Episode 77. The Effort Required (ft. Nate Smithson)

This week we sit down with our pal, Nate Smithson, and unpack the “Masonic experience”: proactive community engagement, the infinite mindset required for long-term success, our obligation, and more. 

“It’s always easy, isn't it…for us to assign somebody else's priorities without understanding what's going on in their life.”

How does one balance being a VP/Risk Manager, family man, and civic leader? Fire up the commodity market ticker, it’s an all new Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries.

Transcript

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Hello again, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Minnesota Masonic, histories and Mysteries. Today's guest was born in Kirksville, Missouri, moved around that state a few times ahead of his family. Later moving to St. James, Minnesota, where he attended and graduated from St. James High School in 1995. It's a year of a reunion. Welcome, Nate Smithson. Thank you. 30 years outta high school. How does that feel? Well, it doesn't really feel like it, that's for sure. What do they always say? You're only as old as you feel. I mean. Maybe still 19, 20. Yeah. At least we, we, we strive for that. Yeah. You attended the University of Minnesota Twin Cities. You were a member of the farmhouse fraternity bachelor's degree in agricultural education and emphasis on adult education. First job outta college with CHS. You started out in the energy business and then moved into oil seed processing in 2006. Moved to Mankato around that time, relocated to New Prague in 2012. So you left CHS, you came to a company called Moving Parts. You do commodity risk management and vegetable oil brokerage. I have so many questions. You know what we do it, uh, to us it just seems like it's just kind of second science, but to a lot of people, they look at it and they're like, wow, that is really fascinating. So, in my time with CHSI was in the, in the oil seed processing business and for those who don't know, we. Crushed soybeans and crushed canola seed and you get vegetable oil and, and uh, animal feed out of that. And so my job was selling vegetable oil and over time I kind of got a little bit tired of the corporate structure and, and just maybe some of us are a little more entrepreneurial minded and, and kind of wanted to try something different. And so in 2017 I left to, uh, join moving parts and, and it's a small business and uh, that I'm now in the purchase of, uh, or process of purchasing that business. And what we do is kind of like you mentioned, it's a commodity risk management. So we basically help, if you think about a bottle of salad dressing on the grocery store shelf doesn't change in price, but all the ingredients going into it, like soybean oil, they vary in price every day. The price market goes up and down. So we help those companies manage that, that price relationship between what they're buying it for and what they're selling it for and, and managing that margin. And then in the vegetable oil brokerage side, we also. Purchase vegetable oil for a lot of large food companies. So we, we buy about three or 4 billion pounds a year of, or, or are involved in touching three or 4 billion pounds a year of vegetable oil. Who would some typical clients be for that? Uh, some of our customers are like Hidden Valley Ranch. they're a big customer of ours. Uh, there's companies that you may or may not have, like Ventura Foods. Uh, they, they make the, uh, Marie's salad dressing, a lot, a lot of the French fried manufacturing companies, restaurant chains, uh, grocery store chains. So, there's so much more behind that product on the shelf than we ever think about. Oh, yeah. And, and, and, In the last six months, um, we've, we've been dealing a lot with tariffs and, and, and how that impacts our customers. We buy a lot of vegetable oil from Canada. And so when there was the whole discussion on was there gonna be tariffs on Canadian products or not, and then off and on, and it creates a lot of uncertainty for the food companies. And so dealing with that and, and how, how we navigate through that whole process. But then also, uh, this whole discussion with, uh, the whole, you know, healthier eating and, and some of that movement and the public perception of seed oils and, and what's healthy, what isn't. And there's a lot of misinformation out there. And, and unfortunately now with social media, you or I could go post something and it goes viral and well this person said this, therefore it's true, it's gospel and with, with no science out there, right? Mm-hmm. And so, um, I'm also, I serve, I'm vice president of, uh, the National Institute of Oil Seed Products. It's an industry association. Um, we probably have four or 500 members, and part of our time is spent on figuring out how do we, have a response to the narrative on some of these kind of things? And how do we help grow the industry? So. Uh, that's been been consuming a lot of time here the last few months. Can you very briefly share what's a misconception about the seed oil versus reality? Uh, one of the misconceptions is this whole notion that when you put a blanket comment around, you know, seed oils are unhealthy and that it just stops right there, there's a broader discussion that needs to happen around, there's a ratio of omega six and Omega-3 fatty acids, and you know, your body needs fat, your body needs a lot of these things, so it, it, it's, you can't just cut it out. And so what does that ratio look like? And then you start looking at certain oils and you say, well, avocado oil looks like the perfect oil. Well it does, but the problem is we make about, I mean, it's a thimbleful compared to what we have available of soybean oil and canola oil and palm oil. So while there are certain oils that olive oil that may be, is more ideal, we just don't make enough of it. So it isn't necessarily. You can use canola oil and soybean oil in a lot of the foods we eat maybe isn't the necessarily the oil, but what are you doing with it? So in other words, if you're frying french fries or onion rings or tater tots and that's your diet, that might be more of the issue necessarily than just are you eating soybean oil or canola oil? So it's, it's all about moderation. And so it isn't necessarily wrong to say some of these things may not be the best for you, but there's a broader discussion around moderation and what are you eating? And you know, if you're ingesting a ridiculous amount of anything is Oh yeah. I mean, it's too much. It's, it's, it's ridiculous. But so, you know, so that's, that's been, uh, consuming a lot of our time the last few months. And speaking of time on top of your career, you are also a member of the York W right? In Farmington, the Rochester Valley of Scottish Rights. You're a member of both Osmond and Zurich Shrine. Hobbies, camping, riding a TV, shotgun sports. I think