LEADERS Managing Their EMPLOYEES CAREERS (# 1-24)

Part two in our two-part of Managing Careers.
In this episode we discuss the what, how and when of actions and techniques to help manage the careers of your employees. Sure, they own their careers - but we as Leaders have a responsibility to support and coach them to maximise the returns for them, us and the company overall.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Laws and regulations are changing by the day. We get it. And an ADP we're here to help guide you with up-to-the-minute compliance expertise.com.

SPEAKER_02 0:20

Hey guys, welcome back to Leadership Detective. Good to have you back with us here again. This is the second part of our two-part on managing careers. We've already covered in a previous episode about managing your own career as a leader. So this episode now is about how you as a leader should be managing the careers of your employees. Look, hopefully, you're already doing something. But if we give you a couple more tips on things you're not doing and areas you're not focused on, then that's great. So listen in and all the best in helping your employees make the best of their careers. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

So good to see you again. How are we doing? Yeah, good, not bad, not bad. You well? Having a good day today? I've had a good day so far, yeah. I have to be honest, you know, I'm getting a little tired of lockdown and being in front of the screen and stuff, but it's a bit ironic really when we're recording a video for people to watch on a screen. Yeah, yeah. But no, I actually, yeah, pretty good day. And um I've been uh had a good start to the day, you know, nice run. It was beautiful out there this morning. Amazing sunrise this morning. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

How about you? I've been a bit more boring than that, actually. I've been enjoying looking at stocks today, actually. I'm interested in seeing what's happening with stocks with all this vaccine news, and it's quite interesting to see what happens, yeah, and how the reaction of people so suddenly into some of that stuff. So interesting looking at what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:57

So yeah, true. I mean, it yeah, yeah, that's um some of it's very knee-jerk, yeah, not very strategic thinking with some of the uh decisions that seem to be going on in the markets at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Exactly. It's a bit tempting actually to want to go and play around with a few things, even just for a bit of sport. I mean, it's not like you and I have got millions that we're juggling with on the stock market, right? But it's nice just to uh understanding how it all works.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

No, it's true. So, so what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Well, when we met on the last one, which is now out there, we talked about leaders managing their career.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

Another side to that equation, right?

SPEAKER_04 2:32

So the other side to that equation is them being leaders, them being leaders and managing their people's career, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Okay, um, so I think that's a good topic for us to talk about, and and there is a bit of work for people to be doing there as leaders. Question is are they, could they, and should they?

SPEAKER_04 2:49

And and I guess there's two markets for this uh video. One of them is for the leaders and how they can be better at managing people's career, yeah, the other one is for the employees for how what they should expect from their managers, and for which for which the leaders might not thank us. And you know, I I I know this is a really this is a this is a great topic to talk about, and I know that you're particularly um passionate about this, but also you're particularly good at this. Oh, thank you. So I thought I'd just let you lead with this one because I I would say I've I understood the theory of it and I was pretty I was okay at managing, but I wouldn't say I personally that I was the best. I'm great at giving people advice on it, you know, like I am on these things. Um uh but um I think some people would say, you know, you know, Neil, you did a great job managing my career, but I think it wasn't, I probably didn't pay as much attention to it as I should have done, uh, because I was just focused on selling as much as possible.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Maybe what I would say though, whilst we're on that topic, is what you were really good at was motivating for people to exceed their own expectations and and to really go for it now. And the other side of that equation, us saying, guys, it isn't all about today only. We're saying take a longer range look and just don't think about your job, think about your career.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

So yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's true. And I think that's I think that's actually an interesting point is um one of the roles of leaders when it comes to career management of your people is to get them to see what's possible, yeah. And see what because you know, people don't see what they're capable of, but you can see something in them that they might not have seen.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Yeah, yeah. And I think I think there's a couple of things that as a leader you've got some view on. One of them is you've got the bigger picture, you don't look only inside your team, you are probably a peer to people who are other members of the wider team. So you've got the bigger picture where someone's career could go. It doesn't have to be with you, and it probably isn't with you, right? So that's an important thought is that the career might mean moving sideways or or upwards in a different direction, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

And and so now we're we're talking about leaders managing the career of their people, and I think we need to think of that in the context of big organizations and smaller organizations as well, for the purposes of the people who listen to this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

