Leadership Detectives
Leadership Detectives
LEADERSHIP and CAREER insight with Carmina Lees (# 1-25)
A great interview with Carmina Lees; Managing Director, Financial Services, Accenture.
She talks career and leadership - all she has achieved to date, what's made her successful, her views on leadership, women in Technology, women in Leadership and how to balance that with being a Mum of two young children.
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SPEAKER_03:Hey guys, welcome back to Leadership Detective. Great to have you back here with us today. Really excited about the episode we're bringing you today. It's an interview with a senior female leader in tech, Carmen Elise. She's got a great reputation as a leader, successful in her career, and balances all of that with being a mum of two young children. She'll tell you a bit more about herself, her career, her insights and views on being a great leader. So come and join us for a great open discussion. Hope you enjoy. Hey, good morning. Welcome. Welcome back to Leadership Detectives. We're going to have a new session for you here today. We said we're going to bring another guest along, but before we do that, Neil, how are you? Good to see you. I'm outstanding. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Delighted lockdown finishes this week. Um, not that it makes any difference at all to stay in here working from here, etc. But no, it's great to see a new uh person joining us to be interviewed today. So, Albert, why don't you introduce our guest, please?
SPEAKER_03:Indeed. So, guys, we're really, really privileged to have with us today Carmina Lees. Carmina and I worked together back in IBM many years ago. I can't remember Carmina, probably five, ten more years. And uh Neil worked with Carmina as well over the period. Since then, Carmina's been off and done other things. So her title today is Managing Director of Financial Services Accenture. Carmina, welcome. Good to see you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Thank you. I'm really honoured that you've actually asked me to be on this great show. So thank you very much.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, that's a great start. What a great.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, a little broth.
SPEAKER_04:And uh so this is Saturday morning, we really appreciate you giving your sat, you know, a half an hour, 40 minutes your Saturday morning to us, really to help us with the kind of find those clues around leadership to help the people who are listening to this. Just so that people get to know you a little bit better. If you were walking onto stage and you had a compare introducing you onto stage, how would you how would you want to be introduced? What would you want this mixed audience of a thousand people to know about Carmen and Lisa?
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow, that's a question and a half, Neil. Thanks for that. Um well I think um I think maybe a bit about I've been um within the technology industry for like well, it's about 22 years now, which is a bit scary, which makes me feel really old when I say that. Um I I'd like them to bring I'm very passionate about uh women in technology, really passionate about that. Um I have a big passion for cybersecurity as well. Um, and I'm a mum. Um, and so I think you know, trying to, as most people, men, women, everybody, you know, we're always juggling. So I think the intro, I'd like it to be, you know, what I'm passionate about, what I've sort of been doing, but don't think mum of it as well, because that's important. And so I don't know if that really answers your question.
SPEAKER_04:A bit of a boring intro, maybe. It was more about how you would introduce yourself. How many kids have you got?
SPEAKER_01:I have two girls. Two how old? They are seven and eleven.
SPEAKER_02:So, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I push on them quite a lot about being in technology and try and make it fun for them, which they currently think is a bit boring. But then when I talk to them about, you know, you look at these new apps and you look at Disney World with the you know, the watches and the badges that you could get into your room, get it into things, you know, try and make it a bit more live for them to make it exciting, start from a young age, as I say.
SPEAKER_04:And and is that something you'd encourage people to do then to start getting children thinking about technology?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for me it's um I I I've talked to our school, I've talked at you know different events, and when I've been on panels and stuff, I think I think sometimes we start a bit late. I think we you know, in schools and we try and start maybe like GCSE time, and I just think that can be a bit late. You think of you know the um environment our children are up in today so different to what we grew up with, and now you look at you know global pandemic, it's forced us into a whole new digital world. So, um, yeah, I'm quite passionate about it. I just think we need to start younger. Um, so yeah, it's something I do go on about a bit. Um, I think my girls get a bit bored.
