Episode 75. The Masonic Experience

What is the aim of our Labors? At times we are fixated on the efficient performance of what we’re already doing, and completely uninterested in what we’re missing out on. 

This week Reed welcomes fellow Regional Directors Markus Mueller and Ethan Seaberg to the studio.  They discuss a new model of cooperative labor, purposeful organization, and the new paradigm of Masonry in Minnesota. 

Transcript

0:00

Why do we assume that change will be worse? Is it a comfort thing? Familiarity. Muscle memory. it's because we're gonna die, Reid. Um, mortality is the fear. You know, if I can gra why do I want, my church, my lodge, my town, my life to never change? Because I know that in the end I'm gonna. If I can hold onto this one thing, this one immovable object. I'll feel my mortality less keenly. I'm convinced. I'm absolutely convinced. Interesting. I would say it's, uh, convenience and muscle memory. We don't know that change can make things better because we have seen, or we think we have seen and we remember mostly. Change that has made things worse. So we become fearful of change and do not wanna go that route. If in any aspect of our life we witnessed a decision. Maybe it was bold, maybe it was subtle, but it wasn't a home run. Then reluctance sets in. Sometimes it feels like in in life we're fixated on efficient performance of what we are already doing, and yet completely uninterested in what we're missing out on. We started this on a rather heavy note, haven't we? I actually, efficiency made me think of something, a large experience I had. Years ago ago, um, a dear friend of mine and I were, were putting a bouncy house away after this otherwise forgettable event, and we were trying to fold this thing. It was the same size as my my truck. We tried to lift it into the back. It was entirely too big. It was the most godforsaken thing. And I think I let out a stream of expletives, and I know I did. And it included the word miserable. And at the end of it, this dear brother of mine turned to me and said, Ethan, we're not miserable. We're making memories. And I've carried that, uh, because it's an excellent way to look at inefficiency. It's, we're together and we're here, and, and we're building authentic friendship, and it's not miserable. We're making memories. It's interesting when you say we're making memories because that involves time that needs to be spent. Right? And when you mention the word efficiency, and then again related to the question, why do we always expect change to make things worse? Maybe we do not. Maybe we do no longer give things enough time. We expect it to become worse. Because we live in a world that wants to have immediate and very fast returns. Short term this, it's called, right? So we don't really allow ourselves or those around us to live through change. And maybe there is a dip somewhere in the experience, but at the end we come out on a high note and it becomes better. We do not, we are not patient enough to. To actually give it enough time to see the change. That is really good. It's no surprise that we're wired this way. Everything can happen with the push of a button, Amazon, GrubHub. Mm-hmm. I don't have to leave the house for anything, and yet there are aspects of our lives that still require patients long-term perspective. Things that are more and more challenging in this world of convenience and immediate gratification that we live in. By the way, we're joined today by Marcus Mueller, regional director, who is based out of Duluth in the north, and Ethan Seaberg, regional director in Southern Minnesota based out of Red Wing. Welcome brothers. Thank you. Thank you very much. So here we are in new positions. Regional director working for both Grand Lodge of Minnesota and Minnesota Masonic Charities. Ethan, how would you best explain, breaking that down as to what we've set out to do in these roles? Well, it's, it's an interesting model and one that I'm, uh, glad to be a part of is we talked about it. It's, it's broken up intentionally into thirds. first third is intended to be an outreach of the. Grand Lodge office, a direct outreach to lodges in the state to try to increase, the efficiency and the support that we can give those lodges. The second third is member development. Something Reid you've been involved in for a number of years now to bring to lodges ideas and action to bring members into the fraternity. And the third, something, Marcus is intimately familiar with fund development. For Masonic Charities, uh, certainly, uh, but the fraternity then of course as a whole. So it's, it's an interesting model and, uh, one I think initially is, uh, is working on pretty well. And this structure is based upon other jurisdictions doing similar, a similar arrangement where lodge operations, membership experience and fund development with, in our case of Minnesota Masonic charities. Seeing both Grand Lodge and charities come closer together in our, in our United efforts. I don't know if it is by chance or if it is by design that the three of us, and you're introduced to both Ethan and me, thank you Reid, but you are the regional director for Central Minnesota, the third person in this, uh, triangle, so to say. Maybe it is by design that we are we, we come with three different backgrounds. You know, a third of our time is spent on these three areas. Membership, membership development, large support, and fund development. But our areas of expertise