Billy McLaughlin (Part 2 of 2)

Part 2 of our visit with Billy focuses on his battle with Focal Dystonia and his decision to switch from a world-class right handed guitarist into a world class southpaw. Unreal story. 

Transcript

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Thank you for tuning into the Kindness Chronicles. The guest that we had this week, Billy McLaughlin, was so fascinating that we decided to do it as a two-part program. What's the deal with nobody leaving Voicemails anymore? All righty. Welcome to The Kindness Chronicles, where once again, we hope to inject the world with a dose of the Minnesota kindness that it desperately needs. And this is part two of our interview with Billy McLaughlin. I had a couple of buddies say, man, if your hand's feeling weird, you know, you should just take some time off. And I did. And three months later, I, not, maybe not three months, it was maybe two months later, I went to pick up my guitar and start to play some stuff. And I, my pinky and third finger had curled up underneath the neck. And I'm like, well, this is fing. That's not good. This is completely weird. What is going scary on? I couldn't play any of my, I mean, I'm, I'm a university educated guitarist. You can play his scales at 16th. No. At 140 beats a minute. You know, like just rip everything. Mm-hmm. And here I'm going like, I can't even play my own songs. Oh boy. What is this all about? And I immediately, you think, okay, well you had a hand injury, you gotta go back to the hand doctors. Okay. It's gotta be mechanical. Yeah. Tendon was messed up for something. Yeah. It's be me something mechanical. That's the mechanics of the human, uh, you know, healthcare system are are are the, the guys, the or orthopedic guys? Yeah. Oh yeah. So you go find the orthopedic guys and they, it, the structures worked out. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they looked at, they looked at everything. I kept going back and saying, there's something wrong. You guys, there's something you missed. They're like, after like being sent home four or five times. Being told, there's nothing wrong with your hand. Excuse me, sir. We think that you might have stage fright. And I'm like, dude, this is happening when I'm playing in my basement. You know? Right. Yeah. This has nothing to do with anxiety or anything like that. And I was, I was baffled. The doctors weren't able to tell me anything, so I went through the, I, I got in touch with Leo Cooch. Leo says, go to this, uh, uh, acupuncture guy at 33rd, and Linde, who's, he's still there doctor way Lou, he's fantastic. But the acupuncture didn't help. Um, quitting caffeine didn't help, you know, no more beer for a couple years. That didn't help. Mm-hmm. You know, nothing. Seemed to help. Mm-hmm. And I couldn't. When something goes wrong as a musician, there's one way and one way only to get it figured out. You practice. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's the P word, everybody. Mm-hmm. You practiced. Mm-hmm. And that's how we fix things. And the more I practiced, the worse it seemed to get. Really? What year would this have been? Um, this was 98. Okay. And, uh, it took, so I went through, uh, two years of not knowing what the heck was wrong and canceling shows'cause I couldn't play. Oh God. Most of the stuff. Um, I remember one woman I was playing, uh, out near Milwaukee and in Cedarburg, and she says, you're drunk. And I'm like, and I said, you know what, man? I am not, but I really kind of wish I was right now. Yeah. After your, because I was struggling, you know, and, and when you're playing solo guitar, if something doesn't sound right, it's, it's, it's him. Oh, right. Yeah. He's, he, there's something wrong with, especially when you're solo and, uh, I remember watching interviews and people questioning you right and left and you started then questioning, am I going outta my mind? You know?'cause you're starting to believe what you're hearing. And that's part of what I, why I thought your story's inspiring.'cause we all have those bouts of self-doubt sometimes when you go through the ups and downs of life. And did someone suggest potentially a neurological thing? Yeah. And you, you go ahead. So Andy York, uh, is one of the finest classical players in the world. Um, if you're into classical music, you know, his and Andy was here playing, um, a show at The Cedar, I think with this Indian guitar player, Mohan Vish. ACH, I think was his name. And, um, a wonderful guitarist from Brazil who I'm spacing on his name right now. But the important thing was I went out with these guys, um, after the concert and talked to Andy, was a very dear friend at from USC and I was telling him about my symptoms and the guy from Brazil goes, I know what that is. No, you guys have been looking unexplainable issue for almost three years. This guy looks at me, he goes, that's focal dystonia. And I never heard those words until this guy we