SPEAKER_03:And you're entitled to, why not? Why not?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Carmina, you and I have known each other for quite a few years, right? And I know you for when you were a professional before you even got into management, right? Yeah, and now you're here as a managing director in Accenture.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What are your proudest moments of your career? Think about some of the proudest moments of your career.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I've got a lot actually. Um so I think um a big thing for me was uh making director at IBM, and I was six months pregnant at the time. Not that that mattered because you know it is all about merit and you got there for the right reasons, but I was so proud, you know, the day I got that certificate, and I just I got there a lot quicker than I thought, and I was very proud of that as well. But um yeah, I just it was an amazing time when I got the call from the current general manager just before Christmas. It was made my Christmas, so very proud, and knowing that I could sort of um step away and have my second daughter and almost relax knowing that you know I'd made I'd got to where I wanted to get. So that was a really proud moment for me. Yeah, and but I've got I've got a lot actually. I'm I'm really I am really proud of everything I've achieved. You know, I I started out cold calling on telephones working in IBM, so I look at you know some of the things that I've done. Um, so yeah, so I'm very proud actually.
SPEAKER_03:I think that the interesting thing is because you and I have worked together, as I said, over a number of years, and I think what you achieved was by doing a great job of what you were doing at the time, and that's one of the messages that we've passed through to our audience before, right? Don't try and accelerate your career too quickly, but do a great job and make yourself proud of the things you're doing then, and it will take you to the next place.
SPEAKER_01:So I think it's um a leader that we all know pretty well, um, a Canadian guy used to say to me, Oh, Carmini, your career is you know, a marathon, not a sprint, and it used to drive me mad. But he's so right because it really allowed me to think about some of the decisions I made when I was looking at one job away or the next move. I I actually find myself saying it today, and I almost kick myself thinking, I can't believe I'm even repeating that annoying statement he used to make today. But you know, it is right, you know, it does, you know, you you can't always be on a mission, you know. Sometimes things don't work out, as maybe if you had a bit of a plan. So um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I think one of the one of the famous speeches that Steve Jobs made at a commencement of one of the universities in the US was he talked about you know you can't join the dots forward, you can only join the dots backwards. So if you look back on what you know now, you know, sitting in in the position you're in now, looking back on what what great nuggets of advice or key moments or key things did you do that that that in your career that might be useful for people listening on here to learn?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I think there are a couple of things. I I did have a little bit of a plan, but I wasn't rigid with it. I sort of knew where I wanted to get to, or I thought I did. So I always and I always in my head I wanted to be a well-rounded leader. So I thought about the roles that would maybe get me to that point of becoming a well-rounded leader and and which roles would help me get there. A few things I I always would take roles that really took me out of my comfort zone where I'd be feeling sick, thinking, what am I doing? Even you know, you know, I had moments where I'd phone my friends and just be like, Oh my god, he's just asked me to do, I don't know what to do, I don't even know how to use Excel, you know, and I just put these silly paddings things, but gosh, did I learn from those? Really learn. So I think spin out of your comfort zone is such a good thing to do, even though it doesn't feel great at the time. But looking back, it was really good.
SPEAKER_03:You blagged it well, you blagged it well. I never realized you were ever struggling.
SPEAKER_01:Honestly, I'm a master tap dancer, yeah. Um good blagging, yeah. Um, but also what has been really vital, I think, to me is my um network and knowing people, and I have spent my life, and a lot of people have heard me talk about this before, buying people tea and coffee. I must have spent millions, but I've always been very interested when I was thinking about where I would move next. I'd go and ask, you know, a senior leader, could I have even 15 minutes of your time to understand what you do, you know, what your business does, and then I'd always ask them, who else would you recommend I go and speak to? And then it would be a new person, and then then I'd say to that new person, because people don't like to do a cold email, even if they work in the firm. So I'd say, Oh, Bob said you'd be really good to talk to about your so then I would build out this almost a mini LinkedIn network.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. And not quite at all. I'm sorry to interrupt you, I was just gonna say did anyone ever say no?
SPEAKER_01:Never, no, no one ever, and people I say it to some of the people in Accenture now. Oh god, I can't email him. Have you seen how senior he is? I'm like, Of course you can. No one ever says no, they love talking about their business, their career. Who would say no to that? You know, and if you asked for 15 minutes, you know full work's gonna be half an hour, yeah. So I did that, and then what I did do, I was careful in my approach as well, because I knew who would then all be also be at the top table. Yeah, so when the decisions came up for some of those jobs, I'd be like, I need at least three people to know me. So I'd look at our exec team, and if that name came up and they go, Oh, I met her actually, I she's got skills in this, or and someone goes, Oh, I know her. Might not know me that well, but good enough that your names come up a little bit at the top table, and it would just help me with that next move.