are in exactly these three areas. We have a, an expert in large supports in our past grant master, most worshipful brother Ethan. We have a specialist in membership in you Reed. And, um, I have spent a few years in fund development and here we are working together and learning from one another as we go. The question was posed to me recently by a brother, a rather innocent question of basically, so tell me about all the answers that you have to fix all of these areas of opportunity that we have. And I, told him outright. I, I don't, and none of us, I would say claim to have the answers, but are working closely with lodges, with our Grand Lodge officers, with Masonic Charities on. Enhancing and developing a quality experience across the board at Lodges within our entire state. You know, I wanna be cognizant, you know, Marcus, as you mentioned, um, you know, areas of expertise are what they are. And in my particular case, you know, I, this entire organization is made up of, of volunteers and I wanna be, um. You know, cognizant of the fact that I'm, you know, we're, we're, we're now professionals in what we were volunteers in for decades. and so I want that volunteer experience to be as, uh, as rewarding and enriching, and I'll use the word easy as possible, so. a, if a lodge is being hung up on some sort of governance issue, uh, and they're unable to move to a, to an event or to a, to a new place they'd like to go, or whatever the case might be, if we can ease that lift, and make the volunteer experience better, the member experience better and the lodge experience better, we've, we've succeeded. A challenge, uh, in these new roles as there is with most new jobs, most new work environments. And that is the, what you just mentioned, Ethan, that we are doing something professionally that we were doing as volunteers for, in my case, for a few years, in your cases for decades. But there's also a, a risk of conflating these two experiences. There is a masonry that I'm a part of, that I'm a volunteer in. I'm a member of a large I live ritual. I live my large experience, and I do that as brother Marcus. And then I have an experience that goes beyond that where I try to help brothers and other lodges. Whether it be membership, it'd be large support. It'd be fundraising towards certain causes within our Masonic charities, and I do that as a professional. While that is a Masonic experience, in a way it has and cannot have anything to do with the other Masonic experience I have because it could be draining. And that is something that I personally, and I don't know how you have experienced that over the past weeks, months. where we have been in these roles, um, how you have experienced that because, um, there are expectations to us and we have expectations to the fraternity where we need to set boundaries for our, um, for onic experiences. And I really and deeply appreciate the brothers who have reached out and said, if you feel there are conflicts of interest, be straightforward about those and we will also help you through these, uh, experiences. That has allowed me to continue to have a Masonic experience That is just my life's journey in Masonry. Your comments, Marcus, remind me of, uh, something I've spent a, a good chunk of my adult life in, uh, church governance. And one of the early, uh, bits of, uh, recommendations, and was made to me was to never hire anyone, uh, from the congregation. And it's because on, on, in my case, on Sunday morning, uh, the secretary wants to come and be a parishioner. Has no interest in being the secretary because it's Sunday. But how do people not talk about, you know, the, the, uh, food drive coming up this week or the, uh, confirmation documents that I didn't get. And so their experience changes dramatically, uh, as a result of being, you know, part of the paid staff. So I, I couldn't help but think of that in, you know, considering taking this position is how do you, how do you maintain that separation, uh, so that your experience can be. The kind that you signed up for. It's the reason we, we joined the fraternity in the first place and it's, uh, it's a dance. There's definitely an opportunity for all of us to be doing this full time now, to find that balance, ironically enough that we're thinking equilibrium and that 24 inch gauge. Initially when these roles launched, there was a bit of a misperception. Perhaps it was a miscommunication on where these roles fit into the greater scheme of things. We are not Grand Lodge officers. We are office staff. The district reps do not report to us, nor to the area deputies. If anything, I would think that we. We work for them. Exactly. Our roles are to ideally minimize or help, especially those busy district reps and area deputies and, and to help them with resources and answers to their questions and to do everything we can to lighten their burden. I think that's, uh, critical. Um, I hope that that's, uh, as we stand up to positions and they become more, more mature, that that's what, uh, the ADSD and DRS will see. Um, it is delightful every time, uh, one of them calls to ask, uh, a question and you can, um. Do the work and bring the value, uh, and hopefully cut down on the time a volunteer has to tho those, not only are they volunteering in their lodges, they're volunteering in those positions too. And so the more help we can bring, uh, the better. And, and I think we could define success as, as, um, those guys coming to us asking