Be Nice or Be KIND?

To be or not to be Nice or Kind...THAT is the question. The KC Crew tackle this important (sorta) topic. Of course, we also discuss donuts and bad mustaches. You got this! (Barf) That comment will make sense when you give it a listen.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Kindness Chronicles, where we hope to inject the world with a dose of the Minnesota kindness that it needs. Yeah, we've decided that Minnesota nice. After you listen to today's program, you'll understand that Minnesota NICE should be replaced with Minnesota Kindness. Yeah. Welcome. We have Steve Brown in the studio. Hey. Hey. And we've got our special guest. Kinda once a month guy Michael Dempsey. Hey, who? Hey, thanks for having me back. Yeah, it's good designated hitter once kgs not here. So we uh, you know, we have to. Ramp up our standards and invite Michael and to provide a little bit of intellectual steam to what we're trying to get accomplished here. Yeah. I'm happy to carry his goalie bag. I'm happy. Me, the pads are stinky. You imagine the smell. Oh wow. Oh God. That's a smell you can get outta, I think we've discussed that in the past. Yeah. He's had some stories. So, Michael, what have you been up to since we last chatted? Wow. Uh, yeah. Well, I I'm happy to be in the back end of winter, I'll tell you that much right now. I mean, I, I think the last time I was here was probably like. You know, 15 below zero. So it's good to be in the back end of winter. Um, lots of great stuff. I mean, lots of kindness out there. Uh, I was at a event not too long ago, uh, for Best Prep. Are you familiar with Best Prep? No. Yeah. Best Prep, it's been around for about 25 years. Uh, a guy that, uh, I, I believe he was a teacher for a while, Minnesota guy. He enlisted. Some executives from 3M and General Mills, and I think in the late seventies they started a program where they would go to high schools and, um, offer some mentorship, some financial literacy. Oh, cool. Um, all of those kind of things. They had a big, uh, soiree big, their big thing at the, uh, Minneapolis Convention Center about a month ago. Um, it was great. It was, it, it's wonderful. How many people were at the event? I'd probably say about 700. Okay. Any live music? It's a big event. Yeah. There was live music. Good. Johnny Clueless. It wasn't Johnny. Just making sure there's live music there. That's good. Yeah, it was a, it was actually a, a family, uh, of, of kids. I say kids early twenties I think. Oh, jets jet. No close yet. I mean, my goodness, those guys are 50 now. Yeah. Right. I mean, they were, they were, they were kids and then they had, uh, PhD from MIT. Oh, cool. Talking about, oh, people. Good for you. Everybody's favorite subject, ai. It was really great. Yep. So Best Prep was good. Oh boy. Wait a second. AI. Didn't we just talk about ai? You did. We did. Yeah. You did. Yeah, we did. We did a deep dive with ai. I'm a little freaked out. You guys have covered the landscape since the Let we bit of Mardi Gras. We had a lot to talk about last, last week. You know, donut hut, you know, high school hockey mustaches. Yeah. I mean you guys covered, it was kind of a pope. It was. It was good. I loved it. Hey, I'm one of those guys that listen every week whether I'm on or not, believe it or not, uh, I need it. So, you know, you mentioned that last week you got comments. People saying, where's the episode? We skipped the week. Yeah, we skipped the week. I, I listen and, um, man, there's, there's a, there's some episodes that are just off. The charts are good. There's gold nuggets and I mean, there's some, you know, clunkers in there. There's no doubt about it. Gotta know what, be kind. I'm being kind. I mean, that's do the best we can, Michael, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I give you both. I give you both. Well, so the topic today is the difference between being kind and being nice. And I would say. That offering constructive feedback is an example of being kind. You could be nice, correct. And come in and say, God, I love every one of your episodes. Yeah, it's great. You guys are great. You guys are amazing. Yeah. That isn't what we need. What we need is we need more kindness. I agree. And being nice is the person that just is sweet for sweet sake, you know. Let's, can we attack this topic? Let's get into it. I think that there's a lot into it. Let's get nice versus kind. Very, oh, let me just start by saying, yeah, I, I found this, it's a very common topic, but I, I found a, a, a thing on LinkedIn from a, an A post from Atlanta Tart, um, oh yeah, Mrs. Tart, well, she, she posts a lot of things like this, and so