So, what what would be what would be some of your tips then? Well, my first tip would be to make sure it's on your agenda, to make sure it's part of what you do, maybe not every week, but at least once a month and definitely once a quarter. You have an agenda built in with you and your peers and your leadership team on taking a look at the people in your business, how are they doing, and what you're doing to help develop and move them through. Then you bring it down a level to be looking at your own particular employees and make sure you're managing their career forward. So, first of all, there is a view where you're looking at a business and team level with your peers, and then you're looking at your own team and saying, Am I doing what I could be doing to support someone's career? This is an important point to support someone's career, it's their career, right? Just as we talked last time, as a leader, your career is your responsibility. As the individual, their career is their responsibility, but you are the supporting function in that.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

So there's an interest. So you're saying that um it's really important for the leadership team to regularly talk about the people within the business and the careers of those people and the development of those people, um, and that that should happen monthly or quarterly as a minimum.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Yeah, I'd say quarterly as an absolute minimum. And the reason I say a team level is you are not the only one who's got visibility of how people are performing. Somebody else might have some really valid input for you, somebody else might have a great opportunity that one of your people could step into. And it's a very difficult thing to do as a leader because you might be promoting to get rid of your best people, right? That ain't an easy thing to do because the people that are helping make you successful, make your team buzz, are the ones that you might be planning to move on. But you know, that creates space to let the next people come up.

SPEAKER_04 7:27

Yeah, I and actually funny enough, I was talking about that to someone about that today, is is um if you don't create that space, then the people below have nowhere to go. Yeah, so they then uh go somewhere. Okay, and actually, with a lot of the businesses I work with, I would say they review their people once a year. Uh quarterly would be uh exceptional.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

Um so who should who should own the the career and the development of career plans for the individuals within your team?

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Well, I got in principle, I think the individual owns it. But I think you've got to build into your management system that there is a checkpoint with your individuals. So even if we said that was a half-year review and a full-year review, Neil, I I we owe that to them and we owe it to our business and to our peers to make sure you've got that built into your management system. And and and this whole thing about a half-year review and a full-year review is as much talking about how well they've performed and what they've contributed, but that conversation should also have the forward looking about and what next in your career.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

And and I just want to um touch on why this is so important for a moment, actually. And we've had two indications as to why this is so important in the last well, in some of our interviews. Um, so with the millennials, you know, one of their top uh items for staying with a company was that they're growing and developing and they can see a career in that company. Yeah, and the the second reason is you know, one of the six human needs, and one of the most important six human needs is the um is growing, is the need to grow, is the need to expand and become more than you are today. Yeah, and so you're addressing a human need and you're addressing you know the demands of people that want to stay in your business by investing in this.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah, yeah. And and look, we we we talked about this career thing before. Some people might say, I don't want to do anymore, I'm happy doing what I'm doing, I love my job, I just want to keep doing it. That's fine. There are other people that might want further progression or change or whatever, and they might not feel as comfortable bringing that to you as you are as opening the conversation. But having opened the conversation, if they're not receptive to it and they're not keen to look to progress, that's okay. You'd have to force it, but you do need to keep some level of movement in your team.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

So let's look at the the different types of people then that you might have in your team as you're managing a career.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

So you've got the you know, the the high flyers or the ones that think they're the high flyers, the top performers who want their career to go at a stellar rate.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Um, so what would your recommendation be on how you man how you manage that career as a leader?

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Um, I think you've got to make sure you're giving them enough challenge to keep them interested in what they're doing today. But in terms of managing their career, I think you've got to present them with challenges that helps them grow and explore into other areas. So they're the kind of people that you might also make sure you give a mentor to, that you give a sponsor to, right? Because they want that and they want maybe somebody else to sound things off rather than just listening to their own boss. That again, that's fine, that's not a problem. But I think you've got to keep them challenged. Um, because if they were to move on, the challenges would be bigger. How will they manage those? Give them a taste of it.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

And the mentor is an interesting one, actually, and it is something that comes up regularly in conversations that we have is that people really value being invested in, yeah, and then they invest back in the company. And one of the things they really value is having a good mentor who's not in their line of business, but has experience of the business, yeah, help them grow as an individual.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

Um, so that that's a tip, really, because it's free, you know.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

