Ep. 193 A Pint of Kindness with John Cosgrove (St. Patrick’s Day special)

The KCP Crew welcomes AUTHENTIC Irishman, John Cosgrove gives us a peek into the Irish community in Minnesota. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:13

That's right, we're gonna do a little introduction to Welcome to the Kindness Prodigals, where once again we hope to inject the world with the dose of the Minnesota Knights. Minnesota kindness that it desperately needs. Welcome back, gentlemen. We got Michael Damsey in the uh in the basement studio.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

Good to be here. He's wearing that fanciful hat. Feels very uh European.

SPEAKER_02 0:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Steve Brown. Hello, Steve. Hi. Got Jeff back there. Hey, everyone. KG's on assignment. And we've got an authentic, a for real Irishman with us with a fantastic head of hair. Look at the hair on that guy. Well, let's let's officially invite our friend in before he before we start throwing compliments in his direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the Kindness Chronicles, and I wanted to just compliment on what a lovely look he has.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

This is our St. Patrick's Day special. Yeah. Uh our week, St. Patrick's Day week. We're going to try to uh you know touch on Irish kindness and all things uh Irish and the celebration of some Irish dancing. So today, on the Kindness Chronicles, we're celebrating St. Patrick's Day a little differently. Not just green shirts and shamrocks and all that stuff, but the heart behind the heritage. Our guest is one of my dear new friends, Irish friend, Mr. John Cosgrove, a man who embodies Irish wit, warmth, and wisdom. Today we're exploring what Americans get wrong about Ireland, whether luck is real or overrated, and what kindness looks like from Dublin to Minnesota. Is Irish warm is Irish warmth real or romanticized? I don't know if we're gonna get into all this, but we're gonna keep trying. Um, is it luck or grit? Is this a long introduction? And what might America learn from Ireland about hospitality, humor, and humanity? John Cosgirl, welcome to the kindness chronic.

SPEAKER_05 2:06

Well, thank you. Is that what a is that what a pause sounds like? Yeah. Wow. I know it's canned, but I'll take it. If I could get a tip of that, that would be fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

Yeah, we have to pipe it in. Um, welcome, welcome to the show, John. You have talked to both me and Mr. Dempsey on your podcast, The Crafty.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

That's correct. Yeah, I keep checking my emails for an invitation, but whatever. I'm probably the only one that's ever written a check to you, but that's okay. We're fine. We have Do you remember you did a show for me, John? You did a little uh quiz thing a couple of years ago. Steve introduced me to it. Right.

SPEAKER_05 2:41

Now you are the only one that's written, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

You cheap SOB.

SPEAKER_05 2:45

Although Let's see bought me breakfast once, so thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

There you go. That's right. And you know, buying breakfast that's the cheapest meal you can buy for nobody.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

I think I bought you breakfast one time too, John. One time. Hopefully. One time.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Kindness tip right there. So John and I have uh seen music together, and uh we we share, he's got great interest in and uh uh taste in music. But John has all kinds of interesting things about him that I want I want to, John, can you introduce yourself and tell us what you're about, what you do, um, and and where you're from. We want to get really into the Irish aspect of who you are.

SPEAKER_05 3:21

Well, I'm one of those rare Irish people in Minnesota that came directly to Minnesota.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Right.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

I didn't come via New York or via Philadelphia or San Francisco, I came straight to Minnesota, which is rare. Yeah. A lot of the Irish diaspora that's here in Minnesota, a lot of them um came from somewhere else first in the United States or Canada, uh, unless they work with someone like Boston Scientific or Medtronic. But I came direct in the summer of '99, and I was initially coming for two weeks, and I ended up staying. Here I am 27 years later. And when I first arrived, of course, like most patties off the boat, it's okay, I can call them paddies. I went to the pub and met Kieran Folliard, who is essentially the Irish godfather here in Minnesota. Yeah. And I started working for him for the summer and ended up working for him for about six or seven years. And in the middle of that, he was a great mentor and said to me, you know, the the difference between here and Ireland is this is the land, it's called the land of opportunity. You are pretty white, so you've got a lot of stuff laid out for you already, and they kind of like the Irish accent, so use that to open doors. It won't always keep the door open, but it'll definitely open the door, sure. And think about what you want to do. So I paid attention while I was still working at his pub, and I put in long shifts there, and it was when he we were, I'll tell you how it started. He said, We're coming up to St. Patrick's Day, as we are right now, and as a pub owner, it's a very lucrative time of year. He said, and I quote, let's try and squeeze a few more dollars out of these Yanks this year.

SPEAKER_02 5:20

Well, that's not very kind. Hey, hey, John, can we in the best possible way?

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. And either we come up with 11 new saints and open 12 days of the year, or we have other ideas. What can we come up with? And so, of course, the Irish are known for storytelling and hospitality and what we call crack, which is the Gaelic word, which it basically means fun, but it is fun when my mother still says, Was there much crack in the pub last night? Or was that wedding much crack? But um, we decided to have a quiz night, which was unheard of back then, and he was looking for someone to host, and I stuck my hand up and I said, Well, I read a church once. He said, Perfect, if it's not going well, you can always say this is the word of the Lord, and you'll get the retention. So that set me on a journey of when after I did my first quiz night and I got those kind of responses. I'm like, okay, this is what I want to do. Yeah, and that has led me on this curious little path. Because the other thing he said to me is don't worry about your passions. That's that's for uh the Tony Robinsons of the world talking on information and late-night TV. Follow your curiosity and see where it takes you. You don't have to know all the answers, you don't have to have everything lined up, just be curious. And this is before being curious was like a hip, you know, thing for people to do. So over the last 20 odd years, I've followed the curiosity and I hosted quizzes. The quizzes got bigger. I needed technology to help facilitate those bigger quizzes. I worked with some interesting um mother-dwelling mini van driving, Dorito munching developers, and um developed some technology that then became a thing of its own. So I've always approached things with curiosity. I've had a podcast for nine years. I'm currently, it's on sabbatical because my other businesses are pretty busy, and all the while I'm having fun, I'm meeting interesting people. And just today, before this call, I was on the on a Zoom call with uh some people in Chicago because Chicago is a very strong Irish town where there would be a lot of Irish natives, and I had never really tried to crack, for want of a better word, that a Chicago market. But there's a whole world there that you know is full of possibilities. So I really enjoyed living in Minnesota for the last 27 years, and because I have brothers that have lived in other cities, simply because I've had to assimilate. There are not a lot of Irish people in Minnesota, so we're a bit of a novelty. So the onus is on us to assimilate with Minnesota rather than if I went to Chicago, I could find a huge diaspora group and I wouldn't have to assimilate. So I'm grateful that I've had to assimilate here and still have people saying things like Bigara and Top of the Morning and drinking green beer and all that other nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 8:34

Hey, I just super quick, I want to go back to the beginning, John. Why why you you made mention of coming right to Minnesota? Well what like tell us were you back home in Ireland? You looked at a map, you said I have to get out of town, and I will go. You threw a dart. Well, why Minnesota?

SPEAKER_05 8:55

My brother Seamus, as I like to say, he got the cool name, I got the personality. Um he was in uh staying with Ralph. Well, we have a bunch of relatives in the East Coast. He was staying there for the summer working, and he decided, because he's also a curious lad, he decided to explore a little bit of the United States, and he had a few minor connections with Minnesota, and he came to Minneapolis. When he came back to Ireland, he talked a lot about Minneapolis, how impressed he was with it, and I was itching to get away. The rain in Ireland is incessant. I will tell you that there is a famous meme where an American tourist says to a young lady, Does it ever stop raining in Ireland? And she said, How would I know? I'm only seven. So that tells you how much it rains, and he said, You should go check out Minneapolis. I think you'd fit in well there. And how prophetic of him to say such a thing. So uh that was my first sort of inkling about going to Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

You got some good advice right away about curiosity and about you know, that's so you mentioned the the godfather of uh of of Irish people in Minnesota, Kieran. Is that from Kieran's pub?

SPEAKER_05 10:20

Yes, uh Kieran's behind that. Then he opened the local, and then he started two ginger's whiskey after he was like we were the number one seller of Jameson whiskey in the world four years in a row. Jeez, is that right? That is right. If you go into the local downtown, you'll see four plates on the floor directly from Jameson, or as we call it Jamison. Acknowledging the fact that four years in a row, we were the number one seller of Jamison in the world in Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Before Steve, you start getting your questions. I have a couple of questions related to the uh the bar scene, the pub scene in uh in the Twin Cities. Obviously, Kieran's is probably right at the top of that list, but are there other Irish establishments that uh are worthy of calling themselves Irish establishments?

SPEAKER_05 11:12

Good question. Of course, the Dubliner in St. Paul is pretty iconic because the owner uh is from Kerry, so of course he'd call it the Dubliner. And they pride themselves on their music and the quality of their pints. The quality of the pints are always going to be a measure, and of course, we live in a time now when there's less alcohol consumption. The the Gen Zs of the world are drinking less alcohol because they're more uh uh health conscious, which is not a bad thing. However, of course, in Irish pubs, it's more than just drinking, it's community and a place to gather. And the Dubliner does a great job with that. Is it you know, St. Paul being a traditionally more blue-collar community working class fits well in with the Irish narrative and gatherings there reflect that. Um, my couple of my favorites, there's a place in northeast Minneapolis called the Anchor, and it's called the Anchor Fish and Chips, and they they've established themselves as a place to go for fish and chips, but they serve quality pints there too. And about five years ago, six years ago, a pastor in South Minneapolis um decided to open a pub. Now he didn't call it an Irish pub, he called it a public house. It's called the Prodigal because of his his background in uh the Lord's work. And I would say by accident, and I've said this to him, Jeff the owner, and he's become a very, very good friend of mine. I've said the main reason this pub works so well is that you and your wife Randy have no idea what you're doing. But you are willing to put it out there every day and say that, and because of that, people are drawn to it. There's nothing, there's nothing sort of characterizes this place as being uh staged or anything other than authentic. And ironically, you know, every Irish pub in every city in the US and beyond will say, We're an authentic Irish pub. If you have to say it, if you have to say it, then we have to question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The prodigal will never use the word authentic. They will just they you will know. I want to follow up with that, but you go first.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, I am not sure if the place I'm about to describe as would be considered an authentic, but they certainly have leaned into the Irish side of things with the name of the establishment. And I have a dear friend that owns this place, and my two boys both work there. So be careful how you respond to the case.

SPEAKER_04 13:49

Go buy it there, huh?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Uh Patrick McGovern's uh in St. Paul is uh is owned by friends of ours. And uh let's just say that on St. Patrick's Day specifically, there is chaos there. Like you cannot imagine. I think I once mentioned that my son Jack on the podcast I mentioned that you did. We were all he was bringing the garbage out at the end of the night, and there was a couple having fun with each other in the dumpster. In the dumpster. So if that ain't authentic Irish pub, I don't know. What is a quality pub?

SPEAKER_03 14:27

Well, that's that's what I want to ask about.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

So I asked already what's a quality pine.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

Well, hold on, let's let's just go through this. The he's we're talking about pub culture in Ireland. I want to kind of hear it from him with regards to hospitality and community and music. Tell us what the elements of a good Irish pub are coming from Ireland and comparing to Minnesota.

SPEAKER_05 14:48

I thought John just covered it. It's making out in the dumpster.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

That's the qualifying right there.

SPEAKER_05 14:56

You know, it takes me back to that old Irish song, ain't love rubbish. But anyway, um, I would say, I would say forget about the the stereotypes. Yeah. Because obviously in Ireland, they're not setting out to be an Irish pub, they're just setting out to be a public house, a place where the public gathers. And the elements that will differentiate one public house from another will be the quality of the pints, for sure. Because if your pub gets a bad name, well, what is what is what does a quality pint mean? Like how it's poured or just the how it's poured and how it tastes and the temperature, and and I mean, there's not many things that the Irish are known for worldwide, but beer is definitely one of them. So let's make sure that what we're producing and is is is representing our deep and rich culture. Because remember, we are an indigenous people. There's only three indigenous groups in all of Europe: Ireland, the Sami, and the Basque. So if we're gonna have something that's representing an indigenous people, let's make sure that it represents it well. And you know, we're obviously not known for our cuisine, but that's nothing to do, that's not it's not because we didn't have access. Well, we it's mainly because we didn't have access to it. And I know this is the canvas chronicles, and I'm not gonna get into the great failures of British colonialism, but we have we have historically taken very uh limited resources and made um great use of them. So that extends to the pub as well. We have a basic space, but it's the welcome, it's the people, it's the personalities that's gonna create the atmosphere and create that connection.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

Is there is there something, John, that is uh so I want to do the opposite. It's it's the community, it's the welcoming, it's the hospitality. If somebody walks into a pub and behaves in a certain way, is it you're automatically kicked out mentally or physically? Like that super offensive.