I wanted give her the credit for this graphic that I sent you guys that it said, let's talk about this. It's an interesting post, and then you did a serious deep dive into it. Um, and found a lot of great videos that, oh, I did. It's, it's a, it's a really funny, interesting thing. Speaking of LinkedIn, in the spirit of kindness mm-hmm. Do you ever notice that there are people that post things on LinkedIn? They're trying so desperately hard to be compelling. Oh boy. And it's, and there's a couple that come to mind. Oh boy. And a couple of these people seem to be linked to everybody. So when you get a LinkedIn request. Yeah. And I don't know, there's one person in particular, and I'm not gonna say out of, in the spirit of. Of of being kind? No. Oh, in the spirit of being nice. Yeah. This is a chance where you need to be nice. Not, I'm not going to say who it is. If I were kind, I would send her a message and say, you know, I appreciate your, your interest in the effort that you put into your LinkedIn posts. But it's a little much, and it's every single day. Yeah. And this person always ends it with. You got this and I just want to barf. Oh boy. Oh boy. I bet you when we're all done, we're gonna compare and I bet you guys are, are LinkedIn with this person as well? I can't think right now. It it, it's so self-serving. I, I like those LinkedIn posts where, you know, the, the headline is, I walked my dog this morning and he did his business. And these are the three things I learned by watching. My dog do his business. They're finding any way to grasp. Yeah. And you're like, uh, really? You know, I got engaged yesterday in the Grand Canyon and here's the me think about five ways that it improves my, you're like, are you uhhuh? Are you serious? Yeah. It's really great to be kind. I would say enough already. Uhhuh, you know, if you did it twice a week, that'd be fine. You got this. Go for it. So nice and kind. Definitely gets mixed up in our vernacular. Absolutely. It sure does. How we think about it. Yeah. But when you go deep into it, it's very different. Tell us a little about, I spent three hours today on Nice and Kind. I don't often do show prep. Yeah, true. In fact, your friend Peckman, who's a listener. Bob. Yeah. Hey Bob. Bob. Hey Bob. This is the guy that talks too much apparently, whatever. Oh wow. But he admitted that to you. I know he did. That was kind. He was being kind. He was being kind. He admitted that to you. Well, guess he said it. Guess what? I'm gonna be kind and And I'm going to offer you an opportunity to listen some more. Bob is the driest witted guy in. Yeah, it was. You know what? He gets me'cause he knew that I could handle that kind of. Yes, exactly. Kindness feedback. That kind of kindness. Yeah, that's kindness. Um, so Okay. Studied this quite a bit. Yeah. And people that are nice, you know, they are sweet people, but they're doing it because they're sort of expecting something. Like, an example would be if you give up your seat for a girl that you're interested in. Mm. That is nice if you give up your seat for an elderly woman that you have no interest in dating, but you're just doing it. Because it's the right thing to do. Mm-hmm. That is kind. Holding a door for a person could be kind. It could be nice if you're doing it to make yourself feel good. That's being nice. Mm-hmm. If you're doing it to help a person out, to serve them in some way with nothing expected in return, that's being kind, it's altruistic, uh, angle on kindness. Right. It's sincerely altruistic. I, I, I, I think you knocked it outta the park. I didn't do three hours of prep. I did read this, that you sent me. I the one page document that you sent you The one page. Yeah. With a, with, with about 12 bullets on it. That's the intention I gave it, but I will say that. That was the first thing I took away from it as well, which is when you think about Nice, it's, it's very self, self-serving. It's very self-serving. So if you go down the list, it's clear on the nice side, um, these are attributes of someone being nice. It's clear that all of those attributes, to your point, are about being self-serving. I'm doing this for me for some reason, I'm doing this for me. I'm not really doing it for the greater good of, you know, those around me. That, that's the biggest, the biggest takeaway I got. Let me read a couple. Yeah. So our, our audience can kind of catch us. Sure. Because this is the official Yeah. Nice people versus kind people. Nice people focus on being liked kind people focus on earning trust and respect. Nice people. Avoid tough conversations. Kind people lean into tough conversations, which what you