you mentioned you helped coach the new Prague shotgun Team Scouts. You were raised a master Mason in 2007 at Mankato Lodge. Number 12, served as master in 2011 and 12. District rep 2014 to 17, and again from 2021 to 2024. Now serving the area deputy for the southern area of the state. family, legacy Dad and grandfather were both masons. So much to pack in that married to your wife Robin since 2005. She's a physical therapist. Two kids. Ben 16 and LD 13. Two dogs. I have a serious question. How do you manage all of that? Well, I think that. I think that, that this whole discussion around time is, is a valid one. And, and when you, when you look at the membership of, of the Grand Lodge of Minnesota or just Masonry as a whole today, it all comes down to that. How do you have time to do all these things? And, and to me, part of it has been a decision that I, I love the whole cons. I mean, for me, masonry is about the fraternal piece of it. It's, it's getting to know people like you and, and, you know, our grand grand secretary and, and Clint Christensen, our former area deputy. it's that friendship and that fraternal piece of it. So that's kind of what I, what what I thrive on being a member of the shrine. I love doing the parades and being out there with our, our other nobles interacting with the community. And I feel like we've been given a skillset and talents individually that, uh, by our creator. And it's what you do with those. I think that that is our job. And so if, if, if I just sit at home every night and just watch, you know, watch a baseball game and, you know, have a cocktail and, and don't really do anything with my time, I feel that I'm not being a good steward of the skills that I haven't given or the talents I've been given. So, to do some of these things, even though you look at it on paper, as I was writing that bio for you, I was like, holy cow, that's a lot. Am I, am I making a, a good use of my time? But it's that whole, and I think it's that, you know, what we're taught as a mason too, the whole 24 inch gauge and you divide that time up and for a, for a non mason share what that is, well, dividing our time into, into three equal parts. Eight hours for your job, eight hours for your, you know, rest and relaxation and, and eight hours for, I think, what is it? It's service to service to, yeah. And maybe I'm out of balance in that sometimes my wife might tell you that maybe I spend too much time involved in other things, but it's, it's fun to do and, and it's, um. But I think it's also important though, I think as Masons, when we look at this and we see brothers and we say, well, this guy is the senior warden of his lodge, or he's a master of his lodge and he missed a couple meetings. Or, how come he is not at this pancake breakfast or whatever. Don't criticize him for not being there until you understand why isn't he there. It might be that his kids have a baseball game that he doesn't wanna miss. It might be that, you know, he's involved in something with his church, or it might be. It's just there's other things going on in our lives and it isn't like it was probably 30 or 40 years ago where, you know, it was more the norm for your spouse not to work. Um, you and I talked before about youth sports. I mean, now if you're. Kid plays in baseball or basketball, it's a year-round commitment. It's not just the three months during that baseball season. So there's a lot going on and I think it's, it's important for us to, to at least acknowledge that our membership base has shifted a bit. Yes. And we can't criticize people if, if we don't think they're dividing their time wisely, we may not know what else is pulling on their, their needs. Hmm. It's been said so many different ways that you have enough time to do anything. It just depends on where you decide to devote your time and your energy. when We hear people say in every walk of life, well, I just don't have the time. But where are those priorities? And to your point, when we don't see someone in lodge, it's very crucial to ask the question first. How are you? How's life, what's going on with the family? And not just make that assumption, well, he's not very dedicated. He missed our fundraiser breakfast. Or he abruptly maybe didn't have a chance to alert someone that he's not going to attend a particular event. There's a backstory there, but we're still quick to, to jump on that. It's always easy, isn't it, for us to assign somebody else's priorities without understanding what's going on in their life, right? Yes. I mean, it's, it's, I don't know. It's, it's a dangerous, dangerous assumption to make because like we have a member, of our lodge that he's going through a lot right now in his life. And, but not everybody knows the things that are going on in his life. And so they're quick to point out how come he wasn't here? And it's not my place to necessarily tell them this is what's going on. But, um, you just, you realize that part of being a mason is also that whole notion of, of, you know, giving your brothers some, some assistance if they need it. And, and, and. Hey, how are you doing? What's, what's going on? Support is a word that comes up frequently as members share how much that means to them. To know somebody has my back. I'm balancing and juggling so many different things. The thing you mentioned about kids in sports, we've talked about that on this podcast a lot. It's so different than when we were kids. You played for a season and that was it. You hung up the skates. You baseball was a a summer event and it's a year round crucible. It feels like also what you said about just a few years ago, that time commitments have changed. Frequently, we look back, way back, 70, 80 years and, well, life obviously very different then. But even if we jump back 30 years, we talked about you've been on okay, how to high school for 30 years now. But even in the nineties time commitment for activities, for hobbies, for anything extracurricular, and our jobs we're so connected almost too much. Well, think about it, I mean, 30 years ago, if you left your job at five o'clock and you went home, you, you really didn't have any connection to that until the next morning. Now, like last week, I was in Wisconsin for a week. We went an a TV trip, my wife and I and some, and two other couples had that iPhone in my hand, right? So even though you're away from work and you're supposed to be spending time with your, your family and your friends, it was very, very easy to pull that out and. Start looking at emails. Yeah. And now you're, you're calling customers doing these things? We are, we are tied to our work life now. So much different than it, than it was before. And while the convenience is great, we talk about AI and chat, GPT and technology on this podcast a lot. I had an email from someone saying, well, we can't just go back to the dark ages, Rita. And that's not what I'm advocating, but