were at, uh, what, what's the Yeah, isn't that near Latvia? No. Oh no, that's us. Sorry. Yeah. Right, right, right. No, I remember when we were sitting at, um, what's the place across the street from the Cedar? It was that Graham from 400 or some there, the 400 or something like that. Yeah. I forgot it was called too. When, when he says to me, focal de Sonia, I just saw, and he says, you need to look it up. And it's not as uncommon as you might think. Hmm. And so I'm, uh, you know, able to start looking around on the internet. Mm-hmm. And I go, I better get in and see this. And luckily here in the Twin Cities, we have, um, at the time it was called Sister Kenny. Mm-hmm. Institute at, um, uh, at Abbott. Yeah. Um, had a musician's clinic and had a very experienced neurologist who had me bring my guitar in. And she, she diagnosed me in 30 seconds. She said, wow, that's focal dystonia. It's classic. Um, whether it's on the piano, whether it's on the violin, whether it's on, um, the oboe, it's characterized by two, typically the pinky and third fingers losing contact with the brain. Hmm. There were never was a problem in my hand. The, the orthopedic eyes were right, the finger, the braking never had anything to do with it in that No, no, no. It, it's indicated that a lot of times when this neurological condition happens that there can be, it, it can be proceeded like bike accident. Okay. Or, or, or, or something like that, you know? Mm-hmm. Trauma of some a, a trauma of some sort. Yeah. And, and so clearly I'm thinking like what you're thinking was, well, you just had dislocated fingers, you know? Must, it must be mechanical. Yeah. It turns out it's not. It is the right side of my brain controls my left hand and that pathway to my pinky and third fingers is gotten screwed up and, and I, through all the repetitive fast movement. No, actually that's, that's, it's not, okay. That's not, that's not an interesting, that's not an indication because, um, a hundred guitarists could have played everything I played as often as I did, and I'm the only one out of it. So we've. By serving with the Dystonia Medical Research Foundation, if you're interested in dystonia, and it does sound like a, a country song. Mm-hmm. You can't buy my, my line is you can't buy a plane ticket to dystonia. Dystonia. Dystonia. You wouldn't want to. It's the third most common movement disorder. And other forms of dystonia include the most common one, which is Writer's Cramp severe Writer's cramp where your penmanship is so bad. You, you know, you really can't see the yips in, in, in the, in the golf world are considered, huh? Form of dystonia. Really. Yes, absolutely it is. I think I might have that. Well, maybe just a bad golfer. Maybe that's it. Uh, so, so getting a diagnosis can be so helpful sometimes. Um, and one of the great things she said to me, even though I immediately went into denial and I didn't accept what she was telling me,'cause she said, you're gonna have to figure out what else to do'cause it's gonna get worse. And it did. But the other thing that, um. She shared was, you know, uh, we don't have any cures for this at this time, but you did nothing wrong to dis this dystonia is not something you, because you were living wrong or Right. You know, or playing, playing wrong or anything like that at all. She says it just happens. And often times in certain ethnic groups, especially kids are born with it throughout their entire body and they're initially diagnosed with cerebral palsy and it's not, it's, it's what's called generalized dystonia. Mm-hmm. And the dystonia Medical Research Foundation pioneered the work that has led us to discover 19 different genetic markers that are, that in are indicated in different forms of dystonia. They haven't found the gene for, for hand dystonias yet. Wow. Yeah, so, well, I can't wait to see my friends at the mi, the Masonic Institute for the Developing Brain and drop a little dystonia talk on Yeah, we're learning all kinds of good stuff to share now, John. Well, when I was diagnosed, I was, I would get out and, and you know, after I started playing left-handed, I was invited to start speaking all around the world. And, and I would say, I would ask audiences, you know, how many of you have heard of dystonia? And there would be one out out of four or 500 people, there'd be one hand. Back when I started. Now when I speak about it and I ask, have any of you heard of dystonia? I'll get like 20% or 20 times more than that. I'll, I'll get 30 people saying, yes, I have heard of dystonia. That's, no, you just quickly glossed over. When I started playing left hand, that's like burning question. How did that, how does that happen? You know, I'm a like a baseball guy and the idea of going from being a right-handed pitcher to a left-handed pitcher at a competitive level at a competi like world class level. Yes. How the hell does that happen? What a shift in your brain you had to do just a motivational, like