174. The Male Crisis of Connection

We meet with Ben Brown and discuss a growing challenge!

Transcript

0:10

Look, I know that sounds harsh and you need to hear the truth. You're sitting there with a Supercuts haircut, you're getting drunk on watered down vodka cranberries like a 14-year-old girl, and you wearing a 44 when you should be wearing a 42 regular. Honestly, I don't know if I should help you or I should euthanize you. Jesus. Well, welcome to the Kindness Chronicles, where we hope to inject the world with a dose of the Minnesota nice that it desperately needs. Not sure exactly how that clip is gonna fit into today's show, but I bet there's a plan. Jeff Hoffman,, has been, uh, promoted to senior engineer. Wow. Yeah. He has equipped our,, studio for YouTube. He's got. Lights and cameras and, what do you call those screens a monitor, monitors. He's, it's just, it's shocking. And someday we'll be able to, to, to see this with everybody. Steve Brown is here. Hello, Steve. Hi. Hi. Steve has brought the handsome, younger version of himself. Yes. His son, Ben, is with us today because we're gonna be addressing a topic that is related to his people. Yep. His generation of folks. Yeah., Specifically men, young boys, specifically young men. Kevin Gorg has a hockey game tonight. Yeah. Surprise. And I just wanna start by apologizing. Here we go. So last week, buckle up. Buckle up everybody. Last week we did an experiment. The idea was, let's see if we can talk about politics without it getting divisive and we failed. It's, I don't think that it's possible. I sincerely. So here's what happened. Let me fill you in on what? Yeah. Tell us about what happened to the, for our listeners. So I got a call about two hours after the, the, the show was posted from my son, Jack. Mm-hmm. And Jack called me up and he goes, Hey, I listen to your podcast, which I thought was nice. Yeah. Your kids are listening. Kids are listening. Looking out for dad. It's better than me. And check. Ben, we're gonna get to you in just a moment. You keep it down over there. We didn't bring you in the room yet. You heard the saying Speak when spoken to. That's what happens here. This is the pattern part. We, it is an apology actually. Yeah, it's very important right now. This is an important apology. Get to it. Yeah. So anyways, he called and he said, Hey, you know, I understand what you were trying to do there, but. You made some comments that I just don't think were consistent with what you're trying to do with the podcast. And I said, specifically what? And he, he said, you know, as it related to the transgender matter, careful. I'm being very careful. Yeah, yeah. If you were one of the first 143 people to download the, the podcast, you probably heard the comment. If you were after that, I took that episode down, edited it out, and then reposted it. Mm-hmm. And essentially what he said was, while your comment may have been factual as a biological matter, it was completely unnecessary as it relates to the point that you're trying to get across. Okay? And he said, dad, you've always talked to us about, it's important to make sure that you are protecting your brand. And what I mean by that is, you're judged by the company you keep. If you hang around with jackasses, people might think that you're a jackass. True If you true, yes. You know, all those things he said. I don't think this is consistent with the brand of the Kindness Chronicle, so Wow. I appreciate my son, Jack. Listen, that's good. Kind C criticism. Yeah, it was kind critic, constructive criticism. That's what kindness is, man. Absolutely. Thank you, Jack. Appreciate it. Yeah. Feedback is a gift. It is. And we did, we did learn and we, we were walking into that a little bit, you know, nervous about or you know, thinking about it, but it comes down to it. Politics are not kind. No, and, and it's really not our business and not for us to have an opinion. We could talk about politics, but not once we start getting into opinions about politics. It, that's not what we're here for. No.'cause we could go on because then we're just another, yeah. Another bunch of dudes complain. There's ton of shows that are better than we could ever be at that. Yes. So why not on, that's not what we're to do. That's not our, that's not our lane. That's stay in your lane. I think it was important too. For our listeners to recognize that Mike Newcomb was a former guest. He's a guy that we know, and it was just an interesting. What he's doing is interesting as a, as a candidate. So if you quit listening as a result of that faux paw, we're back. Well, you're probably not listening right now, so I'm, I'm, you're relying on word of mouth to say, Hey, hey. Could tell your friends. I'm sorry. Now, Mike Newcomb, flip side of this is I did get some good feedback about the message that Mike Newcomb is trying to put out there, into the world. And, uh, again, I, it'll be interesting to see how he is able to. Navigate the nasty world of politics. Mm-hmm. Without becoming divisive. Yeah. So good luck to you, Mike. uh, Scott Mitchell. Remember, you know Scotty? I know Scott very well. Scott. I like that guy. Scott. Yeah. Ran into Scott at the, uh, what'd he say? Golf course? No, he just says that he, you know, appreciates and he said, you know, Mike Newcomb is a great guy. He known Newcomb from, from college. There's a little buzz among. That group of people that, this might be the time for somebody that's not political, politically connected to a party. Yeah. So to speak. Yeah. That's his, that's his whole bit. That's great. Yeah. Item number two. Yeah. Okay. Before we get to the big, the main topic, I wanted to, did you guys watch any of the World Series? I know you didn't, Steve. No. This is funny. I, I didn't really know what was going on and then, uh, I, I came across it. I was at, uh, the brick house. Right. Oh, I kinda forgot the World Series was going on. What, how, and, and I was at games watching Game seven, looking up going, oh. Is this, the last game is this baseball. We left before the really amazing game. You know, what is the Blue Jays Were ahead. When I, when I, we left the bar didn't work out, so I heard it was amazing. But I, I'm happy that you accidentally witnessed part of the Best World Series, probably since the 91 1 Twins World Series. Ben, do you follow sports at