SPEAKER_03:Really good advice, really good advice for our for our audience. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely fantastic. Um listen, you you just said leader on here for probably one of the first times in our conversation, right? So, this is the leadership detectives, and this is about being leaders. I know that you've got a great reputation, right? Um, certainly I don't know about I don't I don't know about Accenture, so I'll have to say I knew you had a great reputation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, it's all gone down here, Albert.
SPEAKER_04:But you had a great yes, Carmina told us the other day that she had a great reputation. Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:But you had a great reputation as a leader in IBM, right? Um so tell us about some of your best moments about being a leader, not about being a you know in the role, but about being a leader, leading people.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's one of I mean, I have a real passion for leadership. I I think there's nothing better when you have a team and you are a team and you are all on, you're all in it together. You know where you're going, you know where you're heading, you know, towards if you've got that strategy or whatever. And I I um I get my leadership style might not be for everyone as well, and I've learned that as I've gone through my career. But um I think yeah, when you're fine on all cylinders and you know that team are behind you every step of the way, you know. We've talked about this before, that I know if I had to make calls at 2 a.m., I know who'd be in that. If I'm like, we all need to get in the office, I knew who'd be there. And that for me was um just knowing they had back, and I had theirs all the way as well. I think when you've got that trust and camaraderie, and we had fun. I mean, that's the best part of being a leader is having fun as well, and everyone being, you know, in the I talk about being in the same boat, being in the boat together.
SPEAKER_03:But that's a really good point you make about you've got their back, they got yours, right? What about when it goes wrong?
SPEAKER_01:What when in terms of how do you handle that, right?
SPEAKER_03:When you're the boss and things don't go to plumbing, how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's tough. I think um, you know, someone always said to me a sign of a good leader is to be able to have the tough conversations as well as the good ones, you know, you've been promoted, you've got a pay rise. But then there's also, I think I'm very open and honest. Sometimes I maybe wear my heart on my sleeve a bit too much, but I I um and what was hard, I think, as well, to have those tough messages. A lot of the people I grew up with in IBM, some of them a bit even now are my closest friends, and they sort of end up in your team. And having a tough conversation with somebody that you're good friends with is difficult. But I think Albert, you've got to be open and honest, and I think if you've been an authentic leader, yeah, and people know that about you, they know that you're delivering a tough message, but you have to do it in the right way and just be open and honest. I know I I think I've seen some leaders that they just can't have those tough conversations and they make it worse because they're skirting around the issue and they get somebody else to do it. Yeah, uh, but it is hard. I mean, you know, you wouldn't be human if you didn't take those things personally. I've you know had sleepless nights when I'm gonna have to tell somebody that I really like some pretty bad news, but it's um again, it is a sign of your leadership style and um how you manage these situations and actually showing you care afterwards as well.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, good point. And and you you mentioned something earlier, which was authentic authenticity as a leader, um, and there's a word I wrote down, which is around as you were talking, which was trust. Yeah, because it sounds like you build trust within your the team that's working for you, but how do you do that? How do you get a team to trust you and for you to trust the team so that you know that they will be there for you when you need them?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it does take time. I don't think it happens overnight unless there's people, you know, when you move into some of these roles, you do try and you want to build out if you're taking over from somebody, you do want to build out your own sort of leadership team as well and have a good sort of mix, but that really does take time, though. I think I I think for me, I really try and get to know my team and I want them to know about me as well, and about maybe a bit about my personal life, like how I work or how I like to work. And I think you know, if we can all share, you know, like that and and open up to each other, I think you do start to build that trust. Um, it's little things, you know. Sometimes we all go into a Monday morning and we forget to ask, How is your weekend? You know, and I like to know um about my team's families and maybe their names, and so I can make it a bit more personal. And I just think you end up building, you build a friendship, but then I think it's there's a line which can be tough that you're also leader as well.
