Episode 66. Slow Sustainable Progress (ft. Clinton Christensen)

Every once in a while, we sit down with a true Renaissance man: our very own Clinton Christensen. The youngest of 14 kids, an accomplished French Horn player, show choir singer, and certified EMT. Can you say well-rounded? 

Reed and Clint discuss the “rumination trap,” paralysis of analysis, and establishing authentic friendships as the bedrock of the lodge experience. Cue up the John Philip Sousa, it’s an all-new Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries.

Transcript

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Hello again everyone and welcome back. It's another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries. My guest today has been on the list to get into the studio, and I'm happy to see you here finally. It's been a long wait. Clint Christensen. Welcome. Thank you for having me, Reid. You were born in November of 1979 in Minneapolis. Lived in Edina until you were in third grade, and then moved to Bloomington. Went to Jefferson High School. Now, during the course of these interviews, I like to ask, tell us something about you that we may not know, and I did not know that you played the French horn. In concert and marching bands. And you were a singer in the jazz and concert choirs? I did. Little known fact. Um, yeah, I played, I music was a huge part of my life from as far back as I can remember until I started my career in the home improvement industry and, had to work and didn't have the time for. Orchestras and bands. But yeah, it was a full-time French horn player. Is that something you think about? I should pull that out and play it again. And it just, time goes too fast. All the time. Yeah, all the time. You also enlisted into the delayed entry program of the United States Marine Corps. Passed by auditions to play the French horn for your country. But due to family obligations you did not enlist once that term expired. Studied, uh, studied music at Normandale Community College. Then started making a living, see adulthood gets in the way. Mm-hmm. Conflicted with studies and stopped two credits short of your associate's degree to begin your career. But you did get your AA degree, you finished in home improvement business, is that correct? I did Still constantly learning in recently. You became an EMTI What was that like? It was fun. It was fun. we do a lot of camping and thought that, um, learning how to splint legs and any of that would be a, a good education to have in the event of an emergency. Um, still kind of figuring out what I want to do with that. Maybe a volunteer, firefighter volunteer, EMT something, Certainly a good resource if you're off the grid and camping and someone needs Sure. Some immediate help or, you know, I mean, given our average age in this fraternity, if somebody hits the floor, it's, it's good to know CPR and, you know, ways of resuscitation. Very true. I, I don't even, why I saw the stat recently that firefighters. 80 to 85% of the calls they go on are medical assists. Yeah. I had no idea. Yeah, it makes sense though. Very little, very little firefighting in a firefighter's world. I wonder if volunteers know that when they sign up They must, you know, having gone to several meetings, they do a pretty good job of telling you that. Okay, good. I would, but their training is all first responders, so Yeah. It's not quite as in depth as a, as an EMT or a paramedic. I admire you for doing that'cause I, thanks. Just don't have the stomach for that. And God knows we need people with those skills around us at all times. Now you also worked at two major home improvement companies from 2001 to 2009. You started your own company. You've had multiple companies over the years, house flipping, remodeling, investment properties. On the personal side. Parents divorced in 1981. Your dad, he moved to Nevada in 1984. He did? Yeah. My, my dad was in Minnesota for a short period of time when he met my mom, and as soon as they split, uh, he went to warmer climates, never to come back to Minnesota in his, in his older years when he had to choose whether to be close to me or my sister. It was an easy choice for him. My sister lived in Las Vegas. Okay. So that's where he went for all the same reasons you had said your dad was a superhero in the courier business and mom unfortunately suffered a stroke in oh seven. Some pretty serious side effects, but now getting great care in the Minnesota Masonic home right here. Absolutely. Yeah. Six siblings and I belief you had shared when your father was married to his third wife. His wife had seven kids. So you were the youngest of 14. Yeah. And someday, I'll show you the picture of that family reunion when I was four. they had both been married their first marriages, they both had five children, both had a set of twins. I. All roughly about the same age. Then they both got divorced and married their second spouses. My dad marrying my mom both had two about the same age. Mm-hmm. By the time they got together, they were high school sweethearts, so by the time they got together, they both had seven kids. Wow. Uh, thankfully for all of us, they didn't have more. But yeah, the youngest of of 14 kids. It was an ex, it was a interesting childhood. It's a level of chaos. I can't even fathom. Yeah. You know, they were all significantly older. So my oldest sister is 20 years older than me, so