Join or Die with Reed Endersbe

We visit with Reed Endersbe regarding the Robert Putnam documentary, "Join or Die." Putnam, the author of the best-selling, "Bowling Alone," argues that the epidemic of loneliness is having an adverse impact on the mental health of Americans and the lack of joining civic organizations is likewise impacting the health of American democracy. 

Transcript

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Welcome to the Kindness Chronicles where we hope to inject the world with a dose of the Minnesota nice. That it desperately needs Steve Brown in studio. Hello, Steve. Hey, KG has a game tonight. So he's, uh, he's unable to join us, but we've got a great guy on my, uh, my friend from work, Reed Endersby. Hello, Reed. Hello, gentlemen. How are we? Fantastic. Uh, some of you might know Reed from the, uh, Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries podcast. I know people listen to both this and that. It's a crossover? This is, it could be a crossover. Kind of, yeah. We'll have Reed thinks if he's, if he's satisfied with how this one goes. But I wanted to have Reed on because on Monday of this week, Steve Brown and I attended an event that, uh, that Reed put on at the Masonic Heritage Center. It was a documentary called Join or Die. Steve, why don't you give us a description of the Join or Die documentary. Join or Die documentary. It centers on the work of social scientist Robert D Putnam, whose research on civil disengagement has been influential in understanding the decline in community participation in the United States. Directed by Pete and Rebecca Davis, the film highlights Putnam's concept of social capital, which he explores in his well known book, Bowling Alone, which I've begun reading actually. Oh, wow. Uh, through interviews and personal stories, the documentary argues that societal health and democracy benefit from active. Civic engagement, whether through clubs, volunteer organizations, that kind of stuff, groups, community groups. The film underscores the importance of joining as a way to combat social disconnection and to bridge divides across various social and political spectrums. So this was a program that Reed put on for, uh, a couple of hundred people at this event, uh, at the Masonic Heritage Center. And, Reid, just tell us about what it was that compelled you or interested you in putting on this program. So, it was brought to my attention that Robert Putnam's work, Bowling Alone, he has another book also called The Upswing, which is somewhat of a follow up to his studies that were showcased in Bowling Alone. But it was, it crossed my path, it crossed my radar that he was part of this documentary that had been put to film. And knowing the premise of bowling alone, it's a very powerful thing that he showcased in that through his many years of research. We immediately felt compelled to look into this more and see if this is something that we could possibly host and share the message of this with a broader audience just outside of the Masonic Fraternity and really more for the community at large. the thing that I was impressed by more than anything, you know, here we are living in the, uh, the land of divisiveness. And, uh, the fact that you had something that Hillary Clinton. And Senator Mike Lee from Utah agreed on, tells me that this is something that's worthy of, discussion in a big way. it is an apolitical topic and the facts are the facts. People just do not join organizations like they, had in the past. I think that the documentary is actually available maybe on Netflix. Yes, it did actually just drop on Netflix a couple of weeks ago. And that was news to us because originally we thought we had a very Exclusive screening, which we still did, but to see that it was on Netflix was exciting for them. I'm very happy for the producers and for everyone involved in this, but it is now streaming, available. Highly recommend anyone listening to this check out Bowling, check, check out Join or Die. Yeah. The work of Bowling Alone showcased as soon as they can. What I thought was interesting is a couple things that I noted in this, and you and I talked about it a little bit after, but it's kind of depressing showing that. About at 1960, in the event of television, they noticed a decline in joining and group activation, you know, a group, uh, participation, and then, uh, it just has steadily declined since then. It got worse at the arrival of the internet and of cell phones and stuff. So it seemed kind of depressing, like, uh, we're headed for trouble. But, then, uh, Uh, he went and showed the graph prior to 1960 and showed the explosion of why people joined groups. And that was a very divisive era in our country and politically in the 30s or something like that. Yeah. So I thought that was really great. And like, and actually I should tell you in listening, I'm listening to the book, not reading it, listening to it. Okay, good. It's a, we're not readers. I love listening to books, but, um, It's a revised version and it kind of, it kind of gives you, there's a little bit of hope angle in it explains kind of more of what we heard in the documentary so, um, I think the book is a little more like, wake up, alert everyone, bowling alone, it's trouble, and the movie really depicts all of it in a really good way. Well and what I liked about it was, you know, they kind of, they kind of left that part toward the end. Yeah. And what I found to be hopeful is it's almost like as a, as a society, we have to bottom out before we kind of get our S H I, you know, so on together and, and do something about it. And that seems to be exactly what happened in the, the, the late twenties, early thirties. Are we rock bottom? John, are we, is this, is the Kindness Chronicles the result of rock