179. You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! w/ Dr. Quentin Schultze

Fun guest ALERT! Dr. Quentin Schultze, author of "You'll Shoot Your Eye Out! Life Lessons for the Movie A Christmas Story joins the KC Crew for this Christmas special 

Transcript

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That's for you. Kg. Welcome to the Kindness. Chronicles where once again, we hope to inject the world with a dose of the Minnesota kindness. That it desperately needs. It's like a snow globe out there in Minnesota today. The snow is coming down like crazy. Mm-hmm. We've got a really special, I think our first return guest. Yes. We've done 180 some episodes and this is the first, uh, recycled guest. Uh, we got great response. We didn't get enough of'em, so, yeah. Well, and it's, and it's, you know, the topic is very, uh, germane to the, to the season, but yeah. Yeah. Kevin Gorg is on with us. Hello Kg. Hello, Johnny. Hello. How are you? We got Steve Brown. Hey. Hey, Steve. Why don't you introduce your friend? I, I brought my, my good friend, my old pal, Steven Russell, who's from San Francisco, and he hasn't been back here for 14 years. He's a, a fellow songwriter. He and I wrote a lot of the songs that, that, that my band has been playing for many, many years. So just an old, old friend and we're having a great time visiting and hanging out stuff. Very old. He's very old. Very old. And, and we have, uh. Our senior engineer, also vice president of technology, uh, Jeff, Jeff Gman. He just keeps getting promoted every week. Yes, I love it. Uh, it's like a field promotion, is that kind of how it is? And then we've got, uh, I'm just happy to be here, so I appreciate it, John. Thank you Dr. Quentin Schultz. We're gonna get to him in just a second, but Kevin, you were on a, uh, a, a trip with the wild and I think they split. Yeah. Two and two. Is that how it went? Yep. Two, two, which, uh, again, when you go on the road, that's all you can hope for is try to play 500 hockey or better. They got, they got away with it. They lost, uh, a couple of players to concussions last night. Yeah. With Duke and Middleton likely out for the week, which is a bummer. But, uh, they bumped the flight up a little bit today because of this, uh, winter storm we're receiving. So we were supposed to land a little closer to five, but we landed at three. And, uh, everybody got home safe. And, uh, I've been looking forward to this episode all week long and, uh, yeah, great to be back home after nine days on the road. Nice. Well, welcome home. And Jeff, you have a prepared introduction. This is big. I do so we'll. Uh, and then we'll let Dr. Q maybe comment a little bit on the background music, so hopefully the sound works. And here we go. All right. Today on the Kindness Chronicles, we are welcoming back a friend of the show, Dr. Quentin Schultz. Quentin is a communications professor emeritus at Calvin University and has authored or edited over 30 books. I first discovered Dr. Schultz last Christmas on Mike Rose podcast where he talked about his Amazon bestseller. You'll shoot your eye out life lessons from a Christmas story. And he shared the incredible backstory of his relationship teaching storytelling with the great Gene Shepherd, the radio storyteller who wrote the original concept in screenplay for the film. Dr. Schultz joined us for our July 4th episode after I had realized that Shepherd had written the Great American 4th of July and other disasters. Which I had seen back at PVS in 1982 when I was 12 years old, and I always remember it around 4th of July timeframe. So here we are several months later in the heart of the Christmas season, it feels like the perfect time to bring Quentin back to talk about shepherd's world, the enduring charm of a Christmas story, and why these simple, funny, very human stories still bring people together. Oh, and the music back in. Let's get into it guys. Please help me welcome back to the Kindness Chronicles, Dr. Quentin Schultz. Oh, he hit the mark. Nice. How about that? He hit the post. The guy's a professional. He is the vice president of, I'm just doing the best I can. Vice president of technology. Welcome, sir. Welcome back. Thank you. Very nice introduction. Wow. I don't know who that person will. Well, I learned from the best in Sounds good. My virtual communications professors, Dr. Schultz. So thank you for your teaching. Yeah. Little AI there to make it up. That sounds great. That's right, that's right. That helped a little. Well, I just want to start by, uh, by sharing with our audience that, uh, if you're a fan of a Christmas story after having read this book, it almost should be. Like required to read the book. I'm gonna hold the book up here. There it is. It's all dogeared and marked up. Uh, I took notes as I was reading it, but it really is. You know, obviously you are a, a, a master storyteller, and when you have a storyteller telling the stories of another storyteller, there's a lot of storytelling going on there. But, uh, man, I just really appreciate the, uh, the, the twist that you put. I I'm gonna watch the show very differently the next time I watch it. I think, I think we want to bring our, our listeners into understanding where, what the connection is. We need to hear from Dr. Clinton for Yeah, exactly. So, Dr. Q, could you, could we. Could you provide us a backstory about who Gene Shepherd is and maybe with that intro music I used and the significance of that? Yeah. Okay. The intro music is what Gene used on his radio show on the station WOR in New York, which is uh, so-called Clear Channel Station when he was on for many years with his nighttime show. Which was basically stream of consciousness or stream of consciousness storytelling where he told stories, including the, the different kinds of stories that, that make up a Christmas story of the movie. Uh, he was enormously popular and, uh, he liked that, uh, Bon Fry Overture because it, it means basically. Uh, clear the track, doesn't it? Yeah. Clear the, clear the track. Get out of the way. Uh, here, here comes Gene. And, uh, you'll never be the same again. The train is coming down the track, and so he would, he would run that all the time. In fact, I just recorded, uh, uh, a live video I did about Gene and I used that for the, uh, opening in the live video. Because it's, it's so related to him. But he, he had