for that, that kind of assistance. What you just, uh, said, Ethan reminds me of the initial question that. Reed asked the assumption that change might not, will not produce something that is a better outcome. It's a gut reaction that we have, and we are introducing something that is not we as in the three of us, but the Masonic fraternity in Minnesota has introduced something that is unknown to the fraternal life in our state, and we have. Roles that have been lived for decades, but the people who have filled these roles, and in particular, their lives have changed. I mentioned earlier, we live much faster paced lives today, and we expect faster outcomes, but that puts all of us under a much higher pressure in our daily lives to volunteer roles as they have been 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago. Those brothers that take on volunteer work do not have as much time, not just perceived, not as much time, but they don't have that much time. They have demands from their families. They have demands in their own work life, Masonic life. So it's, it's good to see how our brothers in volunteer roles have embraced that extra support that we are able to provide for them. They are able to give the grand large office a call. Or send an email or send a text message, Hey, I need help with this question. I am new to this role as secretary, or in whatever function it may be in the lodge. And we are able to respond immediately, respectful of their time as well because their time is precious and, uh, limited that they can spend on their volunteer roles. And here we are able to accommodate that. That's a change that we. For all of us demand adaption before it can can become appreciation. When the corporate Board of Grand Lodge and the Charities Board started this discussion. It was, how can we better serve our members because it's, it's been a long time coming to ideally not overwork and burn out all of our volunteers. You know, one of the things, uh, one of the tangible examples I can give of exactly what you're talking about, Reid, and I'm gonna get some of the numbers, uh, wrong, but when I first started as a, a dr. Years ago, it was a two page sheet of my duties. I think the most recent Dr. Guide is six seven pages or something like that. And the idea was to try to chisel away for the reasons Reid you just mentioned at that list of responsibilities so that the DRS can focus on their historic and incredibly important role. And, uh, you know, people like us can, can help with the, uh, the administrative, uh, lifting The question gets asked frequently. We could start with membership. Are we growing? Have we solved the membership conundrum yet? And part of what we are doing in our role in working with the lodges on that lodge operations front is to ensure that we are providing our members new and old and existing, a quality experience returning to things like true and authentic. Quality, friendship and brotherhood. A question that we've had amongst us in many discussions in, in talking to friends and non masons, what is our purpose as an organization? What is the point of what we are doing as Freemasons? Well, the, the two answers that, that I've heard most often are, uh, both internal and, and one internal, one external. to have a, a fraternal experience, uh, one that involves, uh, community, the authentic friendships you mentioned and others that has a tie, a history. Um, and, and the long history of, of Freemasonry and those, those greats who have come before us, that's certainly one aspect. But the second one is internal. You know, we could create an environment where that kind of experience could happen, that external experience. But if I go to something and don't feel an internal connection with the men in the lodge, uh, start developing friendships with them, meaningful ones, um, without that internal component, I'm not gonna come back. So. Freemasonry. It is both externally and, and internally, um, important, uh, to me and, and to the people who are members that I know. And I think that's the point of it. It is a something, it is a something to us and we wanna create the best something, uh, we can hear. I'm going to quote. Has been quoted quite often and maybe is a misunderstood Mason in many ways. Manly P Hall. And he wrote something in one of the earliest books that I ever wrote that were written by him, and he said that the Masonic journey, and I have to paraphrase because I can't get it right, but the Masonic journey is one of spiritual unfoldment. Whether or not we want to add the dimension of spirituality into this. Let's leave that aside, but the word unfoldment, I actually had to look it up. English is not my first language, right? Is that, does it even exist? That word unfoldment? Why would you not say unfolding, et cetera, et cetera. But it, it shows the internal dimension of what you just mentioned, Ethan, that there's something that we experience in the largest. That goes back as an answer to your question earlier, what are we doing as masons? We are providing an environment fertile ground that individuals who join the largest and become members of our fraternity become our brothers, become masons. That they can unfold. That the, that their journey becomes one of unfoldment and maybe, hopefully. I am personally convinced that that is one of the reasons that we do this spiritual unfoldment in addition to other spiritual unfoldment that you might experience in your life. And from that