Compassionate Humor w/ Professor Quentin Schultze

We visit with Professor Quentin Schulze, author of the best selling, "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out." He shares stories of Jean Shepherd, American storyteller, humorist known for the film, "A Christmas Story," which he narrated and co-scripted. He also wrote "The Great American Fourth of July and Other Disasters," which seemed appropriate for this time of year. Professor Shultze taught a class with Jean Shepherd on storytelling  

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welcome to Kindness Chronicles, where we hope to inject the world with the dose of the Minnesota kindness that it desperately needs. We got a very special guest, Jeff. Our 55-year-old intern is here. We've got Steve Brown. Hi. We have Michael Dempsey in the house. Welcome back. KG is managing the, uh, the affairs at Canterbury Park this evening. But Jeff has been hard at work, as we have said before, Jeff needs to find a job. Yeah. Uh, this early retirement, uh, is getting the best of us, but Jeff found, uh, an actual famous guest for us. Go. How about that? Yeah, I'm really excited about this. Um, and should I just. Get into it, man. Alright. I prepared a very short intro, so just Of course. Here. Here we go. Here. Humor here. Humor. Humor. Me here. So here we go. Today on the show, we're joined by Dr. Quentin Schultz, communications Professor Emeritus at Kelvin University, and an author who's written and edited over 30 books, written and or edited. I first heard Quentin just before Christmas, last December on Mike Rose podcast, where they discussed his latest book, the Amazon Bestseller. You'll Shoot Your Eye Out Life Lessons from the movie, A Christmas Story. It felt like a crash course in Americana storytelling as Quentin shared the story about how he was mentored by the great Gene Shepherd. A legendary radio and TV humorist who wrote the original story concept and the eventual screenplay that that became the film, A Christmas story. So why talk about Christmas in July? Well, back in the summer of 1982, my adolescent friends and I who loved getting into mischief involving fireworks and blowing things up, bad boy saw a great film on PBS. Which I always think about around this time of year, but, but despite my best efforts in searching and sleuthing on the internet, I could not remember the name or locate it. That was until hearing Mike's discussion with Quentin, where I suddenly realized it was Shepherd who wrote the Great American 4th of July and other disasters. Based on his original short work that he broadcast on the radio, and that was entitled Ludlow Kissel and the Daggle Bomb that struck Oh boy. more to come. I sure, I'm sure on that one. Anyway, the movie. Um, the more I explored Quentin's work, the more I saw overlap in the spirit of this podcast, good storytelling, everyday acts of kindness, and in the spirit of Jerry Seinfeld, a good dose of observational humor. So let's get into it. Guys, will you please help me? Welcome to the Kindness Chronicles podcast, Dr. Quentin Schultz. Woo. Yay. All right. This is enthusiasm, Quentin, by the way. This is no sound effects. We're really into this professor, if I may. Yeah. While he was doing that, it took everything that I had to not interject my usual. Is this a long story? That was great. That was great. It was. It was fantastic. So great to have you on with us. Thank you. it's such a pleasure. And, and by the way, that Great American 4th of July movie that was on American Playhouse, on PBS, uh, is actually available on YouTube. So if you go to YouTube and look up the Great American 4th of July. Um, uh, you'll find it, uh, and you can watch it there. So I just went on and took a quick look and somebody's uploaded it, so there you go. It's, I, I found a higher quality version than the one I linked you to in my email. And I'm gonna, I'll attach it to our posts, Steve. Yeah. On Facebook. Great. So look for it there. Professor, if I may, I just have one quick question for Jeff, as I often do. 1982, you were watching PBS Well, here's what happened. Um, my friend went, was it Sesame Street? Was it He was 12. He was, no, he was 1282. He was 12. Okay. It was, it was actually my friend's mom and we were over at his house and we were bored and we're like, what do we do? And she's like, you guys should watch this show. And I don't know if she knew Gene Shepherd. And I actually contacted him after I found. What the name of the movie was and I haven't talked to him in a long time. We went, we were in band together in scouts and stuff. His name's Wayne. I said, do you remember seeing this? And he's like, I do not, but it's what a treat to hear from you. And I said, please tell your mom thanks for sharing this film.'cause we laughed and got into it and they had recorded it on VCR. And anyway, I'm like, all I remembered from that was. Fireworks going off on the top of a school and a, a drunk guy walking around and a shopping cart full of, uh, fireworks at the, be like three distinct images. And I, I would