Yeah, yeah. I think I I think another angle on that, Neil, is shadowing. Shadowing is a really good thing to do, is to allow somebody to go and work with someone else for a day or two or whatever to see how they perform their role, what they do, what happens in a typical, I mean, if there is there a typical day, but it gives them a chance to experience that. So, for instance, if somebody aspires to becoming a manager or a leader, let them go work with a manager or a leader for a day.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

They might not want to do it after that.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

You're dead right. They might come back and go, Whoa, I love what I do, right? I'm great, I'm happy. Or I want to go technical. I thought I wanted to go this way, but I don't think is that what you do all day? No, yeah, yeah. Is that what you do all day?

SPEAKER_04 12:08

You you have to deal with all these people issues.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

I tell you what, I remember coming through as a as a as a professional was when I became a manager, the things that I thought happened automatically, I realized it was my manager doing it. I didn't know that, right? You know, I thought it was HR process and all that. No, it was your boss taking the action.

SPEAKER_04 12:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

I would have found that out if I'd have shadowed, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 12:30

So so you've got this group of people that are the top performers and focusing on those. So, and and I'm guessing, you know, my experience of that is you need to have regular growth and career reviews with them, because if you're not, they'll think you don't care or you they'll think you've forgotten about them. So they need to see regularly that you are thinking about them. And and by the way, one of the things I've also noticed is this is where crucial conversations or straight talk comes in. Because if someone's got an aspiration that's up here and they think they're top talent, they think that actually it's the responsibility of a leader to help manage that aspiration. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's it's too easy to go, yeah, of course, I'll give you all this training, I'll introduce you to a mentor, and and actually, you know that it they really haven't got the capability to deal with that.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah, you're right. It's a difficult conversation. I'm not saying you'll only have it once, but you'll have it a lot more clearly if you take it on and don't pretend. It's a really good point, Neil, because you and I are probably experienced where, yeah, we'll just let it run, and then there's nothing, there's nothing but frustration, right? With this person saying it's not going anywhere. Guess what? It was never going anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 13:44

Yeah, and and and everyone's frustrated around them.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yeah, or you're actually pointing out where there's some real need for development that they haven't realized, right?

SPEAKER_04 13:53

Yeah, so exactly, yeah, because the rose-tinted glasses were on when they were looking at the role they thought they could go for.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Um, so if we look at the other end of the scale, then so people are just happy doing their day job, they're just happy getting on with delivering on what's needed, on selling what's needed, on just doing a good job. They've got they don't want to be a manager, they don't want to specialize, they just want to get on and do a good job. What would your advice be on career management or or helping those people?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

The first thing that comes to my head is not wanting a career, if a career means progression of role, doesn't mean they don't want or need to grow. So just because they don't want to move job doesn't mean you don't want to challenge them and give them more responsibility and test them and push them harder. Because let's say they're the top technical specialist in the team, that doesn't mean they couldn't be sharing that capability with other people. That doesn't mean they can't be supporting other people that need their expertise rather than just plodding along every day. And by the way, most people get pretty fired up by that, right? So don't assume somebody indicating, and maybe not saying it that clearly, they don't want a career that they don't want to grow because the two things are not the same.

SPEAKER_04 15:15

100%. So you can still develop someone into being better than they are today, or help them do you can't make someone, but you can help someone develop and better than they are today, without that, and that can still be a development conversation without it being about where's your next promotion.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Yeah, yeah. But you've got to recognize as well, there's a reasonable chance that even if they want to stay where they are, they want to see some progression in what their earnings might be, or in what their rewards might be, or in what their recognition could be. Because often people that really love what they do still like the um the recognition of that. They still need is is plaudits the right word? Probably is, yeah. They probably need those plaudits to still keep telling them they are very technical and very good at what they do.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Actually, but some of my some of the top performers I've had over the years were in that category. You know, some of the people who were the best people in my sales teams uh were in that category where they they didn't want to progress in their career. I mean, in sales it's a difficult one because people don't want to progress because they're going to earn less as a sales manager or sales director than as a salesman. Um, but you you know, you have to you have to make that decision as to what you want to do as a role.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

But did that mean that those people didn't want the outstanding achievement award?