a phenomenal audience. Uh, he, uh, at night with his show, which you could pick up with a decent AM radio all the way to the Mississippi, and then up into Canada and down to Florida. And, uh, he became a sensation through that radio show. And along the way he started doing other things, like, uh, writing up his stories. And so he, he did novels. Uh, he started writing screenplays, a number of them for PBS. He had shows on PBS that were basically like he would do on the radio with telling stories. Gene Shepherd's America was one of them, and he did Broadway. He was, he started on Broadway at one point. He was the only person that I could find. As a new communication professor who was not only a fantastic storyteller, and I mean really, really good, but he could take the same basic story and figure out how to convert it to every medium so it would work in each medium, including him alone On stage where I had him come to town and in an hour and 45 minutes, he told one story about something that happened to him in school. And he acted out all the characters himself with no props, using only his body and his voice. It was stunning. So he is one of the great storytellers of the 20th century in the United States. I would put him in the top three or so. Mark Twain would be number one, but Mark Twain died in 1910, and so that's who he was, and he became phenomenally well known, but. For those on the West Coast and didn't have access to his radio shows over the year, though most of them are online now. Just look up Gene. It's JEAN Shepherd. He hated that Gene. Yeah. But Gene Shepherd and you'll, you'll find all kinds of his radio shows that are posted and you can listen to them, but a lot of people didn't know about him. And even to this day though, a Christmas story, he wrote this screenplay for the movie, A Christmas story about Ralphie. Who wants the Red Rider BB Rifle? Uh, that most people don't know that he wrote the screenplay and they don't know that he is the voiceover. Yeah. Playing the older Ralphie and, and it's not a narrator, it's actual person. Actually, Dr. QI have a little sample. Let me play one. Okay. The entire neighborhood was turned on. Oh, you should see what that looks like from out here. It could be seen up and down Cleveland Street, the symbol of the old man's victory if he won that. It's a major award. There you go. Wow. His voice was just, it makes it, his voice is Christmas to me. Yes. You know? Yeah. His voice had an incredible voice. Uh. He was born with a great voice. Really? And, and so you think of him then as not only writing the script, but he wanted to get across certain messages and he figured that by playing the older Ralphie. Commenting upon what it was like when he was younger and what happened with the rifle and other things, a leg lamp, and all the rest that he could really get at the points that he wanted to make. And so he insisted that it had to be him and not a narrator. And so you can actually listen. That's, uh, movie without seeing the images. Yeah. And you'll find it funny. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. So I want to level set something too. Our listeners heard this in the past when we talked to Dr. Quentin, but can you give us, uh, how you, how this, the quick version of how you got to, uh, know him? What, what's your connection with him? Yeah. It's actually pretty simple. Thanks for asking that. Yeah. I was a new communication professor. In the late seventies and then into the early eighties. And I realized in the research that the most potent form of human expression is story. If you can tell a story, you can inform people, you can persuade them, you can do all kinds of things, but it depends on being able to tell a story. Well, it's one of the defining characteristics I think of, uh, what makes a. Human being. A human being. Mm-hmm. The enjoyment, uh, of story. So I wanted to know how you tell stories. Well, and I couldn't find any textbooks that were any good. Textbooks were all just awful. Among other things, they didn't use stories to explain how stories work. You know, it was all this goofy theory. So. Uh, I had listened to Gene back in the seventies, growing in late sixties growing up in Chicago. I could pick up WR Radio and listen to him and I thought, this is a guy I wanna learn from. How do I get in touch with him? And I knew he was a ham radio operator because he said that often. And I was a ham radio operator too. And there's a federal database that you can look up any ham operator and, and get their address. And I, so I got his address. I wrote him a note and I said, I'm a communication professor. I don't know how to tell stories. So you're the master. And, uh, I'd like to learn. And so he wrote back, he said, you're outta your mind. Uh, you know, he, he said, you, you have to really work at it. This is not something I can quickly teach you. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it's not like. Uh, picking up a textbook and learning. Uh, but he, so he said, if you're serious about this, we're gonna have to spend time together and you're gonna have to watch what I do, and then you're gonna have to listen to how I explain what I do and why I do it. And then you're gonna have to practice it over and over again. And he thought that would be the end of it. But no, I wrote back and I said, okay, Mr. Shepherd, let's do it. I am hereby inviting you to come to my university and we will co-teach storytelling, which will really be all your stories.'cause I had practically everything that he had been doing copies of it and knew it. And we're gonna use your stories. We're gonna invite any student of any major that wants to learn storytelling. And so that began a relationship with him and. And teaching storytelling for a number of years. He died in 99, and the last I communicated with him was about a year and a half or two years before that we were gonna do the course again, even that late in his life. And, um, unfortunately his health was really getting bad and I didn't know it. And his wife passed away shortly after that. But the last thing, uh. That he, he wrote to me, he would write letters that his wife would do on the, on the computer. Um, he didn't use email and all that stuff, but he, he said that he was doing a, a story based on a used car salesperson called, uh, working at Qua Quentin's, used cars. Okay. And he, he would