what? How did that work? Like at what point did you decide, you know what, this ain't working, I'm gonna. Flip. I told you guys, I, I, I'm in a love affair with my guitar and I, you know, really, it's So You had the feeler up actually. It's, well, yeah. Well, it's, it's surprising though that it took me as long as it, as it did, and people do ask, how long did it take from, you know, when you started to, when you, you know, got out and did your first left-handed show and it was about six years. Okay. But, um, it would've been quicker, but over the first year and a half or two years, I would go at it for a week or maybe two weeks and it would just f it would be so painfully frustrating and torturous for my kids to hear me trying to do this.'cause I was, I was trying to learn, like, like the, the title track from Finger Dance was the one I started with. So I figured if I can't play that left-handed convincingly, then I'm not, I'm well, I'm just, John, think of it this way. YI, I'm, he, he, it's music he wrote and knows, and now he's, he has to do it in a totally different way, but it's all in him. So how frustrating that must be. I, I can't imagine picking up a guitar playing the opposite way. I I can barely play it as is and to do that the other way. Hey, but we, we actually, so what, what a shift in your brain that would be. Yeah. It took a long time. We actually have a listener that left a voicemail question knowing that you were gonna be in the studio. Uh, that kind of leads into this. Okay. Do you mind if, is it okay if I play it well? Yeah. It's a good technology. Let's try it. Alright, let's see here. Hey, kindness Chronicles crew. This is Marty here. I've been loving the show lately. Back when I was in college at UMD with Jeff, I saw Billy play on campus and I've been a fan ever since. Hey, Billy, in your toughest days trying to play again, did you ever want to quit? What kept you going? Um. His name's Marty. Hi Marty. Um, thanks for that question. Um, an unexplainable love for, it's a love affair, man, music and, realizing that I, I wasn't done yet. I just, I, I heard a, a story though that you, you put your guitar in the closet. Yeah, that's a true story. So I'm working on finger dance, like I'm working on it. Like I've been really after like, so during the first year and a half when I was kind of on again, off again, deal with it. Then about about year two, I said, I'm really, I'm, I can't be wasting time. I've either have to do this and really give it my absolute best shot, not knowing what the outcome would be. But I'm working on finger dance, and I had it worked out you guys where I would take the kids. I, at this point, my marriage had fallen apart. Oh, you know, I, I, I had no booking agent. The label dropped, you know, we parted ways and so no income. It was really a, a really tough, yikes, tough time. But I had it worked out that I could get the kids, I would drive the kids to school when, you know, when they were with me. And I'd practice up until lunchtime. I'd go have a quick lunch, come back and practice and go pick'em up around three o'clock. I'd have like about five hours a day, and I would keep up the five hours on the weekends too. By the way, but there was a day when I had spent the whole morning on the bridge section for finger dance and I just absolutely could not do it. And I broke man. And I'm, I'm telling you, you know, what keeps you going? Well, sometimes you, you have, you have to go through those breaks, is what I'm saying. I had to go through'em. I, I literally, I like, I was weeping, you know, like I was just, I, I've been lying to myself. I'll never, nobody could do this is never gonna happen. I'm, I'm crazy and I was so mad. I just shoved my guild, my dread knot into the, the, the front closet. I, I knew it wouldn't break.'cause there's all the snow coats in there, you know, the winter coats are all in there, but you can't break those guitars too easily either. Yeah, the gills are, yeah, they're beasts are so great. They're so awesome. So you punished your guitar for what it was doing? Well, I just threw in the, in the closet and I slammed the closet door, which is right by my front door and I stormed out and, um. I, I said, I gotta cheer my, I'm gonna go have some chicken green curry, man. I gotta have some Thai food. So I went to the little Thai place right up by Kowalski's. And um, Sam knew me, um, real well. And when he brought the bill, I'm looking at that fortune cookie and I don't ever eat'em'cause I have guilt, Catholic guilt of wasting the food. So I never, I don't open them. I never open them. And Sam knew this and he saw me, he saw me open it up. And this is the, the little piece of paper is taped to the dashboard of a very sexy 2006 town and country. Rust Bucket. Sweet minivan. Sweet minivan. And what did it say? It said, many people fail because they quit too soon. Oh boy. That day, boom. That day. That day. I got goosebumps right now. So