all? I don't really, but my friends are, he doesn't even wanna watch the Vikings with me. I, I want him to get, come down to watch the Vikings know. That's the thing that I, my son is supposed to do with, with his dad. Dad. It is. And I love the energy of football. Like, I love the vibe of football. You know what also I've done. See, that's like me. We, we like voice. Its entertainment. Nice. Comforting. He's got a great voice. She had a great voice. Thank you. Great hair, great voice. Yeah. We're not, we're not starting with him. Yo. Okay. We're not. Okay. What were you gonna say about the world? Wanna talk about the World Series? There is a story that, uh, well, first and foremost. I love the fact that Shhe Otani and that picture Yamamoto are such gentlemen. And what teams were playing John? The Dodgers of Los Angeles and the Blue Jays of Toronto. Toronto, yes. Toronto. Sorry. Toronto. Toronto, yeah. the Dodgers won. And the Dodgers have a payroll unlike any payroll anywhere else in Major League baseball. But they really do seem like a lot of very likable guys. Freddie Freeman, the first baseman, seems like a great guy. Mookie Bets, uh, Muncy, the third baseman,, Clayton Kershaw, he's retiring after this year, and he'll be a hall of famer first battle kind of. But what I was most impressed with is they would have these shots of Yamamoto after a game cleaning up the dugout. Mm-hmm. And Shhe Tani filling up cups of water for his teammates and handing them out to his teammates. There is something about that Japanese culture that is so respectful. I just love it. It ties in with kindness. And my wife, you know, who speaks Japanese and lived in Japan for, uh, for a while. Really? Oh yeah. I didn't know that. Oh yeah. It's so much fun when you go to like a Japanese restaurant That's so cool. Impress. And this little cracker, so impressive starts talking is so, you know, they look at her like, whoa, what was that? So like, when you go to, uh, what's the place in White Bear? The, the, Susie? Uh oh. Sam's Pat Tai. Different. No, no. Not that. This Leanne Gins that is Chinese. You know what that is? Racism. I just trying to think about, I forget it. Wonderful. Asian food that I like, right? Yeah. Anyway, I do like that place. It is fun though when, when we're at these restaurants and Becky all of a sudden will, yeah. Say something in Japanese. They'll look at her like, what is that? I know the shock. I've seen videos with people going through drive-throughs and they're like in shock. Oh, it's the greatest. Oh, it's, it's the greatest. It's funny to see the reaction. Okay, so back to the World Series. So back to the World Series. I was just so impressed with just so don't, here's my just a little side. Don't they have like a people that do that? The wall? They probably do, but his The point is, the point is, yeah. It's sort of the whole Masonic meeting on the level, whether you're the, the guy making$700 million or the guy that's cleaning up after everybody. Yeah. You know what, we're all people and we should all contribute.. Okay. And then there's something most about the World Series. I sent you an an article. An article about it, but you, you should talk through.'cause I didn't watch the game. I just, I just thought that was really, you probably don't even understand what the. Put what the characters are. So there's a picture. Why would I send it to you if there's a relief pitcher? So in a baseball game. There is, uh, you know, starting pitchers. Those are the guys that are on the mound early in the game. Yeah. And those relievers. Yeah. And then there's the closer who typically is out there. Last, and I can tell you Jeff Rearden in 87 was our closer as well as Juan Behringer. Remember Juan Baringer? Yeah. Yes. The Baringer Boogie. Remember that? That's right. So. That's very good. Where's KG when we need it? I know. We need, we need this anyway. You shouldn't have me be No. The point being the sports guy, right? No, there was, um, one of the players for the, Dodgers had gotten struck out by one of the, the pitchers from the Blue Jays, and he was looking up at the big screen to see, the replay of him striking out. And he noticed that the pitcher for the Blue Jays had a 51. Written on his hat. Yeah. And he started noticing that all of these players had a 51 written on their hat. Well, it just so happens that the Dodgers have have a relief picture who was dealing with some significant, uh, personal matters, and they really didn't get into what they were. But the Dodgers players had put 51 on their hats and the Blue Jays guys, without being prompted by anybody, decided, you know what? Just to show our solidarity, to show our support of this person. We're gonna put 51 on our hats. I think I just, it just gives me goosebumps. Yeah, that seems so opposite of what a team would, they were like us versus them. Why we compare, why are we connecting with them? Like why would we do anything? That's pretty cool. It's so cool. That's, it reminds me of what sports, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, I was gonna say I love these examples too because it does show, sports are, are such an interesting example of how to. Help people help you can help express kindness and sportsmanship in a, how you can express sportsmanship. Yeah. And kindness. Yeah. It's pretty, pretty cool. Remember that gal we had for the, um, lupus, uh, yeah. Spiel or whatever it was for the curling spiel? Yeah. Yeah. And KG said, um, I love going to Canada, specifically the kooks, and they have this big. Banner called we're all Kooks and I, it's because of the way they get treated up there and it that reminded me of that when you shared that article is we're all kooks and here they were. P homage. Is that the right way to say ho Homage? I like to say it homage, but you know, I know Potato threw that one up, but uh, yeah. Thank you for taking off your glasses. By the way, John had does some sunglasses on So Bright. If you look like Bon here, you look like Bono in the early two thousands. Pretty pretentious looking over there. Exactly. I don't know what he was thinking. I like to see your eyes so I can tell if you're like. Lying, giving me the, I'm probably lying. Like, stop, Tom, stop talking the chance. If the chances are that I'm speaking, I'm probably lying. Alright. But, I just was really moved by that. It