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Oh no, no, they wanted to be the ones on Golden Circle or on the 100% club or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Right. 100%. So so then there I think there's a category after that as well. So those people you kind of develop in and go, and there's a category of people that you know are better than they think they are. So they're not the top talent guys that are, or they're not the the guys that are chopping at your heels every single day of the week going, where's my next promotion? Where's my I want to meet my but your boss or whatever? You've got this group that are just doing a great job, and you know they've got the ability, but they can't see it. Yeah, so how would how do you see a career conversation going with those type of people?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

They're the toughest, right? They're the toughest because they're the ones that I think need the most coaching about do you want a career? Well, what does that mean? I don't know what what does it mean? Do I want a career? And therefore, what am I putting myself up for? Because there's a reason they haven't pushed themselves forward, and you need to kind of understand what that is. Maybe it's just a lack of confidence in their own ability, maybe it's because they don't want what might come with it, right? I actually love my job, I want to get on, but if you put me to the next level, does that mean I don't get overtime anymore? Does that mean you're going to call upon me for support to help my peers? I don't want to do that. So they're a tough group to work with, and I think it's it's an interesting one actually.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

And and to be honest, though I found that women fell into that category more often than men as well, because their abilities they were they were quieter at putting their hand up and saying, I really want a promotion, than men were. I know you and I did quite a lot of diversity training on making sure we were bringing ladies through, yeah, and making sure they were putting themselves forward for promotion boards and stuff, because typically they wouldn't. Yeah. Um, and you know, and and some of them were you know are and are the best leaders and uh managers out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

And that's a good that's a good point that you make, right? So just for everybody listening, guys, research has shown this, right? This is not just the Neil and Albert view. Yeah, research has shown females previously, I don't know what it's like right now, here and now today, but previously were less likely to push themselves forward and brag about what they could do, have done, and and their their uh capabilities than a male candidate may have done. A female candidate was very likely to wait until they've got the full proof and evidence and proven it enough times before they go, yes, I can. And a guy would probably go, yep, I can do that, let's go. Right. So that's research has shown that. I think things may have changed a lot recently because there's been a lot of promotion of women and a lot of look at the the gender and diversity gap. And I think that's absolutely right, but it is still worth leaders remembering that there might be differences on the way genders respond to these approaches.

SPEAKER_04 19:40

And it's a really interesting point as well, because poor leadership is where you take the easy option, which is the guys that are you know beating their chest, they're in the bar having beers in the evening with you, they're telling you how great they are, and the easy thing is to push them forward for promotion. But actually, that even if they're not the best suited, um because they're like you, maybe, or because you want to get them out of the business, you want to move them into you want to get them out of your uh team. So I think you do have to be brave and do the right thing. But but to do that, I mean, one of the fundamentals of this, just think about it, is you've got to know your team.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting actually, what you just brought to mind, Neil. And look, the the two guys I'm about to reference might actually be watching this, I don't know. But I remember when I had to make a vital change in the team that I was running for one of the key department leads, and it was kind of assumed that there was an air apparent that was going to go into that job, who was one of it in the team, and I believed it was a different one who was in my team. And I remember sitting down with this other guy and going, you know, if I was to go as part of my succession plan, and we'll come on to that because everything's a dead key, right? As part of my succession plan, I think you were a really good candidate to come in and do this job. And he was like, Whoa, really? I can't do that job. As opposed to another guy who's banging on the door, going, It's me, it's me, it's me. Yeah, what actually happened in that scenario, guys, is the guy that I felt was the right one that I also got other views from other people also agreed, and we put him in the job. And he did it for a number of years after I left, and he was very successful at that job. All right, so there's a great example you've just made, you know, just referenced about think about who to pull through. He would never have pushed himself forward in the way that the other candidate was doing so, but he was, in my view, at the time, was the better candidate.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

So let's talk about that word succession, then, because I think that's a really important point to get to. Because again, I you know, I've had numerous conversations with leaders over the last month or so, and I've I've asked about their succession planning and their boss's succession planning, and and I you do get blank stares because it isn't common practice in most businesses to think that way, they deal with the problem when it arises rather than having succession planning and developing people for the next role. So, what would your advice be on succession planning?