always take people that he knew and put their names in nice for, and, and, and, uh, I, I wrote'em back and I said, Jean, I don't get it. Qua Quentin. And he said, well, it's very simple. He said, you professors are all the same. You're like used car salespeople because you just take age old ideas, wisdom. And you repackage it in new language and you get promoted to assistant and associate professor and you get tenure and old, but all you're doing is recycling. You're selling old cars. So I said, oh, I was just gonna say, keep going, keep finishing your story. And I have, so yeah, I was just gonna say the end of the story is that he's absolutely right. You know, I, I have to admit that. I was just gonna say that, um, there's been so many times that this show and the co-hosts of the Kindness Chronicles remind me of some of these, uh, things you've shared. For example, the c plus Ralphie gets. That was, uh, a real life story. Gene got a C plus, didn't he? In English. And John got, what did you get in biology, John? In college? I, I got a six. Do we have to talk about that? I got a six out of a hundred. Well, here's, here's, you talk about it a lot and it changed the career of your life. I know, but here's why. I think it's relevant, because Dr. Q said a Christmas story's all about pursuing your dreams. And that professor helped guide you from biology and pre-med to sales. So tell the story, chapter three. Be flexible. There you go. There you go. So, you know, one of the things that I loved about this book, I mean it truly is life's lessons in this book and chapter three, be flexible. Uh, your, your story that you brought up is exactly right. Uh, Quentin, I was a, uh, I wanted to be a biology major, not because I enjoyed biology or I wanted to be a doctor, but I thought it would impress girls that I was pre-med and I took my first biology exam. I got a six out of a hundred. I went to the professor six and I said, Dr. Or uh, Dr. Dr. Cher was his name. I don't think this is for me. And he said, I don't think it is either. Why are you a biology major? And my quick answer was girls, and he said, you sound like a marketing major. So I walked down, uh, Aquinas Hall and went to the, uh, nice change to a marketing major. And John is a very successful look at, he runs this successful, he's a CEO. Yeah. Wait, he's doing great things with his life. So Yeah. But it that's a great story. It and, and, and, and truly, when you look at this, can we just go through this book a little bit because I think do, it takes you through the movie. You know, uh, Jeff mentioned Pursue your Dreams and you know, you, you, in the book, you describe, you know, Ralphie has this dream of getting this, this particular toy, this gun, and regardless of, and being a savior. Yeah. And, and being the savior. Yeah. And, you know, saving his family from, you know, black Bart, from black bart. But you know, he. He put, so he put so much into it. He wrote that, uh, his wrote his deal that he got a c plus on, but it didn't deter him. Santa Claus, you know, puts his boot in his face and pushes him down the thing, and that doesn't deter him. And he, and he shoots his eye out and that still doesn't deter him. So I just, I thought, thought that it was, you know, yeah. To, to, to, to be tenacious and to pursue your dreams. Yeah. Yeah. But don't let them become obsession Yes. So that they interfere with the rest of your life. Well, and that, you know, the, the curtail your obsessions is chapter two. And, uh, Quentin, I'm a Freemason secret handshake guy, and one of our, you know, our goals in, in communicating with others is to whisper wise counsel and to, you know, curtail your obsessions. Hmm. You know, don't, uh. Don't let those things interrupt, you know, the rest of your life. Um, and, you know, I just think that again, great. The way that you interpret is, is your interpretation. Is it your interpretation or did you get some of this from Gene? Like was he explaining, did he help you navigate the, the, the stories behind this, uh, movie? Yes. Yes. As far as I know, I'm the only person alive or. Passed away. That gene opened up to both about how he told stories, and as a parabolic storyteller, that is stories that work on two levels. There's what you see and hear and all, but then there's this meaning, this overarching meaning like pursue your dreams or curtail your obsessions or whatever. So, so he had a worldview gene did of these different things that he believed were true truisms and, and like he was a professor or a, I compared him often to a theologian. So yes, these are. The, the life lessons that are form his worldview. There are four more that I didn't include in this book because they're not as much connected to the movie. But when you look at the, the whole of gene's work across the different, uh, media. What you find is that they all use these 24, uh, one or more of these 24. Yeah. So it's gene's brilliance. It's not to say that I agree with every one of them. Exactly. Okay. Uh, there are some things that he gets into particularly about the differences between male and female and all that are very, really important. But, um, or him, he reversed the stereotypes that are typical for what makes males and females different. And, uh, so in that kind of case, I did not include it in the book because, well, I included a little bit of it, talked about it a little bit because women are, moms are always the heroes in his stories because women are practical and, uh, and they solve problems that men create because men are, are romantics at heart. They search things, they search women, they go after women and then substitutes for women like a rifle or a car or things or a leg and then, and then women have to bail'em out. So yeah, they're basically Genes lessons. I had to decide how to define them because when I would talk with Gene about it, he would give me a two sentence answer. You know, of, of what that life lesson is. And I'd say, okay, now I gotta get that down to something that I can do in a book. That's for people who like the movie or should like the movie or at least see it so kick. So it's. Go ahead. I was wondering if we could just go around and, and you know, there are scenes from that movie that are iconic. Mm-hmm. And, you know, icon Iconic is overused at times, but this truly is an example of a movie that has become synonymous with