comes all the external activities that we as Masons are mostly known for in the community. What it's driven by us changing ourselves, being willing to change ourselves to become selfless. To the extent possible in our lifetime, and that drives the external perception of who we are as Masons. We've heard so many abstract phrases over the years. Well, what do you do as free masons? Well, we make good men better. Mm-hmm. Actually, we don't. We don't make anybody anything, but we do provide, For lack of a better term, a treasure map on how to become a better or improved version of ourselves. But that's on each of us. Some of the most successful lodges I've visited in our state or even around the country. Have the most simple and uncomplicated approach. They plan way ahead. They over-communicate in a, in a good way and take a very balanced approach to that authentic friendship and brotherhood. The personal development, we just alluded to, the education component, learning something new. How can I become that better version of myself in the building of community? That can be both internally and in a surrounding neighborhood is really big right now, and that is a huge ask of our new members. If a lodge doesn't have much or anything of community engagement, that's a huge miss, and that's another part of our mission to help reconnect our lodges. Not only with Minnesota Masonic charities and the endeavors going on there, but in each of our neighborhoods, when, when and where we can. I've gotta say one of the things that surprised me most since I started in this, this role, uh, are the prospects that come from be a freemason.org. Those, those men who are, you know, voluntarily raising their hand and saying, I'm interested in this fraternity. I see time and time again are saying I want to give back to my community. Now, we are not going to provide that on the path we're talking about here. You know, the internal, but if we're not in a community, those guys aren't going to identify us as an organization through which they can give back to that community. So to be outside that lodge is a critical part of, of what we're trying to engender here. Using the resources of Masonic charities and decades of experience, we wanna try to show lodges how, just how critically important it's to get out that door so that you can identify the lodge as a place that people want to come into. And those layers are tethered together. Our membership will grow. When we have in fact, planted the seeds and are cultivating authentic friendships, brotherhood within the lodge, when it's a place to go where we are so happy to see one another, and we are engaging in things of taking an interest in what's going on in each other's lives and how we are engaging our community and that personal development. When that question comes, well, we just need more members. Obviously we want to grow, but we wanna do so in a meaningful way and that will take time as well that this foundation we're a little bit of a reset as we are distilling down the lodge experience to encompass these things in a meaningful, in a tangible way. This expression, membership growth. It can also be understood in two ways, right? We often understand it qualitatively that the number of members in the membership grows, but I have come to appreciate a different perspective of it. When you say membership growth, that the individual member grows and that we actually celebrate that. One of the things that I have found. Fascinating and exciting and really satisfying. In my short, um, admittedly Masonic journey so far is to see brothers that were raised together with me, or shortly before or shortly after have assumed roles in the large, have grown into roles in the large and as members have grown and. My personal observation is that we need to learn and we should celebrate that membership growth more than we do, that we have individual members, that we as an organization are able to shoulder what masonry was 10, 15, 20, 40 years ago, where we were 10,000 more or 20,000 additional masons in Minnesota. We are a fraternity now that is just under eight, 8,000 master masons in the state, and we have members that grow that actually are able to shoulder work in the largest responsibilities, and they show that masonry actually is at work. And once we have that part even better under control, Then the quantitative growth is just around the corner. Marcus, you mentioned a few moments ago that English is not your first language, should have led off with this earlier. Tell us where you were born and your journey in arriving in the US and in ultimately in Minnesota. Maybe I should start with this. I live in Duluth, Minnesota, and I call Duluth, Minnesota home. I've lived there for 16 years now, just shy of 16 years, and that is the longest I've ever lived in once in one spot or in the same spot. I was born and raised in Germany, s in Germany, in the rural district. I left Germany when I was, uh, 20 years old and moved to Denmark. Spent 25 years of my life in Denmark and then moved to, to the us And with a little bit of quick math, you can find out that I am, uh, not pushing 60 yet, but 59. What was the catalyst for you to pursue becoming a Freemason? There are actually two, uh, two reasons. My father's best friend was a Mason. I stood next to him in church and I saw him pray in church in the peculiar manner that we as Masons pray. And I was the little naughty boy, and I looked at him during prayer and