SPEAKER_03:That's uh forgive me saying, and my audience might not, our audience might not like this, but I think that's much more likely with a female leader, right? Yeah, you're very open to those conversations, you're very willing to have that. You know, Neil and I have done talks about vulnerability, right? And and what you talked about there is about being vulnerable, right? Yeah, you talked about opening up about the things that were troubling you and what you're doing. Some people won't do that. How do you feel about that? How do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_01:I I think uh I can't be I can't change. I've got to my age now, you know, I'm 28 now, getting on a bit, you know. So uh so you can't change how you are, and I think um I'm quite a positive upbeat person, you know. I I like to have fun. I think we're all at a lot of times, you can have fun while you're there, but there are days I just want to shut my office door, and I, you know, we all have those days, and I think more so in this current climate, but I will open myself up and say to somebody, look, I'm just not feeling it today, just having a bit of a bad day, and that's just me. I can't hide who I am. So I think for me, Albert, you know, there's um Jean touched on it as well. There's a time and a place to do it, I think, but then if you've built also that trust with your team, yeah, I think you've got that, you know, you can share that just say I'm not in a great day today, to be honest. And I and I'm happy, I actually feel comfortable to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so so sticking on the theme of um of women leaders, um, what what advice would you have for women leaders in tech or outside of tech? Um, you know, the all people who want all women who want to become leaders, yeah. What would be good advice you could give them?
SPEAKER_01:I think um I think just having a bit of confidence. Um, we I think sometimes with women you we do doubt ourselves, you know, and I don't want to do the women be manned card, but we do doubt ourselves, you know. If me and Albert went for a job, Albert I know would go, yeah, I've got this in the bag. I know I would step back and go, Oh, I don't know if I can do that. Well, I haven't got experience in that, I've not done that before. You know, we are we are very different, and that's why we all compliment each other, but I think it is have just have confidence in yourself. Um, and and I think sometimes we miss that. We need to back ourselves a bit more. Um, and and just also saying no. Sometimes women are a bit rubbish at saying no, and I remember one of the most powerful things I ever did. I returned from maternity leave, and um, I think I'd just been made, you know, in the director role, so I felt a lot of pressure, and everyone said, right, we all need to get back on a call tonight, and we need to get on this call at half past six. And my stomach went because I thought, oh my god, I I'm bathing the girls. I mean, I I can't do a call then. And it and I thought, I'm just gonna say it. And I remember as I'm saying it in my head, I'm going, you're about to say no to a call. And I had to be on that call. It was with a lot of senior leaders, and I said, I'm so sorry, but I can't make half past six tonight that I'm bathing my children and it's bedtime. Yeah, and I said, But I can do a call at eight o'clock, nine o'clock, ten o'clock, eleven o'clock, but I just can't do that time. And as I said it, I oh my, it was awful. I felt a bit like it was really sharp. But then I had about 12 instant messages from people saying, Men and women, I'm so glad you said that. I I don't want to do a courthouse sit, you know, and everybody started pinging me, and then the most senior person on that call went, okay, everyone alright with 8 p.m. And everyone went, Yeah, brilliant. And it, but it was the best thing I ever did, and I always had that nervousness. So I think saying no sometimes can be so powerful, and I think women struggle with that a little.
SPEAKER_04:It sounds like there's two things you've said there. One of them is about um women backing themselves, being prepared to step forward where uh with the confidence, and the and the second one there, having the courage to say no in that kind of environment. Both of those take a level of courage and confidence. How do you get that?
SPEAKER_01:I do think it takes time. Uh because you yeah, I think it just takes time in your own self to you you get to the point where you sort of you know you believe in yourself a lot more. You know, I I've accomplished quite a lot of things, I know I'm a good leader, I've done well, and I've got the confidence now to say that, and I've also got to a certain level, you know, that I can say that, but I do think it takes time, definitely, Neil.
SPEAKER_03:There's um I always knew today was gonna be a challenge over time, right? Because we knew talking with you there's gonna be so much content that we can cover, and it's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like, oh cheers.
SPEAKER_03:Now, listen, really absolute privilege having you on, and it's really useful stuff for our audience, right? So, what Neil's planned for to follow is we're gonna have a bit of a quick fire on some questions before we just wrap up. But before we do that, we've gone into certain areas that we've asked you questions about. It's your stage as well, Carmina. Is there anything you'd want to raise around leadership to share with current leaders who are trying to be better leaders and aspiring leaders? Is there anything you'd want to make sure you you didn't miss getting across this morning?