search on that and was just like racking my brain. And then when I finally, I. I heard you Quentin talk about this, this Americana storyteller, Jean. I'm like, I wonder if that was him. And I put in shepherd and sure enough it popped up. Once again. Is this funny? A long story, Jeff, let's hear from our guests. It's long story. Let's hear, let's hear from our guests. We've heard enough from you. I just wanted to tee him up because I, I'm so appreciative and excited that he's here, so yeah. Oh, great. It's great. And, and thank you for contacting me. You know, the back interesting backstory on that, there is a scene where the fireworks that they're shooting off in a crazy fashion because the movie is partly about men not being able to control themselves and fireworks is one way that they get outta control. And, and so they actually had these fireworks going all over the place and they did it next to what was supposedly the local school. Well, it was. In fact they started it on fire. Oh no. With the fireworks. And uh, so they, they had the fire department come and put it out and all, it was wild. It's funny, um, it, and I was watching it a little bit, uh, in the car the other day in my, there's some Oregon music. It's a little annoying now'cause it's a early eighties. Uh, rendition and it's kind of adds to the quirkiness, but my wife's like, yeah, I, can you turn that off? So maybe it's a guy thing, but check it out and we'll, we'll post it. But, um, so how familiar are the three of you, Michael? John? Steve, with the Christmas story. Oh, are you kidding? Very familiar. Okay. I probably watched it 300 times. Yeah. It's amazing how many, um, li life lessons are interspersed in the story. And, and maybe I'll just let Quentin tell us the story about how he met Gene. Yeah, I can't wait. And the origin story. So. I promise for Steve's sake to keep the, my stories short. This is John. John says the one, John's the rude guy, not me. John is the one I'm ready to listen. Sir, please tell us. He's the thug. So, so what happened is I'm, I'm a new communication professor. This is the way Shepherd would tell the story. I'm a new communication professor C and I'm going into the classroom and I'm trying to teach about storytelling. The students are bored, bored out of their minds. I can't tell a decent story, and I say, what the heck am I gonna do? The textbook is terrible. The whole thing is a mess. And here I am, a communication professor, making a fool of myself. So I look around to find somebody who can teach me real storytelling, who really knows how to do it the best in the country, or at least one of the three best, and, and guy. And I determined he's probably one of the top three storytellers in the US at the time. This was in the early eighties. And that was Jean, JEAN. Yep. Shepherd, like shepherding the flock. And so I tracked down his, his home, uh, address, and sent him a letter and said, uh, I'd like to learn storytelling from you. He'd never heard from a professor or an academic, I think is the way he put it, that was interested in what he does. And I said, well, can we do this? And he said, I don't see why not. Let's do it. So, uh, we got together and uh, we actually co-taught a college level course on, on his work as storytelling. And that's where I really learned what story the best storytelling is all about. I find, and I thought eventually, someday I'd write a book about my experiences with Gene and about how he told stories, what his philosophy of storytelling was, which fits in perfectly with the Kindness Chronicles, by the way. And, uh, I never did it. And then last year, uh, finally I was at some, uh, group somewhere, a party or something, and somebody said to. And I said, well, I've been thinking about writing, finally writing this book about the movie, a Christmas story. And they said, well, that's just a goofy movie. There's nothing to it. And I said, really? And, and then I told them a couple of stories about the stories in the movie and why the stories are the way they are, because Gene Shepherd was really a philosopher or a semi theologian in a philosophy of life. And that's what the movie's all about. And, and when I told these people, they were stunned. Uh, they, they said they'd never see it same way again. So I wrote the book called You'll Shoot Your Eye Out, which is the most popular right line from the movie. Yeah. And, uh, and so that, that's what happened on that. I finally ended up writing the book that I thought maybe I would write 30 years ago or something. view of storytelling was what I. Compassionate storytelling. Love it. He wanted to tell stories that would reveal our weaknesses, our foibles, uh, the nuttiness that is this thing called being human. Uh, but would do it in a way that we would all look at it and say, boy, that's the way it is. And not look at it and say, oh, other people are down. Other people and the kindness, that's a humble humor, which is where the word humor comes from. And, uh, it, it helps us see ourselves more clearly. And that's what Gene did in all