confronted him in a couple times and said. Uncle Heinz, why do you have your hands in such an odd manner? And he said to me, Marcus, when you are a little older, I will tell you about that. Unfortunately, he passed, um, a few years later. He passed when I was 13 years old. I was way too young to ever be introduced to Masonry and my father was not amazing. my second dad. I call my father-in-law, my, my second dad because he introduced me to things that a father would introduce, young men to. He taught me hunting, for example, so that's why I call him dad as well. My father-in-law is a mason and has been since 1979 in Duluth, and he introduced me to the Scottish Rite, brought me to events there, and it took me. The better part of three and a half years before I eventually talked to Blue Lodge Masons that were at the Scottish Rite event and, uh, petitioned. So I was a, a prospect for a long time. And your home lodge is Glen Avon in Duluth. That's correct, yes. And I recently chose. To join another lodge, Hector Lodge, 1 58 in, uh, in St. Paul because, uh, I wanted to share my Masonic experience with a couple of my colleagues, Ethan Seaberg. You've been at this microphone prior, but tell us a bit more about, is Red Wing, has it been Red Wing the whole time in life? Marcus's story is much more interesting. I was. Born in Red Wing, raised in Red Wing, and I lived four doors down and across the street from my parents in Red Wing. So yes, Marcus's story is much more interesting than mine. Um, but yes, uh, lived there my entire life. My entire life and found my way to follow your next question about the fraternity. I am here as a result of a 1950s era cover of Life Magazine. A dear friend of mine was a member, uh, of the lodging Can of falls. He was the, uh, solid waste official in Goodyear County. And, uh, as he saw through the recycling stream, uh, that classic copy of Life Magazine, I think every Freemason is familiar with the Grand Masters on the steps of the capitol. He brought that back to his office, was sitting on his desk when I saw it one day, and I said, who are those people? and he's the one that introduced me to the fraternity. So I've got Life magazine to, to thank for this. That particular back issue of Life Magazine is still very popular. It's expensive on eBay. It is such an interesting chronicle of Freemasonry of Scottish and York rights of other concordant bodies. It was so well done. Yeah, I, I remember opening it, you know, at the time and being introduced to the kinds of things you're describing. And then once you join those organizations and having, you know, been talked about, um, you know, tiling lodges and making certain that we keep. Those things had happened inside lodges to ourselves. I went back to that issue of the magazine and it seemed like somebody set up a camera in the middle of a lodge meeting. I mean, they would, you're right. Everything was, was there in the 19, the 1950s. Part of what we strive to do on this podcast is get to know our guests better, and while on one hand you are both well known, you're both traveled and all over the state, but let's throw the random question at you. See where you go with this, Marcus. What holiday does not exist, but should now, coming from Europe, I have to imagine there's holidays for everything. There's way more holidays in Europe than we have here, so I almost would feel bad to introduce the thought of a holiday, just to mention Easter. It's five days off in Denmark. Really? Yeah. And here we get a meager Sunday out of it, right? Five days. What do you do for five days? Is it the full Monday? Thursday is a day off Long. Friday is a day off. Saturday is a day where you can go shopping after two days of shops that have been closed. And uh, Easter Sunday and Eastern Monday are also holidays. Would that be your vote to extend Easter to the five day option? It gives you a very nice start of the late spring, early summer season, and time for reflection and time for, you know, being, being off, being, being there, being present with your family. I, you know, when we, when we look at it from that perspective, I think. I wouldn't really advocate for one particular holiday, but it seems to me hate me if you want, as a European to say that, that the holidays that we have here in the US are rushed. It would be nice to have a holiday that is extended. It doesn't have to be five days, but shoulder days left and right. That would be really nice to get into the spirit of whatever holiday we are celebrating. So rushed. The stores are open, the malls are open. The sale decompressing would be much appreciated. Ethan, you can wipe a minor annoyance or problem off the face of the earth. What do you choose? Left lane sitters. The people who drive 30 miles an hour in the left lane on a four lane road. The hammer lane violator. Holy mackerel. Yes, that and, and I mean, what I should have said was, you know, child hunger, the s scourge of cancer and all the rest. But that was, you said minor annoyance, so that was it. Yeah. And how would you go about that? What, how would we imprison them? Read? Just lock them up. But what about I have my drive safe and save thing in my car. I used to be. 80 miles an hour everywhere. But now I'm older and boring and I have, I literally have the drive and sometimes I get stuck in the hammer lane and I, is it a Midwestern thing? I get nervous. I'm looking in the mirror thinking, oh my God, I gotta get over. This guy's going to be