Episode 53. Tony Krall (Grand Master 2023-2024)

Past Grand Master Tony Krall joins us in studio. We deep-dive on a bevy of topics, from collaboration & charity to authentic friendship, brotherhood, and of course, the quality Masonic experience of the 21st century. “I detest titles, just call me Tony…” on an all-new Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries.  

Transcript

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Hi everyone. Welcome back. It's another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries. My name is Reed Endersby. I am the regional director for the Grand Lodge of Minnesota, as well as Minnesota Masonic Charities. My guest today has been an active Freemason for many years, having been active in Demolay in Wisconsin before relocating to Minnesota, and has Where he joined Minnehaha Lodge number 165 in 1986. He has served in innumerable roles in the Masonic family. He's a past potentate of Zurich Shrine. Past Grand Master of Masons in Minnesota in 2022. And currently serves as the SGIG for the Scottish Rite, the Orient of Minnesota. He's enjoyed a busy career as a litigator, and quite honestly, keeps a schedule, which makes anyone who thinks they're busy realize there's always room to do more. He and his wife Bev have been married for 41 years. My gosh, two sons, grandkids. Welcome Tony Kral. And where does the time go? It's hard for me to believe that your sons are You've got a couple of grandkids now, uh, 40 or pushing 40 couple grandkids. Now it's it's just the old cliche of as we get older, the time goes more quickly. how does it feel to be a grandfather these days? Being a grandfather is the best job I've ever had. Really? I can watch my sons in a role as a father that I could never do other than having grandkids. I see them try and mimic me and escape from my bad habits. Yeah. You know, I've always wondered that, and I don't have children of my own. I've had active with nieces and nephews over the years, but how different it is to see your own children as parents now. And is that a, is that an opportunity to share more perspective, things you wish you would have known back then? Do you kind of let them learn as they go or what's, what's that like? Well, my sons are a lot like I am, they don't take instruction well, so I mostly let them make their mistakes. When asked, I offer advice, and try and stay out of it. Watch from afar, I guess. Wait until you're asked. Hey, dad, by the way, what should I have done in this situation? So let's back up a little bit, though. You grew up in Wisconsin and went to school there, correct? Yeah, I was born in Minneapolis, but, uh, my dad worked for Kmart. And every 18 months, we were transferred until I found myself or the family found itself in Chicago in 1968, and the riots were going on, and he opted to get out of the management training program and become a permanent manager in La Crosse, Wisconsin. And so from the fourth grade on, I went to school in Wisconsin, college in Wisconsin, moved back to Minnesota for law school. So all those years in Wisconsin. I have to imagine it's a Packer family, uh, the Badgers, are you, are you pretty loyal on that side? Well, I'm a Packer fan because as the oldest son, I had to do something different than my father, who was a Viking fan. Incidentally, both my sons are Viking fans growing up in Minnesota, but my grandsons to rebel against their father are Packer fans. I see what you did with that. So you relocated to Minnesota and you went to law school here? Yes, at Hamlin. How's that been in terms of long time litigator? Has that always been your area of specialty? Or tell us a bit more about your career path. I needed a job as a law student. I was running an apartment building as a manager. And they decided that they needed somebody more professional than a guy who can barely screw in a light bulb. So I, uh, applied for a law clerk position in my first year of law school, which is not really encouraged. And I got a job, uh, with a law firm, uh, that included John Hanson, who was a past master of cataract. As a law clerk, I walked in and saw John studying a cipher book, and I knew immediately that That he was becoming a mason because I had taken my inner apprentice in 1977 in Wisconsin. So I kind of stumbled into this law firm that did insurance defense work, and that's just what I've done. Interesting. And so you, and we all, a lot of us know John Hanson. And so he was going, is he a candidate at the time when you started at that young age? He had taken his entered apprentice. I think he was studying his cipher so he could prove up. Wow. Okay. And then let's, let's talk about that for a second. So you had been in DMLA pretty active in Wisconsin. Were you a state master counselor? Did you go through the whole process? I wasn't a State Master Counselor. I had been elected State Junior Counselor living in Onalaska, Wisconsin by lacrosse. All of DMOA was over in the Milwaukee area. And I realized after a year that I couldn't fulfill my obligations. It was expensive, I wasn't able to do the driving that I would need to do, and I just thought it would be better for a deeming wife. I just stepped out. I remained active as a member, but not as a leader. So starting at the law firm and you're a