it was when did you know you wanted to be a leader?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's a really good question, actually. Um, and and actually it is a very similar question because it does go back to childhood. So I knew I wanted to lead, or I I yeah, I knew I wanted to lead people when I was going back below 10 years old, so I can't remember whether it's seven, eight, nine, I don't know. But my my father built built us like a wooden hut behind our garage. And because I liked um being busy and doing stuff, and I had the motivation to do things, all the other kids that lived in the street around us, because we lived in this kind of residential area, um, I'd get them all together and we'd get together in this hut on a morning and during the holidays, and we'd go, right, what are we doing today? And and I'd come up with a load of stuff, right? Why don't we do this? Why don't we do that? Um, and that what the reason I wanted to lead was because otherwise we'd have sat around doing bugger all. And so I wanted to lead because I wanted us to go and do stuff, yeah, yeah. And so that's probably my earliest in indicator that I wanted to lead, and I could because these guys used to turn up every day and they wanted me to what we do in Slay Neil.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, so it was definitely did you see yourself as leading then, or did you see yourself as just creating things for us to do?
SPEAKER_03:So did you consciously know you were leading? So I guess there's an interesting story, right? Because I was a big James Bond fan, and uh, so I so I created this spy club. Now bear in mind I was below 10 years old, and uh, so I used to I had this map of the area pinned on the wall of this hut, and um I used to we used to all get together and then I would sit in my hut like um uh I don't know my M in uh James Bond. Um, and uh and and I would send them out to go and see what's going on in the area, and then they had to come back and report back to me. So that they go off in two, and they go, right this lady's out in her garden. So um, so I knew I was leading because I was sitting back at HQ sending people out with instructions.
SPEAKER_04:That's fantastic. That is fantastic.
SPEAKER_03:Now, I haven't told that to anybody outside of the family, I don't think, ever.
SPEAKER_04:So, do you think any of the people that were involved in that might be watching this?
SPEAKER_03:I I have no idea actually, I've no idea where any of them are now. I mean, we are going back what 40 40 plus years. So, um, yeah. Fantastic. So that was yeah, so that I guess that's it. Right. Next question.
SPEAKER_04:That's a great, that's a great, that's a great memory, mate.
SPEAKER_03:That's a great memory. Um, so thinking of, I guess, what what was your best moment as a leader in in any time in your career or in your personal life? What was your best time as a leader?
SPEAKER_04:I'd say the best time, and it wasn't a moment in time, it was an evolution, but it was when I took the job as director of technical support services for UK Island South Africa, and we knew we had a problem. And I think you might remember that meeting we had down at Heckfield House down in Eversley, and we all got in the room together and went, right, guys, cards on the table, we're not making the revenue, we're not making the profit, our customers hate us, our people don't like us. Um, we got to change this thing. What how are we gonna do that? By the way, guys, before we go any further, if anybody wants to leave the room, that's fine. But if you stay in the room, then we're going forward together. And sometime later, Neil, when was it? Three years into that, two and a half years into that, we were told we were the best performing unit in the world, right? We'd beaten Germany, we'd beaten the US, and you and I know they were kind of targets for ours, right? Yeah, I don't know, there wasn't a moment in time, but there was a point at which we went, this plans come together, and the things we said we wanted to do, and we'd made changes in the team over that period because you looked at things and went, This isn't going the way I want. We need to change that person. That felt like, but but I would say I never felt that was just my leadership, I felt that was our plan had come together, but clearly my leadership was a major piece of that, right?