where do we find the balance? Because once you check that phone once and one e I'm just gonna reply to one email and then you walk off into the corner and your wife and your friends are like, Hey Nate, you, you coming back? And it just, it pulls you in. Yep. That's really difficult. I wish I could see more clearly away. I. That we wouldn't completely go off the grid, but could still maintain the balance of, okay, this is family and friends time. Now this is, you're on vacation. Mm-hmm. But work calls that text chime. Here it comes. Well, because there's that, there's that feeling in your gut that if I don't respond to this now, it's just gonna get worse before I get back. And honestly, what I've found is a lot of your customers, at least in in, in my business, a lot of our customers, if they know you're gonna be on vacation, they don't, they don't want you to respond. They want you to take that time away. Yes. I think we internally feel like, oh, but I have to do this. I have to respond to this. I have to be a part of this. And, and, um, it is a big change. And, and what does that mean? What's it gonna look like, to your point with ai? What's that gonna look like in 10 years, 15 years? So as these young kids that are playing sports year round now that are in seventh, eighth, 12th grade, whatever, as they get older and they become our demographic for joining a fraternity like this, what is that experience gonna look like for them? Yes. And that is the bigger takeaway that AI does a lot for us. Technology, you name it, but the human to human connection, the brotherhood we speak of so frequently cannot be substituted by a computer. Well, you've mentioned a couple times, I heard it at the, uh, Southeast Area Conference last year, and you mentioned at one of the other podcasts earlier, this whole, this replica, this app. Yes. The, the fake friend or whatever, the AI thing that blows my mind to think that there are that many men that said, what was it like one in five or whatever the number was that didn't have a close friend or, yeah, there's a couple things. So the last time I checked the replica app that serves as a virtual friend or sibling had something like over 25 million users. the other point brought up was that I believe the Wall Street Journal did a study. Of men over the age of say, was it 25 if they're not married or in a relationship, said that they have no close friends at all. Zero. Wow. And yet that's not surprising because it's acceptable now to sit in our apartments, to sit at home alone. Netflix is on ordering from Amazon, food can be delivered. and that is something that young people, I'm sure your kids, that's the only world they know, right? Yeah. How, how do we sow the seeds of finding the value in relationships to human, to human connection? It's alarming to me when we see that number of an app, a virtual friend or sibling with millions and millions of users that are probably paying for that too, Which often leads to another conversation within the Masonic framework. People are lonely, they're isolated, they're looking for connection. Here we are in the relationship business of brotherhood, of helping those in need. And I harp on it a lot, brotherhood being authentic, being meaningful, and not just a buzzword. you and I had an interesting conversation over lunch recently about our obligation. Mm-hmm. Tell us more. Well, to me, and, and I guess I've been amazed now for almost 20 years, so it feels like yesterday, but, um, I don't view myself and maybe back up a little bit. I was raised in a lodge that I guess would technically be called outstate, right? Mankato is not part of the metro area, and so your, your experience in that environment is a little bit different because you don't have a lot of nearby lodges to help you do things, right? And so as you come up through the officer line and serving as master, and there's all these things that we're being told that, well, as a, as a, as a perfect lodge, you need to do this, this, and this. You know, there's ritual striving to be right. Ritual is very important. And I'm not saying that, that these things aren't important, but I think that we get in our head that, that this is what makes a mason a mason. But then if you just stop and think about it for a second, it's our obligation. That's what, when we sit there and we take that obligation that I'm gonna help Aidan assist you if you need help. I mean, if, if, if you say, Nate, I need to help here. I need money, I need whatever. It's my job as a master mason to help you, your, your widows, your orphans. You know, and, and, and just that whole notion that that's, that's the, the common bond that we have, it doesn't say in our obligation that, that I, you know, that I promise that I'm gonna be, you know, perfectly proficient on the second degree. Not saying that that isn't something that we should strive for, but when you start looking at, at what we do as Masons, that's really what kind of sets us apart from, from other org is, is that obligation that we take for those things that, that we're gonna do. And, and, um, you know, and I'm not a member of a lot of other organizations. I'm, I'm very involved in scouts. My, my kids are in scouts, so I'm, I'm, I'm a part of that. And you see glimpses of this notion of of, of helping others, right? But that's kind of what we live on. I mean, I think that that was kinda the discussion we had. I. Yes. We want to do our ritual or the foundation of what we do perfectly. We wanna execute it in a meaningful way. we are committed to providing. This blueprint of how to become a better version of ourselves through our ritual to do so well, to make it meaningful and impactful. we strive to do it to perfection. We want to get the words right. We want to make sure that we're not cutting corners and being lazy about how that is presented. Now that said, we're human. We make mistakes. I find it frustrating after a degree has completed that has been very impactful for both new members and existing ones. The the first piece of feedback is to run over and tell the person who delivered it, they missed two words, or they missed statistically an insignificant amount. Are we in a competition for who can recite the words better than the other? Because that would make us a theater troupe, right? Can, can we, can we find a place where the brother that delivered the lecture or that presided on our degree who got 90 to 95% of it, right? Could we at least start with saying, great job in bringing these timeless core values to life and touching the hearts of our members, and then maybe later we'll nitpick about the versus thou. Yeah. I, I, that's always been, and, and within our membership we have, we have a lot of brothers who, who strive, who are driven by different aspects of masonry. We have some of our brothers that, like worship brother Clint Christensen, who I mentioned before, who is our past area deputy in the