do I. That's cool. And. It hit me like a ton of bricks and Sam's looking at me like, uh, Billy, you okay over there? You know, because I was, I, I got emotional.'cause I, I, I could not believe that I got that message. Geez. Half an hour, half an hour after doing what I had just did. You threw your girlfriend in the closet? Yeah, I threw her in the Think about what you've done. Yes, of course. And, and so I, I get this message and I go, okay, number one, God does get into fortune cookies. And, and I got, I just got one. Yeah. I just got, that was, to me, that was a message from God, I think it was. And, and that's what she needed to hear either way. Right? Well, well, and so the rest of the story goes, I went home, I got the guild out of the closet. It's never been back in the closet ever since. It's a great story. So I pushed through, I learned that piece, and then, okay, here we go. I'm playing pretty well. And the doctors say, Billy. Well, I just want you to know that all the um, um, writer's cramp people that we had'em learn with their other hand, 90% of'em got dystonia in the other hand. Oh, Jesus. So what? Yeah. So o over the course of it was about 20 year study. Oh geez. Well, that's, We'll talk a little bit more here about, about this, but they said if there's anything you've ever wanted to do in your music career, now that you're, if you feel like you're at that point where you're gonna start playing concerts, whatever it is, do it now. Wow. And the one thing that never happened at USC was they never that incredible orchestral program at USC and an incredible guitar program. And there never was an acoustic guitar, uh, meetup with the orchestra. All the orchestra kids were over there and the guitar kids are over. Yeah. Sort of separated guitar. Yeah. And I was, I was like, you know what? Yeah. I love the orchestra. I wanna do this. I'm gonna have somebody orchestrate my comeback concert. So cool. And luckily, one of the band members, older brothers that was the national composer of Mexico at the time, EO Toussant, took on my project to provide string charts for six tunes that were either relearned pieces where I had, I I I had to transfer it. Right. Or there were some new compositions now that I had. That's nice to have something like that. Absolutely. Yeah. And I, I, I, I had to book the event at Maplewood Performing Art Center. I, I booked it about a year in advance.'cause I, I, I said I gotta have a target. Right. Give yourself some time. Yeah. Put the stink in the ground. Okay. Guess what happens, uh, about then a local filmmaker said, we, we need to, we need to tell Billy's story of what's going. It's a story going on here. Yeah. They know what they're looking for. And so, um, if. We'll, we'll have to talk about how to try to get people access to, there's a couple of documentaries that have been done about me. We'll link them to your website and some of the strategic links there. Yeah. Um, so some of this is Cap is ca is captured on film, but, um, a a longtime fan caught wind of it on, on my website. It must have said something that, you know, there, there's a documentary happening. This guy out of the blue from Connecticut calls me, he goes, Billy, I love your music. I play guitar left-handed too and I can't believe what you're doing. Um, if there's any way I can help with that documentary, if your documentary, documentary crew needs money or anything like that. Or more importantly, I have a full top end editing studio here at my home in Connecticut. I never use it'cause I'm on the road with WWE all the time. Oh, what. Yes. No, Doug, just, I gotta get through this one. Yeah. And this might, this, I might be going over time here. Go, go. It's okay. But here we go. I'm a, I'm a year out from, from an event the documentary is happening and the people working on the documentary realize that the best way to end the show, the documentary, is for me to walk out and be, and, and have live footage. Sure. Like, like real actual moment Right. Of, of, of reckoning in my life. Yeah. Was to walk out left-handed for the first time. And, um, and so along the way Dave is getting the ideas, we're getting to be friends, and I'm talking to him and he's on the road with WWE and we're talking on the phone a lot. And he's in the air, you know, airport after airport. And then he says, when did you say you booked that show? And I said, well, it's gonna be April 7th. Um, of next year. He goes, gimme a minute. Hey, WWE only has four weeks off a year. They do 48 weeks. He said, we're gonna be in Chicago doing WrestleMania the weekend before. And we're off that weekend. The whole crew's off the entire crew. He convinced what? 19 people, two tour buses full of WWE camera guys, audio guys. Wow. Billy, that's, yeah, that's a big production cost. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but it was just unbelievable. I had set the date a year ahead of time and he just goes, I can't believe this. We're gonna, I'm gonna make this happen. And he did it. Dave Taylor did it. And, and that was, that's a, a. A DVD, um, called Coming Back Alive. Yeah. Because I felt like I saw some of the footage coming back alive. It's great. It looks great. It was, you know, the one thing, the bummer was it was about three months before, uh, WWE went to high Res. Oh. So it, unfortunately, that particular documentary was rejected by PBS. It was shown locally here, but because it was, it was res Yeah, but it wasn't high daf. Yeah. And they weren't, it was at that crossover time. So wait, what year would this have been? Um, 2 0 6 2007. Okay. Oh seven. Okay. Yep. Oh six Wow. Oh seven, that period. Yeah. And it took, you know, it, it took Dave about a year to, to edit the whole thing. It took a long time, but he. He did it, uh, pro bono and it pretty exciting music. It's really beautiful. Yeah, it is. It, uh, and they decked out the Maplewood Community Center really well too. They've got a nice background and it looks good. Yeah. Uh, and you've been on CBS this morning, or Gordon Morning America. I think I, I've seen you on Ted Talks and it, you're all over the internet. If you wanted to search on him, you could find more about your story. Are you on a, like a, a Ted Talk kind of tour? A talking tour? No, you know, I only did one. Okay. I did Ted TEDx Atlanta, and which was run by a really, really cool creative guy. I can't pull his name outta the back of my head right now, but he did it like on the fly, like there was no contract. He just said, well, I'm just gonna send you, you know, a check. And I said, that's cool. You know, it was like a handshake deal. The next time I was contacted to do a TED Talk, the contract included language that said anything that I. Say, or any music that I play at a, at a TED Talk, it's theirs. We own it. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm not doing any more of those. Yeah. Wow. I'm gonna come over here and do a podcast with these cool guys. Yeah. You can own this. We don't care. I, I, I find, I find you guys to be very, very kind. You're very kind. Well, that's part of the, that's what we're shoot for. But I have to ask, this is always my favorite question when we're with somebody that, uh, you know, you mentioned Jimmy Jam. Just sort of throw that name out there. And so you've, in, you've encountered some pretty cool people over the years. Well, tell us about some of the, the, the encounters that you've had with what we would consider famous people that were particularly kind. Um, well, I have to go immediately to Jimmy Jam. He seems like a lovely guy. I just, so my high school just had a, it's 100th anniversary two weeks ago. And great high school, by the way, Washburn High School, we give a lot of scholarships to Washburn students. Oh, okay. Well, uh, it, it, uh, it was a formative place for both him and, and I. It was, you know, that being able to play for your peers in front of, you know, 2,400 people in the course of two nights, it's kind of a big deal to mm-hmm. To be. Is he about the same age? Jimmy? Um, he left school in 77. Okay. And I, that was the year that I got to Washburn. Okay. He would've been a senior that year, but, so we were both just inducted to the Washburn Hall of Fame. Cool. And apparently there's the statistics or something like, you know, there's been 80,000. Kids graduated from Washburn and there's only 60 people in the wa in the Washburn Hall of Fame Elite. But Jimmy, but Jimmy, it was so cool. Um, he was so approachable. This is just, again, just two weeks ago, very, very approachable guy I had been at to an event, um, a Tiger Woods event that they, that I played at, and I, I couldn't even get close to him at that time. Those guys were so hot. Yeah. Oh yeah. That you, you couldn't get close to him. Now he's just so absolutely gracious, um, person and, and, um, does he still live locally or is he in LA No, he's, he's LA full time. Okay. But his dad, cornbread Harris is now Hi. Almost a hundred And Palmer's is closing. Yeah. And, and that's been cornbread that his Sundays. Okay. Yeah. So he's only got three more Sundays left over there. But his dad was, was on scene and, um, yeah. Um. John loves to hear about, uh, celebrities and we'd love to see the angles of kindness. Well, I, yes, I did open for Jeff Beck. Oh. At the state theater all by myself. Yes, I did. Cool. But never met him. He wasn't, he didn't show up until, you know, after. Yeah. That's how it works. A lot of times. Been booted up. He seems a little bit like a diva. He just does to me. I know. He is. He was really into cars. So maybe, maybe one of the nicest moments with a famous person happened at Orchestra Hall. I don't know why they selected me, but I was, I was, I asked, Sue McLean asked me if I wanted to open for Bebe King. Oh, wow. Cool. And, and, uh, I'm, I'm out there doing the, my last song and I caught the fact that he was listening to me, uh, where I was gonna be walking off to. And he was standing there just kind of moving his head and everything like that. And I was like, wow, this is like surreal. That's so cool. Yeah. He king. He's looking at you and listening to you. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, everyone claps. I said Bow head right to him. Went straight up to him and I said, Mr. King, Mr. King, I'm so excited to meet you and I have to tell you we have something really important in com in common. And he says, what's that? And I said, we both love the guitar like crazy, don't we? And he said, you write about that. And I don't know what you're doing with that guitar out there, but it is something else. Keep doing it. Well, Billy, and that was all he said. Billy, one of the other things you do in addition to your awesome guitar playing is your theme of just your musical theme. The stories there, there's, there's, and you talked about reggae was an influence and. Bob Marley. And I remember one of the songs was All God's Children and the whole UMD. Oh yeah. People were there singing with you and it was just a cool moment. So that, I just felt that was why you're here. Because not only do you perform and play great music and people love listening to it, but there's a sense of connection and kg and, and the sports connections. And I love that.'cause you're tying in, you know, the kind sports and athletes, but there's also a whole nother creative element that brings in kindness. Um, and that's, uh, it's a, these are just forms of expression, whether you're a great guitar player or you're a great hockey player or a great musician or drummer. Um, so anyway, I just think that's such a cool, uh, the fact, the fact that you brought up all God's children is very, very interesting because the word kind comes as I understand it from. To be kin as to become family with someone. Hmm. And if you're kin, if I'm kin to you, how will I treat you? I will treat you kindly. Hmm. Kindred. Yeah. We're, we're like, we we're, that's where that, that's something Spirit. Somebody should really dig into the, um, history of that. I'm sure Jeff will by next week pretty pretty po I'm pretty positive that that time is, it sounds right. It sounds good. So to be kin it is to be kind And all God's children about the, is about this idea that we're, we're all one family is what that song. And so I was just trying to tie it to the, the Kindness Chronicles here and how. To, to feel like family. Is it etymology? Is that the, the, yes, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Word oranges, etymology is eating intimate donuts or No, that's bugs. Or bugs one. Yeah, either one. So Jeff, uh, intern. Jeff, if you could get on that, that would, would be true. I'm sure that'll, I'll look into that and maybe I'll find some, uh, guests that can help us develop that point further. Even so, Steve, you know, you know that feeling when the, when the band and the audience are so connected that you feel like you've created like an instant family kind of Yeah. Thing. Yeah. That's, that's the goal for every show is to have, to get to that peak, that moment where either you're all singing along together or people are singing the song back to you, right? There's nothing like it. You get in a flow state. Where the, the crowd and you are kind of together and you're, you're doing this thing together. That's the only reason why I do it, Billy is Right. So you can get that thing going. Otherwise, you're just up there looking at your shoes, trying to show people how good you are. It's not about that. It's about, yeah. And once you felt it, you just can't sell. Oh, yeah. For anything less than that, you, that's all you're ever going for. You just can't sell for Michael even, or Billy. Even if it's Michael. Michael, I mean, who's Michael? Even, even if it's, you're having a stroke over there, even if it's one or two people in the bar, when you play for, uh, you know, you're out on the road and you're, you're, you have to, you have to play. You have a show to do. Nobody shows up. You have a bartender or a waitress or somebody who you play your heart out for them because they will go, no one was here, but man, you should see this band from Minneapolis. They're coming back through next year. Whatever. Yeah. It, it does a lot. And you have to find that moment, even if it's for two people and once you've had that experience. So along those lines, do you remember the first time you had that feeling? Uh, you know what it really was, uh, on the stage at O'Shaughnessy Auditorium where I debuted that song on children, it all came together for you, it sounds like. Oh, cool. Yeah. Maxed out a credit card. So maxing out a credit card can be, that's the answer thing. You know, I got no credit card debt anymore, but I did pay that sucker off right away. I was like, but you know, at times Got you through at times. Like I didn't come from a family that had any kind of real finance SA savvy. Yeah. My dad was