bottom? Is this where we go from here? We try to go up? You know, I think that there might be something to that. I mean, you know, Reid, can you talk a little bit, I know that you talk about the fact that there is a, an epidemic of, uh, of loneliness out there in, in your studies. And I know that you've become kind of a student of this topic. And the fact that the National Institute on Health claims that there is a, an epidemic of loneliness and the impact that that's having on people's health and that it's the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So on and so forth. Which is a crazy thought considering we think we're all connected because we've all got phones, but really we're all siloed. Yeah, we're siloed. So tell us a little bit about what you've learned through your investigation. Well, it is crazy to think that it's on par with the equivalent of that of a bad health choice. But the, the loneliness crisis and epidemic continues and it certainly was a thing before COVID, but that Just how, well, it accelerated it too, and magnified an already existing challenge in the world with people are living in their own little silo. It's, they have their device, you don't have to leave the house or the apartment anymore, we don't know our neighbors, we don't know who lives around us, our sense of any sort of civic or community engagement is quite honestly an abstract. Concept to so many people these days because they just don't think that way. We're very much enveloped in our own world and David Brooks was featured in the join or die documentary and he wrote a book called the art of knowing someone and really showcased an important aspect of the social media side of things that we equate to online or virtual contact with others as somehow meaningful or authentic, but it really isn't. It's hollow, it's transactional, and it really does not fully address the, the need that we have as humans to connect from one person to the next or a group to the next. And he makes a very good point. David Brooks did that artificial intelligence is going to do a lot for us in the future. It will replace humans at many apps. But if you want your company, your fraternal organization, anything that you're involved in, that's people to people, you'd better become exceptionally good at connecting with others. It's, it's crucial. And we are seeing an uptick though, as you had mentioned, Steve, that have we hit the bottom? Well, maybe, but the good news is, well, possibly, but the good news is that in my day to day of my role with Masonic Charities in Grand Lodge, Minnesota, we are seeing a huge influx of young people. That are seeking to connect again. They want to put the phone down. They want to get out and meet quality people and connect again and have a far more authentic set of friends and people that they can count on in this journey of life. Quite honestly, I think they're rediscovering what works for their parents, their grandparents, or someone that has been influential in their lives and are realizing that this hollow, Day to day Instagram, TikTok, that's just over dosing on digital platforms is not the fulfilling It's not fulfilling their lives nearly as much as friends and relationships could be. And you use, you say they want to. I think they're realizing that they need to. I think that they're realizing that their mental, physical health depends on connections with, with people in the real world. You know, and people that aren't with family, for example, that are sincerely isolated, isolated, isolated. It's tough. We went, I mean, during COVID, we witnessed that at the Masonic home. I mean, it was awful. It was the worst time and, and the, the, the loneliness. I am convinced that people died during COVID of, of a broken heart of loneliness, just because it's just so hard on you emotionally. So I do think that there's something to be said about the fact that, you know, there are organizations out there that are. a great place to connect and the fact read that that some people are finding our organization in the purpose of this of of doing the showing wasn't necessarily to promote masonry as much as it was to just promote the health benefits of connecting with people and joining something whatever that might be. Yeah that's a really huge point because when we first organized this community screening I had many people say well is this just an event that you're encouraging people to join the Freemasons? No, to a small extent, okay, if what we offer, friendship, community engagement, and ongoing education, that opportunity to learn something new is appealing to someone, then yes, let's talk. But to your point, yes, this was about identifying something that you're passionate about. It could be a dog rescue, it could be Meals on Wheels, mental health, so many different. Community engagement and groups out there that need volunteers that are doing really good work in the world. And that was the greater goal of our screening, was to really hopefully jumpstart people to think, you know what, yes, it's time to go out and get involved again and do something that's meaningful out there. Because really the big challenge too, across the board right now, is, you know, We all talk about what the world needs, how we might go out and make a difference, but talking about it and actually going out and doing the hard work that's required are two separate things. And that's the disconnect we are really trying to bridge that gap right now. Yeah. When I, I got the invite from you, Reed, it said, um, join or die. I was like, oh boy, Reed really wants me to. To, you know, check into the masons, like, Oh boy, I don't know if I want to be a part of this. I got no choice. Yeah. You know, what does this have to do with the kindness chronicles? And here's what I would