were saying, John, right? So an example just to, to let me lean into that particular thing. Nice people want to promote like social harmony. Yes. And kind people. We use this term in masonry. We should have a ding, ding for, for masonry. It's, it's what we call we d ding, ding, ding. I'm gonna, I'll bring that. Yeah. Next. Whispering wise, counsel, when you see somebody doing something that concerns you, you remind them. You say something about it, but you do it in a whisper. You don't like scream it at them. You just say, Hey, you know, you might wanna think about what you're posting on Facebook because when you post those political things, it alienates half of your quote unquote friends. That's being kind. I agree. Being nice is going, oh, I love everything you post. Here's some more. Um, nice. People ignore issues to avoid conflict kind. People address behavior to protect trust. Exactly. Nice people choose comfort over clarity and kind people make value-based decisions a after reading, and there's even more. But after reading some of these, I was kind of shook because you're kind of nice. I assumed I was, I assumed I was more on the kind side, but you know, it, it, it happens to be that. I, I thought about it pretty deeply too, and I, I think with my family for sure, I'm kind Yes.'cause I am You're willing I take my job as a dad, as a, as a husband. Absolutely. You know, I, I don't like, even if it's work,, in more social stuff. I, I'm a showman, I'm a performer. I'm a band guy. I wanna be liked, I wanna sell myself. Yeah. Sell my band. I find that I'm, you know, I'm nice and you're nice and, and to go deeply. Like I told you Michael, right. We talked earlier. Uh, I don't like conflict and I think that's, that has to do with my family placement and how I, you know, I made the, my, my family laugh when things got tense. I made my mom. I was the one that could make my mom laugh. My brothers and sisters would be like. Get, get in there, go do a little dance or something. Make her laugh. And I would, I could do it. Put Put on your Elvis. Put on your Elvis costume. Exactly. Get out there. I, I had that ability. So I think I lean on nice. More than I wanted to. More than I thought I did. But again, to be clear, there's nothing wrong with being nice. I know. There's nothing wrong to be nice. Exactly. I think, you know, it's a, I think it's a good combination of things. I mean, sometimes, yes. Being nice is, is just, it's the proper thing to do. Yes. There's a time for it, for sure. And even if it's self-serving, it is being nice. Absolutely. conflict avoidance, if your boss, for example, says something that you don't completely agree with, but you're probably not in a position to challenge them on that. Mm-hmm. It's nice to agree with them. It's kind to thoughtfully. Respond with maybe some constructive feedback, but sometimes you just gotta be nice outta self-preservation. Yeah, you do. Well, I, I, I, I mean, another example, I, I, you know, you're at a dinner party, you're meeting people for the first time. You're nice, right? I mean, you want it to be comfortable for the people that are around you. Absolutely. Of course, of course. You're nice. Uh, that's what you do in that sort of scenario. The one thing about your list that I would underscore and sort of put in lights is. The first one, which is establishing trust. Because when you, when you establish trust, when you're able to do that, even in a short period of time, you've given yourself the ability then to be kind, even if it isn't, I'm agreeing with you, or I'm having the tough conversation, or maybe I'm critiquing something because established trust, you know that it's not coming from a place of I'm competing with you and trying to tear you down. Yeah. And so I, I, I, I think it being at the top of the list. Building trust is not a mistake on that because you need that and if you have that, you have the ability to to then be kind for sure. And I do think that it's, you almost need to earn the right, in many cases, especially in business scenarios, yes, you have to earn the right to be kind. You know, when you're first getting to know a colleague, it's natural that you're going to be, yeah, that you're gonna be nice. It would be kind of rude to provide constructive feedback when you're first getting to know somebody. Yeah. Who the hell is this guy going in? Right. That's exactly right. But you know, after you know them for a while and they used the word across, like when somebody says, I'd walked across. Yeah. That must drive you crazy. Oh God. It dri you know, the, regardless. I'm sorry. Yeah, regardless. Irregardless is the word that just, you