was very cool. Well, and then the last story in that article was the relief picture and Jeff Hoffman. What, wait a second. Y you're not moonlighting as a professional baseball player. Well, unfortunately, he spells his last name incorrectly. He uses one N on Hoffman's. That how, and I use two Ns. That's the correct way to spell. You could always use that spare. Okay. Right. Is that it? Well finish the story about Jeff Hoffman. What I, what I read about that was that, uh, he, um, lost. Unfortunately, the, he, he got, that's right. He gave up the, the, the, the big home run and, and sort of took the blame and said, I, I lost it for my team. I feel terrible. Yeah. And they were on, they were at gun game seven, right? Yep. And it sounds like they started at bottom very dramatic at the beginning of the Yep. They were the whole season and they. Climbed up. Yes. And it must've been a brief, they were last place, last year. Kind of reminds me of Moneyball in that whole story with the Oakland A's. I always try to tie it back to a movie, but, or Major league. You watch too much tv. Um, anyway, the, he was just down and felt terrible about and said, I lo I lost it for my team. And another, a team member I understand, came and hugged him, said Glad Guerrero. And said, I will take a bullet for this guy. Yeah. Like there was a good, pretty cool. Yeah. So. Here's a little twist. Drama, drama. Here's a, for you. There was a study that was recently conducted worldwide study. If you could move to another country, what country would you move to? I want you to try and guess what the top three answers were. Go ahead. Can I guess? Yeah. I would say Canada. Number one. Look at you, Ireland. That wasn't in the top three. Oh. Um, but Canada was number one. Yeah. Was Sweden. Sweden was not. Hmm. This could take forever. So I'm just gonna tell you there's 187 some countries, so we don't wanna sit here all day doing this Argentina number, not Argentina. Number two was Australia. Ooh. And number three. That's a continent, by the way. But day it, but it's also a country. Is it? Okay. See, I School, it's a big rock. It's Forest Lake. I know. That said Forest Lake education. You'll be okay. And then, uh, what was the third one? And number three was, I forgot what number three was. Japan. Oh, okay. Number three was Japan. I can see that. So I just thought that that was very interesting. We were just talking about Japan last night. Really? Yeah. You and Ben. Yeah. Well, what about, well, it's just, it's, you'd be tall there. We would be, yeah, probably the brown. The brown guys are tall in Japan. Uh, no, it's, it's an interesting culture there because they are very strict on like, moving to Japan. So they are very selective. Oh. They have an immigration policy. Very strict immigration. Interesting. Yeah. You can visit What a unique idea. Oh, there I go. Politics. Can't do it. Why don't we bring in Ben to talk about this here. So let's bring a new subject. Let's, uh, let's switch gears. Yeah. Um, I was, uh, watching the Today Show. Surprise. Like I never do that every single morning. My wife said, there is a, a, a segment that you really need to check out. And the name of the guy is Scott Galloway. Scott Galloway and Scott Galloway is recently written a book, I can't think of what the name of the book is, think it was Notes to Men or Notes to Boys. And it's essentially discussing The challenge is almost a crisis that young men are experiencing right now, not just in the United States, but worldwide, but in the United States specifically. he was just talking about the fact that there is a, a, a crisis of, connection among young men. something like 15% of the people, uh, between the ages of 18 and 25, something like that, don't have a single close friend? Yeah. And they were talking about the I increase in Google searches Yes. For things like. How to make a friend. How to make a friend. What do I do when I'm lonely? Yeah. And it's just sad. Hey, I companion. Yeah. And then, uh, they talk specifically about dating. Mm-hmm. And the fact that something like 40% of men in that age group have never asked a woman out. Yeah. in person, people are relying on these apps to connect with people. Said something like, since CO 40% of the bars have shut down. And while some people might look at that as going, oh,, from an alcoholism perspective, maybe that's working out for. The society socially. It's a disaster. Yeah. Socially it's been a disaster. The guy's book is, is Scott Galloway's book is called Notes on Being a Man, modern Masculinity. That's fantastic. That's the name. He's an academic, he's been on, you've seen him on everything. Yeah. Um, he's got strong opinions on all kinds of things, but this is his kind of academic, uh, and I think he's an NYU professor for econ or so. Yes. He's written a lot about this kind of subject and a lot of, he's thrown up the warning flags about our society and where we're kind of headed and what, what. Statistics he's showing are really, uh, kind of truthful and not a surprise, the impact that social media has had on. You know, the, the, this downturn in our social capital, the way that we connect with people, we've talked about this in the past. Yeah. With that, uh, that book, bowling Alone. Yes. Um, and just that people ties in very much with this, but the fact that, you know, people aren't going to church as much. Although my church was packed on Sunday. I was super impressed. I, I feel like people are getting back to church. You know, the church thing, uh, people aren't going into work. You know, they're working remotely. Yep, yep. Um, you're sequestered, you're missing out. You're not joining things, you're not joining the Lion's Club or the Rotary. You don't have to, as far as you can create a digital experience for yourself just staying in your house. That's what these kids, I think, are doing, and it's just easier for'em. And so they're not pushing themself. So why so why are we bringing this up? Well, we're bringing it up. One is because what's our, what's our, Ben is here with us. Yeah. Hello. Ben is here. And I, you know, I really want to get to the bottom of what is wrong with your people. What he's responsible is happening for, he has all the answers with your generation. No, in all sincerity. Um, one of the, the, the, the things that they talked about is when a woman, women are frustrated by this too. Mm-hmm. They're not, you know, the traditional getting asked out isn't happening like it used to. Yeah. And they don't have the skills anymore and the social skills aren't there. And what they said was the most attractive thing in a man, this same study that was done, the most attractive thing in a young man is kindness and a sense of humor. Mm-hmm. So make'em laugh and be nice to him. I think kind to it. I think learning how to make a living too was probably up there making a living. Yeah. Well, I mean, but, but they even said that, that that isn't as secondary critical. Hmm. As just the whole kindness thing. So I feel like it has something to do with what we're talking about. Yeah. It doesn't, I'm just, I'm just kinda helping shape it. But yeah, this is a, a stark warning and. We don't have the answers here, but at least let's, let's talk to Ben. Talk to a young person. 