they weren't, we really, none, none of us ever lived in the same houses. Okay. Um, my brother, my, my mom's second or first child, my brother, we, we lived together for the majority of our lives, but the rest of'em, you know, kind of came and came and went. Mm-hmm. College, uh, other parents and things like that. So. Sure. On the Masonic side, you petitioned and were initiated in Corinthian Lodge, number 67 in February of 2013, served as master in 2018. You were a district rep 2019 to 2021 area Deputy since 2021, and also a first grade monitor. So you're obviously very skilled in the memorization and the details. Known as our, our ritual. Mm-hmm. That's outstanding on that. And while you were not high school sweethearts, you've known your wife Emily since 1991. I've always wondered, how was it, you could be best friends in high school, you part ways for a while and then reconnect and here you are. That's, that's so cool. So yeah, we, here we are, 90, 91 is when we, we, we went down memory lane one night and pulled out all our old yearbooks and that was the year that we signed each other's yearbooks. So that's kind of the date. It, it might be earlier than that, but that was the date where, you know, we circled pictures and. Signed each other's yearbooks. yeah, when we were best friends throughout high school, we kissed once. It was weird. Um, we kind of decided not to do that again. And then, uh, after high school, she went off to college. I went and did the things that you've already mentioned. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, via Facebook, we reconnected and I don't know, what year did I put there? 20. 12 ish. 2013. 2012. 2013. Yep. Bought a hobby farm 2015. Married in 2016. You have three kids together. Love to travel. I know London is a big highlight for you guys. Mm-hmm. Camp whenever you can. Always looking for some crazy adventure. Mm-hmm. So you're a busy family man. You have projects going on of all varieties at all times. Clearly a very dedicated and busy Freemason. Mm-hmm. the other day we were chatting about the Masonic experience that we are in the relationship business. Mm-hmm. And so often we talk about who we are and what we do with somewhat of that insider baseball terminology. when you really boil it down, the Masonic experience is really about authentic friendship, personal developments and building community, both internally and in our literal communities. How do we go about providing that experience that our new and existing members are seeking? You know, I think a lot of that comes back to, and I've, I've picked up and started talking about it more and more is the, the brand recognition that you and John have been doing in your civility project and trying to get our image from being the, you know, older guys sitting around playing whatever game it is that that lodge plays, you know, with, with coffee and, and turning it into and attracting the younger. Generations to be doing things in the community. Um, whether that's, you know, the, the waffle breakfasts, which we've done forever, or if that's, you know, working at a food shelf or donating FSTs and, and fire suppression. Yeah, yeah. Fire suppression. Um, and those, and those types of things. And increasing the, the brand awareness, you know, to get back to that point where. The cashier at the gas station knows exactly where the Masonic Lodge is.'cause either he or his father, you know, is a Mason, you know? Oh yeah. Down the street there. They're, I share this frequently on the podcast that in speaking with a. The new generation of young men seeking more information and possibly joining a Masonic Lodge, the number one thing they want is the opportunity to give back to the greater good. To do something in that. Mm-hmm. Around that building community piece. And when I visit a lodge that maybe has little to nothing going on in that realm, that's a problem. And there's a lot of them that have little to nothing going on in that realm. And there are some that are doing a fantastic job. in the construction trades, you know, the, the, the, the desire is always good, fast, and cheap. And we've always said you can, you can have any two. Um, hold on. I want to good, fast, cheap, and cheap. Yeah, but pick two. But yeah, you can't, you just can't have good, fast and cheap, right? You can't have good and fast, or you can have cheap and good, but. you know, in, in the Masonic world, it seems like those three things are, you know, say charity, ritual, um, and community. And it seems as though in my travels, I found lots of lodges that have two. It's kind of the same thing. Mm-hmm. You can, you can have any two. Um, but the, but the lodges that are doing amazing work on charity and ritual are not doing real great in the community or the ones that are doing really great in the community, and they've got fellowship and they're, you know. Doing things outside the lodge. Well then the ritual's terrible. I've been trying to find a lodge that fires on all three, but I don't know that it exists. And I think there's several that are making the effort towards it. Mm-hmm. I know that that, that three legged stool analogy is very difficult to have all of those aspects at a hundred percent. But making the effort at least to cover that and not just say, well, we we're just not gonna be good at that, is. A big portion of what we've been actively working on with