south. Fantastic Ritualist. I mean, how he can re remember all this stuff just blows me away. Is in Yeah. Him. I mean, I, I, but I, I can't, I, I'm not wired that way. I can't just sit down and, and memorize, say I can't, maybe I don't have the time. Maybe I need to spend more time memory, but it's hard. It's difficult, but it's hard. But I guess the, the point I'm trying to make is lodges can't be perfect at all things. And you might have a lodge that is really, really good at, at community service and, and giving back in the community or really, really good at, at charity, but maybe struggles a little bit on the ritual that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think when you look at this whole notion has been brought up before, I think I've heard it in a couple of the past episodes, um, well, rural, rural lodges. The notion of a rural lodge is that they're gonna struggle. Times have changed. People in outstate areas just don't wanna belong to organizations. There's not as many people to draw from and they're leaving the area that, and they're leaving. Yeah. And therefore. these lodges are just doomed and Okay, I'll give you a little bit of that. I will admit, I grew up in a small town in southwest Minnesota. Things look different. Main Street looks a lot different than it did when I lived there. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that men don't need an experience. And when I was working at CHSI was traveling to North Dakota, uh, like once a month, and I got put in con in contact with Past Grand Master for North Dakota, Tony Kin, who I, you and I talked prior that yes, we have a common connection there. And Tony and, and I and his wife, we would meet probably seven months in a row. We met, had pizza and beer or s But you you were in town from work? When I was in work. Okay. Yep. And, and we'd get together and great experience and, and just loved talking to Tony. And, uh, one of the concepts we started talking about was this whole notion of rural lodges. And I said, well, Tony, I mean, North Dakota is the rule. And for those of you who don't know, I membership at Masonry has been declining. But for some reason, north Dakota's decline wasn't matching what we were seeing here in Minnesota. And it just, so I asked him, I said, Tony, what, what are you guys doing different here? What, what's the secret sauce? And of course there is no secret sauce, but he said, you take a rural lodge in one of these small towns in North Dakota that maybe only has a handful of members left. And it takes two guys to say, you know what, we're gonna try to fix this. And he, so they, they reach out to the Chamber of Commerce and say, Hey, the town celebration that you're having, what do you need for help? What can we do? Uh, maybe they go to the school and say, what do you guys need help with? Do you need help with, you know, some different things. Go to the local scout troop and say, do you need some merit badge counselors? Do you need some guys to help go on camp outs? What do you need? And it's amazing. All of a sudden, people in town start recognizing that the Masons are there to help in the community. One of the things that we've talked about in the past is this notion of we want to get back to where. your civic individuals in the community were members of the lodge, your bankers, your lawyers, your, you know, those people were, those were members in the lodge. Maybe one of the ways for us to kind of fix this is to spin that backwards and maybe the Masons need to become more prominent in the community. And we've seen it in some communities in St. Peter, uh, Nicolette Lodge. Um, and then St. Peter's not a small town, but it's smaller than the metro area. Uh, Nicolette Lodge has established a relationship with the ambassadors in St. Peter. They're kind of like your, your Chamber of Commerce. It's a group of business people and they have a October Fest in September, and they've. They've asked the masons, Hey, will you help us by working the door and taking tickets and helping with security? And, this next week we're working at, uh, we're gonna be selling burgers at John Denver days, or whatever it is in St. Peter. They're having a, a new music festival this, this next weekend. They've recognized Masons as being a group that we can help them achieve their goals. We're not really asking for much. They give us a few bucks to help, but it's more or less us being present. And so I think when you look at that whole notion of our existence in rural areas, us being present, and then through that people start asking questions, well, what, what do you guys do? You know? And, and I love your comment. You know, we're always quick to say we make men better. And I think you said it. A few weeks ago. We don't, we don't make people do anything. We don't make, yeah. There's that line of what do masons do? We make, make, we make good men better. We don't make anyone anything. We are trying to provide the blueprint for how to become and how to make the effort in order to become a better version of ourselves. But this is, you make a great point. Community involvement requires at times us to insert ourselves into a collaborative arrangement with another community group. Mm-hmm. All working together. And then we're right back into the fold. Yeah. Sometimes it takes a first step, not waiting for that group to come to us, but who should we be collaborating with? City Council, chamber of Commerce, another civic group with schools, scouting organizations. I mean, scouts. Look at scouts. I mean, it's here you have a group of, of young people that a lot of what they are doing mirrors to a certain degree, some, some of what Masonry is about. So why not align ourselves with them and, and to see if they need help? how many parent adults are volunteering with those organizations that might see some of what we're doing and, and recognize and say, man, that we have a a, a Brother Master Mason, a new Prague that was very, very involved in scouting. And he said, what's this Freemason thing you always are talking about? And he ended up joining and now he's, he's an active member of, of the lodge and Savage. So there it is. Yeah. I mean, it's, it, it does come full circle, but you have to, you have to, like you said, you have to take that first step and insert yourself. People aren't gonna insert it for you. and I think that's part of, You mentioned before, the notion that we don't make anybody anything. We give them the tools to become better. And I think Grand Lodge in Minnesota now has given outstate, lodges the tools to improve themselves through this new structure of having the regional directors like yourself and Marcus and, and Ethan. just because prior, I can tell you from being a master of a rural lodge, being a DR for rural lodges and now being an area deputy for the southern region or southern area, um. Lodges need help, but it's very difficult because they don't