20 year, 21-year-old man from this generation and, uh, so Ben Ben. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to Kindest Chronicles Ben. Boy, thank you guys for having me. Tell us a little bit about what Ben does. Ben, you are a tree hugger, as I understand it. I'm hugger. Okay. What, what does tree hugging mean these days? Well, it means for me, it means going out and doing something about the, the kind of crisis that we're in with our environment. So, can we do that without getting political? Yes. Okay, fantastic. Yes. Um, because there are nuts on both sides of that equation, but we're not gonna talk about that, right Ben? I like where you're at, Ben. You're a guy that's decided I'm not gonna get engaged in the silliness. I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna do what I can. To improve the environment that I'm living in. Exactly. How are you doing that? Um, by joining, uh, volunteer opportunities. Like what? To AmeriCorps. Oh, like the Conservation Corps? Yeah. Uh, we have a Minnesota Conservation Corps here. Okay. Minnesota and Iowa. They're combined. Cool. Um, but they're all over the states. Um, and AmeriCorps, as its own thing is a very wide spanning organization. They have stuff in business and they have stuff. Obviously in the outdoors with the conservation core. I only know about the conservation core stuff. Um, which is what, tell, tell'em a little bit about what you do in Conservation Core. Sure. Yeah. So it's, it's a lot of things. It's mainly, um, habitat re restoration, uh, things like, what do that mean? Like native, like here in Minnesota, I did a lot of work in, um, prairie restoration. Okay. Yeah. We have a lot of problems with our prairies are dying. Um. And sometimes it's even because forests grow in too much. Oh, okay. Prairies don't have an opportunity to get the sunlight that they need. Why do we need prairies? We need prairies because it balances things in our, okay. Butterflies and system. We need, we also need different bugs and space. Right. We need space for rodents to Okay. Kind of hide. Um, I'm not a fan of rodents. Right. I know that it's all part of the John. I'm just, John John's an endorsement. I'm such an endorsement. He's an avid endorsement. Totally. Okay. So you should see me work a remote control. God almighty. It's just, it's a thing of beauty. No, but I understand like the, the and sincerely e ecologically thinking is what? Yeah. So we have a friend who. Uh, Michelle Edelman, who every time we're out visiting with her, you know, we get into this conversation about conservation, conversation about conservation, and she talks about land, bridges, and the fact that if you don't have land bridges, you know, rodents specifically, and again, I have to say, why do we even want ronans? They're disgusting, but, you know, butterflies and, uh, the pollinators and all that other stuff. And then she says. Look at that lawn that people have. Mm-hmm. She goes, you know, that lawn is doing nothing for the environment. I said, but it's so pretty. And I said, isn't that worth something? And she goes, maybe in your world, your indoor, avid indoors man world. It is. But So you're the, you worked in Colorado, I recall. I did. I was in the Western Colorado Conservation Corps. So I was on the most western side of Colorado working in. Uh, grand Junction. That's where I was. Oh, cool. The headquarters was, but I worked all over that area. I would think that's almost like the Harvard of Conservation cores. You'd think Colorado. I mean, I mean there's a lot. There's the Southwestern Colorado Conservation Core, which is great too. They do a lot of great things, but it really, actually, one of the best ones that I've heard is Montana. Hmm. Well maybe you should go there. I, and I'm planning on it. That's fantastic. Yeah. I understand you're planning on going to Montana State? Yes. I haven't looked too far into it because I will be. Living in Montana for a year doing the Conservation Corps work. Um, he's gonna explore his options when he is there. Oh, fantastic. Maybe get residents down. Lemme just give one little detail. Thought was super interesting. When you do with Conversation Con Conservation Corps, when you're out there, you're actually based camping for four days. So you're, it's four, typically it's four to eight days. So sometimes I'm, but yeah, they're, they're camping out on site and they work on trails. They clear trails, they have heavy machinery, chainsaws, all this kind of stuff. And they're clearing different kinds of trails needed. They're building things and stuff, but then they, then they come back, refresh. You know, and then go back in. So they're actually, so you're living outside. So you're at night though. You're going to like a JW Marriott? No, no, no, no. That was just you during That's scouting trips. Yeah. When I would go scouting, when we would go to Boy Scout camp. If I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it. No, they can't. He sleeps on tens. You sleep because I understand you got a truck that's pretty sweet. I do. I I, last year I lived in my truck for six months. You know, homeless people do that as well. Yeah. Or I think the term is unhoused people. It's a whole culture though of, uh, of truck living, especially Colorado, especially people in your, in your community. The conservation court group, they, a lot of people that they go out that way and then they find apartments. They