Christmas. And, you know, I'm gonna start, I, you know, the, the scene at the very end of the movie. When, uh, the family, you know, the, the, the Bumpus dogs come and steal the Turkey and they end up in the, uh, the Chinese restaurant. Yeah. And in that Chinese restaurant, you know, there, uh, them pivoting to going from, you know, the, the Christmas, Turkey. Yeah. But I mean, there is an example of being flexible. And, you know, that's one of my favorite scenes, the far rah rah rah rah for obviously for obvious reasons. But can you, uh, Quentin, can you tell us a little bit about that particular scene and what he was trying, the message he was trying to share through that? Yeah. Uh, gene, uh, in the original script, I have both the original script that he wrote and then also what the script became that they shot from. Okay. And then, uh, but my conversations were primarily with Gene in terms of the original script. And he wanted to do something when the, uh, Christmas dinner, the Turkey was stolen by the Bumpus dogs bump sounds. He wanted some funny transition. That would also say something, and I'll tell you what it says in just a minute, but, so he came up with this idea that they went out to, I'm trying to remember if he just, he wouldn't have said Asian. I think he, in the original script, he said Chinese restaurant. No, I think he said Cho Suey restaurant. It was a Cho suey restaurant. Yes. Yeah. He, he said, chop, you're even less politically correct? Yeah. Oh, you know, so much of this movie is politically incorrect, and yet it's the most popular movie in America. 50 million. Yep. See, it's real. It's real. So he came, came up with this thing, and then the designers, uh, came up with what the restaurant should look like. And the sign, uh, that just is a joke. It's bowling, it's like a bowling alley with the w. Uh, not working and, uh, the, uh, difference between the name up above and the marquee and then what it says on the door. And, and so, and then they wanted Jean's idea was that you have to be flexible. Because often these things that you think are gonna be so great, like this Turkey, he's salivating like Pavlov's dog with this Turkey that his wife is making and he's going in there and trying to take pieces of it and she's saying, stop, you know, you'll get worms. It's not done. And, and uh, so it's this great letdown when the dogs come in and the old man is left with one little wing. You know, you wonder so pathetic if he gonna eat that or sitting there holding that wing. Yeah, he tosses it and, and, and then he says, Hey everybody, we are get dressed, get upstairs, get dressed. We're going out to eat. Because what Gene wanted to happen was that they have a great time. They lose out on this wonderful dinner together, but they go to a restaurant where Christmas, they're the only people in it. Yeah. And the proprietor and his family or whoever's working there are great people and they want to bring joy into the life of this family that came there on Christmas probably thinking nobody was gonna go there on. Yeah. It was the magic of Christmas Day and it took a kind of a grinchy old dad and made him soft and nice and charming and flexible. Yeah. And what I loved about the movie. Is the, the actress, the, the actress that played the mom. Mm-hmm. Melinda was not aware of the fact that this bird that they were gonna put in front of him would have the head. Oh, really? And when they chopped the head off, that was her. She, that was not in the script. Right. And they kept it, the director wanted her to. Have a, a genuine reaction to that. Yeah. Bird getting its head chopped off. And that was one take. Wow. I mean, it's so damn funny. Yeah, it is great. Yeah. Yeah. I think I put that in the book, didn't I? I think Well, yeah, that's why I brought it up. I wouldn't have known that if it in the book the, uh, I forget sometimes what. Things I did and what didn't. You know, I, I didn't want to write too long a book with too much trivia stuff. But yeah, that was great. And then the kids didn't know, and Melinda di Dylan didn't know. But of course the old man, uh, uh, uh, Darren Mcg playing, the old man knew Bob Clark. The director told him what was gonna happen and that, uh, uh, and so, and Darren would kind of mention, uh, nonverbally to the. To the family there that, you know, this thing came on that had a head on and, and so on, you know, and like this and, and, and then the understanding, the nonverbal rules there.'cause it would ruin the gag if he said what the problem was. Yeah, then, then the, the proprietor takes that. Cleaver and Kabam and Melinda Dillon goes crazy. Uh, Bob Clark was brilliant about that. Just brilliant. Did. And what's funny about Bob Clark? Bob Clark, just for, for everybody's information, he, um, was the director of the movie Porkies. And they got him to do this movie, or he got them to fund the movie if he promised to do a porkies too, which is just hilarious. But Jack, wasn't Jack Nicholson going to be, wasn't he approached to play the old man? And Gene Shepherd said, no, no, no, no, no. Well, it was, he was too expensive. More than the budget could even allow. So I'll let Dr. Q share, but then I want talk about Seinfeld too, and we bring KG into this. Wait before you, the thing is that, uh, you, you have these studios out there that give you money to make movies, and these studios have all these executives that make phenomenal amounts of money. They think that their wisdom about what's going into a movie is better than what the screenwriter or director could do. See, and so they, they said, well, if we're gonna give him some money to do this film, which we don't wanna do anyway, you gotta have a big star in it. Mm-hmm. And so we're suggesting that you have Jack Nicholson and, and Shepherd and Bob Clark both were furious over this because they didn't think that Jack Nicholson could play that old man. And I, I would agree with that. And so. But then they went through the agent to find out what it would cost to get Jack Nicholson. And it was more than the budget of the whole movie. Oh my God. So that was the end of that. And uh, Steven, you had a comment? No, I was just gonna say about, uh, favorite part. No. Bob Clark, you also did Black Christmas. Really? Huh? Yeah. It's just like a, yeah. Really? Yes. Horror, a horror film with, uh, uh, um, Margo Kidder from Superman. Oh, wow. I