SPEAKER_02 22:08

Again, it's the responsibility of the individual to make sure that they are having a succession plan for their role. Because chances are, if you're a leader, somebody moving into your job is moving up into quite a reasonable position. Hopefully, the position they're vacating needs to be there. So they need to have a succession plan for themselves. But you need to have a succession plan for yourself that says, if I was not here tomorrow for planned reasons or otherwise, who would likely move into my job? And one of the reasons it's key to have the plan, not to think about it on the morning that it happens, is because you might need to do some preparation for the person that's likely to move in there. We come back to that scenario I just talked about, and I thought the guy I would felt was capable to move in. I also felt the other guy who wasn't at the time needed some work before they could move in. They moved into that job some years later and did a great job of it, but they needed some further development first. So that development can only happen if someone's name is there as Neil Thalburn is ready to move into this job in six months' time, but we need him to do A, B, and C because you can do go do A, B, and C.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

So, and then there's another thing that comes to mind I've just written down here, and I used to advise people I was mentoring, and I still do this now, is when they're doing career planning and you're talking to your boss about what you want to do next in your career. One of the biggest problems in your boss's head is how am I going to fix the fill this hole that this guy's leading? So, one of the bits of advice I give people uh still today is make it easy for them. Yeah, come up with a plan for them, work out who's the right person to step in there or how is that workload going to be handled if you move to the next level or the next part of your career?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah. And and look, there's another thing here that both Neil and I shared over the years, right? We loved the people we worked with. Now, in that case, not all of them, but most of an extent. But you know, in that case, do you not think one of the people you work with today deserves to get your job? Or would you like someone else to bring someone in from left field and go right above all of your guys? So you've got guys that have been positioning, working hard, probably deserve it. But if you didn't help that happen, somebody else might be brought in after you move out. And you've you've disenfranchised your guys that deserved that. So you owe it to your people to have a good succession plan if they are deserving to be in that role. None of them might be deserving, by the way. None of them might be deserving.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

No, let's just look at that for a sec, because there's um there's there's we're kind of moving off the topic a little bit, but there's a there's an advantage to bringing in external candidates, external experience, sure, that kind of thing. Sure, and there's also dangers to promoting from within, and you know, and if you corporates you can promote from within to in different teams, but in smaller organizations, you could end up managing the people or leading the people or being responsible for people that you were appear with the you know the week before. So um that's something to consider as well because that's a tough thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

It's a tough gig. That's a really tough gig.

SPEAKER_04 25:36

It is really tough to manage people that you were a colleague of yesterday, yeah. Or to lead people because you're now a director and now you're leading people who were your peer managers.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah, you're right, it's a tough gig. And and and then it could be a really fulfilling gig if the people that you do end up leading go, yeah, I could see that, I could see why you're in that job. And hey, you know, glad to work with you and support you. But it is a tough gig. I think I think you're right, Neil. I think there's more risk to it than there is upside, right? To promote from within a current team, I think there's more risk to it.

SPEAKER_04 26:10

Yeah, well, there's there's risk and there's benefit because the benefit is uh that you know, I was just working with a business recently that did it, and um, the benefit is they know the business, they know the people, they know the business, they know the all the problems internally and all the ways to get around things, they know they know the business. Uh the downside is it's difficult and it takes time to get your people to follow you if if they were your colleagues yesterday.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah. Um I think I think the other side of that they know the business is they may also have too many preconceived that that's about that's the other side.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

That's that's the flip side. But so, but then bringing someone in from outside, um, or knowing someone who could be your succession is especially again in small businesses, it kind of probably works better than in bigger businesses because it's easier to bring people in. Yeah, is um if you've got two or three candidates, you can say, Look, when I move into this role, here's two or three people who could walk into this job tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. Um, and and they're my choice, by the way, because I'm gonna be managing them, or they're my that you know, I will recommend one of these and and I'll stand by them or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Um, so so making it easy. So, was it about and and planning your own succession, not just leaving it to your boss to work at how they fill the hole?

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Absolutely right. And it's it you've got to feel it as a personal responsibility that that is part of managing your own career, is managing your succession plan as well as managing where you want to go to, right? You know, that's only fair and only right.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

So, what other advice have you got?