a, you know, a, a a a salesman, you know, a commissioned salesman. That's all I ever did. Um, but this idea that, uh. Best Buy has to borrow money sometimes. Mm-hmm. They have banks that wanna lend to them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The only thing I had was my credit card. You sure? I went in and tried to get we invested in yourself. Yeah. Yep. And, and, and you do. And sometimes it's a little scary, but sometimes you gotta take that risk and, and bet on yourself. That's right. You know, I'm not, I'm, I am. I'm. Only ever bet on. I'm not a betting guy. I'm so not good at any gambling of any type at all. But I'll gamble on myself if I think I have a good idea to go after. That's what my wife is with shoes, like she bets on those shoes are going to pay huge dividends. Do you have another question from a a fan? Would you like it? Uh, yes, we do have one more. I just did one more question. Okay. Alright. And then I have a final, uh, comment. Yeah. Okay. And by the way, if you ever wanna call the show, uh, yeah. It's shameless plug. Yes. But we have a new voicemail line for the Kindness Chronicles podcast. We'll call it the podcast voicemail line 61. Be kind 22. 61 be kind, 22 or 6 1 2 3 5 4 63 22. So this is for our, our people out there to call, call us if, if you do know, if we do announce who the next guest is, which we don't do that very often. Yeah, we don't know. But give us, uh, give us some feedback on the show. Give us some, so some ideas for, uh, future shows or any kind of feedback you wanna get. We wanna hear anything from people. All right. Here's another, uh, question for Billy from one of our listeners. Hi, kindness. This is Lucinda, daughter of the Steve Brown calling from Cottage Grove. Billy, what's some helpful advice you have for young musician like myself? Let me know. Thank you guys. Uh, I've always said the same thing. When people ask that question, I say, the, the best thing you can do is find your audience and play for them. And it could be two people at the bar, but you have to, you have to get. Out. You can't stay home. You gotta get out and take it and offer it to people. That's how this works. If you, if you're too afraid to get out and do it, you might wanna maybe think of doing something else, but if, if you really wanna go for it, you gotta go for it. Mm-hmm. Go. Everybody has unique, unique gifts. Everybody has unique gifts to give. The, the lesson I took away from you is life works in mysterious circumstances. Way leads to weigh that fortune cookie. Those love that stuff, you know, forcing yourself to uptown and running into the UMD guy. I mean, it just, it we could Crazy. Yeah. I'm sure. And you have a book out? What's your book called? I don't have it. Okay. I thought, I thought, I'm sure, I thought you had a book better transcribed. I was looking for it on Kindle, but, uh, we're ready for it, Billy. We'll, we'll watch for it. Is, is, do you have upcoming shows? Do you have a I do. Um, I'll have, I'll have, uh, most of my current. Larger ensemble at, uh, Hilde Amphitheater this Friday opening for the Rumors and Dreams tribute Project, which is Mary Jane Alm. And Pamela Pamela McNeil. Cool Max. And just such a great, great band. So we'll be doing that. Um, and then we will be in Chatfield, Minnesota at the chat. At the chat Chatfield. Cool. The Potter Auditorium, 600 Cedar. Um, the next big gig in the metro for me, we decided, um, that we would, uh, at the Parkway Theater the night of the full harvest moon that we would, and regardless of what day of the week doesn't matter. This, this year, it's a Monday. Okay. October 6th, which is late for the, for the harvest moon to come that late. It's usually in September, but. What we did. What we did, we've been doing it now for a few years and last year I decided these guys are so great coming out on weird nights, I'm gonna do something nice for'em. So everybody that came out to hear music from Neil Young's Harvest and Harvest Moon albums, it's just the music, it's so Harvest 1971, harvest Moon, 1991. So 20. You know, it's a real wonderful look into the uni talent That is Neil Young. Yeah. It's just, it's really a really cool show. But last year, okay, everyone who comes to the Parkway Theater the night of the Full Moon, the full Moon rose at 7 15, 15 minutes before the show started. And at the end everybody left with a moon Pie. Oh boy. And the selfies of people with my bus, the front of the bus with the full moon right above, above Chicago Avenue and holding the moon pie. So we've got this tradition now where we're looking. We're, we're doing it again this year. Okay. We bought 300 moon pies last year. We're gonna buy 400 this year. And, uh, so that's a big one. And then I've got my, uh, 22nd annual Christmas tour that I self produce. Uh, that will be 11 shows in seven different areas of Minnesota. Okay. It's such a great band too. One of my favorite songs you do is called Into the Light, I