think that, and some people from SCTV. Huh? The, that's, that's a cool back story with him. And sadly he passed away early. But, uh, um, what I understand is Bob Clark heard Gene Shepherd talking about the, the, the tongue on the pole, uh, radio, uh, story. And that's what said, who is, he said, who is this guy? I've gotta like write a. Stor of that, that began his process of seeking out genes. Similar to how you did, but could you talk about compassionate storytelling? Because that's really, I want, I wanted to ask about that and how it ties into Seinfeld, because I've heard KG asks some really good questions of some of our guests in the past. He's interested in kg, I don't mean to speak for you, but let's let Dr. Q talk about that and then maybe the two of you could interact a little. Yeah, so the, uh, the, uh, first of all, gene would say he's was not a comedian, he was a humorist. And the difference is that comedy has a lot to do. With slapstick, with one-liners, uh, with nasty language. The one-liners are often put downs. Even if you watch a lot of situation comedies, the one-liners are really somebody putting down somebody else, and then you see a closeup of their face reaction shot. Mm-hmm. He did not think that was really funny. And most of the sitcoms, and I'll just bored him, he said, the humor comes from the whole story, the whole situation. The characters in the situation. And, and that's where, where you get this humor and he said, you always to, to do real humor. You have to do it in a way where you're not putting down the characters, you're not making fools of them, but you're helping the audience, the listener, the viewer, the reader, to have empathy for them and to have compassion toward them. Um, and, uh, compassion, literally meaning to suffer with them as they go through whatever they went through. And he, he said often in lectures to the students that you should not write humor about anyone. A made up character, let's say, that you don't also love. Mm-hmm. You gotta love them. Hmm. And, and so he wanted that in the stories. And so people often say to me, you know, why is a Christmas story so popular? And the fact of the matter is that everybody loves all the characters, including to some extent the bullies. Yeah. Mean even the bullies are dealt with in a way where they're, they're not totally bad people. Yeah. They have little moments here. Yeah. And so, uh, that, that, and so in the back of the book, I do an appendix. Uh, where I lay out the way that Gene would develop a story in this compassionate storytelling from the beginning, he would see somebody do something or hear something, see an article in the newspaper or whatever, and then around that he would start building a story and he would use names that have double meanings or triple meanings and so on. Like Scott Farkas the Bully mm-hmm. Is named after the Scud Missile System. Oh geez. The Soviet Missile System. Uh, because Gene believed that authoritarian regimes are basically bullies. And he came up with that during the Cold War, and he added to it that, uh, Scott Farkas had yellow eyes and the Russian cat has yellow eyes. So there's the Russian thing. Oh, yeah. And, and also the goggles that the Soviet, uh, pilots wore during World War II were, uh, made them what? Were called by Americans and others yellow eyes.'cause they were yellowish goggles. And so Gene would put this stuff together working on two levels. Hmm. One, the, the international conflict and all with bullies. And then he would come up with a, a more kindly neighborhood bully and put it in there. Kevin. Uh, our KG is our. I guess you'd call him our resident Seinfeld expert. Yes. And, uh, Jerry Seinfeld talks about the fact that, uh, gene Shepherd was quite a inspiration for him. He was a big fan of, uh, of Gene Shepherd. Kevin, uh, give us your, you know, your favorite scene from, from, uh, the, the Christmas story and, uh, tell us a little bit about the connection, uh, that you have to Seinfeld. Well, I think the two are really similar in the way that the characters are developed on Seinfeld. That love that Dr. Q just talked about, that you have for these characters, even the lovable, you know, kind of the buffoonery like George Costanza and, and Kramer and some of their trials and tribulations. I look at this movie the same way the the dad for me. Makes the movie and you know, my father and I are movie a Holics, and when this movie came out, I was a sophomore in high school in 1983 and my dad took us all to see the movie. And it was somewhere around the holiday season. It was after Thanksgiving, but I know it was before Christmas. And the scene I always go back to, uh, it's, it's one of the most iconic scenes in this movie is. When the leg lamp arrives in the fraile box and mm-hmm. That guy is my dad. Like that, that is exactly Kenny Gore special prize. My dad, when, when that lamp, you know? And he's so proud. Even though it's a com, you know, and I could just see my mom like just, you know, grimacing in utter. Pain that this is gonna go in the window in, in our neighborhood, but that's exactly what my dad, how my dad would've done it. And it, it, that, that five to seven minutes to me is what brings me back. To my childhood and makes this movie so sentimental for me. And we actually one year, many years later, got my dad one of those replica leg lamps and he proudly, uh, used to bring it out every year for Christmas. He's in assisted living now. He is, he's got dementia. But I'm telling you right now that that scene, um, tugs at my heartstrings as much as, uh, makes me giggle. Kevin, you mean every time I see it? Do you mean this one? Uh, fragile. It must be Italian. This is fragile. Oh, yeah. Well, and you know what's so, what's so fun is the fact that, you know, the reason that the old man got the major award is because mom. Helped him finish the crossword puzzle. That's right's. Right. So mom was the hero. Yeah. The hero. Yeah. She was ultimately the hero of the story. And how about when the, when the leg lamp got broken, can you, you, can you enlighten us, uh, a little bit on the, the what that broken leg lamp represented for Jean Shepherd? So the, the leg lamp, of course, you're exactly right. Uh, mom knows this, uh, bit of trivia that's relative to a, a contest in a Chicago paper. Uh, I think they say Chicago, but any rate, uh, newspaper in northern