know what to do next. I mean, it's, if, if you're sitting there and you're master of a lodge and you have routinely four or five guys that show up and you have 20 members, you're sitting looking around saying, what do I do? And I think by us changing the structure and having these regional directors, we're suddenly now we're gonna have tools available for these lodges at a more regional level to get in there with them and figure out how to, how to improve this. I think it's, it's gonna, from my perspective, having been at Dr and now, now an area deputy, it's gonna give these lodges the, the tools that they need to at least, you know, they're gonna have to take the step to want to implement'em. Yes. This isn't gonna be the, the magic bullet, you know? You mean you can't do all the work. We can't do all the work. I'm, I'm kidding, right. Yeah. It is gonna require the lodge to say, we're committing to this, we're willing to do the work we focus on the infinite perspective of progressing slowly, celebrating the small victories, and looking at this in a long-term perspective, sky's the limit. Why do, why do we always have this feeling that if we try something and if it wasn't a huge smashing success, that it's like, well, we're not gonna do that again. Can never do that again. No, we got, I mean, put it on the scrap heat. Yeah. Try it a few times and see if it works. And even if it's a small success, it's still something, right? It's still, you're still out in the community, you're, or you're still, giving money to this event or, or whatever it might mean. Not everything can be a home run. Some of the home runs that we witness within our fraternity are lodges that started fundraiser events at a picnic table many years ago. Mm-hmm. And they just, each year just grow a little bit more and a little bit more. And yes, we all want that successful event, and the patience involved. We talked about that in a recent episode of patience is it's tough in this virtual world where we can get an answer to anything or something delivered it. It's, it's instantaneous. It's tough to find the balance between Okay, there, there's that. But then the patience of growing individually, working together, collaborating, doing things within the community that require a lot of conversations. And at times, yes, it can be a lot of work, but it's so worth it every time. But you have a team that wins the World Series, well, they're not just gonna come back next year and win the World Series again. Again, unless you're the Yankees, maybe. Yeah. But, but if you're a lodge that is successful and having a successful event, you gotta keep putting in the effort to keep that fresh and, you know, and, and to keep it successful because people rotate through. You have different volunteers and, it, it, it isn't easy to keep things going. So I think it's, you people have to realize that the effort has to keep happening. I keep going back to the point you made about community involvement, identifying other groups within, in, in this case, in some rural lodges, who we can work with and help make an event successful together as we collaborate, that's where the conversations begin. Like you just mentioned, you, you, you're a Freemason. What's that all about? Instead of just going out and blindly saying, well, we just need more members. There's a certain amount of easing into this building. The we, we are in the relationship business. We are the original social network. But think about that though. If you have 10 people that show up, 10 men that show up at the lodge door and say, I wanna become a Freemason. They came there for a reason, but understanding why did you, what, what drew you to us? What is it that you want to get out of this? Because I think sometimes it's also a, if you don't give people what it is that they want, they're gonna become disengaged. You know, we talk about deitz and, and declining membership Uh, I think we don't very often get a deit from a brother who's actively en lodge and say, wow, that's a surprise. It's we're getting a deit. And then sometimes you have to go back and look and say, well, who, who was this? Do you remember this guy? Yeah. And, and so sometimes declining membership, we need to be careful and not look at that as a, as a failure. But it's maybe more just a rationalization of what reality is. Right? When we had 43,000 masons back in the sixties or whatever that high point was, forties, fifties, whatever, after World War ii, a lot of those men came back from the war and joined Freemasonry. Maybe not because. They wanted the free, the Freemason experience, it was more or less they needed to have that, that brotherhood bond after the war. you know, and, and, and so it's, things have changed since then. But are, are we giving them what they want? But then also too, we can't have hold ourselves to a level of expectation that we're gonna get back to 20,000 members because that's, that's not real. It's a different world. Now, in that early 20th century aspect, we hear that quite a bit. Well, everybody was a joiner back then, but it really wasn't that simple. I bet you if you went back in a time machine and you interviewed a master of, you know, a lodge in the 19, 19 25, 19 25. Okay. And you asked, what are the biggest issues you're dealing with today? I bet, I bet a lot of the issues they're dealing with probably wouldn't look a whole lot different. I. Than what we're talking about today. In fact, they had more members. Maybe they, they probably had more issues to deal with. Mm-hmm. why do we always look back historically and look at things in the past and say, oh, things were perfect then, you know, we were both born in the seventies, right? Yes. We look back at the eighties and we say, man, that was just a perfect time, wasn't it? The eighties were just, I bet you the eighties weren't as great as we think they were, but because we were young, we didn't, we didn't know any different MTV and Oh yeah. Summer activities and barely, but that's true. But maybe it's because we equate and we think about a concert that's sold out versus a concert that's half full in the venue. Right. We latch that thought process on. Well, if the lodge isn't brimming with members to the rafters, we. Are we failing? Are we not doing good enough and we, you can have a meaningful lodge experience with a dozen members. Sure. Wouldn't it be great to see 50, a hundred members in attendance Ask Grand Master, Donald Seaverson said recently when he was grand circa 1979. 