can, otherwise, they can, they have land areas, they can do it. They live there. That's super cool. Um, girls are their girls out there? Yeah. I, I think the greatest thing I gained. From doing all this stuff is the community, like all the people that I've met, and that's sort of why I am pursuing it more so than just my passion for the outdoors. That's. Meeting tons of people from across the states. Like I love, I mean, this is exactly what we're talking about. Yeah. He's, he's socializing for sure. Yeah. This is a really big thing. He's getting deep. I, I don't wanna speak for you, but he's getting really deep bonds and deep friendships with people from all around the country. So he's got, he's got friends everywhere now. They, they can, they're, they, they've shared deep, you know, travels and, uh, you know, situations where it's dangerous and like. They're living on the land, you know, somewhat. So do and I, I, I am sarcastic and I apologize for that. I'm sure you've already sick of me and I get it. I'm not for everybody. No. Um, but like, do you have wifi out there? I mean, can you Oh yeah. Okay. So you can watch Netflix and stuff. I have pretty good service in most parts of Colorado., There's internet everywhere. I saw a lot of those too. It's more so now than than before. Yeah. Yeah. Starlink, that's what it's called. Yes. It's Van Life is huge in Colorado. So a lot of people had those van life. Yeah. Like people living in their vans. Yeah. Which is pretty much what I did. Just down by the river. Absolutely. It had somebody had to say it. Well, you've seen the Salt Life stickers. There should be a Van Life sticker. That's what there is. You need one of those. Oh, there is there. A hundred percent. It's kind of like thug life too, right? Yeah. Yeah. What's that? You've never heard of Thug Wife? I've heard of it, but what is it a thing? It's gangsta. Yeah, gangsta Thug Life. Oh, that's, um, was another show. Another show. Let's have a seizure. Oh, that was some sort of a hand gesture. That's a, a wrap thing. Let's not do that. What I was gonna say was, Ben is a guy that. Because he's lived in this situation. You know, he was a, you know, he was just a suburban kid and all of a sudden he got gained this really exposure to the outdoors. And really, he and his friends camp, camp out a lot. They're camping this weekend outside in the, in the winter. Um, he's a guy that, because he's done that so much, he really has an appreciation for. Um, what showers, what it takes to make a meal. Mm-hmm. Like he has his own little cool grill that he's made lots of great meals on. Like when you're, and, and people tell me this, I don't hunt or anything, but I like to camp a little bit, but I'm nothing like, like here. Well, your Hutchinson gig, didn't he set you up out there when you stayed overnight? Yeah, they did. They, they, that was, you know, glamping pretty much, but Right, right. What I'm saying is, um. You know, there's an appreciation if you're working all day and, and you have something simple as just like some chicken on a little grill and some vegetables, it tastes better. It does because you've earned it. You've worked outside. He's talked about that a lot. Like there's something about that that's different. And so this guy has an appreciation for being outdoors and, and really nature. And he actually takes his time and goes, I gotta go for a hike. He's just gotta get up. I feel the same when I go to Baltimore, like, I have earned this meal. Oh yeah. Right. It's very, it's different, but yet it's the same. It's pretty good. It's, it's pretty good. It's, you work the remote really hard and then you need, then I need to reward yourself at the end of the day. Yes. Let's, but Ben, uh, Scott Galloway in that, in that news report talked about high tech is really kind of creating a dependency among young kids. Mm-hmm. And, uh, specifically young males that are sort of addicted to screens. Have you had any people on your. In your conservation core team that have kind of gotten away from the screen time and the nature?'cause I've just heard that that's the anecdote for that. When you're addicted, it's getting out, walking and just being in nature. It almost seems like they're polar opposites. Yeah. I'll say this, just like what my dad was saying, like at the end of the day the, I don't have much service to like scroll on Instagram or anything. I have enough service to text the people that I need to, but. The, the thing I look forward to at the end of the day is the campfire where we're telling stories, oh my God, we're hanging out. I love this guy. Like it's bringing back the primal like sense of community and enter the entertainment is the other people I'm talking to. It's not like stories access, it makes me wanna cry. Yeah. I'm saying I'm being very sincere. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that is exactly, did it on fire. Seriously. You know what I, you know, it would solve all of our problems. I think everybody ought to spend a year. Doing something like Conservation Corps. Seriously? Yes. Mm-hmm. You know, like in South Korea, you all have to, you know, if you're in a a k-pop band, you have to go do two years in, uh, in the military. It's just like that. It's similar. K-pop is, I don't know anything about that. If you're in a band, you have to do two years of military. Anybody, anybody that's a South Korean citizen. Yeah, no. That brings draft. Yeah. So those draft from Ts, don't you? See, I watch too much tv. I, I don't even know about Kpop. I barely know about Kpop. Oh my God, I'm such a loser. Okay, so they, yeah, they, they, they work all day. They work super hard. They have this really good food. They sit by the fire and they tell stories, and that's where he bonded with these people. They just, they work together. They, they, they're in dangerous situations sometimes and they're operating heavy chain chainsaws. They're carrying heavy gear all day long, helping each other. And he said what they look forward, he looked forward to most, is sitting. And having a fire. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, I would be looking forward to the sitting part for sure.'cause it sounds like it's a lot of work actually. He told me, and, and you've told me this before too, about camping, like sometimes the right chair, uh, you, oh, having be able to sit down by a fire instead of sitting on a log, having a little chair means everything. So it means you're, you're, you're talking about gratitude, simple pleasures. Exactly. Yeah. And, and gratitude is the seed of happiness. So any I totally agree. Yeah. Keep going. I, I am sure you have more stories. Yeah. Tell us, uh, share more about. Your experience with people that maybe are in this Sit Scott Galloway's, uh, um, description of young people. I mean, you must know people that are, that, that are suffering. I do, yeah. I, go ahead. Close friends that are in comfort crisis, almost like they're so addicted to their device, device, their, you know, video games. Whatever kind of instant dopamine that they can get to. Mm-hmm. And I think once you start to break free of that, like instant dopamine and slow dopamine mm-hmm. Like to tie it back to the conservation work, like we're working on projects for weeks at a time. Like sometimes we're driving back to the same project and we're just chipping away at the same trail or the same prairie or whatever we're doing. Um. The, the dopamine hits when you look back and realize all the work that you've done. And that's ultimately way more rewarding than having that. It's a bigger hit than these little hits. It's, it's a much bigger hit and it's more sustainable. Yeah, it's sustainable. Yeah. And it's, it comes with way more than just dopamine. Like it comes with like pride and well, and community fitness. You're getting, you're, you know, yeah. You know, I was probably in the best shape. Is there like a, have you ever seen the, uh, the show Stripes when John Candy asks about, you know, is there a movie in this flight? No. No. On the bus? How's it goes? How's it going, Eisenhower? No. When he says, he says, you know, this is a great op and I'm only being half, you know. Tongue in cheek. What a great way to go out and get something accomplished while you're getting in shape. I always tell my wife she wants to go for a walk. I'm like, I ain't going for a walk, but I'll go out and I'll cut my grass three different directions. Boom. And that's, I just needed John Candy wanted to become a lean, mean fighting, fighting machine after that. The real tough. But you like about a six to eight week training program here, which is perfect for me. Exactly. I likewell a lot of aggression. Lost with a lot of hamburgers. That's right. A lot of pizzas. One with a lot of pizzas. Wait, hold on. I have a question for Ben. So my, I'm really curious about this because I'm, I know you, and I know when you went out there, you maybe didn't have this, but was that a struggle? Um. You talked about chipping away and you had to be like, oh, we're going back here. Like, of course. How arduous was that for you to like, oh, we're gonna do this again, and everyone from your team must've been in the same boat? Like was it a grind at first? Yeah. How, how did, how did you overcome that? How did you start to look back and go, okay, actually there is always hard days. There's always gonna be a rainstorm or you know, and we have to keep working or we have to take breaks because of. Lightning or whatever.'cause we work in very high altitude areas. Yeah. So the lightning is much more dangerous and way more active. Um, but like, yeah, there were times where even when it wasn't raining or anything, it's just hot and exhausting.'cause when you're running a chainsaw all day, the vibrations from the chainsaw actually wear your Yeah. Arms. That's some core strength though, Jen. Way more. And it's also a heavy tool, so it's like. Your arms are dead after three cuts. Yeah. And you have to do maybe a hundred cuts a day and and then do it again the next day. Yeah. And again, the next day. And, and then hauling. Are you hauling? No wonder you jacked. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So, but, but my point, my point though is, um, when you were seeing head and like it, you must have been like, I don't know, like I don't know if I wanna do that. That's where great leadership comes in.'cause we all have crew leads that kind of. Motivate. Yeah, motivate us and the best leaders are the ones that go, listen guys, this is hard. Like this is, I'm in the same boat as you guys and I'm just trying to get through this as much as you guys are. Let's just do as much as we can. Let work together and let's take an extra five minute break today or whatever. Like, that's awesome though. Have a little reward or, yeah. Vulnerability. They're showing that they're vulnerable. Yeah. Vulnerability. Ensures trust, which it leads to leadership. Yeah. What shows leadership, which. Kind of ties into our conversation about masculinity. I think the real look at this guy, masculinity. Oh my God, can you come every week, John? We've got a lot of people already. Come on, stop inviting to, but he's better. He better hear what Ben's saying. He's got crap to do. I'm, he's gotta get out in the woods again. Masculinity. I'm just super impressed with him. He's be 21. 21. Nice kid. Yeah. Nice guy, I should say. Nice man. Do you have a beer? A young man? Yes. Probably had a beer. He had his first beer in Jackson, Wyoming. I did my first and his favorite bar. Awesome. My first beer was at the Cowboy Bar in Jackson, Wyoming. Like your first legal beer? My first beer. My first legal beer. That was his, that was your birthday? That was, that was my birthday. Did you do some line dancing too? Was there a cute, let's get back to masculinity line dancing. This is, line dancing is masculinity. So back to my point. Masculinity. I think to me, and in my experience, it's should be more based around having empathy and integrity rather than being rooted in ego. Like I've experienced leaders too that were like, we're having a rough day, and he's like, suck it up, suck it up, and keep going. Like, this is your job. You signed up to do this. Don't add later. Now it's harder the next day. And I will say there are times where that might be. The required action, but I don't think that that's effective. Like there's a difference between truth and effectiveness. Like a boss or a my crew lead that would say that he's being truthful. That like, you did sign up for this and you have to suck it up. Mm-hmm. But that's not an effective way to be a leader like you should be. Oh my God. You should be more like, you should have empathy and