Indiana, Chicago, and she knows it. And so the old man is, sends in this and one of his dreams. Is to win a major award. And it turns out that he wins this major award. Now, of course it doesn't say anywhere, but we all know that everybody was able to submit the answers. Who got this right? You know, probably 2 million people in the area that got it right and out of that raffle, he gets it, but he thinks he's the only one. See, the, the old man is this kindly guy, but he's not real smart. You know, he's just not real smart. And so, at any rate. He gets the lamp, it arrives, his major award and, and he opens this up and as Jean said to me one day outta the blue, he said, well, you know, that's a trophy wife. I said, Jean, that's a trophy wife. He said, yes. He said, just, you know, again, this is his worldview that men fall in love with women or substitutes for women, uh, that are usually things like. Guns and cars. Cars and computers or whatever. And so, uh, the things, and so this thing arrives and this thing is womanlike. It's bordello, like, if I can put it that way. Yeah. Fact, Ralphie kinda likes her too. Yeah, he's a little interested. Yeah. Ralphie, Ralphie. Pause a little bit and mom gets upset. See, Ralphie is starting to move into adolescence a little bit. Yeah. And so Gene would always have, with the two kids, the older one, Ralphie is just starting to move into adolescence, so the hormones are starting to work and he's becoming a mini version of his dad. Yeah. So he, he gets this, uh, this award arrives and he takes it out and, and he, he's moving his hips around. See, he's all excited. And he's gonna, he says, I'm gonna put this, I know just where it goes in the front window, because I'm gonna turn on the neighborhood. Oh, you know, turn on the neighborhood. What a line. So you see what's going on here. And at that point, Melinda Dillon playing mom, looking at what's going on here. This. Ugly Tory lamp that the old man is, as I say in the book, he's not just putting it in the front window, he's showing it to everybody. And on top of that, he's putting it among the plants, the real plants that mom has growing there, which are, as Jean said, that's the Garden of Eden. Mom is doing her thing, raising these, raising these plants and all harmony. And then the old man. Takes this most unnatural, if I can put it this way, sinful thing, this idol icon. And he plants it right there in the middle, in the front window. Yeah. She's just horrific. And mom knows at that point, in order to destroy that affair that the old man is having with that trophy wife, she's gonna have to break it. And she's gonna wait for the right time to break it. She's gotta break it well enough. That he can't put it back together. Well, and one of my favorite lines from the whole movie is you used all the glue on purpose. Just such a great line. How about you, Steve? What's your favorite part of the movie? It doesn't, it doesn't align, I don't think with any, anything, uh, with the book as far as how do you know? But, but it, it might, I don't. I think the, the mom is just the most, you know, beautiful character. She's just a, such a sweet, sweet mom when she is, uh, feeding the little boy, the little, the little one. Mm-hmm. And he's like acting like a little piggy you, little piggy. I just think. That's, that's, that's just an essence of, of being a parent and loving your little kid. It's the fun that, that, that they had together that was so sweet. I think it probably went into my mind as wanting to be a parent just to, to feel that with a kid. Sure. I love that scene. That's really, that speaks volumes about you and it Yeah. I'm not surprised you would say that. Go ahead, Dr. Q What, what is your commentary on the parable? Yeah, so I, yeah, that's in, that's in the chapter on the importance of play. Yeah. To be playful. Yeah. And the old man has trouble being playful at the dinner table. He's got the newspaper and he's smart, and he wants to know what's going on in the world. And, uh, if the Chicago, uh, so White Sox have lost again and he's all upset about this thing or that. And, and then along comes mom to convince, uh, Randy to eat. Yeah, Randy. And she's gonna do it in a very playful manner and the way she does it, getting him, you know, to eat like a, like a piggy, like a piggy, like a piggy. How did the piggies eat? So sweet. And um, uh, they shot that by the way, with uh, Randy's actual mom, just off to the side making funny faces to, to help him, uh, laugh even more. That makes sense.'cause the kid is just reacting so naturally. He is very natural. Yes. The mom's good. Yeah. His mom is making all kinds of, you know, and he's, he thinks it's funny. So, um, so that's a very important scene and you're right that the mom, again, is a hero there. Doing such a great thing. Yeah. And being such a wonderful mother, I, I love the scene too. Uh, but any, anything you could mention to me about the movie, I would relate to the book. Steven, how about if I didn't put it in the book? You got, what's your favorite scene in this movie? You've, you know this movie very well too. Um, oval Teen Decoder Ring. The Decoder Ring, yes. Mm-hmm. The media and at the end it goes, yeah. Drink More Oval Teen. Yeah. The end one of. One of Gene's life lessons, which he knew firsthand was never trust the media, don't trust the media. Uh, wow. Was he a critic of the media? Hmm. And the, the, uh, not just news, but entertainment and so on. And I remember him talking with me one time. I don't think I put this in the book, but he was talking to me one time about serving on some of the guilds in Hollywood, like the Writer's Guild and so on, and he would go to these meetings and there were these famous people. Who are on these guild boards with him, and he would tell me their names and so on. And then he would tell me that they are complete charlatans. He said, the way they act, you know, uh, and give interviews and what they say about life and so on. It's completely different. You know, they're, they're really a-hole, this and that, and, and it, it really. Soured him so much on Hollywood. He did not have a high view of Hollywood at all, or the media in general. He did like sports a lot, especially football, and followed the Chicago Bears, uh, pretty closely and. Well, I, uh, he, he got to witness a, a Super Bowl 1985, so that one must have been fun for