Episode 26. Neil Neddermeyer (Grand Master 2003-2004)

Reed Endersbe joins in a special visit with PGM Neil Neddermeyer. His career and Masonic heritage are equally fascinating.

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This is John Schweitz, again, Chief Operating Officer at Minnesota Masonic Charities. And I am here with two very special guests. Uh, we've got Reed Endersby, who is a member of Minneapolis 19. And, uh, the, uh, Director of Membership. We'll find out what that's all about. And in addition to that, we have a very, very special guest. We have Most Worshipful Brother, Neil Neddermeyer. Past Grand Master, 2003 2004. 33rd Degree, Minneapolis Scottish Rite. And also I learned a member of the Order of the Eastern Star, they're keeping you busy in the land of masonry. We, uh, we invited Neil to come and, uh, share some of his, uh, history, some of the things that he's accomplished masonically, as well as the fact that he has a very interesting, career that I'd like to, uh, to get into, and I think that, uh, those of you that listen to this podcast will find extremely fascinating. But first of all, welcome, Most Worshipful. Thank you. Reid, thank you for joining us here. Pleasure to be here. Thank you, John. the thing that I always think of when I think of Neil Neddermeyer, I think of several words. Gregarious. I said, Neil, uh, before the, the podcast, I said, we probably won't have trouble extracting words from you We, uh, are just grateful to have this opportunity. So, Neal, tell us, first and foremost, how, what was it that compelled you to become a Mason in the first place? Well, I think it was my father, uh, and my family who were all Masons. My grandfather joined Wayzata Lodge in 1909. My, uh, dad and my, and two uncles in 46. My other uncle in 52 and I joined in 67. So, uh, north of 55, 56 year Mason. That's right. And all in Wisetta Lodge. That's correct. Did you grow up out that way? Yes, I grew up in Orono. So, Orono High School? Yes. Okay, and where'd you go to college? Uh, Rochester State Junior College in Monona State. Upon graduating from college, tell us a little bit about, uh, what What you did professionally. I, um, actually at, at, at graduation I went down to, to become a social worker with Hennepin County. They weren't hiring at the time, and of course I was just out of school, so I was broke. So I took what job they had, which was a, with the sheriff's office. Because I had the, uh, college background, I was promoted, uh, rather quickly, uh, to detective and... I spent the next, uh, many years as a, um, uh, as a, uh, an investigator of child victim crimes. Oh boy. during that, uh, that time, I, uh, I found, uh, myself, uh, being a guy that I had been in the past, which was, I was standing up to bullies. Child sexual abuse, child physical abuse, even child neglect has to do with bullying. and taking advantage of those, who, can't, fend for themselves. I, um, had a couple of opportunities, uh, to, uh, teach, uh, child abuse investigation throughout, um, uh, the, uh, five state area, and I actually became one of the only, if not the only, uh, child, victim crime specialist in Minnesota. That being said, I had had some side issues, which, which I worked with, with the, uh, with the FBI. And the FBI knew that I had, uh, the only filing cabinet in the state that, um, listed, uh, sex offenders, uh, because I know, I knew that it was a, it was a, an ongoing thing, uh, in a person's personality. When Jacob Wedling was kidnapped in, uh, 89, the, uh, I got a call from the FBI, uh, and who also called my sheriff and I was lent for six months to Stearns County Sheriff's office. Uh, uh, as a, an investigator in the, the, uh, Jacob Wetterling kidnapping. They also, asked for my files. And so I gave them permission. And when I got to St. Cloud, it turns out my files were already there. They had sent... Truckers to move them. Oh, really? And, computers were just coming in to focus at the time. And I saw my files being wrecked by people putting my information on computers and just throwing the files on the floor. I was really taken back, but now that I know what a computer can do, I'm, uh, I'm pretty at ease with it. I was made the head of one of the two teams up there, uh, who, um, and we, uh, investigated not who committed the crime, in other words, we didn't do the knocking on doors. We investigated those that were, who potentially could commit the crime. it started out just in the We went through the Stearns County area, then went through the Fife County area, then the state, and eventually 19 states and three provinces. And we were making lists of those individuals that were convicted of child victim crimes. The hero of this whole thing, in my opinion, was Mrs. Wetterling. She would come in, sometimes with her sister, every morning and bring us cookies. And, um, one morning she asked me what, uh, I needed And, uh, I said