1980. Yeah. We had more members then, but we also had a lot of problems as well. It's funny you mention that about going back in a time machine as a lodge recently that was embarking on the scanning project mm-hmm. To take some of their archives and preserve them. We're reading some of the minutes and did in fact find exactly what you described. A lot of the, if there was an issue, something slightly escalated. very much mirrored today. Yep. we just would, would never assume that though. How do you feel about that notion of a quality lodge experience can be had with a smaller group of members? I've witnessed it. I've seen it in, in, in play. I mean, you, you don't have to have a lodge of 150. Well, Mankato, for example, uh, where I was master, I'm a member today. We absorbed another lodge, Bethel Lodge in Lake Crystal, and our membership grew. So now we're at 150 members. Is that experience any different today with 150 members than it was that when, when we had 95? No. you see other lodges that maybe they have 20 active members, but they're, they're active and they're able to, to, to do the things that need to be done. Just because you have more people that are on your membership list, sending in dues doesn't mean that you're a better lodge. Right. It's, it's those members that are active and, and giving people what they want. So, I mean, it's, it's not a, a notion of more is necessarily better, but it's, it's the, I don't wanna say quality, but it, it, maybe it is the quality, quality experience. It's the quality of the experience, what are you doing and are people finding a value in, in that? I'm a member of a lodge in Missouri, small town of about 1500 people. Where? La Plata, Missouri. my grandfather's lodge. and it's, it's a whole different experience than what we have up here. But here's a lodge that maybe has 35, 40 members. They're not, you know, great at Ritual. They aren't bringing in lots of new members, but they're active in the community and they're helping each other out. So I think to your question, do you have to be a big lodge to be, uh, successful? I, I don't think so. We've seen a change with the younger men seeking to learn about Freemason Ry and possibly join that are in fact looking for an experience. we get asked all the time, what is Freemason Ry? What do you, what do you guys stand for? Authentic friendship, personal development and building community. Our new members especially have an expectation that at least two of those three will be executed quite well. So when we have a large situation that's become lazy, apathetic may be inventing excuses to avoid what they need to do in latching onto another community group, getting out there and getting involved. I've used the analogy time and again, would you continue going to your church? I. If it wasn't feeding you, if it was just nothing going on, you would likely be less inclined to tithe to your house of worship. Mm-hmm. You look at those massive megachurches, and this isn't about any particular religion, it's just the concept of a megachurch that fills a 15,000 seat venue. Why is that full? Because the people that are going are willing to battle the traffic to get up and Dr to go there, but they're getting something out of it. They're getting something out of it. Yes. In their heart, they're getting fed something that's helping them in their lives. We have that opportunity to provide our members with that blueprint how to make oneself better. For me personally, I look at where we are today. I have such an optimistic view of the future of Freemasonry, maybe compared to what some of our other members, you know, they look at and they're like, oh, well we lost another, however many members last year. Yeah. I don't want to see us lose members. Right. I mean, that's, that's awful. But at the same time, when you look at where we are today with the life that we live and, and where we're positioned, we are absolutely setting ourselves up for success, for giving men something that they're gonna need in their lives. We just need to find that way to help a communicate that this is who we are. Right. And also following through on that, I mean, the work Now, 15 years ago, we didn't talk about our, contribution and the partnership that we have with the University of Minnesota. Right. People would see the Shriners and they'd say, oh, you're the, you're the Shrine Hospital people with the little kids, and you give the care. Yep. The Freemasons, what do you, what do you guys do? We didn't, we didn't talk about what we do publicly because that just wasn't what we, you know, we don't talk about those things. We humbled to a fault. Yeah. But now that we're, we're more public about it and we're talking about it, and Masonic Charities is, is really getting out there and, and publicizing this. to me that, that sets the stage for us now. Oh, you're the Freemasons. You're, you're helping with the Masonic Children's Hospital. You're helping with, you have the scholarships. I heard the, heard that commercial about the Southwest Scholar. I mean, people know who we are. We aren't a mystery anymore. You know, they always view us as, oh, you guys are the ones that meet upstairs and you got the curtains all pulled and what are you doing up there? So mysterious. Oh yeah, yeah. We're not myster. Well, we maybe we're still mysterious a little bit, but. The mystery has kind of gone away a little bit about what is it you guys are about? In a good way. In a good way. We still have the secrets of masonry, but masonry shouldn't be a secret. Right. And I think we're, we're fixing that a little bit. And you know, I had a, I had a friend of mine that that texted me. He was going to the event you had here, was it a couple weeks ago? Yeah. By the time of recording we had a Meet the Freemasons event at the end of May. Yep. buddy of mine from college, and he knew I was a Freemason, but we'd never really talked about it. And he texted me and hadn't talked to him for a while and he says, Hey, are you a Freemason? And he ended up coming to that event. And, and again, it's something that probably where he's at right now in his life is, is this would be a good fit. But it's, it's, it's recognizable that, that name Freemason isn't something that's creepy. We're actively seeking to make that synonymous with building community. Embracing timeless core values. we live in a world that is craving all of the things that we stand for and have stood for for hundreds of years. Religious tolerance. We strive to be apolitical. what's important. What are we doing with our time while we're here? you had to pick one thing that has been your favorite aspect of being a Freemason, what is it? Hmm. I mean, I could take the easy way out and I could say, oh, it's the great people I've met and you know, the places I've traveled and all that. But while those things are all true, I think for me personally, the one thing that I've taken away from this is perspective. Meaning I joined the lodge when I was 28 years old, and you're sitting there in a lodge room and you're surrounded by people in their forties, fifties. At that time there was a few World War II vets sitting on the sideline. And when you're 28, even someone in their forties looks a little, seems a, oh, are you kidding? Oh yeah, it's old. And, but when you sit there and you realize, you know, Oliver Mulford