lodges to mm-hmm. Share what's the shortcoming or where's the, where's the area of opportunity that the lodge wants to improve? Is it, is it with the bonding as friends and brothers with some authenticity? I. Is it in the personal development or the lodge education, something meaningful, something relevant. And we just talked about that building community piece.'cause that could, it's not just going out into our respective cities and suburbs and donating our time at a food shelf. It, it is partially that, but the building communities also internally as well. Sure. Well, and if you don't have the external part of that and you're having membership problems, that's part of your membership problem. It happens a bit too often where we share that this is what the Masonic experience entails. And once a new member goes through the process and becomes a voting member, becomes a master mason, and then may say, Hey, by the way, where is blank that you basically promised is going to be part of this experience. We time and again, it feels like we, I. Keep looking for a complicated answer to some relatively simple questions when we address that. Mm-hmm. You know that if you listen to this podcast, I like to quote all sorts of influencers and authors, and I'm such a big fan of James Clear. He wrote a book. Mm-hmm. Atomic Habits. He's on the podcast circuit himself. He said the following quote. It's so easy to overestimate the importance of one defining moment and underestimate the value of making small improvements on a daily basis. Too often we convince ourselves that massive success requires massive action, and it could be anything, losing weight, starting a business, achieving any goal. I would add to that improving an aspect of the Masonic experience at the lodge level, and he finishes this by saying, we put pressure on ourselves to make some earth shattering improvement that everyone will talk about unquote. before you read that, I was gonna say, you know, from a community aspect, um, getting back to that for just a second, that you don't have to have this grandiose plan of, you know, how are we gonna raise the money for an FST, for instance, so that we can donate back to our community. A lot of times it's just showing up. Yeah, right. We, um, uh, to pick on my own lodge for a minute, we own a cemetery just on the other side of Farmington I found out at one point that we were having that there's a huge Memorial Day celebration in our cemetery. We have a flag by a, by a marker for the unknown soldier. Um, the firefighters mark their headstones. Um, our, um, sextant marks the Masonic headstones, the VFW marks, and there's this huge, they get the, wind ensemble from the high school to play all the military marches, and it's this big event. Nobody in the lodge knew about it. and I made this, I made this huge stink and, and kinda shamed. Everybody said, you know, they're having a party in our house and we're not there. Right. and now, so every year, um, I reached out to the yellow Ribbon network who's in charge of the whole thing. And, and now on Fridays before Memorial Day, we go out and we mark the. Um, cemetery and help with that. And we show up with our lodge shirts and we don't really do anything. We just make, it's just a presence. Sounds like all the pieces were in place. Yeah, we did. You know, but I thought, geez, you know, what kind of message are we sending if we don't show up to a party in our cemetery? Right. You know, to, for lack of a better explanation. And now we go, you know, now it's, it's a annual event on our calendar that this is happening on Monday. If you can help set up on Friday, if you can help tear down on Tuesday, really only takes two or three people to go yank markers and. I, I mean, that, that's, that's the example that you don't have to have a, a huge event or plan a huge event, which, you know, we're all, um, overtaxed in many ways. Just gotta show up, Show up in reminding ourselves that it doesn't always have to be a complicated equation to start doing something with small momentum and build on that. And, and maybe that's the endurance that we lack in this world in general. We we're so used to pushing that button, push button, get banana, push button, and uh, social media, Amazon. Mm-hmm. It's immediate. It's just really challenging to. Not fall into what I once heard described recently is the the rumination trap. May I share a another interesting perspective? The rumination trap is that you're trying to forecast into the future, and unless you can get a perfect outcome, you just kick the can down the road. Ultimately, there's not any road left except for a bunch of cans. You could have resourcefulness, clear thinking, but without intentionalism, you're basically screwed. I. I heard that on a, a podcast called Modern Wisdom Thought. Wow, is that, does that not describe how we operate sometimes, or what it does? We forecast into the future, but unless that outcome feels perfect, we just keep kicking that can. Yep. So how do we get out of the rumination cycle? The difference between clear thinking and muddy thinking? You draw it out, write it down. Create an equation. Don't listen to the voice that whispers it can't work, or it may not be an overnight mass of success, or people will judge me if it's not a hundred percent success, perfection, or whatnot. Well, there's a, there's a few things there, right? Um, we need as a, as an organization, and I think pretty much every lodge will say that. Is that it? We've got a lot of lodges where those ideas are being done by one person, true, or two people, right? Mm-hmm. Or however many, not enough. Um, lots of idea guys. And, and that then the, the whatever event or action you want to take falls on the same people. And those people have generally, to your point, um, failed at it and realized that, that they're not gonna get judged. Right. That if it's, if it's this epic failure and it gets canceled or, or nobody shows up, I. I think everybody will acknowledge that, hey, at least you tried. Yeah. At least you, you, you, you tried to make it happen. And sorry that, you know, maybe we could have done this differently. Maybe we could have done different this differently, but you did everything that you could have done to make it happen or to make it successful. To at least give that, that effort. It, it's right. The same conversation I'd heard they were talking about. There's this endless loop of thoughts. You can always have an old thought in a slightly new way, which gives it a sense of novelty. It's why we like to get together as men and just kinda rehash the same thing. Old thoughts are familiar to us and it gives us comfort, right? It's fun to discuss and we stay sometimes in life in general or thinking about lodge activities. We stay in a static doom loop type of cycle, and we focus on outcomes. Not inputs, rather than calling it a decision, call it an experiment. Right.'cause when you really boil it down, five years spent ruminating about different options, you spend more time making a decision than it would've taken to see whether it was going to work or not. And you do. And you the, what's that other saying? You, you mentioned a saying earlier before we were live. Um. We used to, in, in the sales world, we'd call it paralysis of analysis. Yeah. Right. And you, and, and my family will tell you that, that one of the things I can't stand the most is just continuous talking about doing something right to the, to where I'm the guy that stands up and say, all right, here we go. We're gonna go, we're gonna give this a shot. We're gonna try this. you touched on something a few moments ago about the challenge of having a small amount. Of people, of personnel doing the majority of the work. Used to hear that as the 80 20 rule. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In corporate America, in fraternal and civic organizations and church settings, sometimes that feels like it's even more of a 90 10. Mm-hmm. How do we remedy that? Is it is simple, possibly as leveraging some new opinions, some new takes on things. How do we give that sense of ownership, and especially with the lodge setting. To have someone say, I want to help with this, and give them the runway to like, like we were alluding to in all of this, to give something a shot, try something new, and it may not be an overnight success, but let's try. in my opinion, you, you said it is to give them the runway to succeed or fail and be okay with it if they fail. Right. It's, it's kind of like. I'll compare it to our ritual. You got a, a new guy that's learned a new part. He doesn't know it real well, but he wants to be, you know, a senior deacon for a degree. and yet you've got five guys in the rooms room that are, are proficient, they're monitors or custodians. Um, for our listeners that don't know what that means, they have tested out and know the script, basically word for word with pinpoint accuracy, right? Um, so now you got this new guy that's learned it. And he is for the candidate going through the degree, it's best to let that guy that, you know, is gonna be perfect.'cause that's gonna give the candidate the best experience. But the only way for the new guy to become that guy is to let him fail a few times and let the candidate have a lesser experience. Right. So there's a, a catch 22 to the whole thing. Mm-hmm. but all the people that do it with pinpoint accuracy didn't always. So when it comes to that event, getting back to that, if you're going to let a new guy handle an event, be his mentor, which we also are not particularly good at, like, Hey, uh, Reed, we need you to have this party that we've never done. Here's, here's what I want you to do. Off you go fire and forget. Yeah. Right. And then if it, if it wins, great. If it fails, then we just never ask greed to do it again. Um. And, and, and ridicule, and shame him in the process, right? No. Well, well, at least he tried. Right? but if you let that, that guy give him the runway to fail and, and maybe not to fail, but to not do as good as, as, as you would've done, right? Or, or the other, you know, 10% of guys that have been doing it. but then work with him to improve it. Right. The, the after after action report, what can we, what could we have done better? What can we do better next year? You know, do we do it again next year and, and do quit and quit expecting it to be this amazing success the first time. That really plays into mentoring in an active way of. We just had a couple laughs about it, but not the fire and forget not, Hey, go do this and I'm just gonna ignore the person that I'm delegating this to. Mm-hmm. And then I'm gonna have these high expectations on it, actively checking in details, execution, sharing institutional knowledge of something we may have tried that was either great or wasn't so great. But I, I can't stop thinking about the, let's look at this through the corporate setting or through the job site. You bring on an apprentice. Mm-hmm. Who is trained in certain skills. You're building a home, you're building a structure, or in a corporate setting, someone new, New-Ish is going to manage a project. I. How would we handle that in those settings? If a mistake was made in, in the work world, we would not just castigate someone. We might acknowledge, obviously we have to acknowledge what didn't go well, but we would break that down and help develop them, mentor them to get it even better next time. Sometimes we're a product of our own criticism. Mm-hmm. Where. Are we just simply wanting that a hundred percent accuracy in our ritual or with an event that if it doesn't raise$10,000 the first try, then it was an abject failure. Mm-hmm. No, neither of that. There's, like you said, there's, there's a catch 22 that really is vital in life and in lodge. Sure. to relate it to the job world for home shows, for instance, right? A lot of, a lot of what we do in the remodeling world is home shows, right? The convention centers and the small high schools, and you know, the big ones, the small ones. we used to have a rule, um, that before we called a show a success or a failure, we had to give it three years. Because there's all sorts of outside factors that, that come in. Um, we did an event, uh, we had a ritual competition that we tried. Uh, of course the first year was covid. So we would, we would call that a failure. Um, the second year there was a snowstorm. Uh, we, and we had to cancel. So we would call that a failure, right? All out of our control. And the third year, it just didn't happen. Uh, we just didn't do it again.'cause I think people were, nobody. Nobody registered, no teams registered. So. But if you were to gauge it off of either of those first two events and say, well, nobody showed up because there was 12 inches of snow, we're never gonna do that again. Well, it's not gonna have 12 inches of snow every year. Right. It's Mother nature. Right. Come on in April it's, and that's when it was. Or Covid. You know, what are the odds that there's gonna be a pandemic again? So hopefully not in our lifetime falls into. Playing the long game. Mm-hmm. We talk about Simon Sinek on this podcast a lot. The, the infinite perspective that he talks about is really what is really the key to success in any organization, whether it's the work world, the volunteer world, looking at making sure that I'm leaving this in a better condition than I found it. Mm-hmm. Which sometimes feels a tad cliche, but it's so, so true. Right. I always look at, uh, star Lodge. The hog roast. Sure. It's coming up when with time of recording. Very soon they have been. Slowly building that event for over 40 years. Oh, wow. And they do incredible work. They raise a ton of money, but that started out small. Yeah. It was managing those expectations and taking those slow, sustainable progress steps. There's, there's several of those, right? Uh, red Wing has their salsa, on the first Tuesday of. April? Yes. Coming up on April 1st Is the time of this recording? Yeah. April 1st. Um, and that started as a, as a fairly small event and now is just huge. Um, the, uh, Dave Vice Memorial Clay shoot. Yes. I maybe not, maybe not using the right words in that title, but Helios Lodge also started as a small event and now is, is huge. That's coming up in, uh, first weekend in May. Sure. The common thread for all of these, we could list many, many more. Sure. Is that it's been a slow burn in building momentum. It takes extended focus and more personnel than just a handful of, of guys and their families to make it a success and to keep mm-hmm. The snowball effect going. Well, and you brought up that the, the idea of, you know, having an event and if you don't make, you know,$10,000, then it's a failure. Well, if you make.$1,000, it's a success. And then if you make 1500 the next year, that's a, yeah. Better success. Right. How long does it take to get to that 10,000? And that obviously depends on a variety of things. Right? Well, and in fairness to what's, what's the reach, what did we do to impact? Mm-hmm. What, what did that event do to impact a young person, a community, somebody in need? Right. I know of a smaller lodge. Within the central portion of the state, they do a book drive every year. Mm-hmm. It may not be the biggest event ever, but I can tell you unequivocally that the foundation that receives that donation of the books, the students and the kids and the families appreciate it so, so very much for even touching a handful of lives, that's a win. Mm-hmm. I've noticed over the years that, that we as a fraternity are really good at advertising our events to ourselves. And I, and I think we're all guilty of it, um, from the top down to the smallest lodge that if you want to a, have a successful event or, um, fundraiser like we're talking about, or if you want to have, IM improve your brand. We as a fraternity need to be advertising outside of our own walls, and getting out into the local community, right? Flyers in, in, in shop windows and public Facebook. Posts and social media, not, you know, the Freemasons homepage or Right. You know, the private groups that we all have, you know, we're all talking to ourselves. Yes. And that, and that's something we're really putting a big push and effort into, especially around Masonic charities. Mm-hmm. And I know you're a big supporter of Minnesota Masonic charities. Mm-hmm. And that's something that we want to continue. Bringing the lodge experience closer together with what the work charities is doing With the September gala every year We are very fortunate in Minnesota to have our Masonic Cancer Center, our Masonic Children's Hospital, and the several other endeavors we have through Masonic Charities. And the commitment of growing that support as far as medical research, children's health. That is something that we not only should be proud of to have right here in our backyard, but something that every Mason in Minnesota has a piece of that. And when I go out in my travels and we, we talk about, well, how would you like to support, I. Sometimes the answer may be, well, I, I don't necessarily have a, a huge amount that I could contribute. That's okay. You've heard me say this before. None of us will ever know who's$5, whose a hundred dollars will be the amount that pushes that research into a next, the next level of breakthrough. Yeah. Um, John's always, always said, I've heard him speak at lodges. You know that, that it's a, it's a combination of lots of tens and twenties. You know, not, it's not millions or tens of thousands that people are donating. For the most part, it's There is a lot of planned giving that does occur, and that's very much encouraged and, happy to help with those accommodations. But you're right, it, it's give what you can when you can and knowing that it's going to such a tremendous cause, you know, and they're doing such amazing work, um, at the university that, you know, I, I look forward to the future and hope, you know, maybe in my lifetime When there is a cure for cancer, it's going to be in large part due to the work that they're doing at the University of Minnesota. and that work is in large part due to the, the donations that Minnesota Masonic Charities has given. And you know, if that happens in our lifetime, we can all hold our heads high and say, Hey, you know, we helped do that. You know, however, however we do that, whether it's time or money, or. Whatever we're doing, charitably that that feeds that effort. It will be a momentous day. Every Mason in Minnesota has a piece of that, and when that day comes, we'll have a piece of that. Mm-hmm. To hear the medical professionals like Dr. Toller and Dr. Y Dr. Poynter talk about the, they do, the work that they do. In large part, from the support of the Minnesota Freemasons, we really have something special happening. Mm-hmm. Again, right in our own state and the more of our brothers across Minnesota that Get involved in all of these endeavors, the better we're all contributing. Mm-hmm. Our time, our talents, our donations towards, to your point, that cure for cancer is coming. Yeah. You know, I, I, I'm, I'm surprised often on how many people when I've talked, when they say, Tell me about Freemasonry or whatever it was. It was, uh, recently at a U of M football game. Um, the one that, um, the Grandmaster and John had presented. Oh, November the last donation. Yes. Guy behind me started asking me questions about it, and, you know, I said I'm often surprised at how few people know a little bit about Freemasonry and they know about the Masonic hospitals. Have never connected those dots, right. That the Masonic Children's Hospital is Freemasonry and the Masonic Cancer Center is Freemasonry. And I've recently, you know when I say you've heard of the Masonic Children's Hospital? And they say, well, yeah. And I say, well, we are the Masonic. In the Masonic Children's Hospital. They go, oh wow. Never, never thought of that. Mm-hmm. Right. And then I can, then I can go down that road of, of Masonic Cancer Center, the Masonic Institute for the Developing Brain, which kind of going down those things and talking about the things that we've done in, uh, jointly with the university, And you can see the light bulb go on. You know, they kinda Oh, that Freemasonry. Okay. It's the lodge that they've driven past in their community Yeah. A thousand times and just didn't connect that the two are connected. But yeah, they're, you know, they're, they got Da Vinci Code and National Treasure over here and the, and the lodge building, or the Masonic Hospital over here and never connected. It's all the same, We all love Dan Brown's books. The Hollywood movies are entertaining very often I have that conversation with guys that are interested in learning more I tell them if, if you think there's even a, a modicum of that, that's going to be in this experience mm-hmm. You're gonna be very, very disappointed because we are about, like we talked about authentic friendship. We are in the relationship business. And we're striving to make brotherhood be a tangible thing, not just that abstract term of that, the personal development. Mm-hmm. How are we becoming, how are we taking the actions individually to become that better version of ourselves? We, we, that, that abstract line of we make good men better, not a fan, because we don't make anybody anything. We do have a roadmap of how each can, each individually and collectively become a more self-aware, better version of ourselves, better husband, better colleague, neighbor, better person in this