SPEAKER_03:So so that sounds, and I obviously I remember it because I was there and I was part of it, but that that that was kind of like a leadership journey that two, three years. But it was there a moment, a moment when you know, when you just that tingle comes in, when you just you know, you just emotions well up and you just think I am so proud of myself, or I'm proud of the team, or you know, as a leader.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, actually, now you now you ask it again. I think what I would take that back to is do you remember the times that we used to do the business briefing sessions? We hired centre parks. Um, and I remember no off-site meetings, we hired center parks, we had 250 people in the room, and I got introduced onto stage as the director, and the first charts I put up were let's take a look back in the year before. And we went, we hit the revenue, we hit the profit, we hit the customer sat, the dum dum dum dum dum. And I could stand on stage and go, I did that, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that because I made sure we had the right things we needed. So, yeah, actually, it's quite interesting. I can see this is really arrogant, isn't it? But I can see myself standing on stage now with that feeling going, Wow. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's interesting because those moments tend to happen because of everything that's gone on before, because of the hardship that's gone on before, because of the difficult decisions, the difficult conversations, and the amount of hard work. Uh, it's when that all comes together that that those you know, you think you know, wow, I just feel great. So I'm gonna ask a second question as well because it's linked.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:So what was the worst moment as a leader? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:The worst moment as a leader was the my boss's boss at the time decided he didn't like the way things were going, and he forced what he called the Sunday meeting. So we came in on a Sunday to a meeting and he said, Bring your team with you. And when we went in the room, I basically had planned out how we were going to manage things, and he got up at the flip chart and he did some maths, and he said, based on where you are, to based on where you need to be, 84 people have to be gone within the month. And I went, Yeah, but if we look at it this way, and he went, 84 people are gone. And I remember sitting there thinking, I'm the leader, I make the decisions, what happens in my business to hit my results. And he said, 84 people are gone. And across the table was my boss, and I said, Yeah, but if you look at it this way, and my boss was going, and I went, no, and he said, 84, or would you like it to be 85? And I remember thinking then, I'm the leader, I'm accountable, I don't mind living with the tough decisions I've got to make, but I've now got to go and execute somebody else's decision. Yeah, and in the course of that, 84 people won't have a job. It was a horrible place to be, right? Yeah, yeah, as a leader, because you're going, I'm not leading here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and that's one of the downsides of corporate life, isn't it? That you don't have that control, and sometimes you have to accept those uh decisions, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And you have to accept that the people would believe it was my decision. I can't tell them I'm doing it because I've been told to, because the right thing as a leader is you're accountable, right? Yeah, we've said that, right?
SPEAKER_03:Extreme ownership, extreme ownership, extreme ownership. Yeah, you have to take it and then you have to execute on it, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so you you were a sales leader, right? You were sales director at Europe, but before that, you were well, let me do the one that before you were that you were sales director in the UK, right? Um, and I could see that more visibly than I didn't see you actively in Europe. But what I would say was in your UK role, your team would do anything for you, and I would probably say unconditionally. How did you get them to behave that way? I mean, you can tell a story if you want where you took them off in and got them sleeping under tar uh tarpaulin, right? But but they did those things, and I say, for you, how did you get them to do that?
SPEAKER_03:I'm squirming a little bit because it is it's very difficult talking about yourself, actually, isn't it? It is, it is. Um, it is embarrassing, but it's also factual, yeah. And and there's probably some good learning in there, right? Because yeah, and I know that I had a you know very strong following, so that's a really uh good question, and thanks for your your kind comments as well. Um, I think there are a number of things I think I focused on because because by the way, it was the same when I was in the military as well. I had people that would follow me, and I wasn't sure why. Why do people keep following me and doing what I say? What I what I think I was good at, and we've talked about this a lot in the uh episodes, was a couple of things. Um I was always really clear on where we were going and unwaveringly clear on an ambitious goal in whatever I did, and it was the same in my sport, same in the having that unwavering goal of where where I was going and believing we could get there, and then making sure everyone knew what their part was in that. That was something I was very good at, and you know, that was and was important to me. The second thing I uh I did regularly and I enjoyed it, but I think it was really important is communication. So, in all of the roles I did, I I always made sure there was some kind of regular communication, me on a conference call with the whole business telling them good or bad news, telling them what's going on, telling them where we are, telling them what we need from them, just that communication, um and also regular email communication, all of that kind of stuff as well. So communication was really important, very open uh communication. Um I think the other thing I don't know, it's always difficult to talk about yourself, but I think the other thing I was good at was decision making. So, and you know, if a problem got to me, um I would make a decision on it. And and so uh people knew that I had their backs, I wouldn't do their job for them, I had their backs, and if they needed a decision, they weren't gonna get, well, we could do this or this, I need to go and get some in for input for it. I would just make a decision. So I guess those are the first three things that come to the top of my head.