you should have the integrity to be like. I don't wanna break this guy down like I want to, I wanna help him build him up. Yeah. Yeah. That's leadership. Yeah. Yeah. And, and in that's how I am on this podcast guys. We can do this. Well, especially when I'm telling a long story. Is this gonna be a long story? So I may have a patient, I get reprimand in a nice, in a nice kind way. you talk about friends that you know are, are connected to their video games and those kind of things. I sincerely believe that if you, if we go back in time and you look back to when the iPhone was invented, I think from that point on, people became so enamored with their device and now with ai, and I mean this Scott, what's his name? Callaway, yeah. You know, talks about the fact that, People are, it's so realistic now, well, the, the, the product managers of these firms, and I worked for one for almost 20 years. Um, the developers develop it for your attention. They, they, they make it. So that you can't put it down. It's an attention economy and so these product managers are incented to develop products that make you keep clicking and and can't put it down, and they've tapped into the dopamine, the short term dopamine we talked about. They figured this out. And the what's crazy is the CEOs of these organizations don't let their kids on their phone until a certain age. Right. So they know what's going on. They, isn't that something? Yeah. It's just very hypocrisy. Mm-hmm. Oriented. What's the answer? Like, what's our, I think the answer is not, not like Ben. Well, yeah. Be like, Ben, what, which you were saying, um, empathy rather than identity or ego. So, I mean. What should we do as people who are not, we're, we're above that generation. We're older. Yeah. Like, I'm not saying we have all the answers, but what are, what, what do we think we could be helping? So here's what I think from a kindness perspective, I think that as, as adults that have gone through an era where we weren't attached to our devices mm-hmm. We are all probably attached to our devices more than we ought to be. Yeah. But I think that the key is, being a good mentor to, whether it's a mentor to your children or being a mentor to somebody in the community that doesn't have that role model, I can tell you right now, there is a, a young man who I care a lot about. Uh, he was a friend of one of my sons, and when I see what he posts on Facebook, and Facebook is the only thing that I consume from a social media. I don't really spend any time on X or I don't even have I, Instagram, Facebook is pretty much skewing much older, by the way. It's not really young people, but this is a young guy. Okay. Okay. And he's posting some really angry stuff on there. Mm-hmm. And part of it is, I don't think that he has, I, I don't believe that he has a male role model at home mm-hmm. That can direct him in the right direction. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, it's heartbreaking for me because when he posts things that are not divisive. He'll get like 75 thumbs up and hearts and all that stuff when he posts this divisive stuff. Crickets. Crickets. Yeah. Like Two comments. Can't you see that you're going down the wrong path? So I think that, the mentorship, the long answers, this is a long answer. Uhhuh is, look for opportunities to mentor people. I have another idea. Um, it's also kind of just about. Basically bringing this to light and, and people from our generation, I have to understand they're not raised coming up the same way we did. We have to have patience with them. They're not, yeah, they don't have the balance of understanding and Right. They don't have that socialization that they really are craving and need. So we have to have patience for people who are acting out like that and realize. Have some like empathy, like the kid doesn't understand how this works, so someone should help him. Someone should mentor him, but not quickly think all the young kids are idiots or like, you know, they're all trouble. The teenagers are trouble, they're, they're not troubled. They're just teenagers. I always tell, uh, I always tell people when kids are growing up, our neighborhood had a lot of younger kids, and so Ben and Lucy and their other friends hung around. They were at our house all the time. Our house is the place. Everybody hung around. They're loud. And they're kind of obnoxious, but they're not bad kids. I knew all those kids since they were little. I had to kind of help our neighborhood understand they're, they're not, they're not coming around. They don't have switchblade knives ready to hurt each other, right? They're, it's a gang, not dumb rum. And they have cars and they drove a little too fast, but they weren't trying to hurt anybody. They're just loud and dumb. They're still understanding. I want, I want you to watch this, uh, Netflix show called The the Perfect Neighbor. And it's about a woman that gets so mad because these kids are wild. You seen that? Oh yeah. We saw it. Lucy and Ben saw it. The, the it. Horrible. It's terrible. So scary. But it's real. Like I celebrate when I see kids out, across the street, playing catch with each other. It just me warms my heart. They're outside. Me too. They're outside. And you know what, that's the nature. We've got this basketball hoop set up in the backyard and I've had neighbor kids come over and say, can I use your basketball hoop? You can have my basketball hoop. You're like, that's mine. Knock yourself. Right. That's what I say. You get five shots and you get off my lawn. Get off my lawn. No, I know what you mean. It is to see kids outside playing and, and, uh, it's, it's such a, like, yes, thank God no one's sitting on their phone. They're actually, but I think specifically to boys if you're a a woman listening to this show, I'm assuming that if you don't have a son, you have a nephew or a. Somebody in your life is a male. Yeah. And this should be important for all of us because I do think that males have a tougher time. They mentioned the fact that like going to college. Yeah. You know, it used to be 60, 40, 60% of men were going to college. Then Title IX came along, which is great. Of college graduates, this Galloway said 66% of college graduates are women. That's right. Which is crazy to me. So. I look at some of the people that are, your age, Ben, and around