SPEAKER_05 17:06

I would say, I would say you would be shunned more than anything, and you never want to be shunned.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Right.

SPEAKER_05 17:12

Uh, or you never want to be ignored. The worst, the worst thing that could happen to you is to be ignored. You'd probably be ignored. And uh because you know, where you don't get a reputation for being welcoming and hospitable by kicking people out, you just kind of gently point them in a different direction. Which brings me to And if that doesn't work, then you directly point them in a different direction.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Um let's talk about humor. So humor is a um very uh central, for central to the Irish experience, self-deprecation, also like there's a way that um Irish humor can make fun of themselves, but also be very biting in a in a clever way. Like how how did you uh did you experience that growing up and and because you're a pretty funny guy?

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Thank you, Steve. Um I would I would like to think that the first 20 minutes of this show would clearly demonstrate humor without it having to be brought up directly.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

However, digress we say authentic and authentic humor. Yes, are you authentically funny?

SPEAKER_05 18:22

I'm like, well, if you're picking up on it, I would have to say less of it.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

I want to know how it goes in with your family, like how how we were raised.

SPEAKER_05 18:31

So I'm one of I'm one of uh five, uh there's five kids in my family, so we were a small family growing up, and I had uh three brothers, all younger, I'm the oldest. So I'm primed for uh all sorts of uh humor, shall we say, and it's a coping mechanism. Again, I would point towards when you're invaded, when you are your culture is being challenged, you have a number of options. You can react violently, you can react thoughtfully, or you can react with humor, or you can react with all three, because all are options on the table. When you react with humor, it's very confusing to your opponent. And there is nothing more satisfying than confusing your opponent because I love this. You're leaving them wondering, did he just insult me? I'm not sure. And so I to me, that is the greatest victory in any situation. So I know this is the kindness chronicles. If you can think of a way to submit your opponent through humor, you have definitely picked up some sort of Irish trait.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, to me, I think that is the lesson of this episode. I think so too. Is that you know, if you use that the inner Irish in you to disarm somebody and maybe even criticize them through a clever use of humor, mission accomplished, you've got some Irish in you. And I do want to take exception with your comment about not many Irish people in the Twin Cities. I mean, we might not be born in Ireland, but god damn it, I am half Irish man. This is the one.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

What I think is what I think is intriguing and still intriguing to me as someone who's lived here for 27 years and have many, I have three children, so I have many conversations with them about this. The the level of pride that people feel about their Irish heritage, no matter how far back it goes, is remarkable. And I think it's quite unique, quite unique to Irish culture because our PR people did a heck of a job when they first came over, I think so. Taking taking this this pasty white. There is a joke that the uh KKK in 1920 uh wanted to eliminate the Irish simply because they were too white. Okay, we're not doing KKK jokes. Uh proud of their heritage, because essentially the Irish didn't not want to leave Ireland, they were forced to leave Ireland. Well, if we're gonna be forced to leave, we have to make the most of it, and we have to retain our culture. Like I said, we're an indigenous people, so we feel this strong connection to our culture and a pride in our culture, and that's passed on from generation to the point where we're here today in 2026, and and yourselves proclaiming whether it be 1% or 23%, yeah, that you're Irish and you're proud of it.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Yeah, we are, man. Hey, John, you you come here from Ireland, you're here 27 years. What is it that Minnesotans, what is it that we St. Patrick's Days on the horizon? What are the one or two things that most Americans get wrong when it comes to recognizing the wonderment of the Irish culture?