the state of, uh, Oregon. Has a sex offender registration where they, uh, on computers, they know who has committed this particular type of crime. Next thing you know, Mrs. Wetterling was testifying in front of the legislation in Minnesota, and sex offender registration was passed in Minnesota, and eventually she went to the, um, uh, federal. Uh, people in Washington and got it passed nationwide. Yeah, she became quite a, a figure as it related to the, uh, missing and exploited children. She really did and in fact I, I talked to her just a, a week or two ago and she was coming back, uh, from what she does, uh, uh, right now which is, uh, works, um, as a volunteer with the, um, missing and exploited children. Center of, um, of the United States. Can I ask a couple questions about your role in the investigation? you mentioned that you were, you know, looking at people in Stearns County, for example. Yes. At one time we had as many as 23 suspects. No kidding. And, um, And was Danny Heinrich one of the suspects initially? No. He wasn't. But his father was. Really? Um, his father at the time that I was, uh, I was there had just been admitted, I think, as a sex offender to, uh, to, um, uh, the state of Minnesota. I had interviewed. Because they asked me to because I was familiar with, uh, with interviewing kids. I interviewed a, uh, a victim, a young boy that was, um, kidnapped and raped. it happened six months before the Witterling kidnapping. And I know that what happens is after this kind of rape, Uh, many of the sex offenders will, will go into a 30 day, uh, or, or one month worth of feeling guilty, another month of feeling nothing, and about the third month they start looking for another victim. And, uh, so in this particular case, I interviewed this boy, and, uh, and he had indicated the fellow that, that, um, Took him? Uh, yes, the fellow that, uh, that did take him. Uh, told him that he had been at the red carpet bar all night, uh, and, uh, he was drunk. Uh, he also said when he let him go, run for the woods, don't turn around or I'll shoot. Which is exactly what was told to the boys that were accompanying Jacob at the time of his, uh, of his, um, uh, kidnapping. So I felt it was probably the same guy. There's a red carpet bar in, um, St. Cloud. Yep. And, uh, and I, uh, we were taking a look at that very seriously. The problem was, there was a second red carpet bar that no one knew about, and it happened to be a small little bar in Painesville. No kidding. And, uh, which is a little city close. Sure. And, um, Because of the lack of computers at that time, uh, there, there was several, um, reports to Paynesville police about somebody that was trying to kidnap children. And it never got to the Wetterling kidnapping. Wow. And the chief of police out there, uh, didn't, didn't want to make his, uh, detective look bad so he never mentioned it to us. No kidding. So if anybody, uh, he's, he's gone now, he's passed, um, and, um, and I, uh, frankly, uh, won't urinate on his grave because I don't want to stand in line. So, um, I can tell you that. Uh, it turns out to be the same guy and, the Hendricks and his brother and his father all, all, um, uh, went, uh, or patronized that particular little bar in, in Painesville. So do you remember where you were when you found out that they had, uh, discovered finally who it was that? that had kidnapped him? I was long retired, and, um, I, uh, called Mrs. Wetterling, and, I gave her my, uh, condolences. I was pretty sad myself, of course. I bet. But, um, I remember how it affected me. I remember I was in St. Cloud for six months Working on this case and I came home and, uh, for a weekend and my little daughter, who was, uh, six or seven at the time, was missing. And I panicked. I had, I don't think I've ever felt that way in my life. And she was just next door playing with the kids. Oh my gosh. Uh, and, uh... But it is interesting because when the Jacob Wetterling abduction took place, I kind of feel like that was a point in time where everything in our world changed. It did, uh, it did, uh, nationally. Nationally, internationally. Yes, that's true. I think that they said at one point the, uh, the search for Jacob Wetterling was the largest, uh, organized search for a missing person. At the time in the history of the world, which is just crazy. I remember there were Minnesota twins that, that came up and participated those were the years that I was in college and. You know, I was frankly obsessed with the case because it was just so, just felt so close to home and I would imagine, Neil, you know, obviously your career is one that, uh, requires some, uh, R& R when you get away from, from the work. Do you ever, do you ever escape it? And I'm wondering if masonry played any role in your... Maintaining some level of equilibrium when it came to, you know, managing just how your, your life was. I can tell you that about, um, five, six years after I retired, I started to have dreams about the faces of the children that I had worked with. And that became overwhelming, and I ended up, uh, Uh, doing some harmful things to myself, like drinking too much. I can tell you that, masonry has helped me, uh, focus more on, um, the reality of life. Now, I, I can tell you that Freemasonry is not, It's not a secret organization as much as it is a private organization, and once a meeting starts and the door is closed, it's referred to as being a tiled meeting, and that's a time when you can get things off your chest and talk to other brothers of the fraternity and know that it's not going any further if it shouldn't. And it's a way of relieving. Uh, any, um, personal tensions or frustrations that you might have. I would imagine the reason that, uh, you were on loan for six months is that there just aren't that many people that are experts in, in that type of thing. Well, that was, that's correct. Back in, in, in those days. No one, uh, really, uh, specialized in that area. The fact that you said you had the only file cabinet with that kind of stuff in it, and just think of where things have come now. You know, the, the Center for Missing and Exploited Children has turned into this powerhouse network and, you know, the Amber Alerts and those type of things that, that never existed back in the day. And I do believe that Patty Wetterling, and, uh, John Walsh, played a significant role in the world responding to this, uh, this new phenomenon. I believe you're absolutely correct. Yeah, it's, it's just, it's crazy. So let's talk about masonry now. Um, we popped up and visited you yesterday and you mentioned that you had some thoughts on, uh, what we ought to be doing in the lodges and as our, uh, director of membership is here with us I'd, I'd love to hear what advice you might have for a person who's trying to, Yes. encourage people to, uh, to at the very least, explore what we do as Masons raise that awareness. Well, I, I think that there are a couple of, of things that, um, that, uh, uh, promote masonry. One is of course the public, um, charities. Uh, another one is the camaraderie. And the third is, um, is the ritual itself that focuses on, uh, taking obligations to, um, uh, to, uh, support each other and each other's families and to support the, the, the public in general. Yeah, I think it's easily broken down into brotherly love, relief, and truth. That's exactly what it's broken down as. So, just curiously, I always think that, uh, when, when people... are engaged in masonry. One of those three things is what really drew you or draws you to the work of masonry. You know, me as being a guy that works for Minnesota Masonic Charities. I've always been enamored, first and foremost, with the charitable works. Um, I know that, uh, you know, Reed, you're very active in masonry and lots of friendships. I mean, I think you probably check all three boxes pretty, uh, pretty significantly. Neil, what was it, or what is it that, uh, that you would say is at the apex of your interest in the fraternity? Brotherly love, relief, or truth? I think it's the brotherly love. Doesn't surprise me, Neil. Um, the relief has to do with the charities. The truth has to do with the ritual. It's the camaraderie that, um, uh, uh, really supports me and keeps me going in the fraternity. So when you think about your Masonic mentors, who would you put on your personal, uh, Mount Rushmore of Masonic mentors? Well, Terry Tilton, uh, past Grandmaster of Minnesota. And he was just a year ahead of you, right? That's right. Okay. I would also, uh, uh, talk about other past grandmasters, uh, Chuck Lumen, for instance. But, um, there are some national leaders that, that remember the, these guys are pretty humble. Uh, no one stands up and says, look at me. Um, if I had to, uh, name. My hero, it would be a man by the name of Desigulier, who in 1704 was a member of the London Society, which was a scientific society, and Desigulier was in partnership or worked along with um, uh, the scientists of the day. Um, Charles, Charles Darwin was a member there later. Uh, but, um, sir Isaac Newton, okay. Uh, was uh, was one of the original members and because it was a royal society, there was aro, a member of the royal family that was always a member of that society as a er, went to, um, uh, went to um, Scotland. Edinburgh and, um, was admitted to the Masonic Lodge up there. Now the Masonic Lodge at that time was different in Edinburgh than it was the rest, than, than, than it is now. Uh, they simply, um, handled, uh, the building of many of the, uh, huge. Uh, uh, orifices in, uh, in Western Europe. And although they were not involved in the building and the pyramids, uh, that was kinda made up, they were not, uh, involved in, uh, some of the things that they get, uh, they, they're giving credit for today. Uh, they, they even indicated that, uh, that they made up the fact that, uh, or the, the, the non fact that, uh, Noah was a, was a, uh, the first builder, and they, uh, and they looked upon him. Well, Desigulier just simply, uh, took back some of the traditions, and they started a new club, uh, fashioned after, uh, the old, um, Masonic organization. And that new club ended up as what it is today. Getting new lodges throughout England, throughout Europe, and consequently throughout the rest of the world. It should be noted that, um, that, uh, when... The, the United States broke away from England during the Revolutionary War that the Battle of Bull Run had two grandmasters, one from each side. Really? Uh, and, uh, they, uh, respected each other. It should be noted that during the Civil War... Oh, sure. There was, um, there were, members of the fraternity that would die in the hands of the other, uh, uh, of the foe. And, um, uh, there were instances where, uh, they would open a lodge meeting and the North and South, uh, uh, soldiers would get together at the lodge meeting, uh, to, um, uh, to, um, uh, honor, uh, uh, uh, the passing of one of their members. I, um, I can tell you that in, um, uh, 18, uh, I believe it was 21 or maybe 26, uh, there, um, there was a, an anti Masonic group that started and it was because in Northern, uh, New York, uh, the state of New York, there was a guy that ended up missing that was going to publish all of the, what would be secrets of Freemasonry. Is that Morgan? The Morgan Affair. The Morgan Affair. That was named Morgan. And, uh, in the following presidential election, there was a Freemason that, there was a, excuse me, an anti Freemason running. And he, and he publicly, that was part of his, uh, That was his campaign? That was his campaign. That was his campaign. How'd he do? Well, he lost badly. Well, good. Uh, and later they found out that his pick for vice president was a Freemason. Oh no. Uh, so not great at research. No, no, not great at research. Yeah, those little details. Um, then, later, uh, the organization, of, Grandmasters of North America was formed. and each, Grandmaster had a vote, because there's nobody higher than a Grandmaster in Freemasonry. Uh, but there, there are different jurisdictions each had a, a Freemason, uh, a Freemason that was a Grandmaster. And the jurisdictions were provinces and, and states, Washington, D. C., uh, also. That being said, uh, they recognized each other by, um, just on paper as being, uh, legitimate Freemasonry. France had three Grand Lodges, and one of the Grand Lodges was a very wealthy, it was the, it happened to be the Grand Lodge where all of the, um, Champagne and and wine distillers were members, There was a second one that recog that we recognized in Minnesota and there was a rule alura about about us recognizing two grand lodges in France. And a problem started. And, uh, some of the, some of the lodges on the east coast of the United States dropped recognition of Minnesota. Several lodges in Europe did. And, uh, and that was turned over from Terry Tilton to me. And I had to handle that particular issue. Fun for you. Fun for me. I ended up, uh, flying, uh, three times to, uh, Uh, Europe, and one of those times I was with the, um, uh, a, um, a meeting of all the Grandmasters of Europe in Munich, and, what should happen is, I got to be friends with the Grandmaster of Russia. And I remember drinking Russian vodka with the Grand Master of Russia and it was his vodka. I, I, I can tell you that was a, a thrill in itself. I bet. Uh, but, uh, we put together a letter, uh, composed by the Grand Secretary of Minnesota, dropping our, um, recognition the Second Grand Lodge of France. And, uh, everything went back to normal. But during that time... Uh, that I was in Munich. I was also, went to Berlin and had a meeting of Grand Masters there. Uh, and in Berlin I met the actual Grand Master of England, who, is in, a Grand Master in, name only because he's royal. Uh, he was the Duke of Kent. Uh, and he and I, uh, had lunch together, uh, and, uh, and discussed the issue with France. So, uh, I was really kind of rubbing elbows with the big shots. Well, initially when I said fun for you, I was being sarcastic. Now I hear what you've got to do and I'm thinking fun for you is actually fun for you. Well, it, it really was, but, um, Fascinating. Uh, thanks to, uh, uh, Doug Campbell of the, uh, the, uh, Grand Secretary of Minnesota at the time. Uh, he put together that letter and, and, uh, and we were off the hook. Gotcha. So, you had mentioned, when we were, uh, with you yesterday, you had some thoughts as to, uh, incorporating, uh, conversation about values. Well, I, I get, I can tell you, I, the, the motto of Freemasonry is to make good men better. Remembering that doesn't fit necessarily into Uh, any of those three categories of, of, uh, of charity and ritual and, and um, brotherly love. Brotherly love. I came up with an issue that has been, um, actually proven with several psychologists and sociologists. Uh, and the idea is this. Uh, each, uh, Freemasonry, Freemasonry, excuse me, uh, should make a list of, uh, his values and beliefs and that those, um, that list should be either written down or communicated to someone because it brings it from an idea that just swims around in your head. Uh, and when you communicate it, it, um, it becomes, solidified in your, cerebral cortex. Well, what are yours? And, uh, oh, I, I have a list. Well, that's fantastic. And I can tell you that for those people that are listening, please don't go by my list. You should make your own. Absolutely. But I've been thinking about our conversation yesterday, and I, I think it's a great idea to, to. Well, Let me talk to you about principles, values, and, and beliefs that I have. And I have a list of about ten. Uh, please don't copy this list because you should make your own. But my list starts with empathy. Dependability, Faithfulness, Forgiveness, Humility, Generosity, Justice, Reason, Duty, Love, Moderation, and Truth. Now, I can add to it, and I have, and subtract from it, and I have. Uh, but, uh, everyone should make their own list. Everyone should either write it down or tell somebody, uh, what their list is. Uh, once again, it, it, it brings it to the forefront of your mind. That being said, if it, if you, if you have a, this list in, in the forefront of your mind, it's easier to make major decisions in your life. Because you know who you are. And you know what you stand for. And you can simply back that up. Uh, that, that, that being said, you can also live by, and you should live by, the list of your values, uh, and your beliefs. Well, and I think the idea of, of, of memorializing it to paper, in many respects, is similar to the, uh, you know, to the Constitution with the amendments and the Bill of Rights. It's, you know, you, these are the things that are going to rule my personal The way that I conduct myself as a person and over the course of time there are amendments to those But ultimately I think that that initial list It's probably a list that it's really a part of you and I think it's important to review that from time to time to make sure that you are conducting yourself according to your list, just like our Constitution. Well, and this, and this is a way to put the principles of what we stand for. into action. It's not just platitudes. It's, it's not just, we're not just reading out of the book. We're not just delivering a lecture and having it be words, platitudes, just part of what we do, but actually in one's heart to write this down, articulate it, identify it, and go back and reflect upon it. And maybe one would add to this, or maybe one, you could look at that and say, I've actually made some really good progress with. So I think that list. Thank you, Reed. And I also think that it can be little things. It doesn't have to be the major decisions in life. You can like I mentioned the other day. You can walk out of your, uh, out of your home and pull a weed and the simple act of improving something in the world helps you. Uh, and, uh, and you can pick some flowers and give them to somebody that doesn't have a garden and. Yes, they appreciate it, but it helps you because you know that you did something correctly. Uh, you can go on and say, um, that the things that you do in life, if you follow your beliefs and your values, can come all the way from, um, uh, feeding a cat, petting a dog, rocking a baby, or tipping your barber. Uh, the, uh, the things in life can be... Not to tell your wife that you love her, but to tell her why you love her by calling someone on the phone that, whose aspects in his life or her life is, uh, doesn't fit with your own and you really don't like that person, but you tell that person why, uh, you like certain aspects of them. By meeting, uh, an old friend or a relative, I did this, I met with my daughter, uh, and had, um, had lunch, and told her of, uh, that I was thinking of her and was reminded of a thing that we were, uh, doing together and how much I admired her, uh, for the decisions that she made, uh, and that I was thinking about that. Now, yes it did good things for her, but it really did good things for me. And, uh, in order to make good men better, uh, you should, uh, or they should, uh, concentrate on doing good things for others, uh, because that really reflects on, uh, your self esteem, uh, your, confidence, and most especially your validation, the validation of yourself. I think this is an exercise that, whether you're a Mason or not is something that I think would be extremely valuable to, uh, to take the time to do that and to put it on paper. I'm going to use another analogy, um, Weight Watchers. You know, the people that have the most success. Through an program like Weight Watchers is they document every single thing that they eat and I think that the idea of, you know, journaling and keeping track of those things that you do throughout the course of the day. and reflecting on your personal constitution, your personal values, and were you successful in achieving, the pulling a weed or planting or, or clipping a flower and delivering it to somebody who doesn't plant, doesn't grow flowers. I mean, I think that that's, you know, when I look at your list here, you know, the, the, the empathy and the, the thoughtfulness that's behind that. Our podcast, the Kindness Chronicles, we talk about the importance of, of, of oxytocin in the way that our, our lives are. And, you know, when you witness somebody doing something nice or, or, uh, experience, uh, somebody doing nice, something nice for you, that jolt, that hormone of oxytocin just plays such a critical role in your overall wellbeing. Um, so Neil, I think that's a fantastic idea. And something that we should all, uh, consider. I like your analogy, or your comparison of Weight Watchers. It's about persistence. It's not a process, and this is the same where we flip a switch and just automatically are exceeding or excelling in all of these things. But instead, it's the Brother Benjamin Franklin's quote, Persistence conquers all things. Are we working on ourselves every day, striving, knowing we'll never be perfect, of course, but how can we take that concerted, focused effort every day, little by little, and that adds up. I, I'd also like to say it's um, brother Benjamin Franklin, Freemason. Yeah, absolutely. I, I would also like to say that, that the uh, sharing. Your beliefs, uh, in, uh, I bring in, uh, Freemasonry only because, uh, when the, the room is tiled, you can say anything. Uh, and, uh, and it won't, uh, if you say something wrong, it won't go any further. I, um, I, I think it does fit with masonry. It also fits with the rest of the world. Well, and don't you feel like right now we live in a world that is so divided and so, and I often think about the fact that in masonry, the fact that we're not allowed to discuss the P word. Politics, um, I think is one of the, the, the most enticing, I've used that word twice now, but it's, it's something that I think makes masonry more germane now than probably in its history because we live in a world that's probably more divided since the Civil War. Agreed. Agreed. Well, and, and with, when I joined the Lodge, there was no Facebook, there was no internet. Aging myself now, but it was a refreshing aspect not knowing well, there weren't telephones when Neil became a mason This is oh, that's cold Well, I was a little further at least there was a landline when I was but it was in all kidding aside It was a very refreshing aspect not knowing what other members passionate political beliefs Or divisive topics were, I did not know. Maybe you can infer that over time with someone, but it just was never on the table. And to your point, John, the world in which we live perhaps never more divided and just lying in the sand on everything today, absolutely everything. And yet the man of today in this fractured society. What can we do to showcase the brotherly love, the meaningful friendships, the relief? Community engagement, charity, and truth speaks for itself. There are men coming to our door who are tired of being in that digitally isolated world that we live in, seeking what I like to call a uniquely analog experience. Friend to friend, brother to brother, being there for one another in life, and especially now more than ever in this incredibly divided world. Polarized in which we live. Masonry has stood the test of time, and there's so much positive to be had for someone out there looking for that. We're, we're still here, we're still doing that better than ever. Absolutely. I'd like to point out that, um, uh, uh, masonry looks at people as people rather than put them into a, a, a category of gay or, or, uh, black or Jewish. Uh, it, um, it, it, it, in fact, we meet on the level, we meet on the level, and I, Becky Schweitz. Oh, no. Oh, Becky, hold on. That was a compelling, hold on. I got a hunch that's going to be, um, edited. Hey, Becky. Hello. We're, uh, we're in the middle of a podcast. Say hello to, uh, Neil and to Reed. Hello. Oh, hello. I'll call you back. Okay. We'll be editing this out. Goodbye. Put the coffee on. So let's, let's, uh, restart. What will, to say that Freemasonry, um, doesn't focus at all, and in fact we don't talk about race, religion, or politics. Uh, people are people. Yeah, we focus on our similarities and, and, you know, that's one of the things that I love about the organization, you know, we focus on our similarities. We, we aren't interested in those things that divide us. Um, yeah, I, and you know, the fact that we, you know, all conduct the same ritual and, you know, we're hearing the same things. I just think that it's, uh, it's much more about togetherness than divisiveness. Absolutely. Although occasionally you might find a... A Mason on Facebook that says something that, uh, might not exactly fly in lodge. And that continues to be a challenge that we, we promote all of the things that we've talked about today. But are we able to harness our passions and not press send not press post on a hot button topic? Could we maybe channel that in call a brother call the friend text someone don't put it out there for everyone to consume Right in forever and yeah, and in really be you've heard me say before are we who we say we are are we able to? Acknowledge our differences respect each other along the way And avoid gaslighting one another on social media continues to be a real challenge. Well, social media is the source of many of society's problems. But I do believe as powerful as social media is, it can also be a part of the solution. Yes. If it's used properly. You know, we often talk about using social media as a productive tool as opposed to a destructive weapon. And, uh, unfortunately people have been using social media more as a weapon than as a tool for good. So, and you know, when we talk about masonry, we often talk about tools and, you know, uh, modern masonry, one of those tools would be social media. Before we wrap this up, Neil, I just want you, this is not a fair question, but I'm going to ask it anyways. In your 55, 56 years of masonry, is there one moment that you look back on with the greatest amount of fondness? Like, what, what was that defining moment that, uh, you realized that becoming a Mason was exactly what you ought to, uh, ought to do? Tough question. Oh boy, that is a tough question. I, I remember when I was working, and because I handled children, that there was a woman that was murdered in Crystal, Minnesota. And, um, it was a, a burglary, unknown suspect, uh, and her little son, who was nine, um, was sleeping, uh, had the night spent, spent with friends. Okay. So I went to the friend's house, uh, on direction from my boss, and to notify the child. And I, of course, I went to the friend's parents. And, uh, and use their house and I laid down with the child, um, face to face so that we were at the same level on the level and just simply told him, uh, that, uh, I didn't want to tell him this, but you're not going to be able to see your mother again. I didn't say she was dead. It didn't say she was murdered. And I said, uh, I will protect you. Where do you feel safest in the world? And it was Gram and Grandpa. Uh, I had an assistant at the time that found Gram and Grandpa's telephone number and the dispatch found an address. And I drove out with the child where he felt safest. And they came back with the name just before I got to the address and found, I found that The name of the people I was going to with the boy, the grandparents of the boy, he, they were very active in masonry and no kidding. In fact, the grandfather was the past master of, was that alive? Oh my. So I left the boy in the car with the assistant and went in and notified the, the, the grandparents. And we made a deal about how. We should act when we brought the child in. And I brought the child in, and, um, during the conversation, the word, um, um, dead came up, and the word murder came up, and the child would continue to cry when those things were mentioned. And I promised the child that I would protect him the rest of my life. Not the rest of his, but the rest of mine. And the following. Christmas I bought him, I brought him the biggest, uh, firetruck Tonka toy made. And, um, uh, in truth, that showed me, uh, the fact that here's a past worthy matron and a past, uh, worshipful master of the Masonic fraternity and myself working to save the life, uh, or the future of this particular child. Well, and the fact that that was the safest place. You know, there, there might be a masonic reason behind why he felt so safe there, that these people, you know, conducted themselves with many of the same values that are important to the rest of us. That's what I felt too. Wow. And then I went home. And I got a call on the radio from the boss who said they needed detectives. I said, no, I'm going home. I've had enough. Yeah. And I did. Well, that is fantastic. Well, most worshipful at this has been a real pleasure. Um, we've been, uh, talking about doing this for a while and I'm so happy that we were able to do it. I, uh, you look great. I'm, uh, happy to say, how are they treating you here? Oh, the staff here is wonderful. The food is good. And, uh, and the experience is positive. Wonderful. Wonderful. I, uh, just to finish, please, uh, for those that are listening, uh, take the, uh, the focus of your, of your mind. Uh, from the back of your mind to the, to the front of your mind, make a list, tell us, tell a person and act upon your values and your beliefs while the grandmaster speaks last. So on that note, off we go.