say about that. I think that we live in a world where young people, for example, are waiting for somebody to call them to do something or to reach out to them. And to me, I think one way to. To be kind to others is take the time to organize a golf outing or a bowling outing or something like that. One of the things that I am just so amazed by is there's this little place, uh, on the corner of County Road E and White Bear Avenue and it's called the Battleground Cafe. And when you drive by that place at 7 o'clock tonight, the place will be absolutely packed. And it is packed with these people that are in there playing these card games and like Dungeons and Dragons sort of, uh, sort of things. what's interesting is, the cynic and you would go look at a bunch of those dorks, but those dorks are probably connecting with people in a way that's just so healthy for them. once upon a time, during COVID, it was all about playing Fortnite and everything was online, but the in real life thing. is meaningful. Yeah. And Reed, you have this statistic about, people and friends and how many people claim that they don't have a single close friend and the statistic is off the charts. Yes, there was a headline with the Wall Street Journal earlier this year that did a very broad survey of men over 30. And they found that one in four men who are not married or in a committed relationship said that they have no friends at all, no close friends, zero. It wasn't just a couple or a small group, it was the goose egg. And that was also a big motivator in trying to do whatever we can broadly to get the community back together in thinking like this. And to, Steve, I want to also clarify one other thing about the join or die title. Yeah. Many, many confused it with a John Adams Revolutionary Time, but that title, the producers went, they landed on that as the title because Professor Putnam, in his research, showed he has the numbers to back it up. by joining one single group or organization doing just joining one will cut a person's Chances of dying prematurely in half. Yeah by just one crazy The bowling alone title of his book was based on Friends that where they were when a few years back seeing that Bowling numbers were higher, but leagues were down. People were content to go out and do that. Normally team sport, you go out with a group of people and have a lot of fun. They were far more interested in going by themselves, which really, really shocked professor Putnam into thinking, well, wait, what is going on here? The stats out there that we continue to see from the Department of Health and from other, other outlets like the Wall Street Journal and otherwise continue to do these surveys and it's just shocking to see and hear the loneliness crisis is really something that we should take more seriously in any way that we can. And you mentioned that just joining one club can Reduce the, uh, the possibility of a premature death by 50%. So, we just want to be clear that if you join like 25 organizations, you're gonna live forever. Um, or burn out. There's another interesting statistic that how many people have these imaginary friends that are artificial intelligence friends? Ah. Yeah, that's a big one. There's a app out that's called Replica. It's spelled with a K. And it is an AI, artificial intelligence powered app that serves as a virtual friend or sibling. I could not believe the number of, there are millions and millions of users of this app worldwide that are, quite honestly, what else are they seeking? They're seeking someone to talk to, someone to interact with. And it is AI driven, and the number was staggering. It was something like 200 million users worldwide and growing. It's like your friend. It's like a friend you, you, you talk with or text with or whatever. It's, they're encouraging her. Yeah. Can she be good looking? Yeah. There's some people that, yeah, it's like a girlfriend or a boyfriend or whatever. And it, it responds and it's, it asks you questions and asks, how's your day? And like, it's very encouraging and it's very, it's very weird and yeah, we're human. We need that. We, but we need to get it from real people to make it count. I think so. A hundred percent. I'm just going out on a limb. Yeah. Well, we really do. And it's, it's very telling that. That, like to John's point, well, people are waiting for someone to engage them or to say, how are you? it's really important for us to get out of this cycle of just leaning on social media as being, as counting as close enough to engaging with others. It's virtual. It's hollow, it's not authentic, and I, I saw a almost disturbing quote from Heath Ledger from a few years ago, and he said, and I'm paraphrasing this, but it was that people ask you about your job, your car, your whatever you've got going on in life, as if life is just some sort of grocery list and you're checking the boxes, but all too often we fail to ask each other, are you happy, are you happy. How are you? What do you need in your life? How can I be a better friend to you? Just, just a simple check in and I, that really hit me because it really plays on what we're discussing tonight as, as being a truly, it's truly time to connect again as friends and as humans. Well, and I think that takes courage. I think that you have to be a person that has some level of, uh, Courageousness to go, Steve, how can I be a better friend to you? I mean, it sounds just kind of trite, but it's so meaningful. Yeah. I love the idea of asking those kind of questions. When, a person isn't in distress. Because, like, the Robin Williams thing. Everybody's fighting a battle, you just don't know what it is. You know, everybody's got a different battle that they're fighting. By the way, can we plug Civility School? We got a Civility School coming up