SPEAKER_01:I think um I think I've said it, but I would just say be authentic. I mean, we do use that word a lot, but be authentic, you know, do take your real self to work and be human as well. Remember, people have got other things going on outside their lives, you know, and you know, sometimes people having a bad day, just ask them how they are, you know, that truly human, so authentic, truly human, and I think empower people as well. You know, empowering your team is just I mean, the results you get from people, you know, when you do empower them as a leader. Um, and I think the last thing, just have fun along the way. I mean, it's so important, you know, you want to be a leader that people want to be with, and you know, you've got to have fun.
SPEAKER_04:So, so how do you do that? How do you have fun with your team? Um, you know, I get I get involved in lots of workshops and team building events, and we do all sorts of big fun stuff for companies, but that's the big stuff where you plan it in advance. How do you have fun on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think I'm a comedian anyway, so I'm not you know, unfortunately. So I don't know. I think it's um, you know, when you build up that team though, you're all comfortable enough to sort of take the Mickey out of each other a bit and and just again, it's mostly we're all being authentic with each other, so we're able to do that. But I I don't, it's a hard question, Neil. I think it's again, if you're truly human and you've got a good team that you can trust, you all feel comfortable to do that anyway and have a bit of fun with each other. So I just think it's just not taking things so seriously all the time.
SPEAKER_04:You know, that's I just wrote that down. I actually wrote down those exact words, don't take life too seriously. I think that's that's a great bit of advice. I don't I I used I still live like that now. I always live like that. And and when you feel those, the time when you don't when you do start taking it too seriously, that's when you feel the pressure, that's when you lash out of people, that's when you, you know, so that's when you become a bad leader.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean I I I can I can vouch for that. I worked with Neil, it didn't take me very soon.
SPEAKER_02:Fair point.
SPEAKER_04:Okay, people love working for you because of that. Um, so listen, I I've just written down, I'm just gonna quit so on the leadership stuff, be authentic, be human. We've heard that lots of times. Yeah, empower and trust your team. Um, one thing I've written down here because it kept coming up is have courage. You talked about stepping outside your comfort zone, you talked about pushing yourself forward, about saying no to having courage and then having fun. So I think there's five great uh tips there. So let's let's go on to just fire a couple of quick answers, quick questions and answers at you just to wrap up. So Bertie, you go first.
SPEAKER_03:Uh leadership role model.
SPEAKER_01:Um can I say the name?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, of course you can.
SPEAKER_01:Most people would disagree. Uh uh, Bruce Ross is one of my leadership role models.
SPEAKER_03:And and why?
SPEAKER_01:Because I had uh working with him for that year just to see just to see him run a business that he the size of the business he did and and the pressures and focus, but have fun on the way. I just learnt a lot from him, things that I still use now. Um, and not and again, to my I know I've got to be quick on this. No, not everybody's gonna love your leadship style. Some people will think I'm great, some people won't stand me at all. And I and but it's what you get out of that person. But yeah, he is one of mine.
SPEAKER_04:And he was uh basically for those people who don't know, Bruce Ross was a general manager of one of the services businesses within uh IBM UK, and about three years ago was CIO worldwide, CIO of the year across the globe, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and he's still a good friend and mentor as well. But again, to our point earlier, I've got a lot of people like you know that that you go to for different things and that I've seen role models in different ways.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. Now, second question. If you were gonna gift a book on leadership to anyone, uh, or new leader, perhaps, what would be the one book you'd go to and say you must read this as a new leader?
SPEAKER_01:Oh wow. Do you know? I'll be completely honest with you. I I struggle with some of those leadership type books. That's just my personal view. Sorry, everybody. I I don't think I could pick a leadership book, to be fair. I've started a few, and I just yeah, I I think, yeah, just not for me.
SPEAKER_04:Well, let me expand the question then. What what book would you gift to maybe someone in your team? Or what book have you gifted the most?
SPEAKER_01:What book have I gifted the most? That's a really hard question. Um oh, I mean, I really like um Cheryl Sandberg's book of Lean It. I mean, I I do really like that book. If I that's something that I read that and thought, oh yeah, get that, I get that. And a good few of us read that all at a similar time, actually. There's another book called Presence, and I can't remember who that's from, but some of the things we've touched on today, um, having confidence, um, you know, sort of backing yourself, and that was a really good book as well. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_03:So let's go a slightly different level on that. Rather than the book, what about a quote? Is there a leadership quote that you'd want to leave with the audience that's watching us here today?