SPEAKER_04:But but that that's interesting because we've talked about that before about being consistent and being you know clear and making tough decisions and making them fast, but a bit of a supplementary question, and you may have answered it, maybe not. But in in getting that to work, you gained commitment from people, not from a team, but from individuals. How do you get that commitment in an individual?
SPEAKER_03:So that's a really it's a really good question, actually. And that'd be a good question to ask our guests. Yeah, actually, I like that question. Um I think the the clarity and communication come into that for certain, and the consistency as you just said. I think the other piece, um and actually, this has come up quite often, is just being human, is understanding people and and just being interesting. You know, I if I was in a car driving from Warwick to London or whatever, I would be on the phone, and if I hadn't spoken to one in my team that day, I would phone them up. You know, how you doing? What's what you're up to? You know, just I would make sure I was constantly in communication with my managers or my team, and and it it it was just it was something always in my mind was to talk to them, see how they are, they're like my family. I needed to make sure I was keeping in touch. So I guess that maybe that element gets some commitment there as well.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, yeah, yeah. I mean, look, they certainly knew that you had their back, right? There was no doubt about that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and actually, there's a bad side to this as well, just listening to myself talking. So I just want to. So, one of the things, if I think about this absolute focus on a goal, the downside of that is that you don't have any flexibility and uh you don't have any tolerance with people outside of your team who aren't supporting you on that goal. And actually, as I've matured, I think I'm probably better at that than I was then. Um, but uh actually, Jenna, actually, here's a here's a thought. So, one of the things um Jose Mourinho is great at as a leader, and this is one of the things that I just thinking about it now, I used to do, is he he likes to get the world against them.
unknown:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, everyone else hates us, the press hate us, the other teams hate us, but we're we're you know, we're all together in this. And to be honest, I used to do that. I definitely used to do a, you know, we're we're in this together, guys. You know, don't worry about them or them, you know. We we'll we'll do it despite them, you know. So I'm not saying that's good or bad, but that was certainly something I I used to do.
SPEAKER_04:But it creates a team bond, right? That isn't a bad thing, it creates a team bond where they all felt some sense of ownership to that.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so it's interesting. I my my next question to you actually is not dissimilar to that uh one. So let me uh go with that. So you know, people all wanted to follow you, they wanted to be part of your team and didn't want to leave either. So the question is what do you think made you a leader that people wanted to follow?