on November 21st. It's at 6 o'clock at the Masonic Heritage Center. Everyone is welcome to come. It is free of charge. we've got, over a hundred people that have signed up for it. So, uh, if you're a listener and you're interested What's the date again? It's next Thursday, November 21st at six o'clock. And, uh, it will be, uh, conducted by Mr. Endersby and myself. Cool. The dynamic duo. Well, we don't know how dynamic it is. We've got, we were described, and this is, this kind of bothers me, but we were described as, um, Lester Holt and Al Roker. And, um, Oh, come on. If you ever see Reed, Reed is very put together and he's always very dapper. And I kind of feel like Al Roker in that situation. I guess, I guess. I just, it's a little painful, but I'll be okay. Al Roker, that's not a good comparison. I wouldn't compare you to Al Roker. Is that a weight joke? I don't like it. Well, Al Roker is like a skinny guy now. He is not a skinny guy. He lost a whole bunch of weight. Yeah. Uh, it didn't completely take, it didn't take, it didn't stay, it did not stay. Well, in comparison to these two, well, I guess it could always be worse. Right. But I'm really excited about this because we've seen. Some really transformative conversations occur as a result of our civility school presentation. Big picture, we're calling it the civility project because we're all a work in progress, but really talking, especially to the young people and their parents, about why it's so important to be the one to embrace timeless core values of being human. That source of someone who owns the kindness space, who is really looking out for others and looking to connect and something that to your earlier point a few moments ago about. Well, it takes courage, yes, and we run into people across, it doesn't matter how old they are, across the demographic lines of well, you know what, I'm not that, I'm not an outgoing person, or it's a little awkward for me in that situation, but the easiest solution to that is just curiosity. Tell me about your whatever it is. If you meet somebody for the first time and it's that initial awkward small chat Curiosity is the answer to that before you know it. You've made a new friend. You've made a new connection You've had an interesting conversation and It all stemmed around curiosity of starting that dialogue. I want to know what I was just going to say, or you could be like Joey Trebbiani and just go up to him and go, Hey, how you doing? Oh, you're doing no. Okay. I know that. I know the first one went really well. Or do you do the couple of them? Right? I had a couple of them. Yeah. So, Are you retooling each time and kind of building on what works really well? And yeah, we're refining, you know, we're getting feedback. I mean, one of the feedback that we got from the, one of the groups was, let's have more on the manners and etiquette stuff because that's stuff that people can actually take and apply it immediately to, to the way. And we have a lot of fun with it. We have this little segment called be that guy. Don't be that guy. That sounds familiar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have the don't be that guy on the, uh, on the podcast. Well, and to that end, we, I told a friend of mine about what this is all about, and especially on the etiquette side, and he immediately assumed, well, are you just trying to take us back 70 years and do a different time? No, not necessarily. No, we're really trying though to not lose. The ability to pivot per situation that it's especially when we talk to young people There's going to be a certain level of accepted teenage etiquette when there's a pizza party or watching a movie together and it really doesn't matter but when it does come time for the job interview or You're going to a dinner for work when it matters. Yeah when it matters to know the difference Okay, this is where I need to know how to navigate this You How to eat my soup, how to cut my food, how to not look, how to not make a bad impression to be that, to be that guy, or don't be that guy. And those are some fun things that we're helping, especially some of the young people discover and truth be told, and John and I have had this conversation with multiple attendees, many parents and uncles and grown adults came to us afterwards and said, please. Please don't tell my child I told you this, but I learned as much tonight as he did. Well, and, and that's cool. What's funny, and our friend Tyler Moslepica, who's been helping us with this, uh, with this project, he brought up something yesterday that really struck a nerve with me. He said, when it comes to these things like etiquette, there aren't really rules, but there's a code. Yeah. There's like a social code. And this group that's coming on Thursday, a lot of them are baseball players. And in baseball, you've got rules, but you've also got. Yeah. Like when you hit a home run, you do a bat flip, that's breaking the code. You just don't do that. You know what? You hit your home run and with humility you round the bases and you touch each one. Act like you've been there before. Act like you've been there before. So etiquette stuff is more about not the preciseness of it but the sort of meaning behind it and what you're trying to say by being polite and how what the kind of the norms are in when it matters. And I would say, there was this brilliant writer who wrote this book called Irregardless Ain't a Word. And in that book Yeah, you talk about that author a lot. The subtitle was, The Way You Speak and The Way You Write Says a Lot About You. Well, I would say that the way you act, the way that you conduct yourself in certain settings says a lot about you. And, some of the mistakes that people make might not be a big deal in most settings. But it's a way to