know, or especially, I gotta reach a book. I gotta get all these. What? You haven't read the book? Wow. I don't. I haven't seen one. I wanna sign copy. We'll have to get you one. Yes, I know what you're saying. You can't just. Start in and make a cheese the first time you're with them. You could go crossed really, but if you know them, you could go, you know? Well, and that's when you ordered that coffee. It's not espresso. There is no X in that word. That's kind of the gift that you have too, I would say. In this list and in kind of the research, would you say that this is what I think you have to have an altru being kind. You have to have an altruistic angle. Uh, you're not trying to, you're not self preserving yourself. You actually care and you're actually gonna give your time and effort into someone. Yep. And also this is kind of where you, where you come in, you actually have to have a little bit of boldness and I think sometimes. I will have all the altruistic ideal, but I don't have the boldness to jump in and just, I don't wanna look like who, who do I think I am jumping in and like, yes, helping this person. Maybe they don't wanna be helped. That requires a step and sometimes I, I've, I've caught myself sometimes going. Why didn't I just do that? What, what was I, it wasn't that I didn't want to, it was like I, I would've felt dumb. Or what if I would've offended that person for helping'em, or, yes. That, that's where I land sometimes. I'm like, who cares? Just be bold and do it, and I, and I've been socially with you out places. Yeah. I see. You are a guy. You are a guy that if you see someone you know, you will just go and talk to them. Yeah. Most people, that's, that's not normal, John. Um, that's who you are. Most people go, oh, I think I know that guy. John will walk up and go, Hey, hey, don't we know each other? Did you go to, you know, St. Jude's? Well, and part of it is, is, you know, I think that people appreciate being acknowledged Yes. Instead of ignored. True. But I want to go back to your, I I, I thought of something. It has to do with mustaches. Oh, okay man. We're gonna be back on mustaches or hockey. One of No, just the bad mustaches. Go ahead. Just I was out with my family on St. Patrick's Day, and I think I may have mentioned this on a previous podcast, but there was a young man who I knew I. Who went to high school with my two boys and he had just a terrible mustache. Yeah. Now I could have been nice. Oh, no, no, but I felt like I knew him because you knew him. I, I knew him, but I don't know him well. Okay. But I went up to him and I said, the mustache isn't working. I'm like, you are a good looking guy without the mustache. Here's the question, Sean. Yep. Who heard that? Several people. Okay. Was it a table full of people? It wasn't whispered, that's for sure. Was it, was it people that he knows that he knew? Oh yeah. Okay. And they didn't know me and they thought, okay, okay, who's this prick? Okay. Okay. But he got it and he goes, Hey, I'm trying, I'm working on this thing. I said, okay, we'll let you keep trying. No, keep. No, no. But I mean, maybe it hadn't fully formed. Yeah. Like it was in the very early stages. Like, you know, you're a guy that can wear facial hair. I am not, but I, it's, I, I love this story only because I've done the exact same thing as John, my, my nephews. You know, they'll, they'll walk in. I'm like you, but you know them, right? I do, I do. But their friends might be with them, right? Because they, they live in the same, that makes it fun. So there's a little bit of you guys trying to get a good rise out. I'm trying to be the funny guy, but you're, but you're like, you. No, what are you, I mean, what are you doing? And so now it's a bit, so now they know, right? Yeah. And so you're that guy. And so when they bring their friends around who have one of those, my, Hey Uncle Mike, what do you think of Bill here? And I, they just know because. There's only two mustaches that are worthy. Tom Sellek Mustache. Sure. And, uh, Gar. Who's Garr? He was in a movie. He was in Mask. He, uh, he's in the, um, oh, uh, absolutely. The insurance commercials. He does the Sam. Sam. Sam Elliot. Sam. Elliot. Sam. Elliot. Elliot, Elliot. Those are the two mustaches. That's it. You are allowed to have a mustache. Tom, Tom Sellek, Sam Elliott and Sam Elliott. You you. There you go. If you, it's kind of part of his sound. His look. Everything. If you don't have that no mustache, the guy who plays Ron Swanson don't have a mustache. Okay. All right. But the other thing about mustaches, wow. We're still in mustache. Yeah, we're still in mustaches. I wanna get back to