SPEAKER_04:Um I I I got I got um I used to go and present to the graduates when they first came into the company, right? So I'd go and stand on stage and welcome them and give them all that stuff, and I and they opened up for QA once. And they these guys said to me, by the way, really quick story, it's my mum and dad's anniversary, I can't remember what it was, let's call it their 25th anniversary. And I said I couldn't do the presentation that day because I had to take them to London where they were going out, and the team were desperate for me to do the presentation at this hotel in Heathrow. So they said, Why don't you just stop on the way through, do the presentation and carry on? So I said, Okay, I said I can't leave my mum and dad in the car. So I brought my mum and dad in and they sat at the back of the room. I did my presentation and stuff, they opened up for QA, and one of the questions was, How do you be tough with people but be fair with people? What's the right thing to do? And I said, It's really simple advice that I was given by my mum, which was just treat people the way you would expect to be treated yourself. And I remember people said to me as I went through my career, sometimes you know, when we used to end up down at what was the pub down there? I can't remember the uh yeah, Mulberry Bush.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04:We'd ended up in Mulberry Bush, MFP, and then more than once people said to me, Do you know what? No matter what job you've done, no matter how many promotions you've had, you're the same guy. And I went, That's interesting. Why wouldn't I be? And I said, Well, you know, normally when people go through, they change. And I went, No, because what's made me successful is being the guy I was, and so I think, and honestly, that again, thanks for your comments, Neil. And it feels it does feel difficult talking about yourself, yes. Yeah, yeah, but but it was a fact, it was just just carried on being myself and being fair to people, right? Um, by the way, the other the another question that came to me was um, how do you how do you work you know constantly to always be achieving? And I said, because another piece of advice which I got was from my dad was just do your best to your potential. You can't do more than that, right? Just do your best. So between that, I think first of all, people knew that we took on challenges that were tough, and when we achieved them, we celebrated, right? Most of the other businesses weren't celebrating, we were celebrating when we achieved major milestones. So people like that. Um, but we were tough with people, but we rewarded people as well. So yeah, people wanted to work for us. By the way, they didn't just want to work for me in my business, they wanted to work for us as a leadership team. How much praise did we get as a leadership team? But again, that comes back to me as the leader, but it also comes back to the team members, right? You've got to you've got to create the right aura in your team that people want to be in it and they want to do their best as well, but it's the leadership's job to tackle that if it's not working.
SPEAKER_03:So hang on, there is there's there's an important point there. You create an aura in the team.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So how do you do that?
SPEAKER_04:Honesty and openness for me was absolutely key, right? If we were not making it happen, let's be honest, guys. Let's not pretend we're not making it happen. Then let's work out why, but let's work on the basis that no one's doing anything deliberately. I've said it before, I don't think people get out of bed in the morning with a plan to mess up today. So something's gone wrong, let's work it out and let's fix it and let but let's let's not bury our head in the sand. If something's not working, let's attack it, right? And and that's very much, I think, your mentality as well, right? Yeah, take action, take action and get it done.
SPEAKER_03:So I'm just I want to just drill a little bit deeper into this because treating people the way you want to be treated is is definitely an important or clearly was an important part of what you did. But let me ask it in a different way. Was there a regular habit you had? Call it a habit, but something you did regularly that you think was one of the reasons that people wanted to follow you, uh, be part of the team, or saw you as a good leader. You know, what would you say, and because this is a good tip for our listeners. So, what would be a good habit that you know you did that that really reinforced that leadership?
SPEAKER_04:I consciously, and I can say this because I knew it was not something that just came naturally, I would make myself do it. I consciously spoke to as many people as I could at any time I could and treated them all the same. So if I was talking to a second-line manager who's just left my office, and I went out of my office and I headed down to get a coffee, and I passed some professionals along the way in my business, I would stop and talk to them, ask them how they were, da da da da da da. I'd get to the coffee lounge, I would treat the lady who's giving me my coffee with the same level of respect. How are you? How was your weekend? Dum dum dum dum dum. Yeah, and that for me was an absolute given. And again, it comes from my upbringing and it comes from from the way that I was as a person, but I always got comment about that when people were in a in a open, excuse me, in an open feeling and wanting to have that conversation with you, they would tell me that you talk to everyone and you're always open with everyone.
SPEAKER_03:So I think the the word that comes to my mind, and it definitely is something that would I think everybody would say about you is approachable. You know, know that you were approachable by everyone, which actually probably creates that whole this is a good, nice guy to work for, good guy to work for, because I know whatever my issues are, I can I can approach him.
SPEAKER_04:That that's a really good point, Lanian. Just to just want to expand on that a little bit. Um, and I don't mind saying it openly here, I'm sure he's gonna watch it. I had a heart to heart with my son the other day, and he actually said I wasn't that approachable. It's interesting, right? Because in a corporate setting, I believed I was, but sometimes we might not realize we create uh a feeling around ourselves where some people don't see you as approachable, right? So, for whatever reason, my son, and for whatever his upbringing and background is, didn't see me as approachable as maybe the coffee lady did. Well, that's crazy, but you it's a message for us to take on board, right? Don't think because you think it's working for the people you see that it's working for everybody, it might not be.