student, you knew exactly what John's cipher, he's studying his, uh, proficiency, shall we say, for non Masons who listen to this podcast. Was that an instant connection? Was that something that you, was that a conversation starter that maybe, obviously you weren't anticipating at the time? Yeah, I think it was. I had, previous to that, found Minnesota DMA in the phone book and called and volunteered. And so I was doing a little volunteer work with them. And I saw him studying a cipher and it kind of created a bond or the start of a bond between us. And from then we just practiced together. I eventually joined, uh, the Lodge, uh, I had already been a DMLA advisor pretty active. And the executive officer of DMLA at that time said I'd be a better advisor if I joined and became a Mason. So I did. Excellent. And that's where you landed at Minnehaha then? Yeah. That's what I was chapter dad for the DMLA chapter that met there. wow. That's how fast the time has gone since then. And along the way, got married, met Bev. How did you meet Bev? Well, we met, we were back in lacrosse. I started off my college career at Eau Claire and then transferred back to lacrosse because I ran outta money and I was offered a job managing McDonald's. And so I met her while I was there and we moved to, uh, St. Paul together. So for me to go to law school and she was going to the University of Minnesota we got married a couple years later. That's awesome. I did not know that that was a part of your career path. as a young person and paying bills and school and tuition, What's your favorite memory thinking back to college What's a random memory that you have of that, that has just stuck with you the whole time? Paying off my student loans. All right. That one makes sense. Uh, anything more on the. Is there any sentiment or a certain song playing or just something locked in your memory of those days of the early eighties? Well, we had a group at the University of Wisconsin La Crosse that, uh, fancied ourselves political economists. And so we were pretentious enough to form something called the Political Economy Union, where you meet once a week and talk about politics and economics and then go drink beer. Being in Wisconsin, that seems the natural thing to do, but You read my mind, yeah. But it was a fun time to talk about ideas and philosophies. That's cool. You're still in touch with some of those guys now? No, unfortunately, uh, one of them went to law school with me, uh, but he moved away, and the rest of them, we've just grown apart. I always had my group of Masonic or DMA friends, and those are always the people that I was tightest with. So the political economy union and all that phase of my life was more about intellectual stimulation. But I had this core of friends that I kept with, and maybe that prevented me from expanding my, my friends. Were you in a fraternity? No. No? Okay. We had the motto, we'd rather, have friends and buy beer than buy beer, or join a fraternity. Alright. Anyway. Hadn't heard that one in a while, too, having been a short, well, I was in a fraternity, but then realized I needed to either focus on school and studying if I wanted to finish, or I had to pick one or the other. Not a good multitasker on that. So is what you've been in, as you alluded to earlier, you've been in essentially a similar trajectory in the legal field the whole, this whole time. Yeah, I, the, the firm I joined did insurance defense work and I enjoyed it. I wanted to be a litigator. I can't stand just sitting in an office and this afforded me an opportunity to do it and get paid for it. Uh, I had, uh, competed, in speech and debate in college and in high school and enjoyed it and this seemed like a natural extension. I thought of you and a handful of other friends and brothers who are in the legal field when I had jury duty not that long ago I don't know how I either forgot or just didn't appreciate from the outside until I was in it. The courtroom is a pretty peppery place sometimes. It can be. how do you psych yourself up for that as a litigator? That's got to be a lot of, uh, a lot of static. There is, there's, there's a, I get a tunnel vision before I go to trial. So you put everything else aside and you focus. And when I have the opportunity to focus on just one task. I always claim not to be the most talented person, but I can outwork anybody. And so, um, when I go into court, I know the facts, I know the witnesses, I've prepared it. And so, it's, you're really oblivious to all the static at that point. I tried a case in March, it was a fraud case, stemming out of the, uh, George Floyd riots. Oh. And the claim was somebody had committed fraud in submitting their insurance claim. Now, not a particularly sexy case, but to try that in Hennepin County, Very fact dependent, very witness and personality dependent, it was quite an interesting experience. How long did that go on? That was a four day trial, I believe. Oh, okay. What's the longest trial you've ever been through, generally speaking? Five weeks. Is that average, or what's the Uh, a week long trial is a normal trial for most meat and potato type litigators like me. Okay. The two year trials, the one year trials, the big mass trials. You know, tort trials or toxic tort stuff, that's not the norm. That's big firm stuff. And not, not most litigators, most lawyers will never try a case longer than a week or two weeks. Interesting. I I thought maybe everyone was fair game for possibly being in that year long grind of something that's super involved, but not necessarily, no, it's not what most disputes are about. I mean, the accident Exxon Valdez crash. Mm-Hmm. was a long situation, those type of cases, but. Even though it's, you know, a month long trial, it's huge. So as you look back on so many years of all the different perspectives you've seen in the courtroom along the way, what would you say, stands out in a case or a defendant or someone you crossed paths with that really left an impact on you? Oh, I don't know. I, I tried a case once down in Waseca and I was impeaching the witness with his prior sworn testimony and, you, you can tell when you have control over a witness and, I did in this and so I would ask him a question and if he gave a different answer than he had done before, I would open up his deposition and impeach him with it. It got to the point where I would ask him a question that hadn't been asked in his deposition and he would say, well, if it's in there, you must be right. And afterwards, the judge who went on to the court of appeals, told me that that was the best cross examination she ever had seen. And that's certainly the best one I'd ever done. I just, you can just tell when you have a witness and sometimes the opposite's true. So let's shift a little to your Masonic involvement and I talked about it earlier in your intro that you keep a very busy schedule In terms of the the balance of all of that. How do you do that? Well, I do it with a supporting wife and family. Yes, my kids were involved with Team away Both are past state master counselors and I'm very proud of them, but they always understood what it was to be busy. And we always kind of had a family philosophy of if you're going to be involved in something, be involved, make it better. you know, I've been lucky or fortunate enough to have people put me in positions and I try and work hard at them. You know, we're all the great equalizers. We have all of seven days a week and 24 hours in a day is just what you do with them. Don't spend a lot of time watching television. Don't go to sporting events in the years, many times as I would like to, because I prioritized other things. that's why I try and tell people that you can do what you just got to schedule it and make it happen. I don't know who to credit the quote to, but it's the, it's not a case of ever not having the time. It's just not devoting the time to whatever needs to be done. Exactly. With all of the different parts of the Masonic family in which you are involved. I don't want to ask you what's your favorite, cause it may be very difficult to decide or to land on one, but what's been some of the most enjoyable parts of this, you've been very active with the Shrine, with Shriners International, with the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite, with Grand Lodge and the Freemasons, Minnesota Freemasons, where does all of that land as you have had so much exposure and involvement and have been part of so many exciting things that I'd be fascinated to know where that lands for you. I found what I was looking for when I joined DMLA and that's guided my life all the way through it. Other than my father, the most influential men in my life were the DMLA advisors I grew up with. And I tell the story often about meeting with, uh, a man named Dad Skipton, who was the chapter chairman and he would have every master counselor come into his office and he had a plaque on his wall that said, if you want to leave footprints in the sands of time, wear work boots or something to that effect. And it always struck me and he always kind of inspired me that all you have to do is decide to do it and then do it. Don't worry about everything else. So, as I became a Mason, I wasn't active in Masonry to begin with. I became a Mason to become a better DMLA advisor. the involvement in DMLA has made me appreciate the fraternity. I love my Blue Lodge. The Scottish Rite philosophy, uh, motivates me intellectually. The idea of tolerance all those lessons that the Scottish Rite stands for, separation of church and state, uh, that motivates me intellectually. Emotionally, it's always going to be the Blue Lodge. Shrine was fun. We enjoyed it. And so that was a social aspect and I still enjoy it a lot. I believe in the mission, but the Scottish Rite and Freemasonry are the things that really motivate my heart and my mind. think that plays into a lot of what I hear in my role in chatting with prospective members, with people who have stepped up and said, Hey, I want to learn more about Freemasonry. And they are seeking a mentor, that real connection of friendship and brotherhood, meaningful community engagement, and The opportunity to give back in a meaningful way, and in this somewhat crazy world that we are in these days divided where we seem to celebrate divisiveness more than we do with the collaboration. It's still again and again seems as if we have a playbook of a more happy and harmonious society if we can subdue our passions and some of our own imperfections. I agree 100%. Masonry. When I try and sell someone on masonry, it's not focusing on, you know, charity or doing good. That's a part of what we do, but masonry is about developing yourself so that the charity is the natural result of what it is. And so I think the focus of masonry, at least it has been for me, is self improvement. And I have lots of areas I can improve on, but masonry helps. It helps remind me of where I am and when I get mad on the road, I think about. Am I being a good mason? Am I being tolerant? Am I subduing my passions? a lot of masons I'm finding aren't aware of the original definition of charity, dating back to the writing of our ritual and some of our value teachings, Charity really stripped down is about brotherhood. It's about friendship. It's not just, it's still synonymous with giving and providing relief to those in need, but there really is something to that bond of friendship and being there for one another. the topic of mentoring continues to be such a, popular topic and something that Seems like everyone in the world regardless of how old or young they might be everyone needs A mentor and do you have a memory of someone who was your mentor either someone we may know or may not know Yeah, certainly there are people throughout my life at different phases That have inspired me and continue to inspire me the dad skipped and I mentioned there were people along the way in demille and masonry that You their memory still makes me want to do better. Anyone in particular? There was a fellow in Iowa named Miles Bites. He was executive officer of DMLA. We worked many a leadership conference where we teach kids leadership skills, but Miles was just a Mason's Mason. He was quiet, never had a position of leadership other than running DMLA. and there's been a number of other guys in that. mold, Ronnie seal, the former grand commander of the schedule. Yes. He was, he was that kind of guy. He could motivate me without ever saying anything. He was a mentor, but he probably never knew it. He did it because he showed me how to do it by the way he acted. Isn't that amazing. Some of the most powerful leaders, mentors, or influencers are so often not set out to be bold or to make a big statement. They just sort of Live their life. They're, they're doing it. Every day and how that can be so contagious for lack of a better term. Couldn't agree with you more. I mean, Jim Cole's another example of just somebody who you think my schedule looks bad. You should look at his schedule. Oh, I can't even imagine. But because of the grace and the humor and the honesty in dealing with tough decisions, I mean, every time we have a meeting. And we have to address one of those very difficult things. I'm just inspired. I want to be like that. 100 percent. And not long ago, we had a guest here from the Grand Lodge in New York, Oscar Allen, who we both know. And he chatted a bit about some of his travels and collaborating with the northern and southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite and also with Prince Hall. And there's some really exciting things happening out there on the collaboration front of getting together. Truly, uh, the, the unity that's happening, especially we see it in the Scottish Rite is, is really inspiring and motivating right now. Absolutely is. And I think that's attributable to Grand Commander Cole. Um, he's been a mover in that. He invited me to be part of his entourage. I've never been in an entourage before to go to the Prince Hall Northern Masonic Jurisdiction Scottish Rite session. And it was a marvelous experience, but in watching the two Sovereign Grand Commanders of the Prince Hall and the Grand, the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Northern Jurisdiction, it is apparent that all four of them are interested in the unity and the statement that it sends. And we may not be able to change every Grand Lodge and every Mason's opinion, but we can lead by example. And so, if there's a organizational mentorship, I think the Scottish Rite is trying to fill that. No doubt about it. And that statement of unity that took place in September of 2022, was very powerful. And that's something that Oscar and I talked about. it's great to see that not only that occurred and that statement was made, but it's more than just saying the words and aligning ourselves with the sentiment. The work is actually in motion and being done to go out there and do the hard work that makes the difference at the end of the day. And we all have so many resources that we can share. Grand Commander Cole created and gave to the Prince Hall Northern Masonic Jurisdiction the KCCH program. Oh. As you know, the Northern Jurisdiction doesn't have it, and neither of the Prince Hall Jurisdictions didn't have it. So he bestowed the first KCCH red hat on Grand Commander Blasemore. Wow. And it was kind of cool. They voted and they want to implement the program to honor some of their younger guys. That's great to hear. and on that similar point about doing the work that needs to be done. And that's something that all of us can do as Blue Lodge. Minnesota Freemasons and beyond to take The teachings and take the tenets of our profession as we say meaningful friendship charity or relief Being that