some, they're so, they're so intentional. You know like when you see a manly man that's got a mustache and beard and they just let it go, it's like, damn, that's a man. Right? Then you see somebody with a real manicured mustache and it's like super specific. It's just so trite. Intentional. Yes. So they're trying too hard when they say, Hey, what do you think of my mustache to be kind? I would say, I don't like it. I think that you look better without it. I would say I would. I would would say, I would say, where is it? I'd say, oh, that's what that is. What was that? So kindness. Okay. Being kind and truthful and honest. And you're caring about that person, right? Means you know them or you, uh, have a connection with them. Because if you try, if you try to be funny. And you're going for a joke. Um, and it fails. It's bad, bad, bad, and you look like a jerk, right? So that's why you choose, you, you're on that teeter, teeter-totter of kind versus nice. You, you choose. Well, and and part of it is, is you have to choose it. It it's never out of a place of meanness. Correct. It's never like, I'm never going to Yeah, yeah. You know, if somebody shows up and they've been trying to lose weight. And they're like, Hey, what do you think of my weight loss? Yeah. Oh man, that's great. Put yourself out there. Great. Congratulations. Because their weight loss is, if they feel good about it, I'm gonna be supportive. Correct. That's what matters most. Right. That's, but if, uh, I'm, I have trouble sometimes keeping my. Thoughts to myself. Well, you're, you're kinda a wise guy, but I think people, when people know you, you, you know, you're say funny things because you're, it, it is a little bit outta love, a little bit of care and funny, you're trying to be funny, you're trying to get a laugh selfishly, but you also. Do it because that's your character. That's who you are, and you know the people around. You know, you, you know, one of my favorite things is when we talk about me. I know. That's fantastic. More let's go. Yeah, I, I do. It's interesting that we got to mustaches in, into nice and kind. It's appropriate though, because I'll go back to my nephews and do the same thing. Sure. But, but here's the sort of nugget in the middle there. The nugget in the middle is. You're going out now looking for jobs, right? You're in your early to mid twenties. You're trying to do business out in the marketplace. Recognize how people are seeing that, right? Your peers may be seeing it as. Oh, you're trying that. Me too. Look at all of us trying this mustache. Yeah. But when you are November trying to do business with Right. Do it in November. Not, uh, don't be testing the wise. Right. You have an excuse, stupid. Recognize that people are maybe seeing that and go, oh, uh, are you 17 and you're just, you know, growing something for the, that's the nugget there. Right? That's the kind.'cause there is an element of that. Mm-hmm. There is an element of. Oh, you're, you're gonna, you're wearing that, right? I mean, um, or you really, you need to swear, uh, nonstop, you know, and string those words together. There's an element of kind when you come back, as John does, and I do this as well, and make some funny comment about, well, are you a drunk sailor? What's your deal? Right. Right. Like, oh, somebody learned how to swear. Right. And what you're saying, the undertone, the kindness here is. Hey, man, you're smarter than that. I mean, there, there's, okay, time to swear and throw those words down. That'll make your mom blush. But this isn't what you can do better. You can do better. So let me ask you this. Um, our wives don't listen to this show. Does your wife listen to this show? Uh, not really. No. Probably not. So if your wife comes out with an outfit and says, how do I look in this? What's your response? Um, are you always kind. Or sometimes are you nice? I'll, I'll say this, I'll base it upon how much time we have to get to where we gotta go. Oh wow. That's very good. So there is, that's good caveat sometimes because that's part of the equation. Because if I say I like it and I say it too fast, she knows I'm getting, I wanna get going. So she'll go, oh no, you didn't even right. You didn't even, so I lost you locked. So I lost. So, um, it's a, it's a trappy the way you're screwed. You might as well stay out of there. Don't go upstairs. Just be downstairs ready to go. Right. Um. But, but I, I, I will, I'll lead her and I'll say what I, I'll show her what I really think, and honestly, that's what she ends up going back to. She'll change eight more times. Yeah. She knows what looks best on her. Have you ever answered need me to