your age, and how many of them have never had like a date, you learn how to connect with people. That was a kind of a game with us and was all right. It was all either friends and you're trying to be girls. Girls are trying to meet guys. When I was 19, I was a little, I was more on the shy side, but it wasn't like, uh, I wasn't interested or anything. By the way, I don't think college is the only answer. I certainly not trades. Schools, there's a lot of options for kids that, uh, don't want to go into debt. But the point is, is going to college is a, is an opportunity to connect. It's true, it's a place to connect socially, and it doesn't need to be a four year expensive college. But there are also institutions like Americorp where you can, uh, connect. So how would a person sign up if they were interested in that? How did you find them? I found them through a friend telling me about it.'cause she had some experience with it. But I just went to the AmeriCorps website and I looked at their programs that they had and then I zeroed in on where I could do So it was a friend though that kind of told you about it and got you interested in the first place. Yeah, and now I am, I've convinced a friend of mine to come with me to Montana next year, so. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, so he gets to experience it with me, which is exciting. Very cool. That's very fun.. So this is a very serious topic, obviously. It is. It's very, um, very heavy and very kind of nerve wracking about, you know, future generations. And we're like, where, uh, he was, he's saying like, we're almost like we're divid, we're deciding our own. Just, uh, uh, extinction. We're, yeah, we're designing our own extinction with That's right, guys in their basements, not getting out, not meeting women and not getting married. No relationships, less financial opportunities. Like, you know, like, it's, it's all really scary. But I think, not that we have any answers, except we're thinking, um, like, like Ben was saying, like you're saying mentorship and have some empathy, have some patience for this generation, and understand they've kind of been handed a bad deal here and we gotta help them get out of here, watch them. Well, and my favorite thing that Ben mentioned. And I think it's the most important thing that you did is you invited a friend to participate in AmeriCorps with you. There you go. Yep. Have the courage as a young person to ask somebody to participate in whatever it is, come and play in my volleyball league. There are people that are desperate for those types of connections, but they're waiting for some, they just don't have the courage to ask someone else to do it. Be the person that connects them. There you go. With other people, if you are currently connected, whether it's through AmeriCorps or something else extracurricular that you're doing. If you see somebody that seems to not have that ability to connect, ask'em to participate with you. That's why I try to get people to come out to see my band play. Yeah. I, all kidding aside, that's nice promotion. Oh, there are opportunities for connection. It's a, it's a community, it's a group, it's a connection. And we all rally around this fun moment, this fun night. And you know, I'm, yeah, I'm kind of joking, but, but one of the things that, and I know you're at the dugout again. Yeah. We gotta promote, you know this, this Saturday, right? No, it's the 22nd of November 22nd. Oh, before Thanksgiving. Right? Before Thanksgiving. Oh. Might people make it to that one fun? Because you better first we're an after party here at your house? Yeah. Oh, great. Oh, that's, it's the 22nd. Yes. So we're gonna be at the dugout and here's what I thought was cool about your, see, see, Ben, how I have to sneak in my promotions. Oh, that's fine. You're making a lot of money on this podcast. Oh my God. What are you gonna do with all of it? The last time that I saw you there, obviously there's a whole bunch of middle aged people that are out there trying to relive their glory years. But your daughter, but you keep coming out because it's, but your daughter was there with a whole bunch of her friends. Yes. And I just looked at that group Not just that they're coming to see the old man play. No, but the fact that they're out there and they're, they're having good, clean fun. They all came to St. Cloud. The whole gang came to St. Cloud too. I know. It was the funnest for me, extra pride, just swelling. But how fun is this to, to see, uh, young people Yeah. Out on a dance floor, watching band, watching live music and, and being involved and taking a trip up to St. Cloud and going to Hutchinson. They came to Hutchinson too. Well. As proud as you are of having people up at that thing, you gotta be really proud of this guy. Incredibly proud of this guy. I'm serious., That's why I thought he was a perfect guy to help. Oh my God, he's just the perfect guy. And tie in well spoken and seemingly smart. Considering your genetic disposition. I know your mom is a delightful person. She's the smart one, actually. Of course. I mean, clearly. It was great having you on. Thank you. And I would love to have you on again before you go to Bozeman. Yeah, I'd love to. Or maybe if you can give us a report out there and give us how this, how it's going. We can call in and that'd be kind of cool. Sure. I or after whatever, be on that monitor. That's right. We can, we can dial you in from the, the campfire. Let's do it. If we've got the bandwidth, we can pull that off. It'd be fun to talk to your people. Well, I hope that we've recovered some of our listeners from the, uh, the political disaster that anyone could help us. It'd be Ben Brown right here, Ben Brown. Yep. Cool. Name too. Yep. Seriously. Well, with that, I guess, off we go. Thank you, Ben. Thanks, Ben. Thanks Ben. Thank you guys. Here we go. The. Been playing this game for 10 years and you got two more quarters, and after that, most of you will never play this game again as long as you live. To me, being perfect is not about that scoreboard out there. Being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down because you told'em the truth. And that truth is, is that you did everything that you could. There wasn't one more thing that you could have done. It's a long story. If you do that, gentlemen, then you're perfect