upstanding that that person that is embracing timeless core values and be the change out there not just talk about it Not just acknowledge that. Yes. These are the things that we align ourselves with which is the first step but there's a big difference between just So it's all about, um, aligning ourselves with the right or wrong side of something, but then actually going out and doing the work, even if it's in a small little case by case basis every day. I agree. We too often can cop out and not do the right thing. I can't tell other grand lodges what to do, but I can show them that we're doing it. And we're doing it. Well, We in Minnesota are so lucky to have a climate that's progressive when it comes to those type of things. And we can be proud that we were one of the first states to have full recognition of Prince Hall Masonry. So that's a part of our history that we have walked the walk. We did what we should have done many years ago, but we were among the first to do it. And we still reap the benefits of it today. time and again, in the conversations I'm having with. gentlemen that are seeking additional information for themselves to pursue Freemasonry, for their family, their wife, and kids to be involved in some of the social sides of things. The world, is it safe to say, has never craved more a place where we can be non sectarian, apolitical, leave the hot button topics at the door and come together as friends and as humans and have that person to person connection. That's certainly the aspirational goal. We don't always succeed in it, but I gave a speech once at a Grand Lodge I attended this last week. And the topic was, you know, where else in the world can men of different faiths and political persuasions you know, walk arm in arm for the betterment of humanity. That's kind of a broad aspirational goal, but I truly believe it. We've got to start with doing what's right, not just talking about what's right. Like I say, I'm very proud to be a Minnesota Mason because we have done what's right. We don't just talk about it. It's really motivating and inspiring when we strip this down and talk about it in that context. And you've had a lot of travels over the years to some, I'm sure, very fun or unique places, but speaking on the memory front, what would you say is a top or even top three memories of travels, of meetings, people that you've met? Oh, that's a tough question. I had the opportunity after serving DMLA on their national board to make the first ever presentation for DMLA to the Conference of Grandmasters of North America. Now it didn't hurt that the meeting was in Honolulu, but I was able to put together a presentation. I had to teach myself how to use PowerPoint because that was this little unknown program that nobody had used. And we were able to present not the Grandmasters. I asked not to talk to them. I wanted to talk to the second and third in command. to tell them what they should expect from their DMLA executive officers, and it was really a task list that they should hold their executive officers accountable for, but it ended up being this marvelous discussion about interaction between DMLA and Grand Lodges. It was back in 1998, and it still is very memorable because I thought it made an impact. Who knows if it did, but I received compliments for it and I was very happy with the substance of what we provided. We didn't just stand up and say, thank you for your support, come to our meetings. We need more members. I tried to give them tools that they could actually use in making DMLA and masonry better in their estate. the way that was teed up in a way that could still have a ripple effect of effectiveness efficiency for several generations after that. Well, yeah, you hope so. I mean, on the other hand, uh, I was a newly elected grandmaster of DLA. My son, Andy, who's now 40 was 13. I think it just joined DLA. And so I went out to the conclave of Southern California. They're famous for having 500 boys plus adults at their banquet. I took my son and I hooked him up with a little local Demilay chapter there and said, he's not the grandmaster's son. He's just a kid. And they adopted him and it was great. So we come time for the banquet and they have these long four hour banquets, but it came time for me to speak. And I gave just what I thought was a really great speech. All the adults are saying, Hey, I had a boy, good job. I asked my son on the airplane home, what'd you think of my speech? And he goes, You spoke at the banquet? So it was very humbling. Where was he at the time? Or were they just distracted with some kid stuff? He was at the table with the other guys that he had met, his new best friends and the girls, the sweethearts that were there. And, you know, a four hour banquet. It's not going to hold the attention of young kids. Well, yeah, that is true. I didn't think about the an hour long banquet is probably challenging enough, especially for young people. But What else comes to mind on that in terms of the back to Scottish Rite for a moment as the SGIG for the state of Minnesota What else is on the horizon in the future Delivering our lessons through the ritual, through the degrees, in a better, more classy way. And all the Valleys are doing well in that regard. We try and work