tell her? Have you ever answered? It's fine. Let me tell you, this is bad. That isn't tricky, tricky audit. That isn't bad, right? It's, it's what? It's re choice. It doesn't matter what I say because my eyes dece. My eyes are what tells the truth. It doesn't matter. Oh, she can tell what? Oh my gosh. No matter what comes outta my mouth, my body language, in my eyes, that doesn't, doesn't matter. The words I use doesn't. So nicer kind. Why did they ask us that then? Yeah. Well, oh, that's a different show. You what? That's a different show. How are we on this? That's not very kind. Yeah. To put us in a position. To have to be, right. Yes. It's their fault. That's, man, we finally got there. Generally speaking. Yeah. What? What about your fault? It's their fault. Yeah. What about you? What do you say? I, you know, I've been married almost 30 years now. Yeah, me too. And me too. There are times, yeah. How long you been married? 30 years. Oh man. September, last September. 32,000. You got married in 2000? Yeah, so 25, but we've been dating, I was in 96. We've been dating since then. I was in 94, dating since 94. Okay. So yes, we've been together just as long. Yeah. I was dating in nine. We don't need to get, it doesn't matter. About 30 years. A long time. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Um. If, if she's wearing something that just, you know, I'll tell her. I'm like, eh, I don't think so. Yeah. I sometimes, I think that sometimes. But now when you're there, right, it's, it's before she leaves, right? No, it's before. Yeah. You're at the event. God, I didn't wanna say. Or you're about to walk out and you say you wearing that. No, it's, it's usually, like you said, when there's plenty of time. Yes. When there's plenty of time. Right. And I just, I if I think that when she looks at herself in pictures, she's gonna go. Why didn't you say something? Right. So you're right, we're screwed either way. Yeah. Yeah. So being nice or being kind, I think that when it comes to marriage, generally speaking, we as men are just better off always being nice. Keep always, always, always be nice. I agree. Yeah. But when it comes to kids and stuff, especially, oh, you gotta be kind. You gotta give them, you gotta give'em what they need, not just what they want to hear. Like you gotta give it to'em. Can I tell you one thing that irritates me? Yeah. Is when somebody says that their kid. Is their best friend. Oh, no. You know what? Yeah. I am not the best friend with my, any of my kids. I love my children, but maybe once they're adults in your, when they're, you know, maybe siblings. No, I mean, I, I, I'm, I, I love spending time with them, but my job is not to be a friend. Absolute to the kids. I'll use my son Ben. Ben is an example. Yeah. Ben has fabulous hair, but sometimes he lets it go too far. Uhhuh. And I, I finally said to him last week, I'm like, I really can't even look at you anymore. Just please, please, please, get a haircut. He got a haircut. He looked so good. It mean he's a handsome lad sharp young man. Well, and it's like sometimes when the kids are younger though, when you do that, I know they go against you when you know, when they know you don't like it, that's when they get crazy stuff with it. You guys train my kids and teenagers better than that. I, I, younger kids, I, I'll say on the, on the kid front,'cause I agree with you. I friend. No, I mean, I'm the parent, but I, you're constantly going back and forth between holding your kid accountable. Right. I'm gonna hold you accountable. That might be like, get your grades up, like, you know, do the things you say you're gonna do right. I'm gonna hold you kind of, and that's nice, right? I mean, no, no, that's kind. No, that's kind. That's kind. And then, and then jumping to man, you know, they're, they're going through it and you're their biggest cheerleader, like you got, then you got this, you know, you go back to the, you got this, like, look at all the great things you're doing and you propped them up. You're always going between. Holding accountable and being the greatest cheerleader. Yeah. And you got, you just, you balance that every day. It's, it's a bit like the hair. Hey man, you need to, you need to tighten that up. When he tightened it up, it wasn't like you didn't acknowledge it, I'm sure you were like, oh, I was doing, oh wow. That's, that's ama You look so great you again. Perfect example. Yeah. Yeah. Nice and kind brother. Yeah. Nice and kind brother. I think, uh, what did you, what else did you learn from some of the other stuff that you saw?'cause, um. You some. Well, there were some people, I mean, there were some people on there that, uh, that really got into sort of the religious aspect. Mm-hmm. And it was actually, it, it, here's an example. Know, the concept of turning the other cheek. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Turning the other cheek is being, what do you think? turning the other cheek. It's being nice. It is being nice. Yeah.'cause you're avoiding conflict. You're avoiding conflict. That's exactly right. but you can't let people run over you. Right, right. Turning the other cheek is, is being nice. Responding to them in a fair, decent way. Set'em straight. Just being kind. Well, we straight you, I mean, you've talked about this on the show. We've talked about this on the show so many times, being respectful. Right? Just being respectful. Not, not sort of flying off the handle, not being angry, not assuming Ill intent. Right. Right. Being respectful. The turning the other cheek is, I'm not gonna jump down your throat. When you just threw an insult at me. But I'm not gonna, you know, keel over either. I'm gonna be, I'm gonna come back to you, but it's gonna be in a respectful way and you're gonna, it's gonna be clear to you that that's unacceptable according to my, yeah. So according to my chart, nice. People suppress emotions to appear calm, ah, and kind. People stay present with emotion. Yes. But not ruled by it. Correct. Wow. So you're actually That is a good one. Yeah. You're, you're actually, you're not, you're not suppressing. You shouldn't suppress any emotions. You should actually live with them and have those emotions. Just don't be totally ruled by it. If you took that one according my chart, one, one step further, then you're inviting that other person, cooler heads prevail to now. Okay. Now come back, like, now let's have a conversation. Yeah. Right Now you, you, you went off the handle. Right. Maybe you're. They're angry, but who knows what the background is. But they get really angry and they come at you. They lash out at you, you that according to that chart being nice is just going, oh, that's okay. I. Being kind is okay. You lashed out at me. I heard you. I'm not gonna lash out at you, but I'm gonna make it clear that's not acceptable. Boom. And we're gonna engage in this conversation, and now I want you to engage in it, right? I'm not forcing you to listen to me, that that's the next step. So you hold your emotions in check. You don't get railroaded. You say that's not acceptable. You engage in a productive conversation and then you invite them to to that as well. You know, we as parents, you know, we, my wife and I laugh about good cop, bad cop. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. You know I You did that all the time. I am the good cop. No, Becky. No, no. Just hear me out. I am the good cop. Becky is the bad cop. And, and do you I don't believe that. No. I, I, I am the, you know when for Sam, you go, Hey, listen, your mom's really mad. Correct? Yes. We blame her. You better. Hey, let's take care of this. Your moms come in here in a minute, get a rake, get out and rank the yard. I mean, she yard. I, I wanna finish this on a very serious note, okay? Okay. So serious today. Well, and here's an example. If somebody in your life has a problem with alcohol. Sure. there are people that have problems with alcohol, to not address it, to just let it happen and not say something out of a place of concern, out of a place of love. Correct. Is enabling them and being an enabler. It's probably nice, but it is not kind. It's where you gotta be bold. It's, you have to be a little bold the way that tough man you approach it is, is just to say, Hey, I love you. And I've just noticed something that gives me concern and I'm wondering if it's something that you feel yourself. I mean, it's coming, it's being empathetic, but it's being honest and and true to people. And if you don't, you're just as culpable. Absolutely. You just as culpable. Hundred percent. If you don't take the opportunity in a respectful way to say, this is coming from a place of love. We, we, we gotta talk about this. You're just as scopable. Yep. I agree. 50 pounds ago when I was 50 pounds heavier, and I'm not kidding. My wife. Out of a place of kindness is like, you gotta do something about this really? Seriously. Wow. The donut hut. You can't go there four times a week. What? No. This was Pred donut hut. I, uh, four times a week the donut hut. I could do it. I could do it. So we got to donuts. Yeah. If we talked today, mustaches about Hill Marie at all. Oh, your brother Dan went to my brother Dan says hi to you today. Yeah. Class 86. Lunch with him his birthday this weekend. Happy birthday Dan. Hey, my birthday's tomorrow. That. What? Yes. Oh geez. Happy birthday to, I forgot you're to Mark Cat too. Wow. Happy birthday, John. Thank you. Thank you. 65 years old. That's great. 