SPEAKER_03:No, that's a good that's a good point. I get reminded by Anna all the time that um I'm nice to everybody when I'm on business calls and stuff like that, and I'm a very different person at home. It's not intentional, right?
SPEAKER_04:It's not intentional.
SPEAKER_03:No, um okay, so where were we? Um that was you to me, right? Yeah, we'll do let's do one more, you yeah, and then um we'll go on to some quick fire.
SPEAKER_04:Um, you've commented about it, and it is difficult talking about ourselves, so maybe this one's fair to help you with, right? What was the most common criticism or feedback that you got as a leader from whomever?
SPEAKER_03:About me as an individual.
SPEAKER_04:About you as an individual.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah, you could help me with that, no problem. So there, I guess um, so uh the big it was so there's two types of criticism. There's criticism from your team to you as a leader, and there's a criticism from the P your peer group. The criticism from my peer group is easy to, you know, I was a stubborn son of a bitch who um uh was very focused on what I needed to achieve, and you know, and and sod every not sod everyone else, but you know, everyone else it needs to be part of that with me. And um, if it's not helping me, I'm not sure I'm gonna be that interested in it. So but you didn't hide that, right? No, I definitely wore my heart mostly. Um I think if what critic so so your team very rarely give you criticism because they work for you, yeah, yeah. Um but I would think my my a weakness I felt I had, which was something you were very strong at. A weakness I felt I had was in uh spending enough time developing people's careers. Okay. So that wasn't not not from a conversation point of view, not from a um, you know, I want to work with you point of view. It was more I want to help you. It was more there's a load of admin around this, and admin was never something I was good at. Um, so uh I guess that yeah, but I don't know if that answers the question.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, but it probably does actually, because what you are really good at, you've continued with, which is coaching people, right? So so doing the actual encouragement and driving people's career with them, you're good at the content of that, but as you said, the admin of that is a pain in the neck. Yeah, when you're now in extreme energy and neilfub.com doing it the way you want to do it, it works for you, right?
SPEAKER_03:That's that's true, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's that's a really good point, actually. Yeah, really good point.
SPEAKER_03:Um, so uh who started? Did you start? Did I start? I can't remember now. Uh you did. Asking you a question. So we've got a quick quick fire questions then now, shall we? Okay, let's do that. Um, so I've got I think I've got four here. Actually, no, let's I've got five. So, first of all, what's your main goal for 2021?
SPEAKER_04:Um, main goal from 2021 is getting the right balance between finding challenging things to do, using my time well, and making sure that's spread between working and enjoying life. And it's about getting that balance right. Um, although you know, there's never a perfect balance, but that's that's that's my main goal is careful I don't go all to one or one to the other.
SPEAKER_03:So that's really interesting, actually. So um we haven't talked about this before, but that's my number one goal for this year as well. Yeah, bizarre enough, is to work that and actually maybe there's a uh podcast on balance and how to achieve that because yeah, you know, and how leaders can achieve that. Yeah, okay. So quick fire yeah, you go on, you do one then. Role model. Who would you put as a role model for you? A leadership role model. Um, I've got a number uh uh of leadership role models. Uh so Richard Branson is definitely up there as a business role model, Elon Musk for a you know a visionary uh technologist role model. Um yeah, I guess uh without knowing people, it's difficult to know what they're like to work for. But I guess those two come to mind. I mean, Nelson Mandela is a visionary leader as well, but those are the kind of ones that come to mind. Okay, cool. And actually, I've got the same similar question here that says, you know, what what public figure do you most admire in leadership role?