him. Yeah. Chapter eight is, don't trust the media. I wonder what Gene Shepherd would feel about the media today. Oh my God. I mean, yeah, talk about the most untrustworthy group of charlatans. You know, it's all about salaciousness. I mean, it's just, it's insanity what sells. There's no more Walter Cronkites in the world. Yeah, the, the news is awful. The, uh, and so much of the entertainment is just gross. So much of the comedy. Occasionally I tune across a comedy channel. And you know what Gene said to me, and Seinfeld said to me too about comedy is, uh, most of this stuff is just rank. Uh, and why do people find it funny? Just to go back to Seinfeld for a minute. So the, when you look at the Seinfeld TV show, the sitcom, you see the same. Compassionate attitude toward the characters, even if they have problems. You know, they're not perfect people. They do some dumb or silly things. They're selfish. They're selfish, they're very selfish people. But you still like them. Yep. And they still in the end like each other. Yeah. And uh, uh, and he got that from Shepherd's, compassionate humor. Mm-hmm. And so talking with ge, with, um, with Seinfeld about Gene was quite interesting because, uh. He had said it once in an interview Seinfeld had that he learned his entire comedic sensibility from Gene Shepherd, but I didn't know what all he meant from that until I talked with Seinfeld about it. Yeah, even the Hello Newman, you know, as much as he had this, this disdain for Newman, he still had, I mean, there was still just such likable characters. Well, he still could walk into his place and that, you know, they, he'd insult each other, but he would always, he'd had him in his place and he. Up to hijinks with Kramer all the time in his apartment making sausage. Oh yeah. All that kind of stuff. Jeff, what's your favorite, uh, scene from the movie? Well, having grown up in a pretty strict Catholic family, uh, you know, swearing was fudge, sort of, uh, yeah, not, not very well frowned upon. And I, I even read a, a thing that in the forties when this, uh, movie kind of took place, it was absolutely the worst thing you could possibly say was the F word. And so the kid says, fudge. And I just, there there's a slow motion scene where the dad is, oh. Looking, the, the kid, uh, the dad actually knocks the bolts off of the, the hubcap when they're trying to change the, the, the tire. The tire, and, and. Um, Ralphie is holding it and he says Fudge because he had learned it from his dad. Right. But his dad said, what did you say? So you have a chapter called Hold Your Tongue. Any comments on that, Dr. Q? Yeah. Well, I consider that automobile scene, the, the saddest scene in the movie that, uh, the, the old man is not willing. To fess up right away that he's the one that, that knocked the, uh, the bolts and, uh, that to admit that he used that word all the time. I think I say in the book, it would've been great if the old man had said at that point, when, uh, Ralphie says the fudge word, uh, oh man. Hey, I say that all the time, a hundred times a day and you learn it from me, but I won't tell mom that you said it wrong. Course it goes in cattle side course, it goes and tells mom, but wait. Yeah. Why is that sad? Yeah. Why is it bad? Well, I think, no, it's, that's what comedy is. That's funny. Yeah, it's funny. But, but the fact that he was the one that just told shoulder it, it hurts Ralphie for sure. Yeah. Comedy and, and, uh, Ralphie wants to be loved by his dad. Of course, that the great scene of love. The, uh, with the giving of the rifle to him when he's the only main character that doesn't get asked for the rifle, that the grace and love at the end. Uh, you know, and you look at the way the old man looks when he's watching Ralphie unpack that and the love he has for him. So Gene didn't think that the automobile scene. Was so bad, uh, that, you know, the old man didn't really love him and was it was he was being nasty or anything, just that the old man couldn't control it. And he was embarrassed because he knew he used that word all the time. So, but he certainly does redeem himself. I mean, watching him. You know, like put the bbs into the gun and he's just, he's so like, just engaged with, with Ralphie's enjoyment of that moment. And he bought it without anybody knowing and kind of had it as the last gift that Ralphie got to open and said, Hey, there's one more gift over there. The topper, the gift topper. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That the shooting of that scene by Bob Clark. The way he got the performers with that say that un that, uh, unwrapping and looking at Ralphie and his face and what he's doing and then seeing the old man and mom together and what on his face. And then having mom look at the old man and, you know, and, and thinking how much he really does love their son. That scene is spectacular. It really is. Yeah. And it, it, it just wraps up the movie so nicely. Um, before I forget, where can people find your book? Because if this ain't the greatest stocking stuffer and kg, are you digging into a bag of chips there or what? Yeah, please. What's, what's going on back? You rolling the boat? I think it's Dog Nest. I'm not actually, no, I, um, I'm, I'm gonna be switching cars in two minutes and heading do a dinner function. Oh, yes. Yes. I wanna give, I'm trying to finish, uh, finish strong here. Sorry about the noise. That's okay. No problem. Sorting out things pretty strong. Yeah. Well, you know, it's okay. Little potato chips here and there, but the, um, uh, uh, well, where do we get the book? Oh, the book? Yeah. So, of course on Amazon if you want it. By the way, there's the audio version of the book Oh, oh, on Amazon. Oh, wait a second, which I recorded and I recorded it the way I thought Jean would've done it. Nice. Uh, Quentin, I just have to share something with you. This is the first book that wasn't assigned to me that I have read since probably college, and I wish I were kidding. I've written more books in the last 15 years. Than I have read. And it made me discover, you know, this reading books isn't so bad, but now knowing that there's an audio version of the book Yeah. You know, this could have saved and, and, and, and Dr. Quentin did it. So I wanna, yes, I'd love to listen to it. I love audio books, so I'm, I'm gonna, I'll be take, I'll be finding that. Yeah, I did it and, and I got into all kinds of trouble with the company that does their, uh, audio stuff with Amazon's audio stuff. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, knit wi um, yeah, we don't like them though. Uh, the, uh, the, you know, it was interesting thing about it is that I wanted to do all of the voices a little bit differently. And get the kind of intonation and so on that gene would use, but also to add a little bit. Well, and you also have a, a warmth to your voice that's similar in some ways to Gene Shepherd. I mean, your voice lends itself very well to being a storyteller. So well, thank you. Thank you. Any, any final words before we, uh, I'm download now. There is a, there is a webpage that you can, uh, order a signed copy personally signed. I already got a signed copy and shipped. You can get to the person and shipped for 18 bucks, I think it is. And uh, Jeff, I'm gonna ask you, I'll give you that to put it on the final, uh, version here at some point. Okay. Um, I can't remember the, uh. Uh, I should be able to bring this up. Hold on a second. We can post a second. Yeah. Yeah. We'll put it on the screen. Yeah. Put put it on the screen. It's um, it's, uh, yeah, here we go. Okay. The Square sales site where my book is, my wife's new novel is there too. Oh. And another one of my books. It's, uh, Quentin dash schultz. Quentin schultz.square.site. Perfect. Quentin Schultz square site and uh, I've got one box left. Oh, everything else is, in terms of being able to sign, is sold out. Nice. And um, this thing was a bestseller. On Amazon last year and it's starting to ramp up again. Uh, and I don't tis the season. Yeah. Yeah. It's the season. And I don't put this out a lot'cause I can't get the books and sign'em all and send'em out. I can't be in that business, you know? Sure. But cca, occasionally I do that for this podcast. It sounds perfect. Yep. I gotta tell you that, um, sometimes I, I write things and then I read'em a few years later, whatever. I'm embarrassed. Like I always see how I could have done it better. And in preparation for this podcast, I was going back through the book and reading some of it, and I thought, including those boxes I have in there where I have some trivia. I love all those. Yeah, the little that's related to what I'm talking about and All right. Little side stories. The little side stories and all. And I thought, wow. And then I had hired this artist to do the line drawings. Gene Shepherd did line drawings. He loved line drawings. So I hired an artist to do line drawings. For the book. And, uh, when I looked at the whole package and came together, I thought, wow, how can I tell more people about this book? How, how can I get the word out? Um, I love it. I love the doggone book that I wrote. It. It's a phenomenal book. And it is funny that you bring up those little, you know, sort of side stories. I just thought that it was, it was constructed so well. And even those little line drawings, you know, there's one in there of like the Turkey wing and you know, the line drawing of the la the, the leg lamp. I mean, I just, I, I can't recommend this book enough. It's you and you wrapped it all up in the, in the appendix about how to tell a good story, and that's really important. You two have lived and survived. That was sort of the mantra of Gene Shepherd. That was sort of wrapped up in all of his, uh, storytelling parables and insights, and you put it together in a seven step process for communicating and writing your own. So maybe we can wrap it up on that with you, sort of sharing a little bit of a concluding story. Yeah. Yeah. What an opportunity I have had to get to know somebody of that talent and in such an unusual way that he even responded in the first place. And, uh, I'm just, just so amazed by it. And I, I have a friend who's doing a documentary on Gene Shepherd. It's really gonna be great. Uh, he's been working on it for over 10 years, and he interviewed me as part of the documentary. But, uh, uh, by a year and a half or two years ago, he sent me a little video clip. Of the, um, the guy who was the director of many of jean's, uh, PBS movies for public television, wonderful director, and he had interviewed him and he sent me a clip where this inter, this director said that one of the great joys in Jean's life was to find out that there was this professor. Uh, that ha was doing this whole course on his work. Oh, no. Wow. And he talked about it and I thought, wow, uh, you know, this is long after Gene has died. Gene never said anything to me like that, that he was glad that we did that or anything. But apparently as he moved along in life, feeling like people did not understand the quality of his storytelling, it was funny and all that, but the ideas in it. He really saw it as literature that he was doing literature, you know, and, and I think he was in his own style. Oh, without question. And so, yeah, so to find that out from this, I don't know if that'll be in the documentary or not, but it just blew me away when he sent me that little thing. And I thought I brought some real joy and respect to Gene, which he needed. He had a rough childhood. He was married four times, and, uh, often not a likable guy. Uh, and, and I tried to just support him and encouraging him and tell him he was doing a good job and appreciate him. And it turned out, uh, along with the theme of being nice, you know, that. It made a difference in his life. Well, and I think the fact that, you know, that you took the time to interpret his work the way that you have, you know, when you think about the, the classic storytellers, whether it's, you know, uh, mark Twain and the, the people that have interpreted his work, Neil Ford is another example, but just the, uh, you know, you honor him by writing this book. And I, you know, I think you've done'em really proud. So I just want to thank you again for your time. Yeah. Uh, the book is truly fantastic. Uh, it's a gift to, uh, oh, he's already playing the music. I guess that means that we're ready to roll. But thank you, kg, thanks for, uh, for checking in. Hope you have a great dinner. And, uh, Dr. Quentin Schultz, we, uh, appreciate your time. Thank you, sir. And, uh, have a lovely holiday or Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas, Dr. Q. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. My pleasure. And with that, off we go.