SPEAKER_02 27:46

Um the other one, I think, is if there is opportunity to rotate employees around jobs so they can get a feel for a job, right? You could do things like you know, people being off for a period of time, and you could allow someone to step in and try it, right? So give people a chance to try and buy, right? Because they might not know.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Actually, and that's done a lot in the forces. You see that a lot in the police, in the military, is you will be given a probationary position to see if you can do it and to see whether you like it.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

That's interesting, actually, because both Ian Chappell, our retired police officer, and Zoe Bowman, our uh fire and rescue um manager, crew manager, both talked about what they called acting up.

SPEAKER_03 28:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

I mean, I would have called acting up people who are misbehaving, but they all they both talked about acting up, about putting somebody in to do the job as if they were appointed to see how they managed it. Yeah, that's a really good thing to do.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

And the other so one of the things I find interesting when I'm talking to managers about career management, yeah, but I I don't when I sit down and do development plans or career plans, I don't know what to do with them. You know, if they don't know what to do or if they want to develop, and I I just don't know what to do. And I think there's, you know, I'll we'll send them on a course, we'll give them some training, you know, which is okay, but that's not really career development, that's skills development. Uh, unless there's a specific skill you need for the next role. Um but I was talking to someone uh recently about things like sabbaticals to go and develop skills in and and and actually Ian the uh the retired police officer said exactly the same thing, didn't he?

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

He went and did a sabbatical with the government, yeah. Um so that kind of thing can be a really good career development for your people, and it shows you're really investing in them.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Yeah, yeah. I mean, do you know what would be really good is to know that you've got employees that when you sit down with them to talk about their careers, that they've got to make that happen.

SPEAKER_04 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Now that could be really good, right? They're sitting there saying, look, I think what I want to do next is A, B, or C. I don't know how to go about it. What can I do to kind of progress that? How where can I get some sponsorship? Where can I get some visibility of that? And then you're a facilitator to that rather than the person having to come up with the ideas.

SPEAKER_04 30:17

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I I I agree, yeah, but it, you know, and but there will be people who don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

They don't know.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

Um, and so you kind of have to show them things that they might uh get really interested in.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Um, so I mean, I think there's the most important thing that you said at the beginning is uh leaders have got to take responsibility and ownership for the development, growth, careers of their people.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

It's not something you wait for HR to come along and say, let's put together our career development plans now, once you know, because it has to be loaded into some system. It should be a conversation that at any point someone should be able to tap you on the shoulder as a leader and go, Bob over there, what's his career aspirations? Or Steve over there, what's his career aspirations, or Tina over there, what's their career? And you should know like that without having to think twice about it. Yeah, and and if you don't, then please take away from this video to go and do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:19

Yeah, come back to what we said on the last video, guys, when we were talking about a leader managing their own career. We said make sure you make it known to at least your boss and to other senior people what your aspirations are.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Now we're on the other side of that equation, right? Make sure that you know the career aspirations of the people below you, just as you said, Neil. And if they haven't told you, go and ask them. Go and ask them. Go and spend time with them. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 31:43

So um any other thoughts before we close out?

SPEAKER_02 31:48

No, I think I think we've covered it pretty well, right? Make sure you're taking responsibility, try and build into your management system so that it's something that you're doing on a regular basis, at least half yearly, annually at minimum. Making sure you're giving opportunities and growth opportunities for people, whether they want to stay in job or progress in their careers. Making sure that you you work with your peers as well, so they got visibility, you got visibility of their people. Um, I think that pretty much covers it, right? And and succession planning. I I I think what we've just talked through in probably 25-30 minutes or so, there's a lot of material there, right? But it just shows as a leader, you've got a big responsibility here that is nothing to do with running your the business of your team. This is all about your people.

SPEAKER_04 32:32

Correct. It's all about your people. But remember what we said about the motivation of millennials and the the growth of your team is the the PL return on it is significant because you don't lose people, you don't have to replace skills, and you grow skills. So okay, let's uh hopefully that's been useful to everyone. Thank you for listening, Albert. Thanks for all that.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Uh really good. Thank you, guys. Good luck with your careers out there and uh and hope you can progress it. If you need any advice, you know we're here.

SPEAKER_04 33:00

Yeah, and let us know. Leave comments below, let us know what you took out of this. We got lots of great comments from the last video about your own personal career. Please give us a thumbs up and subscribe if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

Fantastic. All the best, guys. See you again in the next one. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

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SPEAKER_00 33:54

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