65. Don't look at day over 62. That's a special trip to Donut Hut tomorrow. It's a Thursday, not a Tuesday. I'm, I'm gonna take my A a RP card in there. Does this help? Well, no, you're not 65. No, not quite. You're in your sixties though. I'm way younger than KG kgs. No, you're not in your sixties. Yeah. K G's grandson came home. Oh yeah. Oh, that's great. Little Leo. Kenneth. That's awesome. Very exciting. Oh, that is exciting. He's a little soccer. Did you see the pictures? I did not. I'll I'll show you some pictures when we're all done here. Hey, you've given'em 35 minutes. Well, I, I actually, I more than they deserve. I'm kind of proud. We stuck on, we stuck on task and I really appreciate this. We went to mustaches. I really appreciate this conversation. I think it's a, it's such a, um. A great thing for our listeners to think through. Absolutely. Talk through as a leader, as a father, as a husband, as a, you know. Yeah. This might be the first episode where we gave people actually something to seriously contemplate. I know that's a good topic. I think that's why, you know, self reflection, we could probably keep going to that. Let's find some other good topics. Shoot us any topics you guys have. Uh, through our Facebook page. Uh, practice Oxytocin Sunday and tell us anything. No, no. It's oxytocin. Oxytocin Sunday. Sorry. I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, yeah, I wanna make sure we get this across to give us some feedback across, across, across. Come across, across, uh, we want some feedback. Let us know how you, how we're doing. And what's your experiences with any of these topics. My brother-in-law, Chad. Sent me a text today and he goes, this guy that's doing my training has said across several times. I'm like, how well do you know him? I don't know him at all. I go, be nice and just let it go. If you knew him, be kind and go up and say, there's no T at the end of that word. Right, right, right. Here's another one. Oh boy. When people mess up the difference between cavalry and calvary. Oh, um, you know, what do you get, get those involved. Exactly. I don't think I've ever been in a, are you kidding, situa? No. Why? Why would someone call, say those two words to me, calling in the calvary? You, I've heard people say, oh yeah, call in the Calvary. Calvary is the place where Jesus was crucified. Correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. You, but people say, call in the calvary. I heard it on, on. TV the other day. Oh my goodness. I've never, I've, I've, I've never heard that. Somebody needs to be kind. I'll that person and go, you gotta get to church. Oh. All right. Anything else? No, I think, uh, this is great. All right. Uh, well wait a second. Wait a second. One more thing Before, before you sign off, I mean, we go, do you, do you wanna put the PSA out there for this amazing event that you have coming up in May? Thank you. Yes. Yeah. What, your birthday May 21st No no's tomorrow. Oh, that's tomorrows, that's tomorrow, right. It's, well, actually, I'll probably be posting this on my birthday. Happy birthday to me. Wow. Thank you. Um, yes. Uh, May 21st. Good. We have a very, uh, big event at the Masonic Heritage Center. 11. Four 11 Masonic Home Drive. Four 11. Uh, 11. Four 11. Okay. 1, 1 4. 1 1 11 4 11, Wilmington, Minnesota. 5, 5, 4, 3 7. Anyway, we have this, uh. Special Night. We're doing our live, podcast. We'll be recording it live. Yeah. We're gonna be recording it live and we're going to be celebrating, uh, some selfless scholars as well as a bunch of other academic achievers. Their parents will be there. It should be a full house. So we're gonna do this on stage in front of people? On stage, yes. Wow. It's gonna be fantastic. I hope it's, I hope it's interesting, but, but what I love about it is the purpose is really to hold up these selfless scholars, right. We're, we're just. We're just the, the, the podcast is just the kindness crew is just elevating that. We're using that stage to elevate that. That's amazing. That's great. So May 21st. 21st. Wonderful. Five 30 I. Masonic Heritage Center i's auditorium. 454 seats be there. Jewelbox Theater. Wow. It's beautiful. What, uh, well they'll, you're gonna post something on it tomorrow on Facebook. Where would there be some details? I don't, I'm not participating in that stuff. Okay. Someone else is gonna do that. We'll get that post, but yeah. Okay. It's, it's free. Wonderful. Come and join us and, uh, with that, off we go.