was the one of the guys in the sideline of Mankato. And at first you're like, oh, that guy's kind of grumpy. But when you get to know him and you're talking to him, it's like he is no different than me. He just has more miles on him. And that perspective, not just in age, but just in backgrounds, has completely changed my mind. Not just in Masonry, but also when it comes to if I'm involved with scouting or in my personal work experience, don't judge first of all people by their appearance, but also understanding that everybody comes from a different background and, and they all want the same basic things in life. Right. And, and so that's been the one thing for me, I guess we always talk about subduing our passions, right? And, and kind of, for me, has been just to kind of, I. Pull myself back a little bit and take time as you're looking at the situation or, and, and a little bit is maybe my own natural tendency is to get, if you're in a work environment or whatever, and, and not lose your temper, but just get excited about something and be very passionate about your response. I've really learned that. Look, just slow down, calm down, take a minute. Practice the pause. We don't, yeah. why be so quick to jump on something? I still have work to do on that, but I'm getting better. Um, for me, that's what freemasonry I, I would say my big takeaway has been, I don't want to forget to say thank you for all that you do as an area deputy, for the southern part of the state and the involvement that you have. I, I could list it all and I, I won't go into the great detail, but I too am excited about our future is we distill down the member experience, not just for the new guys, but for the existing members. It's easy to fall into patterns and it's even easier to not make tough decisions when the time comes, but with the collaboration of all of these resources and as we roll out the regional lodge support teams later this year, I, I'm, I'm really pumped. Well, yeah, and, and I think it's, it's worth noting though that, again, like you said, this isn't gonna be a, a, a silver bullet, right? We're not gonna, can't flip a switch. No, we can't flip a switch, but we're setting the, the, the stage here for what I feel like is, is a fantastic opportunity and I would not have agreed to be area deputy. If I didn't think that the right people are at the table now for us to make a difference, because I'm as critical as probably a lot of us in that, look, I'm, to your point earlier, I have a lot of places to spend my time, right? And, and as much as I love free masonry, if, if I say, okay, I'm going to devote some more time to this, I wanna make sure it's, it's meaningful. And so that's why I agreed to do this, because I feel like we can make a difference. I mean, it's easy for us to sit back and, and, and see the, those things within our organization that are, I don't wanna say the trouble spots, but just the negative, right? You have lodges that aren't meeting a quorum, or you have, just all whatever these things are, or just the latent malcontent, right? But instead of letting that consume our time. The understanding that, look, we can fix some of these. And we have to, we have to acknowledge and say, some of these, we're just not gonna win these battles, right? We're, we're gonna have some of these situations where we're gonna have to make some tough decisions to your point, but looking at it down the road, as long as we have our eye on this is what we want it to look like in the future, and we're gonna defend this going forward, there's, there's a bright future here for us. And I, and I, I drew, I really, truly do feel that way. I was asked recently, how, how do you maintain a healthy culture in a hierarchical arrangement? And I had to stop and think about that for a second. You used the pause. Well, that was, that was a long, long discussion. But one of the ways in which that happens is with. Selfless servant leaders like you, There are so many, too many to be called out specifically right now, it's our brothers and their spouses and their families who see the value in what we're doing as an organization and want to ensure its healthy future for generations to come. It's not just about the right now. You touched on this a moment ago. It's that infinite perspective of seeing our organization evolve and maintain its health and strength. Well, and that's a very important thing to touch on and to call out is we talk about dividing our time. You know, and as a member of a lodge, your, the desire by the master or by the membership is that you're gonna make regular attendance or lodge meetings. So that's one, one or two meetings a month, right? We ask somebody to be a district representative. Now, it's not just going to your own lodge one or two times a month, but now if you have three or four lodges that you're a DR for, you're going to their lodge meetings and their pancake breakfasts and you're doing this award ceremony, award ceremonies, you're submitting reports to the Grand Lodge. You know, and likewise, if you're an area deputy, it's, it's this other ask. So I think those, those volunteer leaders we have in our organization, it's very, very important that we remember that they're volunteers and that they're not, it, it's easy to be critical and it's easy, I think, sometimes to, to ask a lot of them. And that's another reason why I think the work that, that you and Ethan and Marcus are doing is not just. Very needed. But I think it's, it's, it's, to me, it's very exciting because we're gonna remove some of those things from the drs. I mean, I'll be honest, the reason I stepped down as a district rep was I started looking at the job duties and I said, look, I don't have time to do all of this to be a dad, to be a business owner, to be involved in my church and scouts. I, something has to go. And unfortunately, I looked at, I'd been at DR for three years, and then I was off, and then three years again. And I said, I can't keep doing this if I can't do it to the level that I think it needs to be done. And so I stepped away for a while and I was asked to come back as an area deputy. But when I see these changes that are taking place to me, this is, this is setting the stage for some great things to come. We're acknowledging that we can't ask people to just keep doing, doing, doing. So. It's a great point. And in our roles as regional directors, the goal is to lessen the burden of our district reps, our area deputies. Take a few things off your plate. I'm quite sure Ethan is already sick of hearing from me. Well, no, that's good. We, the phones have been, we have been very busy and a lot of things behind the scenes that are offline that helping with resources. We are office staff. Nobody reports to us. We, we work for you Well. Right. And, and I don't think that, that if you're a master of a lodge or a warden, if you're an officer of a lodge, I don't think you realize I didn't, when I was lodge officer kinda lived in our own little world down there. You don't realize how much goes on from a volunteer standpoint behind the scenes to kind of keep this whole thing moving, you know? And, and so the fact that we added three staff positions, it's a little bit shocking. We didn't have these. 