believe. Uh, and I, I was, I could not find it, um, around this time when you had your focal dystonia and I saw on your website you were practicing and making the comeback, and then I read a article that you had chosen not to record that. And then it was sort of a lesson, I hope I read this right, but it was sort of a lesson to you, like you never know when something bad could happen and you can't record something, and then you quick went out and recorded it and I found it on like a guitar meditations, um, cd. But I remember reading that you were like, that was a lesson to me when I got Focal Dystonia and I had sort of only saved this song for live performances. Do I have that right? Yeah. It was another lesson that I kind of took away from you reading about that. Well, I had, you know, I come up with some really dumb ideas that I think are really smart. Um, and I had this idea that. I would start my concerts with a piece. This piece you mentioned, it was na it was titled by my friend Linda Williams, um, down in Mobile, Alabama. That's what she said. It made her feel like, you know, she was entering a, a, a beautiful sun. It is awesome. Or something like that. Awesome. Yeah. And I just had this stupid theory that if I started all my shows with that song and never recorded it, that they'd, people would have to come to hear me. if you want to hear that song, you're gonna have to come out to actually come and hear. There you go live. And it was a completely stupid thing. Of me to do. That was cool though, but makes it unique. But the, the cool, the, the neatest version of that is with the orchestra. Yeah. On that, the night of my left hand coming back, I, that was the first one you recorded and I wondered if that was why you did that first. Yeah. So that was the opening piece. Yes. And, and it, it's all about coming into the light. Yep. Beautiful. So you mentioned that you taught at Evans Music and, uh, kind of a fun Evans music story for, for my family, my son Jack, when he was like in fourth grade, he decided I'm gonna start playing the guitar and he was doing his lessons. And I'll never forget, at his fifth grade talent show, he wanted to play the guitar. And what he played was the first like two minutes of Metallica's one. Right on. And every parent in that, like the kids didn't know that, that music. Yeah. But every parent was like, what? Wow. The, and it was spot on. Wow. And Jack had this, I mean, that's a tough little piece to play, Jack. Yeah. At fifth. Fifth grade. Fifth grade. That's, that's fifth grade. He, he was, you know what he did? Do you know what he did after that? Retired? He said he went out on top. He did. He said, that was so cool. I'm just gonna start throwing my baseball more. That's right. Okay, so your children, uh, how old are your kids? Well, I'm married into three. Um, um, Kimmy is, let's see, uh, she's 43. Holy smokes. Just turned 43. And then there's Ashley, who is 40. Then there's Cole, who's 38. Duncan, who is gonna be 33. And Blaze, who's 29. Oh wow. Yeah. Are they all still around? Um, yep. They're all still local. Yep. Local in fact. And my son, uh, blaze lives with me and has, uh, seizure disorders. Okay. Which is not related to dystonia either, but, um, interesting to have neurology be a pretty big topic on you bet on White Bear Avenue. Yeah. Any other musicians in the family? Um, yeah, there were, my brother Michael was a professional trumpet player. I was lucky enough to do one of those, uh, life scapes projects and include him, uh, playing trumpet. He had studied at Eastman, which is a pretty prestigious, uh, east Coast School of Music. Okay. Um, he, he's unfortunately passed, but every, nobody playing professionally. Mm-hmm. Um, but, and you're, none of your kids are involved in music or No. Okay. No. Nope. But my, my youngest blaze, he, he does. A pretty nice John Bonum. Oh, really? S sloppy high hat, kind of. He's got a great, feel fun. That's cool. But I don't know how, if he's you, I wouldn't blame the kids if they didn't really wanna pursue music as a living. I can see why they might have a jaded, uh, or, or, or certainly a, a, you know, an uninformed. Outlook on that. The path is not easy. Yeah. No, it's not. But you've made it look easy and, and have stayed nice and kind throughout the whole journey. For sure. So, well, on behalf of a very grateful, uh, kindness Chronicles crew, I just want to thank you for taking the time generous with your time, you know? Yeah, man, if you even quit hyperventilating, you got so relaxed. It was fantastic. K G's gonna be pissed that he missed this one, but he'll, he'll get over it. Well, tell, tell him I, uh, I, I'm a fan of how he calls the games, you know? Yeah. He's something. We miss him. But we'll get him back soon. Get him back soon. Anything, any, uh, it's, it's such a pleasure to sit down and talk with you, Billy. Thank you so much. And you represent the show well. Very well. Glad to be on it. Thanks. And off we go.