hand in hand with Blue Lodge Masonry. I mean, I believe that by being an active Scottish Rite member, you're a better Blue Lodge Mason. And if there's ever a symbiotic relationship, that's it. I'm encouraging my personal representatives to work with the lodges, work with the district representatives to try and be complementary of what we do. We're not in competition with each other, we're to complement each other. All the valleys have the same issues, trying to balance the budget, trying to maintain the building, trying to deliver programs, trying to get people to come. And so I'm continually trying to challenge them to come up with new ideas, to execute that same program, the delivery of the, the tenants of Freemasonry and Scottish Rite. It's great to hear. And I recall hearing Jim Cole say at a conference in the last couple of years that two thirds of the, Blue Lodge Masons who do join the Scottish Rite are that much more active. There's a true retention there. There's been that push pull about, well, don't join the Appendant Body because, and I'm all for maybe somebody joining a Blue Lodge and staying, really digesting Freemasonry, the tenets of what we do and the experience, really understanding what it means to be a Mason. Before rushing into the Scottish Rite or one of the Appendant bodies, but when the time is right, those that do it is a great back and forth that that same brother is two thirds of the time, more active in their blue lodge than they would've been otherwise. Very complimentary. Well, and those statistics are pretty clear that if you're a member of an independent body, you're much like less likely to be dropped for NPD. My job as a Mason is to get them back in the Lodge and show them that we have something to offer. If they want to continue to pay dues so they can march in a band or drive a motorcycle, God bless them. But my challenge as a Lodge member is to offer them something. Invite them back. Make, make them sure they know they're welcome. Yeah. And what are we doing to. show them as an outsider. They don't know. They just know they want to join the shrine or independent body, but then what are we doing to give them that value in getting involved, staying involved, and then complimenting both, ideally balancing that schedule of involvement. Not enough, but I think individual lodges do good jobs at making sure they're invited back, making sure they're not embarrassed. And so, there's opportunities in every lodge to find somebody who didn't find what they were looking for originally. But, times change. People change. So we've got to continually take care of our brothers. Uh, bye. inviting them, making sure they're welcome back. Sometimes it's very crucial. It's a great way to. To reach out to any brothers. You think of a brother randomly, check in with him, send a text, send an email, make a phone call. How are you doing? Start out with just knowing what's going on in each other's lives and then really being able to extend that welcome back to lodge. Hey, if your time and your schedule allows, we'd really like to see you again. Just to have you back amongst our brothers again. Something as simple as what Dave Camp does in the Minneapolis Valley. A birthday card to every member on his birthday. Those little things when they're contacted, not only for getting dues paid, but just, we remember you. We want you. What do you see as the future of the craft? As we talked about today, there's a huge wish and desire. generally speaking out in society for what we stand for. And although we talk about this frequently on this podcast, we may not get back to the days of 70, 000 members in our state overnight, but in terms of the quality experience in What the world wants? And quite honestly needs out there. What does that look like in your perspective? Well, if I were the king of the world and could, yes exactly. Could you just wave the wand? What would you do? I would start at the Grand Lodge level and make sure that we're delivering quality programs from the annual communication one day to May is free. Quality in term, I think we offer quality programs now, but quality programs that young men middle aged men want. You know, breakout sessions at the in your communication. I'm going to be more than just getting the districts together to talk business. They've got to be somewhat inspirational, motivational. The charity's breakfast. We need to make sure that we're presenting things in a classy, competent, professional manner that's mentoring for organizations again. If we do it right, maybe it'll inspire some of the lodges to do it right. I think that we're going to get smaller before we get bigger. And I think we need to quit worrying about it. I think we have programs in place to address that. But we have the ritual and the teachings that are timeless in my mind. So I think we'll get smaller before we get bigger and stronger. I don't think we'll ever get to the size we were after the wars. I think it'll be a more stable environment in 15 years. Most definitely. And the things you shared are definitely in motion and being worked on, but to your point, before we can think about growing in a meaningful way where we retain our members, it's providing that experience and thinking about things through