of his storytelling. He was a compassionate storyteller. And then along the way, all kinds of other people who listened to him on a late night radio show he had in New York, which was popular across coast at night. Learned storytelling from him, listening to him again and again. And, uh, many interesting people involved in that. Uh, Seinfeld is one of those, uh, uh, pen Gillette. In fact, pen Gillette says he learned about humor from listening to Gene at night. And Jerry Seinfeld says, he told me he learned his entire comedic sensibility from Gene Shepherd. Wow. So there are tremendous influences here. But it's really interesting'cause you watch the movie, let's say a Christmas story, that's the most popular movie in America now seen by over 50 million adults annually. And you, you don't get the sense that we're making fun of people, but rather we're seeing ourselves the way we really are. Yeah. Steve and I are here and we actually met in a communication class in college, believe it or not, our under undergraduate. A long time ago. Yeah. It was a, it was a communications class. That's right. You were a communication. What school was it at? It was in, uh, St. Cloud, Minnesota, St. Cloud State University. It would've been 89, probably around that time. Yep. It's very much the Ivy League of Central Minnesota. Okay. Well we, we call it the Harvard of Easterns County. It's the Harvard of Easterns County. But my question for you is, um, back up a little bit, why were you a communications professor? What was it about communications that drew you in Yeah. And led you to understanding the power of storytelling? Well, two aspects to this. Let say St. Cloud's a good school. Thank you. One of my former students Cool Hus, right? Teaches there. Oh, really? Oh, cool. Yeah. It, it's not the notoriety of the status of a school that makes it good. It's the quality of the faculty. There you go. That Any, any, yeah. So at any rate, what happened is I grew up in Chicago and I grew up in a very hellish situation. My father was an alcoholic. My mother was a paranoid schizophrenic. And, uh, they were incapable of raising me, certainly not able to raise me well or nurture me. And so I went inside myself and I had all kinds of emotional problems that have affected me for my life. Um, and I'm a lifelong sufferer of anxiety and depression. From that, I've had a lot of therapy and all. I don't want you to feel too sorry for me. It's okay. But what happened was, uh, through, through all of that, I ended up living with my mother. They were divorced and my father died and, and I lived with my mother in a trailer. We were white trailer trash. We had no money. My mother, uh, was talking to people that didn't exist and she couldn't hold a job. She never got a driver's license. And so I'm just trying to survive and I'm, I'm doing a lot of reading and trying to figure out what the world is about through the stories that I would read. And then I, I got into high school and I was a loner there too. But then when it came time to go to college, I thought I would major in engineering because I like technical stuff. I'm a ham radio operator. Gene Shepherd was a ham radio operator. That's how I got his home address originally, and through the, uh, federal Communications Commission. So at any rate, I I, I got the school and I was gonna study engineering, and I thought, you know, what I really need is to figure out how to communicate with people. I need to come out of my shell. And, uh, so I started taking some communication courses and I found it fascinating. And then, then I learned along the way too, that the most powerful form of human expression is story. If you can tell a story and, and tell it, well, you can influence people, you can get their attention, you can persuade them. Storytelling is so, so important. So in my book, you'll shoot your eye out. What what I try to do is not just explain how Shepherd told his stories, but also how you can be a storyteller too, and how I learn these things from him. Because the way we really connect with each other is by hearing each other's stories. You know, as part of the Kindness Chronicles, you could say we take on empathy for other people. When we hear their stories. So I learned that in college and then I had some professors that said to me, Hey, you gotta, you gotta keep going and go to grad school. And I said, what for? I don't want a graduate degree. You know, I, I was thinking of working in a radio and, and at any rate, they convinced me to do it. And so I ended up getting a master's degree in a PhD. Wow. You made, you made the right choice. By the way, if you know how much radio guys make. Yeah. Right. Well, I still love radio and, and I, I, you know, I have some podcasts and all too, but for, for me, communication was learning how to be fully human in a way that I might flourish in my relationships with other people, because all of our relationships are formed or deformed through communic well. You can develop some relationships and that's what's gonna make life most worthwhile. Professor, I have to admit that of all the guests that we've ever had on, it's very difficult for us not to interrupt our guests. So I want to apologize in advance, especially for myself. But this topic is just so mesmerizing to me. And you know, Jeff, if you continue to bring guests like this, we may turn you from an intern to a senior intern sometime here in the future. But, uh, all kidding aside, I I, I'd love to go back to the, to the connection with Gene Shepherd. You know, you, it sounds like you virtually stalked him to get. Connected to him, but you know, tell us how the class that you taught with him came together.'cause I mean, not everybody can just call up a Gene Shepherd and say, Hey, let's teach a class together. That had to have taken some, uh, some guts or other things. Yeah. I knew, I knew Gene was ornery. I had read some Oh really? Series with him. Heard some, heard him on. Yeah, he was kind of an ornery character, so, uh, and sometimes he used pretty foul language. I thought, boy, what am I getting myself into? I'm a fairly new professor at a new school. Am I gonna get fired? So I I, I asked one of my colleagues who had been there a long time to, to co-teach the course too, to, to help me along if I got into trouble. And, uh, so he came in and we put together a syllabus. And I, which I ran by Gene, which included elements from all of his different work, from his books, his short stories, his TV shows, his radio shows, his stage performances. And I, we also invited him to do a stage performance at the school, which he did one night. Uh, we co-sponsored it with the local PBS affiliate, and he, he could tell one of his stories. And 45 minutes, and he performed all of the characters in the story with no props other than his body. Oh my god. The most amazing thing to see. So how did it go? Well, uh, the, the, the way he worked was to sit on the desk and to hold court and students, him questions in. We had viewed, you know, in the previous days or read, we read a number of his novels and uh, and then he would, he was off and running and he was telling stories. So they would say, why did you have such and such a character in such and such a movie or whatever? Or, what's the deal with this kid wanting a red writer PB rifle? You know, did you going, what's. And then he would go on and explain why that was in there. You, so it was, he was kind of monolog in that sense. You, uh, shared a story with Mike Rowe about how at some point, you must have been developing a friendship with him at this point, but, uh, you pulled him aside and said, you know, you're a Calvinist. Storyteller. Yeah. And, and I don't know if that was in person or part of your, uh, your Yeah. In person. Go ahead and share that. I, because if people don't know what that means, I thought it was pretty funny. Can I just ask real quick? Yeah. Interesting year. What year was it that you first met Gene Shepherd? Uh, it was in the early eighties. The first time we talked the course was, uh, I think it was January of 86, if I remember. So it was after the, was. Yeah, it was after the movie, shortly after. We also did a pre, pre, well maybe I, it was before that too, because I remember we also did a preview of that movie and then he, he did something he rarely would do, and that is he opened it up for questions afterwards. Oh wow. Neat. And, uh, kind of a focus group and. So, uh, well, let's just say that if people said things that were not kind about the movie, he had no qualms about, uh, telling them why they were wrong. He, he had a very, like a lot of of great comedians, he had a very big ego and very low self-esteem. So I, I got to know him, uh, during the eighties and into the nineties the last time for. I would've 96 because I think he passed in 99. Yeah, he passed in 99. I think. His wife, Lee, Lee Brown, who actually sings the song in the Great American 4th of July and other, uh, disasters. The, the, there's a song in there, the Ballad of Ludlow Kissel, and, uh, his wife sings that. Wow. Well, I interrupted, uh, Jeff's question, but I just, I wanted to have an understanding of about what timeframe this was. Yeah, yeah. So that's a timeframe. And he, he was already, well, once a Christmas story came out, he was pretty well known Sure. For that movie. But the movie bombed when it came out in 83, which is shocking. Yeah. And then, uh, and then later with the VC. I read a lot of his stuff, including an early book that he did, which was a collection of stories by a Chicago newspaper storyteller by the name of George, A a DE, and in that book more than anywhere else, he that I knew at the time. Uh, there are two kinds of humorists in the world. He said there are those that make jokes about people, uh uh, because they think that it will help people improve their lot in life. And he called those fundamentalist preachers. Okay? Yep. And then he said there are other kinds of people who make jokes. By putting people down because they don't like them, they don't like what they do or whatever. And he, he said, um, his humor is of the kind where he believes that nobody's perfect. Everybody's got all kinds of weaknesses and does things they shouldn't. And, but that's the way we all are and we're all in this together. And so we need to do the best we can. And, and Calvinism has within it a doctrine about total depravity, that everybody's depraved. And anytime we act in ways that are kind or good, it's because of grace. So I said to Gene one day, I said, gene, really? You are a kind of secular Calvinist. Oh my. And, and he agreed with that immediately. Wow. Professor. Yeah. Professor, I'm curious, uh, you being, um, a PhD in communication and referencing these storytellers. We, we had our own Garrison Keeler here in St. Paul, who was one heck of a storyteller as well. We still is also a professor. Yes. Still is. I know what I, I, I mean, were you familiar with his work as well? You were mentioning the top three storytellers and mm-hmm. All I could think of was. Uh, Garrison Keeler because he is, he's local. I'm sort of curious if you have any connection with Garrison. Yeah, I know his work pretty well and I read actually some academic articles that review and critique his, explain his work. Uh, I have never met him. Uh, I'm trying to think now. I know. In fact, I'd never been at one of his performances in person, although I used to listen to them on the radio some, and he had this storytelling component in there. Where he would talk about Lake Wobegon. And then he Yes, wrote about that. Of course, in his books and all, I think his approach to storytelling, this compassionate storytelling or compassionate humor, uh, was very close to Gene. What Gene did, uh, it never had in my estimation the depth of theme or message in it that Jean did. If you look at book. You'll shoot your eye out, you will be blown away by the how deep. Gene thought about all of the stories that he told, what they said about life. Uh, his, all of his storytelling was really parables that worked on two levels. The one level was everyday life, and this is sort of the way it is, and we laugh about it and there's some nostalgia in it with him, but then there's also a message there. And this whole thing with the BB rifle, the Red Rider BB rifle that Ralphie wants, uh, came out of shepherd's view of what was happening during the Cold War. And he was very worried that men, men controlled the weapons, uh, might get into it and shoot each other with weapons during the Cold War, particularly with. Mass destruction. So Dr. The nuclear stuff that was developing at the time, and, and, and he and Gene felt that, uh, this is what happens to men. They become men. He said, are Incurably romantic? That's right. They fall in love with things they have to. It's a special prize. So, Dr. Schultz, um, what a surprise. Can, should I, yeah. And then so should I, I, I, uh, I, can I just connect on that?'cause I want to, I I, what was so fun for me to hear in that interview is clearly Mike Rowe is like an expert on a Christmas story and he was bringing stuff up and the two of you were riffing and you were connecting all the dots. And I started kind of thinking about my friends and. Life and, and even just these guys and, and observations with my wife, uh, and my family. I've got two daughters, so like there's 20 chapters here with different, um, lessons in, um, you'll shoot your eye out. But for example, um, technology, you talked about how guys love technology and that whole connection with the coal fired stove, that's got the clinkers coming. But then we have this road caster pro, um, recording device, which I am super excited about. That's my piece of technology. And then my, a friend of mine who's not on this podcast, but he's all, all the time we're dealing with his cars and they're half the time never running. And, um. And, and that was just a, a funny connection about how we are into our things and how the women in, uh, Jean's life were kind of the heroes. And, um, the whole leg lamp piece with where that was placed and all that. So I'm just gonna tee you up there, but, uh, any comments on. Cars and technology and oh, and by the way, one other quick connection. Just recently in the news you brought up the Cold War I, and we're not supposed to get political, but when they announced about the recent bombing. You had brought up about how, um, who was the bully on, on a Christmas story? It was, uh, far Scotts Scott. Scott Farkis. Yeah. So, and Dr. Gill Scott. Scott was named after the Scud Missile Farkis. Uh, there's a connection there. I'll let you fill the gaps in, but I Couldn't't help but notice President Trump and then he had both of his, or all three of his guys behind him kind of showing us. A, a, a stance of power after we had, we had done. And I had thought of you and instantly, so Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. I, I talked about that when I was on Rose Show. That was kind of funny because the book came out last fall. And then the, uh, the publicist asked me for a list of people who might be interested in interviewing me about it. And I had seen a show somewhere with Mike Rowe where there was a leg lamp. Like there is in the movie, in the background, he has it in the background. And so if you watch his podcast, he has it in the background. And you, you have your, on that particular show, your publicist called him for that reason, I think. Yeah. Right. So I, I said to the publicist in Chicago, I said, yeah, you might contact him. So she calls me back a few hours later and said, done deal. You want you on a plane right away. I said, what the heck, uh, is that all about? And she said, well. He's a big Gene Shepherd fan. In fact, he learned a lot of what he does in storytelling from listening to Gene on the radio in New York or when Roe was living in Philadelphia. But you could pick up the station WA a b, C there. So the, the tentacles of of gene's impact are, are just amazing. So yeah, you got the men. Going back to the men thing, we love things. We're more interested in things. Women are more interested in relationships world. Are always bailing men out problems that men create because they think they can do more with things than they really can. And so, and that plays out with the car that's breaking down and gets a flat tire. And the furnace, he puts a tire in the furnace put on there, doesn't have any thread left. It was only a tire in the academic sense. And he got the furnace downstairs when he goes down to the furnace because the clunkers hit runs downstairs and swearing and. That's the old man going down to meet the devil at the seventh level of Dante's Inferno. And, and, and he's gonna see the very technology that other men created and he's not gonna be able to control it because that's what happens. Men create technologies and they can't keep them under control, and then they come back and they bite us. Uh, yeah. So all of that is in, in the movie. I mean, it's just theme after theme like that, that are, are stunning. Wow. So it's safe to say that he's a deeper thinker than we are. Yeah. Generally speaking. No doubt about that. Well, I, I think, yeah. I mean, you talk about having a PhD piled higher or deep or whatever. He, he, he did not have a lot of respect for people with high level degrees, especially people who were literature people. Who thought his books were just stories about his own growing up and didn't see, couldn't pick out the messages in them, the themes and all. That's interesting. And I think, uh, you know, I, he did, he, I think he had two, if I remember right, two honorary PhDs, one from Indiana University, which he had about one semester worth of courses at, including a writing course that he. A c plus on, which is the same grade that Ralphie gets. I did. I love that. Yeah, that's great. His theme, the movie. That's great. Professor, I, I, first of all, what a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Um, you definitely raised the IQ about 200 points and I just love how deep you went with, uh, the book. And I'll look forward to looking at the book, reading the book, but I. Oh, when Jeff said you were gonna be on, I went and, uh, Googled you and I looked at some videos and we always reference a movie or two on the podcast. I was listening to you do seven minutes on how to eliminate, um, and like, and then I watched your video about be in service to an audience and I loved it and I'm watching you and all I can think about is Dickie Fox. On Jerry McGuire. Yeah, I love that. And Jerry McGuire. Yeah. That always cuts to a guy who's giving sort of the advice to Jerry McGuire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I was li and now as I listen to you, his old agent Yeah, yeah, his old agent. Yeah. And I'm listening to you now, and you just, you, it resonates with wisdom and knowledge and humor and I, I just thank you so much for being a part of the uh, po. And Jeff, thanks for bringing this guy on. I, I also have a question or of kind a comment. So I love that movie as well. I think most people do. It's part of our Christmas time. Even the, the voice. That's Jean's voice, right? It is. That's his narration. Yeah. Um, that voice is really synonymous with, uh, uh, Christmas, traditional Christmas. Yes. And, and I, I had no idea that it went that deep. Now I'll watch it differently, and I wanna read the book as well, but I wanna say something about the movie. The movie is, you know, about a family, what They're in the forties or late forties. Okay. It's not fifties yet, right? Well, it kind of, it, I'll let Quentin expand on this'cause this is that expressionism thing, if I got that word right. But it, he never wanted it to really be pinpointed. Right. Okay, Quentin. Well, that's what I'll, that's what I wanted. Go ahead. It's about 1940, but you can't pigeonholed to one year. Okay. Well that's what's interesting about it is because it's nostalgic. But my generation wasn't from the forties and know that. But somehow now it's, it has such a, it, it's very timeless might because the vines, the, the, the thinking goes so deep. Maybe it's there and we don't really see it. But now it also is tradition because it's on tv on TBS for, you know, these marathons. It's now the tradition is that that movie's on. Right. And you feel that movie every season and it's, it's pretty fascinating. And not only that, it, it's delightful. It's sweet and it's funny and it is, it's, um. They're, they're all sort of making f you're laughing at all the characters, um, Follies, right. And, and their interactions. And it's very sweet. But it's, it's a movie about noia. Yeah. And if it works well, yeah, if it works well, Jean would say to me. People are gonna see themselves in it even if they didn't grow up in that period. Yep. So well done. Yeah. That was something that, um, I've been learning by listening to Mike Rowe.'cause he's all about, how do I relate this to a larger audience? What's that? And he used a German term. Welch Mez or something like that. But the two of you were going back and forth about nostalgia and he brought up the Smucker's, uh, voiceover guy with the name like Smuckers. It has to be good. And it just kind of brought out everybody loved hearing that voice and then the Wonder Years that was a, a, a spinoff and they kind of copied his idea and, but you talked about mendacity and relatability, and that's where. I wanna make the connection with the Jerry Seinfeld thing because these guys are constantly quoting Jerry Seinfeld on this podcast, and I don't know if they know what they're doing, but it's that whole, you shared a story about him finding earplugs on a, or you, you found some earplugs on a radio, on a airplane ride. And it, it said something like, in case of misuse, call this number. Right. And he would, he would grab onto something like that and then take it to the nth degree and make it funny. And so, right. I see John John's humor doing that. He'll pick things up on LinkedIn or something will bug him and he'll kind of rant about it. And I just like, anyway, I'll let you go now. Yeah, that's funny. The, gee, you know what I said on that more than I do, you know, I'm just wondering if people should go listen to that part. Geez, Jeff, about your Seinfeld connection. Yeah. Okay. I'll talk about Seinfeld connection. And one thing, let me just say that what happened with Mike there, because see, I didn't know in advance that so much Gene listening. I met him just before we were gonna record, and then we sat down together and once we started talking, I thought, holy smokes, uh, this guy has learned a lot about storytelling from someone that I learned storytelling directly from, and we're gonna have a great time together. And we did. Yeah. So he, I think he was right in inviting me in there because it was like we were friends we had never met before. Kind of interesting. So about Seinfeld? Well, um, if Gene Shepherd was right, that there are two kinds of humor, the kind of humor that you put people down because it makes you better, builds you up, okay. And the other kind of where you, you love the subject, love the people, you're making fun of them in a way that helps us see ourselves the way we really are. So we're not laughing at people, we're laughing with them. Yep. That's the distinction that Gene made. So when I met Jerry, I said to him that that was what Gene taught me, those two kinds of humor. And Jerry said, it's exactly right. He said, and then he said something along the lines that he spent his whole comedic career trying to do. The type of humor. Humor where it's based on things that happen in everyday life and it helps us see ourselves through those things and the things that we do with those things. And that, and, and he said that's what the Seinfeld TV show was about. Which is kind of funny because people would always say it's a show about nothing. When in fact, from this standpoint of comedy, it was a show about everything. Life. Yeah. And the way life is. It was meant that way. He got that, uh, he said, I quote Jerry Seinfeld on this. He says he learned his entire comedic sensibility from Gene. She, wow. He even named his Shepherd, didn't he? Wow. Wow. One last, or, uh, just a quick, I wanted to make sure I got this in before we, um, I have to, uh, um, conclude, but I want just, this is my last question, but, or last comment. It must, I, I think I heard you toward the end of that podcast episode where you had heard an interviewer. Talking about, or, uh, it was a reporter in, in Chicago who said he remembered Gene saying, yeah, some backwater professor one time, uh, like analyzed my storytelling and that made me feel like really good. And he, he. My sense was he was a troubled soul, a little bit based on just what I learned from you. Yep. And it was super talented. Big ego, but maybe, um, uh, low, uh, self-esteem. There you go. And that, I just wanted to say that that was very nice of you to reach out and, and what a great lesson to cold call or cold email or cold, uh, write a letter, snail mail and, and say, Hey, I, I admire your work. Sincerely, and I would love Yeah, and, and just that, that would, and look at now we're talking about it and so it's, I just wanted to say thank you for answering my email