very displeased with me. It could be. I'll come pick you up if you need any doubt all, that's no problem. Alright Marcus, what's something more people should know about history? Why? History can teach us lessons. we usually say about history. If you know history then, or if you do not know history, then you are bound to repeat it. That's not the reason I mention it, The reason I advocate for history is it gives us so much more context for what we know and should know about each other society, the way we live our lives, understand each other, understand the countries that we live in, the cultural sphere that we exist in. Yeah. History. We should know more about history. Ethan, what physical trait does society consider attractive but does not appeal to you? Are you nuts? Uh, let me see. It's the card I pulled out of the deck. I'm sure it is. Physical trait. does not appeal to you. It doesn't appeal to you. Well full, uh, men with full heads of hair, obviously. I mean, that's, that's what, what other answer can I give? Well, this has just gotten very awkward. I'm sitting here with two follicly challenged friends and brothers who are both Now you're both looking at me with that. Look, you got great hair. Reed, the acronym FC stands for football club in Europe and not for follicly challenged. Oh, I want to to say that. Wow. That was the first, uh, random question that turned a little, uh, uncomfortable for a moment. Good successful podcast then. I appreciate both of you being in studio with me today and the work that we are doing together. There's a lot going on behind the scenes that isn't necessarily broadcast, that we have a lot of very exciting endeavors in the works. Uh, the gala we have coming up for charities in September and looking ahead to 2026, we are going to be. Planning and hosting what will be called the M series or Masonic series Galas and one will be in Minneapolis, in the Minneapolis St. Paul area in central, uh, Marcus. You have the clinic gala coming up in August of this summer, which more watch for details on that. And Ethan will be also hosting an M Series gala early in 2026. We, we could go on and on with a busy calendar. This is a great opportunity for us to encourage our listeners to check the Facebook page, check the Instagram Grand Lodge. Please read all of the correspondence coming through Grandview with the e Mason, the Ashler. Lot of events. There's so many. Isn't that ironic? We have so many avenues to communicate electronically, and yet sometimes they just get missed. I'm so grateful you mentioned that because there's a public service announcement that I would love to make and it has everything to do with what you just said about resources. Time and time again, we are asked righteous questions, uh, about lodge administration and operations membership fund development, and it's in grand view, uh, and it's a wonderful resource and. we would be incredibly successful if the first impulse that our members had was to check the resources, uh, in Grand View, because those answers, 90% of the answers, uh, the questions that were being asked are living right there. And if any member has a challenge finding set information in Grandview, contact any one of us and we'll walk you through it. Absolutely. As we move toward the end of our session today, I think, um, I don't wanna speak for all of us, but I think I can, uh, when I thank the craft, uh, thank the craft, thank, thank the Grand Lodge, thank the board corporate Board, and the board of Minnesota Mason Sonic Charities for this opportunity. I never thought that there would become a day when I would be doing this, and it is an absolute privilege and delight, a delight to work with men like you and a delight to be a part of this organization. So, a thank you is, is completely appropriate. I would say ditto to that. We have the greatest job in the world. We get to work on behalf of the craft and to work around our great state. Yes, and we get to do things that are, that are challenging, but we are in an environment where we can also live masonry, right? There are things I'm learning things and I appreciate the fact that the craft offers the opportunity to learn that and actually help, and that we as a, the craft in Minnesota. Actually are not too proud to learn from other jurisdictions where they successfully have deployed this model of full-time, large support to shore up a fraternity that is challenged in numbers, but to make it strong so that it can grow not just individually, but also in numbers. Again, And if any of our brothers have ideas, perspective, feedback, and want to be part of solutions, let's have those conversations. Later this year, we will roll out our regional lodge support teams. We have some big things in the works as far as lodge operations. On the support side, we want to hear from you. None of us claims to have all of the answers. We want to work together and get that feedback, but put things in action. We as Masons, maybe as society, we're so good at talking about things. We talk about it a lot. We wanna execute with purpose on purpose. Ensure we have a bright future, not just a short term satisfaction of minor victories, but an infinite perspective and how we can ensure the craft is healthy for years and years, generations to come. Ethan Seaberg, Marcus Mueller. Thank you both for being here today. Thank you for having us. Thank you, Reid. This has been another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.