world where there's a whole lot of static and we need less of that. And we've talked a lot about the building of the community. That's what we do. Mm-hmm. And while we have a great opportunity to continue educating on that with our brand awareness, there are some great, great things happening at the lodge level across the state. You know, that, that making good men better. It's not as though that there's a, like a class or a, or a. A degree that we put the, that you're a good man and we're gonna make you better by doing this, this, this, and this. Um, and I think that that is often misunderstood, that it's more of in my own personal experience, it's a more of being a part of something with men I admire that are inspirational to me to be a better dad. Right. They do this, you know, they did this, they made these mistakes, right? Their kids are older, they don't do this, Clint right. Do this. And I can take that home. I can, it makes, you know, and then I can take that into my marriage. I can take that into my profession. I can take that anywhere, right? And, and we all have, I'm not gonna name any names'cause I'll name the, you know, leave somebody out. But we all have those guys that we. Say, geez, I'd like to be a little bit more like that guy. Mm-hmm. Right. I get, I get off the phone with people and I, and I'll tell Emily, I'll say, geez, you know, if there's, there's one guy, you know, in the world that I'd like to be more like, it's, it's this guy right in this way. He's just in this area, so awesome. but that same, that building relationships, that is, in my opinion, the heart and soul of all, most. Successful lodges? Is that, are you doing things outside of your lodge? Are you, are you actually friends or do you just get together and, and have a quick meeting and do it as fast as you can and hit the bricks? Um, are you doing meals beforehand? Are you going out afterwards? Are you doing barbecues on the weekends and all of these things? And Corinthian Lodge in Farmington, we, we do a phenomenal job of doing that and knowing each other and liking each other. And it truly is a family. We're growing, right? People come to our lodge and just recently we've had five petitions for affiliation. Wow. That they come to our lodge and they're like, holy cow. My, my lodge doesn't do any of this. I wanna be part of this. They're not leaving their lodges, they're just mm-hmm. Coming to us for something that they're not getting in theirs. And here again, like I, I said, we have our own faults. Um, but that's just not one of'em. Versus the, you know, in my travel, sometimes I go to lodges. That gavel hits at seven 30 and by eight 30 they're out of there and the door was unlocked five minutes before the meeting and it's locked. Five minutes after the meeting. Everybody goes home. Sprinkling the word brotherhood in there. But the reality is sometimes intimate strangers. Yep. We want to continue to. Work on that. Yeah.'cause to your point, and Corinthian does a tremendous job. I visited a lodge recently, very similar. Everyone went around the, the lodge education that night was, what's going on in your life? What do you wanna share? How has Masonry impacted your life in a positive? What are you struggling with right now? Mm-hmm. Took a little bit for men, everyone, nobody wanted to maybe be the first to speak. Sure. Why was that powerful? I felt like it was brotherhood on display in that led to the following week and weeks after checking in with each other. Yeah. Hey, how, how did it go with your loved one's, surgical, whatever health issue they had? Yeah. How did it go with your, your, your child had a tryout for a a, everybody knows what's going on in each other's lives. We really are and have been. Designed to be mm-hmm. A men's support system mm-hmm. In that rollercoaster of life. But it starts with the relationships that is a foundation. Yeah. No, I'm, you know, it, that, that conversation, I, I would've loved to have been there and as the, the lodge education officer at my lodge, Those conversations are absolutely painful to get started. Yes, right. That, that getting that first guy to open up, you know, but then, you know, an hour and a half later, you can't get anybody to stop talking. You know, the masters in the east pointing at his watch, you know, you gotta wrap this up guys. so those conversations are really, really important. And some of those, um, I was gonna say, some of those private conversations that you have. Equally, you know, equally important to have with that guy. you know, personal issue that he wants to talk about. and, and having and being there for that guy when the opportunity presents itself. Well, Clint, it's been great having you in studio today and talking about a wide range of topics across the board of life of Freemasonry. On behalf of the craft. We really appreciate all that you do in your lodge and beyond you, your efforts with Grand Lodge and some of the concordant independent bodies that you're involved with. This really is the journey of a lifetime and it really takes the workers like yourself to see success. Well, thanks for having me read. It's a pleasure to be here. And, uh, truly a, a pleasure to be part of the craft and, um, laboring in the quarries. Look forward to seeing you soon, and thanks again for listening, everyone. This has been another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.