and meeting my friends here. And so anyway, can I just add what I find Great. What I find most unique about this is, you know, there are a lot of professors out there that will study the works of Shakespeare and or they'll study the study the works of Mark Twain. You actually are studying somebody that you could actually talk to, somebody that you could converse with and kind of peel the onion, so to speak. Yeah. To find out where he was going with this stuff instead of analyzing it and kind of, uh, assessing it according to your sensibilities. Yeah. You're actually getting to ask the guy. I mean, what a unique experience. Yeah. My God. Yeah. Very cool. Well, I, I, yeah. I just, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. Let me just say too and unusual, you know, that. Yes.'cause generally if it's a writer or filmmaker, whatever, they don't necessarily wanna talk to you about what they do. But I think he was interested in me appealing to him to learn storytelling from him and teach with him because it, it really helped him. Some good self-esteem, you know? Yeah. Some good strokes. And, and what happened on that, and I mentioned it, I think the only place I've ever mentioned it is in that Mike Robe task where he went so long, but the, uh, a guy I know is doing a documentary on Gene Shepherd and he's been working on it for about 15 years or so, and he interviewed one of Gene's producers. We first talked about related to 4th of July, um, the, um, the Great American 4th of July, the, uh, and so at any rate, he went to interview this guy and then he, the, the documentarian contacted me after that interview and he said, I, I'm putting a video clip. And I went to look at this video clip and it's this producer in Boston talking about the fact the gene was so grateful that there was this backwater professor Oh, wow. From Grand Rapids, Michigan, who, who, uh, took a, an interest in his work and taught a whole course on his work. And I thought, holy smokes, you know, that's fabulous. After Jean died and all. Every one of us every day just encourage somebody who's doing something well, no matter how menial it seems to be someone in a restaurant or someone's or whatever it is, just anybody out there. And sometimes the people that are most well known are the ones that most need it. Yeah. Uh, it's, you know, that's, it would make a different world, it would be a world of much more kindness to put it in your terms. There we go. Absolutely. We, we spend a lot of time addressing the importance of the, uh, the hormone oxytocin and just, you know, when you do those things, you know, you feel good. It's a bonding hormone. Yeah. When you fix those things, it's a bonding hormone. And we also right, invite our listeners to practice what we call Oxy to Sunday, which is on Sunday, spend some time looking at, you know, uh, manipulate your algorithms, your social media algorithms. And I would suggest that this Sunday for Oxy to Sunday, we take a look at, uh, the professor's work and we Yeah. Delve into some Gene Shepherd love, because let's do it. I mean, that to me just. Uh, it just fills me, you know, it fills me up. Yep. Um, I also wanna say. That, uh, we are so grateful that you joined us. In fact, Jeff was on the verge of hyperventilation when he came downstairs here, and, and I'm not kidding, I was hoping that we weren't gonna have to break out the paddles. He's done a lot more research than he was able to get to. It's okay. But we're glad you had a chance to talk with us. This is great. Yeah. And, uh, uh, again, we are so grateful for your time. And, uh, Jeff, you wrap this one up because we know. He literally, there's a pee stain on the front of his pants. I was just, all, all I'll say is thank you, uh, Dr. Schultz. Um, if you want a good dose of oxytocin, I. Or read that book, you'll shoot your eye out. Absolutely. And thanks for being my virtual communications professor as I embrace this new, uh, what did I call it? Uh, it was show, show show Shin, um, uh, beginners Mindset. Oh, yeah. Show. We talked about that a few episodes back. So I'm, I'm doing a career pivot as you, as we talked about, but thanks so much for this, Dr. Schultz. It's my pleasure. And listen, guys, get a copy of my book. Seriously. We're getting it. We're getting it. And, and let's, let's do a show just before Christmas. Oh my God. Yeah. I would love that. Follow up. Follow up. Goosebumps. I got goosebumps. Head to toe. Let's do it. Let's do it. Well again, thank you very much and we always like to wrap it up by saying, off we go. What a perfectly terrible. T. What a perfect terrible with illness and time here at home perfectly. I would confess such a perfectly, perfectly, perfectly. Worst possible way. Spent 365 days strife in this perfectly terrible, simply terrible, right. And pain. Face mask, LXi, glass suspicion. Keep sex with space working. No income, no paper, no movies, no sports, no. Perfectly terrible year. Thank God that a new one is here. It's hard to believe. It all came to be this perfectly terrible year. Perfectly terrible.