15 years ago, because it's just a lot of ask to keep this thing afloat and to keep, to keep these lodges running. Well, in those 15 years, we definitely took an example from other jurisdictions that have a similar setup and had many anecdotes of success and of collaboration and it, it just, it made so much sense. It was definitely time. Speaking of time, your busy schedule, big picture, what do you enjoy doing that you don't get to do often? Hmm. Well, there's so many things I could pick from there. Um, I would say for me, one of the things that I've, I've enjoyed doing over the years is, is golfing. And I mean, now I'll golf three times a year at industry events or, you know, customer functions. I. And, and when I say golf, it isn't going out. Sitting in a golf cart and driving around 18 holes quickly. Get a pole cart, go out and walk nine or 18 holes by yourself. And just that time to enjoy the game, but also to just to think. Right? And, and, and that, that time of just decompressing on my own, not having that, but someday I see it as on, on the horizon. It's, it's coming, it's out there. What's the most difficult thing you've ever done? Well, that's an interesting one. You know, there's, there's those things in. In your career that you look at and you say, boy, that was a, that was a tough lift. Or you look at from a personal standpoint, things that you've done. Um, I think for me, the most difficult thing, just from an emotional and stress standpoint was, you when you look at your family and you start to making decisions on, you know, I worked for CHS, they were a, you know, fortune 100 company. The paycheck comes in the mail every two weeks. You know, not, I mean, you, you still had work to do, but there was that safety net, the idea of walking away from that life and going to work for a small company where it's very much eat what you kill, right? I mean, it's revenue comes in. That's where your compensation comes from. While there is an allure to that, there's also a huge fear level of, am I putting my family in jeopardy? You know, are, is, is this gonna all work out? A lot of lost sleep over that. But also there was the, suppose a little bit of the, the faith in knowing that, okay, if, if this opportunity is here and I had the skills to do this, it's, it's gonna work out. And you just say, you know what, I'm gonna take this leap here. And, and, and it all worked out. I mean, it's, it's been great. I've, I've really enjoyed it, but it was, it was probably, you know, and I'm sure there's probably other things in my life that were more difficult, physically challenging or, you know, mentally, but from an emotional standpoint of just fear that, that probably was one of the biggest ones because I, I knew prior to making that decision that the, who I was when I came home at night and the stress that I brought home with me, I was taking it out on my, you know, not physically, but just taking it out, being short with my wife and my kids and downloading your day, right. You know, you go to bed at night and you lay there and you're thinking about, you know. This whole corporate struck, and I apologize for those of you who work in corporate America and you just love that environment. I can't believe it, but just, I apologize if this is offending you, but um, I'm sure they're saying preach on brother. Oh yeah. But this whole notion of having meetings to schedule another meeting, oh God. And you're sitting in meetings all day long and, and it's like, what are we getting done here? And, and, um, it was, I could tell that it was, I was not gonna probably be in a good place if I stayed there. But, so don't you love the, let's have another meeting in the future to cover all the things that we didn't cover today, which basically is like corporate success theater. There are people in corporate America that their job is to perpetuate the corporate structures. So, so they have a job. I mean, it's, you know, how many corporate buzzwords can you throw in there? And the, the movie office space, I mean, you go back and watch it. Timeless. Classic. It's, it is so true. Yeah. It, uh, I, I watched it again here a few weeks ago and just had to laugh because it's, I'm sure when it came out, people looked at it and said, that was a stupid movie. Yeah. But, but now it's, it, there's so much truth to it. It's the, well, you see Bob's, I got three bosses. What do you actually do here? Okay. I won't go down that. But the, the yes. But corporate America for leaders that don't appreciate that meeting for meeting for another meeting is glorified party planning. Yeah. This meeting could have been an email. just real quick as we get close to kinda wind things up here, thank you for what you've done with this podcast. I mean, I, uh, have some drive time back and forth to work, and I like the fact that, you know, they're not two and a half hours long, but I've learned so much about Freemasonry, but also about my fellow Freemasons. There's guys that you've, you've interviewed that I know well and I learned stuff and I'm like, I didn't know that about you. And I, I, when I go to lodges, I, I tell'em, Hey, you need to take a listen to this because it's, you're gonna learn something. You're not gonna say, boy, that was 30 minutes. I wish I never would've wasted. Oh, thank goodness. But, um, but there's some great, you know, lodge education topics that have come out of this and different things. So thank you for taking your time to do this. Um, it's, I've learned a lot. I appreciate that and it's my pleasure. This is a really fun aspect of the role. This is probably my favorite part of the week that we get to interview members like you and others that you've mentioned, that you think you know someone, maybe you've been in that contact with someone for 10 years, but then you really peel back a few more layers of their life story, where they've been, their hobbies, their life experience, and it's just been such a pleasure to do this and share a little more of who that brother is behind the. Behind the apron. That's right. It's not the well, and let's be honest, a former radio guy, you get to, you get to sit here and play. Well play radio. That's true. I do. This is the part of the radio industry that I do miss, but it is not a time to be in terrestrial radio. That is for sure. That's for sure. Yeah. Nate Smithson. Thank you for all that you do. It is not lost on me. You have an incredibly busy schedule for taking the time to be with us in studio today. Thank you, Reed. And this has been another episode of Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries.