Episode 102: Shared Purpose (ft. Derrick Fountain)

Grab your fedora – here comes a true sartorialist. Derrick Fountain outlines the power of personalized connection, managing change, and accountability of lodge officers. Creating a lodge calendar requires some strategy, but what does that look like? 

Hear about “recruit, reclaim, retain” at Nicollet Lodge No. 54 (St. Peter), and the importance of finding occasional stillness and silence in our busy lives. 

“What advice would you give an incoming Master who’s about to occupy the East?” It’s Minnesota Masonic Histories & Mysteries. 

Transcript

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Today we are joined by Derek Fountain in studio. Derek is a product and innovation leader who runs Fuser, a marketplace startup that partnered with Nika. Nika is a professional association of electrical contractors to connect electrification and EV charging projects with qualified electrical contractors across the country. He leads product strategy, customer development, partnerships and operations. Essentially every aspect of the business. His career has taken him around the world. Having spent a decade in scaling global product and innovation teams across Qatar, Turkey, and Iraq. He returned to the US five years ago to focus on new startup ventures. Derek, welcome. Thanks for having me on Reid. You were first initiated into Freemasonry 26 years ago under the most worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Texas. At the age of 19, you dove into the York Rite Scottish Rites shrine. You progressed quickly and burned out just as fast in your words. After spending more than a decade living abroad, you reconnected with a fraternity. When you returned to the US in 2020, currently serving as Worshipful Master of Nicolette Lodge, number 54 in St. Peter, a 100 60-year-old Lodge, deeply rooted in service and community impact. That is quite a whirlwind over the past few years. Is it a cliche to refer to you as a Renaissance man? Do you get that? A lot, some say so. I, I consider myself just passionately curious about a wide range of topics and, and aspects of life. I'd like to hear a little bit more about your year in the East this year. I know it's winding down quickly. Someone sent me a quote recently that said. We have sky high expectations and yet serious reluctance to work at it. Sometimes that's a, a difficult needle to thread, but what areas did you focus on going into your year? I laid out a vision for the year and I wrote and sent letters to all of the members of the lodge to communicate that vision. And so I set some goals for the year with three key areas of focus, recruit, reclaim, retain. I spelled that out in a letter to the lodge. And that was kind of my, my big goal was either we're gonna be more visible in the community and attract new members, and grow that way. Or we can try to bring brothers back into the fold that may have fallen by the wayside or somehow became disinterested in coming to the lodge. Um, recruit, reclaim, and, and then, and then retain. And so for the younger members and brothers that are currently making that trip out to the lodge twice a month, let's make sure we give them something worth continuing to come to the lodge again and again for, and how did that go? As you reflect on the year that's been, so we haven't been able to bring in new members this year. We haven't done degree work, but we have been able to bring brothers back into the fold. And one of the big initiatives I did was, um, an award ceremony that recognized lower years of service that we typically don't recognize. And so acknowledging a brother for completing, for being a member for five years, 10 years, 15 years, all the way up to 75 years. And so that helped us get brothers back into the lodge that hadn't set foot in the lodge for quite some time. And then continuing to do events like that to engage those brothers and, and try to get them to come back. And so that reclaim and retain is something that we have been making good strides on. Sounds like a great starting point. I would imagine that a five year or 10 year Mason felt a sense of pride coming in to be acknowledged as such. You're right. We typically, obviously acknowledge that 50 year members of those really big milestones, but. Five years or 10 years or 15. That's, that's significant too. Right. And, and the other thing that, that, um, allowed us to do is just to reach out and communicate. And so we hadn't been in touch with some of those brothers. We send them letters, we send'em a communications. but no one had picked up the phone to just call these brothers in a long time. And so I set up a committee, um, to do outbound calls to these brothers and personally invite them. You're gonna be recognized at the award ceremony. it would be great to have you out. And some brothers gave feedback that they're used to seeing the postcards, they get the mailers in the mail, but it didn't really move them to come out to the lodge if they hadn't come in in a long time. But that phone call really moved the needle for them and really made a difference. It's amazing how much we overlook. The power of personalizing something, of calling on the phone, making a connection beyond just the electronic or regular mail Yeah. And so one thing that I typically do, um, is I try to lead by example. So if I say, this is what we're gonna do, we're gonna move in this direction. I will start moving. And so with that calling committee, I made some of the first calls. And one of those calls was to the brother that we were recognizing for 75 years of membership Ed, weather Road, um, who recently passed away. but we were recognizing him and I was able to speak to him on the phone. and he was just so delighted to, to hear from me and to hear from the lodge. And he felt that he wasn't deserving of such a, an honor because he wasn't physically visiting a lodge. He was living in Alexandria. We were in St. Peter. Um, but he was a, a, a lifetime member. But he reassured me, he says, I live every day. As a mason, as a, as a masonic, you know, applying all the Masonic principles to everything that I do in my life, in my day to day. And that was something he really wanted to communicate to me in the phone call when I spoke to him. And so we were able to mail him his 75 year, um, certificate in pen. And, and I heard from his family that he went around the house showing it to everyone. It's great. Um, he, he rode his bicycle, um, to the community picnic, you know, about a week before he passed away. And, and it's good to know that he did receive that recognition and, and he was aware that the lodge was thinking of him. A 75 year member. How old was he? I think he was 96. I believe he was 96. 96 when he passed. And still out on his bicycle at that age. Yeah. Yeah. Showing members of the community. Hey, check this out. Yeah, he was in the, he was in the local newspaper and at Alexandria for, he was doing furniture repair. he was so excited about this project and I was asking him, how are you doing all of this? And he just says, I feel blessed and I'm able to do all these things. He insisted on actually driving from Alexandria to St. Peter for the award ceremony. and I really question, are you sure you are gonna drive? Because we can make a trip up to you and deliver it to you, present it to you at the local lodge there. But he insisted on driving and then unfortunately he came down with pneumonia and, and he wasn't able to make it up. And he just said, give the brothers my regards and my, thank them so much for the honor, but he couldn't physically make it out. But that entire award ceremony that we did was really based around his dates that he gave me for when he could drive down to St. Peter. how special. And although it's sad that he passed away, that you made that connection. You had conversations with him, the family reached out, knowing how proud he was what a tremendous story. The power of what if you, do you ever think about that? What if we hadn't picked up the phone and made a call? Yeah, I mean, it, it even, so I think that's something that we can improve on is, is some of those communications. because we received notice of his passing really late and didn't have time to really organize. We couldn't get in touch with the family at the time. Um, I was calling his phone that I had, I sent text messages. He had an email account. I sent emails. We were trying to find out, um, and get an understanding of being able to do a masonic. Funeral service for him. And we were contacted somehow through a lodge in Brainerd, and there was some miscommunications where we couldn't track down a, a working phone number. I was doing online research calling random people that were associated with him, trying to get in touch. Um, but at the end of the day, we, we were not able to do a Masonic service for him. But I did drive up to Minneapolis and attended his funeral, And when I was there, you know, folks were looking around like, who is this guy? Wow. Who's, who's this guy? And so someone came out, how, how do you know our granddad? And, and I told them I was a member. Member of the Masonic Lodge in St. Peter, uh, where he was a member for 75 years, and they said, we knew it. We, we were saying, he's a mason. He's a mason. That's why he's here. Um, and so they were really happy that I was there and, um, just apologize for the communication breakdowns. And, um, but I told them that we do a lodge of sorrow at the end of the year. Um, the family is welcome to come in to that. Uh, we, we'll, we'll remember him at that time, um, but they were saying that there's no family in that St. Peter area anymore. And so, um, wouldn't really make sense. I think they're, uh, up in Brainerd and, and, and Alexandria. I want to go back to your focus going into your year on reaching out to your existing members, brothers that haven't been around in a little while, making that meaningful connection, inviting them to come back. Sometimes it feels like we get so caught up in just, we just need to find more new members. We need to reach out and do a, an awareness campaign and think new, new and young and et cetera. But your approach, instead of going that direction first was, it basically sounds like let's get our own house in order first. we certainly will have opportunities to bring in new members, but where have our existing guys gone and how can we connect with them in a meaningful way? Yeah. And so one of the things I wanted to do was how do we do that at scale and how do we do that in a way that I. That the future leadership of the lodge can benefit from. And so part of that was the old school outbound phone calls, but then also using technology. And so one of the things I did was revamped all the digital presence for the lodge. And so we started with, an outbound email list where we can send out email communications and not just rely on snail mail. Um, we have a text message group that, you know, we use often for planning and coordination. those types of things were helpful reaching out to existing members in our lodge, we have a past master's wall and, and even though we've seen that wall so many times, every time we have at least three or more past masters in the room. They all, everyone huddles around that wall and we hear stories about these past masters, these past masters, oh, he was such a good ritualist and, and we hear these stories, but I haven't personally seen a lot of those brothers in the lodge. They're in the community, but they're not physically visiting. And so that's been a big push that I've tried to make is getting more of those brothers that were once active once poured their heart into the lodge to try to get them to come back into the fold. Um, sometime it's worked a bit, but there are some that are still, you can't bring them in. But I've been trying to entice them just making them aware of all the things that we're doing as a lodge and, and, and in the community and in the PR is also kind of a way to try to, I guess, indirectly have their family members see, wow, did you hear what Nicolette Lodge was doing? Did you hear you should go back? And so it's kind of an indirect way to influence and try to. Put some pressure on them to come back into the fold. Yeah. Healthy pressure. Healthy pressure. Yep. that healthy pressure could be a way, I'm bringing some pride back of saying, Hey, I'm a member of that lodge and maybe someone hasn't been around for a little while, but that's a great motivator. Your hundred 60th anniversary. You did a table lodge recently I'm also glad to hear that you, you obviously didn't just rely on making a phone call to someone. There was that personal touch. Yes. Which was super important and crucial. But you also used emails and text groups and, and other ways to ensure that. How hard, it's so difficult these days with all of these different means of communication. some people don't touch or don't use some, they don't read their email, they miss the text message. We really do need a well-balanced approach to our communications internally. And you're doing that. Yeah. And, and another thing I did was I built out my Masonic calendar for the year, which is very ambitious. You know, you build out this calendar and you plan to do all these things and then you ask the past masters how much of that, typically gets done and they're like, you'll be lucky to get 50% of it, you know? But what I did was that, that calendar for the year, I categorized things into, and this is part of this, I got some inspiration from, Tyler, the master of Lake Harriet. Oh, Tyler Mul. Leica, yeah. Yep. So he and I kind of exchanged, um. Calendars and I said, Hey, how are you putting yours together? Here's what I'm thinking and let you know. Let me see if I can borrow some ideas from you. And he can borrow some ideas from my calendar. And we were kind of collaborating on some things and he sent me some ideas and I built out my calendar for the year and printed them on 11 by 17, paper and brought them into the lodge. So all the members had these giant calendars, um, for the year. The good thing about that is that everyone knew what was happening and they had these masonic um, calendars for the lodge. The, the bad thing about that is that some of them hung those on their FRI refrigerators. And so if I'm busy doing crazy work stuff and I forget that we have a park cleanup today,'cause I didn't send on any, if I don't send on any communications, but brothers are looking at this calendar mm-hmm. That they have and saying, Hey, are you coming to the park cleanup? And I am like. I didn't realize it was today. Uh oh. So I'm scrambling out of the house, but they're holding that calendar. Hey, we have this event coming up. And so it, it's, it's good to see that that works. And if you do give them that guide for the year one, I mean, you mentioned at the beginning how do you, you know, you, you set these ambitious plans, but then people are not motivated to see them through. You have a whole craft now holding you accountable to make these events happen and they're there willing to support you in making those events happen because you've communicated that in advance. And you sent that calendar out well ahead of your installation. Correct. Was that about a year ago right now, or late last year. So I started it towards the end of the year, started building it out. And that was something else where there wasn't a lot of direction on the calendar. Mm-hmm. Everywhere that I went. you know, I'm active in the Scottish Rite and I see brothers there that head of past masters and they, I. Everyone asks the same question. You got your calendar, you got your calendar, but no one tells you, tells you what that means. Yeah. What am I supposed to put on this? Right. And so, you know, the master before me, he had his calendar in a booklet like what you would get from the Office Depot. You know, you have the, the calendar book that you, you just write in there, all of your events and things that you're planning to do. Um, other brothers may just have it as a list. And so I didn't really know what that calendar looked like. Mm-hmm. And that's what I reached out to Tyler Moka and said, what are you putting together? I just started building my own, but then instead of just building it, I said, let me just see what another master is doing so I can make sure that, okay, this is how I'm thinking about doing my calendar with categories for social events and lodge meetings and so forth. And it is, and just to get some insights. But I think that's one thing that would be helpful. I didn't attend one of the, the leadership, um, or training conferences. Okay. Um, so I didn't do that. I'm wondering maybe there, there was some guidance given Yeah. Uh, on how to build out that calendar. Mm-hmm. But I didn't. And so I just built it out the way that I would do for her. My day job. Sure. Um, and, and, and it worked I'm glad you brought that up because the leadership academy coming up in February used to be known as the Junior Wardens Conference and we've revamped it a bit. So the leadership won will be the equivalent of a Junior Wardens academy like we had before. Calendar planning, planning your year, learning the co, everything across the board in terms of getting into that elected station leadership two is open to anyone who has either been to the prior Junior Wardens conference, market calendars for February 13th and 14th in Wait Park This new version of the Leadership Academy will provide a wider spectrum of topics and important things to prioritize in. In planning. What you described in that is, is quite old school because back in the day in big air quotes, before all of this technology, an incoming master and wardens would have that calendar plan, that trestle board would be printed. There was no question about what was going to take place and when In that ensuing year, I still talk to brothers from lodges that are planning. As they go, the year starts, they decide, Hey, wouldn't it be great if we did this and let's try to execute it in a couple weeks. That's extremely difficult. As we both know, and this busy world, we all have so many different activities with family and other hobbies, other commitments, jobs. To try and say, Hey brothers, we're gonna do this community engagement event two weeks from now And then be disappointed that not many brothers or guests could show up. Well, you have to plan that way in advance, or at least have a save the date for what that date is going to be. Plan on a lodge event. On this day in July, in September of next year, we are going to do the following. I think there's a certain technique or set of tactics to, to manage a change in a plan. And so for me, for example, I set out a plan or calendar at the beginning of the year. The calendar wasn't just a series of events, but I also had initiatives and committees as part of that calendar communication. Um, and then halfway through the year I did a reset and sort of kind of where we are. And so I think it's similar to business. You have a quarterly business review, you have a mm-hmm. I just did my own review. Hey, where, where, where am I relative to the things that I said I was gonna do? And then I'm looking at the next half of the year saying, do I steal based on what's happening with my personal life and work? And do I have. The capacity to do all the things that I wanted to do for the second half of the year. And so what I did was I took my giant 11 by 17 calendar, chopped it in half, and then I created a fall winter calendar. And so with some truncated things and some adaptations, and then just communicated that out. And so now the brothers are holding me accountable to a new set of things or an adaptive set of things, but at least it's manageable and I know it can be done. And so if there's a last minute, we talked about timing and so doing things last minute. So one of the things I do, for example, for our, table lodge. I had it on the calendar to do an event on a different day, had more time allocated to do that. But I shifted it up after speaking to about seven brothers, um, and past masters. And we ended up settling on a date. So before I communicated anything, I just got on the phone. I'm thinking about doing a table lodge for our 160th on this day. Are you around? Will that work for you? And I got enough brothers just to say, yep, that will work for me to then put it in full speed motion in being able to fast track that and get it done. And so can I get enough brothers on board? Do we have enough guests to be able to make it out? Brothers that are in town in the area, bring in their spouses and so forth. And then I was able to pull it together and that's how I deal with a lot of things where I just get a critical number of brothers on board and I would be satisfied if it's just four that show up or three, but at least it's not me. But I know that those ones that do show up, they are there, they're gonna be committed. And then as long as I have that degree of buy-in, you know, just the minimum quorum. I push forward, um, with an aggressive plan. I'm glad you clarified too, that you didn't just make a calendar and put it out there, fire and forget mode. Halfway through, it was kind of a review of the first year, first half of the year, and then what do we want to accomplish in the second half? Some modifications, truncated this, adjusted that everyone was actively communicating, and you were working all of the, managing all the different layers from the east. What advice would you give an incoming master who's about to take the helm in the East for the first time? I would say create a vision and goals because that drives your decision making throughout the year and your prioritization throughout the year and the committees that you're, you're forming or your prioritizing. So set of vision, set some goals. Like for me it was recruit, reclaim, retain, um, and then actions wrapped around that. And so all the activities that we plan to do for the year, all the events, all the things that we're doing, map into those. And that's what I would advise is not to just create a calendar willy-nilly, um, but create a strategy about how you want to govern that year. And then in your calendar, be okay with. Having enough social events to where if brothers don't necessarily come out to the stated meetings, still engage them and invite them and encourage them to just, if they wanna, just block out all of the stated meetings and highlight on their calendar. Only the social events come to those. We just wanna see, you just want you to come out and participate. Different aspects of the lodge experience resonate differently with brothers and they may be pulled into a direction. Not all of it, not all the directions. You're right. Come, come to whatever appeals to you most. But we wanna see you here. We want you with us on this date if you're available. a question that comes up frequently. A topic discussed en lodges across the state. What does true brotherhood look like? Or feel like we are surrounded by guys at Lodge who throw around the word brotherhood all the time, but how many of them in a moment of crisis can provide reassurance? A sense that one is worthy of support or love? There's a challenge of opening up, and lots of men say there needs to be more room for men to open up about their struggles, challenges. Some think we should have that in lodge with our brothers, but a lot of guys struggle to receive perceived weakness and vulnerability from other men. It's basically saying, I want the world to accept my vulnerability, but also being uncomfortable receiving it from other people. How do we get beyond brotherhood being a buzzword or a platitude? I think that that sense of not feeling comfortable opening up in a lodge, is rooted in the realities of what men face when they're, when they are vulnerable, and you have maybe men around you that are not used to seeing other men be vulnerable. And so the onus is on how can folks be educated on how to receive and how to. Respond to people who may not take things the same way that you do. And so I think there, there's a lot of that where a lot of, you're not used to seeing that and you're not educated on that. And so that's one of the things of, of being in the lodge and being the masters, that you see men of all different personalities, um, uh, tastes, um, that, that, that respond to things in different ways. And so that a lot of that, what I learned overseas, working in different cultures culturally, people. Receive information and respond in very different ways. And, and men in the lodge are like that. And so not everyone has that experience and that skillset to be able to see someone that may be vulnerable and know how to lift them up. Um, and so I think we just need more examples of that and for brothers to see, and someone that's a learning process for me as well. And so I've, I've learned a lot of, a lot about empathy, um, just watching how brothers are treated in our own lodge. And so if a brother has a family member that passed away, uh, little niceties that we used to do back in the day, you know, passing a card around, no words are really spoken. You just, you know, this is what happened. Um, and the brother can handle that personally himself, but there's little. Things like that. Passing a card around, um, and signing and just giving condolences is not necessarily a major. Maybe a brother just had surgery and he's getting phone calls from all the brothers, you know, wishing him a speedy recovery. So there's things like that. You see those examples and then you want to emulate that. Is there room in the lodge experience to tackle heavy topics? Should we be considering a tiled lodge room, a safe place to delve into that as needed? Because we, we have this, this surface level concept of brotherhood, backslapping, jokey banter. We go to outer lodge, have some laughs and that's all good. That's a huge part of the experience. That's where a lot of friendships are forged. Are we taking enough time to get to know one another? Beyond the, the layers of, of pleasantries. Should we, should we go there? Some lodges are, are really trying to embark upon occasionally having a speaker, a lodge education session that really addresses the difficulties we all face. It's in life in general. Yeah. That, I mean that, that, that's an interesting question. I think the lodge tries to give enough tools and direction to self, correct. Right. And so I think a lot of it is, is that nature of where it's really internal, but there's also an aspect of. Following a guide, following your conductor. And so I think a lot of, you know, what we say is you have a big saying where you say that we don't make men anything. Right. And so there's that. I, I don't, I don't like the, we make good men better. We don't make anybody anything. We give them the tools. Right, right, right. And so, so one, you know, one part of that is, is giving them the tools and then we kinda step back. But I think there still is a need of a conductor. And does that mean like a mentor to you? What does that mean to you? It's, it's, it's some, so if you give someone the tools and you say you have everything you need now to build yourself to be the best version of yourself, and we step away and we leave him with those tools. Without some type of a guide. Right. And so for me, like I say, when I lead by example, I say, this is the the direction that we're gonna go in. I start moving in that direction, and then I lead people. They follow me. Then it gradually, I step back. And I think there's a sense in free masonry where we, we give people the, we, you have a guide up until a certain point. Then we expect you to just independently go out and become well-informed and educate yourself and learn these things. There needs to be a, a, a outside of custodians. I think we, that seems like a piece that's missing where some brothers need a guy, some brothers don't. Some brothers have that ambition, they have that curiosity to go out. But me just learning from traveling the world and being. Interacting with different brothers at different, not everyone has that same level of initiative to get off the couch and go and do things. And you have to embrace that. Not everyone is gonna think like you. So some brothers do need someone to kind of nudge them, guide them, pull them forward, then let them self sustain. And so that, that's where I have a slight difference of opinion on we give you the tools and then you, it's up to you to make them. But sometimes some brothers do need more than just to be handed a box of working tools. that's a really, really good point that we can't just do the equivalent of, okay, fly little birdie. My work is done now. Or it kind of feels that way. After we raise a new class, brothers become Master masons. We congratulate them. Even though we say it all the time, this is not a finish line. This is the beginning of the whole rest of the journey. But then am I doing it? Are you who, who among us is going to be the one that has that check-in, that has that mentor mentee relationship that is ensuring that if they have questions or if they need a little guidance or an ear or, or something that, isn't that just the case of in this life that we all assume, I assume you're doing it. You assume the next guy's doing it. But there does need to be that next step of the experience to ensure open communication and guiding that new Master Mason, regardless of his age, he's still new to this organization and may not know if he can ask questions or who he should ask them to, which is always plays back to the original first contact that brother had at the lodge. Who did he resonate with? Did, did we assign him to a mentor that turned out to be a little more than a memorization coach? Or who would be, the best person to guide him on that journey because it should be an infinite journey? Yeah, I mean there, it may seem like a small aspect to some, especially those that are not Freemasons, but I go back to this, it it, something that really resonated with me is this notion of following your conductor and fearing no danger. And I went through that two times because initially I was raised as a Prince Hall Mason, and then I went through the process all over again from scratch under the Grand Lodge of Minnesota. And that notion of following a conductor and fearing no danger, like the first time I went through that, I was a 19-year-old kid and there was a lot of fear. But I was, I, I was comforted in that and being, is that still you remember that? Is that what I still remember it. And, and, and it's a very vulnerable state. And I, and that's what I say is in leadership, you have to, uh, you have to have a degree of empathy and let people trust your guidance that you will not steer them wrong. That you have their best interests in, in, in heart. And that's how I've been able to lead people all around the world, is really having that degree of almost self-sacrifice. I told people, whether I'm in Northern Iraq working with teams there, or in Turkey or in Qatar, I said, my goal is to put myself out of a job. I want to give you guys enough independence to be able to lead yourselves and for me to be put out of a job. I want to, this is not my country. This is your country. Right. And I build that sense of empathy and, and, and leadership where they can follow their conductor and fear that I'm not gonna steer them wrong or cause them danger. That's that small act that we do. Um, I think that's, there's something in there about that vulnerability is going back to that. It's like going back to your childhood, um, and being able to see your lodge or the master or the, the officers or your being, being able to be vulnerable in that and follow their advice because they may be stronger than you and how, and guide you into how you can navigate a certain situation that you may be facing. Right? And so it's still a concept of like following a conductor and fearing no danger. It's like fearing that they're not gonna judge me, they're not gonna harm me, they're not gonna embarrass me. Um, and I don't feel danger in being vulnerable at this time. So it's still getting back to something that we're familiar with, but thinking about it in a different context, this topic comes up time and again. Because in the world there are thousands and thousands of men of all ages, young and even a little older, that are spending money on life. Coaches on AI generated, help me navigate my way through life. Virtual friends and assistance. We talk about the loneliness crisis a lot. It's a real thing, the depression, uncertainty on how to navigate one's career. We have thousands and thousands of men in this world that are seeking everything we've described today. Guidance, mentor, mentee, life advice, knowing someone has my back. The reality is that young people, especially are hungry for purpose. So where does the Masonic Lodge experience? Fit into this opportunity. We talk about the experience a lot. We should be doing more than just making Masons in a vacuum and saying, our work here is done. What are we doing to foster personal development, personal growth, building community, real true friendship. So I'll ask you, where, where, where do you think the lodge experience fits into that opportunity? When it, we talk about purpose and filling that void for people, that approach for, for men that approach the Westgate. I think that young people today are surrounded by opportunity. Much more opportunity than, than. What I had growing up in Texas, um, as, as a, as a young kid hotheaded, um, at some times, but still just trying to navigate life. But, but I do think that with all the noise and all the distractions that we have, what, what they really lack is, is stillness. You know, the world is a loud place. Every platform that you're on, when you're online, on a screen, every feed, every conversation, it's someone trying to tell you what to be, who to do, you know what to do and, and what to believe. Um, and things are changing. It's, it's, it's, the world is, is moving fast. But I think that in order to really find your purpose, you know, what you need is, is silence. for me, I think that's something, you know, it, it, it takes silence in order to, to, in order to discover that purpose and silence, how, tell us more. with so much noise that's surrounding you every day, so many distractions, there's not really time to hear that inner voice. And for me, when I, when I, I drive 90 minutes, from St. Peter to Minneapolis just to sit in silence on the sidelines and watch certain lessons and certain things that I can apply and take away. You mean Scottish right? Scottish right. Yeah. So I, I, I drive from St. Peter to Minneapolis for about 90 minutes just to sit on the sidelines in silence, because that silence allows me time to reflect. And sometimes I zone out because it's something I've seen before. But there are lessons that are being espoused, let's say, um, that apply to a lot of aspects of my day-to-day life and for me to see. And reflect on what I've done and what that means for my future, for my family. Those, all those lessons come when I'm sitting in silence and I'm taking in a lot of information without speaking. But that's, the Masonic fraternity gives you that ability to sit in silence and just absorb information, process it, have some introspection, and see how it applies to you and your life. And, and, and I can, every time I see it, every time I witness it, every time I come up and, and folks ask me, why, why do you come all the way from Mankato? Um, and I have a busy schedule, but this is the, the, that stillness that I get. From sitting there on the sidelines, you know, I could participate in the degree work, but I get so much more out of it by watching those, um, that degree work being done at such a high caliber and high degree that it's done there at the Minneapolis Valley and that that's something that it's worth me driving and spending time, on the road from Mankato to, to watch that. Is it a mental reset? It is, it is because in my world, I move extremely fast in the tech world and I have pitch decks and I'm doing so many different things. I have investors and, and customers, and I'm wearing a lot of different hats in the tech world, and I'm moving at warp speed. But at those moments, there's no phone, there's no distractions, and I get to sit there in silence and really reflect Men who are also sitting in silence and each one of us are looking, we're all looking at the same thing, but experiencing something different. And that's what's unique about it. Earlier I mentioned your line that you wrote about progressing quickly and burning out just as fast. How does one avoid that outcome? In Freemasonry? It's easy to overextend or to agree to one more committee, to one more part. How do you do that? I didn't learn that until I was much older, because now I'm very careful with how I manage my time. And when I was young, I was very zealous and very curious and so I progressed. And so as soon as I was raised to the sublime, the degree of Master Mason and I, men immediately went through. The York Right. Scottish rights. Right. And I just wanted to, and I built them my own Masonic library. I was like a 21-year-old kid with a Masonic library. Wow. Um, before I left the US and, and I, I, what you don't really learn is, is that as you advance into the all, to all these degrees, there's higher standards for your behavior, how you govern yourself and how you move in the world. It's just more, more morals, ethics, lessons that you're learning on how you should live. And so I really had a high standard as a Mason that I held myself to. And I I didn't feel that the folks around me at the time had that same standard. And that was part of what burnt me out, was I was moving so fast and I was memorizing so much, um, floor work, degree work, and I was committed to such a high standard, almost a. You know, purist in terms of freemasonry and at the age of 21. Yeah. And, and that just burned me out because I was, I didn't, I didn't like college fraternities and I was older for my age. I love listening to blues. I love listening to, I'm a very conservative guy. And so that just really turned me, you know, away from the craft for over 15 years. Um, and then at a much older time when I reconnected with Freemasonry, I now had all this life experience around the world. I have a family and I've, it meant a lot more to me and it hit different than it did when I was 19 years old. Um, you know, going through that. And that's, that's, it's, it's a huge difference. And so a young Mason, I wouldn't advise him to do what I did. I would encourage brothers to really zoom in, hone in on. That Blue Lodge hole on the Master Mason degree. There's so much symbolism there. There's like the most powerful symbol, um, for me in the Blue Lodge is that beehive and I have it on my briefcase. Um, but there's so many lessons in, in, in, in the Blue Lodge that you can iterate on and just learn to start applying those things in, in, in, in life before looking at the other, appendant bodies and the Scottish Rite is, is one where if you're curious, like you go in there too soon, it's gonna send you a lot, in a lot of different directions. It's the the philosophical side of, of, of things. So that, that's something I would advise is not to move too fast in, in going through the other bodies. Take your time. They'll always be there. Exactly. If you knew you couldn't fail, what would you wanna do? Wow. That's, that's such a, what's the first thing that came to mind? That's a hard question for me to answer because I really don't give a lot of thought to failing. My brain is just now wired that way to really give deep thought to failing at something and then how I would turn it around because I've been given crazy, crazy deadlines and schedules and projects, you know, around the world. And, and like I say, for me to be able to put on an award ceremony in two months, three months notice is nothing compared to situations where the president of a country says, take your team off of this and put them on this and deliver it in 30 days. You know, and we have to somehow organize around that and make it happen. yeah, I, I approach failure and a a lot different, I guess. okay. The failure aside, you, you, you're assured of victory. something that I, I recently discovered, and this, this is a Masonic related response, I mentioned that I left Freemasonry for over 15 years and I was in Texas and, and I've noticed on Facebook that some of the brothers that I was around at that time, um, are visiting other lodges and so forth. And these are Prince Hall Masons. Um, at a high level from my side, it doesn't look like a whole lot has changed over that long span of time that I left Texas. And so lodges are still visiting each other. Doing some sort of kind of informal niceties in terms of recognition. If I could do something that would not fail, I would find a way to unify the fraternity across the country so that you don't have kind of separate bodies, factions and so forth. I know it's a bit controversial, but I would find if there's a way to make that work I still see this kind of separate separation, which shouldn't really exist there, um, in, in, in, in my honest opinion. What do you wish would become fashionable again? Top hats. I would say. Top hats, yeah. yeah, I'm, I'm big on hats and, you know, when you look at older videos, a gentleman, you know, always walked outta the house with a hat on, um, with his hat covered. And so that's something that's, do you mean top hat specifically or just a fedora? A fedora. A fedora, yeah. We blame John F. Kennedy. Wasn't he the one that did not wear a hat to his inauguration and the hat industry suffered for the rest of time? Yeah, What's the most difficult thing you've ever done? Say, raising two strong boys. So I have an 11-year-old. I, it's, I wouldn't say that I've done, it's what I'm doing in, in the process of, in the process of, yeah, I have an 11-year-old and a 4-year-old. Um, and when you raise kids to be strong, it's a double-edged sword because there is some course correction that needs to happen, and you get to a point where you kind of think you're, they're set, then they find a new set of problems, a new set of course correction that needs to happen. And I think that's the hardest thing is, is, and it, it's very fulfilling because like I, I get to sit in my home office and smile sometimes with the decisions that they're making, even the 4-year-old, um, that course correction constantly navigating and nudging them back onto the straight path when they start to stray. And sometimes letting them go a little bit because they need to experience things. But that's a, that, that, that's been a challenge, um, navigating that. But it's also very rewarding. And it's, it's the other side of, let's say I. I get a lot of fulfillment in therapy from sidelining at the Scottish Rite. Um, but also spending time fishing with my boys and guiding them on how to be strong, independent, how to treat people, you know, fairly and so forth. And, and my youngest, the 4-year-old, uh, he loves Freemasonry. Does he really? He does. He, he, he's always battling with his brother to play the lodge song. So I have a Spotify playlist, and it just so happened that some lodge, some Masonic songs are in there and he heard them by accident and he always wants to listen to these songs about going to the lodge, about meeting on the level. So just day before yesterday, my 11-year-old, he's in the front seat of the car. One of those songs comes on and his baby brother's in the back seat saying, let it play, let it play. And, and, and the song is about meeting on the level. And the oldest is asking me, what, what does that mean? What is a level? And I explain to him what it means. You know, treating people fairly regardless of their station in life and so forth. And so the song mentions that. Are you living it? Are you meeting the brother if his pants are a little worn, if his jacket is a little, the song mentions all these things. And so I explained to him what the level means. and the youngest, he doesn't know. He just loves the song and he knows it's talking about nice things about the lodge. And so, it's interesting to see that them getting acquainted with the fraternity at such a young age. And they've gone with me to, I'm a Hoho Shriner and so I drive one of the little red cars in the parade and I take them to a lot of the parades with me. And so they know all the Shriners and when they see the cars and you know, I took my car to his daycare, uh, two weeks ago. Oh, fun. And because he's been telling all of his friends that his dad drives the little red car and they didn't know what he was talking about. And then when I showed up with the car, oh, they were so excited. Um, and so that was a highlight for him is to have his dad come with the FEZs and with the red car, to his daycare. Derek Fountain, you're fantastic and I can't wait to sit down with you again. Thank you for having me read. It's been a long time coming.