SPEAKER_04:Oh gosh, public figure in a leadership role. I would say Barack Obama.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_04:If I look at Barack Obama and his values and his way of and and communicating for me is quite a key thing, right? You know, two people could have exactly the same drive, but if you don't communicate it well, so without going too deep on quickfire, I'd say Barack Obama. Okay, and his overall values. Um for you, what would you say is your best asset as a leader?
SPEAKER_03:Uh focus. Focus and drive. Yeah, that was definitely my best asset. So um what film or TV series do you think is a great example of good leadership?
SPEAKER_04:I don't know. If you ask me about the best film, I'd say Top Gun, right? But I don't know why. Um, but is that a good example of leadership? No, I'm not sure I can think of one film. I would say if there is a film, it would be what's based around a sport, you know, and there are films that got to do with like American football, that type of thing. I think that would be for me what would really drive it because sport is a great analogy about how you lead people to give it their role or give it their best. So I couldn't think of an actual film, but I would say if it was sport-based.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_04:Um, and for you, this is my last one to you, right? One piece of advice for aspiring leaders, not current leaders.
SPEAKER_03:I've got the same uh question for you. So we'll both do that then to finish off. Okay. One piece of advice for aspiring leaders, so they're not leaders today.
SPEAKER_04:Correct.
SPEAKER_03:Assume that you are and act like you are a leader.
SPEAKER_04:Great bit of advice. Great bit of advice.
SPEAKER_03:And what would yours be?
SPEAKER_04:Mine for aspiring leaders or current leaders.
SPEAKER_03:Aspire, aspiring leaders, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Aspiring leaders. Make sure you know why. Make sure you know why. I I've seen people who wanted to be a leader because it was the next promotion level or the way to earn money, and it probably wasn't right for them. So make sure you know the why. Neil's talked about this before. Your drivers and the why is much more important than the what.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's a really uh, really, really good piece of advice as well. So, should we should we do a wrap there?
SPEAKER_04:Do a wrap there. That that was really good, by the way. Neil really enjoyed that. Yeah, your idea to do that, and and hopefully we brought something out there for people because these answers have been straight from the heart, guys, in terms of what we think, right?
SPEAKER_03:So, and a little uncomfortable being interviewed, actually. So, it's a good learning lesson there for us in terms of how we interview some of our guests going forward. But obviously, you know, we we know each other well, so we can drill down a little bit more than we might do with someone we don't know as well. Um, but no, hopefully that was useful as the first uh episode of 2021, and we're really excited about some of the guests we've got coming up, and we're gonna really ramp up guests, topics, but we're always looking for ideas, so please let us know. I'll let you let you close.
SPEAKER_04:That's got to be a key opening, sorry, a key closing point for us here as we open 2021, guys. Neil and I will always have material, we will always come up with something next, but the ones that have been exciting in 2020 was where people came to us and said, here's an idea, here's something I'd like you to talk about. If you've got any more, please tell us, right? Um, we did 29 episodes in 2020, and this is now episode 30 as we've entered 2021. I don't see us stopping soon, and I don't see us running out of ideas. So, welcome to 2021. Happy New Year, everyone. Looking forward to working with you, looking forward to sharing with you, looking forward to adding value. Um, Neil, great to see you. Thanks for your time today. Cheers, guys, take care of you. Cheers, take care of it.
SPEAKER_02:Virginia, William Hill, America's number one sports book, is now here. Come on, additional plus 21 plus company. Let's make it into William Hill Sportsbook.
SPEAKER_00:Any role in HR company needs to be prepared for whatever is going to happen. You can say that over 70 years of experience helping businesses all over the world run smoothly is good preparation. But for ADP, that's not enough. To make sure millions of people are getting paid on time and in compliance, we're staying on top of each new piece of legislation. So when it comes down to it, ADP isn't just a payroll in HR company. We're the company that helps you navigate the complexities. ADP, HR talent, time, benefits, and payroll, informed by data and designed for people.