a slightly different approach than maybe past generations have. And especially on that education front that I'm seeing. First hand that lodges, when they talk about education, certainly the Masonic education is important. It's a foundation of what we do, but also interjecting some non Masonic education, having content that is relevant and meaningful to our members outside of the setting of the lodge. That could be so many different things too. Absolutely. The Valley of Duluth had a presentation on. I don't know what you would call it. How to tie your tie, how to tie a bowtie. An etiquette type thing? It was more than just etiquette, but it was like men's style. I accuse you of being a fancy man sometimes, but it was, it was Extremely informative and the brothers kept the guy answering questions for almost an hour. Wow, and he was a haberdasher So he talked about different types of clothing and what the standard rules were and how they were Changing and you know morning suits and the whole history of it Well, I always thought I knew something about it But I learned a lot and the fact that the brothers who are primarily older men with a mixture of younger They It's a great question. kept an hour of questions. Wow. That speaks to what is needed. I think education, I dread, uh, Leo presentations that are what does Masonry mean to you? I don't, I'm just not, it's not that I'm uncomfortable with it, but what you interpret this to be is okay, maybe interesting. I'd rather hear a mixture of hard topics like Masonic Presidents or, the Morgan affair or whatever. I'm interested in non Masonic education as well. I don't think we always have to have a Leo presentation in the middle of a lot of meeting. I like them when they're at dinner. I like them at dinner, but to your point, I like to hear something that I, I wouldn't get at home. I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily seek that out or have that book on the shelf or, or on the iPad that I could just pull that up, like something that's maybe a A little more unique and out of the box a bit. And we talked about the, the clothing, the sartorial thing, and that was really a reminder. We don't teach that anymore as we, you and I learned it from dads and grandparents, but it's, it's something that we've seen that in also the civility project that we've partnered with Masonic Charities on that has really been impactful for young people and their parents. It's talking about the need for young people to be embracing core values that why it's important to be that change, especially at that age. And I'm really excited about the civility project. Also we've called the civility school in which we're going out into communities, helping young people navigate this crazy world we live in with digital so different than from an. Um, and it's not just, you know, guys like you and I were younger, but it's also better showcasing what Freemasonry is. And that's, that's so huge. Tom McCarthy had an idea once I could never execute. And he had an idea of lodges holding a breakfast once a month, calling it men of character or an adult male. And a teenager would come for breakfast and some sort of a motivational speech on what it means to be a man. And I always loved the idea. I could never pull it off, but I still think it's a good idea. I know of a handful of lodges out there doing that monthly breakfast and get together. And it's so huge on the brotherhood side of things, knowing what's going on in each other's lives. And those are the times over coffee, breakfast, having a beverage together where we really get to, strip away all of the stress and the layers of work and family and all of our other obligations and just truly being there for one another as authentic friends and brothers. Before we wrap up today, I just want to say thank you for all of the time that you have put into all of the different layers of the Masonic family. The Blue Lodge being serving as Grand Master, Appendant Body Involvement, you really are an inspiration to our Blue Lodge Masons to carve out a little more time to really focus on the foundation of what it is to be a Mason and to go out in the world and be that difference. Well, I appreciate your words, but I feel self conscious because it's been a labor of love. I'm passionate about masonry. I love it. I may not be the most emotional guy, but I'm a dedicated guy. I haven't done anything I didn't want to do. I've enjoyed every minute of it. Well, and that to me is a true servant leader. You're not in it for anything other than the love of what we stand for and what we set out to do. That's it. I, I detest titles. I would prefer nobody call me Most Worshipful or SGIG and just call me Tony. And I just enjoy the participation. While the honors are required at times, but at the end of the day, we're all brothers. Exactly. Brother to brother and friend to friend and then please say, Hi to Bev for us and your family. And it's just been, I really appreciate you carving out time to visit the studio today and get to know you more, a little more about your, your background and how the journey of life arrived here today. Well, I appreciate you having me. Tony Kral. Thank you so much. This has been another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.