SPEAKER_05 22:00

I don't think there is much. I think there is, and this is probably why I've brought it up, that that sense, that indigenous sense, that deep, rich culture. We have our own language. We've had it for thousands of thousands of years. And they still teach it in the schools. Our language and culture uh uh do not come in the form of green beer and uh corned beef. In fact, corned beef and cabbage is an Irish American dish from New York when the Irish uh immigrants couldn't afford the pot roast that they wanted, and so they went down to the Jewish delicatessen and and started ordering corned beef and cabbage, and that has become an Irish American staple, which you know is neither here nor there. Um so I would say, you know, scrap go beyond scratching the surface, and you'll find a rich history and a rich culture. I give an example. In the Irish language, Oskilga, there are 31 different words for rain, and and a bit like the German language, where it describes what the rain is doing. So there's words for the rain that that falls gently on the meadow, there's a rain that falls harshly on your head, there's rain from the east, there's mizzle, there's drizzle, etc. And yet there is one word for sun. So that says it all right there. That says it all, and and and I'll also point out that the the the when the Irish economy for the first time actually improved in the 1990s, the art and culture that was coming out of Ireland at that time was an abomination. And so I'm grateful that we're back in a world of mayhem and chaos and discernment because the art that'll come out of Ireland now again, once again, will be uh very gratifying. We we don't do well when we're doing well, we do better when we're struggling.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

John, speaking of art, I watched the commitments uh in preparation for uh this visit with you. Do you like that movie? And is there another absolutely adore that movie?

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Oh, do I, yeah. It's one of my favorites. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Is there any others that you recommend?

SPEAKER_05 24:12

Is getting well, there's a currently a series on Netflix called How to Get to Heaven from Belfast. It's a little quirky. It's a lot of advised subtitles, and there's actually a couple of members of uh uh in the cast that were in the commitments that uh there's a darker element to it, but the humor in it is succinct and wonderful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Is there uh tell me about the or tell us you could just tell me specifically about the the Ireland, Northern Ireland political situation?

SPEAKER_04 24:46

Because okay, so we have no 800 years left. We're gonna get into the project. We have very short time here.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

No, there's a reason there's a reason I bring this up because Rory McElroy, this goes to sports. Rory McElroy is a guy from Northern Ireland, correct?

SPEAKER_05 25:04

Yes, we we would describe it as the North of Ireland. We do not recognize the entity of Northern Ireland that is a British entity. Uh so we call it the North of Ireland. So if someone calls it Northern Ireland, you know that they're leaning a certain way. Words, names, the way you comb your hair, the how many times you blink when you speak, everything relates back to your identity.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Wow. So the reason I bring this up is it feels like the angst that once existed, even in our lifetime, isn't quite as strong as it used to be.

SPEAKER_05 25:39

Well, we've moved on from just shooting each other to maybe arguing more forcefully. And it is really the the demographic, it's a demographic uh change because when the entity of Northern Ireland was formed back in the 1920s, it was to protect, it was it was the ultimate gerrymandering. And uh now that we are very familiar with that term, gerrymandering was created in the north of Ireland, that's where that idea first came from, as a way of protecting one tribe from another. And so the idea back then was that the the Protestant pro-British majority would maintain that majority over an extended amount of time. The problem is Catholics love a good ride, i.e., sex, more than the Protestants because they're less uh fussy about it. So we're having eight, nine, ten kids, they're having one, two, and so we outbred them. And so basically it comes down to numbers, and now we've outnumbered them, and that reflects in the political shifts, and you know, we're slow learners. We learned we we could have done with uh a couple of videos of Minnesota in the past month to show that resistance doesn't need to come in the form of violence, sometimes it can just come in the form of uh just belief in who you are, and so we could have saved ourselves a lot of death and destruction. And whatever angst is there now, thankfully, is based more on political arguments and rather than on violence.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

And there's your connection to the kindness chronicles. Suck it, Steve.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

John Cosgrove. Uh, we couldn't have asked for a better guest. Thanks for joining us today for our our uh St. Pat St. Patty's Day week show.

SPEAKER_05 27:25

I've never seen a microphone I haven't liked the look of yet. So any opportunity I'm gonna take it. Thanks too. I would I would I would invite you all to listen to the Brian Oak podcast in the coming week. I'll probably give you guys a shout out on cool. It's all about the podcast ecosystem at the end of the day. That's right. That's right. We're all inviting each other.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Thank you, Mr. Cosgrove. Have a good week. Have a nice day.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah, thank you guys.