differentiate yourself from the competition. We talk about building your personal brand. And if you do things that catches the attention of somebody that that what you did is important to them. And it could be as simple as the way that you use your napkin, the way that you, cut your food the way that you can just so set of skills to have in your back pocket when you need them. Yeah. And, and 95% of the time it probably doesn't make a single bit of difference. But if it's something that is, uh, a pet peeve of, of a, of a boss or of a. Of a girlfriend's father and you do it right. Yeah, that can go a long way. And we all say right here, people with the premium brand. They demand bigger wages, better schools, better scholarships, and in our case, better girls. Right? Yeah. I had a client when I used to be a recruiting manager. I was a headhunter and one of my clients had a ritual for a final interview and obviously never told the candidates. We would get to the final stages and like this candidate, he'd say, now we're going to lunch. Well, that seems innocuous enough. Well, there was an agenda and this client would ask the candidate to drive because the client wanted to see the condition of the not, not what brand, what kind of car he was driving or he or she, but what. the inside of the car looked like, and, and also as wanted to see this person in a social setting dinner or having a meal, how did they conduct themselves? How did they treat the help? How did they treat somebody who couldn't do anything for them? Were they courteous? Were they dismissive? Were they, that was his final litmus test to see. Is this person authentic and genuine and are they kind to someone in just a random situation like that or are they entitled, are they demanding, are they what a, and boy, most of the time that went well but when it didn't, wow, there were some quite the stories that came out of that. Very telling, yeah. Very telling and I have to tell you we had a table lodge on Tuesday night at the University of Minnesota and a table lodge for anybody that's a of Freemason. You understand what a table lodge is. It's a very festive event. We do a series of toasts. We toast a number of different things and it was the first opportunity that I had to meet with the uh, president of the University of Minnesota. So I sat right next to her. Dr. Rebecca Cunningham is her name. And a delightful, well, now. Anyways, very, very delightful person. What I discovered about her, Was the kind of person she was. There was a group of, uh, students that came in and sang Old Lang Zine. Yeah. At the very end of our program, and when the kids were departed, departing, she jumped up and ran over and thanked every single one of them as they were leaving. Wow. And I thought that is a person that gets it. Mm hmm. Class act. Total class act. And it kind of made me feel bad that I didn't get up and do it. Seriously. Yeah. It's like, there was something to be learned from witnessing that type of behavior. And that's what we talk about with the civility school. You know, you've heard the thing that character is what happens when nobody's watching. I would argue that character happens mostly when everyone is watching. Because, because people will emulate great behavior. And if you do, if you see somebody doing something that catches that, that's unusual grace or unusual kindness, you, you remember that and you think maybe I should be serious role in a way is, is kind of giving them a little hints about what great behavior might be, what some of that would be, because maybe some of that's not been passed on to them or they didn't, weren't exposed to it or don't know really what, what that is. Right. Well, generationally, absolutely. And I don't know if you guys have seen the videos of, uh, There's this professor at some Ivy League school, and he said your final exam is one question. what is the name of the gentleman who cleans this, this room after we're all done in here? One question. Pass, fail. If you get this right, I mean in that, you know. Take a guess. The point that he was making is, pay attention to those people, those are the people, and it turns out his name was Will Hunting. Nah. No, okay. Okay. Well, Reid, uh, I want to thank you, uh, for, uh, for taking the time to visit with us tonight. Um, you have another question? I was going to say, happy World Kindness Week to everyone. World Kindness Week. Kindness Day was, uh, the 13th, and you saw we posted it on, on our, uh, social media posts. And, So, you know, I, I appreciate that we're actually able to talk this week and, you know, hope everyone had a good World Kindness Day. I don't really know what it means yet, but we'll keep, we'll keep, uh, celebrating, help build towards something in, in a future year. Absolutely. All right. It's been a pleasure to join and, uh, thanks for everyone who did attend their Join or Die screening. Please check it out on Netflix. Yeah, check it out. It is streaming and really a powerful message for everyone to find something that motivates and inspires. Go out there and get involved and contribute to the kind of space in this world. It's a wonderful thing. Let's do it. And Reid, what is the proper response to thank you? You are welcome. And it's not you're welcome, you are, or Y O U R. It's Y O U, apostrophe, R E, or you are. Are welcome. Right? And that is a sign that John and I are excited for the civility project on the 21st. Yeah, I guess so. That is a proper, not, no problem. Hey, don't worry about it, those type of things. You are welcome. You are welcome. Or you're welcome. But if you do you're welcome and it's Y O U R. It's not yours. It's not yours. It's you are welcome. Yes. Nice. Hill Murray baby. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, Reed. And with that, off we go..