SPEAKER_01:I think your career, I can't believe I'm about to say it, you know, your career is a marathon, not a sprint. Um, but it honestly always sticks in my mind, and it's really helped me in in certain decisions that I've made, maybe sometimes just to slow down a bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Okay, all right. Bruce is getting good rating here, isn't he?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, is he? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I'm gonna we just asked two two more questions. If there was one major must and one major must not of two of leadership, what would they be? Sorry, if there's one major must, you know, if you were gonna talk to a leader about what I think we maybe we've covered this with some of the other points, but there was one major must, you must make sure you do this as a leader, and there was a you must make sure you do not do this as a leader. What would those two things be?
SPEAKER_01:I think it goes be authentic, I think that's critical. And I think um I think you must not, I'd say, oh gosh, that's a tough one. Uh it goes back to sort of trusting your team, like always have your team's back in a way.
SPEAKER_04:It's a really interesting thing.
SPEAKER_03:I guess I'd turn that into a must not, then I guess that would be around micromanaging. Don't micromanage. Yeah, or is that in parallel?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, don't throw them under throw them under the bus. Don't throw them under the bus. All out a few leaders that have done that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. No, every everything the team does that's good is it was all down to them. And everything the team does that was bad, it was down to the team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And here comes another bus.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so look, I'd that would be brilliant. We've captured loads and loads of great information there. Um, Albert, look, I'll I'll hand over to you to kind of do a bit of a wrap-up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, listen before you do your wrap-up. What book would you recommend then? Because that would be good. I'd be interested to say, because there's so many out there, so many, and I struggled with you. So, what was is there a book that you would say, honestly, Carmina? Read that.
SPEAKER_04:So the book I give to when I start coaching leaders, and I coach a lot of leaders, um, the first book I give to people these days is Joco Willink's book, which is called Extreme Ownership. And we actually did we actually did a podcast on it, I don't know, however long ago it was. Um, but actually, I'll tell you what, I'll get your address and I will send you it. Okay, thanks to me there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but you'll have to get it quick. Which address?
SPEAKER_04:Um But no, so that's mine. That's a good good question, Albert. What would yours be?
SPEAKER_03:But that but but that that's a good one when we just talked earlier about what when it goes wrong in the team. This book would be a great thing for you to read. What would mine be? Really sad, right? Because we're going back a long time. I would still give people the one-minute manager. That's my I would still give people the one-minute manager, Ken Blanchard. I've got it in my bookcase there because that's and I've got it up there. I would still, it's still true today as it was then.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And and the key phrase that I I use with doesn't matter what level of leader I work with. The one thing that I take away from that book, and I keep saying to people is as a leader and a manager, is only do the things that only you can do. And it's such an important thing to remember every single time because lots of reasons, but we won't go down that road now.
SPEAKER_03:Guys, listen, really, really good session today. Really happy. So glad that you came and joined us, Carmina. One of the amongst the things I've written down, I don't normally regret much. I try not to regret anything. I've written down a regret, and my only regret is I never worked for you. Oh my regret is I never worked for you because it sounds like I'm missing out. I'll send it through. I'll send it through. And there's no guarantee, right? You'll take a look at it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, yeah, good interview process.
SPEAKER_03:Carmina, it's been an absolute pleasure having you here. Um, I hope the team have enjoyed it, and uh, I I have a suspicion we might get back together again at some other point in time. So thank you very much for joining us. Um guys, I'm gonna hand back to Neil to do our normal close off.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, okay. I'll just quickly do the please subscribe, please give us a thumbs up, please leave us comments, and uh we look forward to seeing you in the next uh episode.
SPEAKER_03:But we're not we're not far away, it's December in a few days' time, so I guess we could say enjoy the festive season. With the with the two other families you're allowed to mix with, have a great time. Carmina, anything to you before we close?
SPEAKER_01:I just want to say a massive thank you. Um, you guys doing this for me. I mean, you were two leaders that everybody wanted to work for, to be fair, and we've all learned something from you in our careers, people that have had the uh privilege to work for you. So, amazing, thank you for doing this. It's it's great, and thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome, great, have a great weekend. Take care. Bye. Hope you enjoyed that episode and took away some great tips. Before you sign off, please take a minute to give us a like or a rating on the podcast. It helps us to be able to gauge whether we're doing the right things. We've got a few episodes lined up for the festive break, so please subscribe and you'll get notified of those as we publish them. Until then, all the best.
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